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Marvel Stuff! Thor is covered in brains!

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  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    I dont really understand thinking iron man is one of the best marvel movies. Its got some really good stuff but the third act is such a complete fumble.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Is it time again for the SE++ MCU movie rankings? I think the last one we did was around Age of Ultron?

  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    Cap and Tony were both right and both wrong.

  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    The war criminal James Buchanan Barnes should be executed for his crimes against humanity.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    The war criminal James Buchanan Barnes should be executed for his crimes against humanity.

    Sorry, Jessica Jones established the legal precedent of Mind Control already. Evidence of him being framed for the Vienna bombing has come to light and movie rules dictate that it's okay to resist arrest IF your innocence is proven.

    Barnes goes free.

  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    The law recognizes no fewer than seven legally distinct forms of mind control, and only Kilgrave mind control has held up as a legal defense.

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  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Tony was wrong, and not only was he wrong in what he did, he was doing it because he personally couldn't shoulder the weight of his own mistakes

    Cap was right, and not only was he right, he shouldered the weight of all of their mistakes, made them his own, and said "we must persevere"

    #TeamCap

  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    -Tal wrote: »
    The war criminal James Buchanan Barnes should be executed for his crimes against humanity.

    Sorry, Jessica Jones established the legal precedent of Mind Control already. Evidence of him being framed for the Vienna bombing has come to light and movie rules dictate that it's okay to resist arrest IF your innocence is proven.

    Barnes goes free.

    What do you mean arrest? Wasn't nobody gonna arrest Bucky until Cap got between them and him.

    EDIT: To ve clear Im saying that the meant sent to deal with Bucky were clearly sent to kill him not attempt to arrest him.

    nightmarenny on
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  • KashaarKashaar Low OrbitRegistered User regular
    So idk what everyone was on about, Iron Fist is awesome.

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  • UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    Kashaar wrote: »
    So idk what everyone was on about, Iron Fist is awesome.

    It has its own thread FYI

  • Rorshach KringleRorshach Kringle that crustache life Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    The war criminal James Buchanan Barnes should be executed for his crimes against humanity.

    but enough about his shitty haircut

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  • WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Tony was wrong, and not only was he wrong in what he did, he was doing it because he personally couldn't shoulder the weight of his own mistakes

    Cap was right, and not only was he right, he shouldered the weight of all of their mistakes, made them his own, and said "we must persevere"

    #TeamCap

    Hulk peaced on all that shit before it started, the true correct answer
    #TeamHulk

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  • DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator, Administrator admin
    I've definitely said this before on here, but if Civil War didn't come out like, a month after Batman v Superman, its reception would be much poorer critically. Like, half the reviews just used it as a way to dunk on Zack Snyder.

  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    I think Civil War wasn't as good as Winter Soldier, but it was a bit better than First Avengers (which I actually really like)

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Civil War will always be an inferior film to Winter Soldier because it doesn't work as a stand-alone piece.

    You can watch and enjoy Winter Soldier without having seen a single other MCU film.

    You'll have no fucking clue what's going on or who these people are if you go into Civil War without having watched not just all the previous Captain America films, but also, at the bare minimum, both Avengers films and Ant-Man.

  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular

    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Civil War will always be an inferior film to Winter Soldier because it doesn't work as a stand-alone piece.

    You can watch and enjoy Winter Soldier without having seen a single other MCU film.

    You'll have no fucking clue what's going on or who these people are if you go into Civil War without having watched not just all the previous Captain America films, but also, at the bare minimum, both Avengers films and Ant-Man.
    This ain't true

    Like

    It isn't as seamless of a trick as Avengers but I watched Civil War with someone who had only seen up to the first Avengers movie and they understood it just fine

    You don't really need to explain shit like Ant-Man and Vision and whatnot

    It's a world full of superheroes, they are other superheroes. That's all the context you strictly need.

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Blank, I am thinking of an "average" movie-goer when I make that statement.

    Someone like, say, my mother, who once saw Skyfall by accident because she had actually wanted to see Flight.

  • masterofmetroidmasterofmetroid Have you ever looked at a world and seen it as a kind of challenge?Registered User regular
    Civil War is a better film with the previous context of each of the characters, but it still works if you don't know much about any of them

    It was a really good decision to take the fight from moral debate to intensely personal scrapping where everyone is just a little bit emotionally compromised

    You don't need to know a whole ton of outside backstory to understand why people are making the choices they make

  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    First Avenger > Civil War > Winter Soldier imo

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  • ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Tony was wrong, and not only was he wrong in what he did, he was doing it because he personally couldn't shoulder the weight of his own mistakes

    Cap was right, and not only was he right, he shouldered the weight of all of their mistakes, made them his own, and said "we must persevere"

    #TeamCap

    Steve was overly prideful and dangerously arrogant, placing his own judgement over the unified body of 117 countries. He was emotionally compromised on two different fronts, and lets not forget that he actively withheld secrets from his teammates.

    Tony was trying to weather a storm and keep his team together in the face of a global shut-down.

    #TeamIronMan

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  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Both men were emotionally comprimsed in their own ways and made decisions that could have been avoided to de-escalate things because of their pride.

    #TeamPanther

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  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Everything worked out perfectly.

    #teamzemo

  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Tony was wrong, and not only was he wrong in what he did, he was doing it because he personally couldn't shoulder the weight of his own mistakes

    Cap was right, and not only was he right, he shouldered the weight of h
    Zonugal wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    Tony was wrong, and not only was he wrong in what he did, he was doing it because he personally couldn't shoulder the weight of his own mistakes

    Cap was right, and not only was he right, he shouldered the weight of all of their mistakes, made them his own, and said "we must persevere"

    #TeamCap

    Steve was overly prideful and dangerously arrogant, placing his own judgement over the unified body of 117 countries. He was emotionally compromised on two different fronts, and lets not forget that he actively withheld secrets from his teammates.

    Tony was trying to weather a storm and keep his team together in the face of a global shut-down.

    #TeamIronMan

    Cap said that the morality of nations cannot be trusted with the power of the Avengers and he's not wrong, he said that Tony was using the accords as his own personal flagellation and he's not wrong, he said that nothing would change but that they would have the luxury of casting off responsibility to others but really it would still lie with them and he's not wrong.

    He went off the rails to save an innocent man from being killed for something he didn't do. He is the hero!

  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Tony was wrong, and not only was he wrong in what he did, he was doing it because he personally couldn't shoulder the weight of his own mistakes

    Cap was right, and not only was he right, he shouldered the weight of h
    Zonugal wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    Tony was wrong, and not only was he wrong in what he did, he was doing it because he personally couldn't shoulder the weight of his own mistakes

    Cap was right, and not only was he right, he shouldered the weight of all of their mistakes, made them his own, and said "we must persevere"

    #TeamCap

    Steve was overly prideful and dangerously arrogant, placing his own judgement over the unified body of 117 countries. He was emotionally compromised on two different fronts, and lets not forget that he actively withheld secrets from his teammates.

    Tony was trying to weather a storm and keep his team together in the face of a global shut-down.

    #TeamIronMan

    Cap said that the morality of nations cannot be trusted with the power of the Avengers and he's not wrong, he said that Tony was using the accords as his own personal flagellation and he's not wrong, he said that nothing would change but that they would have the luxury of casting off responsibility to others but really it would still lie with them and he's not wrong.

    He went off the rails to save an innocent man from being killed for something he didn't do. He is the hero!

    I understand most of the protony arguments even if I dont agree with them but I find it genuinely perplexing to have to argue that Steve did nothing wrong in trying to save someone from being killed by the government due to a miaunderstanding.

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  • ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    Steve Rogers has the miraculous fortune of having never been in the wrong or made a huge mistake.

    And he carries that around in as smug a way as possible in that film.

    Zonugal on
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  • ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    @Solar, I am genuinely interested, what do you think Steve would have done if the United Nations had gone ahead and made the Avengers an illegal task force?

    Where does he maintain a head-quarters? How does he maintain resources for missions?

    Zonugal on
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  • GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Everything worked out perfectly.

    #teamzemo

    Zemo was basically a dude who just thought there were too many superhero movies. And I respect that.

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  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    Zonugal wrote: »
    Steve Rogers has the miraculous fortune of having never been in the wrong or made a huge mistake.

    And he carries that around in as smug a way as possible in that film.
    What?
    Like, a huge part of why Steve takes the stance he does is because he made a huge mistake before. He went along with SHIELD, even when he didn't like or trust what they were doing, and it almost led to a global disaster.

  • David_TDavid_T A fashion yes-man is no good to me. Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered User regular
    Because otherwise they're not wings, they're just meat.

    #TeamBoneIn

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  • I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    David_T wrote: »
    Because otherwise they're not wings, they're just meat.

    #TeamBoneIn

    do you have a problem with meat buddy

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  • ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Zonugal wrote: »
    Steve Rogers has the miraculous fortune of having never been in the wrong or made a huge mistake.

    And he carries that around in as smug a way as possible in that film.
    What?
    Like, a huge part of why Steve takes the stance he does is because he made a huge mistake before. He went along with SHIELD, even when he didn't like or trust what they were doing, and it almost led to a global disaster.

    But Steve Rogers didn't create Project Insight.

    He is compliant in SHIELD right up till he hears about it and immediately quits.

    He hasn't made a huge-ass mistake or been proven wrong for one of his direct actions.

    Steve Rogers greatest superpower is the ability to always be in the right during any conflict/incident, and by the time of Civil War that has made him incredibly cocky.

    Zonugal on
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  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    Zonugal wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Zonugal wrote: »
    Steve Rogers has the miraculous fortune of having never been in the wrong or made a huge mistake.

    And he carries that around in as smug a way as possible in that film.
    What?
    Like, a huge part of why Steve takes the stance he does is because he made a huge mistake before. He went along with SHIELD, even when he didn't like or trust what they were doing, and it almost led to a global disaster.

    But Steve Rogers didn't create Project Insight.

    He is compliant in SHIELD right up till he hears about it and immediately quits.

    He's made a huge-ass mistake or been proven wrong for one of his direct actions.

    Steve Rogers greatest superpower is the ability to always be in the right during any conflict/incident, and by the time of Civil War that has made him incredibly cocky.

    Point of order.
    He didn't quit SHIELD when he heard about insight. Heck he didn't even quit at all so much as get attack by a SHIELD hit squad and decide sticking around wasn't a good idea.

    Steve talked a big game but he wasn't willing to put it to action until he realized that things were so much worse.

    nightmarenny on
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  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Steve in Civil War wasn't cocky, he struggled with the choices because he didn't want the conflict. But in the end be could only do what his strong sense of personal responsibility and morality told him was right; to try and protect people, innocent people (of whom Bucky is one, certainly of the crime he was going to be killed for).

    @Zonugal I think he would have tried, yes, as is the right thing for him to do, but I think he would have struggled and probably failed to be as effective. But I think he would have probably preferred a hobbled Avengers acting on moral impetus than a more effective Avengers subject to international political aims. Because he's 100% right there, the first time they are told to do something they don't want to, or don't do something they do, the accords will be ignored, they're just too invested in trying to do what's right.

    As we see quite clearly when Steve goes off on an unsanctioned and unreported mission because he knows he'll be told no and doesn't want to follow the accords. We see them fail the very first time one of their architects is tested!

  • David_TDavid_T A fashion yes-man is no good to me. Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered User regular
    edited March 2017
    David_T wrote: »
    Because otherwise they're not wings, they're just meat.

    #TeamBoneIn

    do you have a problem with meat buddy

    I'm... not allowed to talk about my meat buddy, according to the court order.

    David_T on
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  • Librarian's ghostLibrarian's ghost Librarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSpork Registered User regular
    Wow so using Marvel Unlimited on a surface pro just straight up doesn't work, does it.

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  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    As much as I love Winter Soldier

    It totally would have been a better movie if they forced them to confront the fact that Project Insight was super fucked up even if an evil shadow organization hadn't hijacked it

    Like, by having Hydra turn an already explicitly evil project MORE EVIL, they sort of washed away just how fucked up it was in the first place and how SHIELD was totally responsible for trying to create big brother with miniguns in the sky

  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    edited March 2017
    Maddoc wrote: »
    As much as I love Winter Soldier

    It totally would have been a better movie if they forced them to confront the fact that Project Insight was super fucked up even if an evil shadow organization hadn't hijacked it

    Like, by having Hydra turn an already explicitly evil project MORE EVIL, they sort of washed away just how fucked up it was in the first place and how SHIELD was totally responsible for trying to create big brother with miniguns in the sky

    Steve calls it out before anyone even mentions Hydra, and for some really good points.

    To me the Hydra reveal wasn't "Oh, it's fucked up now" it was "Oh, now everyone realizes how bad it is". It shows people that even though normal people support it, it's so bad that even the "We're totally not nazi's, promise" guys support it.

    Like, when people say something on twitter and an Alt-Right personality retweets it with support, you expect that they should go "Oh....maybe I should rethink my position" not "It's only bad now that the Alt-Right is involved".

    Dedwrekka on
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    Nazis think this is a good idea!

    Probably means you really fucked up

  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    The problem is that the movie never addresses it past that complaint that Steve gives that is totally handwaved away

    The project doesn't roll out as expected, it's been "corrupted" by Hydra, and the closest they come to owning up to the idea that their horrible pre-crime murder platforms might be a bad thing is that they could be used by the wrong people

    Like nobody except Steve in the entire movie is thinking "Oh we really shouldn't launch these things" until they find out it's been compromised by Hydra

    Maddoc on
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    Yeah, that really bugs me

    TWS is probably still my favorite Avengers movie though

This discussion has been closed.