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[Heroes of the Storm 2.0] FUCK YEAH, SNAKE EYES INC

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Posts

  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles But we decide which is right and which is an illusion.Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    Too bad Blizzard doesn't talk about the HotS financials in the quarterly reports. I think it would be fascinating to see how the HotS revenue stream changes (if it does) after 2.0. On one hand, it might drop now that people won't just be able to plunk down an impulsive $10 to buy a skin they really like and will be put off by the more limited options of gems and paying for chests. On the other hand, maybe the chest RNG-fest will appeal to enough players' gambling addictions that it'll pull in more money than the old system.

    I really don't get why they couldn't do both. Implement all the other 2.0 changes, but leave the option to directly buy specific skins and cosmetics with real money (or with gems which are bought with real money).

    If you're curious about my icon; it's an update of the early Lego Castle theme's "Black Falcons" faction.
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  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    Too bad Blizzard doesn't talk about the HotS financials in the quarterly reports. I think it would be fascinating to see how the HotS revenue stream changes (if it does) after 2.0. On one hand, it might drop now that people won't just be able to plunk down an impulsive $10 to buy a skin they really like and will be put off by the more limited options of gems and paying for chests. On the other hand, maybe the chest RNG-fest will appeal to enough players' gambling addictions that it'll pull in more money than the old system.

    I really don't get why they couldn't do both. Implement all the other 2.0 changes, but leave the option to directly buy specific skins and cosmetics with real money (or with gems which are bought with real money).

    Because then you don't make any money from loot boxes?

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    Too bad Blizzard doesn't talk about the HotS financials in the quarterly reports. I think it would be fascinating to see how the HotS revenue stream changes (if it does) after 2.0. On one hand, it might drop now that people won't just be able to plunk down an impulsive $10 to buy a skin they really like and will be put off by the more limited options of gems and paying for chests. On the other hand, maybe the chest RNG-fest will appeal to enough players' gambling addictions that it'll pull in more money than the old system.

    I really don't get why they couldn't do both. Implement all the other 2.0 changes, but leave the option to directly buy specific skins and cosmetics with real money (or with gems which are bought with real money).

    Because then you don't make any money from loot boxes?

    Maybe if the Loot Boxes overall gave you cheaper/discounted stuff, but with the tradeoff it was random what you'd get, then that would be possibly profitable?

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  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles But we decide which is right and which is an illusion.Registered User regular
    Well, I mean, loot boxes aren't $10, right? Boxes have the gambler's appeal of the chance at big wins (in this case, great value for little cost), while direct purchasing is paying more but getting a guaranteed result.

    If you're curious about my icon; it's an update of the early Lego Castle theme's "Black Falcons" faction.
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  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    Well, I mean, loot boxes aren't $10, right? Boxes have the gambler's appeal of the chance at big wins (in this case, great value for little cost), while direct purchasing is paying more but getting a guaranteed result.

    loot boxes aren't $10, but you have to pay more than $10 on average to get anything good from them

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
    Smrtnik
  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    edited April 2017
    Yeah they reason they don't do it is sadly because then no one would buy loot boxes. Because you are literally buying them for skins. No one cares about sprays or emojis or whatever. Maaaaybe new heroes, but you can buy those with gold or gems already.

    I guess my only hope is that the shard economy is not garbage like the gold one is in Overwatch. Especially since I don't feel like the skin types are comparable - in Overwatch, you pretty much have legendary skins (i.e. the "good" skins), or recolors of the default skins. There isn't much in between. But HotS will have a ton of tints for every skin, with each separated out now... so there might be multiple tints you like for a single skin... I suppose the one solace is that (hopefully still) you can buy new skins flat out for money. Unlike Overwatch where you have to roll loot box after loot box for in particular, holiday skins.

    Warlock82 on
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    Too bad Blizzard doesn't talk about the HotS financials in the quarterly reports. I think it would be fascinating to see how the HotS revenue stream changes (if it does) after 2.0. On one hand, it might drop now that people won't just be able to plunk down an impulsive $10 to buy a skin they really like and will be put off by the more limited options of gems and paying for chests. On the other hand, maybe the chest RNG-fest will appeal to enough players' gambling addictions that it'll pull in more money than the old system.

    I really don't get why they couldn't do both. Implement all the other 2.0 changes, but leave the option to directly buy specific skins and cosmetics with real money (or with gems which are bought with real money).

    Because this directs people towards your gambling money-maker better.

    forty
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Warlock82 wrote: »
    Yeah they reason they don't do it is sadly because then no one would buy loot boxes. Because you are literally buying them for skins. No one cares about sprays or emojis or whatever. Maaaaybe new heroes, but you can buy those with gold or gems already.

    I guess my only hope is that the shard economy is not garbage like the gold one is in Overwatch. Especially since I don't feel like the skin types are comparable - in Overwatch, you pretty much have legendary skins (i.e. the "good" skins), or recolors of the default skins. There isn't much in between. But HotS will have a ton of tints for every skin, with each separated out now... so there might be multiple tints you like for a single skin... I suppose the one solace is that (hopefully still) you can buy new skins flat out for money. Unlike Overwatch where you have to roll loot box after loot box for in particular, holiday skins.

    They actually answered this sorta.

    Essentially anything new that's released goes into the Featured tab and so can be bought with real money. Then after X amount of time, it leaves the Featured tab and now it can only be bought with shards or by gambling on loot chests. Sale items rotate back into the Featured tab and so can be bought with real money again.

    So basically exactly what we all feared on being able to buy items at any time but at least you can always buy them, probably at a discount, when they are first released.

    So a kick to the taint, but with a soft-toed shoe at least.

    Lord_Asmodeus
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Played Tracer tonight for the first time. She's, um...different?

    So quick and nimble, but I'm unsure how to play her properly. Am I supposed to focus on just melee or do a lot of diving in to melee then E out? My entire first game I hardly touched the E key. And her Ult is wacky too.

    Probably need to watch some videos on key strats for her.

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  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    If you're not using E a reasonable amount you're probably not going ham enough on tracer. Should position yourself extremely aggressively and when they turn to come for you, E and you're gone.

    So finished putting all my hero levels into the thing, and I'm at like 590. I'm assuming that sacrificing a level 1 and some easy levels here and there is probably worth another legendary chest, but have to make that call soon so i can get the games in.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Played Tracer tonight for the first time. She's, um...different?

    So quick and nimble, but I'm unsure how to play her properly. Am I supposed to focus on just melee or do a lot of diving in to melee then E out? My entire first game I hardly touched the E key. And her Ult is wacky too.

    Probably need to watch some videos on key strats for her.

    Tracer is basically a dive hero. Go in hard, Melee and AA and then either stay on target and kill them if whatever part of the enemy team there can't threaten you or run away if you can.

    The big idea here is you want to be building your Ult up as fast as possible which means meleeing as often as you can.

    When you have a Pulse Bomb ready, it's basically same thing. Dive in, Melee, attack, drop the Ult and hopefully secure the kill. And then run.

  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Played Tracer tonight for the first time. She's, um...different?

    So quick and nimble, but I'm unsure how to play her properly. Am I supposed to focus on just melee or do a lot of diving in to melee then E out? My entire first game I hardly touched the E key. And her Ult is wacky too.

    Probably need to watch some videos on key strats for her.

    Learn who is safe to AA forever and who you can't get near ever (or until they use certain skillshots). Focus on building your Ult charge, and then the next time you see someone who is low, dive into them, drop R->W, then E out.

    Tracer's entire job is to harass and then finish kills. You do not need to be top damage, but you definitely need to be top kills.

    For micro, I'd recommend going into Try mode, turning off cooldowns, and then practicing the following:

    1) Get used to her AA move. There's a skill to being able to actively target and retarget while moving. You will have to weave in and out of AA range for priority targets constantly. If you are not constantly moving around, flanking, and retargeting to the squishiest target when possible, you might as well be playing Tychus or Raynor instead (because they can just stand and shoot the tank, too, and do a better job of it). Don't just burn Q's because you can. Learn how to get around without using a Q first, and save them for things like avoiding Arcane Orbs or repositioning to get a safe angle on a backline healer.

    2) Learn her dive combo. Start with R->W->E. Once you get used to that, move on to Q->R->W->E. Then add more Q's (you can have up to 4 in some builds) until it becomes second nature. Your first order of business is to build the muscle memory that lets you hit the right buttons in the right order. If you can't do that, it really doesn't matter whether or not you can get there because you will likely not be able to confirm the kill and die in the process.

    3) Learn the distance that you can cover with your Q's in a sequence. That's your max effective range to burst someone down if they are low.

    4) Practice aiming your R. This is a lot harder to do than you might think in the middle of a hectic fight with a lot of bodies. It is especially hard in the middle of trying to pull off the full Q->R->W->E combo. Anyone can just stand next to the target dummy and bomb it. Being able to dive in from a full screen away and do it in under a second is where Tracer shines and becomes an oppressive force of nature.

    DibbyH3Knuckles
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    @shryke, I'm worried there may be either an error in your spreadsheet or in the data we're working from.

    In your spreadsheet, level 20 1.0 translates to level 58 2.0, but everything I've seen from a Blizzard source says level 20 converts to level 55 in 2.0.

    I know but it's what all the XP curves for the PTR I have say. If someone can find a another source I can compare them.

    forty
  • dav3ybdav3yb Registered User regular
    edited April 2017
    ForceVoid wrote: »
    I love Alarak

    So does Alarak!

    dav3yb on
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  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited April 2017
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Played Tracer tonight for the first time. She's, um...different?

    So quick and nimble, but I'm unsure how to play her properly. Am I supposed to focus on just melee or do a lot of diving in to melee then E out? My entire first game I hardly touched the E key. And her Ult is wacky too.

    Probably need to watch some videos on key strats for her.

    Learn who is safe to AA forever and who you can't get near ever (or until they use certain skillshots). Focus on building your Ult charge, and then the next time you see someone who is low, dive into them, drop R->W, then E out.

    Tracer's entire job is to harass and then finish kills. You do not need to be top damage, but you definitely need to be top kills.

    For micro, I'd recommend going into Try mode, turning off cooldowns, and then practicing the following:

    1) Get used to her AA move. There's a skill to being able to actively target and retarget while moving. You will have to weave in and out of AA range for priority targets constantly. If you are not constantly moving around, flanking, and retargeting to the squishiest target when possible, you might as well be playing Tychus or Raynor instead (because they can just stand and shoot the tank, too, and do a better job of it). Don't just burn Q's because you can. Learn how to get around without using a Q first, and save them for things like avoiding Arcane Orbs or repositioning to get a safe angle on a backline healer.

    2) Learn her dive combo. Start with R->W->E. Once you get used to that, move on to Q->R->W->E. Then add more Q's (you can have up to 4 in some builds) until it becomes second nature. Your first order of business is to build the muscle memory that lets you hit the right buttons in the right order. If you can't do that, it really doesn't matter whether or not you can get there because you will likely not be able to confirm the kill and die in the process.

    3) Learn the distance that you can cover with your Q's in a sequence. That's your max effective range to burst someone down if they are low.

    4) Practice aiming your R. This is a lot harder to do than you might think in the middle of a hectic fight with a lot of bodies. It is especially hard in the middle of trying to pull off the full Q->R->W->E combo. Anyone can just stand next to the target dummy and bomb it. Being able to dive in from a full screen away and do it in under a second is where Tracer shines and becomes an oppressive force of nature.

    Adding on to this:

    5) Be very, very careful with Q usage. It's a gap closer and good for chasing/diving, yes, but it's also your only escape. If you burn Blinks unnecessarily, you're dead in the water. As you start playing Tracer, you might be inclined to use Blink all the time, always. Refrain. A lot of the time you don't actually even need to use it. Or, if you do, you only need to burn one. The only time you should be chaining multiple Blinks together is if you're diving in for the combo-kill or if you're escaping.

    6) Similarly, if you have Q on Quick Cast (you absolutely should turn it on for Blink), be careful about mashing Q. If you're mashing you will end up Blinking forward and then Blinking backward again. You only need to tap it once; get used to doing this. It's a little weird cause for literally almost every Hero you're used to spamming/mashing a key, especially if it's coming off cooldown or you're running into range of them. But there's no cooldown in between Blink charges. Be careful here.

    7) Related to what Antaeus wrote about #1, I find it's easiest to hold down RMB instead of spamclicking it for movement. Tracer can AA while moving, you don't need to stutterstep, you just need to be locked on to the right target. Right click your target, then hold down RMB and KEEP MOVIN'. This is what works for me, anyway, you might find otherwise. This also prevents any accidental right clicks that may happen if you were spamclicking it for movement.

    8) Recall is your friend, but it can also be your worst enemy. It teleports you back to where you were 3 seconds ago, which is generally your emergency GTFO button.... but it does nothing if 3 seconds ago was where you are right now. Keep that in mind.

    9) Speaking of Recall, don't use it all willynilly. Don't ever burn all your Blinks+Melee+Recall out on a Hero if it's not going to kill them. Because at that point, you just wasted several long cooldowns to... do a bit of damage to them that they can heal up. Only burn all your shit if you have Ult up and it's going to kill, otherwise you just wasted resources to poke at them.

    10 Melee is one of her strongest abilities. It does a large amount of damage and generates a decent chunk of Ult charge. Use that shit! It's got a bit of a larger range than you might expect (even larger with the 13 talent).

    11) Stuns and lockdown will be the death of you. Tracer is super squishy and if she eats a stun she's probably dead. Steer clear and stay away from Stun Heroes, wait to go in until they've used their stuns.



    And finally, here's the build I use: http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/tracer#neJ0

    At level 1 I generally go Tracer Rounds. It's great for sticking on targets, keeping them revealed, even through bushes (this is important!). It's good even vs non-stealth Heroes. Very nice general pick. HOWEVER, if I'm going to pick, say, Quantum Spike at 10, Pulse Strike is good too because it helps generate more Ult charge when not taking Pulse Rounds at 10 (BOY THESE NAMES ARE SIMILAR HUH).

    Level 4 is a choice. Just for starting out, I'd recommend Parting Gift or Health Pack. Health Pack gives you super good lane sustain, will make it so you don't need to back as often. Parting Gift changes up your playstyle quite a bit, it turns Recall into a burst ability. You use it in conjunction with your Ult combo, right? R>W>E. But, with this, you want to make sure you hit E RIGHT on top of them, because otherwise those Parting Gift bombs ain't gonna hit. It's pretty risky but as you get used to it, it adds a lot to your burst combo. There is also Untouchable here... but for now I'd recommend to stay away from that. It requires a solid mastery of Tracer, because you need to not die in order to gain value from it.

    At level 7, Jumper is a safe go-to. The 4th extra Blink charge gives you a lot more freedom with how you can use Blink. Spatial Echo's not bad as well, you gain 2 Blink Charges after a takedown. But for now I'd start with Jumper.

    Level 10 is sort of a playstyle/preference thing, they're all viable. But, I think Quantum Spike and Pulse Rounds are better than Sticky Bomb in most cases. Quantum Spike is great because it pretty much ensures your target WILL die from your Ult. Pulse Rounds lets you get more uptime on your Ult. So, up to you here. I'd recommend Pulse Rounds starting out, because it also makes landing your R a lot easier, as it increases the range.

    At level 13 I pretty much always go Bullet Spray. It increases the range of Melee and turns it into an aoe, which hey guess what, you have actual wave clear now! It's solid. Leeching Rounds is also very good, but I value the waveclear much much more, personally.

    At 16, just go Sleight of Hand. It increases your DPS without you needing to do anything else. The other two are, yknow, okay, but they require such fiddly amounts of micro that they're not worth it.

    At 20, I grab Total Recall. This means Recall heals you for any damage you took in the past 3 seconds, at the expense of a longer cooldown. If for whatever reason you don't need it? The other two options ain't bad either.

    Good luck man!

    Dibby on
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  • RoeRoe Always to the East Registered User regular
    edited April 2017
    Bought Cassia today. Took a good chunk of gold too, 15,000 to be exact.

    Probably the funnest ranged class I've played in the game. I'd buy her if you were on the fence, shes really good against melee and sometimes squishy ranged.

    Her impale-like attack is very reminiscent of Tyreals judgement charge, which happens to be one of my favorite attacks in the game.

    She doesn't have a great escape ability, but makes up for it with her melee avoidance when running. She is not the funnest at retreating with low health, unless you have the slow attack, which is at mid ranged character levels.

    Overall, well worth the gold.

    Roe on
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  • morgan_cokemorgan_coke Registered User regular
    So, some thoughts on Cassia buffs to get her out of dumpster tier.

    First, she really needs a change to her trait. The armor/move speed/lifegain need to stay up for a little while after she stops moving, say 1s? You just can't stutter step successfully against AA'ers when they're hitting you full power a fair amount of the time because of it. I got absolutely dumpstered by a Tracer last night because I'd take damage every time I stopped moving to AA or throw a Q, and forget E ever hitting. The long delay on W also meant it never really hit. A hero that's whole thing is reducing AA damage and stutter stepping shouldn't get dumpstered by Tracer, ever, because she's kind of supposed to be a counter to her by kit?

    Her Quest talents at 1 and 4 need to include some kind of passive bonus and lower totals on the completion numbers. Right now they take forever to complete and mean you spend most of the game without level 1 and 4 talents. Ring of the Leech needs to heal a small amount on AA's and then a larger amount when hitting Blinded targets, it's a trash talent right now considering your blind has a 15s CD.

    The CD on her blind is way too long. Maybe shorted the duration and cut the CD in half? She has a lot of talents that trigger on opponents being blinded, but you can't blind people often enough to rely on/use them without help.

    Her 16 and 20 talents need some love. Titan's Revenge is basically just a range increase because so few heroes have Armor (Arthas is the only one I can really think of with Physical Armor baseline). She has a talent at 16 that does extra damage on disabling effects.. but she doesn't have any way to disable people and trigger it.

    She needs more health, much like Superstition has shown us, the vast majority of the damage you take in this game is ability, and her tiny health pool and short AA range mean she gets blown TFU pretty regularly.

    I mean, she kicks out damage pretty good, but her short AA range means she's GOT to be up by the frontline, and she just doesn't have the health or DR for that, and since most squishies are ability based damage, she can't really fight them either, and her trait going away every time she attacks or uses an ability means she also can't actually counter mobile AAers like Greymane, Varian, or Tracer, which kind of seems like the entire point for her existing.

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Fan had a lot of success playing Cassia like Jaina - punish them if they try to get close or if your tank gets a pick, but otherwise be content to just spam Q's for poke damage. Her AA+Blind is really bursty, so you shouldn't feel the need to get attacks in if it isn't safe and they aren't being buffed by her trait. She is pretty much in perma-block mode if you are walking around, so even if all you're doing is soaking Raynor AA's and not doing damage that is a ton of value in terms of team trade.

  • finnithfinnith ... TorontoRegistered User regular
    Is it possible she'll get play against AA carries like zul, valla and GM? Might even be good against hammer with valk and her trait.

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  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    So, some thoughts on Cassia buffs to get her out of dumpster tier.

    First, she really needs a change to her trait. The armor/move speed/lifegain need to stay up for a little while after she stops moving, say 1s? You just can't stutter step successfully against AA'ers when they're hitting you full power a fair amount of the time because of it. I got absolutely dumpstered by a Tracer last night because I'd take damage every time I stopped moving to AA or throw a Q, and forget E ever hitting. The long delay on W also meant it never really hit. A hero that's whole thing is reducing AA damage and stutter stepping shouldn't get dumpstered by Tracer, ever, because she's kind of supposed to be a counter to her by kit?

    Her Quest talents at 1 and 4 need to include some kind of passive bonus and lower totals on the completion numbers. Right now they take forever to complete and mean you spend most of the game without level 1 and 4 talents. Ring of the Leech needs to heal a small amount on AA's and then a larger amount when hitting Blinded targets, it's a trash talent right now considering your blind has a 15s CD.

    The CD on her blind is way too long. Maybe shorted the duration and cut the CD in half? She has a lot of talents that trigger on opponents being blinded, but you can't blind people often enough to rely on/use them without help.

    Her 16 and 20 talents need some love. Titan's Revenge is basically just a range increase because so few heroes have Armor (Arthas is the only one I can really think of with Physical Armor baseline). She has a talent at 16 that does extra damage on disabling effects.. but she doesn't have any way to disable people and trigger it.


    She needs more health, much like Superstition has shown us, the vast majority of the damage you take in this game is ability, and her tiny health pool and short AA range mean she gets blown TFU pretty regularly.

    I mean, she kicks out damage pretty good, but her short AA range means she's GOT to be up by the frontline, and she just doesn't have the health or DR for that, and since most squishies are ability based damage, she can't really fight them either, and her trait going away every time she attacks or uses an ability means she also can't actually counter mobile AAers like Greymane, Varian, or Tracer, which kind of seems like the entire point for her existing.

    Ironically, Johanna is the other main physical tank right now (and technically ETC has just sort of joined that boat), but if you're playing Cassia you probably want Johanna on your team, not the other. :P
    finnith wrote: »
    Is it possible she'll get play against AA carries like zul, valla and GM? Might even be good against hammer with valk and her trait.

    I feel like walking Cassia into Zul is a fairly dangerous proposition ...

  • finnithfinnith ... TorontoRegistered User regular
    Haven't played her yet, is the blind/stutterstepping during his aa insufficient to win a trade?

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  • Zombie HeroZombie Hero Registered User regular
    I don't know how you time it so you are moving whenever zul'jin axes you and have time to fire back between volleys. That takes micro far beyond my level.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    So ETC took a huge hit with the latest patch. He's down like almost 10% winrate.

    Turns out removing a ton of his health and damage and then replacing it with armor that doesn't have a 100% uptime and requires him to spam abilities even when they aren't needed is a stupid thing to do if you don't want the hero to suck.

    Dibbyforty
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    So ETC took a huge hit with the latest patch. He's down like almost 10% winrate.

    Turns out removing a ton of his health and damage and then replacing it with armor that doesn't have a 100% uptime and requires him to spam abilities even when they aren't needed is a stupid thing to do if you don't want the hero to suck.

    Where are you getting the winrate change? I just briefly browsed Hotslogs, doesn't seem that extreme? Looks like he's down a few % points, but still very close to 50%?

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    So ETC took a huge hit with the latest patch. He's down like almost 10% winrate.

    Turns out removing a ton of his health and damage and then replacing it with armor that doesn't have a 100% uptime and requires him to spam abilities even when they aren't needed is a stupid thing to do if you don't want the hero to suck.

    Where are you getting the winrate change? I just briefly browsed Hotslogs, doesn't seem that extreme? Looks like he's down a few % points, but still very close to 50%?

    Restrict to current build only. It's down more then 9%.

    kimemorgan_cokeDibby
  • morgan_cokemorgan_coke Registered User regular
    finnith wrote: »
    Haven't played her yet, is the blind/stutterstepping during his aa insufficient to win a trade?

    Yes. Massively so. Honestly I feel like if they just made her trait last even like, 1s past the movement stop it would be enough to fix like, 80% of her issues. The idea is solid, but in practice it's impossible.

    The only, limited success I've had with her is doing wave clear, and mercing, and then in teamfights using Q only. Which is pretty much counter to her design philosophy. She's not supposed to be an ability mage with only one ability.

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  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    He was too good at everything, but now he's probably too bad at everything.

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  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    finnith wrote: »
    Haven't played her yet, is the blind/stutterstepping during his aa insufficient to win a trade?

    Yes. Massively so. Honestly I feel like if they just made her trait last even like, 1s past the movement stop it would be enough to fix like, 80% of her issues. The idea is solid, but in practice it's impossible.

    The only, limited success I've had with her is doing wave clear, and mercing, and then in teamfights using Q only. Which is pretty much counter to her design philosophy. She's not supposed to be an ability mage with only one ability.

    This feels like it directly contradicts what other people have said here earlier? Someone mentioned that she could take pretty much any AA opponent?

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  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    guys i cannot BELIEVE i have never tried cloak of shadows on valeera before

    it's so fucking good, wtf

    selfcleanse out of xul/malf/arthas roots, pop it before apoc or ring of frost, cleanse off kael/lunara/xul/gul'dan DoTs

    what the hellllll it's fucking great

    only a 15 second cooldown!!

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  • morgan_cokemorgan_coke Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    finnith wrote: »
    Haven't played her yet, is the blind/stutterstepping during his aa insufficient to win a trade?

    Yes. Massively so. Honestly I feel like if they just made her trait last even like, 1s past the movement stop it would be enough to fix like, 80% of her issues. The idea is solid, but in practice it's impossible.

    The only, limited success I've had with her is doing wave clear, and mercing, and then in teamfights using Q only. Which is pretty much counter to her design philosophy. She's not supposed to be an ability mage with only one ability.

    This feels like it directly contradicts what other people have said here earlier? Someone mentioned that she could take pretty much any AA opponent?

    I don't know who those people were or what was going on, but you cannot AA any other ranged attacker with Cassia. She has shorter range, so you have to be in range of them, and all they have to do is stand still and shoot you. Yeah, you take less damage while moving, but you still take damage, and a lot of the time you take full damage because timing your stutter steps EXACTLY with their attacks, especially given the time it takes for her Attack and Ability animations, is impossible.

    You can stutter step a melee AAer, but you can do that just as well with ANY ranged attacker, her trait doesn't come into play at that point.

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  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    edited April 2017
    RE Avoidance:
    I think the problem is that giving it a delay/decay means even when she gets rooted or stunned - the things that are literally meant to hamstring her - she would still have avoidance active. Otherwise, I guess the ability could be "You have 65 physical armor if you moved within the last 1 second and while not stunned or rooted." But does that actually really make her better? I feel like, if anything, Tracer is just a weird exception and you'll have to get lucky hitting her with your Qs since they do a boatload of damage.

    RE Valeera in general:
    Fuck this character. I still hate that she's in the game. It isn't fun. "Unrevealed" wasn't the worst on Samuro because it was usually an escape. It's a fucking nightmare on Valeera because it means she can engage on you from seemingly anywhere and immediately deal half your health bar without reprisal. Cloak of Shadows is great, but Smoke Bomb is just the best glitchy as shit heroic ever for maximum hot bullshit. :P

    [Edit]
    Picked up Probius this morning because he was a L1 hero I thought I might kind of enjoy. I'm 5-1 so far (the 1 loss was perhaps the most horrible matchmaker result I've ever seen in this game, no exaggeration), and like ... he still just doesn't feel that fun. Sure, he's a zoning character, and I kinda like that, but you have to get really close to get your pokes in, and your AAs are miserable. Photon cannon is almost irreverent besides eating some (light) damage, so he feels 100% relegated to a 2-button character. You move your pylons around as you need to and as you can, but otherwise you just ... throw out W and Q a little afterwards. Repeatedly. Where it gets me is that it doesn't really feel that good because even though you're a zoning character, your ability to punish people for entering your zone is essentially "Can I immediately kill you with this RIGHT NOW? No? Okay, I'm going to run the hell away now."
    I'm really not sure what I'd want different about him. Sometimes you can be sneaky with your pylon overcharge, but most times they just push the fight back a little or immediately die. That isn't the worst, but I wish it felt like it better belonged with his kit otherwise, you know? Also his existence is pretty much either living fine under a pylon, or peacing out because they've been destroyed, so you literally never have to manage your mana either. Not exactly fun, not exactly rewarding ... not really sure what I want to see change. He's certainly a strange one.

    ArcticLancer on
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Yeah I totally don't understand why Valeera was added into the game. "What do people like most about HotS? Bursty stealth heroes! Let's add another, and for fun make it so she can also stun and silence you instantly!"

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  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    Cloak doesn't give you that Smoke Bomb total bullshit escape. It does too many things on too short of a cooldown to really ever not pick.

    Cloak is funny, but I've never been like "damn that Valeera for taking cloak" because it dramatically shrinks the window she can work in. I'll take her escaping from ranged stuns sometimes in exchange for getting to straight up murder her she engages.

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  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    Cloak doesn't give you that Smoke Bomb total bullshit escape. It does too many things on too short of a cooldown to really ever not pick.

    Cloak is funny, but I've never been like "damn that Valeera for taking cloak" because it dramatically shrinks the window she can work in. I'll take her escaping from ranged stuns sometimes in exchange for getting to straight up murder her she engages.

    I mean I still take Smoke Bomb most of the time

    But if you're up against a team that's like, Xul/Jaina/Arthas/WHOEVER ELSE, why would you not take Cloak at that point

    I used to be of that mindset, of "well duh Smoke Bomb always" but that's not the case anymore. Not since I actually tried it for myself. Cloak very much has a use and a place and if you're never picking it you're not fully utilizing her kit.

    I completely 100% negated the enemy Xul's effectiveness on me. He'd go for a Root, seeya nerd. Poison Nova? Gonezo. It's fuckin' good.

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  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    Yeah I totally don't understand why Valeera was added into the game. "What do people like most about HotS? Bursty stealth heroes! Let's add another, and for fun make it so she can also stun and silence you instantly!"

    Because she's rad :P

    Dibby
  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    Yeah I totally don't understand why Valeera was added into the game. "What do people like most about HotS? Bursty stealth heroes! Let's add another, and for fun make it so she can also stun and silence you instantly!"

    Because she's rad :P

    They need to fix her bugs with visibility because that stuff is beyond infuriating though. It just feels terrible.

    aeNqQM9.jpg
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    Yeah I totally don't understand why Valeera was added into the game. "What do people like most about HotS? Bursty stealth heroes! Let's add another, and for fun make it so she can also stun and silence you instantly!"

    Because she's rad :P

    Her character or playstyle? I have no problems with Valeera, although I know nothing about her besides what she says in Hearthstone. I don't think they needed another bursty stealth hero in the game though, let alone one also with silence and stuns...

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  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    It is genuinely boggling how long they've spent making Nova exactly NOT THAT only to release Valeera doing EXACTLY THAT again. Bonus points for saying "But what if we could have two good escapes AND unbreakable cloak in her base kit?"

    If nothing else, the state of Valeera and Probius makes me appreciate Cassia for actually seeming like she had a design in mind even if she isn't perfect.

  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    Yeah I totally don't understand why Valeera was added into the game. "What do people like most about HotS? Bursty stealth heroes! Let's add another, and for fun make it so she can also stun and silence you instantly!"

    Because she's rad :P

    Her character or playstyle? I have no problems with Valeera, although I know nothing about her besides what she says in Hearthstone. I don't think they needed another bursty stealth hero in the game though, let alone one also with silence and stuns...

    Both. Rogues are cool and I have fun playing her. I don't think she's so OP.

    Smrtnik
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    Yeah I totally don't understand why Valeera was added into the game. "What do people like most about HotS? Bursty stealth heroes! Let's add another, and for fun make it so she can also stun and silence you instantly!"

    Because she's rad :P

    Her character or playstyle? I have no problems with Valeera, although I know nothing about her besides what she says in Hearthstone. I don't think they needed another bursty stealth hero in the game though, let alone one also with silence and stuns...

    Both. Rogues are cool and I have fun playing her. I don't think she's so OP.

    I don't think she's OP, she's just unfun to fight against, similar to how Nova and Zeratul have been at certain points in their hero design lives.

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