There's a Suramar portal for the demon area to the Southwest.
Also, you don't have to do the entire Highmountain campaign to unlock Rehgar; though you do have to do *most* of it. It's worth it, though, because Rehgar buffs your wolf form to mounted speed (it's like cheating when you're inside caves).
The Elite Island in Stormheim has a grapple point on the far West end, if you take the coast around. It's still an annoying place for WQs.
I'm trying to figure out how to describe this last part. If you need to get to the area in the far East of Stormheim where you get all trippy and foggy and fight....more vikings; the easiest way is to fly to the SE flight point in Stormheim (I cannot remember the name, and I'm at work). Aim north, jump, pop a glider, and you'll land right there.
0
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
There's a Suramar portal for the demon area to the Southwest.
Also, you don't have to do the entire Highmountain campaign to unlock Rehgar; though you do have to do *most* of it. It's worth it, though, because Rehgar buffs your wolf form to mounted speed (it's like cheating when you're inside caves).
The Elite Island in Stormheim has a grapple point on the far West end, if you take the coast around. It's still an annoying place for WQs.
I'm trying to figure out how to describe this last part. If you need to get to the area in the far East of Stormheim where you get all trippy and foggy and fight....more vikings; the easiest way is to fly to the SE flight point in Stormheim (I cannot remember the name, and I'm at work). Aim north, jump, pop a glider, and you'll land right there.
The portal for the demon area puts you deep inside a mini-dungeon thing. All the quests are outside the demon area up high on the ledge, with no way up there other than to run the perimeter of the demon area. It's honestly faster to either port to Suramar City and run the outside or just run from the main hub without using a portal, but that's still a long ways.
And yes, I know there's a grapple point there SOMEWHERE but I can literally never find it everytime I go there, even though I've used it before. It's very hard to see, plus it's just annoying having to water mount around the island to get to (remember when Blizzard was going to break water striders?)
For the vrykul town, if your glider is up, that's fine. If it's on 15 minute cooldown, you're screwed. It's still a long trek if your glider is up since no flight paths are that close. But still, same problem with most areas below the cliffs - like the mistweaver/Maw area (not as bad, there is a path down near the flight path, though you have to run through a bunch of mobs) or all the things along the northern coast
Honestly they should have done more with grapples and rooftops in Suramar City. Have the players sneaking around above, maybe occasionally having to kill a guard before they drop down to an objective.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
+8
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
Honestly they should have done more with grapples and rooftops in Suramar City. Have the players sneaking around above, maybe occasionally having to kill a guard before they drop down to an objective.
Maybe but I almost always had a horrible time actually finding the grapples that do exist. They are so hard to see from the ground, and kind of in odd places sometimes.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
They should have made DH glide be as fast as a goblin glider. It's not like it'd give me any advantage, I can buy them as easily as anyone. Don't think it's too much to ask to have our unique ability save me 50 silver per glide.
Well, whatever, I'm just going to do all my Broken Shore WQs every day until I hit Revered I guess. Doesn't sound that bad, specially with the campaign quests helping.
Though IMO, you could reduce the invasion time to something like 4 hours and have them rotate.
+2
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Well, whatever, I'm just going to do all my Broken Shore WQs every day until I hit Revered I guess. Doesn't sound that bad, specially with the campaign quests helping.
Though IMO, you could reduce the invasion time to something like 4 hours and have them rotate.
That's what I'm going to do. Like I posted above, while I'm happy to get flying and won't turn it down, it's far less useful in this expansion than in Warlords or previous expansions, so I don't feel the need to do a boring grind to get it a week sooner.
Was doing Elisandre, and the Time Stop debuff between phases didn't clear. Even after we killed her. It's still saying that I'm stunned and so can't cast anything or use my Hearthstone.
PMAvers on
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Was doing Elisandre, and the Time Stop debuff between phases didn't clear. Even after we killed her. It's still saying that I'm stunned and so can't cast anything or use my Hearthstone.
We had that happen to somebody last week. They had to reboot and log in an alt.
Was doing Elisandre, and the Time Stop debuff between phases didn't clear. Even after we killed her. It's still saying that I'm stunned and so can't cast anything or use my Hearthstone.
We had that happen to somebody last week. They had to reboot and log in an alt.
I ended up "clearing" it by having them pull Gul'dan, and a meteor from him killed me.
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Yeah, I just noticed on the app. Was about to go to bed, but given the stupid ass times of these things I figured I might as well log in and do it. So yay, I now have credit for one and could turn in the quest for a bunch of rep towards flying. (otherwise the rewards were pretty lame... the order resources I guess were nice given they are suddenly useful again)
I always wonder about complaints w/r/t navigating zones because it's like... do you just want every zone to be borean tundra? Topographical features are cool, and what they did with the dragons in stormheim is a good way to give people quick access to areas like high mountains without making you climb all the way up every time
also valsharah is by far the most annoying zone to navigate / do WQs in, just because there aren't enough flight paths and a lot of the zone is impassable.
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
+3
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Agreed, Valsharah is a billion times worse than Stormheim or Highmountain.
I always wonder about complaints w/r/t navigating zones because it's like... do you just want every zone to be borean tundra? Topographical features are cool, and what they did with the dragons in stormheim is a good way to give people quick access to areas like high mountains without making you climb all the way up every time
also valsharah is by far the most annoying zone to navigate / do WQs in, just because there aren't enough flight paths and a lot of the zone is impassable.
It depends entirely on how it's done, Stormheim mitigates a lot of the terrain issues with the grappling hook, as an example. My main complaint with Stormheim is that while the dragon will take you places, after I'm done saving his brood I'll go up to him and ask if I can get a ride back down, and he'll be like "do I look like a flight path to you?"
For the vrykul town, if your glider is up, that's fine. If it's on 15 minute cooldown, you're screwed. It's still a long trek if your glider is up since no flight paths are that close. But still, same problem with most areas below the cliffs - like the mistweaver/Maw area (not as bad, there is a path down near the flight path, though you have to run through a bunch of mobs) or all the things along the northern coast
I know you're talking about the toy, but Goblin Gliders have a 2min cooldown.
Now I want to go back and confirm but I'm 90% certain that the demon portal isn't inside a maze, but just inside one cave-type thing. I was specifically referring to the Nightfallen WQs that show up in the demon crater area SW of Suramar (i.e. "shoot the bat things that aren't bats," "kill that fat lady in the green pool," "fuck it, just kill lots of shit," and the pet battle that's down there). Upon further reading, I think we're talking about two different areas with "demon" quests.
0
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
I always wonder about complaints w/r/t navigating zones because it's like... do you just want every zone to be borean tundra? Topographical features are cool, and what they did with the dragons in stormheim is a good way to give people quick access to areas like high mountains without making you climb all the way up every time
also valsharah is by far the most annoying zone to navigate / do WQs in, just because there aren't enough flight paths and a lot of the zone is impassable.
It depends entirely on how it's done, Stormheim mitigates a lot of the terrain issues with the grappling hook, as an example. My main complaint with Stormheim is that while the dragon will take you places, after I'm done saving his brood I'll go up to him and ask if I can get a ride back down, and he'll be like "do I look like a flight path to you?"
Yeah, if it's done well, that's fine. I think the problem with Legion in particular is that there are a ton of those super high impassable cliffs which makes navigation annoying. The grappling hook mounts definitely help, except when they are not there, or really hard to see. And yeah, I just don't like that dragon in general. They could have just made that a flight path and made it less annoying to deal with. I know for me, I didn't even realize he would fly me up there for the LONGEST time and I was always running the long way up the mountain (the way you go the very first time).
But honestly, thinking back - Pandaria didn't allow flying until max level and I think most of those zones were fine to navigate. Krasarang Wilds may have had a few weird spots, but overall it was not bad. You can do zones that are interesting but not frustrating to the player to get around.
I think part of the problem is also exacerbated by world quests. Previously you'd have a daily quest hub you'd fly to. Then all your dailies would be concentrated in one location for the most part. So you weren't needing to globe-trot all over the zone like you do with world quests. You were visiting maybe 2-3 locations a day, often different ones each day, but it was concentrated. And they didn't tend to send you to places it was annoying to get to, so if anything like that existed, you maybe saw it once while questing and that was it.
For the vrykul town, if your glider is up, that's fine. If it's on 15 minute cooldown, you're screwed. It's still a long trek if your glider is up since no flight paths are that close. But still, same problem with most areas below the cliffs - like the mistweaver/Maw area (not as bad, there is a path down near the flight path, though you have to run through a bunch of mobs) or all the things along the northern coast
I know you're talking about the toy, but Goblin Gliders have a 2min cooldown.
Now I want to go back and confirm but I'm 90% certain that the demon portal isn't inside a maze, but just inside one cave-type thing. I was specifically referring to the Nightfallen WQs that show up in the demon crater area SW of Suramar (i.e. "shoot the bat things that aren't bats," "kill that fat lady in the green pool," "fuck it, just kill lots of shit," and the pet battle that's down there). Upon further reading, I think we're talking about two different areas with "demon" quests.
My inventory is limited enough as it is with all the extra shit they keep adding (seriously, why are treasure maps individual items you have to keep in your inventory? Or the Rogue treasure vault giving me a million items that do not stack.. Blizzard is always confused why people run out of bag space but then they do shit like this... ). I am not going to pay to have gliders clutter up more space...
And it's *kind of* a cave thing, but it's much longer. It's about 4 rooms deep, no mounting, full of demons. And I'm not talking about the world quests. Those I just glide down from the hub. I'm talking about the profession and archaeology quests - profession stuff (at least for leatherworking) in a cave that is the "entrance" to the demon area waaaaaaay in the back left section of it (no portals or flight paths anywhere close). The archaeology stuff is behind it up on the cliff, even more annoying to get over to (there's also Brann kind of by where the profession stuff is)
Here, I stole a picture off google and put arrows to illustrate (this was nice since the guy seemed to be on one of the archaeology quests :P):
Turns out the Cleansing Flame proc from the Draenor heirloom trinket (I have the Agi version but I assume there's one for every primary stat?) does not scale down in Timewalking dungeons. Equip it and watch yourself do 35k dps in TBC dungeons while the next best DPS is 3k.
Wife's away for a week and I feel like dipping my toe back into WoW... I feel like Blizzard used to hand out a week of free game time like candy, i.e., whenever I wanted to see what was new in WoW, I always used to have a trial waiting to tempt me back in... but no dice this time. Do you get a free month by purchasing Legion?
Update on the Draenor heirloom trinkets: looks like none of them scale properly in Timewalking. So if you have the trinket that procs 2000+ in your main stat, that's what you get in TW.
I greatly enjoyed being the top boss DPS by a huge margin on my Blood DK.
edit: Also killing trash packs with one Blood Boil.
Turned in a stack of Legionfall resources and one of the reward bags you get on top of the 150 rep and token was the shadow priest belt and my 9th legendary.
One more and i can summon the eternal dragon or some such nonsense.
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
It's funny, for all the complaining about the Legion invasions, I've now got 3 of the 4 zones done, mostly due to noticing it up at lucky times (often right before going to bed). Still, the way they've handled those is so dumb. They could have easily left it as part of the meta and just made the spawn times more reasonable.
It's funny, for all the complaining about the Legion invasions, I've now got 3 of the 4 zones done, mostly due to noticing it up at lucky times (often right before going to bed). Still, the way they've handled those is so dumb. They could have easily left it as part of the meta and just made the spawn times more reasonable.
Yeah, several people on my guild just got the archie today. I didn't, because of that timing issue and on top of that, getting bugs like what happens when you DC in the middle of an scenario* is incredibly inconvenient, so I'm only 2/4.
*You don't get kicked out. You get a new instance of the scenario, that you can't exit without hearthing.....and you can't kill anything on the ship because mobs just fall from it. Like, literally go through the floor in the second you hit them.
Unlocked flying a few hours ago, pretty much trivializes hunting down chests to the point where depending on how prolific they are it's actually better for me to do that than farm through a Sentinax group.
The rewards are kinda really huge from invasions and it's hard to level in a zone while they're running (scaling is not enough, fighting guys with 5m hp when I had 400k) so I understand why they didn't want to make them an all the time thing.
0
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
The rewards are kinda really huge from invasions and it's hard to level in a zone while they're running (scaling is not enough, fighting guys with 5m hp when I had 400k) so I understand why they didn't want to make them an all the time thing.
Seems like they could have just phased them to only show for level 110....
I sorta wonder why the caches weren't phased like timeless isle. The competitive tagging with mobs, chests, and resource nodes was something they had fixed with legion, adding it back on a major patch seems like a bad idea.
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I sorta wonder why the caches weren't phased like timeless isle. The competitive tagging with mobs, chests, and resource nodes was something they had fixed with legion, adding it back on a major patch seems like a bad idea.
the caches work the same way other chests and resource nodes in Legion work, though
I sorta wonder why the caches weren't phased like timeless isle. The competitive tagging with mobs, chests, and resource nodes was something they had fixed with legion, adding it back on a major patch seems like a bad idea.
the caches work the same way other chests and resource nodes in Legion work, though
Mob tagging in invasions and especially Sentinax portals is bullshit though. I hate competing against my own faction, especially on a PvP server where Alliance and Horde regularly fight over farming sites. Sucks to help Horde take control of a Sentinax site only to be sidelined by your own faction.
Then again, as Enha Shaman I can use Fury of Air to insta-tag everything around me. That helps. Then you get whispered threats, and after that people will bring their Alliance alts/friends to kill you. So then you get pissed off and proceed to be a huge pain in their ass. At some point Alliance shows up in great numbers and kills everyone, and now you want to kill them, and suddenly you realize you've spent several hours trying to be the biggest asshole in World of Warcraft without accomplishing anything.
Huh, there are now disguises for the Opening the Dark Portal TW dungeon?
And it looks like the water's back.
Yeah, I noticed that last night as well. It also seemed super bugged, my character got stuck in animations all the time. At first I thought I was lagging, but there was no delay in actual gameplay, just frozen animations.
I sorta wonder why the caches weren't phased like timeless isle. The competitive tagging with mobs, chests, and resource nodes was something they had fixed with legion, adding it back on a major patch seems like a bad idea.
the caches work the same way other chests and resource nodes in Legion work, though
Mob tagging in invasions and especially Sentinax portals is bullshit though. I hate competing against my own faction, especially on a PvP server where Alliance and Horde regularly fight over farming sites. Sucks to help Horde take control of a Sentinax site only to be sidelined by your own faction.
Then again, as Enha Shaman I can use Fury of Air to insta-tag everything around me. That helps. Then you get whispered threats, and after that people will bring their Alliance alts/friends to kill you. So then you get pissed off and proceed to be a huge pain in their ass. At some point Alliance shows up in great numbers and kills everyone, and now you want to kill them, and suddenly you realize you've spent several hours trying to be the biggest asshole in World of Warcraft without accomplishing anything.
I mean, just hypothetically speaking.
Do tag limits count players individually, or do groups count as one?
'cause shouldn't some of that be alleviated by just forming a group to share tags?
I don't really have firsthand experience with that being a problem. A mob or two might grey out, but otherwise either I tagged it or it was dead before I had the chance anyway.
I sorta wonder why the caches weren't phased like timeless isle. The competitive tagging with mobs, chests, and resource nodes was something they had fixed with legion, adding it back on a major patch seems like a bad idea.
the caches work the same way other chests and resource nodes in Legion work, though
Mob tagging in invasions and especially Sentinax portals is bullshit though. I hate competing against my own faction, especially on a PvP server where Alliance and Horde regularly fight over farming sites. Sucks to help Horde take control of a Sentinax site only to be sidelined by your own faction.
Then again, as Enha Shaman I can use Fury of Air to insta-tag everything around me. That helps. Then you get whispered threats, and after that people will bring their Alliance alts/friends to kill you. So then you get pissed off and proceed to be a huge pain in their ass. At some point Alliance shows up in great numbers and kills everyone, and now you want to kill them, and suddenly you realize you've spent several hours trying to be the biggest asshole in World of Warcraft without accomplishing anything.
I mean, just hypothetically speaking.
Do tag limits count players individually, or do groups count as one?
'cause shouldn't some of that be alleviated by just forming a group to share tags?
I don't really have firsthand experience with that being a problem. A mob or two might grey out, but otherwise either I tagged it or it was dead before I had the chance anyway.
General consensus among farm groups is that there's an absolute maximum of 5 same-faction tags before it grays out for everyone else. Bodyguards count towards this limit which is why a lot of groups get pissy about having bodyguards out.
Posts
Also, you don't have to do the entire Highmountain campaign to unlock Rehgar; though you do have to do *most* of it. It's worth it, though, because Rehgar buffs your wolf form to mounted speed (it's like cheating when you're inside caves).
The Elite Island in Stormheim has a grapple point on the far West end, if you take the coast around. It's still an annoying place for WQs.
I'm trying to figure out how to describe this last part. If you need to get to the area in the far East of Stormheim where you get all trippy and foggy and fight....more vikings; the easiest way is to fly to the SE flight point in Stormheim (I cannot remember the name, and I'm at work). Aim north, jump, pop a glider, and you'll land right there.
The portal for the demon area puts you deep inside a mini-dungeon thing. All the quests are outside the demon area up high on the ledge, with no way up there other than to run the perimeter of the demon area. It's honestly faster to either port to Suramar City and run the outside or just run from the main hub without using a portal, but that's still a long ways.
And yes, I know there's a grapple point there SOMEWHERE but I can literally never find it everytime I go there, even though I've used it before. It's very hard to see, plus it's just annoying having to water mount around the island to get to (remember when Blizzard was going to break water striders?)
For the vrykul town, if your glider is up, that's fine. If it's on 15 minute cooldown, you're screwed. It's still a long trek if your glider is up since no flight paths are that close. But still, same problem with most areas below the cliffs - like the mistweaver/Maw area (not as bad, there is a path down near the flight path, though you have to run through a bunch of mobs) or all the things along the northern coast
The other Highmountain thing I'm not a shaman :P
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Maybe but I almost always had a horrible time actually finding the grapples that do exist. They are so hard to see from the ground, and kind of in odd places sometimes.
Especially since it's about to become obsolete.
Though IMO, you could reduce the invasion time to something like 4 hours and have them rotate.
That's what I'm going to do. Like I posted above, while I'm happy to get flying and won't turn it down, it's far less useful in this expansion than in Warlords or previous expansions, so I don't feel the need to do a boring grind to get it a week sooner.
Was doing Elisandre, and the Time Stop debuff between phases didn't clear. Even after we killed her. It's still saying that I'm stunned and so can't cast anything or use my Hearthstone.
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We had that happen to somebody last week. They had to reboot and log in an alt.
I ended up "clearing" it by having them pull Gul'dan, and a meteor from him killed me.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Yeah, kinda had to extend lockout again and use Vantus Runes, but I'll take it.
Yeah, I just noticed on the app. Was about to go to bed, but given the stupid ass times of these things I figured I might as well log in and do it. So yay, I now have credit for one and could turn in the quest for a bunch of rep towards flying. (otherwise the rewards were pretty lame... the order resources I guess were nice given they are suddenly useful again)
also valsharah is by far the most annoying zone to navigate / do WQs in, just because there aren't enough flight paths and a lot of the zone is impassable.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
It depends entirely on how it's done, Stormheim mitigates a lot of the terrain issues with the grappling hook, as an example. My main complaint with Stormheim is that while the dragon will take you places, after I'm done saving his brood I'll go up to him and ask if I can get a ride back down, and he'll be like "do I look like a flight path to you?"
I know you're talking about the toy, but Goblin Gliders have a 2min cooldown.
Now I want to go back and confirm but I'm 90% certain that the demon portal isn't inside a maze, but just inside one cave-type thing. I was specifically referring to the Nightfallen WQs that show up in the demon crater area SW of Suramar (i.e. "shoot the bat things that aren't bats," "kill that fat lady in the green pool," "fuck it, just kill lots of shit," and the pet battle that's down there). Upon further reading, I think we're talking about two different areas with "demon" quests.
Yeah, if it's done well, that's fine. I think the problem with Legion in particular is that there are a ton of those super high impassable cliffs which makes navigation annoying. The grappling hook mounts definitely help, except when they are not there, or really hard to see. And yeah, I just don't like that dragon in general. They could have just made that a flight path and made it less annoying to deal with. I know for me, I didn't even realize he would fly me up there for the LONGEST time and I was always running the long way up the mountain (the way you go the very first time).
But honestly, thinking back - Pandaria didn't allow flying until max level and I think most of those zones were fine to navigate. Krasarang Wilds may have had a few weird spots, but overall it was not bad. You can do zones that are interesting but not frustrating to the player to get around.
I think part of the problem is also exacerbated by world quests. Previously you'd have a daily quest hub you'd fly to. Then all your dailies would be concentrated in one location for the most part. So you weren't needing to globe-trot all over the zone like you do with world quests. You were visiting maybe 2-3 locations a day, often different ones each day, but it was concentrated. And they didn't tend to send you to places it was annoying to get to, so if anything like that existed, you maybe saw it once while questing and that was it.
Edit:
My inventory is limited enough as it is with all the extra shit they keep adding (seriously, why are treasure maps individual items you have to keep in your inventory? Or the Rogue treasure vault giving me a million items that do not stack.. Blizzard is always confused why people run out of bag space but then they do shit like this... ). I am not going to pay to have gliders clutter up more space...
And it's *kind of* a cave thing, but it's much longer. It's about 4 rooms deep, no mounting, full of demons. And I'm not talking about the world quests. Those I just glide down from the hub. I'm talking about the profession and archaeology quests - profession stuff (at least for leatherworking) in a cave that is the "entrance" to the demon area waaaaaaay in the back left section of it (no portals or flight paths anywhere close). The archaeology stuff is behind it up on the cliff, even more annoying to get over to (there's also Brann kind of by where the profession stuff is)
Here, I stole a picture off google and put arrows to illustrate (this was nice since the guy seemed to be on one of the archaeology quests :P):
They removed the old "Welcome Back" thing a very long time ago too.
I greatly enjoyed being the top boss DPS by a huge margin on my Blood DK.
edit: Also killing trash packs with one Blood Boil.
One more and i can summon the eternal dragon or some such nonsense.
It generates the new ilvl upgrades, the same ol' equipment plus any new ones they may have added.
Yeah, several people on my guild just got the archie today. I didn't, because of that timing issue and on top of that, getting bugs like what happens when you DC in the middle of an scenario* is incredibly inconvenient, so I'm only 2/4.
*You don't get kicked out. You get a new instance of the scenario, that you can't exit without hearthing.....and you can't kill anything on the ship because mobs just fall from it. Like, literally go through the floor in the second you hit them.
Seems like they could have just phased them to only show for level 110....
the caches work the same way other chests and resource nodes in Legion work, though
Teeming/Explosives SUCKS for that first gauntlet, up to and right after the first boss. Especially on the packs that have now like seven guys.
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Mob tagging in invasions and especially Sentinax portals is bullshit though. I hate competing against my own faction, especially on a PvP server where Alliance and Horde regularly fight over farming sites. Sucks to help Horde take control of a Sentinax site only to be sidelined by your own faction.
Then again, as Enha Shaman I can use Fury of Air to insta-tag everything around me. That helps. Then you get whispered threats, and after that people will bring their Alliance alts/friends to kill you. So then you get pissed off and proceed to be a huge pain in their ass. At some point Alliance shows up in great numbers and kills everyone, and now you want to kill them, and suddenly you realize you've spent several hours trying to be the biggest asshole in World of Warcraft without accomplishing anything.
I mean, just hypothetically speaking.
And it looks like the water's back.
Yeah, I noticed that last night as well. It also seemed super bugged, my character got stuck in animations all the time. At first I thought I was lagging, but there was no delay in actual gameplay, just frozen animations.
Do tag limits count players individually, or do groups count as one?
'cause shouldn't some of that be alleviated by just forming a group to share tags?
I don't really have firsthand experience with that being a problem. A mob or two might grey out, but otherwise either I tagged it or it was dead before I had the chance anyway.
General consensus among farm groups is that there's an absolute maximum of 5 same-faction tags before it grays out for everyone else. Bodyguards count towards this limit which is why a lot of groups get pissy about having bodyguards out.