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[Torment: Tides of Numenara] Are you the Fallen Star? Out now! HYYYYYYYPE

135

Posts

  • 3clipse3clipse I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Frei wrote: »
    How heavy is this game on combat? I know the original was less focused on that, so is this the same? Could someone give me a quick rundown of combat?

    Combat is pretty much the same as the Shadowrun games from Harebrained Schemes, if you've played them, but with Action and Move instead of AP, and each turn takes forever for no apparent reason. You can avoid basically all of the combat in the game though.

    YaYa wrote: »
    FUCK YEAH LET'S FIGHT THE MOON
  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    3clipse wrote: »
    Finished the game. Thoughts:
    Meeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhh, unfortunately. Once you leave Sagus Cliffs quality takes a real downturn. Valley of the Dead Heroes and the Necropolis are decent enough, but Miel Avest feels so rushed and had a lot more potential for exploration and lore, and the Bloom is just all over the place. There's decent enough writing in there, but it's very scatterbrained, and then suddenly the game is kind of just over...? You get several major revelations and plot thread resolutions in like, an hour or two, and then the game just ends, with frankly no truly satisfying resolution possible.

    I dunno. Sagus Cliffs felt so coherent and polished, and it feels like they really rushed the rest of it. And it was short too! I finished all of the content in the game (bar like, 2 side quests that I messed up) and read every piece of dialogue I could find and used all the merecasters I found and clocked in at 25 hours. Didn't really live up to the hype, unfortunately.
    I thought the ending was great. Maybe not the specific resolution in the very last decision - though really, I found those options as satisfying as TNO's options at the very end of PST - but the way everything suddenly started knitting together was amazing. I was already suspecting that the Spectre was the Changing God, but the way it turns out that everything happening all over/through the game turned out to be entirely tied to the Changing God was awesome. Even the recollections at the very very beginning of the game hint at revelations later in the game - it's Mazzof with you stealing the item, it's the First Castoff with you building the sanctuary, it's Miika with you fighting the Tabaht. At first, I thought the dropping in of the daughter was a bit hamfisted, like in Fallout 4, but then when I thought about it some more, I realised at how much it had been hinted at throughout the game and I was like :surprised: .

    It also made doing the merecasters really interesting as I started thinking about how what I did in them would affect my future game; that being said, I couldn't confirm a lot of them, so if it turns out that the merecasters don't really affect future options, that would suck more.

    Though, the Sorrow, ultimately, turned out a pretty bad antagonist, imo. Very Reaper-y bullshit.

    I agree that Miel Avest was super-underwhelming. I'd figure a castoff sanctuary would abound with interesting castoffs and quests and shit, but there were only like 5 and nothing to do there other than just trigger its destruction. Sucked. Similarly, I get the sense that the labyrinth was supposed to be much bigger and more interactive, but ultimately it felt sort of empty and a lost opportunity.

    I did, however, like the Bloom. I wish we got some more to do with determining its ultimate fate and the fate of the people in it, but what was there, I really liked. Dealing with the navigational cortex and Rhin's quest were major highlights, but overall the Bloom just didn't quite feel finished, like how your interaction with Dracogen just sorta stops despite all these deep lore hints at his importance or not being able to influence Little Nihlien's future. The epilogue for the Bloom suggests to me there was supposed to be something along those lines, but maybe they just ran out of time. It's also somewhat emptier than I'd like; I haven't done it, but I bet if you counted up the interactive NPCs in Sagus versus Bloom, Sagus would come out far ahead.

    Edit: Actually, now that I think about it some more, the Bloom really suffered from not having any NPCs I really empathized with much. I loved Avina and the siblings, Crooked Qeek, Jewhateverkidfromthepast. I guess that's because the Bloom is supposed to be a terrible places full of terrible people, but I did feel much less attached to the Bloom than to Sagus.

    Double-edit: Wait. Actually, I liked the Speaker crystal. It wasn't in the Bloom, per se, but you know.

    Personally, it took me 39 hours to finish. And I still didn't get all the merecasters, which deeply annoys me. And watching streams/reading Reddit, there were still things I missed (though, so far, mostly in Sagus because that's where most players are still).

    hippofant on
  • 3clipse3clipse I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    Finished the game. Thoughts:
    Meeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhh, unfortunately. Once you leave Sagus Cliffs quality takes a real downturn. Valley of the Dead Heroes and the Necropolis are decent enough, but Miel Avest feels so rushed and had a lot more potential for exploration and lore, and the Bloom is just all over the place. There's decent enough writing in there, but it's very scatterbrained, and then suddenly the game is kind of just over...? You get several major revelations and plot thread resolutions in like, an hour or two, and then the game just ends, with frankly no truly satisfying resolution possible.

    I dunno. Sagus Cliffs felt so coherent and polished, and it feels like they really rushed the rest of it. And it was short too! I finished all of the content in the game (bar like, 2 side quests that I messed up) and read every piece of dialogue I could find and used all the merecasters I found and clocked in at 25 hours. Didn't really live up to the hype, unfortunately.
    I thought the ending was great. Maybe not the specific resolution in the very last decision - though really, I found those options as satisfying as TNO's options at the very end of PST - but the way everything suddenly started knitting together was amazing. I was already suspecting that the Spectre was the Changing God, but the way it turns out that everything happening all over/through the game turned out to be entirely tied to the Changing God was awesome. Even the recollections at the very very beginning of the game hint at revelations later in the game - it's Mazzof with you stealing the item, it's the First Castoff with you building the sanctuary, it's Miika with you fighting the Tabaht. At first, I thought the dropping in of the daughter was a bit hamfisted, like in Fallout 4, but then when I thought about it some more, I realised at how much it had been hinted at throughout the game and I was like :surprised: .

    It also made doing the merecasters really interesting as I started thinking about how what I did in them would affect my future game; that being said, I couldn't confirm a lot of them, so if it turns out that the merecasters don't really affect future options, that would suck more.

    Though, the Sorrow, ultimately, turned out a pretty bad antagonist, imo. Very Reaper-y bullshit.

    I agree that Miel Avest was super-underwhelming. I'd figure a castoff sanctuary would abound with interesting castoffs and quests and shit, but there were only like 5 and nothing to do there other than just trigger its destruction. Sucked. Similarly, I get the sense that the labyrinth was supposed to be much bigger and more interactive, but ultimately it felt sort of empty and a lost opportunity.

    I did, however, like the Bloom. I wish we got some more to do with determining its ultimate fate and the fate of the people in it, but what was there, I really liked. Dealing with the navigational cortex and Rhin's quest were major highlights, but overall the Bloom just didn't quite feel finished, like how your interaction with Dracogen just sorta stops despite all these deep lore hints at his importance or not being able to influence Little Nihlien's future. The epilogue for the Bloom suggests to me there was supposed to be something along those lines, but maybe they just ran out of time. It's also somewhat emptier than I'd like; I haven't done it, but I bet if you counted up the interactive NPCs in Sagus versus Bloom, Sagus would come out far ahead.

    Edit: Actually, now that I think about it some more, the Bloom really suffered from not having any NPCs I really empathized with much. I loved Avina and the siblings, Crooked Qeek, Jewhateverkidfromthepast. I guess that's because the Bloom is supposed to be a terrible places full of terrible people, but I did feel much less attached to the Bloom than to Sagus.

    Double-edit: Wait. Actually, I liked the Speaker crystal. It wasn't in the Bloom, per se, but you know.

    Personally, it took me 39 hours to finish. And I still didn't get all the merecasters, which deeply annoys me. And watching streams/reading Reddit, there were still things I missed (though, so far, mostly in Sagus because that's where most players are still).
    I guess I just feel like the end wrapped up ALL of the different narrative threads and mysteries in like an hour of gameplay. It felt extremely rushed, like we were getting a reveal every 10 minutes. This one might just be me, but I always hate when media ends with a gigantic narrative dump of all the plot threads in the last 5-10%. I disagree about the daughter, even with a couple hints in there it was very hamfisted and shoved in at the end I felt. I also didn't like how once you learn about the First Castoff, the Changing God goes from an ambiguous, how-do-you-feel-about-him sort of thing to "HE'S DA BAD GUY."

    Yeah the Sorrow was just some Reapers shit. "I am actually a safeguard" oh okay yeah sure, cool story bro.

    I think the Bloom bothered me just because it felt like 6 or 7 separate stories going on that were a little too conveniently intertwined. Sagus Cliffs didn't feel that way, by contrast. And yes, the resolution with Dracogen was weird. "Okay we're done now" after like everyone else goes DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH THAT GUY. Also wish we had learned like...anything at all about the Bloom? The Bloom was just kind of there, we didn't affect it or find out why it's there or what it's doing. Really wish there had been more material on it.

    Oh yeah that was the other thing - why was the Ascension like 20 minutes long?! That place had some cool lore associated with it and some neat stuff going on, then it's just like a little side quest with a couple NPCs you can interact with and an extremely obvious I WAS THE BAD GUY ALL ALONG.

    I dunno. It just felt rushed once you got out of Sagus Cliffs. There were fewer NPCs, less stuff to do, and the pacing felt very off to me.

    YaYa wrote: »
    FUCK YEAH LET'S FIGHT THE MOON
  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    3clipse wrote: »
    I guess I just feel like the end wrapped up ALL of the different narrative threads and mysteries in like an hour of gameplay. It felt extremely rushed, like we were getting a reveal every 10 minutes. This one might just be me, but I always hate when media ends with a gigantic narrative dump of all the plot threads in the last 5-10%. I disagree about the daughter, even with a couple hints in there it was very hamfisted and shoved in at the end I felt. I also didn't like how once you learn about the First Castoff, the Changing God goes from an ambiguous, how-do-you-feel-about-him sort of thing to "HE'S DA BAD GUY."

    Yeah the Sorrow was just some Reapers shit. "I am actually a safeguard" oh okay yeah sure, cool story bro.

    I think the Bloom bothered me just because it felt like 6 or 7 separate stories going on that were a little too conveniently intertwined. Sagus Cliffs didn't feel that way, by contrast. And yes, the resolution with Dracogen was weird. "Okay we're done now" after like everyone else goes DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH THAT GUY. Also wish we had learned like...anything at all about the Bloom? The Bloom was just kind of there, we didn't affect it or find out why it's there or what it's doing. Really wish there had been more material on it.

    Oh yeah that was the other thing - why was the Ascension like 20 minutes long?! That place had some cool lore associated with it and some neat stuff going on, then it's just like a little side quest with a couple NPCs you can interact with and an extremely obvious I WAS THE BAD GUY ALL ALONG.

    I dunno. It just felt rushed once you got out of Sagus Cliffs. There were fewer NPCs, less stuff to do, and the pacing felt very off to me.

    More ending discussion:
    I agree it was a bit of a narrative dump, but I was okay with it, because it made me reconsider everything I'd experienced in the game so far. And the way it was often done, through the meres, made it cooler. A lot of the meres made me sit back and go, "Whoaaaaa," and then I would reload to try doing them again a different way.

    You are right about how the Changing God just became DA BAD GUY. But I kinda expected that. I expected the First to turn out to be a BAD GUY too, and she kinda did. CG probably could have had a more defensible narrative too, but they didn't really explore it, other than just dropping, "But he did it for his daughter!" in.

    Yep, you're right about the Bloom. And the Ascension. What was there was good, imo, and it just didn't seem finished/fully rounded out. I ran around looking for where the phobit I released from the machines went, but nothing seemed to come of it, for example :sad:

    That being said, I'm not sure it was that different than PST in this regard. I recently played through PST all over again, and I felt that it had a bunch of narrative problems that we probably overlooked when it came out because it was 1992 or whatever. PST's story does seem increasingly rushed as you play along, and the OG TNO does turn out increasingly assholish as you go along too. Returning from Curst to Sigil and just.. having nothing to do there was super-disappointing, after an experience through the hells/outer planes that was already kinda underwhelming.

    hippofant on
  • YougottawannaYougottawanna Registered User regular
    Ending thoughts:
    I didn't mind the lore dump, but I have a high tolerance for lore dumps. I do agree that the Sorrow ended up a bit disappointing. I think they should have kept it mysterious - you can sever the connection, or defeat it (temporarily or permanently) somehow, but not have him talk to you and give you a semi-canned choice.

    However, I personally liked the Bloom. It wasn't as dense with content as Sagus Cliffs, but it was still fun to play. (And honestly, what area in the history of RPGs IS as dense with content as Sagus Cliffs?).

    I want to try a playthrough as a Jack now, and I'll probably be an asshole. The game system grew on me. I like how combat and non-combat stuff is resolved using the same framework. In fact I think they could have done more with it. There were only a few non-combat crises, but I enjoyed all of them.

    It usually takes me a while to decide exactly what I think of a game like this, but after one playthrough I'd say my opinion is positive. Also, it's something new, and when a game does something new I'm willing to forgive it quite a bit.

    Merecaster question:
    I went through several merecasters where I didn't get anything at the end. Does this mean I made a mistake somewhere, or do some just not have rewards?

    Companions question:
    How many are there? I went with Matkina, Rhin, and Erritus for most of my playthrough, left behind Callistege and Aligern, didn't recruit the guy next to the airship in the Caravanserai (is he a companion?) and I think I passed on another companion somewhere along the line.

  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    Ending thoughts:
    Merecaster question:
    I went through several merecasters where I didn't get anything at the end. Does this mean I made a mistake somewhere, or do some just not have rewards?

    Companions question:
    How many are there? I went with Matkina, Rhin, and Erritus for most of my playthrough, left behind Callistege and Aligern, didn't recruit the guy next to the airship in the Caravanserai (is he a companion?) and I think I passed on another companion somewhere along the line.

    Ending thoughts:
    Yeah. I liked the Bloom. It just didn't quite come together at the end. For example, with the annulet with me, not cutting open the maws, not using the Tides on the Bloom, and having high int, I still only got that much information about the Bloom, what it was and how it worked, but nothing more. Was pretty disappointed... can't imagine how much less you get if you don't do all that, but...

    Hell, best I can tell, the epilogue for the Bloom only depends on what happens to Matkina. (Though, again, maybe there are epilogues I couldn't access even by reloading before the final encounter.) There weren't even many epilogues for Bloom NPCs, compared to Sagus NPCs.

    Merecasters:
    Same. I suspect some of them are just for flavour. In particular, there was one where you go do the whale assassination, and I can't imagine how that ties into the rest of the game, especially since you don't get that merecaster until after Sagus. But maybe it does? Who knows. Also, the treasure hunting mere and the oasis mere didn't seem to do anything, though the oasis mere did shed a little more light on Mazzof.

    There are a bunch of merecasters where you get pertinent game information though. Again, whether that has an actual effect on gameplay or not, I dunno. I'd have to play the game again and NOT get the information, and then play through the end to find out...

    Companions:
    6. The guy is not next to the airship in Caravanaserai; he's in the Cliffs.

    hippofant on
  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    hello I just started and here are some impressions of the first 30 minutes of gameplay, most of which was character creation
    Part 1: Falling. I mean, I guess it could be worse. I could either be a whale, or a bowl of petunias. I am actually quite surprised that I am not a bowl of petunias, this time. Hello again, ground.

    Part 2: in which I take a personality test

    > what if I don't WANT to move the bowl?
    > deliberately fail Move Bowl check just to see what happens
    > bowl moves anyway I guess but I bleed. Do I bleed if I don't fail? hmm.
    > what do you mean I can't just flip the bowl over what if I WANT to flip the bowl over
    > Yes I'm sure none of these doors will become relevant later on.

    Game be like: you're a Clever Jack! Which... ironically means I'm quite stupid when it comes to two knowledge skills that I suspect are kind of important? How does that mean I'm clever? I guess it's Han Solo clever, like, I just bullshit my way through? Sorry game but on my first playthrough I want to be like my Nameless One, which means I want to be a Wizard, I mean, Nano, because mind reading. At first I'm like, let's be Charming but apparently being Charming ALSO makes you stupid, so, instead, I'm ... whichever is the one which means you have shit HP but you're good at Persuasion and a skill which I suspect is Pickpocket / Lockpicking. Because I'm a Wizard and a Talk My Way Out of This, I don't need no stinking HP.

    The Specter/Shade/whatever his name is: I suspect you. I don't know why I Suspect you but I do. I don't trust you at all, Person In My Brain who I am Sure is Feigning Ignorance. You be like, "Oh noez kill your alternate personalities!" and I be like, surely there's another solution, and, I feel like there may well be but I don't know what it is yet. I bet you're working with the Sorrow, who I have re-named Sir Cancer-Squid.

    Part 3: I am on the ground. Neither of you is as charming as Morte. I want my talking skull back. I kind of hate you both, actually. I should have gone to the Cult of the Changing God but I didn't get the surface thought from That Guy that was like, "if she's not the changing god I wanna protect her" until AFTER I was like "Suuure these Truth Dudes sound okay?" and then I got the thought from Hologram Bubblegum that was like "oh boy I can't wait to experiment on her :V " Both of you suck. Neither of you is a talking skull, and, therefore, you're both lame.

    The Escape Goat: If there's anywhere that Occam's Razor fails to apply it's Elder Scrolls lore.
    Delduwath: Yeah, gotta use Mehrunes' Razor.
    Zilla360SutibunRiIoloElvenshaeDaffyddKristmas Kthulhu
  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    I'm really digging this game, but I'm really hating the actual character mechanics of it. The Effort system, specifically. In short, having to spend a resource that doesn't automatically replenish for a chance at success is really annoying to me. Especially since the system is save-scummable (as in, I have a 65% to Persuade someone; I fail; I reload; I try again at the same level of Effort and succeed) - this is especially puzzling to me, since this is more-or-less the same team of people who made it so learning a spell from a scroll in Planescape: Torment was unfailable (even though the official 2nd Ed AD&D rules have a failure percentage based on Intelligence). My understanding was that this was done precisely because they recognized that people would save-scum it, and thought to just save everyone the trouble.

    I think I would have preferred something like: Spend N Effort to succeed. In some scenarios where it might be interesting: Spend N Effort to achieve mild success; spend N+X to achieve overwhelming success.

    Now, one might say: "Delduwath, just commit max Effort to a task, hit 100%, and that's basically the same thing as you're suggesting". Well, in some cases, yeah, that's true. But, I can't hit 100% on every single task. Further, if I do this, I'll only be able to succeed at a couple of tests before my pools are totally drained. That doesn't sound fun to me.

    DerrickCorsini
  • 3clipse3clipse I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Delduwath wrote: »
    I'm really digging this game, but I'm really hating the actual character mechanics of it. The Effort system, specifically. In short, having to spend a resource that doesn't automatically replenish for a chance at success is really annoying to me. Especially since the system is save-scummable (as in, I have a 65% to Persuade someone; I fail; I reload; I try again at the same level of Effort and succeed) - this is especially puzzling to me, since this is more-or-less the same team of people who made it so learning a spell from a scroll in Planescape: Torment was unfailable (even though the official 2nd Ed AD&D rules have a failure percentage based on Intelligence). My understanding was that this was done precisely because they recognized that people would save-scum it, and thought to just save everyone the trouble.

    I think I would have preferred something like: Spend N Effort to succeed. In some scenarios where it might be interesting: Spend N Effort to achieve mild success; spend N+X to achieve overwhelming success.

    Now, one might say: "Delduwath, just commit max Effort to a task, hit 100%, and that's basically the same thing as you're suggesting". Well, in some cases, yeah, that's true. But, I can't hit 100% on every single task. Further, if I do this, I'll only be able to succeed at a couple of tests before my pools are totally drained. That doesn't sound fun to me.

    You'll find it especially stupid once you hit Tier 3 or 4 and have a bunch of Edge + huge stat pools and never rest or use stat regen items ever again.

    YaYa wrote: »
    FUCK YEAH LET'S FIGHT THE MOON
    Moridin889
  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    I guess it's good that there's a silly mechanic that balances out a frustrating mechanic.

    Basil
  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    I will say, though: I appreciate that it lets me just swap in other party members - who are actually good at things like, say, Persuasion - to make those tests. I think that's a much better system than the typical RPG approach, where only the player character really gets to play around with the conversation system.

    Basil3clipseElvenshaeCorsini
  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    Delduwath wrote: »
    I'm really digging this game, but I'm really hating the actual character mechanics of it. The Effort system, specifically. In short, having to spend a resource that doesn't automatically replenish for a chance at success is really annoying to me. Especially since the system is save-scummable (as in, I have a 65% to Persuade someone; I fail; I reload; I try again at the same level of Effort and succeed) - this is especially puzzling to me, since this is more-or-less the same team of people who made it so learning a spell from a scroll in Planescape: Torment was unfailable (even though the official 2nd Ed AD&D rules have a failure percentage based on Intelligence). My understanding was that this was done precisely because they recognized that people would save-scum it, and thought to just save everyone the trouble.

    I think I would have preferred something like: Spend N Effort to succeed. In some scenarios where it might be interesting: Spend N Effort to achieve mild success; spend N+X to achieve overwhelming success.

    Now, one might say: "Delduwath, just commit max Effort to a task, hit 100%, and that's basically the same thing as you're suggesting". Well, in some cases, yeah, that's true. But, I can't hit 100% on every single task. Further, if I do this, I'll only be able to succeed at a couple of tests before my pools are totally drained. That doesn't sound fun to me.

    Ironically my reaction was completely the opposite. I think the game is at it's most fun in Sagus Cliffs when Effort is a finite resource, resting can and does have negative consequences, and you are encouraged to use your resources as judiciously as possible to accomplish your ends.

    In the mid to late game you have a bunch of Edge on everyone and just hit 90-100% on everything nigh automatically and it's kinda whatever.

    Soul Silver FC: 1935 3141 6240
    White FC: 0819 3350 1787
    3clipse
  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    Delduwath wrote: »
    I'm really digging this game, but I'm really hating the actual character mechanics of it. The Effort system, specifically. In short, having to spend a resource that doesn't automatically replenish for a chance at success is really annoying to me. Especially since the system is save-scummable (as in, I have a 65% to Persuade someone; I fail; I reload; I try again at the same level of Effort and succeed) - this is especially puzzling to me, since this is more-or-less the same team of people who made it so learning a spell from a scroll in Planescape: Torment was unfailable (even though the official 2nd Ed AD&D rules have a failure percentage based on Intelligence). My understanding was that this was done precisely because they recognized that people would save-scum it, and thought to just save everyone the trouble.

    I think I would have preferred something like: Spend N Effort to succeed. In some scenarios where it might be interesting: Spend N Effort to achieve mild success; spend N+X to achieve overwhelming success.

    Now, one might say: "Delduwath, just commit max Effort to a task, hit 100%, and that's basically the same thing as you're suggesting". Well, in some cases, yeah, that's true. But, I can't hit 100% on every single task. Further, if I do this, I'll only be able to succeed at a couple of tests before my pools are totally drained. That doesn't sound fun to me.

    Ironically my reaction was completely the opposite. I think the game is at it's most fun in Sagus Cliffs when Effort is a finite resource, resting can and does have negative consequences, and you are encouraged to use your resources as judiciously as possible to accomplish your ends.

    In the mid to late game you have a bunch of Edge on everyone and just hit 90-100% on everything nigh automatically and it's kinda whatever.

    If we're talking about the difference between:
    A) Need to make decisions, choices have consequences.
    and
    B) Can succeed at every task, no need to choose because can do everything.
    then I agree with you: (A) is better and more fun.

    I just don't like the idea that I'm spending finite resources at a chance of success.

    This was mainly triggered by a combat crisis I fell into - the first I've actually gotten into, because I talked my way past two other fights. It was the one with
    the Adversary in The Fifth Eye
    . I had to choose between making one or two almost-sure-to-hit attacks or several low-chance attacks before I'd run out of Pool. I opted for the second choice, and missed every time. So I ran out of Pool and made absolutely no difference in the fight. It felt Super Bad, and made me think about the system as a whole. I'd been pretty much succeeding all my Intellect tests (because I made my character a super-nerd), so I hadn't really thought about what failure would look like. So, yeah, I'm annoyed by the system. It becomes more obvious in combat, where you have to make multiple tests in rapid succession, and the "interesting consequence for failure" is you get dead. During the normal, conversation-based gameplay, theses tests are spread out, less frequent, and can be spread across multiple characters, so you can mitigate failures in various ways.

  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    im looking to grab this when it goes down in price, but does it have like an easy mode for combat sections? Cos im terrible at these kind of strategy games like divinity original sin etc.

  • Moridin889Moridin889 Registered User regular
    Prohass wrote: »
    im looking to grab this when it goes down in price, but does it have like an easy mode for combat sections? Cos im terrible at these kind of strategy games like divinity original sin etc.

    I've only encountered one spot where you can't talk/non combat action your way out

  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    edited March 2017
    Aligern is just kind of an asshole. I took him along a few times because I wanted to know plot stuff but now I'm like, okay, Grumpy McManpain, you've manpained so hard that I no longer give a fuck about you.

    *edit* Also, it's 3 in the morning. That hasn't happened to me with a game in a very long time. This game is Good. I really liked the alien who wanted to tell me all about procreation.

    Lucid_Seraph on
    The Escape Goat: If there's anywhere that Occam's Razor fails to apply it's Elder Scrolls lore.
    Delduwath: Yeah, gotta use Mehrunes' Razor.
    Elvenshae
  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    Delduwath wrote: »
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    Delduwath wrote: »
    I'm really digging this game, but I'm really hating the actual character mechanics of it. The Effort system, specifically. In short, having to spend a resource that doesn't automatically replenish for a chance at success is really annoying to me. Especially since the system is save-scummable (as in, I have a 65% to Persuade someone; I fail; I reload; I try again at the same level of Effort and succeed) - this is especially puzzling to me, since this is more-or-less the same team of people who made it so learning a spell from a scroll in Planescape: Torment was unfailable (even though the official 2nd Ed AD&D rules have a failure percentage based on Intelligence). My understanding was that this was done precisely because they recognized that people would save-scum it, and thought to just save everyone the trouble.

    I think I would have preferred something like: Spend N Effort to succeed. In some scenarios where it might be interesting: Spend N Effort to achieve mild success; spend N+X to achieve overwhelming success.

    Now, one might say: "Delduwath, just commit max Effort to a task, hit 100%, and that's basically the same thing as you're suggesting". Well, in some cases, yeah, that's true. But, I can't hit 100% on every single task. Further, if I do this, I'll only be able to succeed at a couple of tests before my pools are totally drained. That doesn't sound fun to me.

    Ironically my reaction was completely the opposite. I think the game is at it's most fun in Sagus Cliffs when Effort is a finite resource, resting can and does have negative consequences, and you are encouraged to use your resources as judiciously as possible to accomplish your ends.

    In the mid to late game you have a bunch of Edge on everyone and just hit 90-100% on everything nigh automatically and it's kinda whatever.

    If we're talking about the difference between:
    A) Need to make decisions, choices have consequences.
    and
    B) Can succeed at every task, no need to choose because can do everything.
    then I agree with you: (A) is better and more fun.

    I just don't like the idea that I'm spending finite resources at a chance of success.

    This was mainly triggered by a combat crisis I fell into - the first I've actually gotten into, because I talked my way past two other fights. It was the one with
    the Adversary in The Fifth Eye
    . I had to choose between making one or two almost-sure-to-hit attacks or several low-chance attacks before I'd run out of Pool. I opted for the second choice, and missed every time. So I ran out of Pool and made absolutely no difference in the fight. It felt Super Bad, and made me think about the system as a whole. I'd been pretty much succeeding all my Intellect tests (because I made my character a super-nerd), so I hadn't really thought about what failure would look like. So, yeah, I'm annoyed by the system. It becomes more obvious in combat, where you have to make multiple tests in rapid succession, and the "interesting consequence for failure" is you get dead. During the normal, conversation-based gameplay, theses tests are spread out, less frequent, and can be spread across multiple characters, so you can mitigate failures in various ways.

    Expending finite resources at a chance of success is a risk/reward formula you're supposed to weigh. You can spend enough Effort to assure success, but that means possibly not having enough in the long term if you're trying to minimize resting.

    Couple that with the fact that failure can and does lead to other avenues, I'd say it's a feature not a bug. Hell I don't even see combat making those decisions more punishing as a bad thing either.

    Soul Silver FC: 1935 3141 6240
    White FC: 0819 3350 1787
    Elvenshae
  • vap1dvap1d Registered User regular
    I died in the Slave Girl quest in combat after having killed the main Slaver... even though she left me a note after I woke up. Now I have no idea where Rhin is. Did I screw myself out of learning Tidal Surge?

  • firewaterwordfirewaterword Satchitananda Pais Vasco to San FranciscoRegistered User regular
    Quick question: I made it out of Sagus Cliffs before Horizon Zero Dawn took over my life, but I'm wondering if the companions I left behind are gone for good. I have Rhin, blurry lady, and airship thief guy (I think) and I wanted to park Rhin somewhere because fuck she's useless, but couldn't stomach telling her to get lost before leaving.

    Lokah Samastah Sukhino Bhavantu
  • captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    You need the Bronze sphere.

    3clipse
  • 3clipse3clipse I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Quick question: I made it out of Sagus Cliffs before Horizon Zero Dawn took over my life, but I'm wondering if the companions I left behind are gone for good. I have Rhin, blurry lady, and airship thief guy (I think) and I wanted to park Rhin somewhere because fuck she's useless, but couldn't stomach telling her to get lost before leaving.

    Rhin becomes super useful at Tier 3.

    YaYa wrote: »
    FUCK YEAH LET'S FIGHT THE MOON
  • DashuiDashui Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    3clipse wrote: »
    Quick question: I made it out of Sagus Cliffs before Horizon Zero Dawn took over my life, but I'm wondering if the companions I left behind are gone for good. I have Rhin, blurry lady, and airship thief guy (I think) and I wanted to park Rhin somewhere because fuck she's useless, but couldn't stomach telling her to get lost before leaving.

    Rhin becomes super useful at Tier 3.

    Her quest resolution is amazing, too. Keep her, keep her, keep her!

    Dashui on
    Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    You can't ever park Rhin anyways.

    vap1d wrote: »
    I died in the Slave Girl quest in combat after having killed the main Slaver... even though she left me a note after I woke up. Now I have no idea where Rhin is. Did I screw myself out of learning Tidal Surge?

    Possibly? But just temporarily.

  • chrono_travellerchrono_traveller Registered User regular
    One True Love sidequest question:
    I just convinced the guy Omahdo(sp?) to not keep chasing after Presia(sp?), but my logbook hasn't updated with anything. I still just have two entries, one about the tempralscope things saying I saw where she went and that I should go to Omahdo with the info (which I can't now that I convinced him to leave), and one about the woman at the Hostel saying I knew she stayed there. The woman won't tell me where Presia went. Is there something else I can do, or have I broke the quest?

    The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett

    George R. R. Martin is not your bitch. ~ Neil Gaiman
  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    The Escape Goat: If there's anywhere that Occam's Razor fails to apply it's Elder Scrolls lore.
    Delduwath: Yeah, gotta use Mehrunes' Razor.
  • 3clipse3clipse I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    One True Love sidequest question:
    I just convinced the guy Omahdo(sp?) to not keep chasing after Presia(sp?), but my logbook hasn't updated with anything. I still just have two entries, one about the tempralscope things saying I saw where she went and that I should go to Omahdo with the info (which I can't now that I convinced him to leave), and one about the woman at the Hostel saying I knew she stayed there. The woman won't tell me where Presia went. Is there something else I can do, or have I broke the quest?

    Did you talk to the woman at the inn?

    YaYa wrote: »
    FUCK YEAH LET'S FIGHT THE MOON
  • chrono_travellerchrono_traveller Registered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    One True Love sidequest question:
    I just convinced the guy Omahdo(sp?) to not keep chasing after Presia(sp?), but my logbook hasn't updated with anything. I still just have two entries, one about the tempralscope things saying I saw where she went and that I should go to Omahdo with the info (which I can't now that I convinced him to leave), and one about the woman at the Hostel saying I knew she stayed there. The woman won't tell me where Presia went. Is there something else I can do, or have I broke the quest?

    Did you talk to the woman at the inn?

    Yes.
    She gave me the option to dissuade Omahdo from pursuing the woman, and I'm pretty sure I went back to her afterwards, and asked her for where the woman really went, and she said "The less people know, the better."

    The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett

    George R. R. Martin is not your bitch. ~ Neil Gaiman
  • 3clipse3clipse I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Sounds like a bug. Quests do get stuck in weird states sometimes if you simultaneously satisfy multiple potential but separate victory conditions

    YaYa wrote: »
    FUCK YEAH LET'S FIGHT THE MOON
  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    Ughhhhhh

    Miel Avest spoilers. My game keeps crashing.
    This sanctuary attack battle is awful. It feels like trying to "solve" the fight AND get the Kalidoscopic Merecaster AND save at least a few named NPCs is fucking impossible. I finally got to a point where I felt like I could potentially "solve" the fight, and then the game fucking froze. The Sorrow herself causes MASSIVE chug with the system -- I wish there was some way to turn off her animations and her sprite entirely. I don't need to see her, I can't fight her anyway, it's not important, and her VERY FUCKING PRESENCE freezes the game.

    My rig is no slouch -- I have an NVidia 750Ti, 12 gigs of RAM... it's this game is poorly optimized for A Really Tall Thingy With A Fuckton of Particle Effects.

    Some story-related spoilers at this point --
    Yeah I fucking knew the Spectre was a shady bastard. he's like WELL SEE HOW IT IS WITHOUT ME and I'm like buddy, you've been FUCKING USELESS this entire time. The only things you ever said to me were "hurdurr I can't tell you anything :V" so good fucking riddance.

    I suspect that the Sorrow is the First, and that HER "solution" to the whole thing is ALSO to kill off all the Castoffs, but to kill the Changing God too. Both of them are stupid bastards and causing me a ton of headaches and I hope they both die. Leave us alone and stop your stupid Endless War.

    The Escape Goat: If there's anywhere that Occam's Razor fails to apply it's Elder Scrolls lore.
    Delduwath: Yeah, gotta use Mehrunes' Razor.
  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    Ughhhhhh

    Miel Avest spoilers. My game keeps crashing.
    This sanctuary attack battle is awful. It feels like trying to "solve" the fight AND get the Kalidoscopic Merecaster AND save at least a few named NPCs is fucking impossible. I finally got to a point where I felt like I could potentially "solve" the fight, and then the game fucking froze. The Sorrow herself causes MASSIVE chug with the system -- I wish there was some way to turn off her animations and her sprite entirely. I don't need to see her, I can't fight her anyway, it's not important, and her VERY FUCKING PRESENCE freezes the game.

    My rig is no slouch -- I have an NVidia 750Ti, 12 gigs of RAM... it's this game is poorly optimized for A Really Tall Thingy With A Fuckton of Particle Effects.

    There is an AI bug that inXile have acknowledge and are trying to fix. No details or timeline though.

    Re. Miel Avest:
    The generators also dispel the sorrow fire, so it becomes unnecessary to smash the rocks. Send 2 companions forward activating generators, follow with your Castoff, while your last companion gets the two fighters (and tells them to run), as well as the merecaster on the left. When the castoff gets to the pyramid (or near it), you can send your companions BACK to pick up the other people you missed. Your castoff only needs 1 turn at the pyramid - your companions can be far away - to activate it using a tidal surge, and, IIRC, your companions can die and be fine when the pyramid goes off, as long as it's not the Sorrow that eats them (based on some reports).

    If you DON'T want to use a tidal surge on it, then I dunno how. But this is basically how I did it. (Though I actually just sent Matkina running forward to smash the central barrier. Used Rhin (+running) to pick up the fighters, and Callestige to teleport left over the barrier to activate that generator, get the merecaster, and rescue the deathcult guy.

    hippofant on
  • vap1dvap1d Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    You can't ever park Rhin anyways.

    vap1d wrote: »
    I died in the Slave Girl quest in combat after having killed the main Slaver... even though she left me a note after I woke up. Now I have no idea where Rhin is. Did I screw myself out of learning Tidal Surge?

    Possibly? But just temporarily.

    Where should I go to learn it? I'm afraid of encountering dialog options I can't use. :?

  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    vap1d wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    You can't ever park Rhin anyways.

    vap1d wrote: »
    I died in the Slave Girl quest in combat after having killed the main Slaver... even though she left me a note after I woke up. Now I have no idea where Rhin is. Did I screw myself out of learning Tidal Surge?

    Possibly? But just temporarily.

    Where should I go to learn it? I'm afraid of encountering dialog options I can't use. :?

    Game progress locked. Won't be available until later in the game.

    I suspect this was an intentional design decision to mess with players/provide unique player experiences/create replay value.

  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    Ughhhhhh

    Miel Avest spoilers. My game keeps crashing.
    This sanctuary attack battle is awful. It feels like trying to "solve" the fight AND get the Kalidoscopic Merecaster AND save at least a few named NPCs is fucking impossible. I finally got to a point where I felt like I could potentially "solve" the fight, and then the game fucking froze. The Sorrow herself causes MASSIVE chug with the system -- I wish there was some way to turn off her animations and her sprite entirely. I don't need to see her, I can't fight her anyway, it's not important, and her VERY FUCKING PRESENCE freezes the game.

    My rig is no slouch -- I have an NVidia 750Ti, 12 gigs of RAM... it's this game is poorly optimized for A Really Tall Thingy With A Fuckton of Particle Effects.

    There is an AI bug that inXile have acknowledge and are trying to fix. No details or timeline though.

    Re. Miel Avest:
    The generators also dispel the sorrow fire, so it becomes unnecessary to smash the rocks. Send 2 companions forward activating generators, follow with your Castoff, while your last companion gets the two fighters (and tells them to run), as well as the merecaster on the left. When the castoff gets to the pyramid (or near it), you can send your companions BACK to pick up the other people you missed. Your castoff only needs 1 turn at the pyramid - your companions can be far away - to activate it using a tidal surge, and, IIRC, your companions can die and be fine when the pyramid goes off, as long as it's not the Sorrow that eats them (based on some reports).

    If you DON'T want to use a tidal surge on it, then I dunno how. But this is basically how I did it. (Though I actually just sent Matkina running forward to smash the central barrier. Used Rhin (+running) to pick up the fighters, and Callestige to teleport left over the barrier to activate that generator, get the merecaster, and rescue the deathcult guy.

    Thanks dude.
    for the pyramid, it turns out that you have to blow 3 actions from 3 different companions AND the MC *has* to be the last one to touch it, so I reloaded (... again...) and just used the Tidal Surge.

    I am in the Bloom now. I have some questions. MAJOR spoilers ahead regarding Companions.
    NO guide I have found gives very good hints about the Companion quests :\ So, I am wondering: do Callistege and Matkina have quest things in the Bloom? If so, where are those?

    Does Aligern's questline continue at all after I talk to the guy in the Bloom who is like "Your tattoos ARE your family bruh!"

    Does Erritus' questline continue at all after I tell the voices in the head to lay off a bit?

    Does Tybir's questline continue at all after I'm like "Look, your ex-boyfriend DID make his own choices in the end, though yes, you fucked up p bad, my man."

    I really want to finish their stories as completely as possible on this playthrough.

    The Escape Goat: If there's anywhere that Occam's Razor fails to apply it's Elder Scrolls lore.
    Delduwath: Yeah, gotta use Mehrunes' Razor.
  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    Ughhhhhh

    Miel Avest spoilers. My game keeps crashing.
    This sanctuary attack battle is awful. It feels like trying to "solve" the fight AND get the Kalidoscopic Merecaster AND save at least a few named NPCs is fucking impossible. I finally got to a point where I felt like I could potentially "solve" the fight, and then the game fucking froze. The Sorrow herself causes MASSIVE chug with the system -- I wish there was some way to turn off her animations and her sprite entirely. I don't need to see her, I can't fight her anyway, it's not important, and her VERY FUCKING PRESENCE freezes the game.

    My rig is no slouch -- I have an NVidia 750Ti, 12 gigs of RAM... it's this game is poorly optimized for A Really Tall Thingy With A Fuckton of Particle Effects.

    There is an AI bug that inXile have acknowledge and are trying to fix. No details or timeline though.

    Re. Miel Avest:
    The generators also dispel the sorrow fire, so it becomes unnecessary to smash the rocks. Send 2 companions forward activating generators, follow with your Castoff, while your last companion gets the two fighters (and tells them to run), as well as the merecaster on the left. When the castoff gets to the pyramid (or near it), you can send your companions BACK to pick up the other people you missed. Your castoff only needs 1 turn at the pyramid - your companions can be far away - to activate it using a tidal surge, and, IIRC, your companions can die and be fine when the pyramid goes off, as long as it's not the Sorrow that eats them (based on some reports).

    If you DON'T want to use a tidal surge on it, then I dunno how. But this is basically how I did it. (Though I actually just sent Matkina running forward to smash the central barrier. Used Rhin (+running) to pick up the fighters, and Callestige to teleport left over the barrier to activate that generator, get the merecaster, and rescue the deathcult guy.

    Thanks dude.
    for the pyramid, it turns out that you have to blow 3 actions from 3 different companions AND the MC *has* to be the last one to touch it, so I reloaded (... again...) and just used the Tidal Surge.

    I am in the Bloom now. I have some questions. MAJOR spoilers ahead regarding Companions.
    NO guide I have found gives very good hints about the Companion quests :\ So, I am wondering: do Callistege and Matkina have quest things in the Bloom? If so, where are those?

    Does Aligern's questline continue at all after I talk to the guy in the Bloom who is like "Your tattoos ARE your family bruh!"

    Does Erritus' questline continue at all after I tell the voices in the head to lay off a bit?

    Does Tybir's questline continue at all after I'm like "Look, your ex-boyfriend DID make his own choices in the end, though yes, you fucked up p bad, my man."

    I really want to finish their stories as completely as possible on this playthrough.

    Miel Avest:
    You can just have the Last Castoff go alone and use a tidal surge on it, IIRC, to get it done in one.

    Companions:
    I believe you've reached the end for the three male companions.

    As for Callistege and Matkina, I ran them all game, but couldn't figure out where their companion quests were, if any. (I still managed to get both of Matkina's endings anyways.) In particular, I am unclear how to get Callistege to join the Datasphere. I gave her the book from the hidden base, but am unsure if I missed something somewhere that she needs or if it's a tidal/dialogue choice or what.

  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    Ughhhhhh

    Miel Avest spoilers. My game keeps crashing.
    This sanctuary attack battle is awful. It feels like trying to "solve" the fight AND get the Kalidoscopic Merecaster AND save at least a few named NPCs is fucking impossible. I finally got to a point where I felt like I could potentially "solve" the fight, and then the game fucking froze. The Sorrow herself causes MASSIVE chug with the system -- I wish there was some way to turn off her animations and her sprite entirely. I don't need to see her, I can't fight her anyway, it's not important, and her VERY FUCKING PRESENCE freezes the game.

    My rig is no slouch -- I have an NVidia 750Ti, 12 gigs of RAM... it's this game is poorly optimized for A Really Tall Thingy With A Fuckton of Particle Effects.

    There is an AI bug that inXile have acknowledge and are trying to fix. No details or timeline though.

    Re. Miel Avest:
    The generators also dispel the sorrow fire, so it becomes unnecessary to smash the rocks. Send 2 companions forward activating generators, follow with your Castoff, while your last companion gets the two fighters (and tells them to run), as well as the merecaster on the left. When the castoff gets to the pyramid (or near it), you can send your companions BACK to pick up the other people you missed. Your castoff only needs 1 turn at the pyramid - your companions can be far away - to activate it using a tidal surge, and, IIRC, your companions can die and be fine when the pyramid goes off, as long as it's not the Sorrow that eats them (based on some reports).

    If you DON'T want to use a tidal surge on it, then I dunno how. But this is basically how I did it. (Though I actually just sent Matkina running forward to smash the central barrier. Used Rhin (+running) to pick up the fighters, and Callestige to teleport left over the barrier to activate that generator, get the merecaster, and rescue the deathcult guy.

    Thanks dude.
    for the pyramid, it turns out that you have to blow 3 actions from 3 different companions AND the MC *has* to be the last one to touch it, so I reloaded (... again...) and just used the Tidal Surge.

    I am in the Bloom now. I have some questions. MAJOR spoilers ahead regarding Companions.
    NO guide I have found gives very good hints about the Companion quests :\ So, I am wondering: do Callistege and Matkina have quest things in the Bloom? If so, where are those?

    Does Aligern's questline continue at all after I talk to the guy in the Bloom who is like "Your tattoos ARE your family bruh!"

    Does Erritus' questline continue at all after I tell the voices in the head to lay off a bit?

    Does Tybir's questline continue at all after I'm like "Look, your ex-boyfriend DID make his own choices in the end, though yes, you fucked up p bad, my man."

    I really want to finish their stories as completely as possible on this playthrough.

    Miel Avest:
    You can just have the Last Castoff go alone and use a tidal surge on it, IIRC, to get it done in one.

    Companions:
    I believe you've reached the end for the three male companions.

    As for Callistege and Matkina, I ran them all game, but couldn't figure out where their companion quests were, if any. (I still managed to get both of Matkina's endings anyways.) In particular, I am unclear how to get Callistege to join the Datasphere. I gave her the book from the hidden base, but am unsure if I missed something somewhere that she needs or if it's a tidal/dialogue choice or what.
    I think you can get Callistege to join the Datasphere depending on dialog choice when you give her the book, OR if you actually don't bother getting the book, there may be a way to just let her hook up to it. I think I may still have an autosave wayyyy back there, so I might just load that and see what happens once I beat the game.

    I have overdone it on this game. :( I have severe depression and ADHD and this game went PLAY ME CONSTANTLY FOR FIVE DAYS STRAIGHT so I have. x_X I'll be done with it soon, luckily, but my advice is don't be me, don't speedrun this, also have a real job and don't contract major depressive disorder if you can help it (mine developed to outside influences beyond my control, though it's also probably my shitgarbage DNA from my fucked up family) (TL;DR -- oops)


    3clipse wrote: »
    and each turn takes forever for no apparent reason.

    /puts on "I used to work in videogame QA and I actively work in tabletop games hat, so I actually know what's going on here

    Combat takes forever for a few reasons in this game.

    1. The AI is really badly optimized for whatever reason. I'm not sure what they did to cause this, but the AI tends to "hang" a lot and take A LOOOONG time to make decisions.

    2. They didn't include an option for fast-forwarding turns, or an option for real-time combat (IIRC, Ps:T had a real-time/turn-based toggle, so you could speed things up? or it was real time until you brought up a menu? w/e I don't remember combat for this OR Baldur's Gate / NW Nights being this irritating). This is probably related to how badly optimized the AI is -- the AI may not be ABLE to fast-forward its decisions because it doesn't make its decisions in advance (why). I think PART of this may be related to how you can make dialogue decisions / interact with objects in combat, but there should nonetheless have been a way to fast-forward enemy turns / speed up their movement. Other games have done that, I think. So, EVERY SINGLE ENEMY has to make a decision, move, make any other decisions, and then move on to the next AI, and the AI also gets hung up on all kinds of random shit (terrain is a Problem).

    3. Graphics from combat encounters chug like crazy. I mentioned earlier that when the Sorrow actually shows up in full form, it is a crazy-ass SFX ball that destroys the game's capacity to handle it. My computer is not a slouch! While it's not some hyper-optimized gaming rig, it has a respectable 12 gigs of RAM and an NVidia GTX750Ti card. I expect this rig to chug on games like Obduction (which is basically a stress test for the Unreal engine disguised as a puzzle game), not on an isometric RPG.

    TL;DR -- AI is badly optimized, there is no fast-forward in combat, particle effects are also badly optimized AND they let the SFX artist go too ham (from a QA guy, NEVER let your SFX artist go full ham. Keep those fuckers on a tight leash or the game will be nothing but particle effects and bloom)

    The Escape Goat: If there's anywhere that Occam's Razor fails to apply it's Elder Scrolls lore.
    Delduwath: Yeah, gotta use Mehrunes' Razor.
  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    Sorry for double post.

    Beat the game. I am exhausted, that was probably the worst gaming marathon I've ever put myself through, but well-worth it. This is a very finely-crafted game. I will need to give it a rest before playing it ever, ever again. Don't try to beat a narrative-heavy game in three days, guys. You will be very sorry.

    I have some Thoughts.
    Ending choice: I tried three endings in total, because I'd reload when I was like "eeeh not right."

    First, I merged my consciousness with the original daughter. That felt... right, because she WAS a victim and deserved NONE of this shit, and I wanted her to live her life. But it erased Matkina, and I wanted HER to get HER ending, so I reloaded.

    Then I tried SORROW, THIS IS SOME REAPER BULLSHIT. YOU ARE NONSENSE. ALL OF THIS IS NONSENSE. and the game went "Welp now everyone in a 100 mile radius loses their goddamn minds and starts eating each other. Also, everyone hates you." That is also bullshit. :|

    Final choice: Just. Just put everything the fuck back. Delete the Labyrinth, let us get on with our lives. To me personally, this seemed like the "best" ending, because 1. the castoffs get to live out a semi-natural (well, whatever passes for "natural" in this universe) lifespan, 2. said castoffs can work for a better solution to the Tides problem than "A twenty foot tall angry tentacle lady who just murders the shit out of anyone she thinks is doing the bad" 3. I get to find out what happens to Matkina, dammit!

    More thoughts on The Sorrow later.

    I never did figure out how to get Callistege's ending; it may involve having her be a final party member when you go in so you can "free" her or whatever? Similarly, poor Tybir got a REALLY shitty ending, possibly because I didn't take him with me, which is deeply upsetting :( Tybir fucked up very bad in his life but he didn't deserve THAT.

    I sent Erritis back to being a farmer dude. He seemed pretty content with that.

    Rhin... I really really wish I'd grabbed Rhin FIRST. I only got her to T2 before she left, and I feel like if I'd run straight and grabbed her first thing, I could have gotten her all the way to 4. Oh well. Rhin is AMAZING when she returns, and I really want a spinoff game with her.


    The Sorrow is some serious bullshit. Like, lady. Why didn't you talk to literally any of us in the first place? If she'd just calmed down on the murder-spree and SPOKEN to Aadiriis, for instance, this could have fucking been sorted out.

    Like everything else Weird in Numenera, I suspect the Sorrow is cloud-based AI. It was obviously built to deal with problems occuring from these psychic "tides," which I'd wager are another side-effect of said cloud-based network -- everyone's psychic impressions affect everyone else. But it's not clear why the Tides inherently cause conflict... or why this is any worse than normal everyday interaction. By the Sorrow's definition, EVERYTHING causes torment, so why doesn't she just nuke the planet? And I can't believe that whoever built her didn't have a better solution to "it seems our cloud-based neural net that affects everyone has unintended mental side effects" than "Let's built a twenty foot tall doom demon that deletes anybody who causes major problems in our psychic network." Like, really? That's like saying "Well darn, I got some adware, I'd better WIPE MY FUCKING HARD DRIVE."

    Re: "The game really falls apart once you leave Sagus Cliffs," the same is true of the original Planescape: Torment. Everything outside Sigil is just... not very good or interesting. Like, can you even name any interesting NPCs in Curst, Baator, Carcerai, or the Outlands? Also, personally, I found a lot of PEOPLE I liked in the Bloom, but mostly I was like "Moving here was a really bad life decision for all of you :\ "

    I killed the death robot in there and gave its head to the Maw, which I think was good and right, and I hope it gets reborn as something nicer.

    The main dude being evil didn't come as a surprise for me at all; I assumed it from the start, partially because in PS:T, 90% of your prior incarnations were total jackasses (incl. the first one).

    I wish "no gender" was a choice you could make at character creation, but I guess part of the point is that this isn't really "your" body, somebody else made it, and that somebody was a huge self-centered dirtbag.

    Final tides were Blue dominant Gold secondary. I am predictable, because I like knowing all the things, and because my personal power fantasy is being able to save everyone and make their lives better, dammit. YOU WILL ALL BE HAPPY >|

    My BIGGEST question is: is there some kind of creation kit or whatever like there was for Baldur's Gate etc so you can make mods? I would deeply love to be able to create quests and scenarios of my own using this game engine, that'd be super fun. ... and to create a mod to fix the sluggish combat AI, and to create a "fast-forward" button for combat so I don't have to sit there like "Robot, please take your fucking turn."

    The Escape Goat: If there's anywhere that Occam's Razor fails to apply it's Elder Scrolls lore.
    Delduwath: Yeah, gotta use Mehrunes' Razor.
  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    I am not particularly hopeful for a modding tool. The various Unity Engine RPGs seem to be quite complex - observe all the errors that pop up in Torment and Pillars of Eternity game logs - and I suspect that their contracts with Unity itself might preclude such a release. Which is unfortunate, because people are STILL using NearInfinity to make BG2 mods.

  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    Why the FUCK do Glaives get Speed abilities, while Jacks get Might abilities? And why is none of this shit documented for character building purposes?!

    hippofant on
  • 3clipse3clipse I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    Why the FUCK do Glaives get Speed abilities, while Jacks get Might abilities? And why is none of this shit documented for character building purposes?!

    The actual answer is that so many of the checks in the game are int based, Nano > all.

    Game ain't balanced great for class utility.

    YaYa wrote: »
    FUCK YEAH LET'S FIGHT THE MOON
  • Moridin889Moridin889 Registered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    Why the FUCK do Glaives get Speed abilities, while Jacks get Might abilities? And why is none of this shit documented for character building purposes?!

    The actual answer is that so many of the checks in the game are int based, Nano > all.

    Game ain't balanced great for class utility.

    It's a Monte Cook game.

    Intelligence is always better than all, and there are purposefully laid character traps

    Elvenshae
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