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LGBT protections and rights

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Posts

  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    Atomika wrote: »
    I would like to encourage everyone, including the media, our politicians, and even those of us here, to respond to arguments that such protections being the purview of the States' control is the natural and best fit for such legislation with expanding this line of questioning to include race, sexuality, gender, age, and religion.

    Not that I think our Republican politicians would have a problem with removing existing federal protections for those, sadly, but we do need to get them on record as saying such.


    Meanwhile, considering the AG (Ken Paxton) for my own state is the one who sued to block the original transgender protections, and has responded to this recent news with this comment:
    Our fight over the bathroom directive has always been about former President Obama's attempt to bypass Congress and rewrite the laws to fit his political agenda for radical social change.

    . . . I find myself unwilling to live in this state any longer than I have to. I will be moving as soon as I am able.

    Ken Paxton is a turd in a suit. I'm so sorry that he is making you leave before we ever got a chance to hang out.

    I'm probably going to be here for a while, possibly another year or more. My kiddo is here and my job, while rife with transphobia at the highest levels, pays me well enough to save up for the insane transition costs.

  • Mr KhanMr Khan Not Everyone WAHHHRegistered User regular
    cursedking wrote: »
    I for real and not as a one liner do not even understand the bathroom thing from even a basic level. I use public restrooms all the time, and the amount of time I spend

    A) thinking about who is in there
    B)looking at the people in there

    is roughly 0%. Who is monitoring this activity? Who is giving a shit on more than a hypothetical social level? You go in, you pee, you wash your hands, you fucking get out because it's a gross bathroom.

    The amount of hand wringing over letting people go where they are most comfortable in a place that I think we can all agree is somewhere we don't want to spend too much time in is mind blowing.

    It mostly empowers trolls and shit-stirrers to hammer cis-people who don't look their gender.

  • DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    So. I recognize I'm probably on the wrong side of history and that hopefully folks here can help change my feelings on this...

    But my struggle with this issue is unlike most rights we discuss I tend to see the argument that there is an attack on certain folks rights to privacy to allow for others.

    Unlike other social issues there is no denying that allowing transgender to use the bathroom of their choice so they feel more comfortable will make a portion of the population less comfortable.

    When I try to see things in the big picture it comes back to the fact we're trading one groups comfort for another. And unlike typically bigoted views there's some rational to the cis gender lack of comfort here. If a girl doesn't feel comfortable sharing a bathroom with a penis it's hard to feel good about just saying "you're wrong to feel that way."

    Ultimately I support the original Obama EO because I recognize that the comfort of the minority is more important to fight for and that it isn't just s comfort thing, it's a battle for rights.

    But it's hard for me to not at least understand fully where the opposition comes from and feel more of an urge to sit on the sidelines in this particular fight.

    Help me not feel that way.

    616610-1.png
  • PsycohedPsycohed On a Fool's ErrandRegistered User regular
    cursedking wrote: »
    I for real and not as a one liner do not even understand the bathroom thing from even a basic level. I use public restrooms all the time, and the amount of time I spend

    A) thinking about who is in there
    B)looking at the people in there

    is roughly 0%. Who is monitoring this activity? Who is giving a shit on more than a hypothetical social level? You go in, you pee, you wash your hands, you fucking get out because it's a gross bathroom.

    The amount of hand wringing over letting people go where they are most comfortable in a place that I think we can all agree is somewhere we don't want to spend too much time in is mind blowing.

    That's because this isn't about who is or isn't using this or that toilet. This is about moving along a particularly unique and powerful attack vector that works specifically on transgender people. It's about denying us participation in public spaces by de facto denying us access to restrooms. And it works, because they aren't forced to go out and spew their unfiltered hate at the world to win their argument, they just have to invoke What About The Little Girls. They're not trying to make logical sense, but rather make irrational appeals to emotion.

    So, I totally get why you'd feel confused by it. They're purposefully obfuscating the goal here.

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  • cursedkingcursedking Registered User regular
    Disrupter wrote: »
    So. I recognize I'm probably on the wrong side of history and that hopefully folks here can help change my feelings on this...

    But my struggle with this issue is unlike most rights we discuss I tend to see the argument that there is an attack on certain folks rights to privacy to allow for others.

    Unlike other social issues there is no denying that allowing transgender to use the bathroom of their choice so they feel more comfortable will make a portion of the population less comfortable.

    When I try to see things in the big picture it comes back to the fact we're trading one groups comfort for another. And unlike typically bigoted views there's some rational to the cis gender lack of comfort here. If a girl doesn't feel comfortable sharing a bathroom with a penis it's hard to feel good about just saying "you're wrong to feel that way."

    Ultimately I support the original Obama EO because I recognize that the comfort of the minority is more important to fight for and that it isn't just s comfort thing, it's a battle for rights.

    But it's hard for me to not at least understand fully where the opposition comes from and feel more of an urge to sit on the sidelines in this particular fight.

    Help me not feel that way.

    (I will start this post by saying that I am a white male so even my earlier post is tinged with privilege about things I do not encounter in my day to day life)

    I think this is mostly an education issue. You're uncomfortable with a person who is transgender? Why? What is the cause of that?

    There is a conversation that can happen there that is more engaged than "I am uncomfortable with this so this is wrong"

    The reason you cannot simply turn that around on the trans person is that there's more to it than comfort. It reflects their identity. It's a systemic denial of who they are.

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  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Disrupter wrote: »
    So. I recognize I'm probably on the wrong side of history and that hopefully folks here can help change my feelings on this...

    But my struggle with this issue is unlike most rights we discuss I tend to see the argument that there is an attack on certain folks rights to privacy to allow for others.

    Unlike other social issues there is no denying that allowing transgender to use the bathroom of their choice so they feel more comfortable will make a portion of the population less comfortable.

    When I try to see things in the big picture it comes back to the fact we're trading one groups comfort for another. And unlike typically bigoted views there's some rational to the cis gender lack of comfort here. If a girl doesn't feel comfortable sharing a bathroom with a penis it's hard to feel good about just saying "you're wrong to feel that way."

    Ultimately I support the original Obama EO because I recognize that the comfort of the minority is more important to fight for and that it isn't just s comfort thing, it's a battle for rights.

    But it's hard for me to not at least understand fully where the opposition comes from and feel more of an urge to sit on the sidelines in this particular fight.

    Help me not feel that way.

    How would she ever know?

    In the ladies' room there are only stalls, and I assume a pre-op trans person would choose to use a stall anyway.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
  • Fleur de AlysFleur de Alys Biohacker Registered User regular
    Disrupter wrote: »
    If a girl doesn't feel comfortable sharing a bathroom with a penis it's hard to feel good about just saying "you're wrong to feel that way."
    I mean you don't have to feel good about saying it, but that doesn't really have much to do with whether or not they're right or wrong.

    Liken this to the desegregation argument. A lot of white people felt really uncomfortable about having to share a bathroom with non-white people. And they were wrong to feel that way!

    This isn't any different. The discomfort comes from bigotry and/or ignorance, and it doesn't deserve being catered to at all.

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  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    .
    cursedking wrote: »
    I for real and not as a one liner do not even understand the bathroom thing from even a basic level. I use public restrooms all the time, and the amount of time I spend

    A) thinking about who is in there
    B)looking at the people in there

    is roughly 0%. Who is monitoring this activity? Who is giving a shit on more than a hypothetical social level? You go in, you pee, you wash your hands, you fucking get out because it's a gross bathroom.

    The amount of hand wringing over letting people go where they are most comfortable in a place that I think we can all agree is somewhere we don't want to spend too much time in is mind blowing.


    They are the old guard, they want America to resemble the 1950s "glory days". Where men went to work in suits, and women were pregnant and at home. Where people of a different complexion were not welcome in whitesville,whiteginia, where the "disturbed" like gays stayed hidden and fearful for their lives.

    They cant stand that other people are being given the same rights as they are, because they feel its taking something away from them, that the minorities, the gays, the trans, by having equal protection and legal standing somehow takes from their rights and legal standing. Their world is somehow diminished by having to share it with other fucking human beings.

    At least until it affects them personally. Once they have a gay or trans child, they are stuck between continuing to be insufferably inhuman cunts and throw their children to the wolves, or they realize "wait, this is really how it is for them?" and start to grow some fucking humanity.

  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Atomika wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    I would like to encourage everyone, including the media, our politicians, and even those of us here, to respond to arguments that such protections being the purview of the States' control is the natural and best fit for such legislation with expanding this line of questioning to include race, sexuality, gender, age, and religion.

    Not that I think our Republican politicians would have a problem with removing existing federal protections for those, sadly, but we do need to get them on record as saying such.


    Meanwhile, considering the AG (Ken Paxton) for my own state is the one who sued to block the original transgender protections, and has responded to this recent news with this comment:
    Our fight over the bathroom directive has always been about former President Obama's attempt to bypass Congress and rewrite the laws to fit his political agenda for radical social change.

    . . . I find myself unwilling to live in this state any longer than I have to. I will be moving as soon as I am able.

    Ken Paxton is a turd in a suit. I'm so sorry that he is making you leave before we ever got a chance to hang out.

    I'm probably going to be here for a while, possibly another year or more. My kiddo is here and my job, while rife with transphobia at the highest levels, pays me well enough to save up for the insane transition costs.

    Dallas, right? I'm in that neighborhood fairly often. I'll shoot you a PM next time I'm in the area.

    Seriously, though, Texas needs to get past its regressive, throw-another-tire-on-the-fire, draconian enforcement of its imaginary Leave It To Beaver, whitebread America.

    But I don't think this is an accident; trans people as a class overwhelmingly vote Democratic, so the more persecuted they get, the more likely they are to leave to go somewhere they don't have to fear for their safety. A lot of conservative ideology is geared towards homogenization, and rescinding trans protections is just one more step towards that under the guise of "keeping our women safe from predators". These transphobic dickbags don't know any trans people personally and if they had even the barest minimum of awareness at what they go through every day they might realize that they are taking away protections from the people who need it most to give a paper shield to people for an issue that doesn't exist.

  • VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    edited February 2017
    Disrupter wrote: »
    So. I recognize I'm probably on the wrong side of history and that hopefully folks here can help change my feelings on this...

    But my struggle with this issue is unlike most rights we discuss I tend to see the argument that there is an attack on certain folks rights to privacy to allow for others.

    Unlike other social issues there is no denying that allowing transgender to use the bathroom of their choice so they feel more comfortable will make a portion of the population less comfortable.

    When I try to see things in the big picture it comes back to the fact we're trading one groups comfort for another. And unlike typically bigoted views there's some rational to the cis gender lack of comfort here. If a girl doesn't feel comfortable sharing a bathroom with a penis it's hard to feel good about just saying "you're wrong to feel that way."

    Ultimately I support the original Obama EO because I recognize that the comfort of the minority is more important to fight for and that it isn't just s comfort thing, it's a battle for rights.

    But it's hard for me to not at least understand fully where the opposition comes from and feel more of an urge to sit on the sidelines in this particular fight.

    Help me not feel that way.

    It's not about who pees where. It's about denying someone's identity, ie. "You can't use the mens restroom, because I say you're a woman, regardless of how you experience the world."

    Allowing people to self-identitify trumps any discomfort issues.

    VishNub on
  • SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    Disrupter wrote: »
    So. I recognize I'm probably on the wrong side of history and that hopefully folks here can help change my feelings on this...

    But my struggle with this issue is unlike most rights we discuss I tend to see the argument that there is an attack on certain folks rights to privacy to allow for others.

    Unlike other social issues there is no denying that allowing transgender to use the bathroom of their choice so they feel more comfortable will make a portion of the population less comfortable.

    When I try to see things in the big picture it comes back to the fact we're trading one groups comfort for another. And unlike typically bigoted views there's some rational to the cis gender lack of comfort here. If a girl doesn't feel comfortable sharing a bathroom with a penis it's hard to feel good about just saying "you're wrong to feel that way."

    Ultimately I support the original Obama EO because I recognize that the comfort of the minority is more important to fight for and that it isn't just s comfort thing, it's a battle for rights.

    But it's hard for me to not at least understand fully where the opposition comes from and feel more of an urge to sit on the sidelines in this particular fight.

    Help me not feel that way.
    Well, firstly, discomfort and discrimination are not the same thing. Some men and women are allowed to use the bathrooms matching their gender. Others are not.

    With regards to how people feel about it, I think one key element to this is that people have already been sharing bathrooms with [x] and have not noticed. The concerns are way overblown.

    Another thing is that people were (or are, just maybe less openly/commonly) just as uncomfortable sharing stuff with people whose skin color/religion/sexuality is different.

    Discomfort can go away if you ignore it, discrimination will not.

  • ZampanovZampanov You May Not Go Home Until Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered User regular
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    Disrupter wrote: »
    So. I recognize I'm probably on the wrong side of history and that hopefully folks here can help change my feelings on this...

    But my struggle with this issue is unlike most rights we discuss I tend to see the argument that there is an attack on certain folks rights to privacy to allow for others.

    Unlike other social issues there is no denying that allowing transgender to use the bathroom of their choice so they feel more comfortable will make a portion of the population less comfortable.

    When I try to see things in the big picture it comes back to the fact we're trading one groups comfort for another. And unlike typically bigoted views there's some rational to the cis gender lack of comfort here. If a girl doesn't feel comfortable sharing a bathroom with a penis it's hard to feel good about just saying "you're wrong to feel that way."

    Ultimately I support the original Obama EO because I recognize that the comfort of the minority is more important to fight for and that it isn't just s comfort thing, it's a battle for rights.

    But it's hard for me to not at least understand fully where the opposition comes from and feel more of an urge to sit on the sidelines in this particular fight.

    Help me not feel that way.
    Well, firstly, discomfort and discrimination are not the same thing. Some men and women are allowed to use the bathrooms matching their gender. Others are not.

    With regards to how people feel about it, I think one key element to this is that people have already been sharing bathrooms with [x] and have not noticed. The concerns are way overblown.

    Another thing is that people were (or are, just maybe less openly/commonly) just as uncomfortable sharing stuff with people whose skin color/religion/sexuality is different.

    Discomfort can go away if you ignore it, discrimination will not.

    yeah these are a lot of the arguments we saw with segregation too

    and I'm sure otherwise good people who hadn't really thought about the situation very much saw the two arguments as equal

    they're not even a little bit equal

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  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    VishNub wrote: »
    Disrupter wrote: »
    So. I recognize I'm probably on the wrong side of history and that hopefully folks here can help change my feelings on this...

    But my struggle with this issue is unlike most rights we discuss I tend to see the argument that there is an attack on certain folks rights to privacy to allow for others.

    Unlike other social issues there is no denying that allowing transgender to use the bathroom of their choice so they feel more comfortable will make a portion of the population less comfortable.

    When I try to see things in the big picture it comes back to the fact we're trading one groups comfort for another. And unlike typically bigoted views there's some rational to the cis gender lack of comfort here. If a girl doesn't feel comfortable sharing a bathroom with a penis it's hard to feel good about just saying "you're wrong to feel that way."

    Ultimately I support the original Obama EO because I recognize that the comfort of the minority is more important to fight for and that it isn't just s comfort thing, it's a battle for rights.

    But it's hard for me to not at least understand fully where the opposition comes from and feel more of an urge to sit on the sidelines in this particular fight.

    Help me not feel that way.

    It's not about who pees where. It's about denying someone's identity, ie. "You can't use the mens restroom, because I say you're a woman, regardless of how you experience the world."

    Allowing people to self-identitify trumps any discomfort issues.

    its an probing attack in a war to other things they dont like, and by othering it they've removed the human face and the human suffering from it, successfully laying the groundwork for future attacks that more conservatives will support


  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    I mean, I'd deny that allowing transgender people to use the bathroom of their choice makes other people feel less comfortable. I don't care who's in the bathroom, and if someone feels better for using the same bathroom as me, sounds great.

    But I've always kinda thought splitting up bathrooms is a very Victorian sensibility to begin with. Stalls are stalls, who cares.

    aeNqQM9.jpg
  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    I mean, I'd deny that allowing transgender people to use the bathroom of their choice makes other people feel less comfortable. I don't care who's in the bathroom, and if someone feels better for using the same bathroom as me, sounds great.

    But I've always kinda thought splitting up bathrooms is a very Victorian sensibility to begin with. Stalls are stalls, who cares.

    Had to separate the sexes lest they might sin

  • davidsdurionsdavidsdurions Your Trusty Meatshield Panhandle NebraskaRegistered User regular
    Your reminder that even this issue can be addressed locally and if the pressure is applied from enough directions we can enact the change necessary for a better world.
    LINCOLN, Neb. (AP) — Nebraska lawmakers are again considering a bill that aims to protect gay and transgender employees from workplace discrimination.

    Supporters of the measure packed a legislative committee hearing Wednesday. Bill sponsor Sen. Adam Morfeld of Lincoln says the bill is a "common-sense" protection that lawmakers should have passed years ago.

    Morfeld says employees should be judged by the quality of their work, rather than their sexual orientation.

    Several gay, lesbian and transgender residents told senators they were afraid to be themselves at work because they feared they could be fired just for having pictures of their same-sex significant others on their desks.

    Social conservative groups have argued the bill would create special rights for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transsexual people, who aren't considered a protected class under current state law.

    I immediately sent this note to the state lawmaker responsible for this important state level legislation:
    I support your effort to protect workers' rights from discrimination. Thank you for the work you are doing even if some of it is an uphill battle in our state.

    I was made aware of your efforts through our local radio station that has only recently started reporting proper news in a significant way.

    http://www.ksidradio.com/news/details.cfm?clientid=37&id=237587#.WK8aQzdHaaN

    I feel that we need media and policy makers that deal in facts and with a sense of social responsibility, more now than ever.

    Thank you from (more precise name and location redacted)

    RESIST

  • DracilDracil Registered User regular
    Disrupter wrote: »
    So. I recognize I'm probably on the wrong side of history and that hopefully folks here can help change my feelings on this...

    But my struggle with this issue is unlike most rights we discuss I tend to see the argument that there is an attack on certain folks rights to privacy to allow for others.

    Unlike other social issues there is no denying that allowing transgender to use the bathroom of their choice so they feel more comfortable will make a portion of the population less comfortable.

    When I try to see things in the big picture it comes back to the fact we're trading one groups comfort for another. And unlike typically bigoted views there's some rational to the cis gender lack of comfort here. If a girl doesn't feel comfortable sharing a bathroom with a penis it's hard to feel good about just saying "you're wrong to feel that way."

    Ultimately I support the original Obama EO because I recognize that the comfort of the minority is more important to fight for and that it isn't just s comfort thing, it's a battle for rights.

    But it's hard for me to not at least understand fully where the opposition comes from and feel more of an urge to sit on the sidelines in this particular fight.

    Help me not feel that way.

    Because all discrimination has always been based on "discomfort", which if you think about the other cases, is also bullshit.

    "I'm uncomfortable sharing the same drinking fountain/school as black people"

    "I'm uncomfortable seeing two men kiss in public"

    etc.

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited February 2017
    Knight_ wrote: »
    I mean, I'd deny that allowing transgender people to use the bathroom of their choice makes other people feel less comfortable. I don't care who's in the bathroom, and if someone feels better for using the same bathroom as me, sounds great.

    But I've always kinda thought splitting up bathrooms is a very Victorian sensibility to begin with. Stalls are stalls, who cares.
    It makes a lot of people uncomfortable because of common bigoted fears.

    It is like how Eisenhower told Chief Justice Earl Warren, "These [southern whites] are not bad people. All they are concerned about is to see that their sweet little girls are not required to sit in school alongside some big overgrown Negroes." Just with fear of predatory trans girls instead of fear of predatory black boys.

    Couscous on
  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    Your reminder that even this issue can be addressed locally and if the pressure is applied from enough directions we can enact the change necessary for a better world.
    LINCOLN, Neb. (AP) — Nebraska lawmakers are again considering a bill that aims to protect gay and transgender employees from workplace discrimination.

    Supporters of the measure packed a legislative committee hearing Wednesday. Bill sponsor Sen. Adam Morfeld of Lincoln says the bill is a "common-sense" protection that lawmakers should have passed years ago.

    Morfeld says employees should be judged by the quality of their work, rather than their sexual orientation.

    Several gay, lesbian and transgender residents told senators they were afraid to be themselves at work because they feared they could be fired just for having pictures of their same-sex significant others on their desks.

    Social conservative groups have argued the bill would create special rights for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transsexual people, who aren't considered a protected class under current state law.

    I immediately sent this note to the state lawmaker responsible for this important state level legislation:
    I support your effort to protect workers' rights from discrimination. Thank you for the work you are doing even if some of it is an uphill battle in our state.

    I was made aware of your efforts through our local radio station that has only recently started reporting proper news in a significant way.

    http://www.ksidradio.com/news/details.cfm?clientid=37&id=237587#.WK8aQzdHaaN

    I feel that we need media and policy makers that deal in facts and with a sense of social responsibility, more now than ever.

    Thank you from (more precise name and location redacted)

    RESIST

    it creates special rights for LGBT people. The special right not to be ostracized, abused and denied work and home for who they are. You know, the same kind of protections conservatives generally have by default.



  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    When I have a day at work, sometimes I have more things to do than I have time for. I have to look at my list of things and say "that isn't getting done today". If something is on the list for too long, it becomes "I don't have time for that ever". I'm supposed to reform the Indie Games forum sign up process! It's been on that list for maybe a year! I don't have the time.

    Am I busier than the POTUS? Does he just not have any pressing issues to attend to? Because what I can't understand is where he found the time to address this total fucking non-issue that no one really goddamn even cared about.

  • cursedkingcursedking Registered User regular
    edited February 2017
    Knight_ wrote: »
    I mean, I'd deny that allowing transgender people to use the bathroom of their choice makes other people feel less comfortable. I don't care who's in the bathroom, and if someone feels better for using the same bathroom as me, sounds great.

    But I've always kinda thought splitting up bathrooms is a very Victorian sensibility to begin with. Stalls are stalls, who cares.

    I also feel this way but as I said earlier, I'm not a woman and wouldn't deign to speak for them. It's not hard for me to envision a scenario where someone feels very real anxiety about being somewhere they consider themselves vulnerable and then being in that same room with someone who has a penis.

    I am not giving a defense to that scenario as far as what the law should be, but I don't think it's difficult to see how that feeling could emerge. Which is why I think education and communication are the real tools for that, not continued segregation.

    cursedking on
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  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    When I have a day at work, sometimes I have more things to do than I have time for. I have to look at my list of things and say "that isn't getting done today". If something is on the list for too long, it becomes "I don't have time for that ever". I'm supposed to reform the Indie Games forum sign up process! It's been on that list for maybe a year! I don't have the time.

    Am I busier than the POTUS? Does he just not have any pressing issues to attend to? Because what I can't understand is where he found the time to address this total fucking non-issue that no one really goddamn even cared about.

    Given the reports he's just wandering around the white house alone and watching multiple hours of cable news a day, you are almost certainly busier than POTUS.

    aeNqQM9.jpg
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited February 2017
    Tube wrote: »
    When I have a day at work, sometimes I have more things to do than I have time for. I have to look at my list of things and say "that isn't getting done today". If something is on the list for too long, it becomes "I don't have time for that ever". I'm supposed to reform the Indie Games forum sign up process! It's been on that list for maybe a year! I don't have the time.

    Am I busier than the POTUS? Does he just not have any pressing issues to attend to? Because what I can't understand is where he found the time to address this total fucking non-issue that no one really goddamn even cared about.

    Historically no, but this is also a president who believes that the primary job is delegation; so maybe?

    EDIT: Also you seem not to have a regular 9-5 M-F workweek, which Trump so far basically does

    Javen on
  • WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    edited February 2017
    Disrupter wrote: »
    So. I recognize I'm probably on the wrong side of history and that hopefully folks here can help change my feelings on this...

    But my struggle with this issue is unlike most rights we discuss I tend to see the argument that there is an attack on certain folks rights to privacy to allow for others.

    Unlike other social issues there is no denying that allowing transgender to use the bathroom of their choice so they feel more comfortable will make a portion of the population less comfortable.

    When I try to see things in the big picture it comes back to the fact we're trading one groups comfort for another. And unlike typically bigoted views there's some rational to the cis gender lack of comfort here. If a girl doesn't feel comfortable sharing a bathroom with a penis it's hard to feel good about just saying "you're wrong to feel that way."

    Ultimately I support the original Obama EO because I recognize that the comfort of the minority is more important to fight for and that it isn't just s comfort thing, it's a battle for rights.

    But it's hard for me to not at least understand fully where the opposition comes from and feel more of an urge to sit on the sidelines in this particular fight.

    Help me not feel that way.
    Interracial marriage makes certain people "uncomfortable". Women in the workforce makes certain people "uncomfortable". Walking past a mosque makes some people "uncomfortable". We, as a nation, do not and should not say, "Well, the fact of your existence makes somebody uncomfortable, so the only fair thing to do is strip you of your right and ability to lead a functional public life (and if being treated as subhuman makes YOU uncomfortable then go jump off a bridge I guess)."

    People are afraid of trans women in the bathroom because they imagine that their safety is imperiled, because they assume that all trans women are mentally unstable perverts. This is, factually, not true. Factually, the only people whose safety is ACTUALLY imperiled over the so-called bathroom issue is trans people. Trans people who are so, so often singled out and abused until they die in a hate crime or are pushed into attempting suicide, while bathroom rapes perpetrated by trans people are totally nonexistant. So no shit that should be the basis of policy.

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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    When I have a day at work, sometimes I have more things to do than I have time for. I have to look at my list of things and say "that isn't getting done today". If something is on the list for too long, it becomes "I don't have time for that ever". I'm supposed to reform the Indie Games forum sign up process! It's been on that list for maybe a year! I don't have the time.

    Am I busier than the POTUS? Does he just not have any pressing issues to attend to? Because what I can't understand is where he found the time to address this total fucking non-issue that no one really goddamn even cared about.

    It's not even that nobody cared about this. This move is wildly unpopular with a majority of the public. But it's not enough to say that he's just doing this to appease the minority of voters that won him the EC. Everything he does has to be accompanied with, "This is what everybody wants and any dissent is from a tiny minority". He's going out of his way, taking time out of what ought to be an incredibly busy schedule to do seriously unpopular things, and then defending them by saying that they aren't actually unpopular. While fucking trans people over severely in the process.

    It's just wall to wall nonsensical bullshit.

  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    When I have a day at work, sometimes I have more things to do than I have time for. I have to look at my list of things and say "that isn't getting done today". If something is on the list for too long, it becomes "I don't have time for that ever". I'm supposed to reform the Indie Games forum sign up process! It's been on that list for maybe a year! I don't have the time.

    Am I busier than the POTUS? Does he just not have any pressing issues to attend to? Because what I can't understand is where he found the time to address this total fucking non-issue that no one really goddamn even cared about.

    You are also not a bigot surrounded by White Supremacists, Nazi's, and homophobes. All of which will gladly waste all their time ruminating on ways to fuck over the "not-us"es

    The only surprise from this administration is it took them this long to get around to it.

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    Making life actively worse for people that aren't them is the entire goal of Bannon and co

  • Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered User regular
    Wyvern wrote: »
    People are afraid of trans women in the bathroom because they imagine that their safety is imperiled, because they assume that all trans women are mentally unstable perverts. This is, factually, not true. Factually, the only people whose safety is ACTUALLY imperiled over the so-called bathroom is trans people. Trans people who are so, so often singled out and abused until they die in a hate crime or are pushed into attempting suicide, while bathroom rapes perpotrated by trans people are totally nonexistant. So no shit that should be the basis of policy.
    Actually, @Wyvern you should be afraid of me, because I'm a monster that eats unicorns pineapple on pizza, like a super-villainess. ;) :hydra:

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  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    cursedking wrote: »
    I for real and not as a one liner do not even understand the bathroom thing from even a basic level. I use public restrooms all the time, and the amount of time I spend

    A) thinking about who is in there
    B)looking at the people in there

    is roughly 0%. Who is monitoring this activity? Who is giving a shit on more than a hypothetical social level? You go in, you pee, you wash your hands, you fucking get out because it's a gross bathroom.

    The amount of hand wringing over letting people go where they are most comfortable in a place that I think we can all agree is somewhere we don't want to spend too much time in is mind blowing.

    Bathrooms are gross but they're also where people feel vulnerable, even people who normally aren't vulnerable. You don't look at or think about other people in there because you don't want others to do that to you. That is a big fear for people who don't usually think about their bodies.

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • PsycohedPsycohed On a Fool's ErrandRegistered User regular
    Disrupter wrote: »
    So. I recognize I'm probably on the wrong side of history and that hopefully folks here can help change my feelings on this...

    But my struggle with this issue is unlike most rights we discuss I tend to see the argument that there is an attack on certain folks rights to privacy to allow for others.

    Unlike other social issues there is no denying that allowing transgender to use the bathroom of their choice so they feel more comfortable will make a portion of the population less comfortable.

    When I try to see things in the big picture it comes back to the fact we're trading one groups comfort for another. And unlike typically bigoted views there's some rational to the cis gender lack of comfort here. If a girl doesn't feel comfortable sharing a bathroom with a penis it's hard to feel good about just saying "you're wrong to feel that way."

    Ultimately I support the original Obama EO because I recognize that the comfort of the minority is more important to fight for and that it isn't just s comfort thing, it's a battle for rights.

    But it's hard for me to not at least understand fully where the opposition comes from and feel more of an urge to sit on the sidelines in this particular fight.

    Help me not feel that way.

    Look, I'm sympathetic to people who feel my presence in a bathroom makes them feel under threat. Because I feel that way every single time I go pee.

    The only functional difference between me and them is that they're going to walk out of that bathroom every time. There's a chance I might not.

    So yeah, I'd love to be all peaceable and educating and try to help my fellow humans understand my own humanity. But this whole ordeal is just one more thing making it dangerous for our young people to be who they are. I hate to sound over-dramatic, but there is a cost in blood to young people that I am unwilling to let slide.

    Their anxiety is valid, absolutely. So's ours.

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  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    I'm interested/terrified to see how this unfolds in my area. Dallas, Austin, and San Antonio are actually pretty liberal and already have trans protections, but the rest of Texas is an angry hemorrhoid of old white evangelicals, including the suburbs I reside in.

  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Western coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Psycohed wrote: »
    Disrupter wrote: »
    So. I recognize I'm probably on the wrong side of history and that hopefully folks here can help change my feelings on this...

    But my struggle with this issue is unlike most rights we discuss I tend to see the argument that there is an attack on certain folks rights to privacy to allow for others.

    Unlike other social issues there is no denying that allowing transgender to use the bathroom of their choice so they feel more comfortable will make a portion of the population less comfortable.

    When I try to see things in the big picture it comes back to the fact we're trading one groups comfort for another. And unlike typically bigoted views there's some rational to the cis gender lack of comfort here. If a girl doesn't feel comfortable sharing a bathroom with a penis it's hard to feel good about just saying "you're wrong to feel that way."

    Ultimately I support the original Obama EO because I recognize that the comfort of the minority is more important to fight for and that it isn't just s comfort thing, it's a battle for rights.

    But it's hard for me to not at least understand fully where the opposition comes from and feel more of an urge to sit on the sidelines in this particular fight.

    Help me not feel that way.

    Look, I'm sympathetic to people who feel my presence in a bathroom makes them feel under threat. Because I feel that way every single time I go pee.

    The only functional difference between me and them is that they're going to walk out of that bathroom every time. There's a chance I might not.

    So yeah, I'd love to be all peaceable and educating and try to help my fellow humans understand my own humanity. But this whole ordeal is just one more thing making it dangerous for our young people to be who they are. I hate to sound over-dramatic, but there is a cost in blood to young people that I am unwilling to let slide.

    Their anxiety is valid, absolutely. So's ours.

    Yeah, I'm pretty sure the public discussion and bathroom laws have caused more assaults in bathrooms over a few years than probably happens in decades.

  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Yeah just because you're in a city doesn't mean you're safe. And this decision is undoubtedly going to embolden some asshole into thinking violence against a trans person using the bathroom that corresponds to their identity is wholly justified. That was always a danger, but with Trump in the Oval it's just going to get worse.

  • JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
    This is from back in June. Times sure have changed.

  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    JoeUser wrote: »
    This is from back in June. Times sure have changed.


    Nobody was fooled by this.

  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    This will absolutely be spun as not being about LGBT people, and the majority of the LGB community are perfectly happy to throw the T part under the bus at the slightest provocation.

  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Western coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Tube wrote: »
    This will absolutely be spun as not being about LGBT people, and the majority of the LGB community are perfectly happy to throw the T part under the bus at the slightest provocation.

    The first part is absolutely true.

    The second part is... usually true, and I'm sure to a degree it'll happen, but I think that solidarity has been growing as transsexual issues have become more mainstream, and even the bigoted parts of the LGB are aware of the fact that basically anyone who threatens the T is someone who will threaten the rest at some point.

    So I'm at least mildly hopeful that the people doing the bus-throwing will be less than a majority.

  • Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered User regular
    Psycohed wrote: »
    Their anxiety is valid, absolutely. So's ours.
    ^This. I am having a bad day. :(

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  • HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    Does anyone know of any protests being planned against this?

    http://gothamist.com/2017/02/23/stonewall_rally_tgnc_trump.php

    Rally at the Stonewall Inn, for the NYC crowd

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Yeah just because you're in a city doesn't mean you're safe. And this decision is undoubtedly going to embolden some asshole into thinking violence against a trans person using the bathroom that corresponds to their identity is wholly justified. That was always a danger, but with Trump in the Oval it's just going to get worse.

    I thought I was going to have to kick a dude down the hill a few months back. Started yelling slurs at me as I was walking into work. (Poorly, I might add; when you're trying to demean me as a fake women using gendered female slurs doesn't work well..)

    And I work in Seattle. So yeah the assholes are everywhere, just the proportion varies.

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