a)If you charge, you can only declare attacks verse units you declared charges against this turn. You must be with 1" of the enemy with at least one model. And those with in 1" of that model can fight too. (I totally missed this part in my first reading). So figuring by this yeah, if you consolidate but declare a charge into that unit you can attack them.
I mean, using tanks as rolling cover is a legit historical tactic.
But, playability over realism everyday for 40k.
I need to thoroughly read the 8th ed cover rules, been so busy I haven't had a chance to spend quality time with the rulebook yet.
Basic cover rules in the quick play rules is simple:
1)If infantry and the unit is fully with in the terrain you get +1 to your cover save.
2)If a vehicle and fully with in cover and are 50% obscured you get a +1 cover save.
The advanced rules for forest, ruins, and so on though are more complex. Like infantry can get cover from a crater but a tank can't and so on.
I'll honest most peoples issues with cover is solved by the advanced cover rules in the rule book.
Are you going to spend 10 minutes before every game assigning which 'bespoke' cover rules apply to which type of terrain feature?
Yes?
Taking 10 minutes (if even that) to go "this is a ruin, this is a crater, this is a forest, this uses the basic cover rules. Being in cover uses this this and this footprint" should be the norm for any game you play? Each terrain type is pretty clear as to what grants cover, I would wager it's your players being unclear with each other rather than any issues with the rules.
The game on the Warhammer TV stream with Tau vs Khorne, I'm sure the commentators said that if the berserkers charged 2 units but failed to reach one but ended up consolidating into it, then they would get to attack for their 2nd combat.
It's certainly possible they were wrong, but they did have the writers of the rules playing that game and I'm sure they took a break to figure this out.
I'm ok with this? I don't know the book well enough to be 100%, but if just one guy needs to make it into combat for the charge to be successful, and they took overwatch fire from both units, they should be able to pile in and make the second attacks.
Right?
Since your name means "swedish" in swedish, I just assumed you were, ya know, swedish.
Two Questions: One thing that came up that was a new concept for me in the close combat phase is consolidating into 1" of another unit (that isn't in combat already), thereby being able to be swung at by that unit, HOWEVER this now means the unit is in close combat with you so they have to fall-back on their turn to withdraw from combat...
Even if you consolidate into 1" of an enemy unit you cannot attack them during that combat. This is one of those rulings that annoys me a ton with my beserkers who get two fight phases but only verse the unit they charged.
No, what he is saying is that the unit you consolidate into can attack you
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
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valhalla13013 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered Userregular
edited July 2017
I want opinions. My new Primaris Marines are likely going to be a different chapter. But I want something you don't see every day. I've been thinking of the Mentors, because they are a chapter which tests new equipment and learns from other chapters and teaches other chapters tactics they learn.
But is there anything else you guys can think of that would be cooler? Give me the name of the chapter and a brief reason why you think they are cool. It doesn't have to be a lot. I don't want more yellow, or all red, although some red would be okay.
I mean, using tanks as rolling cover is a legit historical tactic.
But, playability over realism everyday for 40k.
I need to thoroughly read the 8th ed cover rules, been so busy I haven't had a chance to spend quality time with the rulebook yet.
Basic cover rules in the quick play rules is simple:
1)If infantry and the unit is fully with in the terrain you get +1 to your cover save.
2)If a vehicle and fully with in cover and are 50% obscured you get a +1 cover save.
The advanced rules for forest, ruins, and so on though are more complex. Like infantry can get cover from a crater but a tank can't and so on.
I'll honest most peoples issues with cover is solved by the advanced cover rules in the rule book.
Are you going to spend 10 minutes before every game assigning which 'bespoke' cover rules apply to which type of terrain feature?
Yes?
Taking 10 minutes (if even that) to go "this is a ruin, this is a crater, this is a forest, this uses the basic cover rules. Being in cover uses this this and this footprint" should be the norm for any game you play? Each terrain type is pretty clear as to what grants cover, I would wager it's your players being unclear with each other rather than any issues with the rules.
I think you misunderstand, the problem the rules are all over the place. It's my only beef so far with 8th. Some terrain will slow charges, others won't. Some is full movement through, others 1/2, and others 1/4. Some grants cover when 1/4 obscured and others 1/2. And that's not getting into 6 pieces of terrain gw sells and is in the book - all my custom terrain would need bases added and individual datasheets made. It's a lot more to go over before a game and for each player to remember for very little added enjoyment.
Much easier to have a more comprehensive flat set of terrain rules then make additions when needed. When we play at my place everything grants cover if 50% obscured and adds +2 to charge distance. Only a few pieces are difficult terrain (1/2 move)
Now when we play a game there is more consistency between terrain pieces (less to remember) and we have a little more cover on the board. Added bonus is it helps with how lethal shooting is now.
I usually host games at my place, so I haven't played at the local store much yet, but I'll be suggesting it to my group there too.
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
The more Primaris stuff I see the less they do for me.
I hope not everything goes in this new design direction. I'd hate for the 40k aesthetic to have jumped the shark for me.
I think it's just odd seeing shiny new armor and stuff for the Imperium.
Especially when they still adorn it with beat up old reliquaries and purity seals.
"Hey, we've built shiny new marines and shiny new armor for them and shiny new vehicles for them to ride into battle!
"Great, now strap this holy ancient codpiece on over the top of that armor. We need the people to know they're Astartes!
Maybe if we saw some with weathered paint jobs or some wear on them? That kind of defeats the entire purpose of new marines though, I guess.
In more positive news, my accessorized Betrayal at Calth White Scars marines are all assembled.
That said, I think I might want to customize them a bit further, and I am considering taking the plunge into green stuff for the first time.
I am thinking of giving them something like the fur collar from the Titan in destiny, though probably more pelty as that is easier to sculpt. I'm hoping it won't look too space wolf-y though, but I imagine no one will confuse them once they are painted white.
Never done green stuff though so not sure how to best tackle this though, or how good it will end up looking.
I mean, using tanks as rolling cover is a legit historical tactic.
But, playability over realism everyday for 40k.
I need to thoroughly read the 8th ed cover rules, been so busy I haven't had a chance to spend quality time with the rulebook yet.
Basic cover rules in the quick play rules is simple:
1)If infantry and the unit is fully with in the terrain you get +1 to your cover save.
2)If a vehicle and fully with in cover and are 50% obscured you get a +1 cover save.
The advanced rules for forest, ruins, and so on though are more complex. Like infantry can get cover from a crater but a tank can't and so on.
I'll honest most peoples issues with cover is solved by the advanced cover rules in the rule book.
Are you going to spend 10 minutes before every game assigning which 'bespoke' cover rules apply to which type of terrain feature?
Yes?
Taking 10 minutes (if even that) to go "this is a ruin, this is a crater, this is a forest, this uses the basic cover rules. Being in cover uses this this and this footprint" should be the norm for any game you play? Each terrain type is pretty clear as to what grants cover, I would wager it's your players being unclear with each other rather than any issues with the rules.
I think you misunderstand, the problem the rules are all over the place. It's my only beef so far with 8th. Some terrain will slow charges, others won't. Some is full movement through, others 1/2, and others 1/4. Some grants cover when 1/4 obscured and others 1/2. And that's not getting into 6 pieces of terrain gw sells and is in the book - all my custom terrain would need bases added and individual datasheets made. It's a lot more to go over before a game and for each player to remember for very little added enjoyment.
Much easier to have a more comprehensive flat set of terrain rules then make additions when needed. When we play at my place everything grants cover if 50% obscured and adds +2 to charge distance. Only a few pieces are difficult terrain (1/2 move)
Now when we play a game there is more consistency between terrain pieces (less to remember) and we have a little more cover on the board. Added bonus is it helps with how lethal shooting is now.
I usually host games at my place, so I haven't played at the local store much yet, but I'll be suggesting it to my group there too.
No, I understand, I just don't think it's difficult at all really. There are a handful of variations that all work in broadly the same way as each other. It's clearly been designed for tournaments in mind, because you can simply go ok this is a ruin, this is a forest, this is a crater and have everyone be on the same page. The variations on cover percentages and so on are just to make terrain have different strategic values. If you play all terrain as using identical cover rules then there's very little point choosing your table side provided there's a reasonably symmetrical number of terrain pieces. As it stands I might choose one side because say there are craters or forests on my side which will slow your charges and I'm playing a gun line for example. As far as large scale battle games go it's very very simple. Compare it with say warmachine where there are different terrain specific rules for
Hills
Forests
Lava
Acid
Clouds
Fire clouds
Linear obstacles
Trenchs
And these all work completely differently. Comparatively the 40k rules are very much easier to remember.
Of course this is just like, my opinion man, and if your group is happy with the way your doing it then you know, go nuts.
I mean, using tanks as rolling cover is a legit historical tactic.
But, playability over realism everyday for 40k.
I need to thoroughly read the 8th ed cover rules, been so busy I haven't had a chance to spend quality time with the rulebook yet.
Basic cover rules in the quick play rules is simple:
1)If infantry and the unit is fully with in the terrain you get +1 to your cover save.
2)If a vehicle and fully with in cover and are 50% obscured you get a +1 cover save.
The advanced rules for forest, ruins, and so on though are more complex. Like infantry can get cover from a crater but a tank can't and so on.
I'll honest most peoples issues with cover is solved by the advanced cover rules in the rule book.
Are you going to spend 10 minutes before every game assigning which 'bespoke' cover rules apply to which type of terrain feature?
Yes?
Taking 10 minutes (if even that) to go "this is a ruin, this is a crater, this is a forest, this uses the basic cover rules. Being in cover uses this this and this footprint" should be the norm for any game you play? Each terrain type is pretty clear as to what grants cover, I would wager it's your players being unclear with each other rather than any issues with the rules.
I think you misunderstand, the problem the rules are all over the place. It's my only beef so far with 8th. Some terrain will slow charges, others won't. Some is full movement through, others 1/2, and others 1/4. Some grants cover when 1/4 obscured and others 1/2. And that's not getting into 6 pieces of terrain gw sells and is in the book - all my custom terrain would need bases added and individual datasheets made. It's a lot more to go over before a game and for each player to remember for very little added enjoyment.
Much easier to have a more comprehensive flat set of terrain rules then make additions when needed. When we play at my place everything grants cover if 50% obscured and adds +2 to charge distance. Only a few pieces are difficult terrain (1/2 move)
Now when we play a game there is more consistency between terrain pieces (less to remember) and we have a little more cover on the board. Added bonus is it helps with how lethal shooting is now.
I usually host games at my place, so I haven't played at the local store much yet, but I'll be suggesting it to my group there too.
No, I understand, I just don't think it's difficult at all really. There are a handful of variations that all work in broadly the same way as each other. It's clearly been designed for tournaments in mind, because you can simply go ok this is a ruin, this is a forest, this is a crater and have everyone be on the same page. The variations on cover percentages and so on are just to make terrain have different strategic values. If you play all terrain as using identical cover rules then there's very little point choosing your table side provided there's a reasonably symmetrical number of terrain pieces. As it stands I might choose one side because say there are craters or forests on my side which will slow your charges and I'm playing a gun line for example. As far as large scale battle games go it's very very simple. Compare it with say warmachine where there are different terrain specific rules for
Hills
Forests
Lava
Acid
Clouds
Fire clouds
Linear obstacles
Trenchs
And these all work completely differently. Comparatively the 40k rules are very much easier to remember.
Of course this is just like, my opinion man, and if your group is happy with the way your doing it then you know, go nuts.
I would be more on your side of the fence if it wasn't for the fact the only terrain rules provided in the book are for products GW sells. It's not a generic set of terrain rules, it's just a set of rules for things GW sells in boxes.
It even explicitly states "if you build your own terrain, make your own rules!" I don't own a GW battlescape, or an imperial statue or any fuel lines. So I'm left to make my own bespoke rules for every my table of non-GW terrain.
They even go as far to say "If you have rivers or rock formations - you have make your own terrain rules!" Which is nice - but I want to make sure when I sit down to a game my and my opponent are on the same page. Why not include basic rules in the book? Stripping the basic terrain/cover rules to almost nothing and having to build that rule set back up every table and person I play on it is too much, there's no reason not to have a better core set of terrain rules to start from. Special terrain should be the exception, not the standard for anything GW doesn't sell. (And yes, I've always started games with my opponents going over the terrain on the board - been playing this game for 15 years so I know this is important to go over before game situations arise!)
But really, at the end of the day, the main issue our group has is with lack of cover in general. We kill two birds with one stone with the flat >50% obscured gives cover rule - makes terrain matter more and brings more cover to the game. +1 save isn't a huge deal for how hard cover is to get in the main rules. Granting cover for things like shooting through units is a change that makes the game feel better while still keeping the general abstraction 8th is going for IMO.
Edit: typing so much about terrain I guess I should post some pictures of games at my place. I have 10ish 8th ed games under my belt but not many pictures yet!
We got some games in today. We are all new to this since 3rd / 4th and we couldn't work out from the rule book what is "normal/standard" 40k.
Warlord traits?
Deployment options?
Missions?
If you went to a games club and got a pick up game what would be expected as the norm? Or there no such thing? We will be using points if that makes a difference
We got some games in today. We are all new to this since 3rd / 4th and we couldn't work out from the rule book what is "normal/standard" 40k.
Warlord traits?
Deployment options?
Missions?
If you went to a games club and got a pick up game what would be expected as the norm? Or there no such thing? We will be using points if that makes a difference
If you have the book use the match play missions and those give you all the deployment rules too. Most folks at my club do use warlord traits.
Here we have mostly been playing with points except for a couple games before 8th officially released since a lot of the people here are on the more competitive side. We just use the matched play rules in the back part of the rule book and the eternal war missions, mostly because no one wanted to sit down and come up with a set of house rules that make the maelstrom missions actually fair. Have been playing relic mission with the linebreaker/slay warlord/first blood objectives even though it lacks them in the book for no reason to help avoid ties. Other than that just playing them as written for now while everyone gets use to all the other changes. I guess we have been using warlord traits, but the three in the main rule book are just not much use for a lot of armies so I have just forgotten about it playing guard in about 3/4 of my games, some of the SM codex ones are better though.
Everyone has been playing 2000 points unless its a game vs a newer player that can't field that much stuff yet, and I guess that feels about right. How it feels seems to vary wildly with what army & type of list you are trying to do. I only really play imperial so have tried making list with various forms of marines and guard. 2k for a guard infanty list does not feel cramped at all, you can get ~150 models on the board with dozens of heavy weapons even with some expensive characters and a few artillery tanks, and that's not using conscripts. Mechanized runs out of points way faster though. Marines at 2k feels like 1500 or less from a couple editions ago and its even worse the more tanks you stick in.
Edit: typing so much about terrain I guess I should post some pictures of games at my place. I have 10ish 8th ed games under my belt but not many pictures yet!
(cheating with a Shadow War games...)
Sharp, lemme come over and get some games in
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
No-QuarterNothing To FearBut Fear ItselfRegistered Userregular
The Aggressors are 60 bucks US.
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valhalla13013 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered Userregular
Maybe this will go over better...
If I bought the Mk III marines box, would they fit as-is in my regular 40k IF army? Or would I need to have different bolters/backpacks/whatever for them to look right?
Boyz were in the Trukks. The Lootas with their mek were one wagon. The other was boss, weird boy, big mek, and the lootas and the meganobz.
Pretty much a charge up the board army with the boyz and and wagons and get in the face fast. I would call a speed freaks army.
I was worried about the Lootas and the Tankbustas more than anything as the boyz and truks were mulch to my army in my head. But those two things could kill my Land Raider. Overall big threats are the meganobz, loots, tankbustas, and the boss as always. Boyz were too small to be scary.
Chaos Terminators : No Chaos Mark
. Chaos Terminator Champion: Chainfist, Combi-bolter
. Terminator: Combi-bolter, Power axe
. Terminator: Combi-melta, Power axe
. Terminator: Combi-plasma, Power maul
. Terminator w/ Heavy Weapon: Power axe, Reaper autocannon
+ Heavy Support +
Chaos Land Raider : Twin heavy bolter, 2x Twin lascannon
Chaos Vindicator
Havocs : No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Chainsword
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Lascannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Missile launcher
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Heavy bolter
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Heavy bolter
The Zerkers and Kharn are basically death sentences to any orks they get in combat with. The Raider is going to be hard to crack for Orks unless they get some good rolls. Sorc helps get me into places I need or give me the ability to shoot better. The termis go where needed as I feel there won't be a back line.
We did the mission with cards that was at night. Slay the warlod, line breaker, and first blood also in effect.
I deployed a bit back to make the Orks be aggressive into my fire.
As you can see one of the CSM squads is in a tower for cover. One in the rhino. And the havocs are in a forward position with really good line of sight. I sadly didn't take a lot of pics today. Orks are going first this game and I didn't seize.
Orks turn 1:
Zooms up the board towards me. Lots of big shoota shots. I lose a havoc, take the champ, and use a point to reroll my 2+ armor save. I rolled terribly this first turn. He don't really do much to anything else. The vindi takes a rocket or two but no negative penalties. The trackks come in from behind me as well but do not much damage. My first turn luck is amazingly bad.
Overall quick ork turn.
CSM Turn 1:
I get out my sorc and move him into cover that gives him lots of targets for prescience. Move up the land raider so when it disgorges Kharn and his zerkers they are in range of an easy charge. Shoot at stuff and roll terrible. Termis come down in the back. Also took my CSM out of my rhino and moved them in easy rapid fire range of the buggies plus the rhino in rapid fire range too.
Sorc perils himself for two wounds on snake eyes. He doesn't do a lot this game.
Shoot leads to my termis rolling 1s and 2s doing 0 damage to the truck. The landraider, havocs, and the hellbrute take a wagon down to 2 wounds. The rapid fire, long range bolter/plasma fire, and the rhino take the trakks to 1 w. The basic chaos marine basically are my unsung heroes this game doing tons of small damage to things.
Overall I wiffed a lot this turn. Lots 1s on shots. Some I forgot I could reroll with my lord.
To finish out my turn I charged the trakk with my rhino so it couldn't shoot.
Orks turn 2:
Moves up more. Some boyz get out to take the mid objective. Lootas wagon doesn't move but does heal 1 from the mek so it as 3w.
In shooting I lose another havoc so I take out a heavy bolter. I lose a termi. I take some wounds on the vindi and the land raider but nothing major. Deffkoptas come on the board on his end to try and deal with the termis but are hiding for the turn due to where he had to place them.
No ork charges. He tried to nuke my sorc with some shots and a smite none did anything.
CSM turn 2:
This was my turn and when my dice came back from the grave. So many 1s.
In moves the termis move to the heavy damaged wagon. Kharn and the Zerkers get out and split. The zerkers towards the boyz in a ruin on an objective. Kharn towards the loota wagon in front of him. My rhino backs out of combat with the trakk so I can shoot it.
The CSM destroy the trakk with bolters and plasma. The Landraider blows up the damaged wagon. The havocs finish off a trukk leaving the boyz in the open. The vindi kills a boy. That is 3 units destroyed though and it gives me objective card for shooing units and a d3 points.
I charge the lootas first with the termis. Lootas go nuts in overwatch and kill two. Termis make it in though. Kharn then charges and gets in easily. Zerkers charge into the boyz in the center and get in taking two wounds from overwatch. Seriously overwatch was my bane.
In combat the lootas are wiped by Kharn before I even use the termis. The zerkers kill all 10 boys no problem. And consolidate.
This gives me 5 units killed scoring another card for 1d3 and killing at least 1 unit in assault for one more point. Also first blood. I am roll well and I am at 8 pts after the turn.
Ork turn 3:
He moves up his koptas to get the termis as they have plasma guns. Instead just hits his own dude with a 1. Megas also get out and move toward the vindicator. He was really scare of the vindi but I don't think it is that great. It is more in there for the spearhead cp. But it takes a lot of fire. His firing does kill my sorc at this point. Also my LR is at 6 hp by the end of this turn.
He also gets more boys out to charge my zerkers. Moves a squad towards my havocs but still a bit out of charge range unless he rolls really well.
Charge phase he charges the vindi. I do nothing with overwatch. He charges the bezerkers I kill one with a pistol shot. He charges the copters into the termis. Kharn is just outside intervention range.
Boys kill one zerker.
Big moment I even went and looked it up and talked to him about using the CP to let the termis strike first reducing the copters to 4 attacks. Copters do nothing.
At this point he is in my face but I have killed 20 of his 30 boyz, a trukk and a wagon.
CSM turn 3:
I pull back the vindi, move up the csm squad into rapid fire range of the meganobz. Moved my Chaos Lord up to about 7 inches of the last boyz unit. Kharn is in range of the koptas. And redirected the land raider toward the last wagon.
I also moved out the dreadnought so it could charge the wagon if my shooting didn't finish it.
Shooting is pretty straight forward. Kill boy with the flamer. I get the wagon down to about 4 wounds. And the meganobz get wiped by my normal marine squads and plasma.
Kharn charges the coptas. The zerkers just hold the line. And the dread destroys the wagon. In the end everything is out and opened or dead.
Ork turn 4-
He kills my dread and that is it. He charges my zerkers with the truk, they kill it.
CSM turn 4- I wipe all but the boss, weird boy, mek, and 6 tank busters from the board.
Turn 5- We play it to just get it over. He doesn't do much. I shoot his warlord.
Game over 8-3 points.
It was a fun game but felt by turn 3/4 it was very much me playing clean up. CSM with plasma guns were boss. I know I can have 3 per unit with combis as well.
Don't underestimate the standard squads. They are great.
If I bought the Mk III marines box, would they fit as-is in my regular 40k IF army? Or would I need to have different bolters/backpacks/whatever for them to look right?
They'd look great but distinct, imo.
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TIFunkaliciousKicking back inNebraskaRegistered Userregular
If I bought the Mk III marines box, would they fit as-is in my regular 40k IF army? Or would I need to have different bolters/backpacks/whatever for them to look right?
Nobody's gonna stop you if that's what you're asking. My area has a few SM armies that have mixed in horus heresy stuff and they don't look silly next to 40k models in the same color scheme. Also I support anything that lets people tell squads apart
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Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
If I bought the Mk III marines box, would they fit as-is in my regular 40k IF army? Or would I need to have different bolters/backpacks/whatever for them to look right?
Nah, they'd just look like veterans. They'd be good to sprinkle into other squads, or use as a command/vet squad.
Speaking of, I have a bunch from the prospero box, NOS, if you're looking for some for less than retail.
I'm doing my tact marines as mk4, my assault marines as mk3, my bikers as mk7/8 and my inceptors as mk10 for my white scars because f it, my army my rules.
Got in a fun 1000pt game tonight. Blood Ravens Primaris (Starter box army) vs their corrupt ancestors the Thousand Sons (Ahriman, two units of Rubrics with 2x Flamers and the cannon thing and a Scarab Occult with the Missile launcher and the cannon thing). Played with the Open War deck just to fiddle with it and it was really cool.
Lots of lessons were learned, but lots of fun was had by both of us.
Heroes of the game for me-
Primaris Ancient for post-death vengeance shots and all the rerolls from the Lieutenants, Captain, and Salamanders' Chapter Tactics.
had a pretty fun game today, we used the new Open War deck for objectives etc.
ended up in a draw but it was a brutal game thanks to "the twist" of debris raining from the sky (rolled at least one 6 every time)
I used the T'au SunShark Bomber for the first time, it is a beast against Infantry though the bulk of its offense was in the movement phase not the shooting.
I think the Flyer rule is perfect. They errata'd it so that a Flyer does not count as a unit on the table against being tabled. So sure, take your strong mobile unit, but if your list just spams them your opponent can ignore them to just destroy you.
Q: If a model flees from an Adeptus Astartes unit, can an
Apothecary use its narthecium to return a model to the unit?
A: No, the narthecium can only be used to return slain
models to a unit.
Q: If a model flees from an Adeptus Astartes unit, can an
Apothecary use its narthecium to return a model to the unit?
A: No, the narthecium can only be used to return slain
models to a unit.
Well that's fucking dumb.
Time to get out my scratch paper and keep notes?
I think I can confidently say that this is a rule everyone will ignore.
Q: If a model flees from an Adeptus Astartes unit, can an
Apothecary use its narthecium to return a model to the unit?
A: No, the narthecium can only be used to return slain
models to a unit.
Well that's fucking dumb.
Time to get out my scratch paper and keep notes?
I think I can confidently say that this is a rule everyone will ignore.
It makes sense, if a guy runs away a medic isn't going to help shit.
Posts
Bikes are 14 now, or 12, I forget.
And then advance 8 cause whitescars.
Then rapid fire and charge thanks to the strategem.
a)If you charge, you can only declare attacks verse units you declared charges against this turn. You must be with 1" of the enemy with at least one model. And those with in 1" of that model can fight too. (I totally missed this part in my first reading). So figuring by this yeah, if you consolidate but declare a charge into that unit you can attack them.
Yes?
Taking 10 minutes (if even that) to go "this is a ruin, this is a crater, this is a forest, this uses the basic cover rules. Being in cover uses this this and this footprint" should be the norm for any game you play? Each terrain type is pretty clear as to what grants cover, I would wager it's your players being unclear with each other rather than any issues with the rules.
I'm ok with this? I don't know the book well enough to be 100%, but if just one guy needs to make it into combat for the charge to be successful, and they took overwatch fire from both units, they should be able to pile in and make the second attacks.
Right?
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No, what he is saying is that the unit you consolidate into can attack you
But is there anything else you guys can think of that would be cooler? Give me the name of the chapter and a brief reason why you think they are cool. It doesn't have to be a lot. I don't want more yellow, or all red, although some red would be okay.
I think you misunderstand, the problem the rules are all over the place. It's my only beef so far with 8th. Some terrain will slow charges, others won't. Some is full movement through, others 1/2, and others 1/4. Some grants cover when 1/4 obscured and others 1/2. And that's not getting into 6 pieces of terrain gw sells and is in the book - all my custom terrain would need bases added and individual datasheets made. It's a lot more to go over before a game and for each player to remember for very little added enjoyment.
Much easier to have a more comprehensive flat set of terrain rules then make additions when needed. When we play at my place everything grants cover if 50% obscured and adds +2 to charge distance. Only a few pieces are difficult terrain (1/2 move)
Now when we play a game there is more consistency between terrain pieces (less to remember) and we have a little more cover on the board. Added bonus is it helps with how lethal shooting is now.
I usually host games at my place, so I haven't played at the local store much yet, but I'll be suggesting it to my group there too.
before you freak out about the price, this will likely default to aussie dollary-doos
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I hope not everything goes in this new design direction. I'd hate for the 40k aesthetic to have jumped the shark for me.
I think it's just odd seeing shiny new armor and stuff for the Imperium.
Especially when they still adorn it with beat up old reliquaries and purity seals.
"Hey, we've built shiny new marines and shiny new armor for them and shiny new vehicles for them to ride into battle!
"Great, now strap this holy ancient codpiece on over the top of that armor. We need the people to know they're Astartes!
Maybe if we saw some with weathered paint jobs or some wear on them? That kind of defeats the entire purpose of new marines though, I guess.
That said, I think I might want to customize them a bit further, and I am considering taking the plunge into green stuff for the first time.
I am thinking of giving them something like the fur collar from the Titan in destiny, though probably more pelty as that is easier to sculpt. I'm hoping it won't look too space wolf-y though, but I imagine no one will confuse them once they are painted white.
Never done green stuff though so not sure how to best tackle this though, or how good it will end up looking.
No, I understand, I just don't think it's difficult at all really. There are a handful of variations that all work in broadly the same way as each other. It's clearly been designed for tournaments in mind, because you can simply go ok this is a ruin, this is a forest, this is a crater and have everyone be on the same page. The variations on cover percentages and so on are just to make terrain have different strategic values. If you play all terrain as using identical cover rules then there's very little point choosing your table side provided there's a reasonably symmetrical number of terrain pieces. As it stands I might choose one side because say there are craters or forests on my side which will slow your charges and I'm playing a gun line for example. As far as large scale battle games go it's very very simple. Compare it with say warmachine where there are different terrain specific rules for
Hills
Forests
Lava
Acid
Clouds
Fire clouds
Linear obstacles
Trenchs
And these all work completely differently. Comparatively the 40k rules are very much easier to remember.
Of course this is just like, my opinion man, and if your group is happy with the way your doing it then you know, go nuts.
I would be more on your side of the fence if it wasn't for the fact the only terrain rules provided in the book are for products GW sells. It's not a generic set of terrain rules, it's just a set of rules for things GW sells in boxes.
It even explicitly states "if you build your own terrain, make your own rules!" I don't own a GW battlescape, or an imperial statue or any fuel lines. So I'm left to make my own bespoke rules for every my table of non-GW terrain.
They even go as far to say "If you have rivers or rock formations - you have make your own terrain rules!" Which is nice - but I want to make sure when I sit down to a game my and my opponent are on the same page. Why not include basic rules in the book? Stripping the basic terrain/cover rules to almost nothing and having to build that rule set back up every table and person I play on it is too much, there's no reason not to have a better core set of terrain rules to start from. Special terrain should be the exception, not the standard for anything GW doesn't sell. (And yes, I've always started games with my opponents going over the terrain on the board - been playing this game for 15 years so I know this is important to go over before game situations arise!)
But really, at the end of the day, the main issue our group has is with lack of cover in general. We kill two birds with one stone with the flat >50% obscured gives cover rule - makes terrain matter more and brings more cover to the game. +1 save isn't a huge deal for how hard cover is to get in the main rules. Granting cover for things like shooting through units is a change that makes the game feel better while still keeping the general abstraction 8th is going for IMO.
Edit: typing so much about terrain I guess I should post some pictures of games at my place. I have 10ish 8th ed games under my belt but not many pictures yet!
(cheating with a Shadow War games...)
Warlord traits?
Deployment options?
Missions?
If you went to a games club and got a pick up game what would be expected as the norm? Or there no such thing? We will be using points if that makes a difference
If you have the book use the match play missions and those give you all the deployment rules too. Most folks at my club do use warlord traits.
Everyone has been playing 2000 points unless its a game vs a newer player that can't field that much stuff yet, and I guess that feels about right. How it feels seems to vary wildly with what army & type of list you are trying to do. I only really play imperial so have tried making list with various forms of marines and guard. 2k for a guard infanty list does not feel cramped at all, you can get ~150 models on the board with dozens of heavy weapons even with some expensive characters and a few artillery tanks, and that's not using conscripts. Mechanized runs out of points way faster though. Marines at 2k feels like 1500 or less from a couple editions ago and its even worse the more tanks you stick in.
Sharp, lemme come over and get some games in
Next time you are in Toronto you are more than welcome :biggrin:
If I bought the Mk III marines box, would they fit as-is in my regular 40k IF army? Or would I need to have different bolters/backpacks/whatever for them to look right?
Game: CSM vs. Orks
I was the CSM since I have well over 2000 points painted and I like putting out fully painted armies.
Ork Army from memory:
1x Boss in Megaarmor
1x Weird Boy
1x Big mek with a KFF
Elites:
3x Meganobz
10xTank Bustas
Troops:
10x Boyz w a Rokkit
10x Boyz w a Rokkit
10x Boyz w a Rokkit
Fast Attack
3x Deff Koptas
2x War Traks with Rokkits
Heavy Support:
2x Wagons w/ 4xbig shootas
10x Lootas w/1 mek
Transports:
3xTrukks
Boyz were in the Trukks. The Lootas with their mek were one wagon. The other was boss, weird boy, big mek, and the lootas and the meganobz.
Pretty much a charge up the board army with the boyz and and wagons and get in the face fast. I would call a speed freaks army.
I was worried about the Lootas and the Tankbustas more than anything as the boyz and truks were mulch to my army in my head. But those two things could kill my Land Raider. Overall big threats are the meganobz, loots, tankbustas, and the boss as always. Boyz were too small to be scary.
I was doing my deathball build.
++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [58 PL, 1005pts] ++
+ HQ +
Sorcerer : Bolt pistol, Force sword
+ Elites +
Chaos Terminators : No Chaos Mark
. Chaos Terminator Champion: Chainfist, Combi-bolter
. Terminator: Combi-bolter, Power axe
. Terminator: Combi-melta, Power axe
. Terminator: Combi-plasma, Power maul
. Terminator w/ Heavy Weapon: Power axe, Reaper autocannon
+ Heavy Support +
Chaos Land Raider : Twin heavy bolter, 2x Twin lascannon
Chaos Vindicator
Havocs : No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Chainsword
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Lascannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Missile launcher
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Heavy bolter
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Heavy bolter
++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [54 PL, 988pts] ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Legion: World Eaters
+ HQ +
Chaos Lord : Combi-flamer, Power fist
Kharn the Betrayer
+ Troops +
Chaos Space Marines : No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol
. 7x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun
. Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun
Chaos Space Marines : No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol
. 7x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun
. Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun
Khorne Berzerkers : Icon of Wrath
. Berserker: Bolt pistol, Chainaxe
. Berserker: Bolt pistol, Chainaxe
. Berserker: Bolt pistol, Chainaxe
. Berserker: Bolt pistol, Chainsword
. Berserker: Bolt pistol, Chainsword
. Berserker: Bolt pistol, Chainsword
. Berserker: Bolt pistol, Chainsword
. Berzerker Champion: Bolt pistol, Power sword
+ Elites +
Helbrute : Twin lascannon
. Helbrute fist: Heavy flamer
+ Dedicated Transport +
Chaos Rhino : Combi-bolter, Combi-bolter
++ Total: [112 PL, 1993pts] ++
Created with BattleScribe
The Zerkers and Kharn are basically death sentences to any orks they get in combat with. The Raider is going to be hard to crack for Orks unless they get some good rolls. Sorc helps get me into places I need or give me the ability to shoot better. The termis go where needed as I feel there won't be a back line.
We did the mission with cards that was at night. Slay the warlod, line breaker, and first blood also in effect.
I deployed a bit back to make the Orks be aggressive into my fire.
As you can see one of the CSM squads is in a tower for cover. One in the rhino. And the havocs are in a forward position with really good line of sight. I sadly didn't take a lot of pics today. Orks are going first this game and I didn't seize.
Orks turn 1:
Zooms up the board towards me. Lots of big shoota shots. I lose a havoc, take the champ, and use a point to reroll my 2+ armor save. I rolled terribly this first turn. He don't really do much to anything else. The vindi takes a rocket or two but no negative penalties. The trackks come in from behind me as well but do not much damage. My first turn luck is amazingly bad.
Overall quick ork turn.
CSM Turn 1:
I get out my sorc and move him into cover that gives him lots of targets for prescience. Move up the land raider so when it disgorges Kharn and his zerkers they are in range of an easy charge. Shoot at stuff and roll terrible. Termis come down in the back. Also took my CSM out of my rhino and moved them in easy rapid fire range of the buggies plus the rhino in rapid fire range too.
Sorc perils himself for two wounds on snake eyes. He doesn't do a lot this game.
Shoot leads to my termis rolling 1s and 2s doing 0 damage to the truck. The landraider, havocs, and the hellbrute take a wagon down to 2 wounds. The rapid fire, long range bolter/plasma fire, and the rhino take the trakks to 1 w. The basic chaos marine basically are my unsung heroes this game doing tons of small damage to things.
Overall I wiffed a lot this turn. Lots 1s on shots. Some I forgot I could reroll with my lord.
To finish out my turn I charged the trakk with my rhino so it couldn't shoot.
Orks turn 2:
Moves up more. Some boyz get out to take the mid objective. Lootas wagon doesn't move but does heal 1 from the mek so it as 3w.
In shooting I lose another havoc so I take out a heavy bolter. I lose a termi. I take some wounds on the vindi and the land raider but nothing major. Deffkoptas come on the board on his end to try and deal with the termis but are hiding for the turn due to where he had to place them.
No ork charges. He tried to nuke my sorc with some shots and a smite none did anything.
CSM turn 2:
This was my turn and when my dice came back from the grave. So many 1s.
In moves the termis move to the heavy damaged wagon. Kharn and the Zerkers get out and split. The zerkers towards the boyz in a ruin on an objective. Kharn towards the loota wagon in front of him. My rhino backs out of combat with the trakk so I can shoot it.
The CSM destroy the trakk with bolters and plasma. The Landraider blows up the damaged wagon. The havocs finish off a trukk leaving the boyz in the open. The vindi kills a boy. That is 3 units destroyed though and it gives me objective card for shooing units and a d3 points.
I charge the lootas first with the termis. Lootas go nuts in overwatch and kill two. Termis make it in though. Kharn then charges and gets in easily. Zerkers charge into the boyz in the center and get in taking two wounds from overwatch. Seriously overwatch was my bane.
In combat the lootas are wiped by Kharn before I even use the termis. The zerkers kill all 10 boys no problem. And consolidate.
This gives me 5 units killed scoring another card for 1d3 and killing at least 1 unit in assault for one more point. Also first blood. I am roll well and I am at 8 pts after the turn.
Ork turn 3:
He moves up his koptas to get the termis as they have plasma guns. Instead just hits his own dude with a 1. Megas also get out and move toward the vindicator. He was really scare of the vindi but I don't think it is that great. It is more in there for the spearhead cp. But it takes a lot of fire. His firing does kill my sorc at this point. Also my LR is at 6 hp by the end of this turn.
He also gets more boys out to charge my zerkers. Moves a squad towards my havocs but still a bit out of charge range unless he rolls really well.
Charge phase he charges the vindi. I do nothing with overwatch. He charges the bezerkers I kill one with a pistol shot. He charges the copters into the termis. Kharn is just outside intervention range.
Boys kill one zerker.
Big moment I even went and looked it up and talked to him about using the CP to let the termis strike first reducing the copters to 4 attacks. Copters do nothing.
At this point he is in my face but I have killed 20 of his 30 boyz, a trukk and a wagon.
CSM turn 3:
I pull back the vindi, move up the csm squad into rapid fire range of the meganobz. Moved my Chaos Lord up to about 7 inches of the last boyz unit. Kharn is in range of the koptas. And redirected the land raider toward the last wagon.
I also moved out the dreadnought so it could charge the wagon if my shooting didn't finish it.
Shooting is pretty straight forward. Kill boy with the flamer. I get the wagon down to about 4 wounds. And the meganobz get wiped by my normal marine squads and plasma.
Kharn charges the coptas. The zerkers just hold the line. And the dread destroys the wagon. In the end everything is out and opened or dead.
Ork turn 4-
He kills my dread and that is it. He charges my zerkers with the truk, they kill it.
CSM turn 4- I wipe all but the boss, weird boy, mek, and 6 tank busters from the board.
Turn 5- We play it to just get it over. He doesn't do much. I shoot his warlord.
Game over 8-3 points.
It was a fun game but felt by turn 3/4 it was very much me playing clean up. CSM with plasma guns were boss. I know I can have 3 per unit with combis as well.
Don't underestimate the standard squads. They are great.
Near the end pic:
They'd look great but distinct, imo.
Nobody's gonna stop you if that's what you're asking. My area has a few SM armies that have mixed in horus heresy stuff and they don't look silly next to 40k models in the same color scheme. Also I support anything that lets people tell squads apart
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Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
Nah, they'd just look like veterans. They'd be good to sprinkle into other squads, or use as a command/vet squad.
Speaking of, I have a bunch from the prospero box, NOS, if you're looking for some for less than retail.
Lots of lessons were learned, but lots of fun was had by both of us.
Heroes of the game for me-
Primaris Ancient for post-death vengeance shots and all the rerolls from the Lieutenants, Captain, and Salamanders' Chapter Tactics.
ended up in a draw but it was a brutal game thanks to "the twist" of debris raining from the sky (rolled at least one 6 every time)
I used the T'au SunShark Bomber for the first time, it is a beast against Infantry though the bulk of its offense was in the movement phase not the shooting.
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I did lose a game that I was up 8-3 because his HQ charged and killed 10 cultists and earned a couple layered objectives for 6 points at the end
New FAQs!
Edit: building an ynnari army seems to getting complicated. As far as I can tell you now have to take one of the special characters as your warlord.
Q: If a model flees from an Adeptus Astartes unit, can an
Apothecary use its narthecium to return a model to the unit?
A: No, the narthecium can only be used to return slain
models to a unit.
Well that's fucking dumb.
Time to get out my scratch paper and keep notes?
I think I can confidently say that this is a rule everyone will ignore.
It makes sense, if a guy runs away a medic isn't going to help shit.