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LGBT protections: Trump memo seeks trans erasure

ElkiElki get busyModerator, ClubPA mod
edited October 2018 in Debate and/or Discourse
Hello, welcome to the thread for discussing protections for the rights of LGBT citizens in the US

This thread has some ground rules and established viewpoints under the settled laws we've previously mentioned. If you have these following questions I'm going to answer them to you now definitively, and as far as this thread is concerned there will be no more to say on the subject.
  • Should transgender students have rights and be protected against discrimination? Yes.
  • Does that include being treated as a member of the gender they identify as, and all the benefits and rights that confers? Yes.
  • What if it was possible to prevent a person from becoming trans by some method? We don't care.

Don't try to rules lawyer your way around that. I promise, you won't like the results.

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So It Goes on
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Posts

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    edited February 2017
    note that weirdly devos was against this

    but sessions and trump overruled
    nyt wrote:
    The question of how to address the “bathroom debate,” as it has become known, opened a rift inside the Trump administration, pitting the education secretary, Betsy DeVos, against Attorney General Jeff Sessions. Mr. Sessions, who had been expected to move quickly to roll back the civil rights expansions put in place under his Democratic predecessors, wanted to act decisively because of two pending court cases that could have upheld the protections and pushed the government into further litigation.

    But Ms. DeVos initially resisted signing off and told Mr. Trump that she was uncomfortable because of the potential harm that rescinding the protections could cause transgender students, according to three Republicans with direct knowledge of the internal discussions.

    Mr. Sessions, who has opposed expanding gay, lesbian and transgender rights, pushed Ms. DeVos to relent. After getting nowhere, he took his objections to the White House because he could not go forward without her consent. Mr. Trump sided with his attorney general, the Republicans said, and told Ms. DeVos in a meeting in the Oval Office on Tuesday that he wanted her to drop her opposition. And Ms. DeVos, faced with the alternative of resigning or defying the president, agreed to go along.

    Ms. DeVos’s unease was evident in a strongly worded statement she released Wednesday night, in which she said she considered it a “moral obligation” for every school in America to protect all students from discrimination, bullying and harassment.

    surrealitycheck on
    obF2Wuw.png
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    I'm not sure that isn't some PR bullshit

    Either way she doesn't really care, she got out of the way when push came to shove

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  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    note that weirdly devos was against this

    but sessions and trump overruled
    nyt wrote:
    The question of how to address the “bathroom debate,” as it has become known, opened a rift inside the Trump administration, pitting the education secretary, Betsy DeVos, against Attorney General Jeff Sessions. Mr. Sessions, who had been expected to move quickly to roll back the civil rights expansions put in place under his Democratic predecessors, wanted to act decisively because of two pending court cases that could have upheld the protections and pushed the government into further litigation.

    But Ms. DeVos initially resisted signing off and told Mr. Trump that she was uncomfortable because of the potential harm that rescinding the protections could cause transgender students, according to three Republicans with direct knowledge of the internal discussions.

    Mr. Sessions, who has opposed expanding gay, lesbian and transgender rights, pushed Ms. DeVos to relent. After getting nowhere, he took his objections to the White House because he could not go forward without her consent. Mr. Trump sided with his attorney general, the Republicans said, and told Ms. DeVos in a meeting in the Oval Office on Tuesday that he wanted her to drop her opposition. And Ms. DeVos, faced with the alternative of resigning or defying the president, agreed to go along.

    Ms. DeVos’s unease was evident in a strongly worded statement she released Wednesday night, in which she said she considered it a “moral obligation” for every school in America to protect all students from discrimination, bullying and harassment.

    Yet she still signed it, which means her objections are bullshit. Shes not some poor downtrodden worker who has to eat her bosses shit or not feed her family. She could have told them "No, This is wrong" without any real repercussion besides losing the position in our government that she bought outright

    that's it, I'm shutting this entire forum down, everyone thank buttcleft
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  • Jebus314Jebus314 Registered User regular
    edited February 2017
    I haven't looked into this at all, but how does this square with privacy laws if someone makes an official change? Like suppose someone who is FTM applies to a new school after having gone through the process of switching all official government documentation to male. Can the school look through old medical records to determine what their birth gender was?

    I guess what I'm getting at is how easy or hard is this to get around by changing schools. Not that anyone should ever have to just to be treated normally, but just curious if that is any kind of an option.

    Jebus314 on
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  • KetBraKetBra FISTS OF JUSTICE! Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    I'm not sure that isn't some PR bullshit

    Either way she doesn't really care, she got out of the way when push came to shove

    Yeah I mean it's hard to trust anything coming from these guys.

    I'm curious as to where brave defenders of LGBTQ rights, Ivanka and Jared, are now.

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  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    .
    Jebus314 wrote: »
    I haven't looked into this at all, but how does this square with privacy laws if someone makes an official change? Like suppose someone who is FTM applies to a new school after having gone through the process of switching all official government documentation to male. Can the school look through old medical records to determine what their birth gender was?

    I guess what I'm getting at is how easy or hard is this to get around by changing schools. Not that anyone should ever have to just to be treated normally, but just curious if that is any kind of an option.

    They've created such a hysterical fear over some fictional transboogyman that I would say using the bathroom anywhere is potential opening to harassment. There were reports the last time this was a big made up issue that even cis people who didnt present in a "traditional" way, I.E. "Manly man" or "Girly Girl", getting accosted and harassed for using their bathrooms.

    that's it, I'm shutting this entire forum down, everyone thank buttcleft
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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Jebus314 wrote: »
    I haven't looked into this at all, but how does this square with privacy laws if someone makes an official change? Like suppose someone who is FTM applies to a new school after having gone through the process of switching all official government documentation to male. Can the school look through old medical records to determine what their birth gender was?

    I guess what I'm getting at is how easy or hard is this to get around by changing schools. Not that anyone should ever have to just to be treated normally, but just curious if that is any kind of an option.

    One case I know of ended up with an FTM kid getting kicked out of *both* bathrooms. The girls objected to him using the women's (duh), so he switched. Next grade up, someone peeks at his records and kicks him out of the men's bathroom.

    FencingsaxSpoitShadowhope
  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Eastern coastal temptressRegistered User regular
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    .
    Jebus314 wrote: »
    I haven't looked into this at all, but how does this square with privacy laws if someone makes an official change? Like suppose someone who is FTM applies to a new school after having gone through the process of switching all official government documentation to male. Can the school look through old medical records to determine what their birth gender was?

    I guess what I'm getting at is how easy or hard is this to get around by changing schools. Not that anyone should ever have to just to be treated normally, but just curious if that is any kind of an option.

    They've created such a hysterical fear over some fictional transboogyman that I would say using the bathroom anywhere is potential opening to harassment. There were reports the last time this was a big made up issue that even cis people who didnt present in a "traditional" way, I.E. "Manly man" or "Girly Girl", getting accosted and harassed for using their bathrooms.

    Yeah it's 100% how you look. No one gives a fuck if a passing-as-cis trans woman uses the bathroom, regardless of legal anything.

    But in general 1) it's unlikely anybody talks to anybody bureaucratically, so stuff like legal documents don't tend to carry weight, which is good in a way because 2) getting various documents changed is a pain in the ass or impossible without irreversible surgery, depending on the state.

    California you pretty much just need a doctor to write a note saying "oh yeah this person's taking hormones from me and stuff pls approve gender change" and then go to a judge who signs off and use that to change anything you want. Everything is state by state.

    But in general it's never about what people say it's about. I guarantee someone who doesn't pass, but changed their birth certificate and nothing else, even in states with birth certificate laws, will be charged or arrested or whatever.

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  • KetBraKetBra FISTS OF JUSTICE! Registered User regular


    I don't know what DeVos is doing here. Playing good cop?

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  • DocshiftyDocshifty Registered User regular
    KetBra wrote: »


    I don't know what DeVos is doing here. Playing good cop?

    Basically hoping the ire falls on Trump and not her.

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  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality? Registered User regular
    DeVos is probably playing to some other strategy whereby liberal criticisms of trump appointments as being incompetent bad people can be disarmed in the eyes of undecideds and moderates

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  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    Docshifty wrote: »
    KetBra wrote: »


    I don't know what DeVos is doing here. Playing good cop?

    Basically hoping the ire falls on Trump and not her.

    Ire deserves to fall on the entire god damn administration.

    that's it, I'm shutting this entire forum down, everyone thank buttcleft
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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    edited February 2017
    i think assumptions about the administration being macchiavellian have thus far turned out to be empirically false

    it is entirely possible that devos is just not that anti trans and doesnt see the need for this

    them being idiots and in total disarray has been a 100% safe bet until now

    surrealitycheck on
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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Either DeVos is lying, and just doesn't want to look hateful while doing the thing or she just rolled over on the first real test of her tenure.

    Either way, she goes down with the ship as far as I'm concerned.

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  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    i think assumptions about the administration being macchiavellian have thus far turned out to be empirically false

    it is entirely possible that devos is just not that anti trans and doesnt see the need for this

    them being idiots and in total disarray has been a 100% safe bet until now

    She frickin signed it

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  • Emerlmaster999Emerlmaster999 Scarf Prince Registered User regular
    Docshifty wrote: »
    KetBra wrote: »


    I don't know what DeVos is doing here. Playing good cop?

    Basically hoping the ire falls on Trump and not her.

    She still chose to lower her head and agree to save her position.

    She knows exactly what she did, and deserves just as much blame as every monster that passed this.

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  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    i think assumptions about the administration being macchiavellian have thus far turned out to be empirically false

    it is entirely possible that devos is just not that anti trans and doesnt see the need for this

    them being idiots and in total disarray has been a 100% safe bet until now

    She frickin signed it

    she doesn't see the need, but she is also a fool and a coward, and self interest wins out over whatever vague concerns she has, would be my guess

    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
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  • centraldogmacentraldogma Registered User regular
    The Trump administration really has it's priorities in order. No longer will we have to live under the scourge of... kids getting to use the bathroom they want.

    When people unite together, they become stronger than the sum of their parts.
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    The Trump administration really has it's priorities in order. No longer will we have to live under the scourge of... kids getting to use the bathroom they want.

    It makes sense once you understand it's a culture war. The liberals want this and it's an example of the horrors of liberal culture so it must be destroyed.

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  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited February 2017
    note that weirdly devos was against this

    but sessions and trump overruled
    nyt wrote:
    The question of how to address the “bathroom debate,” as it has become known, opened a rift inside the Trump administration, pitting the education secretary, Betsy DeVos, against Attorney General Jeff Sessions. Mr. Sessions, who had been expected to move quickly to roll back the civil rights expansions put in place under his Democratic predecessors, wanted to act decisively because of two pending court cases that could have upheld the protections and pushed the government into further litigation.

    But Ms. DeVos initially resisted signing off and told Mr. Trump that she was uncomfortable because of the potential harm that rescinding the protections could cause transgender students, according to three Republicans with direct knowledge of the internal discussions.

    Mr. Sessions, who has opposed expanding gay, lesbian and transgender rights, pushed Ms. DeVos to relent. After getting nowhere, he took his objections to the White House because he could not go forward without her consent. Mr. Trump sided with his attorney general, the Republicans said, and told Ms. DeVos in a meeting in the Oval Office on Tuesday that he wanted her to drop her opposition. And Ms. DeVos, faced with the alternative of resigning or defying the president, agreed to go along.

    Ms. DeVos’s unease was evident in a strongly worded statement she released Wednesday night, in which she said she considered it a “moral obligation” for every school in America to protect all students from discrimination, bullying and harassment.

    This is not especially surprising to me, but it's also why it's so easy for this sort of discriminatory policy to pass. Even if I go ahead and buy into the premise of the story, which I will because it's plausible, it is not an especially flattering picture. DeVos is uncomfortable and not an active driver of the anti-LGBT policy, but she does not care strongly about it. Her feelings on the issue are so weak that she could be convinced to sign on. She has no strong ideology against this sort of discrimination to back her feeling of discomfort, but likely a class-based aspiration to be seen as something more than a simple bigot. She is probably uncomfortable with being associated with that action like she'd be uncomfortable driving a white Toyota; it's just not in good taste.

    "Politician X actually supports Y" is an entirely useless sentiment. It is not enough to support Y, because Y has an active and vociferous opposition. The strength of their feelings and why they hold those beliefs matter a great deal. It's what separates people who will do something from a DeVos.

    Elki on
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  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    The Trump administration really has it's priorities in order. No longer will we have to live under the scourge of... kids getting to use the bathroom they want.

    It makes sense once you understand it's a culture war. The liberals want this and it's an example of the horrors of liberal culture so it must be destroyed.

    Its "For the Children", the hatemongers mating call for trying to pass hateful things for hateful reasons, with a side order of ostracizing and demonizing a group of people..usually in an attempt to justify it.

    Or on the topic of trans people and bathroom bills, "protecting women and children from predators and rapists!" because passing a law thats basically a panty check will totally stop rapists and molesters.

    that's it, I'm shutting this entire forum down, everyone thank buttcleft
  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    I never really liked the Obama EO on this. They basically went hey, you know how any discussion of this issue involves acknowledging that sex and gender are separate things? Well, they aren't. And by aren't we mean, aren't solely for interpreting 1970s law that explicitly uses "sex" to actually mean gender so we have the power to enact these changes.

    Rule by EO fiat, die by EO fiat.

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  • ZomroZomro Registered User regular
    The Trump administration really has it's priorities in order. No longer will we have to live under the scourge of... kids getting to use the bathroom they want.

    Worse than that, it's flat out telling a whole bunch of vulnerable kids that they won't be accepted for just being who they are. It's horrifying.

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  • WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    edited February 2017
    I never really liked the Obama EO on this. They basically went hey, you know how any discussion of this issue involves acknowledging that sex and gender are separate things? Well, they aren't. And by aren't we mean, aren't solely for interpreting 1970s law that explicitly uses "sex" to actually mean gender so we have the power to enact these changes.

    Rule by EO fiat, die by EO fiat.
    Given the rates of suicide attempts among trans kids have always been super high even BEFORE their government was explicitly setting out to have them eradicated from public life, a whole lot of us are going to be LITERALLY dying by EO fiat over the coming years, so I would appreciate it if you would be less flippant about the subject.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    note that weirdly devos was against this

    but sessions and trump overruled
    nyt wrote:
    The question of how to address the “bathroom debate,” as it has become known, opened a rift inside the Trump administration, pitting the education secretary, Betsy DeVos, against Attorney General Jeff Sessions. Mr. Sessions, who had been expected to move quickly to roll back the civil rights expansions put in place under his Democratic predecessors, wanted to act decisively because of two pending court cases that could have upheld the protections and pushed the government into further litigation.

    But Ms. DeVos initially resisted signing off and told Mr. Trump that she was uncomfortable because of the potential harm that rescinding the protections could cause transgender students, according to three Republicans with direct knowledge of the internal discussions.

    Mr. Sessions, who has opposed expanding gay, lesbian and transgender rights, pushed Ms. DeVos to relent. After getting nowhere, he took his objections to the White House because he could not go forward without her consent. Mr. Trump sided with his attorney general, the Republicans said, and told Ms. DeVos in a meeting in the Oval Office on Tuesday that he wanted her to drop her opposition. And Ms. DeVos, faced with the alternative of resigning or defying the president, agreed to go along.

    Ms. DeVos’s unease was evident in a strongly worded statement she released Wednesday night, in which she said she considered it a “moral obligation” for every school in America to protect all students from discrimination, bullying and harassment.

    This is not especially surprising to me, but it's also why it's so easy for this sort of discriminatory policy to pass. Even if I go ahead and buy into the premise of the story, which I will because it's plausible, it is not an especially flattering picture. DeVos is uncomfortable and not an active driver of the anti-LGBT policy, but she does not care strongly about it. Her feelings on the issue are so weak that she could be convinced to sign on. She has no strong ideology against this sort of discrimination to back her feeling of discomfort, but likely a class-based aspiration to be seen as something more than a simple bigot. She is probably uncomfortable with being associated with that action like she'd be uncomfortable driving a white Toyota; it's just not in good taste.

    "Politician X actually supports Y" is an entirely useless sentiment. It is not enough to support Y, because Y has an active and vociferous opposition. The strength of their feelings and why they hold those beliefs matter a great deal. It's what separates people who will do something from a DeVos.

    This is not an accurate portrayal of who DeVos is. She's a religious extremist. The DeVos family was a huge driver of the anti-gay marriage amendment here in Michigan in 2004. It's why I don't buy the story at all. It's an attempt to recover her image in the DC press.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    The Trump administration really has it's priorities in order. No longer will we have to live under the scourge of... kids getting to use the bathroom they want.

    It makes sense once you understand it's a culture war. The liberals want this and it's an example of the horrors of liberal culture so it must be destroyed.

    Its "For the Children", the hatemongers mating call for trying to pass hateful things for hateful reasons, with a side order of ostracizing and demonizing a group of people..usually in an attempt to justify it.

    Or on the topic of trans people and bathroom bills, "protecting women and children from predators and rapists!" because passing a law thats basically a panty check will totally stop rapists and molesters.

    Historical note: they used the exact same argument against the ERA 40 years ago, saying it would mandate unisex bathrooms where women would be raped. That worked brilliantly, so they're trying the same tactic. It's just bigoted nonsense.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • TL DRTL DR Not at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered User regular
    So I heard about this, and looked up my alma mater and then my high school ready to write some strongly-worded emails

    but they both seem to have pretty alright LGBTQ policies in place already.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Kinda happy my cousin graduates high school in three months. He just came out about a year ago, legally changed his name I think a month or so ago. Which I thought was kinda brave, since this was obviously coming.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    TL DR wrote: »
    So I heard about this, and looked up my alma mater and then my high school ready to write some strongly-worded emails

    but they both seem to have pretty alright LGBTQ policies in place already.

    I suppose that districts with strong protections would be unaffected, with Trump using the pretense of deference to states and municipalities to reverse the guidance.

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  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    TL DR wrote: »
    So I heard about this, and looked up my alma mater and then my high school ready to write some strongly-worded emails

    but they both seem to have pretty alright LGBTQ policies in place already.

    I suppose that districts with strong protections would be unaffected, with Trump using the pretense of deference to states and municipalities to reverse the guidance.

    Which is fine, as long as you dont live in a state like Oklahoma, where the state legislature sees local municipalities passing filthy liberal laws like anti-discrimination shit, then step in and pass laws that make it illegal for municipalities to do that state wide

    that's it, I'm shutting this entire forum down, everyone thank buttcleft
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  • ronyaronya Arrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
    Wyvern wrote: »
    I never really liked the Obama EO on this. They basically went hey, you know how any discussion of this issue involves acknowledging that sex and gender are separate things? Well, they aren't. And by aren't we mean, aren't solely for interpreting 1970s law that explicitly uses "sex" to actually mean gender so we have the power to enact these changes.

    Rule by EO fiat, die by EO fiat.
    Given the rates of suicide attempts among trans kids have always been super high even BEFORE their government was explicitly setting out to have them eradicated from public life, a whole lot of us are going to be LITERALLY dying by EO fiat over the coming years, so I would appreciate it if you would be less flippant about the subject.

    any EO-free approach entails acknowledging that a comfortable legislative plurality does not prioritize trans kids dying quietly somewhere over other political issues though

    what would you be willing to sell to a Republican Congress to obtain such sweeping legislative change circa peak Obamapanic - more tax cuts on the rich? healthcare? immigration? etc

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    edited February 2017
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    Elki wrote: »
    TL DR wrote: »
    So I heard about this, and looked up my alma mater and then my high school ready to write some strongly-worded emails

    but they both seem to have pretty alright LGBTQ policies in place already.

    I suppose that districts with strong protections would be unaffected, with Trump using the pretense of deference to states and municipalities to reverse the guidance.

    Which is fine, as long as you dont live in a state like Oklahoma, where the state legislature sees local municipalities passing filthy liberal laws like anti-discrimination shit, then step in and pass laws that make it illegal for municipalities to do that state wide

    Live tweeting from an OK hearing: (there's a thread here, a few choice ones below)

    Pittman says some businesses have signs that say, e.g., 'No Dogs', can't they just put up similar signs to keep trans people out?
    Brecheen reiterates, in closing, that he doesn't actually hate anyone because he has a "biblical worldview."

    This is the kind of thing trans people- kids especially- have to put up with, since the DoJ and DoE won't help now.

    Phoenix-D on
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  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    Elki wrote: »
    TL DR wrote: »
    So I heard about this, and looked up my alma mater and then my high school ready to write some strongly-worded emails

    but they both seem to have pretty alright LGBTQ policies in place already.

    I suppose that districts with strong protections would be unaffected, with Trump using the pretense of deference to states and municipalities to reverse the guidance.

    Which is fine, as long as you dont live in a state like Oklahoma, where the state legislature sees local municipalities passing filthy liberal laws like anti-discrimination shit, then step in and pass laws that make it illegal for municipalities to do that state wide

    Live tweeting from an OK hearing: (there's a thread here, a few choice ones below)

    Pittman says some businesses have signs that say, e.g., 'No Dogs', can't they just put up similar signs to keep trans people out?
    Brecheen reiterates, in closing, that he doesn't actually hate anyone because he has a "biblical worldview."

    This is the kind of thing trans people- kids especially- have to put up with, since the DoJ and DoE won't help now.

    Yep, that right there is why I specifically called out Oklahoma.

    Watch the outrage if you put up a sign that says no conservatives, or whites, or whatever. Cause then it affects them and they flip their fucking shit.

    that's it, I'm shutting this entire forum down, everyone thank buttcleft
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  • WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    ronya wrote: »
    Wyvern wrote: »
    I never really liked the Obama EO on this. They basically went hey, you know how any discussion of this issue involves acknowledging that sex and gender are separate things? Well, they aren't. And by aren't we mean, aren't solely for interpreting 1970s law that explicitly uses "sex" to actually mean gender so we have the power to enact these changes.

    Rule by EO fiat, die by EO fiat.
    Given the rates of suicide attempts among trans kids have always been super high even BEFORE their government was explicitly setting out to have them eradicated from public life, a whole lot of us are going to be LITERALLY dying by EO fiat over the coming years, so I would appreciate it if you would be less flippant about the subject.

    any EO-free approach entails acknowledging that a comfortable legislative plurality does not prioritize trans kids dying quietly somewhere over other political issues though

    what would you be willing to sell to a Republican Congress to obtain such sweeping legislative change circa peak Obamapanic - more tax cuts on the rich? healthcare? immigration? etc
    Is this directed at me or tinwhiskers? Because I don't really share the objection. I DON'T want to wait for a plurality of legislators to figure out all the intricacies of sex and gender because I know quite intimately what the intervening decades look like for those whose wellbeing is threatened. I'll take what I can get in the meantime; I don't have the luxury of sitting around saying "well the semantics of the executive order weren't quite perfect so meh".

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  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    Elki wrote: »
    TL DR wrote: »
    So I heard about this, and looked up my alma mater and then my high school ready to write some strongly-worded emails

    but they both seem to have pretty alright LGBTQ policies in place already.

    I suppose that districts with strong protections would be unaffected, with Trump using the pretense of deference to states and municipalities to reverse the guidance.

    Which is fine, as long as you dont live in a state like Oklahoma, where the state legislature sees local municipalities passing filthy liberal laws like anti-discrimination shit, then step in and pass laws that make it illegal for municipalities to do that state wide

    True, those living in states with Republican legislatures that want to make legislation about this are screwed until new law is made, through SCOTUS or elsewhere.

    smCQ5WE.jpg
  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Does anyone know of any protests being planned against this?

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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    Even if public schools become a horrible place for transgender students, I'm sure that there are going to be plenty of LGBT-friendly private schools.

    ...I can't even bring myself to post that with a straight face.

    Spoit
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    Does anyone know of any protests being planned against this?

    I know there was one in front of the White House, but it only amounted to a few hundred. I think the will is there to protest this, though. The LGBTQ community has been very visibly protesting even before this because, well, they have to.

    Surprising nobody, Ken Paxton, AG of Texas, is hailing this move. Because he's an anthropomorphic shitstain. If I hear of any local protests I will drop what I've got going on and attend. Being out can be life-threatening anywhere in America, but it's another ball of wax in rural west Texas. The people who are willing to publicly protest this here are some rock-ribbed badasses.

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  • DracilDracil Registered User regular
    edited February 2017
    Wasn't there an article about how I think Steve Bannon/his data company did some analysis and figured out transgender people were basically the weakest link in the liberal coalition, as they were a group that could be attacked and not garner a strong reaction of people coming to their defense and thus they were gonna prioritize them as one of the first targets? I think it was around the time when the anti-LGBT EO was supposed to have been signed and then disappeared.

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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    edited February 2017
    imo people are focusing on wrong aspect of this politically (actual effects on trans people are biggest deal overall, obvsa). if genuine fuuckup, which past experience suggests is the case, it makes devos another weaker ally of trump than suspected. the fact she folded is trivial; no republican has showed the slightest hint of spine and we would not expect them to now. it is that she is making any noises at all that are not yes mister trump, especially given nature of her confirmation

    trump is a childish king attended by malign courtiers. their tendencies matter.

    it is possible, in principle, that this is a pr move. but the trumpets think trans rights are a joke issue that carry no weight with Americans, so why make a show of it here? null hypothesis is that we are squarely at step one; theyre idiots

    surrealitycheck on
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