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Posts

  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    Betsuni wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    Why can't we ever discard a chosen card?

    /hates RNG

    Because Blizzard wants to keep it fun*.

    *Fun is dependent on the person Blizzard chooses.

    Consistency is one of the main goals in deck building; lack of consistency is one of the main hurdles to overcome. Lack of consistency creates a challenge that keeps deck building and games in general more interesting, whereas consistent decks can be annoying to play again: I think that one of the reasons that people hate Pirate Warrior so much is that it's so incredibly consistent, pumping out threats on curve almost every game.

    Basically, to a point, I'm a fan of randomness.


    ElvenshaeLucedes
  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    It's one of the reasons why Zoo is a Warlock deck. Their hero power creates consistency in an archetype (aggro) that requires it.

    Currently DMing: None right now! :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +4/1d8+2 | Spell +4/DC 12
    ShadowhopeElvenshae3clipseDibby
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Game Designer/Stay-at-home Dad Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »


    Pretty much my thoughts.

    Jeez Firebat. Perhaps one of the unrevealed cards is (*FAKE CARD*):

    Attack Steed
    Warlock Spell (Epic)
    2 mana
    "If you have a Beast in hand, deal 2 damage to a minion. If you don't have a Beast, draw a random one from your deck."

    There ya' go, problem solved. Guarantee your Zavus in-hand, and if you already have her, deal some damage. An all-around average to good card depending on your needs.

    Twitch Page
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  • The JudgeThe Judge The Terwilliger CurvesRegistered User regular
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    I'm not saying that it's good. But man, I'm having fun.

    That's my exact feeling on my home-brewed Grimestreet Paladin that I've been playing as my main deck for the last week or so.

    Absolutely nothing I construct is winning with any kind of consistency and my winrate is 1 in 3-ish regardless of what I play. I figured why not have fun with it?

    Yes, there are healing issues and there's not really an effective board clear. And bad draws hurt this deck more than others.

    But hooooo boy do 9/9 Dopplegangsters make it all worthwhile.
    Hand of Protection
    Humility
    Smuggler's Run x2
    Equality
    Friendly Bartender
    GS Informant
    GS Outfitter x2
    Loot Hoarder
    Master Swordsmith
    Acolyte of Pain x2
    GS Smuggler x2
    Hired Gun
    Ironfur Grizzly
    Ancient Brewmaster
    Blessing of Kings
    Consecration
    Sen'jin Sheildmasta
    Spellbreaker
    Blessed Champion
    Dopplegangster x2
    GS Enforcer x2
    Ancient of Blossoms
    GS Protector
    Stormwind Champion

    Assume if there's not a second one that I don't have the pair.

    Last pint: Turmoil / Barley Brown's
    Untappd: TheJudge_PDX
    Shadowhope
  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    Dirty Rat - > Brawl

    Brawling Nether is still a mistake.

    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
    Shadowhope
  • BetsuniBetsuni Insert Disk 4 and Press Any Key to Continue Registered User regular
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    Betsuni wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    Why can't we ever discard a chosen card?

    /hates RNG

    Because Blizzard wants to keep it fun*.

    *Fun is dependent on the person Blizzard chooses.

    Consistency is one of the main goals in deck building; lack of consistency is one of the main hurdles to overcome. Lack of consistency creates a challenge that keeps deck building and games in general more interesting, whereas consistent decks can be annoying to play again: I think that one of the reasons that people hate Pirate Warrior so much is that it's so incredibly consistent, pumping out threats on curve almost every game.

    Basically, to a point, I'm a fan of randomness.


    I am with you and love the randomness. So much so that I crafted Yogg right at launch because I thought it was funny to show the absurdity of randomness. This was before there were complaints of how it ruined the consistency of deck building. Which I also fully understand that frustration.

    Thus my sarcasm in my original post about Blizzard can only make this game fun for one player. But there are times when it seems that Blizzard really doesn't want a player to have any fun playing that day.

    oosik_betsuni.png
    Steam: betsuni7
  • 3clipse3clipse I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Labyrinths are awesome!Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »


    Pretty much my thoughts.

    Jeez Firebat. Perhaps one of the unrevealed cards is (*FAKE CARD*):

    Attack Steed
    Warlock Spell (Epic)
    2 mana
    "If you have a Beast in hand, deal 2 damage to a minion. If you don't have a Beast, draw a random one from your deck."

    There ya' go, problem solved. Guarantee your Zavus in-hand, and if you already have her, deal some damage. An all-around average to good card depending on your needs.

    Adding tutors is not the solution to draw dependency. Not printing so many OP legendaries and generally power-creeping cards is.

    XBL: R3clipse
    Steam: BIRD BIRD KILL IT
    Battle.net: Eclipse#1200
    Julius
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    I hate pirate warrior

    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    Steam profile
  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    edited March 21
    Aegis wrote: »
    Depending on how the card works, it could be 2 mana, pull the exact card you want, if you tailor your deck. If you only put 3 other unique spells in your deck, 2 copies of each, will it ever show doubles? I'm guessing it probably will, so a minion focused Reno deck would get you exactly what you want, provided you haven't drawn it already.

    Discover never shows doubles. If you SECRET AGENT when your opponent has 2 cards in their library, it discovers 2 cards.

    What happens when the 2 of the last 3 cards are the same? If you secret agent a druid who only has shuffled idols in his deck, do you see 1 card, or 3 copies of idol? I haven't been playing at all lately, so my agent is rusty. It really won't hit individual instances of the same card if there are multiple in the deck?

    Atlas in Chains on
  • NeadenNeaden Registered User regular
    Aegis wrote: »
    Depending on how the card works, it could be 2 mana, pull the exact card you want, if you tailor your deck. If you only put 3 other unique spells in your deck, 2 copies of each, will it ever show doubles? I'm guessing it probably will, so a minion focused Reno deck would get you exactly what you want, provided you haven't drawn it already.

    Discover never shows doubles. If you SECRET AGENT when your opponent has 2 cards in their library, it discovers 2 cards.

    What happens when the 2 of the last 3 cards are the same? If you secret agent a druid who only has shuffled idols in his deck, do you see 1 card, or 3 copies of idol?

    1 card.

  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    Neaden wrote: »
    Aegis wrote: »
    Depending on how the card works, it could be 2 mana, pull the exact card you want, if you tailor your deck. If you only put 3 other unique spells in your deck, 2 copies of each, will it ever show doubles? I'm guessing it probably will, so a minion focused Reno deck would get you exactly what you want, provided you haven't drawn it already.

    Discover never shows doubles. If you SECRET AGENT when your opponent has 2 cards in their library, it discovers 2 cards.

    What happens when the 2 of the last 3 cards are the same? If you secret agent a druid who only has shuffled idols in his deck, do you see 1 card, or 3 copies of idol?

    1 card.

    Neat. Then you can run a 7 spell deck and know for certain what you'll get every time. That's the kind of deck building restrictions I like.

    ShadowhopeAegis
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Anyfin Paladin continues to be a lot of fun to play - in this case, in a friendly match (against someone who was admittedly a little distracted).

    My opponent is playing Rogue, and starts by dropping Finley for the Druid hero power. I drop a turn 2 Loot Hoarder, which my opponent takes out with Finley (now 1/1) and goes face with the druid power. Then I make a mistake, and hero power for a recruit. This was a mistake because the 1/1 Finley 1) wasn't going to be putting out much damage and 2) was a perfect target for Finja. Luckily, my opponent goes face with Finley and hero powers to kill the recruit.

    That lets me coin out a turn 4 Finja. My opponent's next turn is to drop a Lotus Agents.

    On turn 5, Finja kills Finley to pull out a Warleader and a Charger. I use my 5 mana to play the other Warleader and the other Charger. One charger kills the Agents, the other goes face, and suddenly I have one hell-of-a-board. Over the next couple turns, my Rogue opponent was able to beat up on them and clear my board (Sap, Backstab, Agent, Shuriken ...), which I pretty much let him do because I wanted all those Murlocs to die so I could bring them back at an opportune moment. I cleared his board again with a Pyro into Consecrate.

    Turn 8, I drop Lightrags into a mostly-empty board (opponent had a Grimestreet Outfitter he'd grabbed off of a Huckster) for the heal. My opponent responds with his own Firerags (9/9 from the Outfitter), which thankfully hits face. I've got Anyfin in my hand, and I know I want to play that onto as clear a board as possible on turn 10, so for my turn 9 I:
    • Go face with Lightrags for the sweet 8 damage
    • Play my last Pyro
    • Equality to wipe the whole board
    • Doomsayer
    • Recruit

    My opponent tries to take advantage of the Doomsayer by playing another Swashburgler, Huckster, and ... Dirty Rat. It pulls ... my other Doomsayer. :D

    Turn 10 gives me an Anyfin with:
    • Finja, 6/6
    • Warleader, 5/4 x2
    • Charger. 6/3 x2
    • SIR FINLEY THE BRAVE, 5/5

    I'd forgotten about Finley! The chargers reduce my opponent to low single-digit life, and he basically Hammer of Wrath's himself to end the game.

    So much fin with this deck.

    omgbfz5lzi1s.png
    Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
    BetsuniShadowhope
  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited March 21
    I am going to miss Anyfin Paladin.

    But like, it's a Control Paladin shell that's partially midrange on account of running a Combo finisher that adds early board presence, and then has an Actual Win Condition™. So of course I like it.

    Also you get to play with Finja.

    Aegis on
    Currently DMing: None right now! :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +4/1d8+2 | Spell +4/DC 12
    ElvenshaeGrobian
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    ... I ... I just realized that Anyfin's going away.

    Well, shit. That sucks.

    omgbfz5lzi1s.png
    Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
    MMMig
  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    I'm so sorry :(

    Currently DMing: None right now! :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +4/1d8+2 | Spell +4/DC 12
  • LucedesLucedes Yahaha! Registered User regular
    anyfin can still happen in Wild after the expansion.

    (unlike force of nature) (RIP)

    Allegiances change, Virgil. Call it betrayal if you want, I call it playing Phalla.
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat floof Registered User regular
    Even if they unnerfed some classic/basic cards and rotated them out, like molten giant, I still wouldn't want force reverted. You can have lore and keeper back, but forceroar stays with undertaker in the bin.

    steam_sig.png
    David_T wrote: »
    Rule 7 through 46 concerns the sale of cucumbers within the EU.
    Elvenshae
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Game Designer/Stay-at-home Dad Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Had the "Play 50 Shaman cards" quest and looked up what Shaman decks I had available. Crusher Shaman was it.

    So I proceeded to go 2-5 with it. Jade Golems laugh at huge minions w/resurrection on them. Especially when you can get the same thing or better for 1 mana.

    Yup, this meta still sucks.

    Twitch Page
    Hearthstone: mncdover#1994
    Nintendo Network ID: MNC.Dover
    3DS: 1934-0659-5183
    Steam ID
    envoy1Dibby
  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    Just had one of the dirtiest Arena games of my life (at 4:1). it doesn't even matter what my opponent played, because my curve was:
    - Small Time Buccaneer
    - Jade Claws
    - Flame Juggler
    - Flamewreathed Faceless
    - Argent Horserider
    - Aya
    - Jade Lightning (to the face for lethal)

    https://hsreplay.net/replay/eoyCZxZDb2dknGi9UBxxFk

    IBHz8.png1dUCx.png
    ShadowhopeElvenshaekimeThe Escape GoatMNC Dover
  • Dis'Dis' Registered User regular
    Betsuni wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    Why can't we ever discard a chosen card?

    /hates RNG

    Because Blizzard wants to keep it fun*.

    *Fun is dependent on the person Blizzard chooses.

    I think this is one of the times Blizzard wanting to keep the interface simple and gameplay fluid is a justifiable design choice:
    Picking a card to discard introduces another lengthy decision point
    The chance of misclicking a discard is major feelsbad.

    Elvenshae
  • Metal JaredMetal Jared Mulligan Wizard Rhode IslandRegistered User regular
    Dis' wrote: »
    Betsuni wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    Why can't we ever discard a chosen card?

    /hates RNG

    Because Blizzard wants to keep it fun*.

    *Fun is dependent on the person Blizzard chooses.

    I think this is one of the times Blizzard wanting to keep the interface simple and gameplay fluid is a justifiable design choice:
    Picking a card to discard introduces another lengthy decision point
    The chance of misclicking a discard is major feelsbad.

    Because if you got to chose the cards being discarded you'd have to nerf the cards with the discard mechanic. It would allow you to discard cards that are worthless in your current matchup (slow things against agro, or small things against control) and still get the extra value of inherent in having discard be part of the cost.

    Also if you hate RNG you're playing the wrong game. You're probably playing the wrong genre of game actually, as all cards games of this sort are very draw RNG dependent.

    BattleTag: MetalJared#1756
    PSN: SoulCrusherJared
    Elvenshae3clipse
  • 3clipse3clipse I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Labyrinths are awesome!Registered User regular
    Cards that gave any kind of advantage for discarding could not exist if you could choose what to discard.

    XBL: R3clipse
    Steam: BIRD BIRD KILL IT
    Battle.net: Eclipse#1200
    DibbyMetal JaredschussMMMigElvenshaejgeisdarunia106
  • DibbyDibby Here come bees! Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Had the "Play 50 Shaman cards" quest and looked up what Shaman decks I had available. Crusher Shaman was it.

    So I proceeded to go 2-5 with it. Jade Golems laugh at huge minions w/resurrection on them. Especially when you can get the same thing or better for 1 mana.

    Yup, this meta still sucks.

    No fun decks allowed!

    Only Pirates/Jade/Kazakus!!!

    NO FUN ALLOWED.

    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
    BetsunidjFindusMNC DoverMMMigLucedes
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat floof Registered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    Cards that gave any kind of advantage for discarding could not exist if you could choose what to discard.

    That's not true at all? You just have to make those payoff cards not insanely broken like a free 3/3. You can make it so that it automatically uses some of your mana when you discard it, at a discount. Like this card, that normally costs 3 but if you discard it you can cast it for 1:
    http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=409908

    That's hardly a broken card, and it had upside for being discarded. Most minions have a madness cost of >=2 though, which is probably the key factor to it not being broken.
    Dis' wrote: »
    Betsuni wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    Why can't we ever discard a chosen card?

    /hates RNG

    Because Blizzard wants to keep it fun*.

    *Fun is dependent on the person Blizzard chooses.

    I think this is one of the times Blizzard wanting to keep the interface simple and gameplay fluid is a justifiable design choice:
    Picking a card to discard introduces another lengthy decision point
    The chance of misclicking a discard is major feelsbad.

    Because if you got to chose the cards being discarded you'd have to nerf the cards with the discard mechanic. It would allow you to discard cards that are worthless in your current matchup (slow things against agro, or small things against control) and still get the extra value of inherent in having discard be part of the cost.

    Also if you hate RNG you're playing the wrong game. You're probably playing the wrong genre of game actually, as all cards games of this sort are very draw RNG dependent.

    You wouldn't need to nerf the cards with the discard mechanic at all. Easy solutions:
    1. Wait until silverware golem rotates, then let wild deal with it because it's wild.
    2. Give discard mechanics to a non-warlock class (I think priest would be the best fit). They can't put silverware golem in their deck, do no problemo!

    steam_sig.png
    David_T wrote: »
    Rule 7 through 46 concerns the sale of cucumbers within the EU.
    kimeCromarty
  • Metal JaredMetal Jared Mulligan Wizard Rhode IslandRegistered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    Cards that gave any kind of advantage for discarding could not exist if you could choose what to discard.

    That's not true at all? You just have to make those payoff cards not insanely broken like a free 3/3. You can make it so that it automatically uses some of your mana when you discard it, at a discount. Like this card, that normally costs 3 but if you discard it you can cast it for 1:
    http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=409908

    That's hardly a broken card, and it had upside for being discarded. Most minions have a madness cost of >=2 though, which is probably the key factor to it not being broken.
    Dis' wrote: »
    Betsuni wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    Why can't we ever discard a chosen card?

    /hates RNG

    Because Blizzard wants to keep it fun*.

    *Fun is dependent on the person Blizzard chooses.

    I think this is one of the times Blizzard wanting to keep the interface simple and gameplay fluid is a justifiable design choice:
    Picking a card to discard introduces another lengthy decision point
    The chance of misclicking a discard is major feelsbad.

    Because if you got to chose the cards being discarded you'd have to nerf the cards with the discard mechanic. It would allow you to discard cards that are worthless in your current matchup (slow things against agro, or small things against control) and still get the extra value of inherent in having discard be part of the cost.

    Also if you hate RNG you're playing the wrong game. You're probably playing the wrong genre of game actually, as all cards games of this sort are very draw RNG dependent.

    You wouldn't need to nerf the cards with the discard mechanic at all. Easy solutions:
    1. Wait until silverware golem rotates, then let wild deal with it because it's wild.
    2. Give discard mechanics to a non-warlock class (I think priest would be the best fit). They can't put silverware golem in their deck, do no problemo!

    You do understand that part of the COST of the card you're playing is that you need to discard a random card. Because the discard is random it allows for the general 'cost' of discarding to be higher which allows the benefit to be higher. If you significantly reduce the 'cost' of discarding (by being able to choose the discarded card) you need to significantly reduce the benefit that is generated from the discard which makes the whole mechanic worthless. You can't make soulfire cost 1 and deal 4 damage if you significantly reduce the cost of the discard. The other one mana deal damage spells are significantly worse (Arcane missles deal 3 and are totally random, lightning bolt does 3 damage and overloads for 1, Arcane shot does 2 damage etc). As you can see since the cost of 'discarding a random card' is much higher than the rest of the drawbacks for 1 mana deal damage cards the effect can be much higher.

    Get the reasoning now?

    BattleTag: MetalJared#1756
    PSN: SoulCrusherJared
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat floof Registered User regular
    Well yeah, of course you don't make soulfire choosing discard, that's just a straight buff to a card that's already been nerfed. So you print a card that's 1 mana, choose and discard a card: deal 4 damage to a minion.

    All these arguments are like "our current cards wouldn't work right with that!" to which I respond "yeah, good thing they release new cards."

    steam_sig.png
    David_T wrote: »
    Rule 7 through 46 concerns the sale of cucumbers within the EU.
    Lucedes
  • Metal JaredMetal Jared Mulligan Wizard Rhode IslandRegistered User regular
    Well yeah, of course you don't make soulfire choosing discard, that's just a straight buff to a card that's already been nerfed. So you print a card that's 1 mana, choose and discard a card: deal 4 damage to a minion.

    All these arguments are like "our current cards wouldn't work right with that!" to which I respond "yeah, good thing they release new cards."

    So you're thinking that choosing to discard a card is worth 2 mana? Yeah I don't think so. That card is beyond broken. Discarding a random card is worth something like 2 mana (soulfire vs. shadowbolt) You need to nerf your card again.

    BattleTag: MetalJared#1756
    PSN: SoulCrusherJared
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat floof Registered User regular
    Well yeah, of course you don't make soulfire choosing discard, that's just a straight buff to a card that's already been nerfed. So you print a card that's 1 mana, choose and discard a card: deal 4 damage to a minion.

    All these arguments are like "our current cards wouldn't work right with that!" to which I respond "yeah, good thing they release new cards."

    So you're thinking that choosing to discard a card is worth 2 mana? Yeah I don't think so. That card is beyond broken. Discarding a random card is worth something like 2 mana (soulfire vs. shadowbolt) You need to nerf your card again.

    In the context of warlock, probably yeah, because their hero power is broken and makes card disadvantage something you never need to build your deck around. Give that to any other class and you'll feel the burn of discarding that card a lot more and the card will feel a lot more balanced.

    steam_sig.png
    David_T wrote: »
    Rule 7 through 46 concerns the sale of cucumbers within the EU.
  • 3clipse3clipse I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Labyrinths are awesome!Registered User regular
    Well yeah, of course you don't make soulfire choosing discard, that's just a straight buff to a card that's already been nerfed. So you print a card that's 1 mana, choose and discard a card: deal 4 damage to a minion.

    All these arguments are like "our current cards wouldn't work right with that!" to which I respond "yeah, good thing they release new cards."

    So you're thinking that choosing to discard a card is worth 2 mana? Yeah I don't think so. That card is beyond broken. Discarding a random card is worth something like 2 mana (soulfire vs. shadowbolt) You need to nerf your card again.

    In the context of warlock, probably yeah, because their hero power is broken and makes card disadvantage something you never need to build your deck around. Give that to any other class and you'll feel the burn of discarding that card a lot more and the card will feel a lot more balanced.

    This actually gets at what I think is one of the core problems affecting the game: hero powers are not, and have never been, balanced in terms of relative power level.

    XBL: R3clipse
    Steam: BIRD BIRD KILL IT
    Battle.net: Eclipse#1200
    Elvenshae
  • Metal JaredMetal Jared Mulligan Wizard Rhode IslandRegistered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    Well yeah, of course you don't make soulfire choosing discard, that's just a straight buff to a card that's already been nerfed. So you print a card that's 1 mana, choose and discard a card: deal 4 damage to a minion.

    All these arguments are like "our current cards wouldn't work right with that!" to which I respond "yeah, good thing they release new cards."

    So you're thinking that choosing to discard a card is worth 2 mana? Yeah I don't think so. That card is beyond broken. Discarding a random card is worth something like 2 mana (soulfire vs. shadowbolt) You need to nerf your card again.

    In the context of warlock, probably yeah, because their hero power is broken and makes card disadvantage something you never need to build your deck around. Give that to any other class and you'll feel the burn of discarding that card a lot more and the card will feel a lot more balanced.

    This actually gets at what I think is one of the core problems affecting the game: hero powers are not, and have never been, balanced in terms of relative power level.

    Wait what? You mean turn 2 tempo heal face for 0 isn't as balanced as any of the other hero powers that can always do something relevant?

    BattleTag: MetalJared#1756
    PSN: SoulCrusherJared
    Elvenshae
  • 3clipse3clipse I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Labyrinths are awesome!Registered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    Well yeah, of course you don't make soulfire choosing discard, that's just a straight buff to a card that's already been nerfed. So you print a card that's 1 mana, choose and discard a card: deal 4 damage to a minion.

    All these arguments are like "our current cards wouldn't work right with that!" to which I respond "yeah, good thing they release new cards."

    So you're thinking that choosing to discard a card is worth 2 mana? Yeah I don't think so. That card is beyond broken. Discarding a random card is worth something like 2 mana (soulfire vs. shadowbolt) You need to nerf your card again.

    In the context of warlock, probably yeah, because their hero power is broken and makes card disadvantage something you never need to build your deck around. Give that to any other class and you'll feel the burn of discarding that card a lot more and the card will feel a lot more balanced.

    This actually gets at what I think is one of the core problems affecting the game: hero powers are not, and have never been, balanced in terms of relative power level.

    Wait what? You mean turn 2 tempo heal face for 0 isn't as balanced as any of the other hero powers that can always do something relevant?

    I'd argue Rogue has the shittiest one, actually. With the Blade Flurry nerf there's no real reason to play Deadly Poison, so you basically have a worse version of Shapeshift, which is already very meh as hero powers go.

    XBL: R3clipse
    Steam: BIRD BIRD KILL IT
    Battle.net: Eclipse#1200
  • Metal JaredMetal Jared Mulligan Wizard Rhode IslandRegistered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    Well yeah, of course you don't make soulfire choosing discard, that's just a straight buff to a card that's already been nerfed. So you print a card that's 1 mana, choose and discard a card: deal 4 damage to a minion.

    All these arguments are like "our current cards wouldn't work right with that!" to which I respond "yeah, good thing they release new cards."

    So you're thinking that choosing to discard a card is worth 2 mana? Yeah I don't think so. That card is beyond broken. Discarding a random card is worth something like 2 mana (soulfire vs. shadowbolt) You need to nerf your card again.

    In the context of warlock, probably yeah, because their hero power is broken and makes card disadvantage something you never need to build your deck around. Give that to any other class and you'll feel the burn of discarding that card a lot more and the card will feel a lot more balanced.

    This actually gets at what I think is one of the core problems affecting the game: hero powers are not, and have never been, balanced in terms of relative power level.

    Wait what? You mean turn 2 tempo heal face for 0 isn't as balanced as any of the other hero powers that can always do something relevant?

    I'd argue Rogue has the shittiest one, actually. With the Blade Flurry nerf there's no real reason to play Deadly Poison, so you basically have a worse version of Shapeshift, which is already very meh as hero powers go.

    At least you can use it to punch face and do a damage and kill a one health creature. You can actually use it and have an effect on turn two. All of the powers can except for Priest. There are many times during the game where priest's hero power is literally worthless. Rogue has a weapon problem and a weapon buff problem, but that doesn't mean their hero power is bad (check arena, it's really good in arena)

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  • BreakfastPMBreakfastPM Registered User regular
    edited March 21
    3clipse wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    Well yeah, of course you don't make soulfire choosing discard, that's just a straight buff to a card that's already been nerfed. So you print a card that's 1 mana, choose and discard a card: deal 4 damage to a minion.

    All these arguments are like "our current cards wouldn't work right with that!" to which I respond "yeah, good thing they release new cards."

    So you're thinking that choosing to discard a card is worth 2 mana? Yeah I don't think so. That card is beyond broken. Discarding a random card is worth something like 2 mana (soulfire vs. shadowbolt) You need to nerf your card again.

    In the context of warlock, probably yeah, because their hero power is broken and makes card disadvantage something you never need to build your deck around. Give that to any other class and you'll feel the burn of discarding that card a lot more and the card will feel a lot more balanced.

    This actually gets at what I think is one of the core problems affecting the game: hero powers are not, and have never been, balanced in terms of relative power level.

    Wait what? You mean turn 2 tempo heal face for 0 isn't as balanced as any of the other hero powers that can always do something relevant?

    I'd argue Rogue has the shittiest one, actually. With the Blade Flurry nerf there's no real reason to play Deadly Poison, so you basically have a worse version of Shapeshift, which is already very meh as hero powers go.

    At least you can use it to punch face and do a damage and kill a one health creature. You can actually use it and have an effect on turn two. All of the powers can except for Priest. There are many times during the game where priest's hero power is literally worthless. Rogue has a weapon problem and a weapon buff problem, but that doesn't mean their hero power is bad (check arena, it's really good in arena)

    Going to have to watch out for Raza-N'Zoth-Amara Priest when the expansion drops. (I'm kind of mad that I'll have to craft N'Zoth but I probably should have done that awhile ago and at least I'll have him for a year?)

    BreakfastPM on
  • SeGaTaiSeGaTai Registered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    Well yeah, of course you don't make soulfire choosing discard, that's just a straight buff to a card that's already been nerfed. So you print a card that's 1 mana, choose and discard a card: deal 4 damage to a minion.

    All these arguments are like "our current cards wouldn't work right with that!" to which I respond "yeah, good thing they release new cards."

    So you're thinking that choosing to discard a card is worth 2 mana? Yeah I don't think so. That card is beyond broken. Discarding a random card is worth something like 2 mana (soulfire vs. shadowbolt) You need to nerf your card again.

    In the context of warlock, probably yeah, because their hero power is broken and makes card disadvantage something you never need to build your deck around. Give that to any other class and you'll feel the burn of discarding that card a lot more and the card will feel a lot more balanced.

    This actually gets at what I think is one of the core problems affecting the game: hero powers are not, and have never been, balanced in terms of relative power level.

    Wait what? You mean turn 2 tempo heal face for 0 isn't as balanced as any of the other hero powers that can always do something relevant?

    I'd argue Rogue has the shittiest one, actually. With the Blade Flurry nerf there's no real reason to play Deadly Poison, so you basically have a worse version of Shapeshift, which is already very meh as hero powers go.

    At least you can use it to punch face and do a damage and kill a one health creature. You can actually use it and have an effect on turn two. All of the powers can except for Priest. There are many times during the game where priest's hero power is literally worthless. Rogue has a weapon problem and a weapon buff problem, but that doesn't mean their hero power is bad (check arena, it's really good in arena)

    You also had a guaranteed weapon for small time buccaneers, which was great until they gave shaman a bunch of cheap weapons and stb had to be nerfed, blame shamans, follow the money

    PSN SeGaTai
    Metal Jared
  • 3clipse3clipse I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Labyrinths are awesome!Registered User regular
    SeGaTai wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    Well yeah, of course you don't make soulfire choosing discard, that's just a straight buff to a card that's already been nerfed. So you print a card that's 1 mana, choose and discard a card: deal 4 damage to a minion.

    All these arguments are like "our current cards wouldn't work right with that!" to which I respond "yeah, good thing they release new cards."

    So you're thinking that choosing to discard a card is worth 2 mana? Yeah I don't think so. That card is beyond broken. Discarding a random card is worth something like 2 mana (soulfire vs. shadowbolt) You need to nerf your card again.

    In the context of warlock, probably yeah, because their hero power is broken and makes card disadvantage something you never need to build your deck around. Give that to any other class and you'll feel the burn of discarding that card a lot more and the card will feel a lot more balanced.

    This actually gets at what I think is one of the core problems affecting the game: hero powers are not, and have never been, balanced in terms of relative power level.

    Wait what? You mean turn 2 tempo heal face for 0 isn't as balanced as any of the other hero powers that can always do something relevant?

    I'd argue Rogue has the shittiest one, actually. With the Blade Flurry nerf there's no real reason to play Deadly Poison, so you basically have a worse version of Shapeshift, which is already very meh as hero powers go.

    At least you can use it to punch face and do a damage and kill a one health creature. You can actually use it and have an effect on turn two. All of the powers can except for Priest. There are many times during the game where priest's hero power is literally worthless. Rogue has a weapon problem and a weapon buff problem, but that doesn't mean their hero power is bad (check arena, it's really good in arena)

    You also had a guaranteed weapon for small time buccaneers, which was great until they gave shaman a bunch of cheap weapons and stb had to be nerfed, blame shamans, follow the money

    #WakeUpVictimsOfPolymorph

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  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat floof Registered User regular
    Priest's hero power being bad on 2 has never actually been that big a problem, because it's a class that usually played to win from behind anyway. Like, in all scenarios outside of fatigue warrior's hero power is worse than priest's because it can't effect the board without using a card; every other hero power (aside from hunter, which at least has a game plan) can provide some sort of card advantage. Pings smooth out trades and desk with x/1s without using a card, paladin and shaman give you free board presence, and priest lets you grind more value out of your beefy dudes by healing them back up. Warrior is just health. Which is part of why it's been the worst arena class for a long while.

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    David_T wrote: »
    Rule 7 through 46 concerns the sale of cucumbers within the EU.
  • DibbyDibby Here come bees! Registered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    Well yeah, of course you don't make soulfire choosing discard, that's just a straight buff to a card that's already been nerfed. So you print a card that's 1 mana, choose and discard a card: deal 4 damage to a minion.

    All these arguments are like "our current cards wouldn't work right with that!" to which I respond "yeah, good thing they release new cards."

    So you're thinking that choosing to discard a card is worth 2 mana? Yeah I don't think so. That card is beyond broken. Discarding a random card is worth something like 2 mana (soulfire vs. shadowbolt) You need to nerf your card again.

    In the context of warlock, probably yeah, because their hero power is broken and makes card disadvantage something you never need to build your deck around. Give that to any other class and you'll feel the burn of discarding that card a lot more and the card will feel a lot more balanced.

    This actually gets at what I think is one of the core problems affecting the game: hero powers are not, and have never been, balanced in terms of relative power level.

    Wait what? You mean turn 2 tempo heal face for 0 isn't as balanced as any of the other hero powers that can always do something relevant?

    I'd argue Rogue has the shittiest one, actually. With the Blade Flurry nerf there's no real reason to play Deadly Poison, so you basically have a worse version of Shapeshift, which is already very meh as hero powers go.

    Ughhhh Deadly Poison has its own share of problems.

    So like, DP as a card is actually really good. It's Fiery War Axe! ...But it's a Turn 3 Fiery War Axe unless you have a coin to burn. But even then, bare minimum, it's still a 3 mana Fiery War Axe. And yeah sure you can double stack it and get an Arcanite Reaper, sure, whatever.

    But maybe the real problem with DP is that it hamstrings potential weapon designs. No future Rogue weapon can exceed 3 attack. Ever. Because if you go even up to 4, DP makes that weapon have 6 attack. And then you slap a second DP on there and WHOOPS now it's 8 attack. And maybe that's not too different from Pirate Warrior having access to 4 separate Upgrades. I dunno. But fact of the matter is that we have yet to see a Rogue weapon actually go above 3 for that reason. There's Perdition's Blade as a 3 mana 2/2, there's Cogmaster's Wrench as a 3 mana 1/3 (that's sometimes a 3/3), there's Poisoned Blade as a 4 mana 1/3 but lol Poisoned Blade, aaaand then there's Assassin's Blade as a 5 mana 3/4.

    They're just too damn afraid to print anything above 3 attack because DP exists. Even if it's not seeing use currently.

    I dunno, man. Would it be crazy to make it a 0 mana spell that only works on Hero Power? You could straight up have a Fiery War Axe at that point and actually give Rogue early board control. AND it would allow for more varied weapon design. Hmm.

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  • 3clipse3clipse I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Labyrinths are awesome!Registered User regular
    Priest's hero power being bad on 2 has never actually been that big a problem, because it's a class that usually played to win from behind anyway. Like, in all scenarios outside of fatigue warrior's hero power is worse than priest's because it can't effect the board without using a card; every other hero power (aside from hunter, which at least has a game plan) can provide some sort of card advantage. Pings smooth out trades and desk with x/1s without using a card, paladin and shaman give you free board presence, and priest lets you grind more value out of your beefy dudes by healing them back up. Warrior is just health. Which is part of why it's been the worst arena class for a long while.

    I'd chock that more up to reliance on epics (shield slam, brawl) or very specific deck archetypes, coupled with a lot of weak class cards (outside of Fucking Win Asscheeks) in the common/basic slot.

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  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat floof Registered User regular
    If we're talking about balancing things, giving another class fiery win axe sounds like an awful idea. Especially the class that already has backstab and sap.
    3clipse wrote: »
    Priest's hero power being bad on 2 has never actually been that big a problem, because it's a class that usually played to win from behind anyway. Like, in all scenarios outside of fatigue warrior's hero power is worse than priest's because it can't effect the board without using a card; every other hero power (aside from hunter, which at least has a game plan) can provide some sort of card advantage. Pings smooth out trades and desk with x/1s without using a card, paladin and shaman give you free board presence, and priest lets you grind more value out of your beefy dudes by healing them back up. Warrior is just health. Which is part of why it's been the worst arena class for a long while.

    I'd chock that more up to reliance on epics (shield slam, brawl) or very specific deck archetypes, coupled with a lot of weak class cards (outside of Fucking Win Asscheeks) in the common/basic slot.

    That's certainly a part of it, but even LoE's effort of adding in the bomb-ass commons of fierce monkey and obsidian destroyer didn't help that much. I think it's got more to do with the hero power.

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    David_T wrote: »
    Rule 7 through 46 concerns the sale of cucumbers within the EU.
  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    Would someone who's bored/willing to do the dirty work go through TGT, LOE, and BRM and post all the cards relevant to the meta that are rotating out? I might do it later today if I finish my work, just for reference.

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