The Battle Over Voting Rights (also Gerrymandering)

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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    Reminder: NY's ranked choice voting is only for primaries and special elections, not general elections. Unfortunate, but a move in the right direction.

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  • A Kobold's KoboldA Kobold's Kobold He/Him MississippiRegistered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Reminder: NY's ranked choice voting is only for primaries and special elections, not general elections. Unfortunate, but a move in the right direction.

    Given the margins for the ballot measure, I would like to think hope that the momentum's there for continued change in this direction

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Reminder: NY's ranked choice voting is only for primaries and special elections, not general elections. Unfortunate, but a move in the right direction.

    Given the margins for the ballot measure, I would like to think hope that the momentum's there for continued change in this direction

    And also going statewide.

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    :+1:

    EDIT: Forgot this was a political thread and needed substance. Is there anywhere else in the US with ranked choice?

    Maine if I'm not mistaken

    Wasn't the Governor doing his absolute best to fuck that over in implementation as hard as possible?

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  • Man in the MistsMan in the Mists Registered User regular
    Yep, because if there had been ranked choice in Maine it wouldn't have mattered that there was a three-way race with two opponents that had roughly the same voter demographic.

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  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
  • RaijuRaiju regular Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Potentially the biggest voting rights story of the evening.


    I remember the John Oliver 'Last Week Tonight' segment about felony voting rights (or lack thereof). Florida, are you listening?

  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    Raiju wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Potentially the biggest voting rights story of the evening.


    I remember the John Oliver 'Last Week Tonight' segment about felony voting rights (or lack thereof). Florida, are you listening?

    The Florida constitution now says all those people with felony convictions can vote (after serving their sentence, and no further requirements). The GOP is trying to ignore that because it's inconvenient.

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  • MillMill Registered User regular
    Something that could go into the VA politics thread, but fits well here.

    https://wtop.com/local-politics-elections-news/2019/11/stafford-voters-get-wrong-ballots-again-will-be-counted-anyway-in-tight-va-house-races-2/

    I'm expecting a push against split district precincts in VA, since IIRC the Stafford precinct in question is split and they had the same fucking issue in 2017. Also expecting an investigation into how to better handle ballot shortages. I'd say have more on hand because people really shouldn't get turned away because there aren't enough ballots. Both are good arguments to just copy Oregon and Washington and just mail ballots to everyone.

  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Raiju wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Potentially the biggest voting rights story of the evening.


    I remember the John Oliver 'Last Week Tonight' segment about felony voting rights (or lack thereof). Florida, are you listening?

    The Florida constitution now says all those people with felony convictions can vote (after serving their sentence, and no further requirements). The GOP is trying to ignore that because it's inconvenient.

    And the GOP's "OK, but obviously not the poors" compromise law is in court. Trial set for April:

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/7/2/20677955/amendment-4-florida-felon-voting-rights-injunction-lawsuits-fines-fees

    MegaMek
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    Yep, because if there had been ranked choice in Maine it wouldn't have mattered that there was a three-way race with two opponents that had roughly the same voter demographic.

    Meanwhile: The Kentucky Governor's race currently has the GOP candidate down less than half a percent with the Libertarian candidate taking two.

    RCV: It could work for you too, the Kentucky GOP.

  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Raiju wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Potentially the biggest voting rights story of the evening.


    I remember the John Oliver 'Last Week Tonight' segment about felony voting rights (or lack thereof). Florida, are you listening?

    The Florida constitution now says all those people with felony convictions can vote (after serving their sentence, and no further requirements). The GOP is trying to ignore that because it's inconvenient.

    And the GOP's "OK, but obviously not the poors" compromise law is in court. Trial set for April:

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/7/2/20677955/amendment-4-florida-felon-voting-rights-injunction-lawsuits-fines-fees

    April, you say?

    With delays, continuances, general fuckery, and any potential appeals (assuming this isn't at the State Supreme Court?), I'm feeling confident that the Republicans can delay this long enough that "Oh noes, it's too close to the election to implement this!".

    I really hope the people suing on behalf of the disenfranchised put a motion before the judge that reasonable measures be adopted so that if the judge (jury?) rules on their behalf, that it'll be implementable in time for November.

    That the Republicans have been able to dick this around for near 18 months once this trial starts, shouldn't mean they get to run out the clock on getting these people their rights back for 2020.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Yep, because if there had been ranked choice in Maine it wouldn't have mattered that there was a three-way race with two opponents that had roughly the same voter demographic.

    Meanwhile: The Kentucky Governor's race currently has the GOP candidate down less than half a percent with the Libertarian candidate taking two.

    RCV: It could work for you too, the Kentucky GOP.

    The Libertarian party tends to serve as the Republican protest vote sink, like the Greens for the Democrats.

    Commander ZoomRedTide
  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    Yep, because if there had been ranked choice in Maine it wouldn't have mattered that there was a three-way race with two opponents that had roughly the same voter demographic.

    Meanwhile: The Kentucky Governor's race currently has the GOP candidate down less than half a percent with the Libertarian candidate taking two.

    RCV: It could work for you too, the Kentucky GOP.

    Kentucky GOP doesn't need RCV. The State Senate is claiming the Libertarian votes would have obviously gone to Bevin, so they're contesting the results and picking who they think should win, i.e. Bevin, despite his losing.

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  • DisruptedCapitalistDisruptedCapitalist rugged, weathered Registered User regular
    I don't get it. That article doesn't explain where the 140k number comes from. It links to another article that says 170k, but that one doesn't explain that number either. Why are some ex-felons on the list and some not? I mean I guess we shouldn't complain since Kentucky is one of the states with the most regressive anti-voting policies out there (second to Florida, of course) but it's bewildering that there needs to be a distinction.

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    In good news, the local news in New Hampshire reports that one of our most dubious electoral traditions is on the verge of extinction:



    Yup, the tradition of Dixville Notch voting at midnight may soon be a thing of the past - and good riddance.

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    The reason being there are now only 4 people there and they need at least 5 positions filled in order to hold an election

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  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    People actually finding out about Dixville Notch's tiny petty voter fraud ring probably has something to do with it too. Non-residents voting because they used to live there like two decades ago and pinky-swearing they aren't voting elsewhere too? That's basically what their whole deal was, the types of Republicans who scream about voter fraud because they're all big piles of projection.

    So yes, good riddance. (And Crawford Notch is prettier too.)

  • YallYall Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    In good news, the local news in New Hampshire reports that one of our most dubious electoral traditions is on the verge of extinction:



    Yup, the tradition of Dixville Notch voting at midnight may soon be a thing of the past - and good riddance.

    Unless I'm missing something, I fail to see how the timing is the issue itself (and frankly I'm perfectly OK with expanding the voting times to accommodate more people being able to vote). Rather it seems that some people are simply using prior residency and claiming ignorance to double vote.

    Considering the town's tiny population this should be easy to identify and prosecute.

    I don't see how moving it to say 6AM solves the problem of people willfully committing voter fraud.

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Yall wrote: »
    In good news, the local news in New Hampshire reports that one of our most dubious electoral traditions is on the verge of extinction:



    Yup, the tradition of Dixville Notch voting at midnight may soon be a thing of the past - and good riddance.

    Unless I'm missing something, I fail to see how the timing is the issue itself (and frankly I'm perfectly OK with expanding the voting times to accommodate more people being able to vote). Rather it seems that some people are simply using prior residency and claiming ignorance to double vote.

    Considering the town's tiny population this should be easy to identify and prosecute.

    I don't see how moving it to say 6AM solves the problem of people willfully committing voter fraud.

    It doesn't prevent voter fraud. But I'm thinking it does stop a twisting of the narrative.

    Much like how Iowa and New Hampshire get a lot of power from being first, and therefore driving the narrative of who's electable and who's not, by Dixville voting early (and having the results released immediately, apparently), and by it making it into morning papers and breakfast television, it can influence the broader electorate, because it's proven that people CAN be swayed by this shit.

    Granted, my basis for this theory is stolen from the West Wing episode Hartsfield's Landing (there's also a narrative that it's been predictive for almost a century, "Hartsfield has predicted the winner in every presidential election since William Howard Taft", so much longer than this tradition, which is less than 60 years old). But it doesn't make it wrong.

    CelestialBadgerMartini_Philosopher
  • YallYall Registered User regular
    Seems to me that has more to do with responsible journalism. I mean we know people are generally fucking idiots. To that end the NYT could report on what a chicken from Alaska ate the night before and how it's predicted the last 6 elections accurately. Yes I understand that's a lot less correlatable than actual votes but I still say the reporting bodies carry some of that weight to not use polling or early results that way.

    Also I'd be remiss in not asking is there nothing New Englanders don't cheat at? ;)

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  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Well, I guess we should end this hellhole of a year with at least a tiny bit of good news: North Carolina's voter ID law has been struck down by a federal judge as it was clearly, obviously created with discriminatory intent.

    I suspect that voter ID laws will start to decline over the next few years, but only because purging the voting rolls has a greater effect on election results than voter ID laws. The GOP has been pushing voter purges much harder over the past couple years for this reason; it's a way to disenfranchise people Republicans don't want voting.

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  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Speaking of voter purges, there's one for 200,000 people that's being held up in courts in Wisconsin, but the right-wingers of course don't want to wait (since they might not get the results they want). So they're trying to force the issue by making a judge hold the state Election Commission in contempt and fine them each* $2000/day until the voters are purged, legality be damned.

    If/when they win, expect to see voter roll purges of everyone in Democratic areas across the country before November.

    *Excluding one Republican on the Election Commission, because of course.

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  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    For the record, Wisconsin still has same day registration which only requires an ID (which is needed to vote anyway) and proof of address (aka an envelope with your name and address printed on it), so the number this prevents from voting will be small but unfortunately probably not zero.

  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    Veevee wrote: »
    For the record, Wisconsin still has same day registration which only requires an ID (which is needed to vote anyway) and proof of address (aka an envelope with your name and address printed on it), so the number this prevents from voting will be small but unfortunately probably not zero.

    They don't notify you if you've been purged though, right? So you go to vote, get told you're not registered, and have to go home and get a bill in order to register again.

    V wrote:
    Words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth.

  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    Veevee wrote: »
    For the record, Wisconsin still has same day registration which only requires an ID (which is needed to vote anyway) and proof of address (aka an envelope with your name and address printed on it), so the number this prevents from voting will be small but unfortunately probably not zero.

    They don't notify you if you've been purged though, right? So you go to vote, get told you're not registered, and have to go home and get a bill in order to register again.

    They don't tell you, but you are able to check if and where you are registered online. The local news has occasionally been running stories about how to check

    I am not saying the purge is ok, I am saying this is going to unnecessarily cause a lot of headache to stop a relatively small number of people from voting. I am trying to be positive and see this as a desperation tactic by the state GOP

  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Veevee wrote: »
    For the record, Wisconsin still has same day registration which only requires an ID (which is needed to vote anyway) and proof of address (aka an envelope with your name and address printed on it), so the number this prevents from voting will be small but unfortunately probably not zero.

    NPR actually talked to someone fighting this and pointed out Wsconsin's same day registration.

    Guy pointed out that most people don't carry the letter their utility bill came in with them everywhere they go.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    I haven't recieved a physical utility bill in ages. I make it all digital when available. Don't need to kill a tree when I'm just going to pay the bill online anyway.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    I wish I could "unsubscribe" to the dead tree catalogues I get for buying clothes online.

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    For the record, Wisconsin still has same day registration which only requires an ID (which is needed to vote anyway) and proof of address (aka an envelope with your name and address printed on it), so the number this prevents from voting will be small but unfortunately probably not zero.

    NPR actually talked to someone fighting this and pointed out Wsconsin's same day registration.

    Guy pointed out that most people don't carry the letter their utility bill came in with them everywhere they go.

    Shouldn't the address on your ID count for that? Meaning it mostly targets renters.

  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    edited January 3
    moniker wrote: »
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    For the record, Wisconsin still has same day registration which only requires an ID (which is needed to vote anyway) and proof of address (aka an envelope with your name and address printed on it), so the number this prevents from voting will be small but unfortunately probably not zero.

    NPR actually talked to someone fighting this and pointed out Wsconsin's same day registration.

    Guy pointed out that most people don't carry the letter their utility bill came in with them everywhere they go.

    Shouldn't the address on your ID count for that? Meaning it mostly targets renters.

    Nope, in Wisconsin you can list any address you want on the ID. It is best to think of it as your mailing address, not your residence address.

    Edit: you have to be contactable at the address, and you do have to provide proof of address when getting the ID, but as far as I understand you do not have to live at the address on the ID

    Veevee on
  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Veevee wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    For the record, Wisconsin still has same day registration which only requires an ID (which is needed to vote anyway) and proof of address (aka an envelope with your name and address printed on it), so the number this prevents from voting will be small but unfortunately probably not zero.

    They don't notify you if you've been purged though, right? So you go to vote, get told you're not registered, and have to go home and get a bill in order to register again.

    They don't tell you, but you are able to check if and where you are registered online. The local news has occasionally been running stories about how to check

    I am not saying the purge is ok, I am saying this is going to unnecessarily cause a lot of headache to stop a relatively small number of people from voting. I am trying to be positive and see this as a desperation tactic by the state GOP

    The margins in a lot of states lately are small enough that stopping a relative handful of people from voting is enough to decide races and flip seats.

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  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    I wish I could "unsubscribe" to the dead tree catalogues I get for buying clothes online.

    @CelestialBadger

    In case you haven't already, there's ways to opt out of the bulk of it: https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0262-stopping-unsolicited-mail-phone-calls-and-email

    We still get junk but nowhere near the volume that we used to.

  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Veevee wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    For the record, Wisconsin still has same day registration which only requires an ID (which is needed to vote anyway) and proof of address (aka an envelope with your name and address printed on it), so the number this prevents from voting will be small but unfortunately probably not zero.

    NPR actually talked to someone fighting this and pointed out Wsconsin's same day registration.

    Guy pointed out that most people don't carry the letter their utility bill came in with them everywhere they go.

    Shouldn't the address on your ID count for that? Meaning it mostly targets renters.

    Nope, in Wisconsin you can list any address you want on the ID. It is best to think of it as your mailing address, not your residence address.

    Edit: you have to be contactable at the address, and you do have to provide proof of address when getting the ID, but as far as I understand you do not have to live at the address on the ID

    Also, unless I'm expecting too much, the utility would have to list your name? Meaning if you're renting/subletting a room, or sharing a house and utilities are under one person (both something a younger/college person to be), then you're probably shit out of luck? Same with married people who just do it under one person for simplicity's sake?

  • I ZimbraI Zimbra Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    For the record, Wisconsin still has same day registration which only requires an ID (which is needed to vote anyway) and proof of address (aka an envelope with your name and address printed on it), so the number this prevents from voting will be small but unfortunately probably not zero.

    NPR actually talked to someone fighting this and pointed out Wsconsin's same day registration.

    Guy pointed out that most people don't carry the letter their utility bill came in with them everywhere they go.

    Shouldn't the address on your ID count for that? Meaning it mostly targets renters.

    Nope, in Wisconsin you can list any address you want on the ID. It is best to think of it as your mailing address, not your residence address.

    Edit: you have to be contactable at the address, and you do have to provide proof of address when getting the ID, but as far as I understand you do not have to live at the address on the ID

    Also, unless I'm expecting too much, the utility would have to list your name? Meaning if you're renting/subletting a room, or sharing a house and utilities are under one person (both something a younger/college person to be), then you're probably shit out of luck? Same with married people who just do it under one person for simplicity's sake?

    It does have to be under your name but they accept a pretty wide array of options. Last time I showed them a PDF of my cell phone bill on my phone and they accepted it.

  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    I Zimbra wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    For the record, Wisconsin still has same day registration which only requires an ID (which is needed to vote anyway) and proof of address (aka an envelope with your name and address printed on it), so the number this prevents from voting will be small but unfortunately probably not zero.

    NPR actually talked to someone fighting this and pointed out Wsconsin's same day registration.

    Guy pointed out that most people don't carry the letter their utility bill came in with them everywhere they go.

    Shouldn't the address on your ID count for that? Meaning it mostly targets renters.

    Nope, in Wisconsin you can list any address you want on the ID. It is best to think of it as your mailing address, not your residence address.

    Edit: you have to be contactable at the address, and you do have to provide proof of address when getting the ID, but as far as I understand you do not have to live at the address on the ID

    Also, unless I'm expecting too much, the utility would have to list your name? Meaning if you're renting/subletting a room, or sharing a house and utilities are under one person (both something a younger/college person to be), then you're probably shit out of luck? Same with married people who just do it under one person for simplicity's sake?

    It does have to be under your name but they accept a pretty wide array of options. Last time I showed them a PDF of my cell phone bill on my phone and they accepted it.

    That's cool. I'm glad it's not completely red tapery, but it's still more likely to disproportionately affect younger voters (when I'm in the US, I constantly see "family plan" cell services advertising), which would either be part of the plan, or a happy side benefit for Republicans.

    Gnome-Interruptus
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited January 4
    MorganV wrote: »
    I Zimbra wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    For the record, Wisconsin still has same day registration which only requires an ID (which is needed to vote anyway) and proof of address (aka an envelope with your name and address printed on it), so the number this prevents from voting will be small but unfortunately probably not zero.

    NPR actually talked to someone fighting this and pointed out Wsconsin's same day registration.

    Guy pointed out that most people don't carry the letter their utility bill came in with them everywhere they go.

    Shouldn't the address on your ID count for that? Meaning it mostly targets renters.

    Nope, in Wisconsin you can list any address you want on the ID. It is best to think of it as your mailing address, not your residence address.

    Edit: you have to be contactable at the address, and you do have to provide proof of address when getting the ID, but as far as I understand you do not have to live at the address on the ID

    Also, unless I'm expecting too much, the utility would have to list your name? Meaning if you're renting/subletting a room, or sharing a house and utilities are under one person (both something a younger/college person to be), then you're probably shit out of luck? Same with married people who just do it under one person for simplicity's sake?

    It does have to be under your name but they accept a pretty wide array of options. Last time I showed them a PDF of my cell phone bill on my phone and they accepted it.

    That's cool. I'm glad it's not completely red tapery, but it's still more likely to disproportionately affect younger voters (when I'm in the US, I constantly see "family plan" cell services advertising), which would either be part of the plan, or a happy side benefit for Republicans.

    That would also impact seniors, though. My folks are just an extra line on my family plan to make things easier since I'm also their tech support.

    moniker on
    N1tSt4lker
  • LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    For the record, Wisconsin still has same day registration which only requires an ID (which is needed to vote anyway) and proof of address (aka an envelope with your name and address printed on it), so the number this prevents from voting will be small but unfortunately probably not zero.

    NPR actually talked to someone fighting this and pointed out Wsconsin's same day registration.

    Guy pointed out that most people don't carry the letter their utility bill came in with them everywhere they go.

    Shouldn't the address on your ID count for that? Meaning it mostly targets renters.

    Nope, in Wisconsin you can list any address you want on the ID. It is best to think of it as your mailing address, not your residence address.

    Edit: you have to be contactable at the address, and you do have to provide proof of address when getting the ID, but as far as I understand you do not have to live at the address on the ID

    Also, unless I'm expecting too much, the utility would have to list your name? Meaning if you're renting/subletting a room, or sharing a house and utilities are under one person (both something a younger/college person to be), then you're probably shit out of luck? Same with married people who just do it under one person for simplicity's sake?

    Or if you use a PO Box. I’ve ran into that and the utilities not being in my name a few times when just trying to get an ID. My Ex and I used to split finances by her handling the utilities and me handling rent. Was an issue the first couple times I needed an ID until we started throwing mine in the bill too just for that situation.

    Basically ID laws are trash.

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  • Martini_PhilosopherMartini_Philosopher Registered User regular
    All those files the GOP had created to lead their national gerrymandering effort have been put online thanks to Stephanie Hofeller at the site, The Hofeller Files.

    From NPR:
    NPR wrote:
    Her decision to put the files online herself is just the latest twist in a series of one astonishing event after another.
    It had been more than four years since Stephanie had spoken to her father after a family dispute involving the custody of her children landed in court. But on the last day of September in 2018, she "had a hunch that maybe something was wrong," according to her testimony for a lawsuit deposition.
    After his death in 2018, Thomas Hofeller's daughter found hard drives filled with the GOP redistricting strategist's files. Among them was a study in which he concluded that adding a citizenship question to census forms would be "advantageous to Republicans and Non-Hispanic Whites."
    Sitting in her car parked outside a convenience store in Kentucky, she used her phone to search online for her father's name and found an obituary for Thomas Hofeller, confirming that he had died at the age of 75 more than a month earlier in August.
    Stephanie then reconnected with her mother, Kathleen, and visited her parents' apartment in North Carolina, where she found four external hard drives and a clear plastic bag containing 18 USB thumb drives in her father's room. Stephanie says her mother encouraged her to take the devices.

    All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
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  • MillMill Registered User regular
    I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm wonder how much of that shit being made public will result in a ton of sit the gop did being thrown out. IIRC his shitty gerrymander suggestions ultimately did fall back on what would screw over non-whites, thus being racist as fuck. I seriously doubt he came up with much that didn't ultimately rely on screwing people based on race. I'll have to check, but IIRC racism was the bridge to far for the current court on the GOP's plans to rig the system. As shitty as Roberts is, I doubt he'll have much interest in saving anything that is reliant on racism. Dude seems to value his legacy and seems smart enough to realize that the US won't be a white-ethnostate in the future. So backing anything that is clearly racist to cement GOP power, is probably the surest way to ensure that his legacy gets shat upon all the damn time.

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