Usually the example given is Daley putting dead people on the ballot for JFK. But even that was 50 years ago.
Kris Kobach tried as hard as he could to find evidence of the massive voter fraud he was convinced was going on. All he got were a lot of false positives and a lot of wasted taxpayer money.
In instances of technical voter fraud we have a black woman in texas who voted in the 2016 via provisional ballot at her church not realizing that an earlier felony conviction barred her for doing so, and a white woman in Iowa that knowingly voted for Trump twice.
Black woman gets 5 years in prison.
White woman gets 2 years probation.
I went and read a lot of articles about fraud in the 40s and the overwhelming examples of corruption with a lot of evidence were....
1) bribing voters -> Lots
2) corrupt officials sabotaging machines -> Lots
3) corrupt officials miscounting ballots -> Lots
4) corrupt party officials controlling the votes of large union groups and witholding those votes until the candidates bribed them -> Some
5) People voting in the wrong precinct -> Rare
6) Ineligable votes -> Anecdotal
I did look, but I can't find any real details about people voting in 10 places, or dead people voting. I can find anecdotes about that happening, but no real contemporary accounts and articles saying "We uncovered 10000 votes cast by 500 people who voted 20 times!"
The other 'centralized/bribery' ones are full of good examples and research. They did happen a lot. But, they were stopped with other laws, not with careful lists of ballots.
And, honestly problems 5 and 6 even at the anecdotal level predate voting ink. Dip the thumb nail in the silver nitrate ink and the issue vanishes. Voting in the wrong precinct MIGHT still exist, but honestly, if there is a massive incentive for people to do that then your districting is broken and you should fix that instead.
"That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
I went and read a lot of articles about fraud in the 40s and the overwhelming examples of corruption with a lot of evidence were....
1) bribing voters -> Lots
2) corrupt officials sabotaging machines -> Lots
3) corrupt officials miscounting ballots -> Lots
4) corrupt party officials controlling the votes of large union groups and witholding those votes until the candidates bribed them -> Some
5) People voting in the wrong precinct -> Rare
6) Ineligable votes -> Anecdotal
I did look, but I can't find any real details about people voting in 10 places, or dead people voting. I can find anecdotes about that happening, but no real contemporary accounts and articles saying "We uncovered 10000 votes cast by 500 people who voted 20 times!"
The other 'centralized/bribery' ones are full of good examples and research. They did happen a lot. But, they were stopped with other laws, not with careful lists of ballots.
And, honestly problems 5 and 6 even at the anecdotal level predate voting ink. Dip the thumb nail in the silver nitrate ink and the issue vanishes. Voting in the wrong precinct MIGHT still exist, but honestly, if there is a massive incentive for people to do that then your districting is broken and you should fix that instead.
I'm fairly certain a lady voted with her dead husbands mail in ballot for Trump.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
I went and read a lot of articles about fraud in the 40s and the overwhelming examples of corruption with a lot of evidence were....
1) bribing voters -> Lots
2) corrupt officials sabotaging machines -> Lots
3) corrupt officials miscounting ballots -> Lots
4) corrupt party officials controlling the votes of large union groups and witholding those votes until the candidates bribed them -> Some
5) People voting in the wrong precinct -> Rare
6) Ineligable votes -> Anecdotal
I did look, but I can't find any real details about people voting in 10 places, or dead people voting. I can find anecdotes about that happening, but no real contemporary accounts and articles saying "We uncovered 10000 votes cast by 500 people who voted 20 times!"
The other 'centralized/bribery' ones are full of good examples and research. They did happen a lot. But, they were stopped with other laws, not with careful lists of ballots.
And, honestly problems 5 and 6 even at the anecdotal level predate voting ink. Dip the thumb nail in the silver nitrate ink and the issue vanishes. Voting in the wrong precinct MIGHT still exist, but honestly, if there is a massive incentive for people to do that then your districting is broken and you should fix that instead.
I'm fairly certain a lady voted with her dead husbands mail in ballot for Trump.
Yeah, but my point here is that even if we go back to the 40s (when there was a lot of voter fraud) I can't find good examples of mass fraud which would have been stopped by good, accurate lists of voters. Its overwhelmingly corrupt election officials and bribery.
I went and read a lot of articles about fraud in the 40s and the overwhelming examples of corruption with a lot of evidence were....
1) bribing voters -> Lots
2) corrupt officials sabotaging machines -> Lots
3) corrupt officials miscounting ballots -> Lots
4) corrupt party officials controlling the votes of large union groups and witholding those votes until the candidates bribed them -> Some
5) People voting in the wrong precinct -> Rare
6) Ineligable votes -> Anecdotal
I did look, but I can't find any real details about people voting in 10 places, or dead people voting. I can find anecdotes about that happening, but no real contemporary accounts and articles saying "We uncovered 10000 votes cast by 500 people who voted 20 times!"
The other 'centralized/bribery' ones are full of good examples and research. They did happen a lot. But, they were stopped with other laws, not with careful lists of ballots.
And, honestly problems 5 and 6 even at the anecdotal level predate voting ink. Dip the thumb nail in the silver nitrate ink and the issue vanishes. Voting in the wrong precinct MIGHT still exist, but honestly, if there is a massive incentive for people to do that then your districting is broken and you should fix that instead.
I'm fairly certain a lady voted with her dead husbands mail in ballot for Trump.
Yeah, but my point here is that even if we go back to the 40s (when there was a lot of voter fraud) I can't find good examples of mass fraud which would have been stopped by good, accurate lists of voters. Its overwhelmingly corrupt election officials and bribery.
This has basically been the case for all of human history. The biggest place for fraud is the person counting the ballots.
BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
Or paying mercenaries to hold the ballot boxes hostage so that only the tribes that will support you can vote... Wait, sorry, that was a democracy, not a republic.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
Or paying mercenaries to hold the ballot boxes hostage so that only the tribes that will support you can vote... Wait, sorry, that was a democracy, not a republic.
Okay, yeah. But basically, any fraud, to be effective, has to be more than the individual level.
OMG. The federal judge sanctioned Kobach with 6 hours of continuing legal education that "pertain to federal or Kansas civil rules of procedure or evidence."
The elections director for Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach told county clerks in a conference call Tuesday to continue enforcing a proof of citizenship law that a federal judge ruled unconstitutional.
“I think ‘immediately’ is kind of open to interpretation,” she [Kobach's spokeswoman] said.
Getting charged with contempt of court to own the libs.
The elections director for Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach told county clerks in a conference call Tuesday to continue enforcing a proof of citizenship law that a federal judge ruled unconstitutional.
“I think ‘immediately’ is kind of open to interpretation,” she [Kobach's spokeswoman] said.
Getting charged with contempt of court to own the libs.
Can I get a written notification as to when words will start meaning things once again?
Or is this one of those catch-22 situations?
All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
"As soon as possible" is open to interpretation. "Before the next election" is open t interpretation. "Immediately" is pretty damned clear cut. There is "aleady done" then "immediately" and then "literally any other point in all eternity."
Oh, you want to play games with the judge who just sentenced you to remedial summer school? Let me know how that works out for you.
The elections director for Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach told county clerks in a conference call Tuesday to continue enforcing a proof of citizenship law that a federal judge ruled unconstitutional.
“I think ‘immediately’ is kind of open to interpretation,” she [Kobach's spokeswoman] said.
Getting charged with contempt of court to own the libs.
Can I get a written notification as to when words will start meaning things once again?
Or is this one of those catch-22 situations?
He's playing the Jackson card of "now let them enforce it"
The elections director for Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach told county clerks in a conference call Tuesday to continue enforcing a proof of citizenship law that a federal judge ruled unconstitutional.
“I think ‘immediately’ is kind of open to interpretation,” she [Kobach's spokeswoman] said.
Getting charged with contempt of court to own the libs.
Can I get a written notification as to when words will start meaning things once again?
Or is this one of those catch-22 situations?
He's playing the Jackson card of "now let them enforce it"
He's not the president. He can be tossed in a holding cell for contempt of the court order. So can his underlings.
All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
The elections director for Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach told county clerks in a conference call Tuesday to continue enforcing a proof of citizenship law that a federal judge ruled unconstitutional.
“I think ‘immediately’ is kind of open to interpretation,” she [Kobach's spokeswoman] said.
Getting charged with contempt of court to own the libs.
Can I get a written notification as to when words will start meaning things once again?
Or is this one of those catch-22 situations?
He's playing the Jackson card of "now let them enforce it"
He's not the president. He can be tossed in a holding cell for contempt of the court order. So can his underlings.
And this judge ordered him to take classes because his knowledge of the law was so poor. I don't think she will have any issue throwing his ass in jail.
The elections director for Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach told county clerks in a conference call Tuesday to continue enforcing a proof of citizenship law that a federal judge ruled unconstitutional.
“I think ‘immediately’ is kind of open to interpretation,” she [Kobach's spokeswoman] said.
Getting charged with contempt of court to own the libs.
Can I get a written notification as to when words will start meaning things once again?
Or is this one of those catch-22 situations?
He's playing the Jackson card of "now let them enforce it"
He's not the president. He can be tossed in a holding cell for contempt of the court order. So can his underlings.
And this judge ordered him to take classes because his knowledge of the law was so poor. I don't think she will have any issue throwing his ass in jail.
Counterpoint: "Well I guess I'm just too stupid to understand what the court is asking us to do!"
The elections director for Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach told county clerks in a conference call Tuesday to continue enforcing a proof of citizenship law that a federal judge ruled unconstitutional.
“I think ‘immediately’ is kind of open to interpretation,” she [Kobach's spokeswoman] said.
Getting charged with contempt of court to own the libs.
Wow. Judges do not like being told "fuck your decision".
The elections director for Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach told county clerks in a conference call Tuesday to continue enforcing a proof of citizenship law that a federal judge ruled unconstitutional.
“I think ‘immediately’ is kind of open to interpretation,” she [Kobach's spokeswoman] said.
Getting charged with contempt of court to own the libs.
Wow. Judges do not like being told "fuck your decision".
He's gonna find out exactly what immediately means
The elections director for Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach told county clerks in a conference call Tuesday to continue enforcing a proof of citizenship law that a federal judge ruled unconstitutional.
“I think ‘immediately’ is kind of open to interpretation,” she [Kobach's spokeswoman] said.
Getting charged with contempt of court to own the libs.
Wow. Judges do not like being told "fuck your decision".
He's gonna find out exactly what immediately means
In that the judge is going to order his ass thrown into jail for contempt - immediately?
The elections director for Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach told county clerks in a conference call Tuesday to continue enforcing a proof of citizenship law that a federal judge ruled unconstitutional.
“I think ‘immediately’ is kind of open to interpretation,” she [Kobach's spokeswoman] said.
Getting charged with contempt of court to own the libs.
Wow. Judges do not like being told "fuck your decision".
Later: "Ok, ok, I've complied with your decision. Can I get out of jail now?"
Judge: "That's open to interpretaion."
Flagging the mods, because I'm not 100% on gerrymandering measures going in this thread, but Michigan's effort to eliminate it is officially on the ballot as of today. I also posted it in the Michigan thread. Details on this system are here:
Flagging the mods, because I'm not 100% on gerrymandering measures going in this thread, but Michigan's effort to eliminate it is officially on the ballot as of today. I also posted it in the Michigan thread. Details on this system are here:
The Commission would consist of 13 registered Michigan voters who are randomly selected from people who apply. The Commission is designed so that all Michigan voters are represented, as fully as possible, in the process of drawing our districts. The final breakdown of the 13 members will consist of: four Republicans*, four Democrats*, and five independent members who affiliate with no party or a third-party.
This seems flawed.
I'm a "Republican."
The lady who wouldn't sign gay marriage certs was a "Democrat."
All manner of extreme left and right are technically "neither"
Party registration seems like a bad metric on which to judge partisan bias. Especially with the independent / third party group. You're better off letting the state parties put up their own candidates, then using a coin toss tie breaker.
(Which you're essentially doing with the randomly selection of five (I) members.)
Yeah, I'm not super happy with this system. However, it literally could not be worse than the one we have now, where the legislature is rigged for permanent Republican majorities.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Posts
And a contempt of court charge.
Black woman gets 5 years in prison.
White woman gets 2 years probation.
I think that's kind of baked into the Boogeyman.
1) bribing voters -> Lots
2) corrupt officials sabotaging machines -> Lots
3) corrupt officials miscounting ballots -> Lots
4) corrupt party officials controlling the votes of large union groups and witholding those votes until the candidates bribed them -> Some
5) People voting in the wrong precinct -> Rare
6) Ineligable votes -> Anecdotal
I did look, but I can't find any real details about people voting in 10 places, or dead people voting. I can find anecdotes about that happening, but no real contemporary accounts and articles saying "We uncovered 10000 votes cast by 500 people who voted 20 times!"
The other 'centralized/bribery' ones are full of good examples and research. They did happen a lot. But, they were stopped with other laws, not with careful lists of ballots.
And, honestly problems 5 and 6 even at the anecdotal level predate voting ink. Dip the thumb nail in the silver nitrate ink and the issue vanishes. Voting in the wrong precinct MIGHT still exist, but honestly, if there is a massive incentive for people to do that then your districting is broken and you should fix that instead.
I'm fairly certain a lady voted with her dead husbands mail in ballot for Trump.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Yeah, but my point here is that even if we go back to the 40s (when there was a lot of voter fraud) I can't find good examples of mass fraud which would have been stopped by good, accurate lists of voters. Its overwhelmingly corrupt election officials and bribery.
This has basically been the case for all of human history. The biggest place for fraud is the person counting the ballots.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Okay, yeah. But basically, any fraud, to be effective, has to be more than the individual level.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
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Ah well, as a Kansan, it pleases me to no end to see Kobach getting literally schooled.
"Do you really want a governor who is so inept that he was order by a court of law to go back to school?"
Kansas: yes actually!
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
No see he went to school and learned. The anti intellectuals despise improving yourself
Getting charged with contempt of court to own the libs.
Can I get a written notification as to when words will start meaning things once again?
Or is this one of those catch-22 situations?
Oh, you want to play games with the judge who just sentenced you to remedial summer school? Let me know how that works out for you.
He's playing the Jackson card of "now let them enforce it"
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
He's not the president. He can be tossed in a holding cell for contempt of the court order. So can his underlings.
And this judge ordered him to take classes because his knowledge of the law was so poor. I don't think she will have any issue throwing his ass in jail.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
Well, you'd fucking hope so at this point. We'll see in November.
Counterpoint: "Well I guess I'm just too stupid to understand what the court is asking us to do!"
Wow. Judges do not like being told "fuck your decision".
He's gonna find out exactly what immediately means
In that the judge is going to order his ass thrown into jail for contempt - immediately?
Later: "Ok, ok, I've complied with your decision. Can I get out of jail now?"
Judge: "That's open to interpretaion."
Flagging the mods, because I'm not 100% on gerrymandering measures going in this thread, but Michigan's effort to eliminate it is officially on the ballot as of today. I also posted it in the Michigan thread. Details on this system are here:
https://www.votersnotpoliticians.com/
This seems flawed.
I'm a "Republican."
The lady who wouldn't sign gay marriage certs was a "Democrat."
All manner of extreme left and right are technically "neither"
Party registration seems like a bad metric on which to judge partisan bias. Especially with the independent / third party group. You're better off letting the state parties put up their own candidates, then using a coin toss tie breaker.
(Which you're essentially doing with the randomly selection of five (I) members.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Citizens_Redistricting_Commission
The 14-member commission consists of five Democrats, five Republicans, and four commissioners from neither major party.
I really like our maps that have come out of this.
I know I feel represented. Every time Ted Lieu tweets I want to make that airhorn *BWAH baw bew bew BEEW*