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Foreign Policy in the Age of Trump

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Posts

  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    Canada can't realistically break ties with the states

    ...Suppose they simply break ties anyway, though. Then we were a polite doormat for the administration with no gains, and only arguably hurt ourselves going forward with future negotiations (either in the U.S. or elsewhere).

    Not today, motherfucker
  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited February 11
    moniker wrote: »
    Maybe Trump will just talk about how nice Canada is and how great Trump Tower Toronto is and the amazing deals during the off season.

    Hell, he might not even realize that he's going to Ottawa and tell them to fly to the wrong city.

    Trump Tower Toronto might not be Trump Tower much longer. There's an ongoing lawsuit. Actually, multiple ongoing lawsuits. And it's up for sale. Because the developer defaulted.

    hippofant on
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    The Ender wrote: »
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    Trudeau meets with Trump on Monday.

    As the National Post puts it:
    The prime minister is already being pulled in different directions as to how he should handle his unconventional interlocutor — on the one hand, some critics on the right have accused him of sounding too negative about Trump, and jeopardizing business ties.

    On the other, the NDP insists he hasn’t done enough to denounce Trump’s treatment of minorities, beyond tweeting photos of himself with Syrian refugees after the president announced his travel ban.
    In my opinion, Trudeau is successfully walking a very fine line. He's demonstrating Canadian principles via his actions, while refraining from saying anything that could cripple the Canadian economy (and the American one, for that matter). For his part, Trump needs a foreign policy win, and being able to show he can play nice with Canada would qualify. On the other hand, he might consider slapping an important tax on Canadian goods a win, so who knows.

    I think that there's a decent chance that we might see Trudeau announce that our military will expand. That isn't exactly ideal, but I'd rather Trump says that he forced us to meet our NATO funding commitments than to see him building a northern wall. A growing military also serves to some extent as a stimulus, so it's not completely terrible.

    I've said in the Canada thread that I agree with this, and having mulled it over for a while I still mostly do (because I feel it is important right now that we have world leaders who can act like they are actually fucking adults where it counts)... but I have also asked myself this question, and I don't think I have a satisfactory answer:

    Is this not more or less the same as Chamberlain's policy of German appeasement? Act polite, bend with the wind, hope that somehow the beast's appetite is satiated at some point?

    If it isn't the same... why isn't it? (Note that I don't mean the surrounding conditions, which are obviously much different, but the policy itself to me plainly appears to be aimed at appeasing a man who has shown no indication he can actually be appeased).

    Chamberlain could have stopped Hitler. Canada has as much chance of stopping Trump as Denmark or Switzerland did of stopping Hitler.

    I don't think The Ender is talking about actual military action or anything. He knows Canada isn't going to enact regime change in the US or anything. He's talking about whether Canada should continue its present course of kind of passive-aggressive friendliness or whether it should tell Trump to fuck off.

    The answer is no different. Canada can't push the US around on any level. The best Trudeau can do is what he's doing right now. Showcase Trump's shittiness without openly confronting him.

    TubularLuggageGnome-InterruptusElvenshae
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Phyphor wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Scooter wrote: »
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    Trudeau meets with Trump on Monday.

    As the National Post puts it:
    The prime minister is already being pulled in different directions as to how he should handle his unconventional interlocutor — on the one hand, some critics on the right have accused him of sounding too negative about Trump, and jeopardizing business ties.

    On the other, the NDP insists he hasn’t done enough to denounce Trump’s treatment of minorities, beyond tweeting photos of himself with Syrian refugees after the president announced his travel ban.
    In my opinion, Trudeau is successfully walking a very fine line. He's demonstrating Canadian principles via his actions, while refraining from saying anything that could cripple the Canadian economy (and the American one, for that matter). For his part, Trump needs a foreign policy win, and being able to show he can play nice with Canada would qualify. On the other hand, he might consider slapping an important tax on Canadian goods a win, so who knows.

    I think that there's a decent chance that we might see Trudeau announce that our military will expand. That isn't exactly ideal, but I'd rather Trump says that he forced us to meet our NATO funding commitments than to see him building a northern wall. A growing military also serves to some extent as a stimulus, so it's not completely terrible.

    This is also kind of a major test, in my eyes. Canada is probably the easiest of easy mode diplomacy, by far. I mean, he's already pissed off Australia and Mexico, and Canada's probably the only one that's gonna be easier than those.

    So if Trump manages to piss off Canada, we're basically going to be flying completely solo for the next four years.

    Trump might remember that Canada is part of NAFTA and start spewing shit over that.

    Considering there are only 3 countries in NAFTA and he now runs one of them I would hope he knows that

    You overestimate him.

    He talked to Russia and didn't even know what the START treaty was.

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  • HandgimpHandgimp STEVE BANNON IS OFF THE NSC THANK FUCKING CHRISTRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »

    He talked to Russia and didn't even know what the START treaty was.

    You mean the Startup Deal? Such a bad deal Obama made.

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  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    The Ender wrote: »
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    Trudeau meets with Trump on Monday.

    As the National Post puts it:
    The prime minister is already being pulled in different directions as to how he should handle his unconventional interlocutor — on the one hand, some critics on the right have accused him of sounding too negative about Trump, and jeopardizing business ties.

    On the other, the NDP insists he hasn’t done enough to denounce Trump’s treatment of minorities, beyond tweeting photos of himself with Syrian refugees after the president announced his travel ban.
    In my opinion, Trudeau is successfully walking a very fine line. He's demonstrating Canadian principles via his actions, while refraining from saying anything that could cripple the Canadian economy (and the American one, for that matter). For his part, Trump needs a foreign policy win, and being able to show he can play nice with Canada would qualify. On the other hand, he might consider slapping an important tax on Canadian goods a win, so who knows.

    I think that there's a decent chance that we might see Trudeau announce that our military will expand. That isn't exactly ideal, but I'd rather Trump says that he forced us to meet our NATO funding commitments than to see him building a northern wall. A growing military also serves to some extent as a stimulus, so it's not completely terrible.

    I've said in the Canada thread that I agree with this, and having mulled it over for a while I still mostly do (because I feel it is important right now that we have world leaders who can act like they are actually fucking adults where it counts)... but I have also asked myself this question, and I don't think I have a satisfactory answer:

    Is this not more or less the same as Chamberlain's policy of German appeasement? Act polite, bend with the wind, hope that somehow the beast's appetite is satiated at some point?

    If it isn't the same... why isn't it? (Note that I don't mean the surrounding conditions, which are obviously much different, but the policy itself to me plainly appears to be aimed at appeasing a man who has shown no indication he can actually be appeased).

    Chamberlain could have stopped Hitler. Canada has as much chance of stopping Trump as Denmark or Switzerland did of stopping Hitler.

    Germany was very not a superpower of unsurpassed military and economic weight.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    It will be interesting to see Trump's response when he starts just speaking French and repeating himself.

  • Captain MarcusCaptain Marcus now arrives the hour of actionRegistered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    ...Suppose they simply break ties anyway, though. Then we were a polite doormat for the administration with no gains, and only arguably hurt ourselves going forward with future negotiations (either in the U.S. or elsewhere).
    But you can't. Your entire defense doctrine is based around interoperability with the United States- your frigates (all 12 of them) integrate with our carrier groups and NORAD adds almost 2,000 fighter jets to help your 79. Your entire military is less than a third the size of Mexico's, and you have a lot more land and ocean to defend. You think breaking the alliance isn't going to immediately result in Russia and China muscling in on your Arctic claims and offshore fisheries? You think Trump's going to help you when that happens?

    It's nice to think about but it's not going to happen.

    ISIS delenda est
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  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited February 11
    The Ender wrote: »
    ...Suppose they simply break ties anyway, though. Then we were a polite doormat for the administration with no gains, and only arguably hurt ourselves going forward with future negotiations (either in the U.S. or elsewhere).
    But you can't. Your entire defense doctrine is based around interoperability with the United States- your frigates (all 12 of them) integrate with our carrier groups and NORAD adds almost 2,000 fighter jets to help your 79. Your entire military is less than a third the size of Mexico's, and you have a lot more land and ocean to defend. You think breaking the alliance isn't going to immediately result in Russia and China muscling in on your Arctic claims and offshore fisheries? You think Trump's going to help you when that happens?

    It's nice to think about but it's not going to happen.

    It's unclear that Trump will help us regardless.

    This is the problem with Trump's "unpredictability" foreign policy strategy. It is true that crazy people win more confrontations than would otherwise be expected due to their unpredictability... but they also have no friends. Ask yourself, how close are you with people who are completely unreliable, unpredictable, and self-interested? Do you have a lot of friends like that? Can you count on people like that? Do you plan and shape your life around those people?

    What good is it to be a client state of an uncaring protector anyways? What point is there in serving a lord who cares only for his own interests, is prone to irrational temper tantrums, and acts out his insane whims regularly, weakening his kingdom and instigating ever more enemies? Who would, unless they had no other alternative? (Which may very well be Canada's position, but even then, you distance yourself from the mad lord for when the knives come out.)

    hippofant on
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  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    Mayabird wrote: »
    Also pissed off Mexico on multiple levels, and...maybe I should just post the whole picture so far. In spoilers for biglyness.
    7H6lURY.png

    Iran should be green and purple.

    Man, the US is going to fucking war with Iran. Every time you see Flynn you can see the glorious fantasy playing out beneath his eyes. And Iran being Iran (we are impish, irritating bastards, it's true), they will happily needle and poke and prod the US into making the first move.

    Iran could start referring to itself as Persia and I bet Trump would immediately respect them for their leadership and empire of wealth. I'd wager it would take at least a month for him to figure it out if no one told him.

    The obvious solution for Iran seems like just start talking to Eric Trump about how they really want a nice new shiny Trump Tehran luxury hotel.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    Mayabird wrote: »
    Also pissed off Mexico on multiple levels, and...maybe I should just post the whole picture so far. In spoilers for biglyness.
    7H6lURY.png

    Iran should be green and purple.

    Man, the US is going to fucking war with Iran. Every time you see Flynn you can see the glorious fantasy playing out beneath his eyes. And Iran being Iran (we are impish, irritating bastards, it's true), they will happily needle and poke and prod the US into making the first move.

    Iran could start referring to itself as Persia and I bet Trump would immediately respect them for their leadership and empire of wealth. I'd wager it would take at least a month for him to figure it out if no one told him.

    The obvious solution for Iran seems like just start talking to Eric Trump about how they really want a nice new shiny Trump Tehran luxury hotel.

    No one listens to Eric, Ivanka maybe.

  • kowikowi Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    It will be interesting to see Trump's response when he starts just speaking French and repeating himself.

    Can't wait to make meme of that.

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  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    ...Suppose they simply break ties anyway, though. Then we were a polite doormat for the administration with no gains, and only arguably hurt ourselves going forward with future negotiations (either in the U.S. or elsewhere).
    But you can't. Your entire defense doctrine is based around interoperability with the United States- your frigates (all 12 of them) integrate with our carrier groups and NORAD adds almost 2,000 fighter jets to help your 79. Your entire military is less than a third the size of Mexico's, and you have a lot more land and ocean to defend. You think breaking the alliance isn't going to immediately result in Russia and China muscling in on your Arctic claims and offshore fisheries? You think Trump's going to help you when that happens?

    It's nice to think about but it's not going to happen.

    -.-


    I was more asking why what the point of appeasement is if Trump is unlikely to honor it.


    But no, I don't exactly lose sleep over the alleged threat posed by Russian or Chinese naval forces, with their dilapidated (if interesting) equipment, untrained aircrews and basically non-existent AWACs or logistical chains. 79 jets are perfectly fine by me given both the present state of geopolitics & the present quality of potentially belligerent armed forces.

    Not today, motherfucker
    Gnome-Interruptus
  • a nu starta nu start Registered User regular
    Number One Tricky
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  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    North Korea fired a medium-range missile into the sea; probably not coincidental that they chose to shoot it off while Trump met with Abe.

    They've yet to attempt a firing of their alleged-to-exist ICBM, but that is presumably coming down the pipeline as well (if the vehicle is real).


    No direct word from Trump yet, or (interestingly) any commentary from the DPRK. There's been the usual round of international condemnations otherwise.

    Not today, motherfucker
  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    North Korea fired a medium-range missile into the sea; probably not coincidental that they chose to shoot it off while Trump met with Abe.

    They've yet to attempt a firing of their alleged-to-exist ICBM, but that is presumably coming down the pipeline as well (if the vehicle is real).


    No direct word from Trump yet, or (interestingly) any commentary from the DPRK. There's been the usual round of international condemnations otherwise.

    Isn't South Korea's government in a state of non-function since the big scandal with their president?

    V wrote:
    Words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth.

  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    North Korea fired a medium-range missile into the sea; probably not coincidental that they chose to shoot it off while Trump met with Abe.

    They've yet to attempt a firing of their alleged-to-exist ICBM, but that is presumably coming down the pipeline as well (if the vehicle is real).


    No direct word from Trump yet, or (interestingly) any commentary from the DPRK. There's been the usual round of international condemnations otherwise.

    Isn't South Korea's government in a state of non-function since the big scandal with their president?

    No; the President was impeached and Hwang Gyo-an is now the acting-President.


    RoK ain't dumb. They know they can't afford to have a succession crisis or hung parliament with the DPRK as the next door neighbor.

    Not today, motherfucker
    RchanenElvenshae
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    North Korea fired a medium-range missile into the sea; probably not coincidental that they chose to shoot it off while Trump met with Abe.

    They've yet to attempt a firing of their alleged-to-exist ICBM, but that is presumably coming down the pipeline as well (if the vehicle is real).


    No direct word from Trump yet, or (interestingly) any commentary from the DPRK. There's been the usual round of international condemnations otherwise.

    Thanks, Bush 2!

    Sleep
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    So, Trump has the answer to getting kicked out of the British Parliament, hold a rally!
    Trump shrugs off Bercow's rant: US President plans spectacular UK rally to help veterans

    DONALD TRUMP will snub Parliament and “speak to the people” at a stadium rally on his UK visit, with the proceeds going to the Poppy appeal.

    The US President hopes a sell-out arena address will celebrate the special relationship during his state visit to Britain later this year.

    Plans are under discussion with Whitehall officials to stage the event and the £10 ticket sales will be donated to Britain’s war veterans.

    Last week Commons Speaker John Bercow said he would try to block Doanld Trump addressing Parliament but insiders say the President has shrugged off the apparent snub and wants to “speak to the people, not politicians”.

    The Speaker is facing a no-confidence motion following his announcement with MPs complaining that he had “overstepped the mark”.

    But a source close to the President said: “Trump never asked to address Parliament in the first place.

    “The idea that is being discussed is to hire a major stadium in Birmingham, Cardiff or even Wembley and to bring everyone together in a massive rally to celebrate the special relationship between the US and the UK.

    The source added: “Trump is a huge supporter of the military so the plan would be to charge people £10 to attend with all the proceeds going to the Poppy appeal.

    “It would be a triple win. Trump loves rallies; it would be a win for the British public and a win for the Royal British Legion, of which the Queen is patron.

    “The only person who gets screwed is the Speaker of the House of Commons.” Insiders say Mr Bercow may have orchestrated the row to keep him in the post until 2020 by currying favour with the Left by vetoing a speech in Westminster Hall.

    Work has yet to get underway to find the venue which his team hopes will accommodate tens of thousands.
    It has been suggested his visit could coincide with the G7 meeting in Italy at the end of May. The start of June has also been mooted, although it is looking increasingly likely the visit could be delayed until the start of September and may coincide with the G20 meeting in Germany.

    Look, if I was on the UK, I would be 100% for the Trump deal, since an US/UK trade deal is one of the few ways that Brexit happens and the UK economy doesn't take a dive for losing access to the single market. "But Brexit shouldn't happen". Well, too late for that. And a repeat of the Greek crisis simply doesn't benefit anybody.

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  • TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    Trump's gonna hold a rally in the U.K.


    oh man that'll be something special.

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  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Trace wrote: »
    Trump's gonna hold a rally in the U.K.


    oh man that'll be something special.

    Hammer! Hammer! Hammer! Hammer!

    XaquinHavelock2.0
  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    Surely brits will be polite.

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  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    Trace wrote: »
    Trump's gonna hold a rally in the U.K.


    oh man that'll be something special.

    I can't really process this presidency anymore. Like what the fuck is even going on? Is the US government technically still functioning? Can such a thing even be reasonably secured?

    UnluckyFuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudOghulkShadowhope
  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie This is NOT normalRegistered User regular
    "With the proceeds going to the Poppy Day appeal."

    Right. The Poppy Day appeal are getting stiffed with the bill for trying to host a public event with the security required to host the US President?

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  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII Registered User regular
    a nu start wrote: »

    I'm not convinced there's any strategy at all.

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  • Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    something like 85% of british people disapprove of trump

    shockingly, "america first" only appeals to americans

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Trace wrote: »
    Trump's gonna hold a rally in the U.K.


    oh man that'll be something special.

    Given that england is the country that gave the world soccer hooligans, I can't imagine the shitshow trump is setting himself up for.

    Also: I remain staggeringly ambivelent towards any distress this may inspire on his part.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
    Mr Khanelectricitylikesme
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    I'm sure Trump feels that the UK would welcome him with open arms, due to voting in favor of brexit, and his conversations with Farage who I'm sure Trump thinks absolutely represents the national mentality.

    But I was under the impression that UK demographics are not unlike the US, where the liberal/conservative divide is very much skewed by urban/rural populations. If Trump gives his rallies in a populated area, I think he'd be dealing with more protestors than supporters.

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  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    a nu start wrote: »

    Speak bigly and carry a hand appropriate stick.

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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie This is NOT normalRegistered User regular
    edited February 12
    If Trump happens to mention any sanctions, torn up trade deals or other aggressive foreign policy measures against the Dominican Republic over the next few days it will likely have been caused by a newspaper there using a photo of Alex Baldwin on SNL instead of a photo of Trump.

    They swear it was unintentional.

    Back in Ireland, our current relationship status with the US is probably best described as "it's complicated." Ireland has more than a few American multi-nationals employing lots of people locally (if paying very little tax) and we get a lot of tourism from the US. The majority of Irish people disapprove of Trump (to put it mildly) and he isn't too fond of us since he was denied permission to build a wall around his golf course here (oh dear Gods do I wish I was kidding.) The government (which is very unstable at the moment for completely different reasons) are currently in the middle, dealing with Trump's threats to force US multinationals out of Ireland on the one hand and Irish voters demanding the government cancel state visits to the US on the other.

    To cut a long story short, Brexit has left the Irish economy vulnerable and an unfolding political scandal has left the Irish government vulnerable. Easing each crisis requires treating Trump in very different ways. It's too soon to say which crisis will win.

    Desktop Hippie on
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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    So, Trump has the answer to getting kicked out of the British Parliament, hold a rally!
    Trump shrugs off Bercow's rant: US President plans spectacular UK rally to help veterans

    DONALD TRUMP will snub Parliament and “speak to the people” at a stadium rally on his UK visit, with the proceeds going to the Poppy appeal.

    The US President hopes a sell-out arena address will celebrate the special relationship during his state visit to Britain later this year.

    Plans are under discussion with Whitehall officials to stage the event and the £10 ticket sales will be donated to Britain’s war veterans.

    Last week Commons Speaker John Bercow said he would try to block Doanld Trump addressing Parliament but insiders say the President has shrugged off the apparent snub and wants to “speak to the people, not politicians”.

    The Speaker is facing a no-confidence motion following his announcement with MPs complaining that he had “overstepped the mark”.

    But a source close to the President said: “Trump never asked to address Parliament in the first place.

    “The idea that is being discussed is to hire a major stadium in Birmingham, Cardiff or even Wembley and to bring everyone together in a massive rally to celebrate the special relationship between the US and the UK.

    The source added: “Trump is a huge supporter of the military so the plan would be to charge people £10 to attend with all the proceeds going to the Poppy appeal.

    “It would be a triple win. Trump loves rallies; it would be a win for the British public and a win for the Royal British Legion, of which the Queen is patron.

    “The only person who gets screwed is the Speaker of the House of Commons.” Insiders say Mr Bercow may have orchestrated the row to keep him in the post until 2020 by currying favour with the Left by vetoing a speech in Westminster Hall.

    Work has yet to get underway to find the venue which his team hopes will accommodate tens of thousands.
    It has been suggested his visit could coincide with the G7 meeting in Italy at the end of May. The start of June has also been mooted, although it is looking increasingly likely the visit could be delayed until the start of September and may coincide with the G20 meeting in Germany.

    Look, if I was on the UK, I would be 100% for the Trump deal, since an US/UK trade deal is one of the few ways that Brexit happens and the UK economy doesn't take a dive for losing access to the single market. "But Brexit shouldn't happen". Well, too late for that. And a repeat of the Greek crisis simply doesn't benefit anybody.

    Well no, because Trump's deals aren't about what's good for the countries involved, they aren't economic at all. They are about what makes Trump look strong.

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  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    I wonder how much it cost CNN to pay all those british protesters.

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Trace wrote: »
    Trump's gonna hold a rally in the U.K.


    oh man that'll be something special.

    He's Mr Brexit.

    EinzelCommander Zoom
  • zipidideezipididee Registered User regular
    Is this the right thread to talk about the recent surge of ICE raids and pieces of families getting sent back to Mexico? Because holy hell some of the news stories are terrible.

    *ching ching* Just my two cents
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Doubt it. Either the EO thread or one specifically about the rise in deportations.

    kimeKanaGnizmoElldrenGnome-Interruptus
  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie This is NOT normalRegistered User regular
    PLA wrote: »
    I wonder how much it cost CNN to pay all those british protesters.

    Is THAT who is paying? Because I went to the women's march in Dublin weeks ago and didn't get a cent, AND I had to pay my own bus fair! Both ways!

    CalicaArmoroc
  • Void SlayerVoid Slayer Very Suspicious Registered User regular
    "With the proceeds going to the Poppy Day appeal."

    Right. The Poppy Day appeal are getting stiffed with the bill for trying to host a public event with the security required to host the US President?

    You act as if he will have any real connection with the charity. Time to see if a US president can be convicted/sued under British law for charity fraud.

    Apparently it can't happen over here.

    He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
    Gnome-Interruptus
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited February 13
    Everybody at the National Security Council is paranoid for good reason right now and foreign policy is being molded around Trump's tweets.

    https://nytimes.com/2017/02/12/us/politics/national-security-council-turmoil.html
    WASHINGTON — These are chaotic and anxious days inside the National Security Council, the traditional center of management for a president’s dealings with an uncertain world.

    Three weeks into the Trump administration, council staff members get up in the morning, read President Trump’s Twitter posts and struggle to make policy to fit them. Most are kept in the dark about what Mr. Trump tells foreign leaders in his phone calls. Some staff members have turned to encrypted communications to talk with their colleagues, after hearing that Mr. Trump’s top advisers are considering an “insider threat” program that could result in monitoring cellphones and emails for leaks.
    New Trump appointees are carrying coffee mugs with that Trump campaign slogan into meetings with foreign counterparts, one staff member said. And Mr. [Stephen] Miller was once allowed to act as chairman of a weekend meeting of the national security deputies, stunning career officials.
    Last week, Defense Secretary Jim Mattis was exploring whether the Navy could intercept and board an Iranian ship to look for contraband weapons possibly headed to Houthi fighters in Yemen. The potential interdiction seemed in keeping with recent instructions from Mr. Trump, reinforced in meetings with Mr. Mattis and Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson, to crack down on Iran’s support of terrorism.

    But the ship was in international waters in the Arabian Sea, according to two officials. Mr. Mattis ultimately decided to set the operation aside, at least for now. White House officials said that was because news of the impending operation leaked, a threat to security that has helped fuel the move for the insider threat program. But others doubt whether there was enough basis in international law, and wondered what would happen if, in the early days of an administration that has already seen one botched military action in Yemen, American forces were suddenly in a firefight with the Iranian Navy.
    And while Mr. Obama liked policy option papers that were three to six single-spaced pages, council staff members are now being told to keep papers to a single page, with lots of graphics and maps.

    “The president likes maps,” one official said.

    Two people with direct access to the White House leadership said Mr. Flynn was surprised to learn that the State Department and Congress play a pivotal role in foreign arms sales and technology transfers. So it was a rude discovery that Mr. Trump could not simply order the Pentagon to send more weapons to Saudi Arabia — which is clamoring to have an Obama administration ban on the sale of cluster bombs and precision-guided weapons lifted — or to deliver bigger weapons packages to the United Arab Emirates

    There is a surprisingly decent chance they are going to accidentally start a war with Iran and no good is going to come of a bunch of Trump fans like Stephen Miller creating foreign policy.

    Wasn't there speculation at some point that Trump would be harder on Saudi Arabia?

    Couscous on
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  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Six wrote: »
    I'm a little surprised that articles about Trump backing down on One China aren't positioning it as Trump losing his first significant pissing contest with China.

    Significant for who? Americans? Yeah right.

    Yeah, Trump embarrassed himself on the one china policy. He proclaimed a change in policy, and then one phone call with Xi Jinping and he was publicly begging China to take him back. Once again he brags that he's a great negotiator, yet he got nothing from China and publicly lost credibility that he'll stand behind his policy declarations in the future. It does reveal Trump's true character - he lacks even the convictions of a warmonger, he's just a loudmouth.

    Of course, the One China Policy is generally in America's interest, and is also basically meaningless because our agreements are very carefully crafted to not actually mention *which* government we believe should be in charge of a combined China, it's just a bit of polite international fiction.

    Luckily for Trump, most Americans have even less understanding of the One China Policy than they do of TPP, so nobody in America really cares.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    This is maybe slightly peripheral to foreign policy, but there's some overlap. Kevin Drum assembled a list of all the internal leaks out of the white house.
    it occurred to me yesterday that we needed a record of the never-ending flow of leaks from the White House (and elsewhere) that are seemingly designed to show what an idiot Donald Trump is. Leaks, of course, are common, but leaks designed to embarrass the president aren't. Especially in the first month of a new administration.
    blog_trump_leaks.jpg

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
    shrykeLabelPanda4YouSpoitjdarksunEinzelGnome-Interruptusemp123Giggles_FunsworthMan in the Mists
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