Shaman weren't unplayable. People just didn't count aggro shaman as being a good deck "because".
"Because" it was solely a tournament deck designed to hit one or two matchups and was <45% against almost every other deck at the time.
Shaman was consistently the worst class throughout 2015, and although I wouldn't say they were in quite as bad a position as Hunter has been since MSoG, they were there for much longer.
If it doesn't work with innervate it's a bad card and they shouldn't have printed it.
On the contrary, if it worked with innervate it would be a stupid blowout high-risk, high-reward card and people would rightfully hate it.
As it is, in the early and mid game it's not all that great, but late game you're paying 7 to put 14 damage on the board in return for possibly having a slower next turn. If your opponent does clear on their turn, you get the mana back on your next turn. If they don't (and we assume you'd run Savage Roar in a deck running this card for obvious reasons), they're in a risky position.
The biggest problem is that Jade Druid exists and will likely be better. Fun police etc. etc.
If it doesn't work with innervate it's a bad card and they shouldn't have printed it.
On the contrary, if it worked with innervate it would be a stupid blowout high-risk, high-reward card and people would rightfully hate it.
As it is, in the early and mid game it's not all that great, but late game you're paying 7 to put 14 damage on the board in return for possibly having a slower next turn. If your opponent does clear on their turn, you get the mana back on your next turn. If they don't (and we assume you'd run Savage Roar in a deck running this card for obvious reasons), they're in a risky position.
The biggest problem is that Jade Druid exists and will likely be better. Fun police etc. etc.
If it's too good they shouldn't have printed it either, but this is a bad card.
It's ramp so it's not garbage, but it's just a power creeped force of nature.
3DS: 2234-8122-8398 | Battle.net (EU): Ladi#2485
0
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
If it doesn't work with innervate it's a bad card and they shouldn't have printed it.
On the contrary, if it worked with innervate it would be a stupid blowout high-risk, high-reward card and people would rightfully hate it.
As it is, in the early and mid game it's not all that great, but late game you're paying 7 to put 14 damage on the board in return for possibly having a slower next turn. If your opponent does clear on their turn, you get the mana back on your next turn. If they don't (and we assume you'd run Savage Roar in a deck running this card for obvious reasons), they're in a risky position.
The biggest problem is that Jade Druid exists and will likely be better. Fun police etc. etc.
It's not really a blowout except against Mass Dispel (which no one plays) and Devolve, which is only in 1 class. The treants give you mana crystals when you die. I think a Druid would gladly take their board getting wiped by coin + Volcanic Potion to go up to 8 mana on turn 3.
If it doesn't work with innervate it's a bad card and they shouldn't have printed it.
On the contrary, if it worked with innervate it would be a stupid blowout high-risk, high-reward card and people would rightfully hate it.
As it is, in the early and mid game it's not all that great, but late game you're paying 7 to put 14 damage on the board in return for possibly having a slower next turn. If your opponent does clear on their turn, you get the mana back on your next turn. If they don't (and we assume you'd run Savage Roar in a deck running this card for obvious reasons), they're in a risky position.
The biggest problem is that Jade Druid exists and will likely be better. Fun police etc. etc.
If it's too good they shouldn't have printed it either, but this is a bad card.
It's ramp so it's not garbage, but it's just a power creeped force of nature.
It's not ramp? Unless I misunderstood, it doesn't give you any extra mana crystals.
If it doesn't work with innervate it's a bad card and they shouldn't have printed it.
On the contrary, if it worked with innervate it would be a stupid blowout high-risk, high-reward card and people would rightfully hate it.
As it is, in the early and mid game it's not all that great, but late game you're paying 7 to put 14 damage on the board in return for possibly having a slower next turn. If your opponent does clear on their turn, you get the mana back on your next turn. If they don't (and we assume you'd run Savage Roar in a deck running this card for obvious reasons), they're in a risky position.
The biggest problem is that Jade Druid exists and will likely be better. Fun police etc. etc.
If it's too good they shouldn't have printed it either, but this is a bad card.
It's ramp so it's not garbage, but it's just a power creeped force of nature.
It's not ramp? Unless I misunderstood, it doesn't give you any extra mana crystals.
I think he's qualifying it as ramp because of innervate. If you double innervate play that card, it's super high ramp once those trees die.
If it doesn't work with innervate it's a bad card and they shouldn't have printed it.
On the contrary, if it worked with innervate it would be a stupid blowout high-risk, high-reward card and people would rightfully hate it.
As it is, in the early and mid game it's not all that great, but late game you're paying 7 to put 14 damage on the board in return for possibly having a slower next turn. If your opponent does clear on their turn, you get the mana back on your next turn. If they don't (and we assume you'd run Savage Roar in a deck running this card for obvious reasons), they're in a risky position.
The biggest problem is that Jade Druid exists and will likely be better. Fun police etc. etc.
If it's too good they shouldn't have printed it either, but this is a bad card.
It's ramp so it's not garbage, but it's just a power creeped force of nature.
It's not ramp? Unless I misunderstood, it doesn't give you any extra mana crystals.
Yeah it's a card for like, Token Druid.
They mentioned on the stream pairing it with Mark of the Lotus/Power of the Wild and/or Soul of the Forest.
In that regard it seems pretty good? But I'm still not 100% sold on it. I dunno... The effect does seem strong, but it also leaves you with nothing to do the next turn(s), but there's also no downside because of the mana refund (unless Mass Dispel/Devolve).
If it doesn't work with innervate it's a bad card and they shouldn't have printed it.
On the contrary, if it worked with innervate it would be a stupid blowout high-risk, high-reward card and people would rightfully hate it.
As it is, in the early and mid game it's not all that great, but late game you're paying 7 to put 14 damage on the board in return for possibly having a slower next turn. If your opponent does clear on their turn, you get the mana back on your next turn. If they don't (and we assume you'd run Savage Roar in a deck running this card for obvious reasons), they're in a risky position.
The biggest problem is that Jade Druid exists and will likely be better. Fun police etc. etc.
If it's too good they shouldn't have printed it either, but this is a bad card.
It's ramp so it's not garbage, but it's just a power creeped force of nature.
It's not ramp? Unless I misunderstood, it doesn't give you any extra mana crystals.
I think he's qualifying it as ramp because of innervate. If you double innervate play that card, it's super high ramp once those trees die.
If it doesn't work with innervate it's a bad card and they shouldn't have printed it.
On the contrary, if it worked with innervate it would be a stupid blowout high-risk, high-reward card and people would rightfully hate it.
As it is, in the early and mid game it's not all that great, but late game you're paying 7 to put 14 damage on the board in return for possibly having a slower next turn. If your opponent does clear on their turn, you get the mana back on your next turn. If they don't (and we assume you'd run Savage Roar in a deck running this card for obvious reasons), they're in a risky position.
The biggest problem is that Jade Druid exists and will likely be better. Fun police etc. etc.
If it's too good they shouldn't have printed it either, but this is a bad card.
It's ramp so it's not garbage, but it's just a power creeped force of nature.
It's not ramp? Unless I misunderstood, it doesn't give you any extra mana crystals.
I think he's qualifying it as ramp because of innervate. If you double innervate play that card, it's super high ramp once those trees die.
But innervate doesn't work with it....
Does it not? I haven't been following the conversation lol. Why wouldn't it?
If it doesn't work with innervate it's a bad card and they shouldn't have printed it.
On the contrary, if it worked with innervate it would be a stupid blowout high-risk, high-reward card and people would rightfully hate it.
As it is, in the early and mid game it's not all that great, but late game you're paying 7 to put 14 damage on the board in return for possibly having a slower next turn. If your opponent does clear on their turn, you get the mana back on your next turn. If they don't (and we assume you'd run Savage Roar in a deck running this card for obvious reasons), they're in a risky position.
The biggest problem is that Jade Druid exists and will likely be better. Fun police etc. etc.
If it's too good they shouldn't have printed it either, but this is a bad card.
It's ramp so it's not garbage, but it's just a power creeped force of nature.
It's not ramp? Unless I misunderstood, it doesn't give you any extra mana crystals.
I think he's qualifying it as ramp because of innervate. If you double innervate play that card, it's super high ramp once those trees die.
But innervate doesn't work with it....
Does it not? I haven't been following the conversation lol. Why wouldn't it?
Very good question! "Because Blizzard said so" appears to be the answer. "Because what if that 1/30 chance you get that with double-innervate on turn one! It may not be fun for your opponent" is another guessed reason.
If it doesn't work with innervate it's a bad card and they shouldn't have printed it.
On the contrary, if it worked with innervate it would be a stupid blowout high-risk, high-reward card and people would rightfully hate it.
As it is, in the early and mid game it's not all that great, but late game you're paying 7 to put 14 damage on the board in return for possibly having a slower next turn. If your opponent does clear on their turn, you get the mana back on your next turn. If they don't (and we assume you'd run Savage Roar in a deck running this card for obvious reasons), they're in a risky position.
The biggest problem is that Jade Druid exists and will likely be better. Fun police etc. etc.
If it's too good they shouldn't have printed it either, but this is a bad card.
It's ramp so it's not garbage, but it's just a power creeped force of nature.
It's not ramp? Unless I misunderstood, it doesn't give you any extra mana crystals.
I think he's qualifying it as ramp because of innervate. If you double innervate play that card, it's super high ramp once those trees die.
But innervate doesn't work with it....
Does it not? I haven't been following the conversation lol. Why wouldn't it?
Very good question! "Because Blizzard said so" appears to be the answer. "Because what if that 1/30 chance you get that with double-innervate on turn one! It may not be fun for your opponent" is another guessed reason.
I am disappointed
Haha, well, I think less of that and more so that it... goes against the design of the card? I mean, yes that, but that's not the primary reason.
It's supposed to be a way to convert your mana into minions, right? Not ramp. And if you could Innervate it out, then it becomes ramp as well.
Or maybe we're all overthinking it and the reason is simply that it's permanent mana crystals only because that's also how Wild Growth on 10 works, or something. SHRUG.
Are there any other mana crystal mechanics that work/don't work with temporary mana crystals? Or is it just Wild Growth/Living Mana?
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
0
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
edited March 2017
If you discount a Felguard to zero and play it while having temporary mana crystals, it destroys the permanent mana crystal you have and leaves them alone.
Edit: Alternatively, for a less obscure interaction, kill off a Darnassus Aspirant you control after having played Innervate.
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
edited March 2017
I think the card is great for two specific deck types: Aggro Druid and Control Druid. And for the same reason: Living Mana allows the Druid to harness what is otherwise a common situation, namely, surplus mana crystals. Aggro decks end up with surplus mana in the late game as a sideeffect of running out of cards and playing a typically lower curve deck. Rather than tackle that problem with card draw, Living Mana solves the problem the other way: by turning the surplus mana that would otherwise be wasted into board presence. Same deal with Control: you just have surplus mana as a result of playing the reactive game. If you then encounter a situation where, I don't need to react to anything, boom, instant board presence. And in both scenarios, it acts as an immediate threat, since even at 5 mana, you're generating 10 attack power out of thin air.
Midrange is probably the deck that's not going to care about the card, generally because they're wanting a smooth ramp in order to play their generally good quality creatures on curve. Living Mana, by contrast, fucks up that gameplan and makes their plays more awkward than in other decks.
Ugh. Pavel down, b787 down. Whom should I root for now?
Frozen seems nice
+2
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
Incidentally: did they change the voting from MSOG to Un'Goro packs?
Cause yesterday I logged in to 52 packs that I can't open, and can't remember where that last one came from. 50 from the preorder and 1 from the recent Brawl.
Would you play a spell that says "5 mana, 7 overload, put 7 2/2s onto your board"?
If it included the proviso that those minions gain "Deathrattle: unlock an Overloaded mana crystal?" Yeah, maybe.
+1
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
It's not a fair comparison since Overload will lock out all of your mana crystals next turn, and regardless of when you play this, you will always have at least 1 mana next turn, which is sufficient to Innervate out Savage Roar.
Incidentally: did they change the voting from MSOG to Un'Goro packs?
Cause yesterday I logged in to 52 packs that I can't open, and can't remember where that last one came from. 50 from the preorder and 1 from the recent Brawl.
This week and last week's brawls were both for Un'Goro packs. I also have 52 as a result.
Incidentally: did they change the voting from MSOG to Un'Goro packs?
Cause yesterday I logged in to 52 packs that I can't open, and can't remember where that last one came from. 50 from the preorder and 1 from the recent Brawl.
More edits: I don't know what I'm talking about. I swear I logged in recently and had some sort of reward waiting for me... I though it was a card back or something, but I dunno.
forty on
Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
0
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
Incidentally: did they change the voting from MSOG to Un'Goro packs?
Cause yesterday I logged in to 52 packs that I can't open, and can't remember where that last one came from. 50 from the preorder and 1 from the recent Brawl.
This week and last week's brawls were both for Un'Goro packs. I also have 52 as a result.
i cleverly went against the grain and didn't pick Pavel, knowing in my heart that to pick with the crowd is to die ignobly.
i learned my lesson with Thijs last year.
I had been controlling him pretty well and got him down to 10 hp, but then he was able to spew out a bunch of golems up to 8/8 I can't remove. Next turn he kills my stronger minions, but lets my Netherspite Historian and Northshire Cleric live as he goes face with the rest, getting me down to 3 HP.
Good thing my Draconic Operatives gave me Feral Rage. Twice.
Posts
Shaman was consistently the worst class throughout 2015, and although I wouldn't say they were in quite as bad a position as Hunter has been since MSoG, they were there for much longer.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
As it is, in the early and mid game it's not all that great, but late game you're paying 7 to put 14 damage on the board in return for possibly having a slower next turn. If your opponent does clear on their turn, you get the mana back on your next turn. If they don't (and we assume you'd run Savage Roar in a deck running this card for obvious reasons), they're in a risky position.
The biggest problem is that Jade Druid exists and will likely be better. Fun police etc. etc.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
If it's too good they shouldn't have printed it either, but this is a bad card.
It's ramp so it's not garbage, but it's just a power creeped force of nature.
It's not really a blowout except against Mass Dispel (which no one plays) and Devolve, which is only in 1 class. The treants give you mana crystals when you die. I think a Druid would gladly take their board getting wiped by coin + Volcanic Potion to go up to 8 mana on turn 3.
It's not ramp? Unless I misunderstood, it doesn't give you any extra mana crystals.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
I think he's qualifying it as ramp because of innervate. If you double innervate play that card, it's super high ramp once those trees die.
Yeah it's a card for like, Token Druid.
They mentioned on the stream pairing it with Mark of the Lotus/Power of the Wild and/or Soul of the Forest.
In that regard it seems pretty good? But I'm still not 100% sold on it. I dunno... The effect does seem strong, but it also leaves you with nothing to do the next turn(s), but there's also no downside because of the mana refund (unless Mass Dispel/Devolve).
It's an interesting one, I'll give it that.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
But innervate doesn't work with it....
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Does it not? I haven't been following the conversation lol. Why wouldn't it?
Very good question! "Because Blizzard said so" appears to be the answer. "Because what if that 1/30 chance you get that with double-innervate on turn one! It may not be fun for your opponent" is another guessed reason.
I am disappointed
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Haha, well, I think less of that and more so that it... goes against the design of the card? I mean, yes that, but that's not the primary reason.
It's supposed to be a way to convert your mana into minions, right? Not ramp. And if you could Innervate it out, then it becomes ramp as well.
Or maybe we're all overthinking it and the reason is simply that it's permanent mana crystals only because that's also how Wild Growth on 10 works, or something. SHRUG.
Are there any other mana crystal mechanics that work/don't work with temporary mana crystals? Or is it just Wild Growth/Living Mana?
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Edit: Alternatively, for a less obscure interaction, kill off a Darnassus Aspirant you control after having played Innervate.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Midrange is probably the deck that's not going to care about the card, generally because they're wanting a smooth ramp in order to play their generally good quality creatures on curve. Living Mana, by contrast, fucks up that gameplan and makes their plays more awkward than in other decks.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Reno Mage vs. Jade Shaman
Could go either way!
Switch Friend Code: SW-1406-1275-7906
It ended already.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Oh cool, you chose DocPwn too?
Edit: Seriously though, when the Shaman can bust through your turn 2 Doomsayer, you're in real trouble.
That was the classic aggro Shaman stomp.
Switch Friend Code: SW-1406-1275-7906
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Frozen seems nice
Cause yesterday I logged in to 52 packs that I can't open, and can't remember where that last one came from. 50 from the preorder and 1 from the recent Brawl.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
If it included the proviso that those minions gain "Deathrattle: unlock an Overloaded mana crystal?" Yeah, maybe.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Pick Pavel as my champion in 2017.
Feelsbadman.
This week and last week's brawls were both for Un'Goro packs. I also have 52 as a result.
Was it really? The hell did I forget that?
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
i learned my lesson with Thijs last year.
...this time i picked b787.
I need to stop listening to you all! :sad:
I had been controlling him pretty well and got him down to 10 hp, but then he was able to spew out a bunch of golems up to 8/8 I can't remove. Next turn he kills my stronger minions, but lets my Netherspite Historian and Northshire Cleric live as he goes face with the rest, getting me down to 3 HP.
Good thing my Draconic Operatives gave me Feral Rage. Twice.
I should really just use a random number generator to select the champion to pick for these giveaways.
The Hearthstone way.
Probably have more luck.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12