FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Having cosmetic and function of items linked is an argument that has been going on in game design for awhile, and lately having them independent has been more popular.
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
so I was reading more and the additional characters will all be end-game post-Story mode, so there won't be cutscenes in story mode with spider-man or hawkeye, end-game is multiplayer missions
They're supporting this game for years, the'll almost certainly add more "core" story at some point. Or at least I really hope they do. It'd be nice if some of the characters they've introduced since then play some sort of role there, especially considering they'll all be free and available to everyone.
theyre adding new multiplayer missions and Raids, and the new characters get their own side-stories, but I dont think theyve ever said theyre adding a new 'core' story just the side stories, missions and raids
Every GaaS adds more main story content. That's like... the whole thing that keeps it going. Whether in the form of DLC chapters or full fledged expansions.
Not doing so would be a comically huge short sighted mistake.
You don't support a game for years but also have the story end 20 hours after the initial launch.
Loot as a stat buff is fine when it’s not the focus of the game. For a shlooter (or whatever name we’re coming up with for a super hero looter) where your primary reward is loot, yeah, losing the visual feedback isn’t great.
It's long been an issue for me with super hero games. Like when I played City of Heroes, champions online or the aforementioned marvel heroes. When loot gave you zero visual flare it makes you get bored of doing literally anything.
I have the exact opposite opinion. I didn't want loot visuals cluttering up my costume designs in City of Heroes, and I don't really want to have to have a World of Warcraft clown costume version of the Hulk in this game.
... Hulk is the one character in this game who would appropriately have a clown costume, though.
I get that people don't want a super hero clown costume, and I agree, but also having the same costume I did at level 1 to level whatever also gets on me. And this game definitely feels like they are going to sell the shit out of costumes and not give anything to the player for just playing it, well not give anything to the pc/xbox gamer. PS4 will probably get all the costumes for free
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I mean there's a happy medium. Like Injustice 2 does a pretty good job imo. Or combinations of owned gear can unlock costumes. It doesn't have to be "clown suit grab bag" or "no visual changes, ever."
Loot as a stat buff is fine when it’s not the focus of the game. For a shlooter (or whatever name we’re coming up with for a super hero looter) where your primary reward is loot, yeah, losing the visual feedback isn’t great.
It's long been an issue for me with super hero games. Like when I played City of Heroes, champions online or the aforementioned marvel heroes. When loot gave you zero visual flare it makes you get bored of doing literally anything.
I have the exact opposite opinion. I didn't want loot visuals cluttering up my costume designs in City of Heroes, and I don't really want to have to have a World of Warcraft clown costume version of the Hulk in this game.
... Hulk is the one character in this game who would appropriately have a clown costume, though.
I haven't been in this thread until now, but I did play the PS4 Preorder Beta. I was pretty hyped based on the concept and some of the stuff shown during their War Table livestreams.
I am significantly less hyped now. I'm sure none of my feedback is new, or something that y'all haven't already said or heard a dozen times already in this thread, but I haven't read the whole thread, or even any of it. So here goes. This is my own take on the beta.
1) The opening mission, while being a fun taste of each hero, was surprisingly on-rails and felt almost too restrictive. Especially to then immediately lose access to all of those characters. I wanted more time with each of them, and the little scripted segments they were each a part of were far too short, and far too currated. Also, maybe it's just me, but I didn't even find the beginning scenario to be all that exciting. They roll out this thing called a Sonic Disruptor Bomb, or something like that. Which sounds like a bunch of word soup to me. It has no quantifiable meaning that I can wrap my head around. What's the threat here, exactly? Why do we care?
2) The framerate was very stuttery and not smooth at all. I experienced a lot of performance issues in both the opening sequence, as well as all of the other subsequent missions I ran. The game felt very poorly optimized, and even given this one point of feedback alone, I think the game needs another 3+ months of development time, just to further optimize it and smooth out the issues. Not a good look when the very first thing I notice is screen stutter in a beta that is intended to market to me, wow me, and get me to want the game even more. Not a great starting impression.
3) Back in 2019 when we got the first E3 trailer, a lot of people, myself included, noted that the character models were.... not the best. To put it politely. They looked more like placeholder graphics and to be quite honest, they looked like last generation character models. They certainly did not look like the high quality character models we have seen from this same studio in the Tomb Raider games. To this day, I still hold to the opion that the Lara Croft character model from Rise and Shadow is probably one of the most believable and realistic character models ever created. And after having played the beta, my impression has not improved since that 2019 reveal, almost a year ago. Characters, especially their hair, looks really bad. Hulk looks like he's wearing a toupee. His hair literally looks like it's a single polygon mesh that if he catches a strong breeze, it will be blown right off his head. Other characters, such as Black Widow and Thor also look very stiff. These are not 2020 visuals. These look like 2012 visuals. They look like character models that would be right at home on the PS3/360, not on the current gen consoles. Definitely not on a PS5 or Series X, assuming they don't use higher renders on the new consoles.
4) Matchmaking never worked for me. I made multiple attempts to host and join public games, and something always went wrong. Not a good impression for a beta that was trying to sell its online modes and multiplayer co-op. I eventually just turned off matchmaking and went in with AI companions, which leads me to my next point.
5) The AI companions were pretty terrible and useless. To the point where most of the time they might as well have not even been there at all. That first mission in the snow, where you're standing on the circle to fill a bar, while also fighting baddies, my AI companion was out doing who knows what, and I completely solo'd that event.
6) Boss fights felt very health spongey and were much longer than they needed to be. They didn't test my skill, and they were pretty easy with the telegraphs and such. I'd like to see each boss fight reduced in overall duration by about 35%. They just all felt too long, and got tiresome very quickly. Plus, most of the bosses were also not very dynamic, at least not in this beta. They just kind of stood there and took a ton of abuse. The Taskmaster fight was particularly bad in this regard. Taskmaster was nothing but a punching bag with WAY too much health. Obviously since that was a tutorial mission they couldn't make him too difficult. But for a game as scripted and cinematic as this game is, his fight was just... boring.
7) The loot system was overly complicated with all the flimflams you have to collect in order to level up pieces. And the fact that the loot has no bearing on cosmetics or your character model made it feel like a hollow victory when I got an upgrade. I didn't particularly like the loot system in Destiny, and this system is such a blatant clone of Destiny that it's honestly a little embarrassing for how little effort was put into it to be unique or compelling. I don't have much more to say on it. I was disappointed with it, and it didn't add anything of value to my play experience.
8) Finally, and maybe my biggest point of all... Tomb Raider 2013, and Rise of Tomb Raider set a very high standard for what this studio is capable of creating. Even in 2013, TR had stunning visuals, amazing level design, a compelling story, and very good character models. And I am getting none of that from this beta version of Avengers. If I didn't already have the knowledge that this game was created by the same studio that gave us those two masterpiece games, I wouldn't believe it if you told me it was the same studio. They look, feel, and play like two completely different teams made them. The smooth gameplay, great graphics, everything that was such a high hallmark for the TR series is completely missing from Avengers. This game feels like it was made by an amateur studio with a very low budget.
I get that people don't want a super hero clown costume, and I agree, but also having the same costume I did at level 1 to level whatever also gets on me. And this game definitely feels like they are going to sell the shit out of costumes and not give anything to the player for just playing it, well not give anything to the pc/xbox gamer. PS4 will probably get all the costumes for free
There will be cash shop costumes but we already know there will be plenty of costumes you can unlock by just playing the game. Each character has a "character card" with several different costumes unlockable that way alone. They've also mentioned other ways to get costumes in the game. I feel like this assessment is very pessimistic especially when we know that's not the case.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
I get that people don't want a super hero clown costume, and I agree, but also having the same costume I did at level 1 to level whatever also gets on me. And this game definitely feels like they are going to sell the shit out of costumes and not give anything to the player for just playing it, well not give anything to the pc/xbox gamer. PS4 will probably get all the costumes for free
I mean there's a happy medium. Like Injustice 2 does a pretty good job imo. Or combinations of owned gear can unlock costumes. It doesn't have to be "clown suit grab bag" or "no visual changes, ever."
There are cosmetics. They just aren't tied to equipment.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
1) The opening mission, while being a fun taste of each hero, was surprisingly on-rails and felt almost too restrictive. Especially to then immediately lose access to all of those characters. I wanted more time with each of them, and the little scripted segments they were each a part of were far too short, and far too currated.
I mean, the begining of the game would be their tutorials, and then the game is about getting the Avengers back together. Also, there's obviously more in the actual game.
I haven't been in this thread until now, but I did play the PS4 Preorder Beta. I was pretty hyped based on the concept and some of the stuff shown during their War Table livestreams.
I am significantly less hyped now. I'm sure none of my feedback is new, or something that y'all haven't already said or heard a dozen times already in this thread, but I haven't read the whole thread, or even any of it. So here goes. This is my own take on the beta.
1) The opening mission, while being a fun taste of each hero, was surprisingly on-rails and felt almost too restrictive. Especially to then immediately lose access to all of those characters. I wanted more time with each of them, and the little scripted segments they were each a part of were far too short, and far too currated. Also, maybe it's just me, but I didn't even find the beginning scenario to be all that exciting. They roll out this thing called a Sonic Disruptor Bomb, or something like that. Which sounds like a bunch of word soup to me. It has no quantifiable meaning that I can wrap my head around. What's the threat here, exactly? Why do we care?
Welcome to an Avengers movie?? But seriously, I think they intentionally didn't tip their hand too much in the beta. I think there's a lot of gaps that hopefully the full game will fill in. But I mean, we also know what the threat is?? It's clear the characters think it's bad and they convey that, then the game shows you that yes, that was in fact bad. I don't think the total timeskip between that and the next mission does em any favors though, but that's one of the gaps I think will have "more" in the actual game.
2) The framerate was very stuttery and not smooth at all. I experienced a lot of performance issues in both the opening sequence, as well as all of the other subsequent missions I ran. The game felt very poorly optimized, and even given this one point of feedback alone, I think the game needs another 3+ months of development time, just to further optimize it and smooth out the issues. Not a good look when the very first thing I notice is screen stutter in a beta that is intended to market to me, wow me, and get me to want the game even more. Not a great starting impression.
Are you on a base PS4? Not that that matters that much. Yes, there's some performance issues that are making people wary. I'm gonna try out the PC version as well but unless they've made some performance improvements since this build was made (entirely possible) it's...not great when the action starts on PS4.
4) Matchmaking never worked for me. I made multiple attempts to host and join public games, and something always went wrong. Not a good impression for a beta that was trying to sell its online modes and multiplayer co-op. I eventually just turned off matchmaking and went in with AI companions, which leads me to my next point.
They made a few announcements over the weekend that matchmaking was having issues and they hope to have it in a better state for these next beta tests. I can almost promise you matchmaking will be busted for a couple days on launch too, it's the way of online focused games since you're bound to run into issues at scale. And I know some people will complain "but why can't they plan for this!" and they do. It's not usually a capacity problem so much as a "holy crap hundreds of thousands of people are storming the servers and such and such component is breaking in a weird way, uh oh". I'm not really that worried about this, every game has these issues and every game resolves them.
5) The AI companions were pretty terrible and useless. To the point where most of the time they might as well have not even been there at all. That first mission in the snow, where you're standing on the circle to fill a bar, while also fighting baddies, my AI companion was out doing who knows what, and I completely solo'd that event.
Yes, the AI is terrible. It's mostly fine while in combat, but when it comes to objectives or exploration they're completely (and I do mean completely) useless. My favorite thing is when you walk up to a door you need to bash to open and Hulk is standing there looking dumbfounded. Would it have killed you to give me a way to tell him to get this open??
7) The loot system was overly complicated with all the flimflams you have to collect in order to level up pieces. And the fact that the loot has no bearing on cosmetics or your character model made it feel like a hollow victory when I got an upgrade. I didn't particularly like the loot system in Destiny, and this system is such a blatant clone of Destiny that it's honestly a little embarrassing for how little effort was put into it to be unique or compelling. I don't have much more to say on it. I was disappointed with it, and it didn't add anything of value to my play experience.
I don't see the Destiny comparison other than gear has stats and perks? This is pretty standard fare for any looter type game. The upgrade components could use some pruning but so far the itemization felt ok? Or at least what I'd expect for a section of the game that tops out at level 15 (compared to 50 max in the full game). You're not going to see more unique perks yet. It's clear they're leaving the door open for focused builds which is pretty cool.
8) Finally, and maybe my biggest point of all... Tomb Raider 2013, and Rise of Tomb Raider set a very high standard for what this studio is capable of creating. Even in 2013, TR had stunning visuals, amazing level design, a compelling story, and very good character models. And I am getting none of that from this beta version of Avengers. If I didn't already have the knowledge that this game was created by the same studio that gave us those two masterpiece games, I wouldn't believe it if you told me it was the same studio. They look, feel, and play like two completely different teams made them. The smooth gameplay, great graphics, everything that was such a high hallmark for the TR series is completely missing from Avengers. This game feels like it was made by an amateur studio with a very low budget.
I think its impossible to judge this game's story based on the beta because it's intentionally set up to not give anything away. But sure, I'll give you some of the other stuff feels a little bit rougher, but I'll chalk some of that up to the difference in the type of games. It's much easier to optimize and make a single player game look shiny. I don't think the game looks that bad, particularly in action, though.
To each their own I guess? I know for myself the beta weekend has made me a lot more hyped. Though to be fair I think the early trailers turned me off too so them giving anything that's at least fun to play is a pleasant surprise. I went back and rewatched the war tables and having that context makes me a little more optimistic about what the full game brings.
If you've played destiny, the UI for looking at the loot is nearly identical. Compare to The Division which is also extremely similar but atleast tried to make their own UI.
Yeah. The loot isn't "like Destiny." The loot "is Destiny." Everything about it is exactly the same. The presentation on screen, the way you have each slot open into it's own little bay of boxes that hold loot of that type, the way you even have an onscreen mouse cursor. The way you press and hold a button to scrap old loot and turn it into more flimflams. It's literally exactly the same as Destiny. I'm not making a comparison. I'm saying that Avenger's system was 100% lifted from Destiny and copy/pasted into this game.
As for the system question, yes, I'm on a base PS4.
I haven't been in this thread until now, but I did play the PS4 Preorder Beta. I was pretty hyped based on the concept and some of the stuff shown during their War Table livestreams.
I am significantly less hyped now. I'm sure none of my feedback is new, or something that y'all haven't already said or heard a dozen times already in this thread, but I haven't read the whole thread, or even any of it. So here goes. This is my own take on the beta.
1) The opening mission, while being a fun taste of each hero, was surprisingly on-rails and felt almost too restrictive. Especially to then immediately lose access to all of those characters. I wanted more time with each of them, and the little scripted segments they were each a part of were far too short, and far too currated. Also, maybe it's just me, but I didn't even find the beginning scenario to be all that exciting. They roll out this thing called a Sonic Disruptor Bomb, or something like that. Which sounds like a bunch of word soup to me. It has no quantifiable meaning that I can wrap my head around. What's the threat here, exactly? Why do we care?
Welcome to an Avengers movie?? But seriously, I think they intentionally didn't tip their hand too much in the beta. I think there's a lot of gaps that hopefully the full game will fill in. But I mean, we also know what the threat is?? It's clear the characters think it's bad and they convey that, then the game shows you that yes, that was in fact bad. I don't think the total timeskip between that and the next mission does em any favors though, but that's one of the gaps I think will have "more" in the actual game.
I understood from the context of the game that it's a threat. That was never in question. What I'm saying is that "Sonic Disruptor Bomb" is just a bunch of tech gibberish that means absolutely nothing to me as a person living in 2020. Sure, the people on the screen are saying it's bad. That's fine. But that doesn't mean that it makes it any less of a word soup. You know what a Sonic Disruptor Bomb sounds like to me? It sounds like a weapon invented by Dr. Robotnik to stop Sonic the Hedgehog. And I'm pretty sure that's not what they were going for here. But that's where my mind went when they said it. Because it's just word soup.
Lucascraft on
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
I haven't been in this thread until now, but I did play the PS4 Preorder Beta. I was pretty hyped based on the concept and some of the stuff shown during their War Table livestreams.
I am significantly less hyped now. I'm sure none of my feedback is new, or something that y'all haven't already said or heard a dozen times already in this thread, but I haven't read the whole thread, or even any of it. So here goes. This is my own take on the beta.
1) The opening mission, while being a fun taste of each hero, was surprisingly on-rails and felt almost too restrictive. Especially to then immediately lose access to all of those characters. I wanted more time with each of them, and the little scripted segments they were each a part of were far too short, and far too currated. Also, maybe it's just me, but I didn't even find the beginning scenario to be all that exciting. They roll out this thing called a Sonic Disruptor Bomb, or something like that. Which sounds like a bunch of word soup to me. It has no quantifiable meaning that I can wrap my head around. What's the threat here, exactly? Why do we care?
Welcome to an Avengers movie?? But seriously, I think they intentionally didn't tip their hand too much in the beta. I think there's a lot of gaps that hopefully the full game will fill in. But I mean, we also know what the threat is?? It's clear the characters think it's bad and they convey that, then the game shows you that yes, that was in fact bad. I don't think the total timeskip between that and the next mission does em any favors though, but that's one of the gaps I think will have "more" in the actual game.
I understood from the context of the game that it's a threat. That was never in question. What I'm saying is that "Sonic Disruptor Bomb" is just a bunch of tech gibberish that means absolutely nothing to me as a person living in 2020. Sure, the people on the screen are saying it's bad. That's fine. But that doesn't mean that it makes it any less of a word soup. You know what a Sonic Disruptor Bomb sounds like to me? It sounds like a weapon invented by Dr. Robotnik to stop Sonic the Hedgehog. And I'm pretty sure that's not what they were going for here. But that's where my mind went when they said it. Because it's just word soup.
Isn't that just comics, though?
Like, Super Soldier Serum, Arc Reactor, or Terrigenesis are not exactly scientifically coherent, either.
Yeah. The loot isn't "like Destiny." The loot "is Destiny." Everything about it is exactly the same. The presentation on screen, the way you have each slot open into it's own little bay of boxes that hold loot of that type, the way you even have an onscreen mouse cursor. The way you press and hold a button to scrap old loot and turn it into more flimflams. It's literally exactly the same as Destiny. I'm not making a comparison. I'm saying that Avenger's system was 100% lifted from Destiny and copy/pasted into this game.
As for the system question, yes, I'm on a base PS4.
To be clear, the UI will seem familiar but calling the loot "Destiny" is more than just UI. The stats function differently, the perks on items aren't really anything like Destiny, the rarities mean different things, etc. We don't really have a full list of perks and how they all interact yet, but to say the loot "is Destiny" is horribly misleading, particularly if you're basing it on "the UI is clean because they pulled most of that from Destiny". I mean, that's just smart?
Yeah. The loot isn't "like Destiny." The loot "is Destiny." Everything about it is exactly the same. The presentation on screen, the way you have each slot open into it's own little bay of boxes that hold loot of that type, the way you even have an onscreen mouse cursor. The way you press and hold a button to scrap old loot and turn it into more flimflams. It's literally exactly the same as Destiny. I'm not making a comparison. I'm saying that Avenger's system was 100% lifted from Destiny and copy/pasted into this game.
As for the system question, yes, I'm on a base PS4.
To be clear, the UI will seem familiar but calling the loot "Destiny" is more than just UI. The stats function differently, the perks on items aren't really anything like Destiny, the rarities mean different things, etc. We don't really have a full list of perks and how they all interact yet, but to say the loot "is Destiny" is horribly misleading, particularly if you're basing it on "the UI is clean because they pulled most of that from Destiny". I mean, that's just smart?
At a cursory glance, it actually looks quite similar. The loot has a Gear Score, which looks to be very similar to Power Level/Light Level in destiny, where the score adds up and contributes to your overall Level. Also, there's a set of stats near the top, similar to destiny's stats. In destiny there's 6, here I see 4 stats. Similar to the gear score, each piece of loot seems to have a stat assigned to it to reduce the cooldown (?) Or maybe increases the effectiveness of those powers affect by the stats. Gear also seems to have a unique perk tied to it, something destiny does as well.
For comparison, my guy in destiny from a while ago-
And the Avengers gear screen
Another thing I just noticed, the avengers even has an "Artifact" slot which is another RPG element destiny has to further add powers/abilities
The devs themselves said they plan to use a "path to power" system for stat gains, which sounds... Familar
Yeah. The loot isn't "like Destiny." The loot "is Destiny." Everything about it is exactly the same. The presentation on screen, the way you have each slot open into it's own little bay of boxes that hold loot of that type, the way you even have an onscreen mouse cursor. The way you press and hold a button to scrap old loot and turn it into more flimflams. It's literally exactly the same as Destiny. I'm not making a comparison. I'm saying that Avenger's system was 100% lifted from Destiny and copy/pasted into this game.
As for the system question, yes, I'm on a base PS4.
To be clear, the UI will seem familiar but calling the loot "Destiny" is more than just UI. The stats function differently, the perks on items aren't really anything like Destiny, the rarities mean different things, etc. We don't really have a full list of perks and how they all interact yet, but to say the loot "is Destiny" is horribly misleading, particularly if you're basing it on "the UI is clean because they pulled most of that from Destiny". I mean, that's just smart?
At a cursory glance, it actually looks quite similar. The loot has a Gear Score, which looks to be very similar to Power Level/Light Level in destiny, where the score adds up and contributes to your overall Level. Also, there's a set of stats near the top, similar to destiny's stats. In destiny there's 6, here I see 4 stats. Similar to the gear score, each piece of loot seems to have a stat assigned to it to reduce the cooldown (?) Or maybe increases the effectiveness of those powers affect by the stats. Gear also seems to have a unique perk tied to it, something destiny does as well.
For comparison, my guy in destiny from a while ago-
snip
Another thing I just noticed, the avengers even has an "Artifact" slot which is another RPG element destiny has to further add powers/abilities
The devs themselves said they plan to use a "path to power" system for stat gains, which sounds... Familar
I'm very familiar with Destiny's loot. Gear score is also present in basically every looter game these days (and heck, mmos in general where gear is a real thing). It's a staple of the genre, I'd be real surprised if a game came out that didn't have that. Stats, similarly. There's nothing really that interesting about either game's stats, though the ones in Avengers affect damage done/taken and not so much cooldowns so there's a difference there. I do wonder if the heroic stat does affect cooldowns though, I'll have to check into that.
Gear generally gets 1-3 perks (at least, the lower level gear in the beta) that are unlocked by enhancing it. ie if a legendary item drops it doesn't come with all perks unlocked. You have to use materials to level it (note that this does not work like Destiny, which you can bring up items you like by eating a higher power level item). Each slot does have its own perk pool afaik, but unlike Destiny these are more interesting perks, ie one that Iron Man gear can have is "X% Chance weak point attacks trigger an anti-gravity field that causes nearby enemies to float in the air." while Destiny 2 has weapon perks that affect that specific weapon or armor mods would be the closest and those can slightly modify either stats, a weapon type stats, or again, better cooldowns, they don't really add additional procs to your character, etc. Both play well into their focus, but calling them copy/paste is not really accurate.
Artifacts in this aren't like the seasonal artifacts in Destiny 2 (which really just serve as another way to get seasonal specific mods). Instead, they're more or less another gear slot with other perks. You get 2 minor artifact slots and then a major artifact slot which is for more interesting artifacts and perks.
I mean, what you're doing is loading up Diablo 3, seeing that it has gear and item levels and items have intrinsic abilities and saying "yep, destiny 2". These are just genre staples.
Destiny has a ton of obvious influences, diablo among them. But the UI is very much tied to the game systems, and aping that UI comes part and parcel with aping the mechanics underneath. You're confusing "influence" with outright theft. Like I said, an example of taking the ideas of destiny (and other looter shooters like Borderlands) is The Division, which is mechanically quite similar to Destiny, but also doesn't invite as much direct comparison because the UI, game systems, and endgame underneath it are actually different. Saying "diablo is destiny" ignores all the work Bungie did in making their own gear and leveling system.
Anyone with a brain can see that Crystal Dynamic's wasn't so much inspired but rather, too lazy to come up with their own UI and so did the easy out and copied their homework.
In the end it's fine to enjoy the game for what it is, but constantly going to bat for the game when these aren't even outlandish criticisms, just obvious truths about the game isn't healthy for the game in the long term. Destiny is far from perfect, trust me. It's been a long battle from day one, same with lots of other Looter Shooters. In the end, you're going to be grinding the game a lot for loot, so the loot has to be enticing. All the gear looking the same while stealing the stat style of destiny is completely missing the point of that system. Gear in Destiny tells a story about who you are, what you've done and how you wanna play. You're always inspecting other players to see how they look and what gear they have. There's not much reason to do that in avengers, so it's a hollow copy of that system with none of the personality.
This is potentially the saddest promo yet. I get it's low effort, but trading Likes/clout on social media for silly nameplates is bottom of the barrel behavior
I see that this is going to become another thread of people who have decided they don't like the thing and so are going to come in to throw thinly veiled insults at people who are actually enjoying the thing. So I'm out.
This is potentially the saddest promo yet. I get it's low effort, but trading Likes/clout on social media for silly nameplates is bottom of the barrel behavior
Are you fucking kidding me
What the fuck is your issue? Are developers not allowed to market their game anymore?
Like I get criticizing shit you don’t like but this thread is ABSURD I’d like to be able to come here to find people to play with during beta and post launch it it’s clear this is primarily a thread for hating the game
Like can you please take your stuff to reddit or twitter so people can actually use this thread to coordinate and not be fucking miserable
Just don’t buy or follow it and you can forget it exists
I see that this is going to become another thread of people who have decided they don't like the thing and so are going to come in to throw thinly veiled insults at people who are actually enjoying the thing. So I'm out.
You can enjoy the thing. Nobody is saying don't enjoy the thing. But why defend the game for stealing it's loot system when almost every preview mentions it being a "destiny like" in nature. If you wanna have a discussion on the game then you have to be honest about it, and if you plug your ears and say "it's actually way different" if you mean way more shallow then sure, it's different.
It's not a personal attack, it's just people bending over backwards to defend the game because it's fun. You can like the thing and acknowledge it has some flaws that need a look at. Criticism is not inherently negative.
I'm sorry I said "anyone with a brain" I should have said "anyone with eyes" it doesn't have to do with intelligence it has to do with honesty. If you're being honest with yourself you can acknowledge the downsides while also praising the game for what it gets right. I'm not trying to be rude, it's just so painfully obvious that to suggest otherwise is actually crazy to me.
I did a crazy thing and read some impressions from outlets, to get an idea for the combat: https://www.ign.com/articles/marvels-avengers-review-2
Finding out that every character has the same generic attack combo, and only 3 unique abilities that are on cooldowns (hmmm stating to sound like shallow destiny here) was eye-opening. It's actually worse than I thought.
This is potentially the saddest promo yet. I get it's low effort, but trading Likes/clout on social media for silly nameplates is bottom of the barrel behavior
Are you fucking kidding me
What the fuck is your issue? Are developers not allowed to market their game anymore?
Like I get criticizing shit you don’t like but this thread is ABSURD I’d like to be able to come here to find people to play with during beta and post launch it it’s clear this is primarily a thread for hating the game
Like can you please take your stuff to reddit or twitter so people can actually use this thread to coordinate and not be fucking miserable
Just don’t buy or follow it and you can forget it exists
It is a low move. They're literally trading crumbs of the game for the ability to continue to bombard people with marketing about the game, and also increase their follow counts on all accounts to make the game seem more popular. It's actually pretty scummy, I don't know why you're defending it but sure I'm the problem here
If it makes it more convenient I can spoiler any further criticism
Just a friendly reminder that Avengers is a billion dollar franchise they don't have to do this lowtier garbage to market their game, the game should be selling itself but they've botched the marketing so bad they probably feel that have to
Isn't a beta specifically for this sort of critique anyway? Like, they're supposed to put their best foot forward and allow people to test things out, ostensibly, for input to make the thing better. This time should be spent getting and logging as many impressions of the game as possible, and calling out the devs for their overblown monetization of a game that isn't even out yet is very valid.
You know, the age old way to make change is just "shut up and forget about it." Just accept things as they are, never criticize anything because they is no reason to ever try, devs never listen to their fans and change things for the better, not worth even trying to improve things as the status quo will always remain, and is in fact unwavering in the face of any pushback, so why even bother right
Isn't a beta specifically for this sort of critique anyway? Like, they're supposed to put their best foot forward and allow people to test things out, ostensibly, for input to make the thing better. This time should be spent getting and logging as many impressions of the game as possible, and calling out the devs for their overblown monetization of a game that isn't even out yet is very valid.
No, that's alpha. Beta is mainly for marketing and stress testing these days, and unless they were gonna delay this game's release, that seems to fit here.
All these stupid brand deals are also baked in now and won't be going away. The only thing complaining might impact is whatever standard things are in their standard store. But probably not for several months. If they are like every other company, they will go as low as possible until backlash forces them to back up slightly.
Isn't a beta specifically for this sort of critique anyway? Like, they're supposed to put their best foot forward and allow people to test things out, ostensibly, for input to make the thing better. This time should be spent getting and logging as many impressions of the game as possible, and calling out the devs for their overblown monetization of a game that isn't even out yet is very valid.
No, that's alpha. Beta is mainly for marketing and stress testing these days, and unless they were gonna delay this game's release, that seems to fit here.
All these stupid brand deals are also baked in now and won't be going away. The only thing complaining might impact is whatever standard things are in their standard store. But probably not for several months. If they are like every other company, they will go as low as possible until backlash forces them to back up slightly.
I guess traditionally yeah, alpha would be for that, but this is the first public-facing test. This is the only chance people have to give their feedback pre-launch. Sure, maybe it won't change anything, but Square-Enix specifically has a lot of experience releasing betas/demos and inquiring about actual feedback and have made changes based on that. Octopath traveler and Bravely Default 2 are good examples of this. And yeah, the involvement of Marvel and how tied up in cynical marketing deals this game is probably precludes them from actually doing anything with the feedback from players - at least for now. Maybe they'll address some of this stuff down the line, but I have a feeling the people that are turned off by the game now won't be around to care about the changes later.
That said, there's plenty of people who are either unbothered/not bothered enough not to buy the game/aren't actively following the game this closely that the game is gonna be a giant hit, and it'll make all of the money. And if it makes all of the money then, well, they'll be even less inclined to care about the critiques. *shrug*
Anthem, the game that's held up as an example of how Not to do Games as a Service model, sold 5-6 million copies at launch. I can see the Avengers game doing easily double that. The difference is how many will stick around. If they game isn't fun on repeated grinding sessions, it's gonna be a tough first year for the title.
Here's the rub: I'd love to eat my words, and the game turns out to be a deep RPG brawler with stylish action and engaging story arcs. I'd love for the game to redo the UI to make it more original and reflecting of the games unique mechanics. I'd like to see less sameness across the characters in terms of combos and abilities. I'd like to see them cut a deal to bring Miles Morales to all players. Etc. I know that's not likely to happen in any capacity, but it's my personal lists of Things That Can Save Avengers for me.
Also for those who don't like my hot takes, there is a forum ignore button
I was thinking about the characters i'd like to see and She Hulk was one of them. This may be influenced by playing the marvel champions LCG.
I'm also secretly hoping for Wasp and Ant Man, in any sort of playable form. It makes a lot of sense, seeing as they have a bunch of resizing in game already.
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited August 2020
I mean, the big problem with gear over all is the same as any other RPG like this, and it has bullshit junk about +Damage or whatever.
Gear should be rarer and more significant. Add Stun, or an extra Shield Bounce, or chain lightning, but lower damage, etc. So you can change your playstyle, not just incrementals
I wasn't super pumped about a gear system in the game, but I actually like what I've seen. It's not overwhelmingly complex as far as having to compare a ton of stats (looking at you, ridiculous Marvel Heroes gear), but a lot of the gear I had changed things in ways I enjoyed, adding extra little abilities to some of my skills. And I imagine you could focus on gear to adjust what sort of perks you like. I liked the idea of focusing my Iron Man on increased stun generation because I enjoyed the execution movies, but I didn't get especially far with it in beta.
I also like that you can keep leveling up a piece of gear if you find one you like instead of having to replace it right away.
if those are the other DLC characters then i think how they play will be very important. don't think folks will be happy if they just feel like re-skins of Hulk and Clint. they aren't bad choices, and i expect(hope) they set up story reasons for the choices but they will need to make them feel distinct.
Agreed, though I think they've made characters feel different enough thus far so I expect them to keep that up, ideally, get even better at it. We shall see!
Posts
Every GaaS adds more main story content. That's like... the whole thing that keeps it going. Whether in the form of DLC chapters or full fledged expansions.
Not doing so would be a comically huge short sighted mistake.
You don't support a game for years but also have the story end 20 hours after the initial launch.
... Hulk is the one character in this game who would appropriately have a clown costume, though.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
I am significantly less hyped now. I'm sure none of my feedback is new, or something that y'all haven't already said or heard a dozen times already in this thread, but I haven't read the whole thread, or even any of it. So here goes. This is my own take on the beta.
1) The opening mission, while being a fun taste of each hero, was surprisingly on-rails and felt almost too restrictive. Especially to then immediately lose access to all of those characters. I wanted more time with each of them, and the little scripted segments they were each a part of were far too short, and far too currated. Also, maybe it's just me, but I didn't even find the beginning scenario to be all that exciting. They roll out this thing called a Sonic Disruptor Bomb, or something like that. Which sounds like a bunch of word soup to me. It has no quantifiable meaning that I can wrap my head around. What's the threat here, exactly? Why do we care?
2) The framerate was very stuttery and not smooth at all. I experienced a lot of performance issues in both the opening sequence, as well as all of the other subsequent missions I ran. The game felt very poorly optimized, and even given this one point of feedback alone, I think the game needs another 3+ months of development time, just to further optimize it and smooth out the issues. Not a good look when the very first thing I notice is screen stutter in a beta that is intended to market to me, wow me, and get me to want the game even more. Not a great starting impression.
3) Back in 2019 when we got the first E3 trailer, a lot of people, myself included, noted that the character models were.... not the best. To put it politely. They looked more like placeholder graphics and to be quite honest, they looked like last generation character models. They certainly did not look like the high quality character models we have seen from this same studio in the Tomb Raider games. To this day, I still hold to the opion that the Lara Croft character model from Rise and Shadow is probably one of the most believable and realistic character models ever created. And after having played the beta, my impression has not improved since that 2019 reveal, almost a year ago. Characters, especially their hair, looks really bad. Hulk looks like he's wearing a toupee. His hair literally looks like it's a single polygon mesh that if he catches a strong breeze, it will be blown right off his head. Other characters, such as Black Widow and Thor also look very stiff. These are not 2020 visuals. These look like 2012 visuals. They look like character models that would be right at home on the PS3/360, not on the current gen consoles. Definitely not on a PS5 or Series X, assuming they don't use higher renders on the new consoles.
4) Matchmaking never worked for me. I made multiple attempts to host and join public games, and something always went wrong. Not a good impression for a beta that was trying to sell its online modes and multiplayer co-op. I eventually just turned off matchmaking and went in with AI companions, which leads me to my next point.
5) The AI companions were pretty terrible and useless. To the point where most of the time they might as well have not even been there at all. That first mission in the snow, where you're standing on the circle to fill a bar, while also fighting baddies, my AI companion was out doing who knows what, and I completely solo'd that event.
6) Boss fights felt very health spongey and were much longer than they needed to be. They didn't test my skill, and they were pretty easy with the telegraphs and such. I'd like to see each boss fight reduced in overall duration by about 35%. They just all felt too long, and got tiresome very quickly. Plus, most of the bosses were also not very dynamic, at least not in this beta. They just kind of stood there and took a ton of abuse. The Taskmaster fight was particularly bad in this regard. Taskmaster was nothing but a punching bag with WAY too much health. Obviously since that was a tutorial mission they couldn't make him too difficult. But for a game as scripted and cinematic as this game is, his fight was just... boring.
7) The loot system was overly complicated with all the flimflams you have to collect in order to level up pieces. And the fact that the loot has no bearing on cosmetics or your character model made it feel like a hollow victory when I got an upgrade. I didn't particularly like the loot system in Destiny, and this system is such a blatant clone of Destiny that it's honestly a little embarrassing for how little effort was put into it to be unique or compelling. I don't have much more to say on it. I was disappointed with it, and it didn't add anything of value to my play experience.
8) Finally, and maybe my biggest point of all... Tomb Raider 2013, and Rise of Tomb Raider set a very high standard for what this studio is capable of creating. Even in 2013, TR had stunning visuals, amazing level design, a compelling story, and very good character models. And I am getting none of that from this beta version of Avengers. If I didn't already have the knowledge that this game was created by the same studio that gave us those two masterpiece games, I wouldn't believe it if you told me it was the same studio. They look, feel, and play like two completely different teams made them. The smooth gameplay, great graphics, everything that was such a high hallmark for the TR series is completely missing from Avengers. This game feels like it was made by an amateur studio with a very low budget.
There will be cash shop costumes but we already know there will be plenty of costumes you can unlock by just playing the game. Each character has a "character card" with several different costumes unlockable that way alone. They've also mentioned other ways to get costumes in the game. I feel like this assessment is very pessimistic especially when we know that's not the case.
There are cosmetics. They just aren't tied to equipment.
I mean, the begining of the game would be their tutorials, and then the game is about getting the Avengers back together. Also, there's obviously more in the actual game.
To each their own I guess? I know for myself the beta weekend has made me a lot more hyped. Though to be fair I think the early trailers turned me off too so them giving anything that's at least fun to play is a pleasant surprise. I went back and rewatched the war tables and having that context makes me a little more optimistic about what the full game brings.
As for the system question, yes, I'm on a base PS4.
I understood from the context of the game that it's a threat. That was never in question. What I'm saying is that "Sonic Disruptor Bomb" is just a bunch of tech gibberish that means absolutely nothing to me as a person living in 2020. Sure, the people on the screen are saying it's bad. That's fine. But that doesn't mean that it makes it any less of a word soup. You know what a Sonic Disruptor Bomb sounds like to me? It sounds like a weapon invented by Dr. Robotnik to stop Sonic the Hedgehog. And I'm pretty sure that's not what they were going for here. But that's where my mind went when they said it. Because it's just word soup.
Isn't that just comics, though?
Like, Super Soldier Serum, Arc Reactor, or Terrigenesis are not exactly scientifically coherent, either.
To be clear, the UI will seem familiar but calling the loot "Destiny" is more than just UI. The stats function differently, the perks on items aren't really anything like Destiny, the rarities mean different things, etc. We don't really have a full list of perks and how they all interact yet, but to say the loot "is Destiny" is horribly misleading, particularly if you're basing it on "the UI is clean because they pulled most of that from Destiny". I mean, that's just smart?
At a cursory glance, it actually looks quite similar. The loot has a Gear Score, which looks to be very similar to Power Level/Light Level in destiny, where the score adds up and contributes to your overall Level. Also, there's a set of stats near the top, similar to destiny's stats. In destiny there's 6, here I see 4 stats. Similar to the gear score, each piece of loot seems to have a stat assigned to it to reduce the cooldown (?) Or maybe increases the effectiveness of those powers affect by the stats. Gear also seems to have a unique perk tied to it, something destiny does as well.
For comparison, my guy in destiny from a while ago-
And the Avengers gear screen
Another thing I just noticed, the avengers even has an "Artifact" slot which is another RPG element destiny has to further add powers/abilities
The devs themselves said they plan to use a "path to power" system for stat gains, which sounds... Familar
I'm very familiar with Destiny's loot. Gear score is also present in basically every looter game these days (and heck, mmos in general where gear is a real thing). It's a staple of the genre, I'd be real surprised if a game came out that didn't have that. Stats, similarly. There's nothing really that interesting about either game's stats, though the ones in Avengers affect damage done/taken and not so much cooldowns so there's a difference there. I do wonder if the heroic stat does affect cooldowns though, I'll have to check into that.
Gear generally gets 1-3 perks (at least, the lower level gear in the beta) that are unlocked by enhancing it. ie if a legendary item drops it doesn't come with all perks unlocked. You have to use materials to level it (note that this does not work like Destiny, which you can bring up items you like by eating a higher power level item). Each slot does have its own perk pool afaik, but unlike Destiny these are more interesting perks, ie one that Iron Man gear can have is "X% Chance weak point attacks trigger an anti-gravity field that causes nearby enemies to float in the air." while Destiny 2 has weapon perks that affect that specific weapon or armor mods would be the closest and those can slightly modify either stats, a weapon type stats, or again, better cooldowns, they don't really add additional procs to your character, etc. Both play well into their focus, but calling them copy/paste is not really accurate.
Artifacts in this aren't like the seasonal artifacts in Destiny 2 (which really just serve as another way to get seasonal specific mods). Instead, they're more or less another gear slot with other perks. You get 2 minor artifact slots and then a major artifact slot which is for more interesting artifacts and perks.
I mean, what you're doing is loading up Diablo 3, seeing that it has gear and item levels and items have intrinsic abilities and saying "yep, destiny 2". These are just genre staples.
Anyone with a brain can see that Crystal Dynamic's wasn't so much inspired but rather, too lazy to come up with their own UI and so did the easy out and copied their homework.
In the end it's fine to enjoy the game for what it is, but constantly going to bat for the game when these aren't even outlandish criticisms, just obvious truths about the game isn't healthy for the game in the long term. Destiny is far from perfect, trust me. It's been a long battle from day one, same with lots of other Looter Shooters. In the end, you're going to be grinding the game a lot for loot, so the loot has to be enticing. All the gear looking the same while stealing the stat style of destiny is completely missing the point of that system. Gear in Destiny tells a story about who you are, what you've done and how you wanna play. You're always inspecting other players to see how they look and what gear they have. There's not much reason to do that in avengers, so it's a hollow copy of that system with none of the personality.
https://avengers.square-enix-games.com/en-us/
This is potentially the saddest promo yet. I get it's low effort, but trading Likes/clout on social media for silly nameplates is bottom of the barrel behavior
Are you fucking kidding me
What the fuck is your issue? Are developers not allowed to market their game anymore?
Like I get criticizing shit you don’t like but this thread is ABSURD I’d like to be able to come here to find people to play with during beta and post launch it it’s clear this is primarily a thread for hating the game
Like can you please take your stuff to reddit or twitter so people can actually use this thread to coordinate and not be fucking miserable
Just don’t buy or follow it and you can forget it exists
You can enjoy the thing. Nobody is saying don't enjoy the thing. But why defend the game for stealing it's loot system when almost every preview mentions it being a "destiny like" in nature. If you wanna have a discussion on the game then you have to be honest about it, and if you plug your ears and say "it's actually way different" if you mean way more shallow then sure, it's different.
It's not a personal attack, it's just people bending over backwards to defend the game because it's fun. You can like the thing and acknowledge it has some flaws that need a look at. Criticism is not inherently negative.
I'm sorry I said "anyone with a brain" I should have said "anyone with eyes" it doesn't have to do with intelligence it has to do with honesty. If you're being honest with yourself you can acknowledge the downsides while also praising the game for what it gets right. I'm not trying to be rude, it's just so painfully obvious that to suggest otherwise is actually crazy to me.
I did a crazy thing and read some impressions from outlets, to get an idea for the combat:
https://www.ign.com/articles/marvels-avengers-review-2
Finding out that every character has the same generic attack combo, and only 3 unique abilities that are on cooldowns (hmmm stating to sound like shallow destiny here) was eye-opening. It's actually worse than I thought.
It is a low move. They're literally trading crumbs of the game for the ability to continue to bombard people with marketing about the game, and also increase their follow counts on all accounts to make the game seem more popular. It's actually pretty scummy, I don't know why you're defending it but sure I'm the problem here
Right
No, that's alpha. Beta is mainly for marketing and stress testing these days, and unless they were gonna delay this game's release, that seems to fit here.
All these stupid brand deals are also baked in now and won't be going away. The only thing complaining might impact is whatever standard things are in their standard store. But probably not for several months. If they are like every other company, they will go as low as possible until backlash forces them to back up slightly.
I guess traditionally yeah, alpha would be for that, but this is the first public-facing test. This is the only chance people have to give their feedback pre-launch. Sure, maybe it won't change anything, but Square-Enix specifically has a lot of experience releasing betas/demos and inquiring about actual feedback and have made changes based on that. Octopath traveler and Bravely Default 2 are good examples of this. And yeah, the involvement of Marvel and how tied up in cynical marketing deals this game is probably precludes them from actually doing anything with the feedback from players - at least for now. Maybe they'll address some of this stuff down the line, but I have a feeling the people that are turned off by the game now won't be around to care about the changes later.
That said, there's plenty of people who are either unbothered/not bothered enough not to buy the game/aren't actively following the game this closely that the game is gonna be a giant hit, and it'll make all of the money. And if it makes all of the money then, well, they'll be even less inclined to care about the critiques. *shrug*
Here's the rub: I'd love to eat my words, and the game turns out to be a deep RPG brawler with stylish action and engaging story arcs. I'd love for the game to redo the UI to make it more original and reflecting of the games unique mechanics. I'd like to see less sameness across the characters in terms of combos and abilities. I'd like to see them cut a deal to bring Miles Morales to all players. Etc. I know that's not likely to happen in any capacity, but it's my personal lists of Things That Can Save Avengers for me.
Also for those who don't like my hot takes, there is a forum ignore button
She-Hulk!
I was thinking about the characters i'd like to see and She Hulk was one of them. This may be influenced by playing the marvel champions LCG.
I'm also secretly hoping for Wasp and Ant Man, in any sort of playable form. It makes a lot of sense, seeing as they have a bunch of resizing in game already.
I also saw an article that we might see X-Men chars, post launch. I'd dig some Nightcrawler action!
pleasepaypreacher.net
Gear should be rarer and more significant. Add Stun, or an extra Shield Bounce, or chain lightning, but lower damage, etc. So you can change your playstyle, not just incrementals
I also like that you can keep leveling up a piece of gear if you find one you like instead of having to replace it right away.