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[Marvel's The Avengers] Officially sunset as of 2023, goodbye true believers

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  • EriktheVikingGamerEriktheVikingGamer Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    Odin has an intrinsic that deflects projectiles. So... looking like I'm gonna play some Odin! Apparently Cap does too so this should be fun.

    Also, one thing about the combat I'm finding a little frustrating is that there's little uniformity to how the game tells you what enemies are doing and when they are going to do it. Enemies have tells, and each tell is unique to that enemy when on-screen (kind of) and has a little icon pop up that fills up when they're off-screen. Some tells are about when they'll attack, some tells are about when to evade. The problem is that between all of that is a lack of coordinated timing in when things are going to happen.

    If I see an enemy beginning to wind up an eye laser in front of me and then see an enemy winding up an attack off-screen I should be able to anticipate my dodge/parry/block/gtfo windows, but the enemy eye laser in front me doesn't actually fire until it feels like it and the enemy off-screen may have signaled their attack but they're halfway across the fight and their attack won't reach me until the exact moment I feel like I've successfully dealt with the situation. (Also, off-screen eye lasers suck.) HARM Challenge III really illustrates this problem.

    I hate to make the comparison, but the Batman Arkham games really got this down pat. Granted, they also had less enemy variety.

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  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    I found an option to make the camera a bit more zoomed out while in combat, but I still felt there was way too much stuff happening off-screen.

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Batman Arkham's combat is also a dance. And when you get good at it, it is a beautifully choreographed dance of smooth, unbroken action.

    Avenger's combat cannot be described as either smooth or unbroken.

    EriktheVikingGamer
  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    One thing im not sure i like. All your heroes are leveled individually. So you play to end game with one you want, now you want to switch, you have to start at level one. I know you need gear, but i wonder how tedious this will be.

  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    One thing im not sure i like. All your heroes are leveled individually. So you play to end game with one you want, now you want to switch, you have to start at level one. I know you need gear, but i wonder how tedious this will be.

    I'm more wondering how effective they'll be if they have zero loot as AI. If I'm doing a high level mission and I've never played them, will the mission be harder? Or does the loot you have for them come into play?

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  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    RickRude wrote: »
    One thing im not sure i like. All your heroes are leveled individually. So you play to end game with one you want, now you want to switch, you have to start at level one. I know you need gear, but i wonder how tedious this will be.

    I'm more wondering how effective they'll be if they have zero loot as AI. If I'm doing a high level mission and I've never played them, will the mission be harder? Or does the loot you have for them come into play?

    I know i was sometimes choosing to start a mission due to ai characters. Ok i have loot as hulk and ms marvel, im playing as iron man and a widow just joined. I should start now. The amount of times i had my level 1, 0 gear widow be the ai.....

  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    From watching the videos before beta, they seemed to really stress the importance of building a team of heroes. You might have a favorite, but hopefully you have a handful that you enjoy playing regularly.

  • SeGaTaiSeGaTai Registered User regular
    It'll be interesting to see where they hit that balance - if they want you to be able to swap between multiple heroes regularly - then it's more likely end game gear is easier to obtain.

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  • DecatusDecatus Registered User regular
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    RickRude wrote: »
    One thing im not sure i like. All your heroes are leveled individually. So you play to end game with one you want, now you want to switch, you have to start at level one. I know you need gear, but i wonder how tedious this will be.

    I'm more wondering how effective they'll be if they have zero loot as AI. If I'm doing a high level mission and I've never played them, will the mission be harder? Or does the loot you have for them come into play?

    In the interviews and videos they've put out so far they've really made sure to say that the AI you're taking along are YOUR heroes. So your skill points, gear, and so on are all coming into play. I definitely noticed that missions got a bit easier in the beta once I had multiple characters leveled up with decent equipment. I do hope they'll put some sort of system to give parallel gear for heroes I'm not a huge fan of playing. I don't mind playing Widow for a mission or two, for example, but I really don't have much a desire to sink 40+ hours of gameplay into her just to use her as an AI tag-along.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Presumably, some story beats will have limited characters, so you would have multiple characters leveled to some point.

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Presumably, some story beats will have limited characters, so you would have multiple characters leveled to some point.

    Most (all?) will also have unique missions like the Hulk one and maybe even storyline chains. I can see a mix of that and having them in your regular team being used to keep characters leveled.

    The big missions also give gear for more
    than your main. I know I got a Black Widow drop for doing the HARM missions despite not playing her.

  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    I would say by endgame you are going to know which character you want to master. I know some people are deriding the game for having braindead combat, but some of the videos I've seen suggest otherwise (including my own experience) and that "getting good" at multiple characters is going to be a challenge.

    . . .I'm also OK with you having to put effort to get your low level characters up to snuff: you aren't going to be doing story missions over but level appropriate grinds which sounds fine to me.

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  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    ED! wrote: »
    I would say by endgame you are going to know which character you want to master. I know some people are deriding the game for having braindead combat, but some of the videos I've seen suggest otherwise (including my own experience) and that "getting good" at multiple characters is going to be a challenge.

    . . .I'm also OK with you having to put effort to get your low level characters up to snuff: you aren't going to be doing story missions over but level appropriate grinds which sounds fine to me.

    The combat engine is fairly deep - dodges, counters, combos, unlocked moves, etc. It’s the encounter design that makes it a button masher, since focusing on any one enemy for more than a second gets you slapped around by the dozen other mooks on and off screen.

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  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Presumably, some story beats will have limited characters, so you would have multiple characters leveled to some point.

    Most (all?) will also have unique missions like the Hulk one and maybe even storyline chains. I can see a mix of that and having them in your regular team being used to keep characters leveled.

    The big missions also give gear for more
    than your main. I know I got a Black Widow drop for doing the HARM missions despite not playing her.

    Yeah, IIRC the vault mission gave a purple for each character

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  • DecatusDecatus Registered User regular
    Honestly, that's my ideal. Give me some free random stuff for the characters I don't really enjoy so they aren't a drag, but let me work more on my main chacter(s) to my hearts content.

    PSN: decatus90
  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    It would be nice if bringing a hero along as an AI companion on a mission gave them at least some xp, but my impression is that this was not the case. Or if they did a Marvel Heroes where you got an XP bonus for heroes that aren't your highest leveled.

    RickRudeBlackDragon480
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Bobble wrote: »
    It would be nice if bringing a hero along as an AI companion on a mission gave them at least some xp, but my impression is that this was not the case. Or if they did a Marvel Heroes where you got an XP bonus for heroes that aren't your highest leveled.

    I think they do get some XP. I certainly noticed that the Hulk had more to unlock when I switched to him. Their gear score just doesn’t go up without better equipment.

  • KyanilisKyanilis Bellevue, WARegistered User regular
    I think what bugs me most about ranged enemies is there's a few inconsistencies. Some do have indicators, I'm pretty sure, but many don't so you end up getting hit regardless. For a game that's mostly about mastering combos and dodges/parries, there's just no way you can react to ranged enemies so it feels bad. I totally think they can fix this, other games have figured out how to have ranged indicators, but give me something dang-it.

    Spoit
  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    Warning, criticism below:

    So upthread we talked a little about the monetized DLC/Brand deal promos going on in the game. And funnily enough, the indie smash hit Fall Guys came up in the discussion:
    Kyanilis wrote: »
    Cruor wrote: »
    Jim Sterling is fine with DLC. Well, actual story DLC stuff, just not predatory cosmetic/EXP booster/day one DLC nonsense that should just be in the base game. While he certainly despises microtransactions, he mostly despises them in games you already paid full price for. Even then, microtransactions won't sink his enjoyment of games - he very much enjoys Fall Guys, even though that game has some pretty in your face microtransactions.

    Fall Guys is a good example to bring up when comparing to this game. Both games intend to continue adding content for you to enjoy for years to come at no additional cost. They both intend to do so by offering optional cosmetic purchases (along with cosmetics you can earn in game!) and that's...it. That's all you'll ever pay money for after the game itself.

    I know he's a smart guy so I'm sure he understands that there's costs associated with producing additional content. The thing is I know he understands this but somehow expects this money to appear out of nowhere? In the end Square Enix/Marvel/etc aren't going to support a game indefinitely for free. If the sacrifice to having a solid game that's fun to play as our favorite superheroes and you don't have to pay for years of additional content is some cosmetic skins in a shop and Verizon recoloring some generic looking skins? I think that's worth it. With that being said I AM annoyed by the Spider-Man thing, even though I have a PS4, but can't win em all.

    So interestingly, Fall Guys decided to follow suit... Except in the totally opposite direction.




    If you can't see the tweet, Fall Guys has decided to auction off their Brand deal to the highest bidder, but unlike Disney and Square, decided to put it in the hands of those in need rather than further line their pockets. What followed is a bidding war that is nearly half MILLION dollars, which the highest bid coming from Ninja (fuckin lmao).

    So not only did Fall Guys see the potential in a Brand deal, but they used it raised money for a good cause. Special Effects is a UK based org that creates custom gaming setups for those with disabilities.



    Really kinda makes the whole "Verizon and 5gum" skins feel that much more scummy, don't ya think. Makes me wonder how Fall Guys is gonna possibly cover these insane development costs while also just giving away branded deal money to sick kids. Wonder how they managed that miracle... The world may never know.

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  • bloodyroarxxbloodyroarxx Casa GrandeRegistered User regular
    Warning, criticism below:

    So upthread we talked a little about the monetized DLC/Brand deal promos going on in the game. And funnily enough, the indie smash hit Fall Guys came up in the discussion:
    Kyanilis wrote: »
    Cruor wrote: »
    Jim Sterling is fine with DLC. Well, actual story DLC stuff, just not predatory cosmetic/EXP booster/day one DLC nonsense that should just be in the base game. While he certainly despises microtransactions, he mostly despises them in games you already paid full price for. Even then, microtransactions won't sink his enjoyment of games - he very much enjoys Fall Guys, even though that game has some pretty in your face microtransactions.

    Fall Guys is a good example to bring up when comparing to this game. Both games intend to continue adding content for you to enjoy for years to come at no additional cost. They both intend to do so by offering optional cosmetic purchases (along with cosmetics you can earn in game!) and that's...it. That's all you'll ever pay money for after the game itself.

    I know he's a smart guy so I'm sure he understands that there's costs associated with producing additional content. The thing is I know he understands this but somehow expects this money to appear out of nowhere? In the end Square Enix/Marvel/etc aren't going to support a game indefinitely for free. If the sacrifice to having a solid game that's fun to play as our favorite superheroes and you don't have to pay for years of additional content is some cosmetic skins in a shop and Verizon recoloring some generic looking skins? I think that's worth it. With that being said I AM annoyed by the Spider-Man thing, even though I have a PS4, but can't win em all.

    So interestingly, Fall Guys decided to follow suit... Except in the totally opposite direction.


    (Tweet)

    If you can't see the tweet, Fall Guys has decided to auction off their Brand deal to the highest bidder, but unlike Disney and Square, decided to put it in the hands of those in need rather than further line their pockets. What followed is a bidding war that is nearly half MILLION dollars, which the highest bid coming from Ninja (fuckin lmao).

    So not only did Fall Guys see the potential in a Brand deal, but they used it raised money for a good cause. Special Effects is a UK based org that creates custom gaming setups for those with disabilities.

    (tweet)

    Really kinda makes the whole "Verizon and 5gum" skins feel that much more scummy, don't ya think. Makes me wonder how Fall Guys is gonna possibly cover these insane development costs while also just giving away branded deal money to sick kids. Wonder how they managed that miracle... The world may never know.

    See this why people tire of this friend, this is not the same in anyway.

    Weather you believe it or not companies exist to make money brand deals supplement development costs. The cost of manpower making 1 Fall Guy bean where the design is already done more or less is not the same as making 1 brand new character for Avengers.

    There are 4 studios+ plus outsourcing making Avengers, all those people from the employee(s) in the Crystal D mail room all the way up to the studio head.

    Also don't act like anyone donating the money is doing this purely out of the goodness of their heart. Every single one is brand promotion and aside from Mr. Beast and Ninja (well maybe Ninja is doing this from his company not personally who knows) probably maxing out their yearly corporate charitable donations in bidding, this money was already earmarked for this stuff they just get some free publicity and visual promotion.

    SpoitRickRude
  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular


    And Ninja is a complete shill who, along with his wife, will market himself for anything if it makes him money, despite the New Year's Eve show demonstrating his complete lack of general appeal.

    That said, at least disabled kids will get his money instead of him.

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  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    In regards to Brand deals;

    So this game was supposed to have released several months ago. I suspect their budget has run pretty dry by now and these brand deals are intended not simply to make more money, but to get a quick influx of cash in order to finish the game.

    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    Axen wrote: »
    In regards to Brand deals;

    So this game was supposed to have released several months ago. I suspect their budget has run pretty dry by now and these brand deals are intended not simply to make more money, but to get a quick influx of cash in order to finish the game.

    To be fair, a lot of shit was supposed to happen several months ago. Then one big thing happened. Why are we trying to tie this into some conspiracy?

    RickRude
  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    I can tell ya, from first hand experience, budgets don’t give a shit what happens in the world. You only have X amount of money.

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  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    Axen wrote: »
    I can tell ya, from first hand experience, budgets don’t give a shit what happens in the world. You only have X amount of money.

    Having a budget and running out of money are two totally different things.

    Just doing a quick Google on Square Enix.
    Square Enix's stock was trading at $43.7450 on March 11th, 2020 when Coronavirus (COVID-19) reached pandemic status according to the World Health Organization (WHO). Since then, SQNXF stock has increased by 48.7% and is now trading at $65.05.

    I'm not claiming to be the smartest man in the room, but I have to guess things aren't so bad that Square Enix has to grovel before a gum company for cash at this point. Look, if this is supposed to be some obtuse, "Here's another reason to hate this game" ploy, you gotta try a little harder.

  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    Yes, a major licensing deal like Avengers does not have the same freedoms as Fall Guys, especially given devolvers history of "fuck the man".
    More than likely, the kudos microtransactions alone are a huge profit tap, so the one time brand deal thing is less important.
    For Marvel, they probably also have to answer to Disney and don't have any control beyond "this is what a skin costs to make"

  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    ironzerg wrote: »
    Axen wrote: »
    I can tell ya, from first hand experience, budgets don’t give a shit what happens in the world. You only have X amount of money.

    Having a budget and running out of money are two totally different things.

    Just doing a quick Google on Square Enix.
    Square Enix's stock was trading at $43.7450 on March 11th, 2020 when Coronavirus (COVID-19) reached pandemic status according to the World Health Organization (WHO). Since then, SQNXF stock has increased by 48.7% and is now trading at $65.05.

    I'm not claiming to be the smartest man in the room, but I have to guess things aren't so bad that Square Enix has to grovel before a gum company for cash at this point. Look, if this is supposed to be some obtuse, "Here's another reason to hate this game" ploy, you gotta try a little harder.

    Since the stock market is largely based on emotions, a better view of Squeenix's financial health is their quarterly results. Their last one came out June 30, with the pandemic in full swing. They're making it rain, to put it mildly.

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  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    And also note, a lot of these licensing things are about cross promotion, not just collecting piles of cash. Like Verizon. They're rolling out 5G. Who do they want using their services? People who want faster speeds for their devices, like...gamers. So how does this work? The Avengers game gets promoted via Verizon and in turn Verizon gets buzz from gamers. Same with the gum and all this other shit. It's just smart cross-promotion.

    And the Fall Guys shit is dumb. That games the most amazing couple hours of fun, then the jollies wear thing pretty quick. No one's going to be talking about it in 3 months. If I were them, I'd sell out and take my million dollar check now, because their brand is going no where.

    vamenSpoit
  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    Disney made 11 billion dollars last year, Verizon made 20 billion dollars, and Square Enix made 170 million dollars. They don't need to make you pay for skins, and they definitely don't need people stanning for them.

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  • bloodyroarxxbloodyroarxx Casa GrandeRegistered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Disney made 11 billion dollars last year, Verizon made 20 billion dollars, and Square Enix made 170 million dollars. They don't need to make you pay for skins, and they definitely don't need people stanning for them.

    Pay for vanity skins get all characters and other DLC free (until a large expansion I assume) seems totally reasonable

    Fencingsax
  • vamenvamen Registered User regular
    "Yay the thread is active again!"

    *looks*

    "oh"

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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Disney made 11 billion dollars last year, Verizon made 20 billion dollars, and Square Enix made 170 million dollars. They don't need to make you pay for skins, and they definitely don't need people stanning for them.

    Pay for vanity skins get all characters and other DLC free (until a large expansion I assume) seems totally reasonable

    It's fine, just don't pretend it's anything other than straight corporate greed.

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  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    I'm flabbergasted people managed to spin "Fall Guys generate half a million for disabled kids." into "Yeah well Ninja is a shill who sucks." Ok? Never did I say the guy was a god, but donating half a mil to sick kids for a stupid skin is a whole lot cooler then trying to milk the general public out of more money in a fully priced, 60 dollar game.

    It's just a blanket good thing they've done. They deserve praise. And Disney/Square can take a few lumps, in the form of criticism, about how they chose to market their billion dollar franchise game. The pandemic has made shit harder for everything and everyone. They don't get a free pass to "recoup development costs" when Disney could fund probably 100 different Avengers games at once and still be one of the richest companies on the face of the planet.

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  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    Avengers updated on my system yesterday. Is there another open beta weekend for Ps4?

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  • DecatusDecatus Registered User regular
    Yep, the 21st - 23rd is open beta on all platforms.

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  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    ironzerg wrote: »
    And also note, a lot of these licensing things are about cross promotion, not just collecting piles of cash. Like Verizon. They're rolling out 5G. Who do they want using their services? People who want faster speeds for their devices, like...gamers. So how does this work? The Avengers game gets promoted via Verizon and in turn Verizon gets buzz from gamers. Same with the gum and all this other shit. It's just smart cross-promotion.

    And the Fall Guys shit is dumb. That games the most amazing couple hours of fun, then the jollies wear thing pretty quick. No one's going to be talking about it in 3 months. If I were them, I'd sell out and take my million dollar check now, because their brand is going no where.

    This one makes me laugh. Fall Guys is a charming work of love from a small team. Avengers is a massive waste of money, itself basically a delayed ad for the infinity war/endgame movies it missed by a year and some change. Having a good avengers game is free advertising for the brand, look at Spider-man which was a run away hit and also didn't feel the need to stuff itself full of brand deals. Saying "Fall Guys will be dead in 3 months?" Ok so what? I'll still remember it more fondly than the shambling zombie corpse of this avengers game, which hasn't generated a dime of donations to anyone other than the CEOs and board members of Disney, Marvel and Square.

    I could care less about Verizon and guess what.. I work for them lmao! They pay my paychecks and I still think they have too much money. I could give two flying fucks about 5G and cross promotion to gamers. It's all marketing, all the way down, and it's tiresome. While I'm playing my super hero game, I don't wanna see an exclusive Kamala bubble gum emote from 5Gum every time I play with friends. Maybe if 5Gum does some charitable work with Avengers gum sales, I'll give them props.

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  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    Yeah... please stop confusing "budget" with "amount of money the company COULD actually spend". The game's delays almost certainly made them go over budget. That doesn't excuse any kind of money making scheme they subsequently came up with, the game is bankrolled by two obscenely wealthy corporations. It's like you're saying "Well, that Wall Street banker budgeted $20 for lunch. Once he ran out of that $20, it's no wonder he HAD to knock over a convenience store. That budget, tho!"

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  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    Axen wrote: »
    I can tell ya, from first hand experience, budgets don’t give a shit what happens in the world. You only have X amount of money.

    I missed this one, lemme fix this

    "Budgets (aka bigwig CEOs and board members who don't wanna risk taking a small hit to their profit margins) don't give a shit what happens in the world (readily apparent given the fact that big business in the west created a situation in which they ruined other countries working class and paid them nearly nothing, creating poor working conditions and human rights violations, but they get to wash their hands of it and take in millions/billions or even trillions like Apple, while humans on the other side of the earth die in poverty). You (the person they're trying to milk out of more than 60 dollars by stuffing it full of skins and then probably eventually paid story DLC) only have X amount of money (and that amount has been locked in and cannot change because the company's will is stronger than anything else, try to change the budget on a game like this and watch as the earth itself is torn to shreds. You have been estimated to be worth 176 dollars in potential skin purchases, you must meet this quota so they can afford another Bezos sized mega yacht)."


    Gee with all this money left on the table, can't wait to see if Spider-man Miles Morales turns out to be a live service game, complere with brand deals with Tide and Band-Aids. How else will they afford to develop a game during the pandemic??

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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    I forgot to play during the 2nd weekend of beta. I need to make sure I do so this coming weekend.

    I heard something about a Beta nameplate? Are there any other unlockables or things that will carry over into the retail launch of the game?

  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    Last weekend, one of my buddies who is terrible at video games played the Open Beta, so I joined him. I did the thing to give him the Hulkbuster suit so he could jump in as Widow. That was cool.

    Every mission I picked, though, required standing on plates to hack, so that wasn't an amazing impression.

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