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[Legion] on FX: Season 2 is finished - beware open spoilers

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  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    So I'm thinking
    Lenny is the yellow eyed demon and wrote herself into Benny's place so David would implicitly trust her.

  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    Yeah, a lot of comic book fans are already guessing that
    Lenny is the yellow eyed demon, who is really the Shadow King.

    I'm guessing that the show won't go to the comics so quickly. After all, just because Lenny is the fist astral being introduced doesn't mean she's the only one. It would be interesting if there are multiple astral creatures trying to get in David's head and they have different agendas.

  • Captain MarcusCaptain Marcus now arrives the hour of actionRegistered User regular
    edited March 2017
    Booo. Boooooooo.
    Good job with the Lenny reveal, bad job with the naivete of not-Rogue and introducing and losing a character in a single episode. As soon as I heard "oh there's no need to mind-read this guy" it instantly means they're untrustworthy. Really, you could see the ending starting at the last fifteen minutes.

    Also is it me or is the constant filler of him running through the field/growing up starting to get old?

    Captain Marcus on
    ISIS delenda est
    RhalloTonny
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Man episode 4 was good. I still love just the look of this show.
    So the Benny/Lenny/Yellow Eyed King spoiler was great. Still not 100% sure what is real and what isn't. Like the slow down sign being kind of a joke. I am not sure that everyone was really out of his mind completely or if not out but still linked. And still not sure who is separate entity in his head verse a real person. I have a list of those who might be both or not? Either way this show is really good.

    On the field stuff, that I think is a projection he produces. Another false memory just like the dog.

    03x29di.png
  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    I really enjoy this show and, unlike most comic book influenced things, have absolutely zero knowledge of the basis for it, which is nice. Every episode I watch does make me depserately wish it were a Netflix Marvel show so I could just watch the whole thing without commercials...

    I'm going to go the other way from people's guesses:
    I don't think they're in David's head or in some astral construct he created. He doesn't know anything about Cary/Kerry and neither of them were involved in the initial inceptioning incident. Further, they made a point of mentioning that Syd's powers wouldn't work outside of her physical body in the last episode.

    Rather, I think Syd's mind is being impacted by the after-effects of having briefly had his powers when they swapped bodies and having confronted his demon when she followed him off into his astral construct in the last episode. I'm curious, though, whether it's making her forget that she's seen it the same way it does with David. It would certainly explain why she hasn't bothered to mention either it chasing them last episode or her instances of seeing it in this one.

    The weird dreamy-ness and unreality of the rest of the stuff that happens this episode is, I think, a combination of the show's weird aesthetic and a purposeful attempt to make you wonder whether any of this is real.

    PSN,Steam,Live | CptHamiltonian
    Doodmann
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    So did David really
    Assault the Doctor?

    Because that's messed up, but it was never the Doctor they spoke to, and did that memory even happen? Did David actually do it?

    Also some great character acting this episode

  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    So did David really
    Assault the Doctor?

    Because that's messed up, but it was never the Doctor they spoke to, and did that memory even happen? Did David actually do it?

    Also some great character acting this episode

    I'm pretty sure he did.
    He's been having flashes of the doctor's face all covered in blood in, I think, every instance of that scene and Memory Guy said in this episode he'd read reports describing the doctor's injuries.

    I don't think David was behind the wheel at the time, though. He thinks he broke in the steal stuff for drug money but, in fact, was driven to do it by his demon who wanted him to destroy the tape where he'd mentioned said demon's existence during a session. Doctor shows up, demon uses the opportunity to try to get rid of the other existing record of that conversation.

    I'm not sure whether the doctor lived or not, though. I suspect the memory of the girlfriend visiting the doctor at the lighthouse was implanted specifically so as to lure in Memory Guy if he went digging around.

    PSN,Steam,Live | CptHamiltonian
    Shazkar ShadowstormKana
  • RhalloTonnyRhalloTonny Of the BrownlandsRegistered User regular
    edited March 2017
    Yeah, introducing a character and then killing her off in the same episode felt a little rushed to me. What is The Eye's power?

    I thoroughly enjoy how they've gotten creative with powers, making the side-character mutants more than "oh they have spikes all over them" like in every X-Men movie. Cary's power is just so specific and odd that it's fantastic.


    I've been enjoying this show, but I still can't help but think that after the first episode all the weirdness is entirely contained to the story and not 'baked-in' in the cinematography/production. It's a bit of a shame because unnerving/weirdo stuff is happening all the time, but it's shot and edited very traditionally. On the Wes Anderson style front, that lighthouse was practically made for a Moonrise Kingdom/Life Aquatic miniature effect, but they just didn't go for it.

    Nitpicking a show that is a real surprise and antidote to the usual superhero stuff, I know, but it's just so close to really knocking it out.

    RhalloTonny on
    !
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    jermaine clement bein a jazz and beat poetry loving idiot in a fantasy land makes sense

    obF2Wuw.png
    SolarFeloniousmozKetarwebguy20RhalloTonnyabotkinEtiowsashoeboxjeddyscherbchenDoodmannThisGiggles_FunsworthEvil MultifariousJuliusjakobagger
  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    I really enjoy this show and, unlike most comic book influenced things, have absolutely zero knowledge of the basis for it, which is nice. Every episode I watch does make me depserately wish it were a Netflix Marvel show so I could just watch the whole thing without commercials...

    I'm going to go the other way from people's guesses:
    I don't think they're in David's head or in some astral construct he created. He doesn't know anything about Cary/Kerry and neither of them were involved in the initial inceptioning incident. Further, they made a point of mentioning that Syd's powers wouldn't work outside of her physical body in the last episode.

    Rather, I think Syd's mind is being impacted by the after-effects of having briefly had his powers when they swapped bodies and having confronted his demon when she followed him off into his astral construct in the last episode. I'm curious, though, whether it's making her forget that she's seen it the same way it does with David. It would certainly explain why she hasn't bothered to mention either it chasing them last episode or her instances of seeing it in this one.

    The weird dreamy-ness and unreality of the rest of the stuff that happens this episode is, I think, a combination of the show's weird aesthetic and a purposeful attempt to make you wonder whether any of this is real.

    But David
    doesn't need to have previous knowledge about anyone. He's telepathic. He's connected to Syd, Melanie, and Ptnomy's minds. He could also be reaching out to Cary/Kerry's mind or the Eye's mind.

    If he's as powerful as Professor X is in the movies, then he can read the minds of dozens of people at the same time.

  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    I really enjoy this show and, unlike most comic book influenced things, have absolutely zero knowledge of the basis for it, which is nice. Every episode I watch does make me depserately wish it were a Netflix Marvel show so I could just watch the whole thing without commercials...

    I'm going to go the other way from people's guesses:
    I don't think they're in David's head or in some astral construct he created. He doesn't know anything about Cary/Kerry and neither of them were involved in the initial inceptioning incident. Further, they made a point of mentioning that Syd's powers wouldn't work outside of her physical body in the last episode.

    Rather, I think Syd's mind is being impacted by the after-effects of having briefly had his powers when they swapped bodies and having confronted his demon when she followed him off into his astral construct in the last episode. I'm curious, though, whether it's making her forget that she's seen it the same way it does with David. It would certainly explain why she hasn't bothered to mention either it chasing them last episode or her instances of seeing it in this one.

    The weird dreamy-ness and unreality of the rest of the stuff that happens this episode is, I think, a combination of the show's weird aesthetic and a purposeful attempt to make you wonder whether any of this is real.

    But David
    doesn't need to have previous knowledge about anyone. He's telepathic. He's connected to Syd, Melanie, and Ptnomy's minds. He could also be reaching out to Cary/Kerry's mind or the Eye's mind.

    If he's as powerful as Professor X is in the movies, then he can read the minds of dozens of people at the same time.

    On that basis
    you could say at any point in the show, regardless of what happens, "Meh, he has godlike powers, it's still all just in his head."

    Or, basically equivalently, "Meh, he's completely insane and the entire show is a hallucination - he's actually still lying in bed in his room at Clockworks."

    PSN,Steam,Live | CptHamiltonian
  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    I really enjoy this show and, unlike most comic book influenced things, have absolutely zero knowledge of the basis for it, which is nice. Every episode I watch does make me depserately wish it were a Netflix Marvel show so I could just watch the whole thing without commercials...

    I'm going to go the other way from people's guesses:
    I don't think they're in David's head or in some astral construct he created. He doesn't know anything about Cary/Kerry and neither of them were involved in the initial inceptioning incident. Further, they made a point of mentioning that Syd's powers wouldn't work outside of her physical body in the last episode.

    Rather, I think Syd's mind is being impacted by the after-effects of having briefly had his powers when they swapped bodies and having confronted his demon when she followed him off into his astral construct in the last episode. I'm curious, though, whether it's making her forget that she's seen it the same way it does with David. It would certainly explain why she hasn't bothered to mention either it chasing them last episode or her instances of seeing it in this one.

    The weird dreamy-ness and unreality of the rest of the stuff that happens this episode is, I think, a combination of the show's weird aesthetic and a purposeful attempt to make you wonder whether any of this is real.

    But David
    doesn't need to have previous knowledge about anyone. He's telepathic. He's connected to Syd, Melanie, and Ptnomy's minds. He could also be reaching out to Cary/Kerry's mind or the Eye's mind.

    If he's as powerful as Professor X is in the movies, then he can read the minds of dozens of people at the same time.

    On that basis
    you could say at any point in the show, regardless of what happens, "Meh, he has godlike powers, it's still all just in his head."

    Or, basically equivalently, "Meh, he's completely insane and the entire show is a hallucination - he's actually still lying in bed in his room at Clockworks."

    They could say that. And how well that works out will depend on how they'll develop his abilities and how many clues they put into the show before the reveal.

  • WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    The entire show is actually just
    All in Jughead's head, who's just a figment of Archie's imagination in a completely different show!
    This show goes DEEP, wait'll the crossover!
    :p

    Steam! Battlenet:Wisemantobes#1508
    RhalloTonny
  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    The thing is that they have developed David's powers to a point that opens up a lot of crazy possibilities.
    Even if you assume that things are happening in the real world, it still means that David doesn't have to consciously use his clairvoyant abilities since Lenny used his clairvoyance to see what was happening to Syd and Lenny hid the fact that Syd was in the Eye's body to trick David into using his other powers. That would mean that Lenny or whatever other creatures that are inside David's head could use his powers to gain information about other people and create a false reality that's real enough to trick others.

    RhalloTonny
  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    The show is actually turning out to be more straightforward than I thought.

  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    The Lenny thing is a bit confusing to me.
    So there's a fat demon-looking guy inside his head. It's been disguising itself as Lenny? But then why is Lenny a woman? Wasn't Lenny really a man named Benny? But Lenny was a real person who died in the psych hospital. So who the fuck was Benny? Why the change?

    Or are Lenny and Fat-demon-guy different entities?

    RT800 on
    Doodmann
  • SelnerSelner Registered User regular
    RT800 wrote: »
    The Lenny thing is a bit confusing to me.
    So there's a fat demon-looking guy inside his head. It's been disguising itself as Lenny? But then why is Lenny a woman? Wasn't Lenny really a man named Benny? But Lenny was a real person who died in the psych hospital. So who the fuck was Benny? Why the change?

    Or are Lenny and Fat-demon-guy different entities?

    I've barely got a grasp, but here's what I think..
    I'm thinking that Lenny and Benny were real people who were controlled by the Astral Thing, and they interacted with David and the real world. Both real people are probably dead. We know Lenny is dead, but I wouldn't be surprised if the real world Lenny looks different from the Lenny in his head.

    I've read the wiki entry for Legion comics, so here are some spoiler thoughts based on that:
    It looks like the Shadow King is able to control all of David's powers at once? Is the show going to introduce the other personalities and their specific powers? Maybe that'll be at the end of the season, and if there's a 2nd season it'll be about exploring the multiple personalities. This first season is just about getting the Shadow King out of his head.

    And random thing, have any of you read the Legion novellas by Brandon Sanderson? It's basically an un-powered version of the comic Legion.
    There was even supposed to be a TV show about it, but this show seems to have killed momentum for it.

  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    The dog being called King is probably a big hint that it is the
    Shadow King, whether the Shadow King here is just a personality or someone else entirely is to be revealed. I think Lenny is either a preferred form over the fat and louty Benny, or someone who was important to David who has been written over Benny to make him more trusting and thus easier to manipulate and control. The Lenny in the hospital for instance could be the first time he ever met Lenny, and then the Shadow King wrote her into his life over Benny to have a longer and greater influence over him.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    yeah i actually quite like how direct its being

    they arent doing too much meta shit directly, theyre just using that as an opportunity to do really off kilter and bizarre visuals and in particular sounds

    so much of this is something that without the soundtrack would be merely comical, but instead ends up working really rather well. excellent sund wurk

    obF2Wuw.png
    HandgimpShazkar ShadowstormGiggles_FunsworthshoeboxjeddyArdolEtiowsaEvil Multifarious
  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    The Yellow Eyed Devil was actually with David from the very beginning:

    xlmslc.png

    Also, if that's a
    real memory, then that would suggest David was adopted when he was a baby since you can also see the star lamp.

    HandgimpGiggles_FunsworthRhalloTonnyHermano
  • themightypuckthemightypuck MontanaRegistered User regular
    I love this show.

    “Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears.”
    ― Marcus Aurelius

    Path of Exile: themightypuck
    HandgimpscherbchenGiggles_FunsworthArdol
  • Giggles_FunsworthGiggles_Funsworth Paranoiac Bay Area SprawlRegistered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    Personally, I need to rewatch the first episode before I will really understand it, I think.

    I love the 60s-but-not-too-60s aesthetic.

    It does more to signal comic book than maybe anything I have ever seen.

  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    There are some really interesting details in episode 5.
    The scene where David argues with Lenny in the red room is very reminiscent of the room 237 scene in The Shining where Jack goes into the bathroom and sees a beautiful woman who then turns into a decayed corpse when he kisses her. And that scene was about Jack being seduced by the power of the hotel and embracing its evil.

    The car they drove had the steering wheel on the right side of the car.

    Lenny wears a twizzler for a tie.

    The way that people got melted into the walls is kind of similar to Apocalypse's power in the movie.

    In the mental hospital scene, there's a new guy we've never seen before. His sister isn't there. The telekinetic is in a wheel chair. I wonder if that means he's a paraplegic and he's using his telekinesis to walk. And the Eye didn't have his cataract eye.

  • BedlamBedlam Registered User regular
    How long does it take to hit hulu?

  • Shazkar ShadowstormShazkar Shadowstorm Registered User regular
    scene
    where everything is no dialogue was a pretty cool thing to watch
    it's weird how much more tension that added

    poo
    scherbchenGiggles_FunsworthKetarArdolRhalloTonnyHermanoKana
  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    Bedlam wrote: »
    How long does it take to hit hulu?

    4 days after air date.

    Bedlam
  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    scene
    where everything is no dialogue was a pretty cool thing to watch
    it's weird how much more tension that added

    I wonder if they got the idea from
    this really creative fight between Batman and Shriek in Batman Beyond.

  • SelnerSelner Registered User regular

    I wonder if they got the idea from...

    When I saw that scene, I was more reminded of this:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hush_(Buffy_the_Vampire_Slayer)

    DiplominatorMahnmutHermano
  • WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    scene
    where everything is no dialogue was a pretty cool thing to watch
    it's weird how much more tension that added

    I wonder if they got the idea from
    this really creative fight between Batman and Shriek in Batman Beyond.


    If anything I was thinking of it being a
    "Nuff Said" thing,

    Steam! Battlenet:Wisemantobes#1508
  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    normally I half-watch TV shows and half do other stuff like browse twitter or play iPhone games or whatever

    when the sound went off the show had 100% of my attention

    Loren Michael on
    2ezikn6.jpg
    SmrtnikDoodmann
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    I watched the first two eps of this last night; visually it's wonderful and the story is fun to puzzle over, but I worry a little that it's the kind of thing that'll keep throwing "twists" at me until I get irritated

    NREqxl5.jpg
    do you lack faith, brother?
    or do you believe?
  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    Selner wrote: »

    I wonder if they got the idea from...

    When I saw that scene, I was more reminded of this:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hush_(Buffy_the_Vampire_Slayer)

    But that episode
    had sound. They just couldn't talk.

    In Legion, David/Lenny basically cast zone of silence, like Shriek did to Batman.

  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    I watched the first two eps of this last night; visually it's wonderful and the story is fun to puzzle over, but I worry a little that it's the kind of thing that'll keep throwing "twists" at me until I get irritated

    I wouldn't say they've done that so far, but then with the show still just starting really new information can be twisty...

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • BedlamBedlam Registered User regular
    There's only going to be 8 episodes in the first season and 5 of them are out all ready. I think the remaining episodes are going to deal more with exposition than mystery.

  • HandgimpHandgimp R+L=J Family PhotoRegistered User regular
    Yeah I think it'll be 2.5 eps of cleaning up this mess, with .5 ep setting up what's REALLY going on in David's head.

    PwH4Ipj.jpg
  • SelnerSelner Registered User regular
    Handgimp wrote: »
    Yeah I think it'll be 2.5 eps of cleaning up this mess, with .5 ep setting up what's REALLY going on in David's head.

    Yeah, they have to get the "parasite" out of his head and then figure out what is was hiding in his head. What are all the fake memories hiding?

    The short season doesn't give them a lot of room for on-going mysteries.

    Do we know if the show has been renewed? I don't know the time line for when show renewals are announced.

  • KruiteKruite Registered User regular
    I'm not convinced that lenny and Benny are purely manifestations of the yellow man. He freely jumps into those personalities, sure.

  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    Speculation on the primary memory that's being hidden from David:
    I think that he accidentally killed his adopted mother during one of his early power manifestations and it's why one of his personality splits is the angry boy. It's likely what drove his drug use and what he accidentally remembered during therapy, causing the yellow man to take over and break into the doctor's office.

    RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
    Come Overwatch with meeeee
    HandgimpSolarEvil MultifariousDoodmann
  • FrankiedarlingFrankiedarling Registered User regular
    I've been watching these pretty hard. Any theories on
    what did the stars say?

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    Kruite wrote: »
    I'm not convinced that lenny and Benny are purely manifestations of the yellow man. He freely jumps into those personalities, sure.

    in the comics
    Legion could 'absorb' people's personalities, temporarily or permanently if they died nearby or while 'on board' (this is how the shadow king gets stuck in there to begin with.) So it might be that Lenny was real at some point, but died and is now just a part of Legion's psyche and thus free for the shadow king to muck around with

    she was for example not present during his break-in to the doctor's office, which doesn't seem to make sense considering that she prompted the whole thing. We do see her interact with the ex-girlfriend when she eats the cake in the apartment though

    NREqxl5.jpg
    do you lack faith, brother?
    or do you believe?
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