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[Hollow Knight] Sequel: Silksong Announced

CantidoCantido Registered User regular
edited February 14 in Games and Technology
In wilds beyond they speak your name with reverence and regret
For none could tame our savage souls yet you the challenge met
Under palest watch, you taught, we changed, base instincts were redeemed,
A world you gave to bug and beast as they had never dreamed


Oh yeah, son, we playin' Hollow Knight

Hollow Knight is a tough but amazing Metroidvania, successfully kickstarted by Team Cherry. You are a lone, mysterious stag beetle warrior (or are you?) exploring the ruined kingdom of Hollownest for a mysterious mission. Some evil miasma destroyed this kingdom and drove its inhabitants insane. The Hollow Knight knows why, and is on a mission to stop it.

It goes without saying that the artwork is stellar. It starts off monochrome, but the use of color is critical to the game. Combat and movement are fluid.

More to come. I think my thumb and index finger are fucked. Its quite literally stopping me from continuing this game.

3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
Cantido on
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Posts

  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    My experience with the game has some powerful negatives, but it would be tough for me to overstate how great the art and sound design are for this game. It's one thing when everything is hand-animated, it's another thing when there's so much content and it all looks so smooth and so good. I can get through a game like RE7 without being remotely disturbed by the "horror" aspect, but there are regions in Hollow Knight that give me the heeby-jeebies with nothing but foreground sprites and creepy-ass critter sounds in the background.

    3clipse
  • DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    I'm loving this. The world is just so big. It's a frequent occurrence that I prod at a wall or crevice expecting to pick up a powerup, only to find I've wandered into a whole new zone. I actually died once in a zone I have no recollection how to return to. Since you have to return to your "bloodstain" ala Dark Souls to retrieve your currency (and something else), this was the first time I actually lost my stuff (or so I thought, the game provides a clever workaround for this kind of situation).

    The map system is of particular note. I know it's turned off some people, but here's how it works: You don't just auto-map the places you've been to. You first have to find a recurring companion named Cornifer, who is a cartographer. He'll provide you with a sketch of the zone, which you can view by holding L in real time. The map doesn't show where you are unless you have a badge equipped (this was my first badge and frankly I don't think I'll ever be able to take it off). Once you have the map, you'll be able to draw in the places you've been. But only when you reach a place to rest. Benches in this game are your respawn point, where you can change your badges, and the only place where you can "fill in" the map.

    The practical effect of all of this is that when you enter a new zone, you're flying totally blind. You'll have to muddle your way though unfamiliar territory, just hoping to find a fast travel point, a bench, or gods willing, Cornifer. In one zone, I actually couldn't find him, and I was in there so long I built a nearly complete mental map of the entire zone before acquiring the in-game map.

    So fair warning, if you don't like getting lost beneath the surface of the earth, you're going to have a rough go of it. Personally, between the challenge of the combat, the thrill of the unknown, and the freedom to be lost for hours, this game is exactly what I wanted. The atmosphere is perfect. The one thing that doesn't quite feel like Metroid (and this is a deliberate design choice, not necessarily a failing of the game) is that you don't feel like an unstoppable killing machine. I'm 14 hours in and I've only expanded my life by 1.

    Edit: Has anyone figured out how to unlock the tram? There's a slot, but I haven't figured out what to put in it, and I've already explored the zones on both sides, so I think I just missed something.

    Delzhand on
    Steam|FFXIV|Switch SW-3472-4893-0802
    Cantidobalerbower
  • DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    Delzhand wrote: »
    Edit: Has anyone figured out how to unlock the tram? There's a slot, but I haven't figured out what to put in it, and I've already explored the zones on both sides, so I think I just missed something.

    Nope. I've seen a lot of tram stations but still haven't found the pass.

    Steam ID: Right here.
  • NaphtaliNaphtali Null Registered User regular
    I saw the first hour or so of gameplay for this on the SBFP channel and holy shit, it looks incredible. I love the bizarre twist on the map system. I'm definitely going to pick this up on the switch whenever it finally hits.

    B.net: Naphtali#1830 | Steam | Nintendo ID: Naphtali | PSN: EI-Naphtali | Wish List
  • AkimboEGAkimboEG Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    There are multiple trams, and you'll find the tram pass quite a bit after you encounter the first one. It's actually fairly late into the game.

    Unrelated tip: talk to NPCs multiple times, and check in on them once in a while.

    Spoiler (d key):
    The same goes for dream nail.

    AkimboEG on
    Give me a kiss to build a dream on; And my imagination will thrive upon that kiss; Sweetheart, I ask no more than this; A kiss to build a dream on
  • DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    Re: that item
    I'm still not sure, lore wise, what I'm doing with the Dream Nail. I thought it was really neat that you could hit enemies with it and hear their thoughts, and then I tried it out on the gravekeeper ghost outside of Dirtmouth.

    Whoops! I turned him into essence and absorbed him.

    Delzhand on
    Steam|FFXIV|Switch SW-3472-4893-0802
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Delzhand wrote: »
    I'm loving this. The world is just so big. It's a frequent occurrence that I prod at a wall or crevice expecting to pick up a powerup, only to find I've wandered into a whole new zone. I actually died once in a zone I have no recollection how to return to. Since you have to return to your "bloodstain" ala Dark Souls to retrieve your currency (and something else), this was the first time I actually lost my stuff (or so I thought, the game provides a clever workaround for this kind of situation).

    The map system is of particular note. I know it's turned off some people, but here's how it works: You don't just auto-map the places you've been to. You first have to find a recurring companion named Cornifer, who is a cartographer. He'll provide you with a sketch of the zone, which you can view by holding L in real time. The map doesn't show where you are unless you have a badge equipped (this was my first badge and frankly I don't think I'll ever be able to take it off). Once you have the map, you'll be able to draw in the places you've been. But only when you reach a place to rest. Benches in this game are your respawn point, where you can change your badges, and the only place where you can "fill in" the map.

    The practical effect of all of this is that when you enter a new zone, you're flying totally blind. You'll have to muddle your way though unfamiliar territory, just hoping to find a fast travel point, a bench, or gods willing, Cornifer. In one zone, I actually couldn't find him, and I was in there so long I built a nearly complete mental map of the entire zone before acquiring the in-game map.

    So fair warning, if you don't like getting lost beneath the surface of the earth, you're going to have a rough go of it. Personally, between the challenge of the combat, the thrill of the unknown, and the freedom to be lost for hours, this game is exactly what I wanted. The atmosphere is perfect. The one thing that doesn't quite feel like Metroid (and this is a deliberate design choice, not necessarily a failing of the game) is that you don't feel like an unstoppable killing machine. I'm 14 hours in and I've only expanded my life by 1.

    Edit: Has anyone figured out how to unlock the tram? There's a slot, but I haven't figured out what to put in it, and I've already explored the zones on both sides, so I think I just missed something.

    It should be noted that if you don't mind just looking things up, a player shouldn't get stuck that bad. Most of my negative experience in the game has been that there is just absolutely no useful guidance after a certain point and a SHITLOAD of space to try and figure things out in (and LOTS of time spent without being able to see the maps for a lot of areas). But I also absolutely hate the notion of looking something up because it's ridiculous to have to do that for a modern Metroidvania game; however, if the player doesn't really care about looking things up, it shouldn't be a problem.

  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    This game is not small.

    This game is large.

    Like really fucking large, holy shit.

    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
    KoopahTroopah
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Cantido wrote: »
    This game is not small.

    This game is large.

    Like really fucking large, holy shit.

    Yeah, there's a really really good reason why I was getting super pissed off about not being able to find maps for sections and how bad the game is about letting you know where you need to go. And it's because the game is pretty damn huge. At least twice the size of the usual 2D Metroid game, but probably more like 3 times the size.

    When you flounder here, you flounder over a fuckload more distance and it takes a lot longer to find things.

    Which just means go look up a map online, which I was tremendously resistant to because this is 2017 and nobody should be having to do stupid crap like that anymore due to bad design choices.

  • DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    Cantido wrote: »
    This game is not small.

    This game is large.

    Like really fucking large, holy shit.

    What's more, so, so much of it is optional. I just finished my first playthrough, clocking in at almost 22 hours. Before I went to the end, I bought all the maps I'd missed, and there were entire zones I'd never been in. I've frequently lamented that most games these days seem really fenced in, even ostensibly exploration based ones, because developers don't want to put in hours on content people won't see. This game is the opposite. You can push out to the frontiers, there aren't nearly as many hard upgrade gates as a typical metroid. In fact, I think there are only... 5 mobility upgrades?
    air dash, wall climb, poison swim, double jump, charge dash

    The character interactions are very Dark Souls as well. There are some bugs I met once or twice and never saw again, one who I think met an unfortunate fate I might have been able to prevent, and one whose story I saw to the end. There's no quest markers or ways to track them, of course.

    There are a couple of really intense fights in here. The last boss is some white knuckle shit.

    Big Spoilers
    I mean endgame strategies and boss reveals
    The dream version of Lost Kin and the last boss are amazing fights. I ended up using:
    Joni's Blessing - can't heal, but you get 4 extra life
    Lifeblood Heart - 2 more life
    Steady Body - no pushback when attacking
    Thorns of Agony - counter damage when struck

    So I had 12 blue masks going in and I came out trembling with one left after about 12 tries on both of them.

    Steam|FFXIV|Switch SW-3472-4893-0802
  • DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    Combat tip: Mark of Pride and Longnail stack, tripling your melee range.

    Mark of Pride you get as a reward after beating the Mantis Lords, Longnail is purchased from Salubra.

    Steam|FFXIV|Switch SW-3472-4893-0802
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    A lot of the issue I have with the game is that things that are charms should just be flat-out upgrades, or just on by default. Money should not be spraying out of enemies in such a way that you have to choose between wasting time picking it up or using a charm slot to pick it up without stopping, you should just automatically get all the money from defeated enemies. Most boss attacks are obviously timed to frustrate almost any healing attempts, so faster healing should just be an earned permanent upgrade. The basic melee range in the game is completely miserable considering that almost every enemy is multiple times your size and most attacks have a larger hurtbox than you plus your swing distance, so at least one melee range increase should just be an outright upgrade and not need a charm.

    On top of that, most of the charms offer so little benefit that they're basically pointless. Increased magic efficiency and magic power charms offer so little increase they may as well not even be in the game. Charm that shields you when healing? Damage still interrupts your healing, you just don't take life damage from it so it's pretty useless for bosses. It also only works a handful of times between rests, making it even more useless. Damage aura? Ineffective against anything but the weakest of weak enemies.

    Probably a solid half of the charms in the game are pointlessly weak, another quarter are borderlines pointless, and only the remainder are reliably useful for anything.

    Gundi
  • hushhush Registered User regular
    Some of the shit ones are used in secret combos that do neat little things, but yes, there's a lot of stuff in there I have no real intention of ever using for realsies in the game.

    This is the future. This is what we built. This is what we wanted. It must have been. Because we all had the fucking choice, didn't we? It is only our money that allows commercial culture to flower. If we didn't want to live like this, we could have changed it at any time, by not fucking paying for it.

    So let's celebrate by all going out and buying the same burger. -transmet
  • AkimboEGAkimboEG Registered User regular
    As a counterpoint, I haven't once used the extra range charms and the shield-when-healing one helped me out in multiple boss battles.

    Give me a kiss to build a dream on; And my imagination will thrive upon that kiss; Sweetheart, I ask no more than this; A kiss to build a dream on
  • hushhush Registered User regular
    I don't really like the shield because like it was stated above, it still interrupts your heal, but I can get behind the quick heal - that one has worked well for me against bosses and in the coliseum. I assume a lot of this is preference, but the costs on some of these is completely out of whack for what they do.

    This is the future. This is what we built. This is what we wanted. It must have been. Because we all had the fucking choice, didn't we? It is only our money that allows commercial culture to flower. If we didn't want to live like this, we could have changed it at any time, by not fucking paying for it.

    So let's celebrate by all going out and buying the same burger. -transmet
  • DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    Yeah I don't actually feel like the extra range charms are necessary, I just know that the lack of melee range was one of Snarl's chief complaints. Frankly, I like the badge system and I'm glad they aren't permanent upgrades. I like finding my own strategy instead of just progressively lowering the game's difficulty. One of the spoilers up there includes my setup for basically never even having to heal during boss fights.

    I'll concede that the money pickup charm should have been a permanent thing though, like the lamp.

    Steam|FFXIV|Switch SW-3472-4893-0802
  • 3clipse3clipse I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    This game did not super click for me (mostly because I'm not a huge fan of 2D melee, that's an issue with me, not with the game), but it is worth checking out for everyone, because the art and sound are fucking STELLAR.

    I mean, I'd take Nick Offerman's spikey cat dick willingly
    Lucedes
  • AkimboEGAkimboEG Registered User regular
    Endgame
    I think I gave up on trying to 100% this, but I did get all the charms and am going for the "true" ending. Thing is, Hollow Knight is a laughably easy fight, but Radiance tore me to pieces a few times now. Having to redo the Hollow Knight fight each time is getting old.

    Give me a kiss to build a dream on; And my imagination will thrive upon that kiss; Sweetheart, I ask no more than this; A kiss to build a dream on
  • DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    Okay, so there are multiple endings. I got...
    what I assume is the bad ending. I beat Hollow Knight, and I just got chained up in its place.

    While we're in spoiler territory, is there any way to save...
    Myla, the singing miner bug?

    Steam|FFXIV|Switch SW-3472-4893-0802
  • AkimboEGAkimboEG Registered User regular
    Delzhand wrote: »
    Okay, so there are multiple endings. I got...
    what I assume is the bad ending. I beat Hollow Knight, and I just got chained up in its place.
    Yes. At the very minimum, there are two. I think there might be some extra secret ones.
    Delzhand wrote: »
    While we're in spoiler territory, is there any way to save...
    Myla, the singing miner bug?
    Don't know. I didn't go back to visit after her eyes turned orange because I was afraid I might have to kill her :sad:

    Give me a kiss to build a dream on; And my imagination will thrive upon that kiss; Sweetheart, I ask no more than this; A kiss to build a dream on
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    Just beat the game.

    Honestly annoyed I wasted my time playing, if they call that an ending. Not at all a challenging fight, short mostly-meaningless cutscene kicks in, and then there are some unskippable credits. Kept waiting for some other fight to kick in, but nope, just wasted 20-something hours of my time to get an incredibly lazy and short ending. All that atmospheric world-building and I expected, well, an ending, not a 15-second copout, even if I got the "bad" ending (and no fucking game you can spend 20 hours should even have a bad ending, talk about shitty design). If I haven't "earned" a decent ending for a game by doing 75% of everything, the devs just don't know what they're doing as far as game design goes.

    Yeah, I know you can go do some grindy shit to get a different ending, but honestly, I'd just suggest people not bother with the game at this point. Or at least don't bother playing it with the expectation that the ending is worth something; if you just want it for exploring a pretty neat-looking setting, go for it.

    Ninja Snarl P on
  • LucedesLucedes i'm not real, and i deny Registered User regular
    I bought this game and I really like it so far.

    The atmosphere, the art, the sound design, the music. The characters! The controls!

  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    Split second freezes of both the screen an input keep getting me hit or killed. It knows I'm on a 144Hz screen so I can't change it, and the rez is 1950x1080. It happens during certain particle effects (such as taking a hit) or no particular reason at all. Does anyone have a similar problem?

    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
  • CorpekataCorpekata Registered User regular
    Cantido wrote: »
    Split second freezes of both the screen an input keep getting me hit or killed. It knows I'm on a 144Hz screen so I can't change it, and the rez is 1950x1080. It happens during certain particle effects (such as taking a hit) or no particular reason at all. Does anyone have a similar problem?

    It's a Unity engine thing. Notorious for stutters like that, and it's a bit more prominent in Hollow Knight that some others.

    Next patch is supposed to be optimization focused so hopefully they get fixed.

    steam_sig.png
    Add me on PSN, Raptr and Wii U and probably every other gaming service under the name: Corpekata
    3ds Friend code: 2251-4724-0730
    CantidoLucedes
  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    The entire lower half of the map is so Dark Souls.

    There's some serious Nope down there.

    And I think the story is turning into a nod of Dark Souls.
    Dream nail on orange junkies reveals they are light/heat worshipping loonies. Sounds like Gwyn is an asshole.

    I'm quite fond of Fragile Strength because I'll take every piece of DPS I can get while my thumb is busted.

    Cantido on
    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
  • 3clipse3clipse I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    I mean even from minute 1 the whole thing is thoroughly Dark Souls. You arrive at a mostly abandoned town, it seems like the world is ending, and everyone is slowly losing their mind and turning hostile? It even has hollow in the name!

    3clipse on
    I mean, I'd take Nick Offerman's spikey cat dick willingly
    Kristmas Kthulhuitalianranma
  • Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    You arrive at a mostly abandoned town, it seems like the world is ending, and everyone is slowly losing their mind and turning hostile?

    Detroit?

    3clipseDyvim TvarLucedesRoad BlockMrVyngaard
  • DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    I'm an ardent defender of this game, it's basically everything I ever wanted in this genre, but there are some nasty input bugs that I hope get fixed. I have, so far:
    • Become stuck floating in midair, unable to move
    • Become stuck in a slow fall
    • Become stuck moving left, right next to a spike pit, causing me to to die repeated

    Thankfully you can always quit the game to return to the last bench and retain your geo and any progress. Two of those incidents were from 1.0.0.5, which was the release version, so it's possible they've been fixed, but the last one happened last night.

    Steam|FFXIV|Switch SW-3472-4893-0802
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Cantido wrote: »
    Split second freezes of both the screen an input keep getting me hit or killed. It knows I'm on a 144Hz screen so I can't change it, and the rez is 1950x1080. It happens during certain particle effects (such as taking a hit) or no particular reason at all. Does anyone have a similar problem?

    Happened to me constantly, and I also could not find the reason for it.

    Lucedes
  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    Phew! Completed the true ending in 23:34, with 84% completion.
    I don't particularly like stories about God being evil, but, yeah, fuck Radiance, AKA Gwyn.

    And now I'm going to put my thumb in ice...

    Cantido on
    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
    H3Knuckles
  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles Jack of all interests... ...master of noneRegistered User regular
    edited March 2017
    Cantido wrote: »
    Phew! Completed the true ending in 23:34, with 84% completion.
    I don't particularly like stories about God being evil, but, yeah, fuck Radiance, AKA Gwyn.

    And now I'm going to put my thumb in ice...
    I feel like it's a massively played-out trope in story-driven games at this point. Like, how many JRPG's have that for the end game? Do the developers think it's still edgy? Almost nobody actually does anything meaningful or insightful with it as a narrative theme. They just kind of plop it in there.

    H3Knuckles on
    If you're curious about my icon; it's an update of the early Lego Castle theme's "Black Falcons" faction.
    camo_sig2-400.png
  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    Cantido wrote: »
    Phew! Completed the true ending in 23:34, with 84% completion.
    I don't particularly like stories about God being evil, but, yeah, fuck Radiance, AKA Gwyn.

    And now I'm going to put my thumb in ice...
    I feel like it's a massively played-out trope in story-driven games at this point. Like, how many JRPG's have that for the end game? Do the developers think it's still edgy? Almost nobody actually does anything meaningful or insightful with it as a narrative theme. They just kind of plop it in there.

    I will say that Hollow Knight does a better job than most.
    Yeah, I mean I get it, fundamentalism taken to its logical conclusion: making God evil.

    Hollow Knight does something interesting. Radiance is a god of beasts. He created hive minded, savage insects, mindlessly eating and killing and fucking and laying eggs. Until the Pale King was born with enough might to overthrow Radiance, giving insects sapience. Radiance, still sealed, gradually imposes his will on Hallownest, reducing its inhabitants to something worse than instinct: savage malice.

    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
    3clipseH3Knuckles
  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles Jack of all interests... ...master of noneRegistered User regular
    edited March 2017
    I remember a time, when I was in junior high, where Breath of Fire 2 wasn't that old, and Final Fantasy Tactics was the hot new thing, and no one had even heard of Shin Megami Tensei. And back then, it was kind of a big thing, having a monotheistic god be the main villain of your work. But that was 19 fucking years ago. People who are now old enough to be going to college were born after multiple mainstream games had been released in North America with that narrative.

    H3Knuckles on
    If you're curious about my icon; it's an update of the early Lego Castle theme's "Black Falcons" faction.
    camo_sig2-400.png
    CantidomanwiththemachinegunAuralynx
  • DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    The true last boss is no fucking joke.

    Steam|FFXIV|Switch SW-3472-4893-0802
  • DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    And I just failed my first Steel Soul run. Got to Hornet, overconfidence killed me.

    Steam|FFXIV|Switch SW-3472-4893-0802
  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    This game is cool and good and has a really neat setting.

    But man I hope they patch out the performance hiccups it seems to get at intense moments.

    LucedesCantido
  • DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    Are you playing on Steam? 1.0.1.1 dropped today and it seems very much improved.

    Steam|FFXIV|Switch SW-3472-4893-0802
    H3Knuckles
  • LucedesLucedes i'm not real, and i deny Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    how can a human being be so good at platforming and so bad at combat?

    i ask myself this question over and over.

    EDIT:
    WHO THE HELL PUTS A BOSS ON TOP OF A SAVE POINT
    AFTER A LONG PLATFORMING SECTION?!
    :/ my ghost lingers

    Lucedes on
  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    That mini-boss is really tough too.

    Naphtali
  • DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    And glitched, too. His name appears every time he screams. I encountered another weird bug today. I just finished the third arena trial, and when I left the room, I turned invisible, couldn't interact with anything, and could only move with the super dash. They've really got to work this shit out. Thankfully I've always been able to quit to title, but someone who doesn't live for this genre is going to be real put off. I'll tolerate a lot from a metroidvania this size and this level of polish, but there is some basic quality of life shit I hope they address.
    1. Don't play sound when I'm alt-tabbed
    2. Since restarting returns you to the last bench with no progress lost, don't make me quit the game to do it
    3. Make end credits skippable

    Steam|FFXIV|Switch SW-3472-4893-0802
    Magic Pink
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