Gotta say, that was a genius way to get the crowd to accept Orton winning the Rumble.
Which means that somebody back there is very very aware of the crowd's reaction to Roman.
Which begs the question: why's Roman still a face? Let the man heel. He'd be good at it.
Addendum: pacing-wise, that was probably one of the better Rumbles I've ever watched. There weren't many dead spots like most ones.
What about him would be good as a heel? The only thing that would change is that the reactions he gets would make sense.
If he's still booked to win, or lose by being the best, or enter at number 1 and be out half the Rumble, or enter at number 30 and be out all the Rumble, and be in the final four of the Rumble for the last FOUR years in a row, and generally be booked the opposite of what anyone wants, people still won't like him any more than they do now.
And yes, people like Stone Cold probably ended up in the last men standing in the Rumble a lot too. But people wanted him there.
There was no reason for Roman to even be in the Rumble, he just had a title shot and got the crap kicked out of him. Was there just an open Rumble slot waiting there? And which better character did he take it from?
Yeah, that made no sense to me either. The people running the Rumble kayfabe hate Roman. Why would they give him any slot, let alone 30 right after the part-time ringers?
Why didn't AJ get a spot then? If they were both there it would have made at least slightly more sense.
I think I don't actually want to see Owens/Jericho going into Mania. It perpetuates the problem that the Roman/Owens feud started with: Raw's mid-card belt is tied up in the main event feud. This is assuming that one of those titles doesn't change hands at Fastlane or a random-ass Raw sometime in the next couple of months.
Also, babyface Jericho isn't nearly as entertaining as our current petulant asshole Jericho.
I think I don't actually want to see Owens/Jericho going into Mania. It perpetuates the problem that the Roman/Owens feud started with: Raw's mid-card belt is tied up in the main event feud. This is assuming that one of those titles doesn't change hands at Fastlane or a random-ass Raw sometime in the next couple of months.
Also, babyface Jericho isn't nearly as entertaining as our current petulant asshole Jericho.
Jericho can maintain a separate feud and hang out with KO. It just takes writers with an attention span greater than that of a goldfish.
I think I don't actually want to see Owens/Jericho going into Mania. It perpetuates the problem that the Roman/Owens feud started with: Raw's mid-card belt is tied up in the main event feud. This is assuming that one of those titles doesn't change hands at Fastlane or a random-ass Raw sometime in the next couple of months.
Also, babyface Jericho isn't nearly as entertaining as our current petulant asshole Jericho.
Jericho can maintain a separate feud and hang out with KO. It just takes writers with an attention span greater than that of a goldfish.
Oh sure, I want them to continue to be the best friends that ever existed. I just don't want them to feud.
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Johnny ChopsockyScootaloo! We have to cook!Grillin' HaysenburgersRegistered Userregular
Gotta say, that was a genius way to get the crowd to accept Orton winning the Rumble.
Which means that somebody back there is very very aware of the crowd's reaction to Roman.
Which begs the question: why's Roman still a face? Let the man heel. He'd be good at it.
Addendum: pacing-wise, that was probably one of the better Rumbles I've ever watched. There weren't many dead spots like most ones.
What about him would be good as a heel? The only thing that would change is that the reactions he gets would make sense.
If he's still booked to win, or lose by being the best, or enter at number 1 and be out half the Rumble, or enter at number 30 and be out all the Rumble, and be in the final four of the Rumble for the last FOUR years in a row, and generally be booked the opposite of what anyone wants, people still won't like him any more than they do now.
And yes, people like Stone Cold probably ended up in the last men standing in the Rumble a lot too. But people wanted him there.
There was no reason for Roman to even be in the Rumble, he just had a title shot and got the crap kicked out of him. Was there just an open Rumble slot waiting there? And which better character did he take it from?
We get it. Roman Reigns punched your dog or stole your parking space or something and can never be forgiven.
But seriously, your obsession with being mad about the existence of Roman Reigns is starting to get a bit tiring.
Gotta say, that was a genius way to get the crowd to accept Orton winning the Rumble.
Which means that somebody back there is very very aware of the crowd's reaction to Roman.
Which begs the question: why's Roman still a face? Let the man heel. He'd be good at it.
Addendum: pacing-wise, that was probably one of the better Rumbles I've ever watched. There weren't many dead spots like most ones.
What about him would be good as a heel? The only thing that would change is that the reactions he gets would make sense.
If he's still booked to win, or lose by being the best, or enter at number 1 and be out half the Rumble, or enter at number 30 and be out all the Rumble, and be in the final four of the Rumble for the last FOUR years in a row, and generally be booked the opposite of what anyone wants, people still won't like him any more than they do now.
And yes, people like Stone Cold probably ended up in the last men standing in the Rumble a lot too. But people wanted him there.
There was no reason for Roman to even be in the Rumble, he just had a title shot and got the crap kicked out of him. Was there just an open Rumble slot waiting there? And which better character did he take it from?
We get it. Roman Reigns punched your dog or stole your parking space or something and can never be forgiven.
But seriously, your obsession with being mad about the existence of Roman Reigns is starting to get a bit tiring.
I've explained what he's done so it's nothing like punching a dog. You made a statement and I've asked a question. Answer it or ignore it rather than make a spurious response.
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Johnny ChopsockyScootaloo! We have to cook!Grillin' HaysenburgersRegistered Userregular
Roman, as a heel, would be a cocky smug bastard heel who fights, a character that the Raw brand is sorely lacking at this juncture. You keep accusing him of wrong-doing for his booking, which is asinine because there's never been any indication that he's forcing Vince to keeping booking him this way.
Roman Reigns is a good wrestler who has good matches and is cursed with bad booking.
Yeah, that made no sense to me either. The people running the Rumble kayfabe hate Roman. Why would they give him any slot, let alone 30 right after the part-time ringers?
Why didn't AJ get a spot then? If they were both there it would have made at least slightly more sense.
I was wondering the same thing, my guess is that AJ wasn't able to compete because he was still recovering from the match immediately prior.
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Johnny ChopsockyScootaloo! We have to cook!Grillin' HaysenburgersRegistered Userregular
Roman, as a heel, would be a cocky smug bastard heel who fights, a character that the Raw brand is sorely lacking at this juncture. You keep accusing him of wrong-doing for his booking, which is asinine because there's never been any indication that he's forcing Vince to keeping booking him this way.
Roman Reigns is a good wrestler who has good matches and is cursed with bad booking.
Right, but my response wasn't "even if he is a heel he will keep booking himself this way", it was that "even if he is a heel, he will keep being booked this way".
Nothing wrong with the quality of the match, just didn't need another Cena reign, especially at the expense of AJ who has been doing excellent work as the champion.
Cena is going to eventually surpass Flair's record. Might as well get 16 over with now.
I'd book Cena to win again late 2017/early 2018 and drop the title to a new guy at Mania 34. I'd like to do that scenario this Mania but not with Orton as the Rumble winner and not going to Raw.
LasbrookIt takes a lot to make a stewWhen it comes to me and youRegistered Userregular
I love all the pictures of dudes riding in the go karts, it was the weirdest thing and mostly seemed reserved for the big dudes and I was really curious if they were showing that on camera or not, sounds like not. I'm also curious if any of the fix the screen chants came through, one of the big screens they have up top(the one facing us even) broke real bad for I dunno a solid 10 minutes or more.
Other than someone spilling beer on me at the end of the Styles/Cena match and the Neville/Swann match not being as exciting as I expected the rumble was really good. Was super excited my #17 spot ended up being Big E even if letting the New Day win the rumble was a pipe dream. Roman coming out definitely got a huge what the fuck from me, I was pretty convinced at that point he would win it after he eliminated my pick to win the Undertaker.
Didn't get any spectacular pictures from the night but I did record Undertaker's only intro as it was the first time I've seen Taker live and dunno when I might again.
I love all the pictures of dudes riding in the go karts, it was the weirdest thing and mostly seemed reserved for the big dudes and I was really curious if they were showing that on camera or not, sounds like not. I'm also curious if any of the fix the screen chants came through, one of the big screens they have up top(the one facing us even) broke real bad for I dunno a solid 10 minutes or more.
Other than someone spilling beer on me at the end of the Styles/Cena match and the Neville/Swann match not being as exciting as I expected the rumble was really good. Was super excited my #17 spot ended up being Big E even if letting the New Day win the rumble was a pipe dream. Roman coming out definitely got a huge what the fuck from me, I was pretty convinced at that point he would win it after he eliminated my pick to win the Undertaker.
Didn't get any spectacular pictures from the night but I did record Undertaker's only intro as it was the first time I've seen Taker live and dunno when I might again.
Did Harper get no response as it comes across on TV?
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LasbrookIt takes a lot to make a stewWhen it comes to me and youRegistered Userregular
In general the WWE needs to get rid of "asshole faces"
Like basically every "face" aside from Titus that has feuded with Rusev for the past year, their primary motivation for the feud has been "they were an asshole to Lana and Rusev is mad about it"
Titus was fine and was a normal face/heel feud ("HAPPY FATHER'S DAY!") but stuff like Rusev/Roman or Rusev/Enzo was totally just about how dudes we're being dicks to Lana, and Rusev was understandably mad about it?
And that's weird? Stop being weird, WWE. Let good guys be good guys, the Attitude Era is dead.
But you're never going to get rid of that because, as someone noted above with Austin, a lot of wrestling fandom is a power fantasy. Dudes who can't beat up people they don't like enjoy watching dudes pretend to beat up other dudes pretending to be people they don't like.
I joked about this last night but yeah I agree with you on the Rusev thing, and to the same level, Miz- we've got these two guys who are outrageous heels, based on the aspects of their characters being "I love my wife, and I think I'm good at my job and deserve respect for it." The problem is there's that unfortunate part of the viewer base who will approach those guys as the heel becuase for some reason they don't "deserve" that respect or that happiness. These are the people who want to watch someone beat of physical manifestations of their insecurities. And they buy t-shirts.
Shorter version: asshole faces exist because there's still a significant portion of the fanbase that thinks being an asshole themselves and getting away with it would be cool. For more on this, see: politics.
I fell asleep right around #20 last night and woke up sometime around 2009 to see Randy Orton win the Royal Rumble. I have absolutely no problem with Randy as a person or a wrestler but there are so many other people on that roster who could have used that push.
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LasbrookIt takes a lot to make a stewWhen it comes to me and youRegistered Userregular
I'm probably not the best metric, Sunday was a long day before I even sat down for four hours of wrestling. Goose might have a better idea as Luke was his boy at #25.
In general the WWE needs to get rid of "asshole faces"
Like basically every "face" aside from Titus that has feuded with Rusev for the past year, their primary motivation for the feud has been "they were an asshole to Lana and Rusev is mad about it"
Titus was fine and was a normal face/heel feud ("HAPPY FATHER'S DAY!") but stuff like Rusev/Roman or Rusev/Enzo was totally just about how dudes we're being dicks to Lana, and Rusev was understandably mad about it?
And that's weird? Stop being weird, WWE. Let good guys be good guys, the Attitude Era is dead.
But you're never going to get rid of that because, as someone noted above with Austin, a lot of wrestling fandom is a power fantasy. Dudes who can't beat up people they don't like enjoy watching dudes pretend to beat up other dudes pretending to be people they don't like.
I joked about this last night but yeah I agree with you on the Rusev thing, and to the same level, Miz- we've got these two guys who are outrageous heels, based on the aspects of their characters being "I love my wife, and I think I'm good at my job and deserve respect for it." The problem is there's that unfortunate part of the viewer base who will approach those guys as the heel becuase for some reason they don't "deserve" that respect or that happiness. These are the people who want to watch someone beat of physical manifestations of their insecurities. And they buy t-shirts.
Shorter version: asshole faces exist because there's still a significant portion of the fanbase that thinks being an asshole themselves and getting away with it would be cool. For more on this, see: politics.
So what you're saying is wrestling fans are horrible people
In general the WWE needs to get rid of "asshole faces"
Like basically every "face" aside from Titus that has feuded with Rusev for the past year, their primary motivation for the feud has been "they were an asshole to Lana and Rusev is mad about it"
Titus was fine and was a normal face/heel feud ("HAPPY FATHER'S DAY!") but stuff like Rusev/Roman or Rusev/Enzo was totally just about how dudes we're being dicks to Lana, and Rusev was understandably mad about it?
And that's weird? Stop being weird, WWE. Let good guys be good guys, the Attitude Era is dead.
But you're never going to get rid of that because, as someone noted above with Austin, a lot of wrestling fandom is a power fantasy. Dudes who can't beat up people they don't like enjoy watching dudes pretend to beat up other dudes pretending to be people they don't like.
I joked about this last night but yeah I agree with you on the Rusev thing, and to the same level, Miz- we've got these two guys who are outrageous heels, based on the aspects of their characters being "I love my wife, and I think I'm good at my job and deserve respect for it." The problem is there's that unfortunate part of the viewer base who will approach those guys as the heel becuase for some reason they don't "deserve" that respect or that happiness. These are the people who want to watch someone beat of physical manifestations of their insecurities. And they buy t-shirts.
Shorter version: asshole faces exist because there's still a significant portion of the fanbase that thinks being an asshole themselves and getting away with it would be cool. For more on this, see: politics.
So what you're saying is wrestling fans are horrible people
Saying we should get rid of all of one type of character is stupid
EDIT: That said, they should be treated as such, as Austin initially was
I don't think the problem is the archetype it that they over use it. Most all of their faces are at least moderately douchey in some way and the ones that aren't, being legit nice is often played as a weakness. The sexist, homophobic, cool guy swagger thing is a huge problem among them. The Catty, backstabbing, soap opera trope is a huge problem among the women A lot of the writing is proof that most of the creative group never made it past the emotional maturity of a 13 yr old. Again one or two characters like this add dimension and flavor... most all of them being this way makes the product as a whole unappealing at times.
Saying we should get rid of all of one type of character is stupid
EDIT: That said, they should be treated as such, as Austin initially was
Agreed, there's nothing wrong with asshole faces. DX were assholes as faces, the Rock was/is an asshole as a face. The problem is that them being an asshole generally resolves around mocking their opponent and their hot wife.
The Rock, Enzo, and Roman all involved/insulted Lana in some way in their feud with Rusev.
On the flipside, Dean could be considered a bit of an asshole, even one with a code of honour, he fed Ellsworth to Brock for instance (which while funny is kayfabe brutal), but he feuded with the Miz (and maybe I'm just remembering wrong), but I don't think he ever brought up Maryse in a sexual capacity or tried to interfere in their relationship, he just called her out for cheating on Miz's behalf.
EDIT: Speaking of Enzo, I forgot to say I was super surprised they had Cass go out so early. I thought they were quite high on him so expected a stronger showing.
AlphaRomero on
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HawkstoneDon't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things. Somewhere outside of BarstowRegistered Userregular
Saying we should get rid of all of one type of character is stupid
EDIT: That said, they should be treated as such, as Austin initially was
Agreed, there's nothing wrong with asshole faces. DX were assholes as faces, the Rock was/is an asshole as a face. The problem is that them being an asshole generally resolves around mocking their opponent and their hot wife.
The Rock, Enzo, and Roman all involved/insulted Lana in some way in their feud with Rusev.
On the flipside, Dean could be considered a bit of an asshole, even one with a code of honour, he fed Ellsworth to Brock for instance (which while funny is kayfabe brutal), but he feuded with the Miz (and maybe I'm just remembering wrong), but I don't think he ever brought up Maryse in a sexual capacity or tried to interfere in their relationship, he just called her out for cheating on Miz's behalf.
EDIT: Speaking of Enzo, I forgot to say I was super surprised they had Cass go out so early. I thought they were quite high on him so expected a stronger showing.
This is a lot of it too me, I actually like that there is more subtlety to the "villians" in this scenario. Both Rusev and Miz clearly love their spouses and treat them with respect. It makes them much better than the average mustache twirling villain. It tells me a lot that on SD they are among my favorites...another is AJ. You know why...because the things he are saying are often completely correct. The things he hits Cena for in promos are most true and that isn't John's fault...it is crap material they saddle him with. The dude should be superman, but he gets on the mic and he belittles and denigrates for cheap pops from preteens. There is sure a place for that guy but it shouldn't be the dude who is always talking about respect and is busting his ass for make a wish kids.
Posts
What about him would be good as a heel? The only thing that would change is that the reactions he gets would make sense.
If he's still booked to win, or lose by being the best, or enter at number 1 and be out half the Rumble, or enter at number 30 and be out all the Rumble, and be in the final four of the Rumble for the last FOUR years in a row, and generally be booked the opposite of what anyone wants, people still won't like him any more than they do now.
And yes, people like Stone Cold probably ended up in the last men standing in the Rumble a lot too. But people wanted him there.
There was no reason for Roman to even be in the Rumble, he just had a title shot and got the crap kicked out of him. Was there just an open Rumble slot waiting there? And which better character did he take it from?
Why didn't AJ get a spot then? If they were both there it would have made at least slightly more sense.
Also, babyface Jericho isn't nearly as entertaining as our current petulant asshole Jericho.
Jericho can maintain a separate feud and hang out with KO. It just takes writers with an attention span greater than that of a goldfish.
Oh sure, I want them to continue to be the best friends that ever existed. I just don't want them to feud.
We get it. Roman Reigns punched your dog or stole your parking space or something and can never be forgiven.
But seriously, your obsession with being mad about the existence of Roman Reigns is starting to get a bit tiring.
Steam ID XBL: JohnnyChopsocky PSN:Stud_Beefpile WiiU:JohnnyChopsocky
I've explained what he's done so it's nothing like punching a dog. You made a statement and I've asked a question. Answer it or ignore it rather than make a spurious response.
Roman Reigns is a good wrestler who has good matches and is cursed with bad booking.
Steam ID XBL: JohnnyChopsocky PSN:Stud_Beefpile WiiU:JohnnyChopsocky
What?
That was a fantastic match.
I feel like some people are just unreceptive to good Cena and Reigns matches
I was wondering the same thing, my guess is that AJ wasn't able to compete because he was still recovering from the match immediately prior.
BUT CENA AND ROMAN RUIN EVERYTHING BY WRESTLING
HOW ARE YOU NOT SEEING IT
Steam ID XBL: JohnnyChopsocky PSN:Stud_Beefpile WiiU:JohnnyChopsocky
Can we talk about the mail, please, Mac? I've been dying to talk about the mail with you all day, OK?
Comics, Games, Booze
They never did this before. PPVs usually go up immediately after airing.
Right, but my response wasn't "even if he is a heel he will keep booking himself this way", it was that "even if he is a heel, he will keep being booked this way".
Nothing wrong with the quality of the match, just didn't need another Cena reign, especially at the expense of AJ who has been doing excellent work as the champion.
I'd book Cena to win again late 2017/early 2018 and drop the title to a new guy at Mania 34. I'd like to do that scenario this Mania but not with Orton as the Rumble winner and not going to Raw.
Also also, totally knew Randy would win.
Other than someone spilling beer on me at the end of the Styles/Cena match and the Neville/Swann match not being as exciting as I expected the rumble was really good. Was super excited my #17 spot ended up being Big E even if letting the New Day win the rumble was a pipe dream. Roman coming out definitely got a huge what the fuck from me, I was pretty convinced at that point he would win it after he eliminated my pick to win the Undertaker.
Didn't get any spectacular pictures from the night but I did record Undertaker's only intro as it was the first time I've seen Taker live and dunno when I might again.
Steam
Did Harper get no response as it comes across on TV?
Steam
Which is probably telling.
But you're never going to get rid of that because, as someone noted above with Austin, a lot of wrestling fandom is a power fantasy. Dudes who can't beat up people they don't like enjoy watching dudes pretend to beat up other dudes pretending to be people they don't like.
I joked about this last night but yeah I agree with you on the Rusev thing, and to the same level, Miz- we've got these two guys who are outrageous heels, based on the aspects of their characters being "I love my wife, and I think I'm good at my job and deserve respect for it." The problem is there's that unfortunate part of the viewer base who will approach those guys as the heel becuase for some reason they don't "deserve" that respect or that happiness. These are the people who want to watch someone beat of physical manifestations of their insecurities. And they buy t-shirts.
Shorter version: asshole faces exist because there's still a significant portion of the fanbase that thinks being an asshole themselves and getting away with it would be cool. For more on this, see: politics.
I'm probably not the best metric, Sunday was a long day before I even sat down for four hours of wrestling. Goose might have a better idea as Luke was his boy at #25.
Steam
So what you're saying is wrestling fans are horrible people
I mean, have you met them?
Saying we should get rid of all of one type of character is stupid
EDIT: That said, they should be treated as such, as Austin initially was
I don't think the problem is the archetype it that they over use it. Most all of their faces are at least moderately douchey in some way and the ones that aren't, being legit nice is often played as a weakness. The sexist, homophobic, cool guy swagger thing is a huge problem among them. The Catty, backstabbing, soap opera trope is a huge problem among the women A lot of the writing is proof that most of the creative group never made it past the emotional maturity of a 13 yr old. Again one or two characters like this add dimension and flavor... most all of them being this way makes the product as a whole unappealing at times.
Agreed, there's nothing wrong with asshole faces. DX were assholes as faces, the Rock was/is an asshole as a face. The problem is that them being an asshole generally resolves around mocking their opponent and their hot wife.
The Rock, Enzo, and Roman all involved/insulted Lana in some way in their feud with Rusev.
On the flipside, Dean could be considered a bit of an asshole, even one with a code of honour, he fed Ellsworth to Brock for instance (which while funny is kayfabe brutal), but he feuded with the Miz (and maybe I'm just remembering wrong), but I don't think he ever brought up Maryse in a sexual capacity or tried to interfere in their relationship, he just called her out for cheating on Miz's behalf.
EDIT: Speaking of Enzo, I forgot to say I was super surprised they had Cass go out so early. I thought they were quite high on him so expected a stronger showing.
This is a lot of it too me, I actually like that there is more subtlety to the "villians" in this scenario. Both Rusev and Miz clearly love their spouses and treat them with respect. It makes them much better than the average mustache twirling villain. It tells me a lot that on SD they are among my favorites...another is AJ. You know why...because the things he are saying are often completely correct. The things he hits Cena for in promos are most true and that isn't John's fault...it is crap material they saddle him with. The dude should be superman, but he gets on the mic and he belittles and denigrates for cheap pops from preteens. There is sure a place for that guy but it shouldn't be the dude who is always talking about respect and is busting his ass for make a wish kids.
Not that I could hear.
Huh?