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    mysticjuicermysticjuicer [he/him] I'm a muscle wizard and I cast P U N C HRegistered User regular
    2. Yomi or BattleCON.. ugh, that's a tough choice. Probably Yomi simply because its faster.

    Are you involved in the Yomi online tournament scene at all? If not, TEMPT TEMPT!

    I am not. I love the game, I've got the full set even, but I hardly ever get to play it, so I'm not particularly good.

    Fair. :) If you're ever interested in watching some games, I cast a bunch of online games with the goal of entertainment/helping people improve. Did some tutorials as well. If you follow '@IntlYomiLeague' on twitter, they post when there's casual games happening online, if you'd like to get some practice.

    narwhal wrote:
    Why am I Terran?
    My YouTube Channel! Featuring silly little Guilty Gear Strive videos and other stuff!
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    PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies drinking coffee in the mountain cabinRegistered User regular
    a
    I could narrow it down to one: Cthulhu Wars

    But the five would be

    Cthulhu Wars
    Inis
    Hive
    Codenames
    The current season of Pandemic Legacy

    that's a good list, i'll go with it except swap Hive for A Few Acres of Snow

    or if I actually have to own the games then idk

    Blood Rage
    Codenames
    Coup
    Marvel Legendary
    Arboretum

    sig.gif
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    CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    All y'all sons and daughters of bitches with your copies of Cthulhu Wars can fhtagn my big, white mglw'nafh.

    PSN,Steam,Live | CptHamiltonian
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    WearingglassesWearingglasses Of the friendly neighborhood variety Registered User regular
    edited July 2017
    I've been thinking on this, and I want to put out a question to you guys: Is the common configuration of "big rectangular game board divided into four/six equal squares connected to a side" the optimal option to making a game board? I was wondering if a taller box with a smaller footprint (containing a taller board stack composed of smaller squares) be better overall.

    Wearingglasses on
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    SokpuppetSokpuppet You only yoyo once Registered User regular
    4173ce1c99cb60e1fedb3668661209d7.jpg


    Go 3d or go home.

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    Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo We are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourse Registered User regular
    Mojo_Jojo wrote: »
    I've thought about the whole "If you could only keep 5 games" thing. It kind of gives me an anxiety attack.

    Oooh. This sounds like a good game

    Err
    Twilight Imperium even though it never makes the table because when it does it's such a marvellous event (less so each time as it shows its age more and more but nevertheless)

    Twilight Struggle because it's so deep and tactical and you learn something. Plus two player

    Tigris and Euphrates for being the most thematic dry euro possible that makes me want to play it more despite hating teaching it

    Trickerion to fill the worker placement slot with Victorian magicians.

    Tixid the rare backwards version of Dixit. I've slightly fallen out of love with this a bit but I don't know what I can replace it with as a party game. Maybe codenames but I find that that falls absolutely flat with some and others get stressed when being the codemaster

    Did you deliberately​ pick all games starting with T

    I got four in and spotted the trend. I probably have something else starting with T I could have chosen for completeness

    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
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    admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Sokpuppet wrote: »
    4173ce1c99cb60e1fedb3668661209d7.jpg


    Go 3d or go home.

    I dearly want that to be as cool as it looks, but it's obviously just 3D battleship.

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    Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    It's about striking the right balance. I don't know if the random replacement market is the correct answer. I do know that I don't like Dominion's system, in which it is completely static. Honestly I feel like you can skip a game of Dominion by seeing the initial layout, having each player write down their plan of card acquisition, and comparing their plans. I mean, yeah I am exaggerating but boy does it feel that way a lot of the time.

    I'm spacing on the name of the game but there was an Egyptian themed one where the cards were in a pyramid and you could only buy the bottom row but your buys determines how the other cards fell down and became available and that seemed smart?

    Star Realms would be a better game if you knew what cards were coming next in the market.

    I don't have the physical game but the variants I would test are

    Next card face up
    Next 5 cards face up
    Next 5 cards face and pre assigned to a market slot (so each market slot has the card you can buy and the next card available in it)
    Five cards in each slot face up (So deal out 5 stacks to make up the market and turn the top 5 over to have 1 buyable and next 4 that will come up)

    I have a thoughtful and infrequently updated blog about games http://whatithinkaboutwhenithinkaboutgames.wordpress.com/

    I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.

    Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
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    DirtmuncherDirtmuncher Registered User regular
    So how far along should a boardgame be if you were to back it on kickstarter?

    What sparked this question:
    I just saw 2 openings for puzzle designers for trilobytegames 7th guest game that allready funded on kickstarter.

    Puzzle games are not my cup of tea.
    But if I had backed then I would be worried because a main part of the game needs to be fleshed out.

    steam_sig.png
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    CampyCampy Registered User regular
    Man, I would love to get Cthulhu wars. Thematically it is all the way up my street, in my house, in my bedroom and in my mind haunting my nightmares. But that price tag is just too crazy. Is it worth it in terms of actual stuff you get with the game? I might be able to persuade my group to chip in or something.

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    Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    Campy wrote: »
    Man, I would love to get Cthulhu wars. Thematically it is all the way up my street, in my house, in my bedroom and in my mind haunting my nightmares. But that price tag is just too crazy. Is it worth it in terms of actual stuff you get with the game? I might be able to persuade my group to chip in or something.

    Despite Peterson Games slowly turning into garblegator fuck heads it's probably one of the two games I have in my collection that I would give a full 10 rating to. I hate games like Cthulhu Wars but lord do I love cthulhu wars.

    But I would super encourage you to find a copy and try it or maybe watch a playthrough on Youtube before you buy it. That price tag is no joke.

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    Mahou So-soMahou So-so Registered User regular
    I sold my copy of Cthulhu Wars. I think Kemet is a better game.

    Fight me.

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    Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    Nah, go play Kemet.

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    CampyCampy Registered User regular
    Well in a bid to fight off my Cthulhu lust, having seen it spoken of highly and seeing as my group isn't really playing the Cthulhu RPG anymore I've gone ahead and ordered Eldritch Horror.

    Hopefully it'll arrive in time ahead of Tuesday's gaming sesh.

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    SokpuppetSokpuppet You only yoyo once Registered User regular
    admanb wrote: »
    I dearly want that to be as cool as it looks, but it's obviously just 3D battleship.

    Point is, Sub Search was published in 1973.
    With modern materials, production, and design we should be able to...

    8-)

    blow that out of the water.

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    Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    My group just did not enjoy Eldritch Horror and we never figured out why. I guess it just feels so incredibly dry. The horror theme never really materializes at all.

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    SokpuppetSokpuppet You only yoyo once Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    It's about striking the right balance. I don't know if the random replacement market is the correct answer. I do know that I don't like Dominion's system, in which it is completely static. Honestly I feel like you can skip a game of Dominion by seeing the initial layout, having each player write down their plan of card acquisition, and comparing their plans. I mean, yeah I am exaggerating but boy does it feel that way a lot of the time.

    I'm spacing on the name of the game but there was an Egyptian themed one where the cards were in a pyramid and you could only buy the bottom row but your buys determines how the other cards fell down and became available and that seemed smart?

    Star Realms would be a better game if you knew what cards were coming next in the market.

    I don't have the physical game but the variants I would test are

    Next card face up
    Next 5 cards face up
    Next 5 cards face and pre assigned to a market slot (so each market slot has the card you can buy and the next card available in it)
    Five cards in each slot face up (So deal out 5 stacks to make up the market and turn the top 5 over to have 1 buyable and next 4 that will come up)

    7 Wonders: Duel takes this idea and runs off with it to the next level;

    card-layout.jpg


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    antheremantherem Registered User regular
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    My group just did not enjoy Eldritch Horror and we never figured out why. I guess it just feels so incredibly dry. The horror theme never really materializes at all.

    The horror part of Eldritch for us was playing Azathoth for our first game and hitting the "lose all your progress" event about an hour in.

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    Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo We are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourse Registered User regular
    Campy wrote: »
    Man, I would love to get Cthulhu wars. Thematically it is all the way up my street, in my house, in my bedroom and in my mind haunting my nightmares. But that price tag is just too crazy. Is it worth it in terms of actual stuff you get with the game? I might be able to persuade my group to chip in or something.

    It's not about the quantity of stuff it's that the minis are all really pleasingly large and high quality

    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
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    Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    edited July 2017
    Mojo_Jojo wrote: »
    Campy wrote: »
    Man, I would love to get Cthulhu wars. Thematically it is all the way up my street, in my house, in my bedroom and in my mind haunting my nightmares. But that price tag is just too crazy. Is it worth it in terms of actual stuff you get with the game? I might be able to persuade my group to chip in or something.

    It's not about the quantity of stuff it's that the minis are all really pleasingly large and high quality

    I wouldn't say they're high quality tho. A lot of mine fall apart regularly (but then I don't store them particularly well either). But I store all my CMON minis the same way and none of them fall apart so I don't know. It could just be the size.

    I also REALLY don;'t like who their new mini designer is. I loved Richard Launius' stuff but the new sculpts are pretty unimaginative.

    Magic Pink on
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    Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    antherem wrote: »
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    My group just did not enjoy Eldritch Horror and we never figured out why. I guess it just feels so incredibly dry. The horror theme never really materializes at all.

    The horror part of Eldritch for us was playing Azathoth for our first game and hitting the "lose all your progress" event about an hour in.

    holy crap. i didn't even know that was in there

    ON THE FIRE WITH IT

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    antheremantherem Registered User regular
    edited July 2017
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    Mojo_Jojo wrote: »
    Campy wrote: »
    Man, I would love to get Cthulhu wars. Thematically it is all the way up my street, in my house, in my bedroom and in my mind haunting my nightmares. But that price tag is just too crazy. Is it worth it in terms of actual stuff you get with the game? I might be able to persuade my group to chip in or something.

    It's not about the quantity of stuff it's that the minis are all really pleasingly large and high quality

    I wouldn't say they're high quality tho. A lot of mine fall apart regularly (but then I don't store them particularly well either). But I store all my CMON minis the same way and none of them fall apart so I don't know. It could just be the size.

    I also REALLY don;'t like who their new mini designer is. I loved Richard Launius' stuff but the new sculpts are pretty unimaginative.

    Some of the joins on even the wave 1 stuff are super dubious. Snapped Shub right off his base while putting him into play.
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    antherem wrote: »
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    My group just did not enjoy Eldritch Horror and we never figured out why. I guess it just feels so incredibly dry. The horror theme never really materializes at all.

    The horror part of Eldritch for us was playing Azathoth for our first game and hitting the "lose all your progress" event about an hour in.

    holy crap. i didn't even know that was in there

    ON THE FIRE WITH IT

    To be fair it isn't literally ALL of your progress, it's discard one solved mystery. But if you've only solved one mystery it's all of your progress.

    antherem on
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    Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    edited July 2017
    antherem wrote: »
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    Mojo_Jojo wrote: »
    Campy wrote: »
    Man, I would love to get Cthulhu wars. Thematically it is all the way up my street, in my house, in my bedroom and in my mind haunting my nightmares. But that price tag is just too crazy. Is it worth it in terms of actual stuff you get with the game? I might be able to persuade my group to chip in or something.

    It's not about the quantity of stuff it's that the minis are all really pleasingly large and high quality

    I wouldn't say they're high quality tho. A lot of mine fall apart regularly (but then I don't store them particularly well either). But I store all my CMON minis the same way and none of them fall apart so I don't know. It could just be the size.

    I also REALLY don;'t like who their new mini designer is. I loved Richard Launius' stuff but the new sculpts are pretty unimaginative.

    Some of the joins on even the wave 1 stuff are super dubious. Snapped Shub right off his base while putting him into play.

    poor shubby. :cry:

    it never wins anyway and then you gotta go break its foots off

    Magic Pink on
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    AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    The good news about Cthulhu Wars (and Eldritch for that matter) is that you can tell if you love the game or not just by playing the base experience.

    Also both of them are better, more streamlined versions of earlier games. If you like Chaos in the Old World or Arkham Horror but feel like they're not balanced, too cumbersome or fiddly, you're likely to enjoy Cthulhu Wars and Eldritch Horror.
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    My group just did not enjoy Eldritch Horror and we never figured out why. I guess it just feels so incredibly dry. The horror theme never really materializes at all.

    Well despite the theme it's really not a horror game, it's a supernatural adventure game with some tension to it. But then I'm not sure any FFG Lovecraft game is actually scary. Mansions maybe gets closest to that.

    ACsTqqK.jpg
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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    You should feel free to have a look at the mission and mythos cards before playing a game of Eldritch Horror and discard any you think would destroy your fun. Some are just plain mean and unfun. We also house-ruled the 'miss a turn' penalty to just losing one action, because come on miss a turn mechanics re garbage.

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    CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    Upon discovering the "discard a solved mystery" card we immediately house-ruled that that card does not exist and drew a different card.

    As someone who loves Arkham Horror, Eldritch Horror feels too...vague and spread out. With Arkham Horror you have a couple of points of tension always ratcheting up (monster count/the terror track, the doom track, and number of open gates) and with the way the (base) board is layed out by the mid-game there are almost always monsters in the way between where you are and where you're trying to go. When an environment card with a 'do X in Y turns or else Z' comes out it's usually a pretty tight deadline with a pretty bad result for failure.

    With Eldritch Horror's board's node connectivity layout and the much-less-dynamic rules for monster movement it's almost always easy for everyone except the heavy-hitter to avoid monster locations on their way to wherever. Gates aren't as big a deal and with the way the omen track interacts with gates it always seems like you've got at least a few turns to deal with problems.

    Arkham also has a lot more options for helping you move quickly around the board. Goals in Eldritch always seem to be far apart and it's pretty much 1-3 spaces a turn, so it's basically impossible to make a desperate rush across the board to deal with a gate or an environment card after someone dies/goes insane/gets delayed/whatever.

    Worst of all, though: Eldritch's goals are just too bland. I really like the investigation cards you draw when you go to get a clue token but the fact that the game's win-condition is tied to "finish three randomly-drawn mystery cards, which are usually of the form 'collect N clue tokens'" means most of the time you're just sort of wandering around the board looking for clue encounters. Arkham's goal of "close all gates or seal N gates" makes it feel like every turn where someone fights their way towards a gate, enters a gate, or tries to close a gate is progress toward winning and it's easy to see how far from victory/defeat you are at any given moment. Eldritch's Doom Track edges up pretty slowly and until you get up to the 3rd mystery you don't really know how far from the goal you are. It makes the whole first 2/3rds of the game feel sort of interminable.

    It doesn't help that Eldritch Horror also seems to have a base play-time of like 3 hours. A game of Arkham Horror could go super-long, especially if playing with expansion boards, but I've played it a lot of times and I'd say 3 hours is normally the cap.

    PSN,Steam,Live | CptHamiltonian
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    Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    Eldritch Horror is definitely the better game but Arkham Horror, for us, is just much more thematic and fun.

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    AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    Eldritch Horror is definitely the better game but Arkham Horror, for us, is just much more thematic and fun.

    I haven't even played Eldritch Horror, but CptHamilton nailed everything Horror does right and why we liked it so much back when I still played it regularly with my D&D buddies.

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    antheremantherem Registered User regular
    edited July 2017
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    antherem wrote: »
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    Mojo_Jojo wrote: »
    Campy wrote: »
    Man, I would love to get Cthulhu wars. Thematically it is all the way up my street, in my house, in my bedroom and in my mind haunting my nightmares. But that price tag is just too crazy. Is it worth it in terms of actual stuff you get with the game? I might be able to persuade my group to chip in or something.

    It's not about the quantity of stuff it's that the minis are all really pleasingly large and high quality

    I wouldn't say they're high quality tho. A lot of mine fall apart regularly (but then I don't store them particularly well either). But I store all my CMON minis the same way and none of them fall apart so I don't know. It could just be the size.

    I also REALLY don;'t like who their new mini designer is. I loved Richard Launius' stuff but the new sculpts are pretty unimaginative.

    Some of the joins on even the wave 1 stuff are super dubious. Snapped Shub right off his base while putting him into play.

    poor shubby. :cry:

    it never wins anyway and then you gotta go break its foots off

    It knows what it did

    antherem on
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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    I haven't played Chaos in the Old World in years now. :sad:

    And like hell I'll actually be able to get a hold of Cthulhu Wars, much less get it to the table.

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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Astaereth wrote: »
    The good news about Cthulhu Wars (and Eldritch for that matter) is that you can tell if you love the game or not just by playing the base experience.

    Also both of them are better, more streamlined versions of earlier games. If you like Chaos in the Old World or Arkham Horror but feel like they're not balanced, too cumbersome or fiddly, you're likely to enjoy Cthulhu Wars and Eldritch Horror.
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    My group just did not enjoy Eldritch Horror and we never figured out why. I guess it just feels so incredibly dry. The horror theme never really materializes at all.

    Well despite the theme it's really not a horror game, it's a supernatural adventure game with some tension to it. But then I'm not sure any FFG Lovecraft game is actually scary. Mansions maybe gets closest to that.

    Is Cthulhu Wars better balanced than CitOW? Because base Chaos, ignoring the expansion that totally fucks the balance, is a very tightly balanced game in my group's experience so if Cthulhu improves upon that, I'm super interested.

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    Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Astaereth wrote: »
    The good news about Cthulhu Wars (and Eldritch for that matter) is that you can tell if you love the game or not just by playing the base experience.

    Also both of them are better, more streamlined versions of earlier games. If you like Chaos in the Old World or Arkham Horror but feel like they're not balanced, too cumbersome or fiddly, you're likely to enjoy Cthulhu Wars and Eldritch Horror.
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    My group just did not enjoy Eldritch Horror and we never figured out why. I guess it just feels so incredibly dry. The horror theme never really materializes at all.

    Well despite the theme it's really not a horror game, it's a supernatural adventure game with some tension to it. But then I'm not sure any FFG Lovecraft game is actually scary. Mansions maybe gets closest to that.

    Is Cthulhu Wars better balanced than CitOW? Because base Chaos, ignoring the expansion that totally fucks the balance, is a very tightly balanced game in my group's experience so if Cthulhu improves upon that, I'm super interested.

    It WAS until Tcho-Tcho showed up. I'm assuming some of the newer independent monsters and GOOs are probably unbalanced as well but the core game is pretty rock solid.

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    AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    I think CW's chief balance improvement is that the factions are on more equitable footing; in CitOW I always felt like each player was playing a different game and that's not as true in CW. But CW also seems like a very well calibrated, heavily tested game to me in other respects, although I'm super not an expert in such things.

    ACsTqqK.jpg
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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Astaereth wrote: »
    I think CW's chief balance improvement is that the factions are on more equitable footing; in CitOW I always felt like each player was playing a different game and that's not as true in CW. But CW also seems like a very well calibrated, heavily tested game to me in other respects, although I'm super not an expert in such things.

    Ooof I really like games with hyper asymmetry so CW stepping away from that but getting better balance as a result leaves me feeling real conflicted.

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    JonBobJonBob Registered User regular
    So how far along should a boardgame be if you were to back it on kickstarter?
    It should have a finalized rulebook (bar some formatting and proofreading, perhaps). The gameplay should be final. Ideally, there should be a P&P available; I generally don't produce them, but if one is available other people will do it and will shout from the hilltops if the game is broken in some way.

    I will allow for some stretch-goal-style promo cards or components that are not 100% complete, if they are not intrinsic to gameplay. There should be a representative sample of artwork produced, but it's fine if there is a lot of other art coming that will be paid for by KS funds.

    jswidget.php?username=JonBob&numitems=10&header=1&text=none&images=small&show=recentplays&imagesonly=1&imagepos=right&inline=1&domains%5B%5D=boardgame&imagewidget=1
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    Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Astaereth wrote: »
    I think CW's chief balance improvement is that the factions are on more equitable footing; in CitOW I always felt like each player was playing a different game and that's not as true in CW. But CW also seems like a very well calibrated, heavily tested game to me in other respects, although I'm super not an expert in such things.

    Ooof I really like games with hyper asymmetry so CW stepping away from that but getting better balance as a result leaves me feeling real conflicted.

    There's still several factions that play crazy differently. Black Goat, Yellow Sign, Tcho-Tcho and Opener all work pretty differently either because of what they can do or what they can't.

    Plus it all gets extra crazy if you add the Independents. It's not lacking in asymmetry at all.

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    CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    edited July 2017
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Astaereth wrote: »
    I think CW's chief balance improvement is that the factions are on more equitable footing; in CitOW I always felt like each player was playing a different game and that's not as true in CW. But CW also seems like a very well calibrated, heavily tested game to me in other respects, although I'm super not an expert in such things.

    Ooof I really like games with hyper asymmetry so CW stepping away from that but getting better balance as a result leaves me feeling real conflicted.

    Yeah, one of my favorite things about CitOW, back when I had friends willing to play it with me, was that trying a different faction meant completely changing your play-style. I guess if CW isn't like that then I can slightly lessen my envy of those who get to play it.

    CptHamilton on
    PSN,Steam,Live | CptHamiltonian
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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Astaereth wrote: »
    I think CW's chief balance improvement is that the factions are on more equitable footing; in CitOW I always felt like each player was playing a different game and that's not as true in CW. But CW also seems like a very well calibrated, heavily tested game to me in other respects, although I'm super not an expert in such things.

    Ooof I really like games with hyper asymmetry so CW stepping away from that but getting better balance as a result leaves me feeling real conflicted.

    Yeah, one of my favorite things about CitOW, back when I had friends willing to play it with me, was that trying a different faction meant completely changing your play-style. I guess if CW isn't like that then I can slightly lessen my envy of those who get to play it.

    How differently each Old God played is both one of my favorite and least-favorite things about the game. I love how different each one plays, but I hate it because you basically have to have new players play four games of it before they truly "get" the game.

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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Oh well, kind of moot anyway I guess.

    I was humoring getting CW because my friend has a heavy Cthulhu theme going on a his boardgame bar but, $180 for the base game with multiple $50 expansions is an easy game to skip out on for me.

    I'm sure it's cool and all but, that's too big of an ask for me.

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    Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    For example:
    Cthulhu: Great at attacking, can pop up anywhere, steals cultists out from under you
    Black Goat: Spreads like crazy, will ALWAYS be the last faction left after every fight even if they weren't involved
    Yellow Sign: Plays a different game, wanders all over, seems completely innocuous, always wins first game with new players
    Nyarlathotep: screws with everything and everybody, can get anywhere
    Opener: will take your gates, can come out of any gate, impossible to avoid, is a lovely purple
    Wendigo: Weak at first, impossible to fight late game, need to be careful not not let him spawn a lot.
    Sleeper: Hides, turtles, is annoying
    Tcho-tcho: Suck right now, everyone has to cooperate to keep them down or else they go nuts with just cultists.

This discussion has been closed.