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Welcome to the [Marvel's The Avengers] Thread, hope you survive the experience!

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Posts

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    The whole thing with Spiderman being Playstation only just seems so dubious. I get the how and the why of it, but a MP game where only people with hardware X get a certain shiny is just very short-term thinking.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
    urahonkyPreacher
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    The whole thing with Spiderman being Playstation only just seems so dubious. I get the how and the why of it, but a MP game where only people with hardware X get a certain shiny is just very short-term thinking.

    Destiny did it for years. There is precedent gamers don't really care if the game is good, marvels avengers issue was of course it wasnt.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    The whole thing with Spiderman being Playstation only just seems so dubious. I get the how and the why of it, but a MP game where only people with hardware X get a certain shiny is just very short-term thinking.

    Destiny did it for years. There is precedent gamers don't really care if the game is good, marvels avengers issue was of course it wasnt.

    The Destiny situation should set off huge warning bells for Spider-Man lovers. The Playstation only content was always OBVIOUSLY lesser. No one should want that fate for a marquee character like Spidey.

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    So far it doesn't matter anyway. Spider-Man should have been released exactly one month after release of the game and not a moment later.

    As of right now he's vaporware and a promise unfulfilled.

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  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    If you're comparing to Destiny platform exclusives, then Spider-man should have been available at launch.

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    They clearly weren't ready for release. They were clearly pressured by Square Enix corporate HQ to hit the Fall 2020 quarterly release window. They were clearly not able to push back hard enough against that deadline and unreasonable executives.

    Feedback from the beta was universally all negative. But the beta was like 2 weeks before launch, and obviously that is not enough time to fix even small things, let alone fundamental issues with the game. Crystal Dynamics' Marvel's Avengers is basically the precursor to Cyberpunk 2077. It just didn't make the big tidal wave that Cyberpunk made. It was more of a splash.

    But they both basically are identical stories. The games are rushed by the suits, the suits are not listening to the boots on the ground who know the actual state of the game, and releasing much much much sooner than is ready.

    And in both cases, probably as much as 2 more years of development time is what is actually required to deliver a quality product at release.

    Crystal Dynamics make good video games. And they clearly have a keen eye for quality and attention to detail, because that's what their track record shows. Even before the Tomb Raider reboot, their care and attention with Tomb Raider Underworld and Tomb Raider Anniversary were both stellar games in the "old" style. They are clearly competent at what they do. Which is why it is all the more surprising how bad Avengers was at release.

    I say those things, because clearly people inside Crystal Dynamics knew that Avengers was not going to be well received or well scored by reviewers. Because it is clearly an unfinished game. It's a prototype. A prototype that needs a lot more iteration and development to flesh out and fully realize its potential.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    What's insane to me is literally all of the games as service games come out at least one to two years early and it harms them everytime and new ones come out and do the same thing. I don't think there is literally any Games as a service game that has come out fully feature provided.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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    FencingsaxMoridin889
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    What's insane to me is literally all of the games as service games come out at least one to two years early and it harms them everytime and new ones come out and do the same thing. I don't think there is literally any Games as a service game that has come out fully feature provided.

    Apex Legends?

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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Apex is a GAAS? I thought it was just a Battle Royale with character classes stolen from Overwatch?

  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Apex is a GAAS? I thought it was just a Battle Royale with character classes stolen from Overwatch?

    It was released for free, so they've gotta be making their money somewhere.

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  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    Destiny has an annual fee, which is essentially the season pass + yearly update (around 5 bucks a month for everything). But can he played for free, you just don't get the latest areas or guns

    Apex you can never spend a dime and still experience everything except cosmetics. It's supported by a season pass but it's just more cosmetics and XP boosters. The characters in Apex are all free if you play enough (and I've always had enough earnable currency to unlock the character each season). Both formats prey on gamer's fomo, but Apex is F2P with cash shop, destiny is MMO lite.

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  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Apex is a GAAS? I thought it was just a Battle Royale with character classes stolen from Overwatch?

    Overwatch didn't invent hero shooters. And it is fully FTP monetized which means both Battle Passes and gambling for desirable cosmetics. I think the game itself is fairly good, but the monetization is very low and dirty.

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited June 2021
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Apex is a GAAS? I thought it was just a Battle Royale with character classes stolen from Overwatch?

    Overwatch didn't invent hero shooters. And it is fully FTP monetized which means both Battle Passes and gambling for desirable cosmetics. I think the game itself is fairly good, but the monetization is very low and dirty.

    I don't mean that Overwatch invented hero shooters. I mean that the hero designs in Apex look like the off-brand knockoffs of Overwatch characters. But that's getting off topic.

    The conversation is simply that GAAS is a genre/business model that seems doomed to repeat each other's failures over and over again.

    Lucascraft on
    Preacher
  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Apex is a GAAS? I thought it was just a Battle Royale with character classes stolen from Overwatch?

    Overwatch didn't invent hero shooters. And it is fully FTP monetized which means both Battle Passes and gambling for desirable cosmetics. I think the game itself is fairly good, but the monetization is very low and dirty.

    I don't mean that Overwatch invented hero shooters. I mean that the hero designs in Apex look like the off-brand knockoffs of Overwatch characters.

    Nah. Overwatch feels like Pixar, Apex feels like DreamWorks. More realistic designs but not any less creative.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I don't really see either overwatch or apex as GAAS. For me those kind of games need some kind of consistent PVE content, and while both have had modes that include it, for the most part they are competitive shooters that want you to pay out the ass for cosmetics.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    What's insane to me is literally all of the games as service games come out at least one to two years early and it harms them everytime and new ones come out and do the same thing. I don't think there is literally any Games as a service game that has come out fully feature provided.

    Unfortunately it makes perfect sense to me. Saw similar stuff during the MMORPG craze. The only real difference is that the MMORPGs at least attempted to put in some of single-player campaign(ish) sort of stuff. The current crop of GAAS all seem to be doing the absolute bare minimum required to get people leveled up and doing endgame stuff. Except they're not really providing much endgame stuff either.

    The plan, such as it is, seems to be getting players hooked with a gimmick (flying in Anthem, Avengering in Avengers, etc.) and then hope they're committed enough to stick around for the roadmap.

    The funny thing is that non-GAAS games do something similar, they go gold with whatever they can compile that doesn't format the hard drive and then keep crunching to produce those fat day one patches that hopefully turn it into a full featured game. They just don't have that open ended nature that seems to lead the management to think that there's infinite development time available to sort out all the issues.
    Preacher wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    The whole thing with Spiderman being Playstation only just seems so dubious. I get the how and the why of it, but a MP game where only people with hardware X get a certain shiny is just very short-term thinking.

    Destiny did it for years. There is precedent gamers don't really care if the game is good, marvels avengers issue was of course it wasnt.

    Yeah, it's just really weird to me that Marvel is selling (licensing, whatevs) The Avengers, but you can only play as certain Avengers based on what hardware you have. Just something about splintering the IP like that gnaws at me.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    My guess is that Marvel's walking a tightrope with Sony over Spider-Man. Sony's just barely letting Marvel make the mainline Spidey movies as it is, so anything that greases the wheels, I guess.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    What's insane to me is literally all of the games as service games come out at least one to two years early and it harms them everytime and new ones come out and do the same thing. I don't think there is literally any Games as a service game that has come out fully feature provided.

    Unfortunately it makes perfect sense to me. Saw similar stuff during the MMORPG craze. The only real difference is that the MMORPGs at least attempted to put in some of single-player campaign(ish) sort of stuff. The current crop of GAAS all seem to be doing the absolute bare minimum required to get people leveled up and doing endgame stuff. Except they're not really providing much endgame stuff either.

    The plan, such as it is, seems to be getting players hooked with a gimmick (flying in Anthem, Avengering in Avengers, etc.) and then hope they're committed enough to stick around for the roadmap.

    The funny thing is that non-GAAS games do something similar, they go gold with whatever they can compile that doesn't format the hard drive and then keep crunching to produce those fat day one patches that hopefully turn it into a full featured game. They just don't have that open ended nature that seems to lead the management to think that there's infinite development time available to sort out all the issues.
    Preacher wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    The whole thing with Spiderman being Playstation only just seems so dubious. I get the how and the why of it, but a MP game where only people with hardware X get a certain shiny is just very short-term thinking.

    Destiny did it for years. There is precedent gamers don't really care if the game is good, marvels avengers issue was of course it wasnt.

    Yeah, it's just really weird to me that Marvel is selling (licensing, whatevs) The Avengers, but you can only play as certain Avengers based on what hardware you have. Just something about splintering the IP like that gnaws at me.

    I assumed it had something to do with the deal Marvel already had with Sony.

  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    I don't really see either overwatch or apex as GAAS. For me those kind of games need some kind of consistent PVE content, and while both have had modes that include it, for the most part they are competitive shooters that want you to pay out the ass for cosmetics.

    So you're dead wrong by the literal term (Games As A Service), since it should be describing an increasingly ubiquitous business model of ongoing MTX (and that is how suits use it), but it does feel like the term is increasingly deployed in this way in the gaming community. (Something like how MOBA could be anything PvP but its' actually DotA clones.) The genre is groping for a label because people (mostly suits) are afraid to label Destiny and Division as MMOs, which is really what they have the most in common with, and we've seen smaller-scale player counts creeping into games that do call themselves MMOs for a while. With proper big-budget MMOs being on life support, they might as well take up the title IMO than leave it dead...

  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Apex is a GAAS? I thought it was just a Battle Royale with character classes stolen from Overwatch?

    Overwatch didn't invent hero shooters. And it is fully FTP monetized which means both Battle Passes and gambling for desirable cosmetics. I think the game itself is fairly good, but the monetization is very low and dirty.

    I don't mean that Overwatch invented hero shooters. I mean that the hero designs in Apex look like the off-brand knockoffs of Overwatch characters. But that's getting off topic.

    The conversation is simply that GAAS is a genre/business model that seems doomed to repeat each other's failures over and over again.

    uhh as somebody who plays a lot of apex and used to play overwatch, they aren't alike at all. Maybe Paladins is what you're thinking of

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  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    My guess is that Marvel's walking a tightrope with Sony over Spider-Man. Sony's just barely letting Marvel make the mainline Spidey movies as it is, so anything that greases the wheels, I guess.

    Sony doesn't have a say in video games, because that's not how movie licensing works

    Much in the same way Sony doesn't get to say dick all about how Spider-Man gets used in TV

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  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    Maddoc wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    My guess is that Marvel's walking a tightrope with Sony over Spider-Man. Sony's just barely letting Marvel make the mainline Spidey movies as it is, so anything that greases the wheels, I guess.

    Sony doesn't have a say in video games, because that's not how movie licensing works

    Much in the same way Sony doesn't get to say dick all about how Spider-Man gets used in TV

    Sony doesn't have a say, but because Sony is holding the rights to Spidey movies and can walk away at literally any time, yeah Marvel is kinda forced to play nice with Sony as far as stuff like video game deals to sweeten the pot for Sony to stick around.

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  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Don't call me Shirley... Registered User regular
    When one company owns the movie rights to a character that Marvel has big plans for in the MCU, they will give said company pretty much whatever they want in order to get to use that character in the MCU.

    At least that is how I see it. :P

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    I knlw we have no idea about the movie rights, but do we actually know the terms of the video game rights Sony has on Spidey, as well?

  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Don't call me Shirley... Registered User regular
    I don't think we know the specifics, it just seemed to me a "Scratch our back and we'll scratch your back," but then that is just speculation on my part.

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  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I knlw we have no idea about the movie rights, but do we actually know the terms of the video game rights Sony has on Spidey, as well?

    Nope. The old Activision deal ended and Marvel was free to take the character where they wanted. Marvel had struck similar deals with Avengers and Guardians with Square around the same time, so I assume part of the negotiations to get Spidey in the MCU involved Marvel being like "hey we have these game rights just hanging around"

    That being said, Insomniac was offered a Marvel deal before the Sony buy out and they had asked for Spidey. So it all kinda came together at once.

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  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Don't call me Shirley... Registered User regular
    And boy am I glad that worked out too. I love Insomniac as a studio but if you had asked me if they were the perfect team to make a Spider-Man game, I would have said no.

    Boy would I have been wrong!

    Spider-Man and Miles Morales are up there with the Arkham series as near perfect superhero games.

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  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I knlw we have no idea about the movie rights, but do we actually know the terms of the video game rights Sony has on Spidey, as well?

    The only thing we know is that prior to these latest games, all of the Spider-Man games were made by Activision for ages, and the majority of them were not movie tie ins and had nothing to do with Sony

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Spidey was in Marvel Ultimate Alliance on Switch fairly recently, though that came out before Avengers.

    So it's possible Sony doesn't actually have a lock on Spidey in video games at the moment, but Marvel still figured they should play along with Sony's request. In fact that deal might have happened when Sony was loudly talking about ceasing cooperation with Marvel on their Spidey movies a couple years back (most likely as a negotiating tactic).

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  • McRhynoMcRhyno Registered User regular
    edited July 2021
    Picked this up because the ps5 version was on sale. I wrote this game off after the weak Hulk in the beta but I'm surprisingly actually enjoying it. Cap and Thor feel great to play.

    And the soundtrack is basically non-existent so I can play the avengers theme on repeat while smacking mooks around.

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  • KyanilisKyanilis Registered User regular
    Free weekend at the end of the month: https://avengers.square-enix-games.com/en-us/news/all-access-weekend-2021/
    PlayStation: 9 AM PT 7/29 thru 9 AM PT 8/1
    Steam: 9 AM PT 7/29 thru 9 AM PT 8/1
    Stadia: 8 AM PT 7/29 thru 8 AM PT 8/1

    No Xbox free access yet, but they say "in the coming months".

    Kind of bold of them to do a free weekend where most of the best content can be done in a day or two, but they have made several improvements to the overall game as well so maybe they're hoping it'll bring back people who were on the fence at launch. Also just before this they're launching their first big "endgame" challenge and permanently enabling multiple of the same hero in missions. They're clearly still pumping money into the game with the people they brought in for Wakanda as well. I still jump on about once a week or so for some good fun.

    Anyway, just in case anyone was still curious at all about where it was at now, soon you can check for free!

  • vamenvamen Registered User regular
    Brainiac 8 wrote: »
    And boy am I glad that worked out too. I love Insomniac as a studio but if you had asked me if they were the perfect team to make a Spider-Man game, I would have said no.

    Boy would I have been wrong!

    Spider-Man and Miles Morales are up there with the Arkham series as near perfect superhero games.

    Agreed on all points. And man, I cannot WAIT to see what they do with SM2 seeing as how I feel like Miles was such an improvement over the already fantastic SM1. Really hoping to see a lot of expanded swinging stuff.


    I've played a lot more Avengers than I realized. Everyone is maxed out and I have 2 chars with have finished their 'battlepass' and 1 who is like 2 points away.

  • SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    Hey so, is anyone still playing this? Is there group content to do or can I solo everything? I picked it up on PS5 after playing the free weekend and I've been having a lot of fun! Kamala is extremely endearing and honestly the first hour of the game sold me pretty hard before I even fought anything. And then I laughed maniacally as I bonked things with Thor's hammer.

    Any ETA on spidey? Black Panther is supposed to be a whole new campaign? I'm into it! For the discounted price, I'm really enjoying it!

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  • VikingViking Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Hey so, is anyone still playing this? Is there group content to do or can I solo everything? I picked it up on PS5 after playing the free weekend and I've been having a lot of fun! Kamala is extremely endearing and honestly the first hour of the game sold me pretty hard before I even fought anything. And then I laughed maniacally as I bonked things with Thor's hammer.

    Any ETA on spidey? Black Panther is supposed to be a whole new campaign? I'm into it! For the discounted price, I'm really enjoying it!
    I still pop in for a mission every few days, but on PC.

    Spidey "should" be next after wakanda in theory. has to be this year because of contracts with sony or some such.

    anything that isn't a story level or until recently a MegaHive is groupable, and now they changed it so you can have multiples of the same hero in the party.
    however, other than the latest challenge you can do everything solo if you prefer.

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  • McRhynoMcRhyno Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Hey so, is anyone still playing this? Is there group content to do or can I solo everything? I picked it up on PS5 after playing the free weekend and I've been having a lot of fun! Kamala is extremely endearing and honestly the first hour of the game sold me pretty hard before I even fought anything. And then I laughed maniacally as I bonked things with Thor's hammer.

    Any ETA on spidey? Black Panther is supposed to be a whole new campaign? I'm into it! For the discounted price, I'm really enjoying it!

    Yo! I just got into this too on ps5 because of a discount. Cap and Thor are definitely the best represented, shield and hammer sounds are on point

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  • InterpreterInterpreter Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Hey so, is anyone still playing this? Is there group content to do or can I solo everything? I picked it up on PS5 after playing the free weekend and I've been having a lot of fun! Kamala is extremely endearing and honestly the first hour of the game sold me pretty hard before I even fought anything. And then I laughed maniacally as I bonked things with Thor's hammer.

    Any ETA on spidey? Black Panther is supposed to be a whole new campaign? I'm into it! For the discounted price, I'm really enjoying it!

    I still pop into the game from time to time to play a mission or two, but it's not that often. I have it on PS4/PS5(I bought it at launch). I have been going slowly, in that Black Widow is my highest character at level 27, and all the other base game characters are in the teens. I've barely used the two Hawkeyes. I keep meaning to play more, but so many games in the backlog.

  • KyanilisKyanilis Registered User regular
    I still play this fairly often on PS5, usually play for an hour or two once a week or so. I started on PC but started over on PS for the eventual Spider-Man so I actually don't have anyone at max gear at the moment. It's definitely the sort of game where the repetitive endgame will get to you if you dedicate too much time to it, but as is it's kind of a chill game for me. Probably explains why I tend to be very positive about it, heh.

    As of a couple weeks ago there's now two multiplayer focused missions:

    Heroic Mega Hive Gauntlet - You can go into it solo but you can't bring AI into it. It's technically doable solo as well, it does scale down a little, but it can be pretty tough.
    Omega Level Threat: Family Reunion - You're probably not going to be doing this one solo. It's tuned for 4 player teams and can be a bit rough if the team doesn't know what they're doing.

    Everything else can be done with others or solo. There were some significant issues early on that prevented multiplayer from being stable so they didn't want to add anything that was strictly aimed at multiplayer groups, but they've resolved most of those and are now bringing out more. I think we'll start to see more OLTs before long.

    Anyway it's awesome to see some interest in this thread, I keep up on the game but haven't bothered posting much here. It still has a long way to go but the game has steadily been getting better. They had another dev stream today focused on UI updates and basically they're revamping a lot of the character menus:
    tocfvek1zsf71.jpg

    Big highlights include:
    Designed to give you a better overview at a glance of your character, no longer have to switch between several of the top tabs.
    Can be navigated entirely with the d-pad instead of the destiny-style cursor. They'll be keeping the cursor but now you have options.
    Loadouts are coming but won't initially be in War for Wakanda. These UI changes are designed to allow them to bring features like that.
    Can lock gear now, mass dismantle, etc.
    Gear slot capacity sees a slight bump, from 9 to 11.
    Faction terminals let you toggle between factions instead of having to visit several, nice qol.

    No dev stream next Friday but they do plan for a week of blogs to hype of WfW. Then 8/16 after the war table they'll have another dev stream (so day before launch).

    Decatus
  • KyanilisKyanilis Registered User regular
    They're going all out with their hype prior to Wakanda, so far they've done two prologue videos for BP:




    Then today they posted a developer blog on two new (non-robot) enemy types: https://avengers.square-enix-games.com/en-us/news/war-for-wakanda-klaue-company-blog/

    Each with unique mechanics. Looks like both can be dealt with easier by getting some new gear with the opposite attribute, but it's neat to see enemies that aren't just reskins. Feels like another step in the right direction.

  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    I've said it before, but this really feels like do or die for this game.

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  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    I've said it before, but this really feels like do or die for this game.

    oh it's already past die, this is just something they're committed to doing

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