Q: If a model flees from an Adeptus Astartes unit, can an
Apothecary use its narthecium to return a model to the unit?
A: No, the narthecium can only be used to return slain
models to a unit.
Well that's fucking dumb.
Time to get out my scratch paper and keep notes?
I think I can confidently say that this is a rule everyone will ignore.
It makes sense, if a guy runs away a medic isn't going to help shit.
Oh I agree, but it's a book keeping hassle, you need to keep track of who got shot and who fled per squad for your unit that has a 50/50 chance of bringing one guy back? Plus, by definition, you're only taking morale losses if you took real losses earlier, so there'll always be a legitimate model to resuscitate.
It only matters in a rare edge case where you lose a bunch of guys with bolters to shooting and are forced to pick a special weapons guy for the morale loss, which either won't happen in a small squad with SM LD and a big squad would have more bolter bros to select?
I don't know, for an Apothecary at least it seems like something everyone will just forget about, but I agree for Necrons it's a big deal.
Q: If a model flees from an Adeptus Astartes unit, can an
Apothecary use its narthecium to return a model to the unit?
A: No, the narthecium can only be used to return slain
models to a unit.
Well that's fucking dumb.
Time to get out my scratch paper and keep notes?
I think I can confidently say that this is a rule everyone will ignore.
It makes sense, if a guy runs away a medic isn't going to help shit.
Yes, but "it makes sense" so let's have a complicated, fiddly, hard to track rule that will lead to arguments and debates over minor things is the exact kind of thing that the 8th edition ruleset was designed to avoid.
Vehicles having armor facing "makes sense" but it was fiddly and annoying so it got ditched. This is also fiddly and annoying.
Also, holy hell that is a huge nerf to Necrons. At least they've got that rock solid leadership 10. But a necro player absolutely has to track all losses due to morale now as they are likely to regain all the models they've lost in a unit over the course of the game. How annoying.
Q: If a model flees from an Adeptus Astartes unit, can an
Apothecary use its narthecium to return a model to the unit?
A: No, the narthecium can only be used to return slain
models to a unit.
Well that's fucking dumb.
Time to get out my scratch paper and keep notes?
I think I can confidently say that this is a rule everyone will ignore.
It makes sense, if a guy runs away a medic isn't going to help shit.
Yes, but "it makes sense" so let's have a complicated, fiddly, hard to track rule that will lead to arguments and debates over minor things is the exact kind of thing that the 8th edition ruleset was designed to avoid.
Vehicles having armor facing "makes sense" but it was fiddly and annoying so it got ditched. This is also fiddly and annoying.
Also, holy hell that is a huge nerf to Necrons. At least they've got that rock solid leadership 10.
Honestly, I think this was done strictly as a Necron nerf but someone decided it's only fair to apply to Apothecaries also.
That Necron ruling is nothing new. They've always been unable to use resurrection shenanigans on dudes who were overrun or removed through not direct combat means
No one's saying it's rocket science, but its a fiddly bit of bookkeeping for a ruleset who's entire design philosophy has been to trim the fat.
Yes, you CAN put a dice next to every necron unit to keep track, but it would be easier not having to keep track of that at all.
The rules dont care about armour facing, firing arcs, wither a marine is hit with a heavybolter or autocannon, but it for some reason cares HOW a unit was "slain"? For crying out loud, the FAQ also clarifies that Poxwalkers can generate zombies out of necrons, who then also resurrect anyways! Why? Because its easier to just run the rules in a simple and consistent way and not fuss to much about specific edge cases. Like whether an apothecary is reviving a "dead" marine, or a marine with shellshock. Gamewise, it's the same damn thing, why draw the line here?.
For a game where everything's been abstracted for the sake of faster and easier gameplay, this is a step in the wrong direction.
No one's saying it's rocket science, but its a fiddly bit of bookkeeping for a ruleset who's entire design philosophy has been to trim the fat.
Yes, you CAN put a dice next to every necron unit to keep track, but it would be easier not having to keep track of that at all.
The rules dont care about armour facing, firing arcs, wither a marine is hit with a heavybolter or autocannon, but it for some reason cares HOW a unit was "slain"? For crying out loud, the FAQ also clarifies that Poxwalkers can generate zombies out of necrons, who then also resurrect anyways! Why? Because its easier to just run the rules in a simple and consistent way and not fuss to much about specific edge cases. Like whether an apothecary is reviving a "dead" marine, or a marine with shellshock. Gamewise, it's the same damn thing, why draw the line here?.
For a game where everything's been abstracted for the sake of faster and easier gameplay, this is a step in the wrong direction.
Preach it brother man!
0
Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
So, I came up with this to cover what I feel is a gap in the rules:
Stratagem: Rally the Troops {2}:
If your Warlord is still alive, choose a unit on the table and make a morale test for it. Instead of the usual results for this test, one model that previously fled is returned to the unit for each point it passes the test by and the unit doesn't lose any further models if it fails.
What do you think?
I may end up using it in a custom scenario even if I can't make it stick as a house rule.
I skimmed this the one time I used an Apoc... but, if you fail the rez someone, the rule describes that the Apoc harvests the geneseed.... but, there is nothing that prevents you from just... trying again next turn?
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
I skimmed this the one time I used an Apoc... but, if you fail the rez someone, the rule describes that the Apoc harvests the geneseed.... but, there is nothing that prevents you from just... trying again next turn?
All he can do is recover the geneseed for the rest of the turn. No shooting, running, or fighting if he fails. He can try the following turn.
Right... That seems odd. If he can still try again the next turn, why put in the fluff that he recovers the geneseed? Next turn he just tries to plug it back in?
This is, of course, assuming that the unit has only lost a single marine
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
Right... That seems odd. If he can still try again the next turn, why put in the fluff that he recovers the geneseed? Next turn he just tries to plug it back in?
This is, of course, assuming that the unit has only lost a single marine
You've never tried to fill a dead body with your geneseed?
No one's saying it's rocket science, but its a fiddly bit of bookkeeping for a ruleset who's entire design philosophy has been to trim the fat.
Yes, you CAN put a dice next to every necron unit to keep track, but it would be easier not having to keep track of that at all.
The rules dont care about armour facing, firing arcs, wither a marine is hit with a heavybolter or autocannon, but it for some reason cares HOW a unit was "slain"? For crying out loud, the FAQ also clarifies that Poxwalkers can generate zombies out of necrons, who then also resurrect anyways! Why? Because its easier to just run the rules in a simple and consistent way and not fuss to much about specific edge cases. Like whether an apothecary is reviving a "dead" marine, or a marine with shellshock. Gamewise, it's the same damn thing, why draw the line here?.
For a game where everything's been abstracted for the sake of faster and easier gameplay, this is a step in the wrong direction.
Preach it brother man!
I do agree with this, for marines it's not really that much book keeping (like we said your only going to use it a handful of times) but for necrons it sounds like a real pain, especially as the necron lists I've seen have been playing huge blobs of guys.
I guess the easiest way is to mark each squad somehow (number the bases) and just have a dead and ran away pile seperate when you take em off the table.
No one's saying it's rocket science, but its a fiddly bit of bookkeeping for a ruleset who's entire design philosophy has been to trim the fat.
Yes, you CAN put a dice next to every necron unit to keep track, but it would be easier not having to keep track of that at all.
The rules dont care about armour facing, firing arcs, wither a marine is hit with a heavybolter or autocannon, but it for some reason cares HOW a unit was "slain"? For crying out loud, the FAQ also clarifies that Poxwalkers can generate zombies out of necrons, who then also resurrect anyways! Why? Because its easier to just run the rules in a simple and consistent way and not fuss to much about specific edge cases. Like whether an apothecary is reviving a "dead" marine, or a marine with shellshock. Gamewise, it's the same damn thing, why draw the line here?.
For a game where everything's been abstracted for the sake of faster and easier gameplay, this is a step in the wrong direction.
Preach it brother man!
I do agree with this, for marines it's not really that much book keeping (like we said your only going to use it a handful of times) but for necrons it sounds like a real pain, especially as the necron lists I've seen have been playing huge blobs of guys.
I guess the easiest way is to mark each squad somehow (number the bases) and just have a dead and ran away pile seperate when you take em off the table.
The dice on the table is the easiest. For causalities from fighting/shooting you increase the die. For those that run away you don't.
You already have a shit ton of d6s for this. Basically a wound counter for troops.
0
Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
With the amount of effort I put into painting I'm not going to be laying my models on their sides and frankly with the number of multi-wound models there's enough clutter with keeping track of that.
It's a stupid 'clarification' that should have just been left as-is. This is yet another example of shit they figured out in AoS and is working just fine but for some reason they decided to make it terrible for 40k.
With the amount of effort I put into painting I'm not going to be laying my models on their sides and frankly with the number of multi-wound models there's enough clutter with keeping track of that.
It's a stupid 'clarification' that should have just been left as-is. This is yet another example of shit they figured out in AoS and is working just fine but for some reason they decided to make it terrible for 40k.
Considering they completely reversed shit with the shield drones.
I wouldn't be surprised if it got changed back based on feedback and a few upcoming big tournaments.
I hate any rule which requires keeping dice on the table for record keeping, because dice get scooped, bumped, and rolled. Yeah, it's not the end of the world, but it's a deviation from the goal of 8th which is to streamline, I guess.
For example, with CP I'm planning to model objective markers that I'll treat as CP. In the couple 8th edition games I've played already I've more than once seen someone at the table accidentally roll their CP die.
Look, all I'm saying is that it makes sense to have to track the individual number of rockets left in a cyclone missile launcher. I mean, it only has so many tubes and the practicality of reloading that weapon during combat operations is basically untenable.
Therefore, players should either keep a dice or get out a pad of paper and a pencil (readily available items really) and track their round expenditure for the weapon.
+1
Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
edited July 2017
In the hours leading up to a game one must keep track of the number of times sacred oils have been successfully applied to each marine's boltgun. Each successful applications allows for a +.25 modifier to that marine's reload rolls made after expending all the rounds in a clip which must also be tracked.
If that battle is taking place on a particularly dusty planet, apply a -.126 cumulative modifier for each phase that has passed so far in all game turns. Keep track of any phases in which that marine has been embarked on a transport as those phases will not add to the modifier.
I was going to make a joke about ticking off power Armour DMG boxes but then I thought a board game with like 2-3 marines with a battletech style sheet, with ammo, Armory DMG, like critical wounds, against like cultists who go down super fast, but you have to conserve bolter ammo and stuff.
I was going to make a joke about ticking off power Armour DMG boxes but then I thought a board game with like 2-3 marines with a battletech style sheet, with ammo, Armory DMG, like critical wounds, against like cultists who go down super fast, but you have to conserve bolter ammo and stuff.
Would be cool as shit.
Play the Deathwatch RPG from FFG, basically exactly what you're asking for.
In the hours leading up to a game one must keep track of the number of times sacred oils have been successfully applied to each marine's boltgun codpiece.
How I read it first time.
Everyday I wake up is the worst day of my life.
+1
valhalla13013 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered Userregular
In the hours leading up to a game one must keep track of the number of times sacred oils have been successfully applied to each marine's boltgun codpiece.
Look, all I'm saying is that it makes sense to have to track the individual number of rockets left in a cyclone missile launcher. I mean, it only has so many tubes and the practicality of reloading that weapon during combat operations is basically untenable.
Therefore, players should either keep a dice or get out a pad of paper and a pencil (readily available items really) and track their round expenditure for the weapon.
This... Actually doesn't sound unreasonable to me?
I mean, I played Imperial Guard and Tyranids. One army with enough models on the table to choke a cave bear, and another that simply... I guess, ejaculates weaponized parasites, tho, so, uh...
I read a story about some dudes who were playing a historical WWII wargame (it may have been Flames of War, but I don't remember for sure) where one player had some infantry hiding in a wheat field. They were having a debate over whether or not the infantry units would be getting cover from the wheat due to whether they would be obscured from sight of the opposing player's units.
They ended up solving the issue by checking the date of the actual battle that they were playing against the growth/harvesting seasons of the specific type of wheat in that specific territory that the soldiers were hiding in to determine what height it would have been at during that specific battle.
Part of me thinks that that is the most ridiculous rulesnazi bullshit ever, but there is definitely a part of me who thinks it is fucking awesome that there are people in this hobby that are grognardy enough to actually track down how tall a stalk of wheat was during a battle that took place over 80 years ago and cross reference that data with the average height of a crouching adult male to determine whether or not these plastic toys over here could shoot at these other plastic toys over there. I don't think it would be very entertaining to keep track of what percentage the battery is on each Lasgun being held by an army of 100 guardsmen, but sometimes the fun is in the minutiae.
I read a story about some dudes who were playing a historical WWII wargame (it may have been Flames of War, but I don't remember for sure) where one player had some infantry hiding in a wheat field. They were having a debate over whether or not the infantry units would be getting cover from the wheat due to whether they would be obscured from sight of the opposing player's units.
They ended up solving the issue by checking the date of the actual battle that they were playing against the growth/harvesting seasons of the specific type of wheat in that specific territory that the soldiers were hiding in to determine what height it would have been at during that specific battle.
Part of me thinks that that is the most ridiculous rulesnazi bullshit ever, but there is definitely a part of me who thinks it is fucking awesome that there are people in this hobby that are grognardy enough to actually track down how tall a stalk of wheat was during a battle that took place over 80 years ago and cross reference that data with the average height of a crouching adult male to determine whether or not these plastic toys over here could shoot at these other plastic toys over there. I don't think it would be very entertaining to keep track of what percentage the battery is on each Lasgun being held by an army of 100 guardsmen, but sometimes the fun is in the minutiae.
Advanced squad leader has wheat fields based on month, and panzerfaust available based on year of the war.
Posts
Oh I agree, but it's a book keeping hassle, you need to keep track of who got shot and who fled per squad for your unit that has a 50/50 chance of bringing one guy back? Plus, by definition, you're only taking morale losses if you took real losses earlier, so there'll always be a legitimate model to resuscitate.
It only matters in a rare edge case where you lose a bunch of guys with bolters to shooting and are forced to pick a special weapons guy for the morale loss, which either won't happen in a small squad with SM LD and a big squad would have more bolter bros to select?
I don't know, for an Apothecary at least it seems like something everyone will just forget about, but I agree for Necrons it's a big deal.
Yes, but "it makes sense" so let's have a complicated, fiddly, hard to track rule that will lead to arguments and debates over minor things is the exact kind of thing that the 8th edition ruleset was designed to avoid.
Vehicles having armor facing "makes sense" but it was fiddly and annoying so it got ditched. This is also fiddly and annoying.
Also, holy hell that is a huge nerf to Necrons. At least they've got that rock solid leadership 10. But a necro player absolutely has to track all losses due to morale now as they are likely to regain all the models they've lost in a unit over the course of the game. How annoying.
Honestly, I think this was done strictly as a Necron nerf but someone decided it's only fair to apply to Apothecaries also.
Yes, you CAN put a dice next to every necron unit to keep track, but it would be easier not having to keep track of that at all.
The rules dont care about armour facing, firing arcs, wither a marine is hit with a heavybolter or autocannon, but it for some reason cares HOW a unit was "slain"? For crying out loud, the FAQ also clarifies that Poxwalkers can generate zombies out of necrons, who then also resurrect anyways! Why? Because its easier to just run the rules in a simple and consistent way and not fuss to much about specific edge cases. Like whether an apothecary is reviving a "dead" marine, or a marine with shellshock. Gamewise, it's the same damn thing, why draw the line here?.
For a game where everything's been abstracted for the sake of faster and easier gameplay, this is a step in the wrong direction.
Preach it brother man!
Stratagem: Rally the Troops {2}:
If your Warlord is still alive, choose a unit on the table and make a morale test for it. Instead of the usual results for this test, one model that previously fled is returned to the unit for each point it passes the test by and the unit doesn't lose any further models if it fails.
What do you think?
I may end up using it in a custom scenario even if I can't make it stick as a house rule.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
Works well for Necrons who will keep getting up, but will probably be annoying for marines.
All he can do is recover the geneseed for the rest of the turn. No shooting, running, or fighting if he fails. He can try the following turn.
This is, of course, assuming that the unit has only lost a single marine
You've never tried to fill a dead body with your geneseed?
My Shield Drones now get to make a 5+ FNP when they lose a wound, this brings them up from totally useless to pretty good
Bravely Default / 3DS Friend Code = 3394-3571-1609
I do agree with this, for marines it's not really that much book keeping (like we said your only going to use it a handful of times) but for necrons it sounds like a real pain, especially as the necron lists I've seen have been playing huge blobs of guys.
I guess the easiest way is to mark each squad somehow (number the bases) and just have a dead and ran away pile seperate when you take em off the table.
The dice on the table is the easiest. For causalities from fighting/shooting you increase the die. For those that run away you don't.
You already have a shit ton of d6s for this. Basically a wound counter for troops.
It's a stupid 'clarification' that should have just been left as-is. This is yet another example of shit they figured out in AoS and is working just fine but for some reason they decided to make it terrible for 40k.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
Considering they completely reversed shit with the shield drones.
I wouldn't be surprised if it got changed back based on feedback and a few upcoming big tournaments.
For example, with CP I'm planning to model objective markers that I'll treat as CP. In the couple 8th edition games I've played already I've more than once seen someone at the table accidentally roll their CP die.
Therefore, players should either keep a dice or get out a pad of paper and a pencil (readily available items really) and track their round expenditure for the weapon.
If that battle is taking place on a particularly dusty planet, apply a -.126 cumulative modifier for each phase that has passed so far in all game turns. Keep track of any phases in which that marine has been embarked on a transport as those phases will not add to the modifier.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
I was going to make a joke about ticking off power Armour DMG boxes but then I thought a board game with like 2-3 marines with a battletech style sheet, with ammo, Armory DMG, like critical wounds, against like cultists who go down super fast, but you have to conserve bolter ammo and stuff.
Would be cool as shit.
Play the Deathwatch RPG from FFG, basically exactly what you're asking for.
I'm still waiting for the Adeptus Titanicus relaunch.
How I read it first time.
You would. Answer you pm's.
This... Actually doesn't sound unreasonable to me?
I mean, I played Imperial Guard and Tyranids. One army with enough models on the table to choke a cave bear, and another that simply... I guess, ejaculates weaponized parasites, tho, so, uh...
As you were.
They ended up solving the issue by checking the date of the actual battle that they were playing against the growth/harvesting seasons of the specific type of wheat in that specific territory that the soldiers were hiding in to determine what height it would have been at during that specific battle.
Part of me thinks that that is the most ridiculous rulesnazi bullshit ever, but there is definitely a part of me who thinks it is fucking awesome that there are people in this hobby that are grognardy enough to actually track down how tall a stalk of wheat was during a battle that took place over 80 years ago and cross reference that data with the average height of a crouching adult male to determine whether or not these plastic toys over here could shoot at these other plastic toys over there. I don't think it would be very entertaining to keep track of what percentage the battery is on each Lasgun being held by an army of 100 guardsmen, but sometimes the fun is in the minutiae.
Advanced squad leader has wheat fields based on month, and panzerfaust available based on year of the war.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705