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The [Freedom of the Press] Will Not Be Abridged

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    davidsdurionsdavidsdurions Your Trusty Meatshield Panhandle NebraskaRegistered User regular
    Opty wrote: »
    Bill Trinen is the top-dog Japanese interpreter for Nintendo of America, as in he's the guy who handles interpreting Miyamoto. He doesn't have any real "power" which is why he's allowed to make those types of Tweets in the first place.

    Edit: To make this post a little more thread-relevant, has anyone revealed what was talked about in the gaggle that started this whole thing?

    It was an on the record but off camera briefing. Transcript straight from the administration, as far as I can tell it is complete: https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/02/24/press-gaggle-press-secretary-sean-spicer-2242017

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    ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    That is a pretty great ad.
    I didn't realize it was available for viewing already. Man. That ad is not in the spirit of "please give us business." It's very much a political attack ad and I don't think Trump ever saw it before commenting on its existence.

    Heh, meanwhile it got a few of my friends to subscribe right after viewing it, so it seems to be one more thing working for them despite the usual suspects' claims...

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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    W continues to score points, polish his legacy by being less awful than what we have now:

    Politico: Bush breaks with Trump, calls media "indispensable to democracy"
    “I consider the media to be indispensable to democracy. That we need the media to hold people like me to account,” Bush told Matt Lauer, anchor of NBC’s “Today” show. “I mean, power can be very addictive and it can be corrosive, and it's important for the media to call to account people who abuse their power, whether it be here or elsewhere.”
    “One of the things I spent a lot time doing was trying to convince a person like Vladimir Putin, for example, to accept the notion of an independent press,” Bush said. “And it's kind of hard to, you know, tell others to have an independent, free press when we're not willing to have one ourselves.”

    On the other hand:
    Despite his unwillingness to support Trump at the ballot box, Bush said Trump should be given a chance to act on his stated desire to bring the country together. The former president said his Republican successor faces a tougher media environment than he ever did.

    “I think you have to take the man for his word that he wants to unify the country, and we’ll see whether he’s able to do so,” Bush said. “It's hard to unify the country with the news media being so split up. When I was president, you know, you mattered a lot more because there was like three of you and now there's all kinds of information being bombarded out and people can say things anonymously. It's just a different world.”

    So while I'm tempted to like him, I'm not there yet.

    In another story on that same page, apparently there's been a surge of interest and usage of encrypted chat apps, both inside the WH and other agencies. Wonder why.

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Because they want to 'do the cyber better' or some shit. Also Trump still uses his personal phone, old and unsecure. Also I don't think they understand how leaks can happen.

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    cursedkingcursedking Registered User regular
    I think the thing about Spicer randomly taking phones is hilarious

    what idiot would be leaking government information on their dang iphone.

    Everyone watched the Wire, Sean, they know about burner phones they cost 30 bucks.

    Types: Boom + Robo | Food: Sweet | Habitat: Plains
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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Bush scores exactly the same amount of points for coming to the defense of the press with no actual action taken as McCain does when he makes noises of dissent but does nothing about it.

    Zero.

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    TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    cursedking wrote: »
    I think the thing about Spicer randomly taking phones is hilarious

    what idiot would be leaking government information on their dang iphone.

    Everyone watched the Wire, Sean, they know about burner phones they cost 30 bucks.

    I'd bet almost every White House reporter carries a half dozen burner phones with pre-programmed numbers on them all the time and hand them out to staffers like candy. At least, I would.

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    CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    Bush scores exactly the same amount of points for coming to the defense of the press with no actual action taken as McCain does when he makes noises of dissent but does nothing about it.

    Zero.
    What action can he take? He doesn't hold any office.

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    ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Because they want to 'do the cyber better' or some shit. Also Trump still uses his personal phone, old and unsecure. Also I don't think they understand how leaks can happen.

    It's also illegal as fuck and circumvents laws about record keeping.

    ztrEPtD.gif
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »
    Bush scores exactly the same amount of points for coming to the defense of the press with no actual action taken as McCain does when he makes noises of dissent but does nothing about it.

    Zero.
    What action can he take? He doesn't hold any office.
    Past presidents can use their clout to help garner support for things and help movements gain momentum. At minimum.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Coinage wrote: »
    Bush scores exactly the same amount of points for coming to the defense of the press with no actual action taken as McCain does when he makes noises of dissent but does nothing about it.

    Zero.
    What action can he take? He doesn't hold any office.
    Past presidents can use their clout to help garner support for things and help movements gain momentum. At minimum.

    ...That would be talking to people. Which he just did.

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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Yea, like if only we had a very public scandal about failing to keep your government communications properly archived per protocol where even the complete lack of evidence of doing so was the basis for months of investigation and dozens of news stories.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Coinage wrote: »
    Bush scores exactly the same amount of points for coming to the defense of the press with no actual action taken as McCain does when he makes noises of dissent but does nothing about it.

    Zero.
    What action can he take? He doesn't hold any office.
    Past presidents can use their clout to help garner support for things and help movements gain momentum. At minimum.

    ...That would be talking to people. Which he just did.

    Wake me up when he gets off his ass and starts going to protests. Or anything other than, "I disagree with him but give him a chance".

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Coinage wrote: »
    Bush scores exactly the same amount of points for coming to the defense of the press with no actual action taken as McCain does when he makes noises of dissent but does nothing about it.

    Zero.
    What action can he take? He doesn't hold any office.
    Past presidents can use their clout to help garner support for things and help movements gain momentum. At minimum.

    ...That would be talking to people. Which he just did.
    You're reacting as if I was disagreeing with what I just said and what you just said.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Coinage wrote: »
    Bush scores exactly the same amount of points for coming to the defense of the press with no actual action taken as McCain does when he makes noises of dissent but does nothing about it.

    Zero.
    What action can he take? He doesn't hold any office.
    Past presidents can use their clout to help garner support for things and help movements gain momentum. At minimum.

    ...That would be talking to people. Which he just did.
    You're reacting as if I was disagreeing with what I just said and what you just said.

    I misread the emphasis. apologies.

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    CelloCello Registered User regular
    I believe the NYT ad is also on the DC metro ad screens. My train went by too quickly to get a photo; if I see them again this week I'll catch some for you guys.

    Steam
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    Edith UpwardsEdith Upwards Registered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »
    Bush scores exactly the same amount of points for coming to the defense of the press with no actual action taken as McCain does when he makes noises of dissent but does nothing about it.

    Zero.
    What action can he take? He doesn't hold any office.

    :stansmith: : The action that will save America.

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    Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    These days I alternate between wishing hunter s Thompson was around to do what he does and being glad he never lived to this.

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    Psychotic OnePsychotic One The Lord of No Pants Parts UnknownRegistered User regular
    Bloods End wrote: »
    These days I alternate between wishing hunter s Thompson was around to do what he does and being glad he never lived to this.

    I can't even begin to imagine what his response to all this would have been. I imagine it somewhere between cartoonish rage and swearing to trying to start a rebellion.

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    So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »
    Bush scores exactly the same amount of points for coming to the defense of the press with no actual action taken as McCain does when he makes noises of dissent but does nothing about it.

    Zero.
    What action can he take? He doesn't hold any office.

    :stansmith: : The action that will save America.

    This thread is not an open mic.

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Bloods End wrote: »
    These days I alternate between wishing hunter s Thompson was around to do what he does and being glad he never lived to this.

    I can't even begin to imagine what his response to all this would have been. I imagine it somewhere between cartoonish rage and swearing to trying to start a rebellion.

    He already lived through Nixon's election and wrote a bunch of stuff on that. We already know what he'd say for the most part. The only question is how he'd frame "you did it again america".

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    GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    Yea, like if only we had a very public scandal about failing to keep your government communications properly archived per protocol where even the complete lack of evidence of doing so was the basis for months of investigation and dozens of news stories.

    No, surely Republicans would never want to impugn the integrity of a sitting president.

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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Bush scores exactly the same amount of points for coming to the defense of the press with no actual action taken as McCain does when he makes noises of dissent but does nothing about it.

    Zero.

    I'll go with with a somewhat different zero. During the opening days of the Iraq war there were multiple incidents of targeting of journalists: the Palestine Hotel, which was housing lots/most foreign journalists, and the offices of Arab stations, resulting in the death of multiple journalists. Largely excused by his officials by saying those journalists should join the "embedded" journalists program. They were clearly interested in intimidating any journalists that did not want to report the war from behind American lines helpfully sometimes saying "we" identifying the press and viewer with the government and troops, all becoming one.

    Bush would be a credible person to talk about press freedom if not for the small matter of his legacy.

    smCQ5WE.jpg
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    TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Also, the press got a lot of it's recent unpopularity by selling the Iraq war. So it's worse than zero, since Bush's mere presence weakens even more the credibility of the press.

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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    spool32 wrote: »
    idk, SiG!

    There are no attacks on the Constitutional Freedom of the Press happening, ergo nothing is on topic.


    /thread?

    It's entirely possible this will never come to a constitutional issue, but the constitution (any constitution) is too narrow a lense through which to view the issue of press freedom. We need our journalists to expose the truth of what the government is doing, but to do that they need more than the freedom to print. Journalists need people to with information to talk, because for journalism is not enough to have cynicism and a hunch that something is untoward is happening; journalists need credible sources. A president like Trump could simply go down the path of least resistance. Ruthlessly dig to find the leakers and whistleblowers and show no mercy when you find them, using all the tools provided by the DoJ and enforcement and intelligence agencies. You don't need to make an example of too many before a message is sent through the departments that it's just not worth it. That Politico story, which we all must admit is hella funny, could play out differently in a different department where a bit of surveillance or competence is used and someone goes to jail for years and suddenly nothing is heard from inside the State or Justice departments.

    But the biggest danger is the unknown combined with bad intentions. To try to predict the future we're sometimes shackled to the past, and like most I lack the imagination to see what it is he will do. Until an outlet is suited out of existence no outlet has been sued out of existence, until a journalist is threatened with jail no journalists has been threatened with jail, and until Trump does what no before him has done it's hard to know what it is. And that's kind of a fuzzy argument, but it is dangerous to try to predict the future based on the past as if everything repeats itself infinitely. At a minimum, it's best to take Trump at his words that the press is his enemy and he will treat it as such.

    His statements didn't harm press freedom, but they are serious words that mean no one should surprised if what follows does, and act accordingly.

    smCQ5WE.jpg
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    RobonunRobonun It's all fun and games until someone pisses off China Registered User regular
    Cello wrote: »
    I believe the NYT ad is also on the DC metro ad screens. My train went by too quickly to get a photo; if I see them again this week I'll catch some for you guys.

    Speaking of DC, the Washington Post made their own statement by putting their new motto on the masthead: Democracy Dies in Darkness. I mentioned it in one of the other Trump threads but it goes better here.

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Sean Spicer took the first step in actually retaliating against the press, having a bogus (fake news, like the actual definition) story planted to try and smear a journalist that reported on Spicer's "stop leaking things" meeting with his staff. I've gotta say, this is getting increasingly gross of the administration.

    http://www.rawstory.com/2017/02/sean-spicer-threatened-to-smear-reporter-before-white-house-anonymously-planted-bogus-story-report/

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    cursedkingcursedking Registered User regular
    Holy shit, reporters record your phone calls

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    cursedking wrote: »
    Holy shit, reporters record your phone calls
    Watch for a rushed increase in two party consent wiretap laws. I know some places only require one side to consent (usually the one making the recording), but some places require both participants to consent (funnily, nearly all are "liberal" states, CA, CT, FL, IL, MD, MA, MT, NH, PA, WA). So if reporters started doing it, watch for that to be criminalized right quick.

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    Mr KhanMr Khan Not Everyone WAHHHRegistered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    cursedking wrote: »
    Holy shit, reporters record your phone calls
    Watch for a rushed increase in two party consent wiretap laws. I know some places only require one side to consent (usually the one making the recording), but some places require both participants to consent (funnily, nearly all are "liberal" states, CA, CT, FL, IL, MD, MA, MT, NH, PA, WA). So if reporters started doing it, watch for that to be criminalized right quick.

    Meh, if it came to that, i'm sure you could add an app to your phone to automatically preface your calls with "this call may be monitored or recorded," since not hanging up when you hear that seems to count as consent enough.

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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Mr Khan wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    cursedking wrote: »
    Holy shit, reporters record your phone calls
    Watch for a rushed increase in two party consent wiretap laws. I know some places only require one side to consent (usually the one making the recording), but some places require both participants to consent (funnily, nearly all are "liberal" states, CA, CT, FL, IL, MD, MA, MT, NH, PA, WA). So if reporters started doing it, watch for that to be criminalized right quick.

    Meh, if it came to that, i'm sure you could add an app to your phone to automatically preface your calls with "this call may be monitored or recorded," since not hanging up when you hear that seems to count as consent enough.

    Also many states have exemptions specifically for illegal activity- you can record anyone threatening you or asking you to do something illegal regardless.

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    Mr. FusionMr. Fusion Registered User regular
    Mr Khan wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    cursedking wrote: »
    Holy shit, reporters record your phone calls
    Watch for a rushed increase in two party consent wiretap laws. I know some places only require one side to consent (usually the one making the recording), but some places require both participants to consent (funnily, nearly all are "liberal" states, CA, CT, FL, IL, MD, MA, MT, NH, PA, WA). So if reporters started doing it, watch for that to be criminalized right quick.

    Meh, if it came to that, i'm sure you could add an app to your phone to automatically preface your calls with "this call may be monitored or recorded," since not hanging up when you hear that seems to count as consent enough.

    I think you could explicitly state you don't consent to being recorded, then any recording is now illegal.

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    So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    One solution is to stop talking to Spicer.

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    One solution is to stop talking to Spicer.
    That would only work if the entirety of the journalism world stopped. The problem is, Infowars and Breitbart and other small places would jump on their chance to make it to the big time.

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    If the administration isn't going to play nice with the media, the media has no incentive to give them a platform to tell their side of things. In fact, I would argue they have a duty to not be a propaganda vehicle for Trump.

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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Sean Spicer took the first step in actually retaliating against the press, having a bogus (fake news, like the actual definition) story planted to try and smear a journalist that reported on Spicer's "stop leaking things" meeting with his staff. I've gotta say, this is getting increasingly gross of the administration.

    http://www.rawstory.com/2017/02/sean-spicer-threatened-to-smear-reporter-before-white-house-anonymously-planted-bogus-story-report/
    I'm confused, what's the FAKE NEWS on that story? The laughter?

    steam_sig.png
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited February 2017
    Spoit wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Sean Spicer took the first step in actually retaliating against the press, having a bogus (fake news, like the actual definition) story planted to try and smear a journalist that reported on Spicer's "stop leaking things" meeting with his staff. I've gotta say, this is getting increasingly gross of the administration.

    http://www.rawstory.com/2017/02/sean-spicer-threatened-to-smear-reporter-before-white-house-anonymously-planted-bogus-story-report/
    I'm confused, what's the FAKE NEWS on that story? The laughter?
    The fake part is that the journalist was laughing about a Navy SEAL being killed. The real story is the journalist was laughing because Spicer had a staffer fake-cry at the mention of said Navy SEAL and it was obvious.

    Edit - And yes it's a stupid petty thing, but that's how all these sorts of things start. Just wait until more inflammatory and libel / slanderous things start happening.

    Henroid on
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    .
    Henroid wrote: »
    Sean Spicer took the first step in actually retaliating against the press, having a bogus (fake news, like the actual definition) story planted to try and smear a journalist that reported on Spicer's "stop leaking things" meeting with his staff. I've gotta say, this is getting increasingly gross of the administration.

    http://www.rawstory.com/2017/02/sean-spicer-threatened-to-smear-reporter-before-white-house-anonymously-planted-bogus-story-report/

    It sounds like the WH did it again with Rumana Ahbed.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2017/02/rumana-ahmed-weekly-standard/518184/
    On Monday, the Weekly Standard published an article by Lee Smith titled “Fake News, Exposed.” It alleged that Rumana Ahmed, a former National Security Council staffer and the author of an Atlantic essay about why she left the Trump administration, had misled readers about the nature of her position.

    “Ahmed was a political appointee in the Obama White House. According to Trump White House officials, it was very late in her tenure in the Obama administration when she applied for a civil service position with administrative duties,” Smith wrote. “‘Burrowing,’ as it's commonly called, is the process through which political appointees move into career government status. She was granted her new status at the end of January, just as the Trump team was moving into the White House.”

    In fact, Ahmed held a term appointment that was not set to expire until the summer of 2018. Ahmed’s employment documents, which were reviewed by The Atlantic, show that her position with the NSC, which began in June 2014, was a Schedule A excepted service term appointment. Her term was renewed for another two years in August 2016.

    [...]
    Sounds like they are going to conservative news outlets and feeding actual lies.

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    ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Interesting article in the Times today about the constitutionality or lack thereof of the press exclusions, in the context of a federal ruling in Manhattan yesterday concerning appropriateness of the NYPD singling out journalists to de-credential, and a few other cases over the years where the legality of those sorts of decisions been challenged.

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    QanamilQanamil x Registered User regular
    House intelligence chair to reporters: ‘Do you want us to conduct an investigation on you?’
    “Look, I'm sure some of you are in contact with the Russian Embassy,” Nunes told a group of journalists. “So be careful what you ask for here. ... Do you want us to conduct an investigation on you or other Americans because you were talking to the Russian Embassy? I just think we need to be careful.”

This discussion has been closed.