I dont really understand thinking iron man is one of the best marvel movies. Its got some really good stuff but the third act is such a complete fumble.
The war criminal James Buchanan Barnes should be executed for his crimes against humanity.
Sorry, Jessica Jones established the legal precedent of Mind Control already. Evidence of him being framed for the Vienna bombing has come to light and movie rules dictate that it's okay to resist arrest IF your innocence is proven.
The war criminal James Buchanan Barnes should be executed for his crimes against humanity.
Sorry, Jessica Jones established the legal precedent of Mind Control already. Evidence of him being framed for the Vienna bombing has come to light and movie rules dictate that it's okay to resist arrest IF your innocence is proven.
Barnes goes free.
What do you mean arrest? Wasn't nobody gonna arrest Bucky until Cap got between them and him.
EDIT: To ve clear Im saying that the meant sent to deal with Bucky were clearly sent to kill him not attempt to arrest him.
I've definitely said this before on here, but if Civil War didn't come out like, a month after Batman v Superman, its reception would be much poorer critically. Like, half the reviews just used it as a way to dunk on Zack Snyder.
Civil War will always be an inferior film to Winter Soldier because it doesn't work as a stand-alone piece.
You can watch and enjoy Winter Soldier without having seen a single other MCU film.
You'll have no fucking clue what's going on or who these people are if you go into Civil War without having watched not just all the previous Captain America films, but also, at the bare minimum, both Avengers films and Ant-Man.
Civil War will always be an inferior film to Winter Soldier because it doesn't work as a stand-alone piece.
You can watch and enjoy Winter Soldier without having seen a single other MCU film.
You'll have no fucking clue what's going on or who these people are if you go into Civil War without having watched not just all the previous Captain America films, but also, at the bare minimum, both Avengers films and Ant-Man.
This ain't true
Like
It isn't as seamless of a trick as Avengers but I watched Civil War with someone who had only seen up to the first Avengers movie and they understood it just fine
You don't really need to explain shit like Ant-Man and Vision and whatnot
It's a world full of superheroes, they are other superheroes. That's all the context you strictly need.
masterofmetroidHave you ever looked at a worldand seen it as a kind of challenge?Registered Userregular
Civil War is a better film with the previous context of each of the characters, but it still works if you don't know much about any of them
It was a really good decision to take the fight from moral debate to intensely personal scrapping where everyone is just a little bit emotionally compromised
You don't need to know a whole ton of outside backstory to understand why people are making the choices they make
Tony was wrong, and not only was he wrong in what he did, he was doing it because he personally couldn't shoulder the weight of his own mistakes
Cap was right, and not only was he right, he shouldered the weight of all of their mistakes, made them his own, and said "we must persevere"
#TeamCap
Steve was overly prideful and dangerously arrogant, placing his own judgement over the unified body of 117 countries. He was emotionally compromised on two different fronts, and lets not forget that he actively withheld secrets from his teammates.
Tony was trying to weather a storm and keep his team together in the face of a global shut-down.
Tony was wrong, and not only was he wrong in what he did, he was doing it because he personally couldn't shoulder the weight of his own mistakes
Cap was right, and not only was he right, he shouldered the weight of all of their mistakes, made them his own, and said "we must persevere"
#TeamCap
Steve was overly prideful and dangerously arrogant, placing his own judgement over the unified body of 117 countries. He was emotionally compromised on two different fronts, and lets not forget that he actively withheld secrets from his teammates.
Tony was trying to weather a storm and keep his team together in the face of a global shut-down.
#TeamIronMan
Cap said that the morality of nations cannot be trusted with the power of the Avengers and he's not wrong, he said that Tony was using the accords as his own personal flagellation and he's not wrong, he said that nothing would change but that they would have the luxury of casting off responsibility to others but really it would still lie with them and he's not wrong.
He went off the rails to save an innocent man from being killed for something he didn't do. He is the hero!
Tony was wrong, and not only was he wrong in what he did, he was doing it because he personally couldn't shoulder the weight of his own mistakes
Cap was right, and not only was he right, he shouldered the weight of all of their mistakes, made them his own, and said "we must persevere"
#TeamCap
Steve was overly prideful and dangerously arrogant, placing his own judgement over the unified body of 117 countries. He was emotionally compromised on two different fronts, and lets not forget that he actively withheld secrets from his teammates.
Tony was trying to weather a storm and keep his team together in the face of a global shut-down.
#TeamIronMan
Cap said that the morality of nations cannot be trusted with the power of the Avengers and he's not wrong, he said that Tony was using the accords as his own personal flagellation and he's not wrong, he said that nothing would change but that they would have the luxury of casting off responsibility to others but really it would still lie with them and he's not wrong.
He went off the rails to save an innocent man from being killed for something he didn't do. He is the hero!
I understand most of the protony arguments even if I dont agree with them but I find it genuinely perplexing to have to argue that Steve did nothing wrong in trying to save someone from being killed by the government due to a miaunderstanding.
+4
Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
edited March 2017
Steve Rogers has the miraculous fortune of having never been in the wrong or made a huge mistake.
And he carries that around in as smug a way as possible in that film.
Zonugal on
+3
Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
edited March 2017
@Solar, I am genuinely interested, what do you think Steve would have done if the United Nations had gone ahead and made the Avengers an illegal task force?
Where does he maintain a head-quarters? How does he maintain resources for missions?
Zonugal on
0
GustavFriend of GoatsSomewhere in the OzarksRegistered Userregular
Steve Rogers has the miraculous fortune of having never been in the wrong or made a huge mistake.
And he carries that around in as smug a way as possible in that film.
What?
Like, a huge part of why Steve takes the stance he does is because he made a huge mistake before. He went along with SHIELD, even when he didn't like or trust what they were doing, and it almost led to a global disaster.
0
David_TA fashion yes-man is no good to me.Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered Userregular
Because otherwise they're not wings, they're just meat.
Steve Rogers has the miraculous fortune of having never been in the wrong or made a huge mistake.
And he carries that around in as smug a way as possible in that film.
What?
Like, a huge part of why Steve takes the stance he does is because he made a huge mistake before. He went along with SHIELD, even when he didn't like or trust what they were doing, and it almost led to a global disaster.
But Steve Rogers didn't create Project Insight.
He is compliant in SHIELD right up till he hears about it and immediately quits.
He hasn't made a huge-ass mistake or been proven wrong for one of his direct actions.
Steve Rogers greatest superpower is the ability to always be in the right during any conflict/incident, and by the time of Civil War that has made him incredibly cocky.
Steve Rogers has the miraculous fortune of having never been in the wrong or made a huge mistake.
And he carries that around in as smug a way as possible in that film.
What?
Like, a huge part of why Steve takes the stance he does is because he made a huge mistake before. He went along with SHIELD, even when he didn't like or trust what they were doing, and it almost led to a global disaster.
But Steve Rogers didn't create Project Insight.
He is compliant in SHIELD right up till he hears about it and immediately quits.
He's made a huge-ass mistake or been proven wrong for one of his direct actions.
Steve Rogers greatest superpower is the ability to always be in the right during any conflict/incident, and by the time of Civil War that has made him incredibly cocky.
Point of order.
He didn't quit SHIELD when he heard about insight. Heck he didn't even quit at all so much as get attack by a SHIELD hit squad and decide sticking around wasn't a good idea.
Steve talked a big game but he wasn't willing to put it to action until he realized that things were so much worse.
Steve in Civil War wasn't cocky, he struggled with the choices because he didn't want the conflict. But in the end be could only do what his strong sense of personal responsibility and morality told him was right; to try and protect people, innocent people (of whom Bucky is one, certainly of the crime he was going to be killed for).
@Zonugal I think he would have tried, yes, as is the right thing for him to do, but I think he would have struggled and probably failed to be as effective. But I think he would have probably preferred a hobbled Avengers acting on moral impetus than a more effective Avengers subject to international political aims. Because he's 100% right there, the first time they are told to do something they don't want to, or don't do something they do, the accords will be ignored, they're just too invested in trying to do what's right.
As we see quite clearly when Steve goes off on an unsanctioned and unreported mission because he knows he'll be told no and doesn't want to follow the accords. We see them fail the very first time one of their architects is tested!
0
David_TA fashion yes-man is no good to me.Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered Userregular
MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
As much as I love Winter Soldier
It totally would have been a better movie if they forced them to confront the fact that Project Insight was super fucked up even if an evil shadow organization hadn't hijacked it
Like, by having Hydra turn an already explicitly evil project MORE EVIL, they sort of washed away just how fucked up it was in the first place and how SHIELD was totally responsible for trying to create big brother with miniguns in the sky
It totally would have been a better movie if they forced them to confront the fact that Project Insight was super fucked up even if an evil shadow organization hadn't hijacked it
Like, by having Hydra turn an already explicitly evil project MORE EVIL, they sort of washed away just how fucked up it was in the first place and how SHIELD was totally responsible for trying to create big brother with miniguns in the sky
Steve calls it out before anyone even mentions Hydra, and for some really good points.
To me the Hydra reveal wasn't "Oh, it's fucked up now" it was "Oh, now everyone realizes how bad it is". It shows people that even though normal people support it, it's so bad that even the "We're totally not nazi's, promise" guys support it.
Like, when people say something on twitter and an Alt-Right personality retweets it with support, you expect that they should go "Oh....maybe I should rethink my position" not "It's only bad now that the Alt-Right is involved".
MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
edited March 2017
The problem is that the movie never addresses it past that complaint that Steve gives that is totally handwaved away
The project doesn't roll out as expected, it's been "corrupted" by Hydra, and the closest they come to owning up to the idea that their horrible pre-crime murder platforms might be a bad thing is that they could be used by the wrong people
Like nobody except Steve in the entire movie is thinking "Oh we really shouldn't launch these things" until they find out it's been compromised by Hydra
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Sorry, Jessica Jones established the legal precedent of Mind Control already. Evidence of him being framed for the Vienna bombing has come to light and movie rules dictate that it's okay to resist arrest IF your innocence is proven.
Barnes goes free.
Cap was right, and not only was he right, he shouldered the weight of all of their mistakes, made them his own, and said "we must persevere"
#TeamCap
What do you mean arrest? Wasn't nobody gonna arrest Bucky until Cap got between them and him.
EDIT: To ve clear Im saying that the meant sent to deal with Bucky were clearly sent to kill him not attempt to arrest him.
Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.
I'm working on a cute little video game! Here's a link for you.
It has its own thread FYI
but enough about his shitty haircut
Hulk peaced on all that shit before it started, the true correct answer
#TeamHulk
You can watch and enjoy Winter Soldier without having seen a single other MCU film.
You'll have no fucking clue what's going on or who these people are if you go into Civil War without having watched not just all the previous Captain America films, but also, at the bare minimum, both Avengers films and Ant-Man.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
This ain't true
Like
It isn't as seamless of a trick as Avengers but I watched Civil War with someone who had only seen up to the first Avengers movie and they understood it just fine
You don't really need to explain shit like Ant-Man and Vision and whatnot
It's a world full of superheroes, they are other superheroes. That's all the context you strictly need.
Someone like, say, my mother, who once saw Skyfall by accident because she had actually wanted to see Flight.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
It was a really good decision to take the fight from moral debate to intensely personal scrapping where everyone is just a little bit emotionally compromised
You don't need to know a whole ton of outside backstory to understand why people are making the choices they make
Steve was overly prideful and dangerously arrogant, placing his own judgement over the unified body of 117 countries. He was emotionally compromised on two different fronts, and lets not forget that he actively withheld secrets from his teammates.
Tony was trying to weather a storm and keep his team together in the face of a global shut-down.
#TeamIronMan
#TeamPanther
#teamzemo
Cap was right, and not only was he right, he shouldered the weight of h
Cap said that the morality of nations cannot be trusted with the power of the Avengers and he's not wrong, he said that Tony was using the accords as his own personal flagellation and he's not wrong, he said that nothing would change but that they would have the luxury of casting off responsibility to others but really it would still lie with them and he's not wrong.
He went off the rails to save an innocent man from being killed for something he didn't do. He is the hero!
I understand most of the protony arguments even if I dont agree with them but I find it genuinely perplexing to have to argue that Steve did nothing wrong in trying to save someone from being killed by the government due to a miaunderstanding.
And he carries that around in as smug a way as possible in that film.
Where does he maintain a head-quarters? How does he maintain resources for missions?
Zemo was basically a dude who just thought there were too many superhero movies. And I respect that.
Like, a huge part of why Steve takes the stance he does is because he made a huge mistake before. He went along with SHIELD, even when he didn't like or trust what they were doing, and it almost led to a global disaster.
#TeamBoneIn
do you have a problem with meat buddy
But Steve Rogers didn't create Project Insight.
He is compliant in SHIELD right up till he hears about it and immediately quits.
He hasn't made a huge-ass mistake or been proven wrong for one of his direct actions.
Steve Rogers greatest superpower is the ability to always be in the right during any conflict/incident, and by the time of Civil War that has made him incredibly cocky.
Point of order.
He didn't quit SHIELD when he heard about insight. Heck he didn't even quit at all so much as get attack by a SHIELD hit squad and decide sticking around wasn't a good idea.
Steve talked a big game but he wasn't willing to put it to action until he realized that things were so much worse.
@Zonugal I think he would have tried, yes, as is the right thing for him to do, but I think he would have struggled and probably failed to be as effective. But I think he would have probably preferred a hobbled Avengers acting on moral impetus than a more effective Avengers subject to international political aims. Because he's 100% right there, the first time they are told to do something they don't want to, or don't do something they do, the accords will be ignored, they're just too invested in trying to do what's right.
As we see quite clearly when Steve goes off on an unsanctioned and unreported mission because he knows he'll be told no and doesn't want to follow the accords. We see them fail the very first time one of their architects is tested!
I'm... not allowed to talk about my meat buddy, according to the court order.
It totally would have been a better movie if they forced them to confront the fact that Project Insight was super fucked up even if an evil shadow organization hadn't hijacked it
Like, by having Hydra turn an already explicitly evil project MORE EVIL, they sort of washed away just how fucked up it was in the first place and how SHIELD was totally responsible for trying to create big brother with miniguns in the sky
Steve calls it out before anyone even mentions Hydra, and for some really good points.
To me the Hydra reveal wasn't "Oh, it's fucked up now" it was "Oh, now everyone realizes how bad it is". It shows people that even though normal people support it, it's so bad that even the "We're totally not nazi's, promise" guys support it.
Like, when people say something on twitter and an Alt-Right personality retweets it with support, you expect that they should go "Oh....maybe I should rethink my position" not "It's only bad now that the Alt-Right is involved".
Probably means you really fucked up
The project doesn't roll out as expected, it's been "corrupted" by Hydra, and the closest they come to owning up to the idea that their horrible pre-crime murder platforms might be a bad thing is that they could be used by the wrong people
Like nobody except Steve in the entire movie is thinking "Oh we really shouldn't launch these things" until they find out it's been compromised by Hydra
TWS is probably still my favorite Avengers movie though