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LGBT protections and rights
Elki
get busyModerator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
get busyModerator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
Hello, welcome to the thread for discussing protections for the rights of LGBT citizens in the US
This thread has some ground rules and established viewpoints under the settled laws we've previously mentioned. If you have these following questions I'm going to answer them to you now definitively, and as far as this thread is concerned there will be no more to say on the subject.
Don't try to rules lawyer your way around that. I promise, you won't like the results.
This thread has some ground rules and established viewpoints under the settled laws we've previously mentioned. If you have these following questions I'm going to answer them to you now definitively, and as far as this thread is concerned there will be no more to say on the subject.
- Should transgender students have rights and be protected against discrimination? Yes.
- Does that include being treated as a member of the gender they identify as, and all the benefits and rights that confers? Yes.
- What if it was possible to prevent a person from becoming trans by some method? We don't care.
Don't try to rules lawyer your way around that. I promise, you won't like the results.
Elki on
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but sessions and trump overruled
Either way she doesn't really care, she got out of the way when push came to shove
Yet she still signed it, which means her objections are bullshit. Shes not some poor downtrodden worker who has to eat her bosses shit or not feed her family. She could have told them "No, This is wrong" without any real repercussion besides losing the position in our government that she bought outright
I guess what I'm getting at is how easy or hard is this to get around by changing schools. Not that anyone should ever have to just to be treated normally, but just curious if that is any kind of an option.
Yeah I mean it's hard to trust anything coming from these guys.
I'm curious as to where brave defenders of LGBTQ rights, Ivanka and Jared, are now.
They've created such a hysterical fear over some fictional transboogyman that I would say using the bathroom anywhere is potential opening to harassment. There were reports the last time this was a big made up issue that even cis people who didnt present in a "traditional" way, I.E. "Manly man" or "Girly Girl", getting accosted and harassed for using their bathrooms.
One case I know of ended up with an FTM kid getting kicked out of *both* bathrooms. The girls objected to him using the women's (duh), so he switched. Next grade up, someone peeks at his records and kicks him out of the men's bathroom.
Yeah it's 100% how you look. No one gives a fuck if a passing-as-cis trans woman uses the bathroom, regardless of legal anything.
But in general 1) it's unlikely anybody talks to anybody bureaucratically, so stuff like legal documents don't tend to carry weight, which is good in a way because 2) getting various documents changed is a pain in the ass or impossible without irreversible surgery, depending on the state.
California you pretty much just need a doctor to write a note saying "oh yeah this person's taking hormones from me and stuff pls approve gender change" and then go to a judge who signs off and use that to change anything you want. Everything is state by state.
But in general it's never about what people say it's about. I guarantee someone who doesn't pass, but changed their birth certificate and nothing else, even in states with birth certificate laws, will be charged or arrested or whatever.
I don't know what DeVos is doing here. Playing good cop?
Basically hoping the ire falls on Trump and not her.
Ire deserves to fall on the entire god damn administration.
it is entirely possible that devos is just not that anti trans and doesnt see the need for this
them being idiots and in total disarray has been a 100% safe bet until now
Either way, she goes down with the ship as far as I'm concerned.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
She frickin signed it
She still chose to lower her head and agree to save her position.
She knows exactly what she did, and deserves just as much blame as every monster that passed this.
she doesn't see the need, but she is also a fool and a coward, and self interest wins out over whatever vague concerns she has, would be my guess
Don't assume bad intentions over neglect and misunderstanding.
It makes sense once you understand it's a culture war. The liberals want this and it's an example of the horrors of liberal culture so it must be destroyed.
This is not especially surprising to me, but it's also why it's so easy for this sort of discriminatory policy to pass. Even if I go ahead and buy into the premise of the story, which I will because it's plausible, it is not an especially flattering picture. DeVos is uncomfortable and not an active driver of the anti-LGBT policy, but she does not care strongly about it. Her feelings on the issue are so weak that she could be convinced to sign on. She has no strong ideology against this sort of discrimination to back her feeling of discomfort, but likely a class-based aspiration to be seen as something more than a simple bigot. She is probably uncomfortable with being associated with that action like she'd be uncomfortable driving a white Toyota; it's just not in good taste.
"Politician X actually supports Y" is an entirely useless sentiment. It is not enough to support Y, because Y has an active and vociferous opposition. The strength of their feelings and why they hold those beliefs matter a great deal. It's what separates people who will do something from a DeVos.
Its "For the Children", the hatemongers mating call for trying to pass hateful things for hateful reasons, with a side order of ostracizing and demonizing a group of people..usually in an attempt to justify it.
Or on the topic of trans people and bathroom bills, "protecting women and children from predators and rapists!" because passing a law thats basically a panty check will totally stop rapists and molesters.
Rule by EO fiat, die by EO fiat.
Worse than that, it's flat out telling a whole bunch of vulnerable kids that they won't be accepted for just being who they are. It's horrifying.
This is not an accurate portrayal of who DeVos is. She's a religious extremist. The DeVos family was a huge driver of the anti-gay marriage amendment here in Michigan in 2004. It's why I don't buy the story at all. It's an attempt to recover her image in the DC press.
Historical note: they used the exact same argument against the ERA 40 years ago, saying it would mandate unisex bathrooms where women would be raped. That worked brilliantly, so they're trying the same tactic. It's just bigoted nonsense.
but they both seem to have pretty alright LGBTQ policies in place already.
I suppose that districts with strong protections would be unaffected, with Trump using the pretense of deference to states and municipalities to reverse the guidance.
Which is fine, as long as you dont live in a state like Oklahoma, where the state legislature sees local municipalities passing filthy liberal laws like anti-discrimination shit, then step in and pass laws that make it illegal for municipalities to do that state wide
any EO-free approach entails acknowledging that a comfortable legislative plurality does not prioritize trans kids dying quietly somewhere over other political issues though
what would you be willing to sell to a Republican Congress to obtain such sweeping legislative change circa peak Obamapanic - more tax cuts on the rich? healthcare? immigration? etc
Live tweeting from an OK hearing: (there's a thread here, a few choice ones below)
This is the kind of thing trans people- kids especially- have to put up with, since the DoJ and DoE won't help now.
Yep, that right there is why I specifically called out Oklahoma.
Watch the outrage if you put up a sign that says no conservatives, or whites, or whatever. Cause then it affects them and they flip their fucking shit.
True, those living in states with Republican legislatures that want to make legislation about this are screwed until new law is made, through SCOTUS or elsewhere.
...I can't even bring myself to post that with a straight face.
I know there was one in front of the White House, but it only amounted to a few hundred. I think the will is there to protest this, though. The LGBTQ community has been very visibly protesting even before this because, well, they have to.
Surprising nobody, Ken Paxton, AG of Texas, is hailing this move. Because he's an anthropomorphic shitstain. If I hear of any local protests I will drop what I've got going on and attend. Being out can be life-threatening anywhere in America, but it's another ball of wax in rural west Texas. The people who are willing to publicly protest this here are some rock-ribbed badasses.
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trump is a childish king attended by malign courtiers. their tendencies matter.
it is possible, in principle, that this is a pr move. but the trumpets think trans rights are a joke issue that carry no weight with Americans, so why make a show of it here? null hypothesis is that we are squarely at step one; theyre idiots