Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

Penny Arcade - PATV - First 15 – Tower Of Guns

DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
edited February 6 in The Penny Arcade Hub

imagePenny Arcade - PATV - First 15 – Tower Of Guns

Gabe and Tycho play a game for 15 minutes and then judge it accordingly. This week they play Tower Of Guns.

Read the full story here


Unknown User on
«1

Posts

  • sawellssawells Registered User regular
    The growing despair in Mike's voice is hilarious.

  • Huttj509Huttj509 Registered User regular
    Just follow up with life of black tiger.

  • Rubik_the_CubeRubik_the_Cube Registered User regular
    Is this a time attack game? There doesn't seem to be any point in shooting anything other than the doors that let you in to the next section.

  • GDT1985GDT1985 Registered User regular
    You have to kill things to improve your damage, so you can kill stronger things, like bosses.(I haven't watched the video yet, but this is what I remember from playing.)

  • dennisdennis Registered User regular
    "I would rather find the bush with two fuckin' birds."

    I love how this video ended. That was a great little mini-discussion on how different people approach gaming and entertainment/art as a whole.

    Zilla360kime
  • sockroxsockrox Registered User regular
    Lost a lot of respect for Mike (as a reviewer) in this one. Not because I like the game but because he immediately started whining about the looks of the game before even trying the gameplay...and then his PlayStation "gateway " nonsense. Plenty of shit games make it to console.

  • unreal_edunreal_ed Registered User new member
    In the vague hope that Mike reads this, I will try to help him understand the "why" of this game. Before I start, I do not really enjoy the game, so please keep that in mind as you read the rest.

    Firstly, I absolutely believe that controls for a game TOTALLY DO change your enjoyment of a game. Think of your favorite Mario game. Now think about having to play it with a DDR pad, or only a mouse. This is partly what's happening here. It's not that consoles aren't meant for FPSes (there's tons of great ones) but this specific game does none of the changes/adjustment that a console FPS needs in order to feel comfortable to play on a console. It's a very twitchy, made-for-pc game and its exactly cloned on PS4.

    Secondly, Tower of Guns is really bad at explaining what it's about in a quick manner. There's no tutorial, no premise, no description of ANYTHING, you start off with only 2 weapons (and the one you played is the most BLAND GUN EVER), and 2 boring perks. Plus the first level is very boring, too long, has no tutorialization of any sort, and barely gives you any power-up, which are a big part of this game. Which leads me to...

    Thirdly, the premise of this game isn't bad ! It's meant to be an FPS Rogue-like mixed with some bullet hell gameplay. You go around collecting different power ups and the rooms change, forcing you to adapt your play to your situation. You'll get better, unlock more stuff as you go along which keeps the game fresh and exciting to combine possibilities and you'll improve your starting conditions, as in a game like Rogue Legacy. But, as in my 2nd point, the game is terrible at starting you off, so you only have a boring, basic range of stuff to choose from, so it barely feels like it's a roguelike at all, thus you don't get excited for the possibility of finding new powerups if you only play the early game.

    Lastly, the fantasy of this game is, imo, a pretty classic one. What Tower of Guns is aiming for is that hallway scene in The Matrix. You're running around, fast like hell, dodging bullets and taking down foes like a badass in a seemingly-impossible scenario. But since the start is boring, you don't feel that way. The second level already starts making this point much clearer. In the first level, you only somewhat get that with the bosses, but they mostly fire at random, not at you so you don't really notice or care.

    I hope this clears it up for you. I think the game somewhat fails at what it attempts to do, but if you power through an early stage you can get into a state of unlocks/familiarity with the system where you enjoy the core loop more. I personally don't have as much beef with the art as you do but I agree it's not great. Finally, here's a video of someone playing and enjoying the game: . I linked it to help you witness the excitement and how you can be in a state where you enjoy this game, even if you would never enjoy it. (watch some of the 2nd level at least)

    Zilla360RemingtoncB557
  • RemingtonRemington Registered User regular
    Mike decided he hated the game the second the first enemy spawned in (which wasn't actually an enemy). The pattern of him shitting on someone's hard work before giving it an actual chance is making First 15s pretty obnoxious to watch. Tycho Tries is far more enjoyable to watch because he wants to find the good in a game. In fact, Mike's hiatus from First 15 produced some of the more enjoyable episodes.

    MKXSig.jpg
  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    Remington wrote: »
    Mike decided he hated the game the second the first enemy spawned in (which wasn't actually an enemy). The pattern of him shitting on someone's hard work before giving it an actual chance is making First 15s pretty obnoxious to watch. Tycho Tries is far more enjoyable to watch because he wants to find the good in a game. In fact, Mike's hiatus from First 15 produced some of the more enjoyable episodes.

    "hard work"

  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    sockrox wrote: »
    Lost a lot of respect for Mike (as a reviewer) in this one. Not because I like the game but because he immediately started whining about the looks of the game before even trying the gameplay...and then his PlayStation "gateway " nonsense. Plenty of shit games make it to console.

    He's not a reviewer and this isn't a review

    RemingtonZilla360DemonStaceyLeon2309cB557
  • RemingtonRemington Registered User regular
    darkmayo wrote: »
    Remington wrote: »
    Mike decided he hated the game the second the first enemy spawned in (which wasn't actually an enemy). The pattern of him shitting on someone's hard work before giving it an actual chance is making First 15s pretty obnoxious to watch. Tycho Tries is far more enjoyable to watch because he wants to find the good in a game. In fact, Mike's hiatus from First 15 produced some of the more enjoyable episodes.

    "hard work"

    You're right, they probably clicked the "make game" button.

    MKXSig.jpg
    cB557
  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    edited February 6
    sockrox wrote: »
    Lost a lot of respect for Mike (as a reviewer) in this one. Not because I like the game but because he immediately started whining about the looks of the game before even trying the gameplay...and then his PlayStation "gateway " nonsense. Plenty of shit games make it to console.

    He's never said he was a reviewer.

    You're just watching some dude play a game.

    That's not a review.

    Really I just don't know what people are expecting. It's like watching a streamer if you don't enjoy their personality. Why watch it? You don't have to. That's all this is. If you enjoy Mike and Jerry playing games together and being Mike and Jerry then watch this, if not don't. Plenty of people, like me, find it entertaining. This is Mike's personality. This is what it's always been.

    DemonStacey on
    desc wrote: »
    ~ * ~ Week-Long Dance-a-thon Booty Ribbon ~ * ~
    Leon2309
  • cylustheviruscylusthevirus Registered User new member
    I get the hate for the art style, but what's this weird love for consoles as a gate keeper or curator of quality? It's just not fuckin' true in any case; there's been terrible, broken console games since always. Does nobody remember Superman 64? I'm sure others could pipe in with examples.

    Honestly this First15 didn't tell me much about what the guys think of the game, it just made Mike look like an asshole. Seriously though, get a damned mouse and play this thing on the platform it was clearly intended to occupy.

    Remington
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    If they sell it on PS4, it should be playable on PS4. With a PS4 controller.

    DemonStaceyLeon2309AegeriRhesus Positive
  • dennisdennis Registered User regular
    Remington wrote: »
    Mike decided he hated the game the second the first enemy spawned in (which wasn't actually an enemy). The pattern of him shitting on someone's hard work before giving it an actual chance is making First 15s pretty obnoxious to watch. Tycho Tries is far more enjoyable to watch because he wants to find the good in a game. In fact, Mike's hiatus from First 15 produced some of the more enjoyable episodes.

    So you're tired of Mike shitting on games on his free video game stream, so you come in here and shit on Mike's free video game stream.

    Thanks, I needed that. It's always hard to find the humor in Mondays.

  • jerodastjerodast Registered User regular
    Wow! This First 15's making EVERYONE angry!

  • RemingtonRemington Registered User regular
    dennis wrote: »
    Remington wrote: »
    Mike decided he hated the game the second the first enemy spawned in (which wasn't actually an enemy). The pattern of him shitting on someone's hard work before giving it an actual chance is making First 15s pretty obnoxious to watch. Tycho Tries is far more enjoyable to watch because he wants to find the good in a game. In fact, Mike's hiatus from First 15 produced some of the more enjoyable episodes.

    So you're tired of Mike shitting on games on his free video game stream, so you come in here and shit on Mike's free video game stream.

    Thanks, I needed that. It's always hard to find the humor in Mondays.

    Considering the size of PAs audience, First 15 doesn't exactly rake in the views. I'm offering the criticism that if Mike put in the effort to try and enjoy a game for more than 30 seconds, it may be a more enjoyable experience for everyone. As it stands, even Jerry seems super uncomfortable by Mike acting like someone's work is literally worthless and as a creator I feel like he'd be more open minded.

    But hey, if you find it enjoyable it's cool that you don't agree with me.

    MKXSig.jpg
  • Skull2185Skull2185 I'm extra good at beating up the weak ones! Registered User regular
    Mike did kind of decide the game was trash pretty quick. Like he went into it already deciding he didn't like it. I mean, it is a garbage game, but that was a little weird...

    Thankfully, it was a free offering on PS+ so I didn't have to spend money on it! I like the idea of the game, but the execution is pretty piss poor.

    Daylight Savings Time is a ruse perpetuated by Satan, The Devil! He harvests our sorrow to power his Misery Engine. Wake up, sheeple!
    Remington
  • RemingtonRemington Registered User regular
    Yea, thank you for more eloquently saying what I'm trying to get out. I didn't like the game a whole lot, either, but I gave it a fair chance.

    MKXSig.jpg
  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    Mike has made it very clear how he operates. If he doesn't like how something looks he doesn't like it. He's explicitly said this and the others have joked about it plenty. So he sat down and didn't like the way it looked. Then the immediate interaction was shooting that he didn't like.

    So he pretty quickly had all he needed to know he didn't like the game.

    Maybe you're new to watching Mike. If so this is how he does things and is very open about that. They even discuss it a bit at the end of this episode. He isn't interested in looking for the good. He has plenty of other stuff to entertain himself and if a game doesn't make a case for itself pretty quickly he's out.

    desc wrote: »
    ~ * ~ Week-Long Dance-a-thon Booty Ribbon ~ * ~
  • Skull2185Skull2185 I'm extra good at beating up the weak ones! Registered User regular
    I just thought it was odd that the level loaded and he immediately found it to be garbage. He hadn't even moved or shot anything yet. Maybe he's developed a 6th sense for this sort of thing, since he isn't wrong about the game :P

    Daylight Savings Time is a ruse perpetuated by Satan, The Devil! He harvests our sorrow to power his Misery Engine. Wake up, sheeple!
  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    Yea at that point it was a visual thing.

    He's very driven by the way things look and right from the get go it looked like game made by children to him.

    desc wrote: »
    ~ * ~ Week-Long Dance-a-thon Booty Ribbon ~ * ~
  • OldeSwordOldeSword Registered User new member
    This First 15 was weird because it introduced two things that I had not seen before:

    Gabe seems invested in the idea that consoles are superior to PCs because of gatekeeping that, as others have pointed out, simply doesn't exist. Sony will happily take your money if you want to publish a crap game. I've never linked Sony with quality control or artistic integrity or gatekeeping of any sort.

    And Gabe seems to have this hostility towards "indy crap" which I found really odd since most of the stuff on First 15 is "indy crap." And he's liked enough of it that I didn't detect this bias before. I have bought indy titles, like Dub Wars and Slain, because they were featured on First 15.

    It wasn't his hostility towards a bad game that threw me off. It was this blanket, elitist hostility towards indy games and PC games that threw me off. Comparing this game with AAA titles like Overwatch, Destiny, or Titanfall 2, which are not just AAA titles but AAA titles that were wildly successful instead of mediocre or crap, just didn't make sense.

    I think that's why Tycho started explaining what he is looking for when he plays games. It's why Tycho doing First 15 and then Tycho Tries makes sense: He's always looking for that beauty. Gabe's comments in this video had me wondering why he does First 15 since that is 15 fewer minutes he has to play Overwatch or Destiny.

    I mostly thought he was just in a bad mood after medical stuff.

  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    You're taking it overly serious.

    He has things against PC games for many reasons that he has discussed before. Yes he prefers consoles. He's not actually elitist about it. Try to remember when watching these bits you are watching a guy interact with his best friend. He's not saying things to review a game or give deep thought to it. He's just saying off the cuff remarks to a person who knows him well and there happens to be a camera there.

    desc wrote: »
    ~ * ~ Week-Long Dance-a-thon Booty Ribbon ~ * ~
    Skull2185Leon2309
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    edited February 8
    In this video Mike is playing a character named "Malik Kremlinikov" so you shouldn't take everything he says at face value.

    TychoCelchuuu on
    dennisLeon2309RiusRhesus Positive
  • dennisdennis Registered User regular
    There's a lot of ranting and analysis and griping that people can do (and have done), but I feel like it really boils down to this: did you see how much Mike was cracking Jerry up? At times he was just rolling. To me, that's all the explanation that's really needed.

    If you don't get a friend that you act silly with, or over the top with, or whatever, just to crack them up - GET ONE.

    TychoCelchuuuLeon2309
  • VeitVeit Registered User new member
    Mike got really hostile towards people with mental illnesses in this one, too. Which is weird, because of how he's sort of tried to position himself as in some ways adjacent to mental health advocacy, talking about his own experiences with anxiety and medication.

    Equating playing this game with cutting? Playing this means you need to be on meds? That's straight-up victimizing the wrong people.

  • TransluciaTranslucia Registered User regular
    Love is the answer, Gabe. Love the paroxysms. Never stop. This shit got philosophical at the end. Beauty being better for having found it. Deep. Where's this poetry, ya'll.. This book he said he was writing..

  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    Veit wrote: »
    Mike got really hostile towards people with mental illnesses in this one, too. Which is weird, because of how he's sort of tried to position himself as in some ways adjacent to mental health advocacy, talking about his own experiences with anxiety and medication.

    Equating playing this game with cutting? Playing this means you need to be on meds? That's straight-up victimizing the wrong people.
    I mean, I agree with you, but the answer to this is the answer to everything else in this thread: Mike is making jokes.

  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    this video is the other side of the coin to all the First 15s where Mike sees two seconds of a game's opening splash screen, exclaims "This looks gorgeous!" and has a blast based almost solely on the visuals.

  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    Veit wrote: »
    Mike got really hostile towards people with mental illnesses in this one, too. Which is weird, because of how he's sort of tried to position himself as in some ways adjacent to mental health advocacy, talking about his own experiences with anxiety and medication.

    Equating playing this game with cutting? Playing this means you need to be on meds? That's straight-up victimizing the wrong people.

    It's called jokes.

    Do you read the PA comics?

    This is the kind of humor they do.

    Why are people still surprised about this stuff?

    desc wrote: »
    ~ * ~ Week-Long Dance-a-thon Booty Ribbon ~ * ~
    dennis
  • Skull2185Skull2185 I'm extra good at beating up the weak ones! Registered User regular
    Veit wrote: »
    Mike got really hostile towards people with mental illnesses in this one, too. Which is weird, because of how he's sort of tried to position himself as in some ways adjacent to mental health advocacy, talking about his own experiences with anxiety and medication.

    Equating playing this game with cutting? Playing this means you need to be on meds? That's straight-up victimizing the wrong people.

    It's called jokes.

    Do you read the PA comics?

    This is the kind of humor they do.

    Why are people still surprised about this stuff?

    It's just the world we live in now =/

    Daylight Savings Time is a ruse perpetuated by Satan, The Devil! He harvests our sorrow to power his Misery Engine. Wake up, sheeple!
    dennis
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    People are free to like or dislike the content of specific jokes.

  • dennisdennis Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    People are free to like or dislike the content of specific jokes.

    Or even not understand that they are jokes.

  • JayCarrJayCarr Registered User regular
    Two things

    1) I love that this devolved into a a basic philosophical dichotomy. I've never seen the "one in the hand, two in the bush" conundrum explained quite this well.

    2) Folks, Mike was sick and probably in a pretty shitty mood. The joke was in poor taste, but we *all* have bad days. But it would be narrow minded, at best, to judge the entirety of one persons character on one errant commentary.

    Lest we forget, he is *on* medication (something they've discussed at great length at PAX and in the comics), and he see's a psychologist himself. He's always spoken about psychological issues in candid terms, and has always felt free to make jokes about it (though some of them, clearly, work better than others.) I personally think this helps to *normalize* the issue. As someone who is on meds themselves, I really appreciate that Mike doesn't treat the topic as sacrosanct.

  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    To be fair, the game looks like shit. With all the bouncing little enemies it reminds me of a fantasy flavored First 15 they did a couple of months ago, with little fire skulls flying around. That looked pretty bad too.

    steam_sig.png
  • RemingtonRemington Registered User regular
    dennis wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    People are free to like or dislike the content of specific jokes.

    Or even not understand that they are jokes.

    I'm not sure where this comment comes from. I don't think anyone is arguing whether or not these are jokes. Some people just think they're hateful, weirdly spiteful jokes rather than funny ones.

    I've seen the other First 15s, I've seen Mike on stage dozens of times at PAX, as well as almost all the other video content they've put out. All that being said, I don't feel like the argument "this is just Mikes personality" holds much weight. He's usually really pleasant and witty and the times something does piss him off I can generally see his side of it. This felt out of nowhere.

    I will concede that I hadn't taken his condition into consideration. That's the one argument that makes a lot of sense to me.

    On that note, I hope he's feeling better.

    MKXSig.jpg
  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular

    Remington wrote: »
    dennis wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    People are free to like or dislike the content of specific jokes.

    Or even not understand that they are jokes.

    I'm not sure where this comment comes from. I don't think anyone is arguing whether or not these are jokes. Some people just think they're hateful, weirdly spiteful jokes rather than funny ones.

    I've seen the other First 15s, I've seen Mike on stage dozens of times at PAX, as well as almost all the other video content they've put out. All that being said, I don't feel like the argument "this is just Mikes personality" holds much weight. He's usually really pleasant and witty and the times something does piss him off I can generally see his side of it. This felt out of nowhere.

    I will concede that I hadn't taken his condition into consideration. That's the one argument that makes a lot of sense to me.

    On that note, I hope he's feeling better.

    I think you're confusing the idea with the "this is Mike's personality". Those saying it aren't saying it's unpleasant because they are seeing it in a different light. There was nothing unpleasant about it to me. Just him being his funny normal self when dealing with something he doesn't like.

    That doesn't stop him from being a pleasant person but even in talking about games he calls stuff shit and makes fun of the art in things all the time. It's very common of him. When the other guy was replacing him on First 15 they even made jokes about how now he had to hate things and make mean comments because he was taking Mike's place. If that weren't part of Mike's personality why would that joke have even happened?

    desc wrote: »
    ~ * ~ Week-Long Dance-a-thon Booty Ribbon ~ * ~
  • RemingtonRemington Registered User regular
    Remington wrote: »
    dennis wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    People are free to like or dislike the content of specific jokes.

    Or even not understand that they are jokes.

    I'm not sure where this comment comes from. I don't think anyone is arguing whether or not these are jokes. Some people just think they're hateful, weirdly spiteful jokes rather than funny ones.

    I've seen the other First 15s, I've seen Mike on stage dozens of times at PAX, as well as almost all the other video content they've put out. All that being said, I don't feel like the argument "this is just Mikes personality" holds much weight. He's usually really pleasant and witty and the times something does piss him off I can generally see his side of it. This felt out of nowhere.

    I will concede that I hadn't taken his condition into consideration. That's the one argument that makes a lot of sense to me.

    On that note, I hope he's feeling better.

    I think you're confusing the idea with the "this is Mike's personality". Those saying it aren't saying it's unpleasant because they are seeing it in a different light. There was nothing unpleasant about it to me. Just him being his funny normal self when dealing with something he doesn't like.

    That doesn't stop him from being a pleasant person but even in talking about games he calls stuff shit and makes fun of the art in things all the time. It's very common of him. When the other guy was replacing him on First 15 they even made jokes about how now he had to hate things and make mean comments because he was taking Mike's place. If that weren't part of Mike's personality why would that joke have even happened?

    Because in the Mike/Jerry dynamic, Mike has a reputation for being the more abrasive one and Tycho is generally more forgiving. It's a classic dynamic and it's a huge part as to why PA has been successful all these years. So when someone gets brought on to fill Mikes shoes, the obvious joke is "I guess I have to be the angry guy," because the other role is already filled.

    But this (to me, because we're apparently just arguing opinions, now) was a departure from Mike's regular formula, in which the things he says are actually witty and his jokes don't seem mean spirited as much as they seem like criticisms of whats actually happening. This time he was just ranting "this is trash," "this shouldn't have even made it to the store," "this was a student project." None of which really even say what he doesn't like about the game. These jokes felt mean and my point is that Mike doesn't normally come off as mean to me.

    Now, you're welcome to reply with "they didn't feel mean to me," and that's cool. I'm not trying to tell you how to feel about this. If anything, you're already out on top because you got something you enjoyed and I got something that just kind of made me feel bad for the developers.

    MKXSig.jpg
  • ArtereisArtereis Registered User regular
    Any joy he may have harbored just drained out of that hole in his abdomen.

    Remington
«1
Sign In or Register to comment.