Yeah, a lot of comic book fans are already guessing that
Lenny is the yellow eyed demon, who is really the Shadow King.
I'm guessing that the show won't go to the comics so quickly. After all, just because Lenny is the fist astral being introduced doesn't mean she's the only one. It would be interesting if there are multiple astral creatures trying to get in David's head and they have different agendas.
0
Captain Marcusnow arrives the hour of actionRegistered Userregular
edited March 2017
Booo. Boooooooo.
Good job with the Lenny reveal, bad job with the naivete of not-Rogue and introducing and losing a character in a single episode. As soon as I heard "oh there's no need to mind-read this guy" it instantly means they're untrustworthy. Really, you could see the ending starting at the last fifteen minutes.
Also is it me or is the constant filler of him running through the field/growing up starting to get old?
Man episode 4 was good. I still love just the look of this show.
So the Benny/Lenny/Yellow Eyed King spoiler was great. Still not 100% sure what is real and what isn't. Like the slow down sign being kind of a joke. I am not sure that everyone was really out of his mind completely or if not out but still linked. And still not sure who is separate entity in his head verse a real person. I have a list of those who might be both or not? Either way this show is really good.
On the field stuff, that I think is a projection he produces. Another false memory just like the dog.
I really enjoy this show and, unlike most comic book influenced things, have absolutely zero knowledge of the basis for it, which is nice. Every episode I watch does make me depserately wish it were a Netflix Marvel show so I could just watch the whole thing without commercials...
I'm going to go the other way from people's guesses:
I don't think they're in David's head or in some astral construct he created. He doesn't know anything about Cary/Kerry and neither of them were involved in the initial inceptioning incident. Further, they made a point of mentioning that Syd's powers wouldn't work outside of her physical body in the last episode.
Rather, I think Syd's mind is being impacted by the after-effects of having briefly had his powers when they swapped bodies and having confronted his demon when she followed him off into his astral construct in the last episode. I'm curious, though, whether it's making her forget that she's seen it the same way it does with David. It would certainly explain why she hasn't bothered to mention either it chasing them last episode or her instances of seeing it in this one.
The weird dreamy-ness and unreality of the rest of the stuff that happens this episode is, I think, a combination of the show's weird aesthetic and a purposeful attempt to make you wonder whether any of this is real.
Because that's messed up, but it was never the Doctor they spoke to, and did that memory even happen? Did David actually do it?
Also some great character acting this episode
I'm pretty sure he did.
He's been having flashes of the doctor's face all covered in blood in, I think, every instance of that scene and Memory Guy said in this episode he'd read reports describing the doctor's injuries.
I don't think David was behind the wheel at the time, though. He thinks he broke in the steal stuff for drug money but, in fact, was driven to do it by his demon who wanted him to destroy the tape where he'd mentioned said demon's existence during a session. Doctor shows up, demon uses the opportunity to try to get rid of the other existing record of that conversation.
I'm not sure whether the doctor lived or not, though. I suspect the memory of the girlfriend visiting the doctor at the lighthouse was implanted specifically so as to lure in Memory Guy if he went digging around.
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+2
RhalloTonnyOf the BrownlandsRegistered Userregular
edited March 2017
Yeah, introducing a character and then killing her off in the same episode felt a little rushed to me. What is The Eye's power?
I thoroughly enjoy how they've gotten creative with powers, making the side-character mutants more than "oh they have spikes all over them" like in every X-Men movie. Cary's power is just so specific and odd that it's fantastic.
I've been enjoying this show, but I still can't help but think that after the first episode all the weirdness is entirely contained to the story and not 'baked-in' in the cinematography/production. It's a bit of a shame because unnerving/weirdo stuff is happening all the time, but it's shot and edited very traditionally. On the Wes Anderson style front, that lighthouse was practically made for a Moonrise Kingdom/Life Aquatic miniature effect, but they just didn't go for it.
Nitpicking a show that is a real surprise and antidote to the usual superhero stuff, I know, but it's just so close to really knocking it out.
RhalloTonny on
!
0
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
jermaine clement bein a jazz and beat poetry loving idiot in a fantasy land makes sense
I really enjoy this show and, unlike most comic book influenced things, have absolutely zero knowledge of the basis for it, which is nice. Every episode I watch does make me depserately wish it were a Netflix Marvel show so I could just watch the whole thing without commercials...
I'm going to go the other way from people's guesses:
I don't think they're in David's head or in some astral construct he created. He doesn't know anything about Cary/Kerry and neither of them were involved in the initial inceptioning incident. Further, they made a point of mentioning that Syd's powers wouldn't work outside of her physical body in the last episode.
Rather, I think Syd's mind is being impacted by the after-effects of having briefly had his powers when they swapped bodies and having confronted his demon when she followed him off into his astral construct in the last episode. I'm curious, though, whether it's making her forget that she's seen it the same way it does with David. It would certainly explain why she hasn't bothered to mention either it chasing them last episode or her instances of seeing it in this one.
The weird dreamy-ness and unreality of the rest of the stuff that happens this episode is, I think, a combination of the show's weird aesthetic and a purposeful attempt to make you wonder whether any of this is real.
But David
doesn't need to have previous knowledge about anyone. He's telepathic. He's connected to Syd, Melanie, and Ptnomy's minds. He could also be reaching out to Cary/Kerry's mind or the Eye's mind.
If he's as powerful as Professor X is in the movies, then he can read the minds of dozens of people at the same time.
I really enjoy this show and, unlike most comic book influenced things, have absolutely zero knowledge of the basis for it, which is nice. Every episode I watch does make me depserately wish it were a Netflix Marvel show so I could just watch the whole thing without commercials...
I'm going to go the other way from people's guesses:
I don't think they're in David's head or in some astral construct he created. He doesn't know anything about Cary/Kerry and neither of them were involved in the initial inceptioning incident. Further, they made a point of mentioning that Syd's powers wouldn't work outside of her physical body in the last episode.
Rather, I think Syd's mind is being impacted by the after-effects of having briefly had his powers when they swapped bodies and having confronted his demon when she followed him off into his astral construct in the last episode. I'm curious, though, whether it's making her forget that she's seen it the same way it does with David. It would certainly explain why she hasn't bothered to mention either it chasing them last episode or her instances of seeing it in this one.
The weird dreamy-ness and unreality of the rest of the stuff that happens this episode is, I think, a combination of the show's weird aesthetic and a purposeful attempt to make you wonder whether any of this is real.
But David
doesn't need to have previous knowledge about anyone. He's telepathic. He's connected to Syd, Melanie, and Ptnomy's minds. He could also be reaching out to Cary/Kerry's mind or the Eye's mind.
If he's as powerful as Professor X is in the movies, then he can read the minds of dozens of people at the same time.
On that basis
you could say at any point in the show, regardless of what happens, "Meh, he has godlike powers, it's still all just in his head."
Or, basically equivalently, "Meh, he's completely insane and the entire show is a hallucination - he's actually still lying in bed in his room at Clockworks."
I really enjoy this show and, unlike most comic book influenced things, have absolutely zero knowledge of the basis for it, which is nice. Every episode I watch does make me depserately wish it were a Netflix Marvel show so I could just watch the whole thing without commercials...
I'm going to go the other way from people's guesses:
I don't think they're in David's head or in some astral construct he created. He doesn't know anything about Cary/Kerry and neither of them were involved in the initial inceptioning incident. Further, they made a point of mentioning that Syd's powers wouldn't work outside of her physical body in the last episode.
Rather, I think Syd's mind is being impacted by the after-effects of having briefly had his powers when they swapped bodies and having confronted his demon when she followed him off into his astral construct in the last episode. I'm curious, though, whether it's making her forget that she's seen it the same way it does with David. It would certainly explain why she hasn't bothered to mention either it chasing them last episode or her instances of seeing it in this one.
The weird dreamy-ness and unreality of the rest of the stuff that happens this episode is, I think, a combination of the show's weird aesthetic and a purposeful attempt to make you wonder whether any of this is real.
But David
doesn't need to have previous knowledge about anyone. He's telepathic. He's connected to Syd, Melanie, and Ptnomy's minds. He could also be reaching out to Cary/Kerry's mind or the Eye's mind.
If he's as powerful as Professor X is in the movies, then he can read the minds of dozens of people at the same time.
On that basis
you could say at any point in the show, regardless of what happens, "Meh, he has godlike powers, it's still all just in his head."
Or, basically equivalently, "Meh, he's completely insane and the entire show is a hallucination - he's actually still lying in bed in his room at Clockworks."
They could say that. And how well that works out will depend on how they'll develop his abilities and how many clues they put into the show before the reveal.
The thing is that they have developed David's powers to a point that opens up a lot of crazy possibilities.
Even if you assume that things are happening in the real world, it still means that David doesn't have to consciously use his clairvoyant abilities since Lenny used his clairvoyance to see what was happening to Syd and Lenny hid the fact that Syd was in the Eye's body to trick David into using his other powers. That would mean that Lenny or whatever other creatures that are inside David's head could use his powers to gain information about other people and create a false reality that's real enough to trick others.
So there's a fat demon-looking guy inside his head. It's been disguising itself as Lenny? But then why is Lenny a woman? Wasn't Lenny really a man named Benny? But Lenny was a real person who died in the psych hospital. So who the fuck was Benny? Why the change?
Or are Lenny and Fat-demon-guy different entities?
So there's a fat demon-looking guy inside his head. It's been disguising itself as Lenny? But then why is Lenny a woman? Wasn't Lenny really a man named Benny? But Lenny was a real person who died in the psych hospital. So who the fuck was Benny? Why the change?
Or are Lenny and Fat-demon-guy different entities?
I've barely got a grasp, but here's what I think..
I'm thinking that Lenny and Benny were real people who were controlled by the Astral Thing, and they interacted with David and the real world. Both real people are probably dead. We know Lenny is dead, but I wouldn't be surprised if the real world Lenny looks different from the Lenny in his head.
I've read the wiki entry for Legion comics, so here are some spoiler thoughts based on that:
It looks like the Shadow King is able to control all of David's powers at once? Is the show going to introduce the other personalities and their specific powers? Maybe that'll be at the end of the season, and if there's a 2nd season it'll be about exploring the multiple personalities. This first season is just about getting the Shadow King out of his head.
And random thing, have any of you read the Legion novellas by Brandon Sanderson? It's basically an un-powered version of the comic Legion.
There was even supposed to be a TV show about it, but this show seems to have killed momentum for it.
The dog being called King is probably a big hint that it is the
Shadow King, whether the Shadow King here is just a personality or someone else entirely is to be revealed. I think Lenny is either a preferred form over the fat and louty Benny, or someone who was important to David who has been written over Benny to make him more trusting and thus easier to manipulate and control. The Lenny in the hospital for instance could be the first time he ever met Lenny, and then the Shadow King wrote her into his life over Benny to have a longer and greater influence over him.
0
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
yeah i actually quite like how direct its being
they arent doing too much meta shit directly, theyre just using that as an opportunity to do really off kilter and bizarre visuals and in particular sounds
so much of this is something that without the soundtrack would be merely comical, but instead ends up working really rather well. excellent sund wurk
There are some really interesting details in episode 5.
The scene where David argues with Lenny in the red room is very reminiscent of the room 237 scene in The Shining where Jack goes into the bathroom and sees a beautiful woman who then turns into a decayed corpse when he kisses her. And that scene was about Jack being seduced by the power of the hotel and embracing its evil.
The car they drove had the steering wheel on the right side of the car.
Lenny wears a twizzler for a tie.
The way that people got melted into the walls is kind of similar to Apocalypse's power in the movie.
In the mental hospital scene, there's a new guy we've never seen before. His sister isn't there. The telekinetic is in a wheel chair. I wonder if that means he's a paraplegic and he's using his telekinesis to walk. And the Eye didn't have his cataract eye.
I watched the first two eps of this last night; visually it's wonderful and the story is fun to puzzle over, but I worry a little that it's the kind of thing that'll keep throwing "twists" at me until I get irritated
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I watched the first two eps of this last night; visually it's wonderful and the story is fun to puzzle over, but I worry a little that it's the kind of thing that'll keep throwing "twists" at me until I get irritated
I wouldn't say they've done that so far, but then with the show still just starting really new information can be twisty...
There's only going to be 8 episodes in the first season and 5 of them are out all ready. I think the remaining episodes are going to deal more with exposition than mystery.
Speculation on the primary memory that's being hidden from David:
I think that he accidentally killed his adopted mother during one of his early power manifestations and it's why one of his personality splits is the angry boy. It's likely what drove his drug use and what he accidentally remembered during therapy, causing the yellow man to take over and break into the doctor's office.
RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
Come Overwatch with meeeee
I'm not convinced that lenny and Benny are purely manifestations of the yellow man. He freely jumps into those personalities, sure.
in the comics
Legion could 'absorb' people's personalities, temporarily or permanently if they died nearby or while 'on board' (this is how the shadow king gets stuck in there to begin with.) So it might be that Lenny was real at some point, but died and is now just a part of Legion's psyche and thus free for the shadow king to muck around with
she was for example not present during his break-in to the doctor's office, which doesn't seem to make sense considering that she prompted the whole thing. We do see her interact with the ex-girlfriend when she eats the cake in the apartment though
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Posts
I'm guessing that the show won't go to the comics so quickly. After all, just because Lenny is the fist astral being introduced doesn't mean she's the only one. It would be interesting if there are multiple astral creatures trying to get in David's head and they have different agendas.
Also is it me or is the constant filler of him running through the field/growing up starting to get old?
On the field stuff, that I think is a projection he produces. Another false memory just like the dog.
I'm going to go the other way from people's guesses:
Rather, I think Syd's mind is being impacted by the after-effects of having briefly had his powers when they swapped bodies and having confronted his demon when she followed him off into his astral construct in the last episode. I'm curious, though, whether it's making her forget that she's seen it the same way it does with David. It would certainly explain why she hasn't bothered to mention either it chasing them last episode or her instances of seeing it in this one.
The weird dreamy-ness and unreality of the rest of the stuff that happens this episode is, I think, a combination of the show's weird aesthetic and a purposeful attempt to make you wonder whether any of this is real.
Because that's messed up, but it was never the Doctor they spoke to, and did that memory even happen? Did David actually do it?
Also some great character acting this episode
I'm pretty sure he did.
I don't think David was behind the wheel at the time, though. He thinks he broke in the steal stuff for drug money but, in fact, was driven to do it by his demon who wanted him to destroy the tape where he'd mentioned said demon's existence during a session. Doctor shows up, demon uses the opportunity to try to get rid of the other existing record of that conversation.
I'm not sure whether the doctor lived or not, though. I suspect the memory of the girlfriend visiting the doctor at the lighthouse was implanted specifically so as to lure in Memory Guy if he went digging around.
I thoroughly enjoy how they've gotten creative with powers, making the side-character mutants more than "oh they have spikes all over them" like in every X-Men movie. Cary's power is just so specific and odd that it's fantastic.
I've been enjoying this show, but I still can't help but think that after the first episode all the weirdness is entirely contained to the story and not 'baked-in' in the cinematography/production. It's a bit of a shame because unnerving/weirdo stuff is happening all the time, but it's shot and edited very traditionally. On the Wes Anderson style front, that lighthouse was practically made for a Moonrise Kingdom/Life Aquatic miniature effect, but they just didn't go for it.
Nitpicking a show that is a real surprise and antidote to the usual superhero stuff, I know, but it's just so close to really knocking it out.
But David
If he's as powerful as Professor X is in the movies, then he can read the minds of dozens of people at the same time.
On that basis
Or, basically equivalently, "Meh, he's completely insane and the entire show is a hallucination - he's actually still lying in bed in his room at Clockworks."
They could say that. And how well that works out will depend on how they'll develop his abilities and how many clues they put into the show before the reveal.
Or are Lenny and Fat-demon-guy different entities?
I've barely got a grasp, but here's what I think..
I've read the wiki entry for Legion comics, so here are some spoiler thoughts based on that:
And random thing, have any of you read the Legion novellas by Brandon Sanderson? It's basically an un-powered version of the comic Legion.
There was even supposed to be a TV show about it, but this show seems to have killed momentum for it.
they arent doing too much meta shit directly, theyre just using that as an opportunity to do really off kilter and bizarre visuals and in particular sounds
so much of this is something that without the soundtrack would be merely comical, but instead ends up working really rather well. excellent sund wurk
Also, if that's a
― Marcus Aurelius
Path of Exile: themightypuck
It does more to signal comic book than maybe anything I have ever seen.
The car they drove had the steering wheel on the right side of the car.
Lenny wears a twizzler for a tie.
The way that people got melted into the walls is kind of similar to Apocalypse's power in the movie.
In the mental hospital scene, there's a new guy we've never seen before. His sister isn't there. The telekinetic is in a wheel chair. I wonder if that means he's a paraplegic and he's using his telekinesis to walk. And the Eye didn't have his cataract eye.
it's weird how much more tension that added
4 days after air date.
I wonder if they got the idea from
When I saw that scene, I was more reminded of this:
If anything I was thinking of it being a
when the sound went off the show had 100% of my attention
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
But that episode
In Legion, David/Lenny basically cast zone of silence, like Shriek did to Batman.
I wouldn't say they've done that so far, but then with the show still just starting really new information can be twisty...
Yeah, they have to get the "parasite" out of his head and then figure out what is was hiding in his head. What are all the fake memories hiding?
The short season doesn't give them a lot of room for on-going mysteries.
Do we know if the show has been renewed? I don't know the time line for when show renewals are announced.
Come Overwatch with meeeee
in the comics
she was for example not present during his break-in to the doctor's office, which doesn't seem to make sense considering that she prompted the whole thing. We do see her interact with the ex-girlfriend when she eats the cake in the apartment though
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat