Well, whether or not it's actually a dragon is debatable. We never actually see it.
And he said something like the dragon was not what he expected in passing so not really sure what exactly he overcame to get the iron fist.
And it seems like he only got half of it at that, maybe even less considering he had improved a bit by the end of the season. The footage of the Iron Fist from the Chinese was a guy with two glowing fists of fury.
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
Well, whether or not it's actually a dragon is debatable. We never actually see it.
And he said something like the dragon was not what he expected in passing so not really sure what exactly he overcame to get the iron fist.
And it seems like he only got half of it at that, maybe even less considering he had improved a bit by the end of the season. The footage of the Iron Fist from the Chinese was a guy with two glowing fists of fury.
While that Iron Fist fighting was above Danny's, he didn't gain any advantages despite having two Iron FIsts. All he was doing was hitting his opponents with hands which are lightened up. Danny did this with one Iron Fist.
The fight choreography is improved, they hired the fight coordinator from Black Panther (Clayton Barber) to assist. The actors are given more time to rehearse their stunts, as well.
There's supposed to be an impressive scene where Iron Fist "fights" an armoured truck. He knocks the front right off with a hit.
IF wears a yellow bandana over his mouth and a hood, to better emulate his comic book costume, so they may be able to get stuntmen for fight scenes rather than Finn doing it himself.
Alice Eve shows up as Typhoid Mary, who will have her multiple personalities. Alice said in a panel at SDDC that she liked the discipline that came with her martial arts training.
Colleen Wing and Misty Knight have a "punk rock" fight scene together.
The show runner, Raven Metzer, wants to explore K'un L'un in are detail.
Danny will fight Davos in K'un L'un in a flashback. Maybe he's the big bad?
Ward and Joy Meechum are back.
These were some scenes they showed at San Diego.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Yeah this is going to have to be amazing for me to watch it. Like, it has to get rave reviews. I haven't even watched the second seasons of JJ or LC (or the first season of Punisher, for that matter) due to the dumpster fire that was Iron Fist and the mediocrity of The Defenders.
Yeah this is going to have to be amazing for me to watch it. Like, it has to get rave reviews. I haven't even watched the second seasons of JJ or LC (or the first season of Punisher, for that matter) due to the dumpster fire that was Iron Fist and the mediocrity of The Defenders.
Did you see Luke Cage Season 2, Episode 10? It was awesome ... that's as much as I can say without being accused of being too open with spoilers again. Even then though, if that is the bar Iron Fist has to jump over, I don't think you are going to be watching Iron Fist season 2.
I am really looking forward to seeing how Ward and Joy's relationship breaks down in season 2 with them essentially flipping sides and outlooks over the course of season 1. Also if this Iron Fist guy is going to be in the show anyway then I guess he can punch something now and then, if he can do it without looking stupid.
Yeah this is going to have to be amazing for me to watch it. Like, it has to get rave reviews. I haven't even watched the second seasons of JJ or LC (or the first season of Punisher, for that matter) due to the dumpster fire that was Iron Fist and the mediocrity of The Defenders.
Did you see Luke Cage Season 2, Episode 10? It was awesome ... that's as much as I can say without being accused of being too open with spoilers again. Even then though, if that is the bar Iron Fist has to jump over, I don't think you are going to be watching Iron Fist season 2.
I didn't watch Iron Fist season 1, but that episode of Cage made me want to watch it. Does Claire/Rosario Dawson feature heavily in Iron Fist? I am pretty sick of the recurring supporting cast of these shows, as if the shows were not already similar enough.
I didn't care for The Defenders but that had bigger problems than any one character.
Monsieur T on
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
I'm just at the point now where they clearly didn't value my time in making IF and Defenders so I'm not going to value their product. This probably makes me come across like a dick in this thread (because I could just not say it at all here) so I apologize.
Yeah this is going to have to be amazing for me to watch it. Like, it has to get rave reviews. I haven't even watched the second seasons of JJ or LC (or the first season of Punisher, for that matter) due to the dumpster fire that was Iron Fist and the mediocrity of The Defenders.
Did you see Luke Cage Season 2, Episode 10? It was awesome ... that's as much as I can say without being accused of being too open with spoilers again. Even then though, if that is the bar Iron Fist has to jump over, I don't think you are going to be watching Iron Fist season 2.
I didn't watch Iron Fist season 1, but that episode of Cage made me want to watch it. Does Claire/Rosario Dawson feature heavily in Iron Fist? I am pretty sick of the recurring supporting cast of these shows, as if the shows were not already similar enough.
I didn't care for The Defenders but that had bigger problems than any one character.
Claire is a fairly large part of Iron Fist. She is one of the few shining stars in that drek.
Gotta say I disagree with you about the recurring cast. Every time there's a Trish radio spot or Foggy shows up as somebody's lawyer or Karen Page gets a byline or Jeri Hogarth gets to chew some scenery I feel like the entire Netflix project got something right. The shared characters make the world feel more lived in and familiar.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Iron Fist could have done away with its main protagonist entirely and been a significantly better show for it. The fact that the series spends so much time on its supporting cast is indicative that the people making it proabably thought the same.
Iron Fist could have done away with its main protagonist entirely and been a significantly better show for it. The fact that the series spends so much time on its supporting cast is indicative that the people making it proabably thought the same.
The Colleen Wing/Misty Knight Power Hour would have been a way more interesting show.
While a continued complaint made about the Netflix shows is that they always feel like they're padding out to fill the 13 episode order, the first season of Iron Fist is by far the most egregious offender. The entirety of Season 1 should have been compressed down into the first four to six episodes.
Yup. If they announced that they were cutting the Netflix Marvel series down to 6-8 episodes each, that'd be the best news I could imagine for these series. Sure, you can still screw up shorter stories, but even the series I liked best suffered from a bad story/length ratio. You can tell worthwhile longer stories, but they've yet to show that they can do so, so I'd prefer them to go for a shorter format and hone their skills on that.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
I'm just at the point now where they clearly didn't value my time in making IF and Defenders so I'm not going to value their product. This probably makes me come across like a dick in this thread (because I could just not say it at all here) so I apologize.
Thing is ... Scott Buck is gone. That dude didn't value anyone's time, in Iron Fist and *shudders* Inhumans.
Defenders was much better than what he was offering up and Luke Cage Season 2 was even better than that IMHO.
But you didn't like Defenders, so you might as well disregard my previous "This is awesome!" and skip Iron Fist season 2 regardless of if it follows up on that. I personally don't think its reasonable to expect any of the Netflix stuff to jump higher than Defenders, really, which had some very cool moving pieces. For me, it seems I will enjoy the slow moments as well as the action, all 10-13 episodes of it, so I can't help but disagree with the idea that the story should be compressed and sped up, that sounds like either a sloppy writer or a production that doesn't trust in the charisma of the characters in their smaller moments, I enjoy the performances of so many of the actors when their scenes are allowed to breath because the director and crew are supporting them. Some of my favourite moments are just two of the characters buddying up or wrenching the emotional heart out of each other, not a single punch thrown, which for me enhances when those punches are thrown.
If this thread is just going devolve into retreading how terrible the first season was while ignoring all the ways the next production is showing way more care than Scott Buck has, I'm probably going to have to sit this thread out, it was like a sucker punch of indigestion to the gut reading it last season, full on the sourest of sour grapes.
If this thread is just going devolve into retreading how terrible the first season was while ignoring all the ways the next production is showing way more care than Scott Buck has, I'm probably going to have to sit this thread out, it was like a sucker punch of indigestion to the gut reading it last season, full on the sourest of sour grapes.
Yes, with good reason. This is a crucial development for how Buck got fired, which I'm thankful for.
I doubt he got fired due to anyone's post on any BB, but maybe things are more wonky than I imagine.
It was a culmination of the negative reaction to the season which made him radioactive. Everyone got into dunking on Iron Fist: forums, professional reviewers, you tubers etc. This tainted the Marvel Netflix brand to this day. Buck hasn’t got yet critic proof returns to stay that Michael Bay has so he gotta go.
I don't think that the Marvel Netflix brand is "tainted... to this day" due to Iron Fist. If you look at the reviews of the post-Iron Fist series, they have their share of positive and negative comments, but most of the criticism is pretty much independent from what was said about Iron Fist. If anything, by and large people were quite positive about Danny Rand's guest episode on Luke Cage S2.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
I don't think that the Marvel Netflix brand is "tainted... to this day" due to Iron Fist. If you look at the reviews of the post-Iron Fist series, they have their share of positive and negative comments, but most of the criticism is pretty much independent from what was said about Iron Fist. If anything, by and large people were quite positive about Danny Rand's guest episode on Luke Cage S2.
All the reviews i read for JJ and LC s02 mentions something negative about Iron Fist. "Marvel comes roaring back with JJ season 2, after the bomb that was Iron Fist, and the lukewarm reception to Defenders" stuff like that.
That's not nearly the same as "tainted... to this day". Obviously they would mention that the most recent solo outing didn't do well, but in what way is saying, "One of the last solo outings was shit, but this is quite good!" aptly reflected by "Oh no, the Marvel Netflix series are tainted by Iron Fist"?
Thirith on
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
JJ season 2 was good stuff. I'm working my way through LC season 2 right now, but not finished yet. So far its good stuff too! (although, I thought LC season 1 was the best until Cottonmouth. Then it went downhill fast)
Iron Fist was shit though. Very much due to how shitty Finn Jones was in the role of the Iron Fist. (and how they gimped Gao from this mysterious badass old lady who even the Kingpin respects in DD into whatever she turned out to be in IF). IF they can fix Finn Jones, I have moderately high hopes for IF season 2.
JJ season 2 was good stuff. I'm working my way through LC season 2 right now, but not finished yet. So far its good stuff too! (although, I thought LC season 1 was the best until Cottonmouth. Then it went downhill fast)
IMO and all but LC2 does not have this problem at all. Which is very encouraging that they can learn.
Iron Fist was shit though. Very much due to how shitty Finn Jones was in the role of the Iron Fist. (and how they gimped Gao from this mysterious badass old lady who even the Kingpin respects in DD into whatever she turned out to be in IF). IF they can fix Finn Jones, I have moderately high hopes for IF season 2.
So review this comment after you finish up LC2. I think it is pretty strong evidence that the issue wasn't Jones.
I'm just at the point now where they clearly didn't value my time in making IF and Defenders so I'm not going to value their product. This probably makes me come across like a dick in this thread (because I could just not say it at all here) so I apologize.
Thing is ... Scott Buck is gone. That dude didn't value anyone's time, in Iron Fist and *shudders* Inhumans.
Defenders was much better than what he was offering up and Luke Cage Season 2 was even better than that IMHO.
But you didn't like Defenders, so you might as well disregard my previous "This is awesome!" and skip Iron Fist season 2 regardless of if it follows up on that. I personally don't think its reasonable to expect any of the Netflix stuff to jump higher than Defenders, really, which had some very cool moving pieces. For me, it seems I will enjoy the slow moments as well as the action, all 10-13 episodes of it, so I can't help but disagree with the idea that the story should be compressed and sped up, that sounds like either a sloppy writer or a production that doesn't trust in the charisma of the characters in their smaller moments, I enjoy the performances of so many of the actors when their scenes are allowed to breath because the director and crew are supporting them. Some of my favourite moments are just two of the characters buddying up or wrenching the emotional heart out of each other, not a single punch thrown, which for me enhances when those punches are thrown.
If this thread is just going devolve into retreading how terrible the first season was while ignoring all the ways the next production is showing way more care than Scott Buck has, I'm probably going to have to sit this thread out, it was like a sucker punch of indigestion to the gut reading it last season, full on the sourest of sour grapes.
I don't think it's a problem to list the ways in which IF S1 sucked and how it got to be that way, while simultaneously being excited about IF S2 and what it seems they are legitimately learning from that experience.
Because if a certain episode from LC S2 is any indication of the direction they're going with Iron Fist, it looks to me like they're responding to every criticism the right way.
Because if a certain episode from LC S2 is any indication of the direction they're going with Iron Fist, it looks to me like they're responding to every criticism the right way.
So LC2 spoilers, if you don't know the episode then maybe skip:
I actually don't think that Danny can be the main character of his own series. Some of this is the role Danny plays there is very much part of a duo with Luke. They constantly challenge each other and shape each other but because Danny is in opposition to Luke there he is far more passive then he can be in his own show. Which is fine and how their relationship works.
So now that I've been all negative I'll be positive: That episode showed a far better understanding of how Danny Rand has worked in comics for decades. That episode makes me think they have a far better chance of making IF2 good because they understand the character then even all the other good news like the fight choreographer and training time.
JJ season 2 was good stuff. I'm working my way through LC season 2 right now, but not finished yet. So far its good stuff too! (although, I thought LC season 1 was the best until Cottonmouth. Then it went downhill fast)
IMO and all but LC2 does not have this problem at all. Which is very encouraging that they can learn.
Iron Fist was shit though. Very much due to how shitty Finn Jones was in the role of the Iron Fist. (and how they gimped Gao from this mysterious badass old lady who even the Kingpin respects in DD into whatever she turned out to be in IF). IF they can fix Finn Jones, I have moderately high hopes for IF season 2.
So review this comment after you finish up LC2. I think it is pretty strong evidence that the issue wasn't Jones.
I will absolutely review this after finishing LC2. I have already gathered that Danny shows up and is cool? Great! That already proves my point and shows that Finn as Danny was the problem, and that they are working on fixing it by making him better at the fight choreography type stuff. The main problem with Iron Fist, my main problem anyway, was that Finn Jones sucked as a kung fu badass motherfucker. If they got Jones trained up better, got better fight choreography or whatever was needed to better convey kung fu badassery then many of my concerns about Iron Fist will be sated.
I didn't even think LC2 was that great, and it got amazing reviews from the sites I read. So I'm going to be very wary of this new season. One thing that does make me optimistic is that they went and got a real villain that they hopefully can stick with for an entire season.
I really wish the Marvel Netflix shows had the guts to cut down their episode count a bit. Both Luke Cage seasons would have been much better as tight 6 or 8 episode seasons.
I only have one more episode to go in Luke Cage season 2!
The episode with Danny was very good. The comradery, the burgeoning partnership and all of that was good. The parts with The Immortal Iron Fist were better than his own show or Defenders, but I'm not still not buying "super awesome kung-fu master who can beat up a gawddamn dragon"
Contrast his performance as a kung fu fighter with Bushmaster and his imperfect, but somehow natural display of capoeira and (even though I know jack all about martial arts other than what I see on TV) it seems to me like Bushmaster's actor pulls it off much more believably than Iron Fist's actor does. BUT! It was better than before, so I still have hope!
That bit actually surprised me. Weren't they all fighting inside dragon bones at the end of Defenders?
Haven't finished LCS1, or started s2, stopped after cottonmouth, but it seemed to me they were having g Lukes play the straight man ala Mac from AoS. Even though he has superpowers and knows of others, he still finds everything g hard to believe and needs to be convinced before accepting things. He could know a ghost, and say with a straight face ghosts are children's stories.
I don't know if that's actual the intent, but he comes across as rhe straight man for comedy sake.
I have no recollection whatsoever of Danny appearing therein. Does that happen? Or is it just a reference to him or something? I guess I can go re-watch s2e10...
I enjoyed Iron Fist. It was dumb and most of the fights were poorly-executed but at least Danny was down with being a super hero. None of this "oh, I'm just a regular guy who is bulletproof/super-strong/has superhuman reflexes! Woe is me that I can't just lead a normal life and ignore my super powers!". He just comes right out of the gate, "I am the ultimate fighter and defender of humanity!" even when it's not really justified.
I see people complaining about Cottonmouth in s1 of Luke Cage. Yeah, his perfromance and the character in general weren't great. But at least by then Luke had quit with his, "Sure, I'm invulnerable and unhappy about the state of affairs but doing anything about it sounds so hard and I'd really rather just sweep up the floors in this barber shop..."
Iron Fist s1 was bad. I recognize that. It certainly fucked up the mystique of any of the bad guys. But at least Danny wants to be a hero.
I see people complaining about Cottonmouth in s1 of Luke Cage. Yeah, his perfromance and the character in general weren't great. But at least by then Luke had quit with his, "Sure, I'm invulnerable and unhappy about the state of affairs but doing anything about it sounds so hard and I'd really rather just sweep up the floors in this barber shop..."
I'm assuming you meant Diamondback there? Because from the comments I've seen, Cottonmouth was the highlight of the season.
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I have no recollection whatsoever of Danny appearing therein. Does that happen? Or is it just a reference to him or something? I guess I can go re-watch s2e10...
I enjoyed Iron Fist. It was dumb and most of the fights were poorly-executed but at least Danny was down with being a super hero. None of this "oh, I'm just a regular guy who is bulletproof/super-strong/has superhuman reflexes! Woe is me that I can't just lead a normal life and ignore my super powers!". He just comes right out of the gate, "I am the ultimate fighter and defender of humanity!" even when it's not really justified.
I see people complaining about Cottonmouth in s1 of Luke Cage. Yeah, his perfromance and the character in general weren't great. But at least by then Luke had quit with his, "Sure, I'm invulnerable and unhappy about the state of affairs but doing anything about it sounds so hard and I'd really rather just sweep up the floors in this barber shop..."
Iron Fist s1 was bad. I recognize that. It certainly fucked up the mystique of any of the bad guys. But at least Danny wants to be a hero.
No, no. You have that wrong, sir. Cottonmouth was the best. His character was great and his portrayal (by a man who later would go on to win the Best Actor Oscar for a movie roll) was great!
JJ season 2 was good stuff. I'm working my way through LC season 2 right now, but not finished yet. So far its good stuff too! (although, I thought LC season 1 was the best until Cottonmouth. Then it went downhill fast)
IMO and all but LC2 does not have this problem at all. Which is very encouraging that they can learn.
Iron Fist was shit though. Very much due to how shitty Finn Jones was in the role of the Iron Fist. (and how they gimped Gao from this mysterious badass old lady who even the Kingpin respects in DD into whatever she turned out to be in IF). IF they can fix Finn Jones, I have moderately high hopes for IF season 2.
So review this comment after you finish up LC2. I think it is pretty strong evidence that the issue wasn't Jones.
I will absolutely review this after finishing LC2. I have already gathered that Danny shows up and is cool? Great! That already proves my point and shows that Finn as Danny was the problem, and that they are working on fixing it by making him better at the fight choreography type stuff. The main problem with Iron Fist, my main problem anyway, was that Finn Jones sucked as a kung fu badass motherfucker. If they got Jones trained up better, got better fight choreography or whatever was needed to better convey kung fu badassery then many of my concerns about Iron Fist will be sated.
I mean, Finn was the problem if you somehow accept that Scott Buck wasn't the problem. Because when you boil it down, Scott Buck was the problem all along. As are the Marvel Netflix decision-makers.
Without Scott Buck, Finn probably doesn't get casted. Without Scott Buck, even if Finn was casted, he would have been given more than a couple weeks to train for the action scenes. Without Scott Buck the show wouldn't have been a giant train wreck. Without Scott Buck there might be a coherent plot regarding the drugs and the going to China and other crap that was horribly shot, horribly conceived, and horribly resolved. And a lot of that is still on Marvel Netflix's shoulders for not deciding collectively what the fuck The Hand were, or what their motivations or agenda even were. Not to mention hiring showrunners and directors exclusively known for being able to produce a shitty TV show on the cheap. I mean, Iron Fist was exactly what they paid for. It exists, people watched it, job done.
Mind you, I'm not defending the Finn casting, I think they could have gone in lots of other directions and have been better for it. But he's who we've got now, his appearance on LC S2 was pretty great, and frankly none of S1 is his fault.
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And it seems like he only got half of it at that, maybe even less considering he had improved a bit by the end of the season. The footage of the Iron Fist from the Chinese was a guy with two glowing fists of fury.
While that Iron Fist fighting was above Danny's, he didn't gain any advantages despite having two Iron FIsts. All he was doing was hitting his opponents with hands which are lightened up. Danny did this with one Iron Fist.
1:56
Rumors about what'll happen in the new season.
There's supposed to be an impressive scene where Iron Fist "fights" an armoured truck. He knocks the front right off with a hit.
IF wears a yellow bandana over his mouth and a hood, to better emulate his comic book costume, so they may be able to get stuntmen for fight scenes rather than Finn doing it himself.
Alice Eve shows up as Typhoid Mary, who will have her multiple personalities. Alice said in a panel at SDDC that she liked the discipline that came with her martial arts training.
Colleen Wing and Misty Knight have a "punk rock" fight scene together.
The show runner, Raven Metzer, wants to explore K'un L'un in are detail.
Danny will fight Davos in K'un L'un in a flashback. Maybe he's the big bad?
Ward and Joy Meechum are back.
These were some scenes they showed at San Diego.
Did you see Luke Cage Season 2, Episode 10? It was awesome ... that's as much as I can say without being accused of being too open with spoilers again. Even then though, if that is the bar Iron Fist has to jump over, I don't think you are going to be watching Iron Fist season 2.
Right, it was a rave review, one as unspoilery as I could come up with, one word: Awesome. Will they see it? *shrugs*
I didn't watch Iron Fist season 1, but that episode of Cage made me want to watch it. Does Claire/Rosario Dawson feature heavily in Iron Fist? I am pretty sick of the recurring supporting cast of these shows, as if the shows were not already similar enough.
I didn't care for The Defenders but that had bigger problems than any one character.
Claire is a fairly large part of Iron Fist. She is one of the few shining stars in that drek.
Gotta say I disagree with you about the recurring cast. Every time there's a Trish radio spot or Foggy shows up as somebody's lawyer or Karen Page gets a byline or Jeri Hogarth gets to chew some scenery I feel like the entire Netflix project got something right. The shared characters make the world feel more lived in and familiar.
The Colleen Wing/Misty Knight Power Hour would have been a way more interesting show.
Let's call it "KnightWing."
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Thing is ... Scott Buck is gone. That dude didn't value anyone's time, in Iron Fist and *shudders* Inhumans.
Defenders was much better than what he was offering up and Luke Cage Season 2 was even better than that IMHO.
But you didn't like Defenders, so you might as well disregard my previous "This is awesome!" and skip Iron Fist season 2 regardless of if it follows up on that. I personally don't think its reasonable to expect any of the Netflix stuff to jump higher than Defenders, really, which had some very cool moving pieces. For me, it seems I will enjoy the slow moments as well as the action, all 10-13 episodes of it, so I can't help but disagree with the idea that the story should be compressed and sped up, that sounds like either a sloppy writer or a production that doesn't trust in the charisma of the characters in their smaller moments, I enjoy the performances of so many of the actors when their scenes are allowed to breath because the director and crew are supporting them. Some of my favourite moments are just two of the characters buddying up or wrenching the emotional heart out of each other, not a single punch thrown, which for me enhances when those punches are thrown.
If this thread is just going devolve into retreading how terrible the first season was while ignoring all the ways the next production is showing way more care than Scott Buck has, I'm probably going to have to sit this thread out, it was like a sucker punch of indigestion to the gut reading it last season, full on the sourest of sour grapes.
Yes, with good reason. This is a crucial development for how Buck got fired, which I'm thankful for.
It was a culmination of the negative reaction to the season which made him radioactive. Everyone got into dunking on Iron Fist: forums, professional reviewers, you tubers etc. This tainted the Marvel Netflix brand to this day. Buck hasn’t got yet critic proof returns to stay that Michael Bay has so he gotta go.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
All the reviews i read for JJ and LC s02 mentions something negative about Iron Fist. "Marvel comes roaring back with JJ season 2, after the bomb that was Iron Fist, and the lukewarm reception to Defenders" stuff like that.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Iron Fist was shit though. Very much due to how shitty Finn Jones was in the role of the Iron Fist. (and how they gimped Gao from this mysterious badass old lady who even the Kingpin respects in DD into whatever she turned out to be in IF). IF they can fix Finn Jones, I have moderately high hopes for IF season 2.
IMO and all but LC2 does not have this problem at all. Which is very encouraging that they can learn.
So review this comment after you finish up LC2. I think it is pretty strong evidence that the issue wasn't Jones.
I don't think it's a problem to list the ways in which IF S1 sucked and how it got to be that way, while simultaneously being excited about IF S2 and what it seems they are legitimately learning from that experience.
Because if a certain episode from LC S2 is any indication of the direction they're going with Iron Fist, it looks to me like they're responding to every criticism the right way.
So LC2 spoilers, if you don't know the episode then maybe skip:
So now that I've been all negative I'll be positive: That episode showed a far better understanding of how Danny Rand has worked in comics for decades. That episode makes me think they have a far better chance of making IF2 good because they understand the character then even all the other good news like the fight choreographer and training time.
I will absolutely review this after finishing LC2. I have already gathered that Danny shows up and is cool? Great! That already proves my point and shows that Finn as Danny was the problem, and that they are working on fixing it by making him better at the fight choreography type stuff. The main problem with Iron Fist, my main problem anyway, was that Finn Jones sucked as a kung fu badass motherfucker. If they got Jones trained up better, got better fight choreography or whatever was needed to better convey kung fu badassery then many of my concerns about Iron Fist will be sated.
I really wish the Marvel Netflix shows had the guts to cut down their episode count a bit. Both Luke Cage seasons would have been much better as tight 6 or 8 episode seasons.
The episode with Danny was very good. The comradery, the burgeoning partnership and all of that was good. The parts with The Immortal Iron Fist were better than his own show or Defenders, but I'm not still not buying "super awesome kung-fu master who can beat up a gawddamn dragon"
Contrast his performance as a kung fu fighter with Bushmaster and his imperfect, but somehow natural display of capoeira and (even though I know jack all about martial arts other than what I see on TV) it seems to me like Bushmaster's actor pulls it off much more believably than Iron Fist's actor does. BUT! It was better than before, so I still have hope!
I hope the other Defenders get to meet the/a dragon.
PSN / Xbox / NNID: Fodder185
Haven't finished LCS1, or started s2, stopped after cottonmouth, but it seemed to me they were having g Lukes play the straight man ala Mac from AoS. Even though he has superpowers and knows of others, he still finds everything g hard to believe and needs to be convinced before accepting things. He could know a ghost, and say with a straight face ghosts are children's stories.
I don't know if that's actual the intent, but he comes across as rhe straight man for comedy sake.
I enjoyed Iron Fist. It was dumb and most of the fights were poorly-executed but at least Danny was down with being a super hero. None of this "oh, I'm just a regular guy who is bulletproof/super-strong/has superhuman reflexes! Woe is me that I can't just lead a normal life and ignore my super powers!". He just comes right out of the gate, "I am the ultimate fighter and defender of humanity!" even when it's not really justified.
I see people complaining about Cottonmouth in s1 of Luke Cage. Yeah, his perfromance and the character in general weren't great. But at least by then Luke had quit with his, "Sure, I'm invulnerable and unhappy about the state of affairs but doing anything about it sounds so hard and I'd really rather just sweep up the floors in this barber shop..."
Iron Fist s1 was bad. I recognize that. It certainly fucked up the mystique of any of the bad guys. But at least Danny wants to be a hero.
I'm assuming you meant Diamondback there? Because from the comments I've seen, Cottonmouth was the highlight of the season.
PSN / Xbox / NNID: Fodder185
You need to rewatch episode 10, yes...badly...
I mean, Finn was the problem if you somehow accept that Scott Buck wasn't the problem. Because when you boil it down, Scott Buck was the problem all along. As are the Marvel Netflix decision-makers.
Without Scott Buck, Finn probably doesn't get casted. Without Scott Buck, even if Finn was casted, he would have been given more than a couple weeks to train for the action scenes. Without Scott Buck the show wouldn't have been a giant train wreck. Without Scott Buck there might be a coherent plot regarding the drugs and the going to China and other crap that was horribly shot, horribly conceived, and horribly resolved. And a lot of that is still on Marvel Netflix's shoulders for not deciding collectively what the fuck The Hand were, or what their motivations or agenda even were. Not to mention hiring showrunners and directors exclusively known for being able to produce a shitty TV show on the cheap. I mean, Iron Fist was exactly what they paid for. It exists, people watched it, job done.
Mind you, I'm not defending the Finn casting, I think they could have gone in lots of other directions and have been better for it. But he's who we've got now, his appearance on LC S2 was pretty great, and frankly none of S1 is his fault.