Ok just beat Troupe Master Grimm after about 27 tries
This is how you know it’s a fair fight, though- now that I’ve beat it once, I’m pretty sure I can beat it every time
And yes I’m aware that he gets new tricks later...
I have a bad habit of slashing when I should dodge and dodging when I should slash
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Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
Graah! Absolute Radiance can eat my ass.
I can defeat her, but I can't do it consistently. It all depends on whether or not she happens to use a bullshit combo of attacks. I do not want to get to the end of a 45 minute pantheon run and have her decide to do that.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
I've been stuck in the first area for about a week because
I forgot I'd found a boss almost immediately, died, eventually got the map, filled in the map and thought the boss room logo was the fast travel. Finally went back there, killed the first guy and got the fireball, now I'm in Greenpath.
...this game will take me a long time to beat, huh? :P
Hmm I don't really understand how I'm supposed to beat this miniboss
the brooding mawlek covers basically the whole screen in damaging hitboxes, in a very small arena, and jumps around a lot. I don't know how to avoid being damaged; it seems like you have to take hits.
Hmm I don't really understand how I'm supposed to beat this miniboss
the brooding mawlek covers basically the whole screen in damaging hitboxes, in a very small arena, and jumps around a lot. I don't know how to avoid being damaged; it seems like you have to take hits.
When the mawlek does the leap attack, it will always be to your position. Move to where the Mawlek was, and the leap will miss you.
The single-shot spit attack doesn't track your position, so you can dodge it by moving around in the side of the screen you're on; just look to where they're gonna land.
The big vomit attack that coers half the screen can be avoided by jumping and dashing over Brooding Mawlek after the gunk is spat out, and before it lands.
It's an optional boss fight, so you can come back later with more upgrades, but those tactics should help.
Finally, finally, finally started this today. Was hooked immediately, which surprised me - I had heard so much about how it's a slow and difficult start, super obtuse, and very unfriendly to new players. In contrast, I'm zipping all over the map, enjoying the blind exploration, and figured out quickly how to set and accomplish some goals for myself. Beautiful art and music.
Instead of doing anything productive at all, I spent all day playing this game. A lot of things have happened.
I have been walking around with thousands of Geo, not knowing what to spend it on, and finally ended up back at the hut I couldn't get to--the charm seller. I bought everything except the last two charm slots. I'd been wondering where all the slots were.... Some of these new charms are splendid. The faster healing would have been lovely had I found it before the Soul Master.
I finally beat the soul master and now I am trying to remember all the obvious ground pounds spots. Wish I had marked these earlier.
Found the graveyard area and had a little dream confrontation with the Dreamers, rescued by moth lady, have collected 300 essence. Life is getting weird. Clearly they're somehow tied to the plague and to the Hollow Knight who is in a temple dedicated to the dreamers... Right now this feels very Shadow of the Colossus, like my character has some agenda with consequences that may be horrendous. Am I the Hollow Knight, reduced? Am I trying to cure the plague, or release it, or is Hallownest "ensuring" a reference to eternal bug undeath?
I upgraded my nail to the first pale ore level, so that made life easier with some of the newer enemies. Sitting at 6 health and 1 soul nodule.
Still haven't beaten that goddamn miniboss. Definitely found some DLC content also.
I have been hugely enjoying the way this game forces you to explore and take moderate risks. Dying is inconvenient and a little scary if you're carrying lots of cash, and retrieving your shadow is very important because of that broken soul container. And having to go back to your last checkpoint is very troublesome. That pressure plus the long distances between checkpoints and rarity of fast travelsome people complained about how unforgiving it is, but I find other metroidvanias are too merciful and trivialize traversal, which undermines the sense of place. Hallownest feels like a big, real place more than the videogamey 2d maps in most of the genre.
Evil Multifarious on
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HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
Protip: if you ever need to zip back to your previous checkpoint, saving and quitting to the title screen takes you back to the last bench while preserving all your progression.
I was super paranoid about protecting my geo, but I shouldn't have been, because I almost never had trouble recovering it when I died. I think I lost it maybe once ever? As opposed to Dark Souls, where I lost bloodstains all the damn time. As long as I wasn't fighting a boss, I was almost never in danger of dying, with the exception of
Fog Canyon, fuck those jellyfish with homing explosion cores
and it's trivial to kill your shade. Even if you die to a boss, your shade is usually outside the boss room, or at least far enough from the boss that you don't have to start the boss fight before dealing with the shade.
And then there's a special character who will summon your shade for you! I had no idea what the eggs were for for 90% of the game, until I purposely went to go see Jiji while my shade was left somewhere, just to see how that worked.
I don't really see the complaints about the fast travel, either. The world is huuuuge, but the fast travel points seem decently placed. Save points are also everywhere. The only problem is sometimes when you're exploring a new area, you happen to go exactly the wrong direction so you miss all of the save points.
And in a lot of areas, there are signposts pointing to benches, so sometimes that's your own fault for not paying attention.
I only lost Geo once. It's a bit embarrassing but I was in such a rush to get back to fighting the final boss that I boosted right past my shade. Good thing at that point it didn't matter.
Protip: if you ever need to zip back to your previous checkpoint, saving and quitting to the title screen takes you back to the last bench while preserving all your progression.
I almost wish you hadn't told me this
Edit: whoa I have explored a bunch and gone back to the Forgotten Crossroads
There's goo everywhere! Oh god! I'm very confused!
Also in Deepnest I killed the Broken Vessel who looks like me but an undead plague creature--and then I spotted a perfect duplicate of me standing in a corner and he was gone when I got there.
Edit: whoa I have explored a bunch and gone back to the Forgotten Crossroads
There's goo everywhere! Oh god! I'm very confused!
There's two triggers for that.
Getting Monarch Wings or killing any of the Dreamers.
Also in Deepnest I killed the Broken Vessel who looks like me but an undead plague creature--and then I spotted a perfect duplicate of me standing in a corner and he was gone when I got there.
There's no way good things are happening.
Rollers are red, chargers are blue....omae wa mou shindeiru
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Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
Protip: if you ever need to zip back to your previous checkpoint, saving and quitting to the title screen takes you back to the last bench while preserving all your progression.
I almost wish you hadn't told me this
Edit: whoa I have explored a bunch and gone back to the Forgotten Crossroads
There's goo everywhere! Oh god! I'm very confused!
Also in Deepnest I killed the Broken Vessel who looks like me but an undead plague creature--and then I spotted a perfect duplicate of me standing in a corner and he was gone when I got there.
There's no way good things are happening.
I will just say, that so far, it is mostly your fault that this has happened. Not entirely, but mostly.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Edit: whoa I have explored a bunch and gone back to the Forgotten Crossroads
There's goo everywhere! Oh god! I'm very confused!
There's two triggers for that.
Getting Monarch Wings or killing any of the Dreamers.
Also in Deepnest I killed the Broken Vessel who looks like me but an undead plague creature--and then I spotted a perfect duplicate of me standing in a corner and he was gone when I got there.
This is kind of a Dark Souls kindle the flame kind of situation, where the "vessel" who is kept safe by the Dreamers needs to hold back the infection. The player is the latest vessel, and the final boss will be the most recent vessel before, or the first vessel (the Hollow Knight), or the infestation in a more incarnate, representative form.
Because this game leans pretty hard into the etymologically inspired creatures and events, I think this is some kind of cordyceps-style parasitic fungus that influences or dominates cognition, and it makes sense (maybe I'm reading too much in now) for a huge city to be struggling with repeated outbreaks due to population density. Some enemies are infested and dangerous, while some enemies don't understand the cycle and think you're trying to destroy the last vestiges of defense against the infestation. OR you are an agent of some ill purpose and they should indeed stop you.
I don't know if or how the soul magic stuff ties into the broader plot, since it doesn't fit with the more roughly naturalistic setting.
The White Palace was not nearly as bad as it sounded, looking back at the thread. I've played Ori.and Super Meat Boy and Celeste so i knew what to expect, but it was a lot shorter than I thought and also the fact that death just puts you back on the last platform made it HUGELY easier compared to those games, especially with the Grub charm (and Hiveblood, though I ended up rarely waiting for the agonizing twenty seconds).
The Radiance, on the other hand, is hard as balls. Hollow Knight himself is a total chump with Unbreakable Strength, Quick Slash and a Pure Nail (you can basically just mash attack and stay in his grill, especially with Stalwart Shell), but the Radiance will take 53 attacks to kill by my calculations, while I die in 4 hits. I could lift it to 7 hits, but then I would take more like 80+ hits to kill the dang thing. Tricky to find a spot to heal, too.
Plot stuff, endgame:
So I was pretty spot-on, wasn't I, except that it seems the answers are more mystical than naturalistic; the Radiance is somehow the source of the infestation, sealed inside the Vessel, the Hollow Knight, seemingly by the Pale King. I haven't seen anything about The Radiance's motivations, or why the King sealed it away (was it a threat before the plague? Did the infestation only happen after the sealing? Why is it breaking out? Etc.) Regardless, your normal job is to go there and defeat the Hollow Knight because he's cracking open and losing control, replacing him and holding the infestation in. But if you find the Void mask, it... earns Hornet's trust for some reason, enough that she'll help you get into his brain? I guess the idea is she now thinks you're actually tough enough and motivated enough to defeat the Radiance and is willing to risk a failed containment of the Hollow Knight to destroy the infection itself.
I also haven't seen much about the Void, which seems creepy and unsettling and evil but also seems like the power by which the King and the dreamers created a vessel to seal the Radiance. It sure seems dangerous and malevolent! The metaphysics on both sides are pretty vague, which is a bit unsatisfying when you get to the point of actually confronting the direct sources of these forces.
Is there some real world creature the Wyrms are analogous to, or are they just bug dragons?
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Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
Woo! Did it! Finally beat the Pantheon of Hallownest. There was a weird moment right at the end where my character bugged out so I could see him all during the closing sequence, but whatever! I'll take it! Fifth Pantheon beat. And I will never, ever be able to do all the bindings for it! Nor Radiant mode for the Hall of Gods! Not in a million years! Whee!
@Evil Multifarious - Lorewise, the answer to some of your questions can be found in some out of the way places - the Seer if you gather 2400 essence, Bardoon in the Kingdom's Edge, and some hidden rooms in White Palace (and if you're after a tougher platforming challenge, one of those rooms holds the Path of Pain, which has some extra lore as well). If they aren't outright answered, they're at least hinted at.
The Radiance's power is implied to reduce bugs to a feral state and enslave them to a hive mind unity, while the Pale King's power seems to grant bugs individual minds. Bugs that leave the kingdom's boundaries where the Pale King's power exists appear to lose their sentient minds. It isn't clear whether or not the Radiance was outright malevolent in its rule - it's possible the Pale King just didn't want competition. Hidden writings in the White Palace declare "No blazing kin. Only one light shall shine against the dark. The Wyrm becomes beacon, minds expanded, to yield, to devote."
The Hollow Knight ultimately failed as a vessel because it failed to remain truly hollow - the Pale King required a vessel with no mind for the Radiance to affect, as her power infects bugs through their dreams. But the Hollow Knight is implied to have developed a mind while being raised by the Pale King, and so containment ultimately failed. There is a lot of discussion about whether the player character Knight represents a truly hollow vessel that could contain the Radiance permanently.
The Void is one of the scariest powers in the game currently. With the dream nail you can hear the thoughts of the giant abyssal bug holding the Shade Cloak, who describes it as "Power without unity" and refers to the "Lord of Shades" if you have the Void Heart. The Pale King's writings in White Palace describe it as having "Eternity potential" and desires to harness it. Ordinarily it is dangerous but doesn't appear to have the focus to be actively malicious. Some of the Godmaster content hints at just how dangerous it really is when it is given this focus.
I think the Wyrms are meant to represent the Hollow Knight equivalent of some more god-like fantasy dragons, being immensely powerful magical creatures. Though they may be based on certain cool-looking caterpillars.
Though Bardoon, who also seems based on a caterpillar, mentions that he is too small and has too many limbs to be a Wyrm.
Congrats on finishing the game, good luck with any of the DLC stuff you decide to do. There are some challenges way harder than the final boss out there.
I figured the Pale King is a parasitic wasp, with the Wyrm being his larval form, or just a body he was feeding on,and his power to civilise the bugs a play on wasps changing the behaviour of the insects they prey on. His child is afterall a hornet.
The Radience was a god, or better described as a primordial Titan. When it was locked away it tried to return the bugs to their primal state, it’s only perceived as an infection, or as the Radience is locked away it’s being mean about it. It’s also a pun on insects being attracted to light sources, especially moths.
The name has nothing to do with him. Outside of the game spoilers follow:
Team Cherry had originally intended Hornet to be the "Child of Three Queens". One birthed (Herra), one raised (The White Lady), and one trained (Hive Queen Vespa). The name came from the last one, as hornets are insects of the genus Vespa.
I’ve lost somewhere like 20k geo on my current save file
It happens
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Losing geo is exactly like losing souls in Dark Souls: feels terrible the first time it happens to you and then by the end of the game you're like "meh."
Moreso than in Dark Souls, even. In that series, souls are experience points in addition to money; you could use them to get stronger even when you ran out of things to buy. In Hollow Knight, you will eventually buy everything tha can be bought.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Moreso than in Dark Souls, even. In that series, souls are experience points in addition to money; you could use them to get stronger even when you ran out of things to buy. In Hollow Knight, you will eventually buy everything tha can be bought.
True, although the Unbreakable charms cost enough Geo that it can be a real grind to get them.
I didn't realize that that vendor had a use, and just sent her on her way along with the rest of the troupe. Oh well. Didn't need those charms for anything anyway.
I didn't realize that that vendor had a use, and just sent her on her way along with the rest of the troupe. Oh well. Didn't need those charms for anything anyway.
She shouldn't leave, even after dealing with Grimm, afaik
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This is how you know it’s a fair fight, though- now that I’ve beat it once, I’m pretty sure I can beat it every time
And yes I’m aware that he gets new tricks later...
I have a bad habit of slashing when I should dodge and dodging when I should slash
I can defeat her, but I can't do it consistently. It all depends on whether or not she happens to use a bullshit combo of attacks. I do not want to get to the end of a 45 minute pantheon run and have her decide to do that.
...this game will take me a long time to beat, huh? :P
The single-shot spit attack doesn't track your position, so you can dodge it by moving around in the side of the screen you're on; just look to where they're gonna land.
The big vomit attack that coers half the screen can be avoided by jumping and dashing over Brooding Mawlek after the gunk is spat out, and before it lands.
It's an optional boss fight, so you can come back later with more upgrades, but those tactics should help.
I finally beat the soul master and now I am trying to remember all the obvious ground pounds spots. Wish I had marked these earlier.
Found the graveyard area and had a little dream confrontation with the Dreamers, rescued by moth lady, have collected 300 essence. Life is getting weird. Clearly they're somehow tied to the plague and to the Hollow Knight who is in a temple dedicated to the dreamers... Right now this feels very Shadow of the Colossus, like my character has some agenda with consequences that may be horrendous. Am I the Hollow Knight, reduced? Am I trying to cure the plague, or release it, or is Hallownest "ensuring" a reference to eternal bug undeath?
I upgraded my nail to the first pale ore level, so that made life easier with some of the newer enemies. Sitting at 6 health and 1 soul nodule.
Still haven't beaten that goddamn miniboss. Definitely found some DLC content also.
I have been hugely enjoying the way this game forces you to explore and take moderate risks. Dying is inconvenient and a little scary if you're carrying lots of cash, and retrieving your shadow is very important because of that broken soul container. And having to go back to your last checkpoint is very troublesome. That pressure plus the long distances between checkpoints and rarity of fast travelsome people complained about how unforgiving it is, but I find other metroidvanias are too merciful and trivialize traversal, which undermines the sense of place. Hallownest feels like a big, real place more than the videogamey 2d maps in most of the genre.
and it's trivial to kill your shade. Even if you die to a boss, your shade is usually outside the boss room, or at least far enough from the boss that you don't have to start the boss fight before dealing with the shade.
I don't really see the complaints about the fast travel, either. The world is huuuuge, but the fast travel points seem decently placed. Save points are also everywhere. The only problem is sometimes when you're exploring a new area, you happen to go exactly the wrong direction so you miss all of the save points.
I almost wish you hadn't told me this
Edit: whoa I have explored a bunch and gone back to the Forgotten Crossroads
Also in Deepnest I killed the Broken Vessel who looks like me but an undead plague creature--and then I spotted a perfect duplicate of me standing in a corner and he was gone when I got there.
There's no way good things are happening.
I will just say, that so far, it is mostly your fault that this has happened. Not entirely, but mostly.
Because this game leans pretty hard into the etymologically inspired creatures and events, I think this is some kind of cordyceps-style parasitic fungus that influences or dominates cognition, and it makes sense (maybe I'm reading too much in now) for a huge city to be struggling with repeated outbreaks due to population density. Some enemies are infested and dangerous, while some enemies don't understand the cycle and think you're trying to destroy the last vestiges of defense against the infestation. OR you are an agent of some ill purpose and they should indeed stop you.
I don't know if or how the soul magic stuff ties into the broader plot, since it doesn't fit with the more roughly naturalistic setting.
The Radiance, on the other hand, is hard as balls. Hollow Knight himself is a total chump with Unbreakable Strength, Quick Slash and a Pure Nail (you can basically just mash attack and stay in his grill, especially with Stalwart Shell), but the Radiance will take 53 attacks to kill by my calculations, while I die in 4 hits. I could lift it to 7 hits, but then I would take more like 80+ hits to kill the dang thing. Tricky to find a spot to heal, too.
Plot stuff, endgame:
I also haven't seen much about the Void, which seems creepy and unsettling and evil but also seems like the power by which the King and the dreamers created a vessel to seal the Radiance. It sure seems dangerous and malevolent! The metaphysics on both sides are pretty vague, which is a bit unsatisfying when you get to the point of actually confronting the direct sources of these forces.
Is there some real world creature the Wyrms are analogous to, or are they just bug dragons?
@Evil Multifarious - Lorewise, the answer to some of your questions can be found in some out of the way places - the Seer if you gather 2400 essence, Bardoon in the Kingdom's Edge, and some hidden rooms in White Palace (and if you're after a tougher platforming challenge, one of those rooms holds the Path of Pain, which has some extra lore as well). If they aren't outright answered, they're at least hinted at.
The Hollow Knight ultimately failed as a vessel because it failed to remain truly hollow - the Pale King required a vessel with no mind for the Radiance to affect, as her power infects bugs through their dreams. But the Hollow Knight is implied to have developed a mind while being raised by the Pale King, and so containment ultimately failed. There is a lot of discussion about whether the player character Knight represents a truly hollow vessel that could contain the Radiance permanently.
The Void is one of the scariest powers in the game currently. With the dream nail you can hear the thoughts of the giant abyssal bug holding the Shade Cloak, who describes it as "Power without unity" and refers to the "Lord of Shades" if you have the Void Heart. The Pale King's writings in White Palace describe it as having "Eternity potential" and desires to harness it. Ordinarily it is dangerous but doesn't appear to have the focus to be actively malicious. Some of the Godmaster content hints at just how dangerous it really is when it is given this focus.
I think the Wyrms are meant to represent the Hollow Knight equivalent of some more god-like fantasy dragons, being immensely powerful magical creatures. Though they may be based on certain cool-looking caterpillars.
Though Bardoon, who also seems based on a caterpillar, mentions that he is too small and has too many limbs to be a Wyrm.
Congrats on finishing the game, good luck with any of the DLC stuff you decide to do. There are some challenges way harder than the final boss out there.
The Radience was a god, or better described as a primordial Titan. When it was locked away it tried to return the bugs to their primal state, it’s only perceived as an infection, or as the Radience is locked away it’s being mean about it. It’s also a pun on insects being attracted to light sources, especially moths.
Grimm is Dracula.
Source here.
It happens
True, although the Unbreakable charms cost enough Geo that it can be a real grind to get them.
She shouldn't leave, even after dealing with Grimm, afaik
ooh, I didn't realize we were talking banishment. yeah, didn't pick that so I don't know.
That trip becomes a lot of time if you're using it for boss attempts.