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[Iron Fist] The Last Defender

Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
edited April 1 in Debate and/or Discourse
How spoilers work - title the ep you're watching and spoil the contents. I know it's different format from what we usually do with Netflix centric threads like this posters have found this suitable since this isn't airing every week like a typical tv show.



Iron Fist has taken off to a rocky start, here are the basics to what the series has to offer. The descriptions are copied shamelessly from wikipedia.

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Danny Rand/Iron Fist (Finn Jones)
A billionaire Buddhist monk and martial arts expert proficient in kung-fu, with the ability to call upon the power of the Iron Fist. Jones described the character as "someone struggling to find his identity" explaining, "He's a superhero with a real heart but has spiritual elements as well. I think ... there's this [contradiction] of on one hand he's from a very wealthy family, he's a billionaire, on the other hand he's been in this world of K’un-Lun for a long time where he's learned kung fu and Buddhist philosophy." Jones, an orphan like Rand, was able to understand "that need for something more... that loneliness that Danny feels," given Rand lost his parents at the age of ten and for the last 15 years has been living under harsh conditions in a monastery. Jones continued, "Danny gets really stressed and really pissed off sometimes, and I understand that. I think it's the alienation aspect, but also that optimism. I understand Danny's optimism and where that comes from." Marvel Television head Jeph Loeb noted that Rand is younger than Marvel's other Defenders, and that he "has a certain kind of optimism and hope about him that brings a certain thing to" the team. In preparation for the role, Jones studied kung fu, wushu and tai chi, along with weight training, Buddhist philosophy and meditation. In response to the character being criticized as a white savior, showrunner Scott Buck said that he had approached the character without knowing of the racial issues surrounding him and his comic history, and that Rand is "trying to save himself, if anything," a sentiment Jones agreed with.

This is the same Scott Buck who did this to Dexter.



And he's the show runner for Inhumans. Dammit, Marvel.

henwick.jpeg

Colleen Wing AKA that cool female Rebel pilot from The Force Awakens (Jessica Henwick)
An ally of Rand who runs her own martial arts dojo in New York City. Henwick felt the most defining word for Wing was "alone", saying, "She doesn't want to be anyone's love interest and open herself up in that way." Henwick also tried "to pull out that sort of very dry humor that [Wing] has, and that no bullshit New Yorker demeanor" from the comics version in her portrayal.

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Joy Meachum AKA Is that Laurel from Arrow?/Jessica Stoup
The daughter of Harold and childhood acquaintance of Rand, whose work building up Rand Enterprises with her brother Ward is threatened to be undone with Rand's return. Stroup said that Joy "absolutely loves" Rand, and his return to New York is "like this rebirth of what she once was, and she gets to ask these questions about herself because he’s posing them to her." Stroup said that Joy would initially be unsure whether Rand is who he says he is.

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Ward Meachum AKA Corporate Douchebag #26258/Tom Pelphrey
The son of Harold and childhood acquaintance of Rand, whose work building up Rand Enterprises with his sister Joy is threatened to be undone with Rand's return. Ward is a character from the comics, though Pelphrey noted "we’re not necessarily beholden to representing him [in the series] exactly as he appears in the comic book." Stroup said that Ward would experience some "male angst" on Rand's return, because "Ward would have been the one who picked on [Rand] when he was little so as pure and innocent and great as Iron Fist is, he comes in and he causes some problems" there.

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Claire Temple AKA She Knows All The Defenders/ Rosario Dawson
A former nurse who joins Colleen's dojo. Knows Daredevil, Luke Cage and Jessica Jones.

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Posts

  • KashaarKashaar Low OrbitRegistered User regular
    edited March 17
    Still hyped to watch this - of all the Marvel Netflix shows, IF is the one I was looking forward to the most since they were first announced.
    Will probably binge it with the gf as far as we get on Sunday.

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  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    The show is actually shot pretty well. There are some pretty striking scenes that are excellently framed. They're definitely trying to find interesting ways to establish scenes and position the characters.

    I like the music. It does a good job of building up the suspense and action.

    I like all the actors playing the Meachums. Even though the dialogue is bleh, the actors do commit to the characters. You do get a good sense of their inner conflict.

    Colleen Wing is good, it's a nuanced performance. She's good at getting across the sense that she's trying to be nice while her patience is wearing thin.

    I don't know about Finn Jones. The writing for Danny is so bad and the direction doesn't seem too good either. I don't know if he can do better with better writing and direction.

    The martial arts is really hit or miss. It's a different style of fighting than Daredevil. It's not as visceral and brutal. It's supposed to be more acrobatic and elegant. And in some instances, it manages to do that, but a lot of other times it's just bad. There are hits that are too slow or look like they barely connect. Into the Badlands was just released on Netflix, and some of the fights in Iron Fist are just embarrassing compared to that show.

    But the writing is the worst part of the show and really brings everything else down. Characters just do stupid nonsensical things without any explanation. Danny acts less like a person from a different culture who doesn't understand American society and more like a robot that's just learning to be human.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited March 17
    From the MCU thread:
    shryke wrote: »
    Watched the first episode. Thought it was good.

    Story is interesting and they are taking a lot longer then I'd though to move past the basic setup which is good because it would feel kinda silly to have that wiped away instantly. Enough hints at some weird shit going on that I wanna see where it goes next.

    The action I thought was really good so far.

    And I really like Finn Jones' Danny Rand so far. He's interesting. He's kinda naive and a bit child-like but there's a sense of real brewing rage simmering beneath the surface. And it's not just violence since he shoves people around with a sort of happy-go-lucky attitude several times. But you get the impression he's slowly getting very pissed off and that when that happens shit gonna get real or something.

    Anyway, so far I'm in.


    EDIT PS - The casting bullshit thing has also so far just not seemed at all meaningful to the show as it's presented.


    I also watched the second episode. Slower then I was hoping for but I like that they are moving the story along to a different track now and we're basically getting everyone on board with who is who. This is the kind of secret identity shit they really don't need to drag out.

    I don't understand the complaints about people doing stupid or nonsensical things so far.

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  • FroThulhuFroThulhu Registered User regular
    Just finished the first episode

    Best comparison I can make is: starts off better than Arrow or AoS, is more light in tone than DD or JJ, and doesn't appeal to me as naturally as Luke Cage.

    At least two characters are eye-rolling evil, but I'll allow it.

    I didn't walk into this already angry at the show, so if the first six episodes maintain this level, it will be solidly enjoyable for me. It's late, so I'm not up to the task of going into detail, but I wasn't out off by the first episode.

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  • KashaarKashaar Low OrbitRegistered User regular
    Just saw the first few minutes because I couldn't help myself (don't tell my girlfriend), and I get the impression this is trying to be a rather very quiet affair? The meditative chilled out angle on Danny is not what I was expecting, but could be an interesting point of departure.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    After Ep 2 random speculation:
    The Meachum father actually did die and was resurrected by the Hand for some unknown reason. He lives the way he does because he's essentially being held under house arrest by them for unknown reasons. They are the ones that left the hand print and the note on the window. They wanted to know where he left too. That's also why he's so interesting in Danny after he says he's the Hand's sworn enemy. He wants out from under their thumb.

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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Most of the way through the first episode now. I'll say this;

    I can see why some people would be disappointed with the combat scenes so far. They're not Daredevil levels of brutal and exhausting to watch, and they're not Luke Cage levels of super badass yet. What they are doing very effectively, for me at least, though, is conveying the sense that we're watching a supernatural kung fu badass operating at like 15% taking down armed dudes relatively easily. Finn himself doesn't seem like he has a ton of physicality, and they've gone to the Capoera well more than I'd like, but it seems fine so far.

    I'm also enjoying the characterization on Danny so far. It's a mix of attributes from the comics that never really coexisted, a blending of periods of his growth in a lot of ways.

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  • Slacker1913Slacker1913 Registered User regular
    My first first impression - so far the most underwhelming and generic opening sequence of all Marvel Netflix shows.

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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    My first first impression - so far the most underwhelming and generic opening sequence of all Marvel Netflix shows.

    Yeah, I wasn't exactly blown away, either.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    My first first impression - so far the most underwhelming and generic opening sequence of all Marvel Netflix shows.

    None of the opening theme songs are all that good imo, but this one was by far the worst. The visuals of the opening sequence are pretty uninspired too.

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  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Saw the first half hour or so before work. My impression is that I hate everyone except Colleen Wing and the homeless guy Danny condescends at.

    They're trying to do this Robin Williams-in-Fisher King thing with Danny, but ain't nobody Robin Williams but Robin Williams, especially no Finn Jones.

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  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    2 episodes in and the dad is already my favorite character when he's fucking with his assistant. Reminds me of the Owl in DD season 1, snarky asshole. I haven't had any issues with the fights, they aren't DD awesome, but it's just the start.

    In the con column, Ward is vile and hard to look at. I think the 3 other shows already had some direction after 2 episodes, this seems aimless so far. I'm already over the plane crash. Colleen training ninjas in public seems like something a crazy person would do.

    Harry Dresden
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Ep 1
    I liked the title of the episode. I can see where the disappointment comes from, were this on the CW or even ABC I'd say it was ok, and better than the AoS pilot (which was absolutely terrible) except it's not. It's on Netflix and Marvel's brand there is killer, utterly decimates it's ABC shows and even quite a few movies. It's an unfair standard to judge them by but it is what it is. That said, it was difficult to stay engaged - I routinely turned it off to do other things between the minutes (at least the AoS pilot was able to do engaging well).

    Lots of the dialogue isn't memorable, and while there are hints of good charters in there many don't land right. The exceptions being Ward Meachum, who's fun to see eating scenery like a 80's corporate villain and is so damn evil you wonder why his supposedly morally ok sister is ok with him kicking puppies with her right there. Yet she never makes a statement to shut him down, just nods along and moves on like nothing happened - in contrast to her younger self who absolutely knew what a horrible monster he was. Colleen Wing is a rock star, steals every scene she's in. She only has a couple scenes in the show with Danny yet she effortlessly takes control like she's the lead instead. I'd watch a Colleen centric show in a heartbeat just for the pilot. Strangely enough I liked Danny, and Finn's performance became to grow on me but as of now he's still got a long way to go before he feels like he should have got this role.

    The duds have been Joy Beachum, who truly is Laurel from Arrow. She's so bland and normal she feels like she's from a soap opera or a drama than a show like this with her super-villain bro. The actress is ok, maybe she'd be doing better with material that wasn't so predictable and trite. There are others, like the re-occuring security guards and other people but they don't register a big presence. Which, again, is fine for a CW show - not a Marvel/Netflix joint.

    The first scene of the show when Danny returns to New York with literally nothing (which raises a lot of questions about how he got to America in the first place) is so boring. The scene reads like something from a comedy from the 80's in the beginning, it's just that silly. I really don't think they should have been the show with this, IMO they should have done something like showing the plane crash.

    Nothing really happens in this episode. Danny reconnects with people, stalking, wandering around, breaking into friends houses, hypnotizing guard dogs with magic (?) but nothing clicks. The plot only kicks in later in the episode, when Danny's bothered his former fiends at Rand so much that they send security to kill him. Though I did like the scene where Danny talks to Colleen in his dojo. This is amateur hour compared to pilots and bad episodes in the other Marvel Netflix series, there's absolutely no contest.

    Then there's the twist near the end where Ward calls his mysterious backer when Danny pisses him off too much (why wait so long?), ominously. Then we literally see hi take an elevator, walk up steps etc we see everything this takes minutes until he finally arrives at the backer - which is dead father. Said Father is a Norman Osborn/Lionel Luthor knockoff who is more interesting than Ward already. He's smart, ruthless, the steps ahead of his son who he's training or something yet rather than having a discussion like two self respecting super-villains they blabber on for minutes about nothing and it's not that engaging conversation. Exposition, plot set up blah blah except I'm only slightly intrigued by what's going on. If this was Dallas or Suits I'd be less critical, not for Iron Fist.

  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    One episode in... and it's not bad.

    The opening thing is blah, but honestly I skip it after the first episode so who cares. The fighting is very fluid, which makes sense to me as DD was trained to be an assassin, his fighting style is built towards killing your target while IF was trained to be more defensive, so it's just made to take them out without causing a ton of harm.

    My complaint is
    his slips into being a crazy person routine is off-putting. I don't know how I should feel about it, really. I hope they address it in future episodes but this one minute I'm calm the next I'm crashing cars to prove my insane point is odd.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    It doesn't seem aimless to me, but then I feel invested in Danny's attempt to be recognized as who he is. And then in Ep 2, getting himself out of that situation.

    The complaints about the fights are the ones that baffle me so far. I think they are really cool they just are a very different style from DD. They are very fast and flowing and he's mostly just trying to quickly incapacitate people who have no chance against him who he generally isn't really trying to hurt. There's a real sense of how in control he is in a physical fight. He hasn't had a real challenge yet.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    One episode in... and it's not bad.

    The opening thing is blah, but honestly I skip it after the first episode so who cares. The fighting is very fluid, which makes sense to me as DD was trained to be an assassin, his fighting style is built towards killing your target while IF was trained to be more defensive, so it's just made to take them out without causing a ton of harm.

    My complaint is
    his slips into being a crazy person routine is off-putting. I don't know how I should feel about it, really. I hope they address it in future episodes but this one minute I'm calm the next I'm crashing cars to prove my insane point is odd.

    Re: the spoiler
    I kinda feel like that's the point. You see it in the elevator in Ep1. He seems to be barely containing some sort of violence and rage sometimes. He's trying to keep his zen-calm going and it isn't easy sometimes. And he's legitimately annoyed that no one believes him about who he is.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    It doesn't seem aimless to me, but then I feel invested in Danny's attempt to be recognized as who he is. And then in Ep 2, getting himself out of that situation.

    The complaints about the fights are the ones that baffle me so far. I think they are really cool they just are a very different style from DD. They are very fast and flowing and he's mostly just trying to quickly incapacitate people who have no chance against him who he generally isn't really trying to hurt. There's a real sense of how in control he is in a physical fight. He hasn't had a real challenge yet.

    It's not so much about the style, as you're right it suits the character it's just that it is pitiful stuff compared to early DD. He doesn't need a real challenge to do impressive fight scene, DD S 1 spoilers
    like when DD first goes to the docks. He also lacked a strong physical opponent to struggle against so show an inkling of his true power and provide tension.

  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    It doesn't seem aimless to me, but then I feel invested in Danny's attempt to be recognized as who he is. And then in Ep 2, getting himself out of that situation.

    The complaints about the fights are the ones that baffle me so far. I think they are really cool they just are a very different style from DD. They are very fast and flowing and he's mostly just trying to quickly incapacitate people who have no chance against him who he generally isn't really trying to hurt. There's a real sense of how in control he is in a physical fight. He hasn't had a real challenge yet.

    It's not so much about the style, as you're right it suits the character it's just that it is pitiful stuff compared to early DD. He doesn't need a real challenge to do impressive fight scene, DD S 1 spoilers
    like when DD first goes to the docks. He also lacked a strong physical opponent to struggle against so show an inkling of his true power and provide tension.

    I think that's intentional.
    Matt is nowhere near the caliber of fighter Danny is, at least not at the beginning. So he has to work a lot harder to win fights. Danny is barely invested in the fight and just straight clowns 5 armed dudes in rapid succession.

    Matt also wants to hurt people, it's the reason he suited up in the first place. Danny is really careful to only do so when absolutely necessary, and then only enough to end the fight conclusively.

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  • Corporal CarlCorporal Carl Registered User regular
    Ep.3
    Jeri Hogarth! :biggrin:

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    It doesn't seem aimless to me, but then I feel invested in Danny's attempt to be recognized as who he is. And then in Ep 2, getting himself out of that situation.

    The complaints about the fights are the ones that baffle me so far. I think they are really cool they just are a very different style from DD. They are very fast and flowing and he's mostly just trying to quickly incapacitate people who have no chance against him who he generally isn't really trying to hurt. There's a real sense of how in control he is in a physical fight. He hasn't had a real challenge yet.

    It's not so much about the style, as you're right it suits the character it's just that it is pitiful stuff compared to early DD. He doesn't need a real challenge to do impressive fight scene, DD S 1 spoilers
    like when DD first goes to the docks. He also lacked a strong physical opponent to struggle against so show an inkling of his true power and provide tension.

    I think that's intentional.
    Matt is nowhere near the caliber of fighter Danny is, at least not at the beginning. So he has to work a lot harder to win fights. Danny is barely invested in the fight and just straight clowns 5 armed dudes in rapid succession.

    Matt also wants to hurt people, it's the reason he suited up in the first place. Danny is really careful to only do so when absolutely necessary, and then only enough to end the fight conclusively.
    Except they don't need to give Matt's drive and they haven't shown he's anywhere near early DD's league in skills with the pilot. If anything, he looks weaker since he's not showing a glimpse of what he can do. Those 5 armed dudes wouldn't have been a threat to DD, either. He would have taken them out simultaneously at his weakest on the show. IIRC DD did something like that in the docks example, here Danny had to separate them before clobbering them, which is smart but doesn't show us his power. DD's fight scene also had weight to them, this feels like there's very little tension.

    Danny needn't have to want to hurt people to show him abilities higher than what the pilot showed, merely give him a single opponent where he has to work for a win. From the pilot he acts more like an average action hero who knows a bit of kung fu, not a supernatural powerhouse holding back. The best example I saw in the pilot of his abilities was jumping over the car, and that didn't mesh with what was shown from his fight scenes.

    Luke Cage had a problem with antagonists who weren't a physical problem, too, (except when he manhandled them it was impressive and you knew he was practically a walking WMD) and it's disappointing this trend continued in Iron Fist. Hopefully this improved later on.

  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 17
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    It doesn't seem aimless to me, but then I feel invested in Danny's attempt to be recognized as who he is. And then in Ep 2, getting himself out of that situation.

    The complaints about the fights are the ones that baffle me so far. I think they are really cool they just are a very different style from DD. They are very fast and flowing and he's mostly just trying to quickly incapacitate people who have no chance against him who he generally isn't really trying to hurt. There's a real sense of how in control he is in a physical fight. He hasn't had a real challenge yet.

    It's not so much about the style, as you're right it suits the character it's just that it is pitiful stuff compared to early DD. He doesn't need a real challenge to do impressive fight scene, DD S 1 spoilers
    like when DD first goes to the docks. He also lacked a strong physical opponent to struggle against so show an inkling of his true power and provide tension.

    I think that's intentional.
    Matt is nowhere near the caliber of fighter Danny is, at least not at the beginning. So he has to work a lot harder to win fights. Danny is barely invested in the fight and just straight clowns 5 armed dudes in rapid succession.

    Matt also wants to hurt people, it's the reason he suited up in the first place. Danny is really careful to only do so when absolutely necessary, and then only enough to end the fight conclusively.
    Except they don't need to give Matt's drive and they haven't shown he's anywhere near early DD's league in skills with the pilot. If anything, he looks weaker since he's not showing a glimpse of what he can do. Those 5 armed dudes wouldn't have been a threat to DD, either. He would have taken them out simultaneously at his weakest on the show. IIRC DD did something like that in the docks example, here Danny had to separate them before clobbering them, which is smart but doesn't show us his power. DD's fight scene also had weight to them, this feels like there's very little tension.

    Danny needn't have to want to hurt people to show him abilities higher than what the pilot showed, merely give him a single opponent where he has to work for a win. From the pilot he acts more like an average action hero who knows a bit of kung fu, not a supernatural powerhouse holding back. The best example I saw in the pilot of his abilities was jumping over the car, and that didn't mesh with what was shown from his fight scenes.

    Luke Cage had a problem with antagonists who weren't a physical problem, too, (except when he manhandled them it was impressive and you knew he was practically a walking WMD) and it's disappointing this trend continued in Iron Fist. Hopefully this improved later on.
    I'm talking about the very first fight scene.

    And I disagree completely.
    Daredevil would have taken at least three collapsible batons to the ribs in that scene. Then put a dude through the flatscreen table. Danny just flowed away from them and tangled them up in a way that looked pretty darn effortless.

    It's a difference in what they're trying to show for the character. No threat has yet emerged that has required Danny to power up past maybe 20% of his fighting skill. I'm sure it'll come. Right now, they're doing an excellent job of showing characterization for Danny while establishing that he's something another order or so up in terms of fighting ability.

    Edit:

    I mean, shit. In the scene you're talking about he did
    a disarm spin kick in one smooth motion against a dude with a gun and the drop on him.

    The idea that he's not more impressive than Season 1 Daredevil is a construct of your imagination.

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  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Don't call me Shirley... Registered User regular
    edited March 17
    Episode 1 down. Enjoying it so far. I'm actually enjoying Finn as Danny too.

    Edit: the fights are really well done too, much more skill based than shown in any of the other shows.

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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    I appreciate that the actors are doing a lot of the stunts. It's especially important since no one is wearing masks yet.

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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Brainiac 8 wrote: »
    Edit: the fights are really well done too, much more skill based than shown in any of the other shows.

    Yeah. And the cuts/angles show that off a lot more than anything but maybe early S1 Daredevil. It also keeps them from cutting to prevent something from looking awkward, but I can definitely appreciate the craftsmanship of it. They feel like Jackie Chan fights, albeit without his unbelievable levels of skill.

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  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    It doesn't seem aimless to me, but then I feel invested in Danny's attempt to be recognized as who he is. And then in Ep 2, getting himself out of that situation.

    The complaints about the fights are the ones that baffle me so far. I think they are really cool they just are a very different style from DD. They are very fast and flowing and he's mostly just trying to quickly incapacitate people who have no chance against him who he generally isn't really trying to hurt. There's a real sense of how in control he is in a physical fight. He hasn't had a real challenge yet.

    It's not so much about the style, as you're right it suits the character it's just that it is pitiful stuff compared to early DD. He doesn't need a real challenge to do impressive fight scene, DD S 1 spoilers
    like when DD first goes to the docks. He also lacked a strong physical opponent to struggle against so show an inkling of his true power and provide tension.

    I think that's intentional.
    Matt is nowhere near the caliber of fighter Danny is, at least not at the beginning. So he has to work a lot harder to win fights. Danny is barely invested in the fight and just straight clowns 5 armed dudes in rapid succession.

    Matt also wants to hurt people, it's the reason he suited up in the first place. Danny is really careful to only do so when absolutely necessary, and then only enough to end the fight conclusively.
    Except they don't need to give Matt's drive and they haven't shown he's anywhere near early DD's league in skills with the pilot. If anything, he looks weaker since he's not showing a glimpse of what he can do. Those 5 armed dudes wouldn't have been a threat to DD, either. He would have taken them out simultaneously at his weakest on the show. IIRC DD did something like that in the docks example, here Danny had to separate them before clobbering them, which is smart but doesn't show us his power. DD's fight scene also had weight to them, this feels like there's very little tension.

    Danny needn't have to want to hurt people to show him abilities higher than what the pilot showed, merely give him a single opponent where he has to work for a win. From the pilot he acts more like an average action hero who knows a bit of kung fu, not a supernatural powerhouse holding back. The best example I saw in the pilot of his abilities was jumping over the car, and that didn't mesh with what was shown from his fight scenes.

    Luke Cage had a problem with antagonists who weren't a physical problem, too, (except when he manhandled them it was impressive and you knew he was practically a walking WMD) and it's disappointing this trend continued in Iron Fist. Hopefully this improved later on.
    I'm talking about the very first fight scene.

    And I disagree completely.
    Daredevil would have taken at least three collapsible batons to the ribs in that scene. Then put a dude through the flatscreen table. Danny just flowed away from them and tangled them up in a way that looked pretty darn effortless.

    It's a difference in what they're trying to show for the character. No threat has yet emerged that has required Danny to power up past maybe 20% of his fighting skill. I'm sure it'll come. Right now, they're doing an excellent job of showing characterization for Danny while establishing that he's something another order or so up in terms of fighting ability.

    Edit:

    I mean, shit. In the scene you're talking about he did
    a disarm spin kick in one smooth motion against a dude with a gun and the drop on him.

    The idea that he's not more impressive than Season 1 Daredevil is a construct of your imagination.

    Not spoiler but the conversation is spoiled so...
    The talk of percentage of power sounds like listening to people talking about DBZ.

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  • LoserForHireXLoserForHireX Registered User regular
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Brainiac 8 wrote: »
    Edit: the fights are really well done too, much more skill based than shown in any of the other shows.

    Yeah. And the cuts/angles show that off a lot more than anything but maybe early S1 Daredevil. It also keeps them from cutting to prevent something from looking awkward, but I can definitely appreciate the craftsmanship of it. They feel like Jackie Chan fights, albeit without his unbelievable levels of skill.

    I haven't gotten a chance to watch it yet, but I'm hoping for more technical fights.

    DD fights like a crazy person, he's all in on wild swings and crazy moves

    Luke fights like it's in the street, and he doesn't...care? He's very slow and deliberate but not emotional

    Jessica fights like her life depends on it, there's a certain sort of frenetic energy and desperation.

    I want IF to fight like John Wick, it's all sharp and technical, every action with just enough force, applied in just the right place. Make it look like out of all of them he has the most technical training. Do that and I'm on board.

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  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    edited March 17
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Brainiac 8 wrote: »
    Edit: the fights are really well done too, much more skill based than shown in any of the other shows.

    Yeah. And the cuts/angles show that off a lot more than anything but maybe early S1 Daredevil. It also keeps them from cutting to prevent something from looking awkward, but I can definitely appreciate the craftsmanship of it. They feel like Jackie Chan fights, albeit without his unbelievable levels of skill.

    I haven't gotten a chance to watch it yet, but I'm hoping for more technical fights.

    DD fights like a crazy person, he's all in on wild swings and crazy moves

    Luke fights like it's in the street, and he doesn't...care? He's very slow and deliberate but not emotional

    Jessica fights like her life depends on it, there's a certain sort of frenetic energy and desperation.

    I want IF to fight like John Wick, it's all sharp and technical, every action with just enough force, applied in just the right place. Make it look like out of all of them he has the most technical training. Do that and I'm on board.

    You won't be disappointed.

    Edit: The fighting is quite as violent as DD, kinda on part with the DCTV Arrow fights.

    Grunt's Ghosts on
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Danny definitely fights with an economy of motion you don't typically get from superheroic cinema. I think that's probably where a fair few people are disconnecting from the fight scenes, in fact.

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  • LoserForHireXLoserForHireX Registered User regular
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Danny definitely fights with an economy of motion you don't typically get from superheroic cinema. I think that's probably where a fair few people are disconnecting from the fight scenes, in fact.

    I really liked that about the first John Wick. The shootout in his house was amazing, because he never moved or shot more than he absolutely had to. It was all very precise, technical and practiced. It gave so much characterization right away. Which I'm hoping they can do with Danny.

    I'm almost out of office hours, so I can go home and watch an episode or two

    or four

    or all of them

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  • GatorGator An alligator in Scotland Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    My first first impression - so far the most underwhelming and generic opening sequence of all Marvel Netflix shows.

    None of the opening theme songs are all that good imo

    You take that back about daredevil's opening

    :P

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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Finished Ep 2
    So old man Meechum is in hiding because of the Hand, then?

    Also, these Episode titles are amazing.

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  • Corporal CarlCorporal Carl Registered User regular
    Ep.4:
    Loved the way how the Triad boss was posturing, and then retreated with his tail between his legs when he heard it was The Hand that wanted the pier

    I also like that there's more layering to the characters, Ep.1 just painted them in "the evil guys" colors, but they seem at least a bit more complex...

    Also, Colleen
    her fighting reminds me more of DD, as that she gets really angry and keeps punching and punching

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  • cursedkingcursedking Registered User regular
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Brainiac 8 wrote: »
    Edit: the fights are really well done too, much more skill based than shown in any of the other shows.

    Yeah. And the cuts/angles show that off a lot more than anything but maybe early S1 Daredevil. It also keeps them from cutting to prevent something from looking awkward, but I can definitely appreciate the craftsmanship of it. They feel like Jackie Chan fights, albeit without his unbelievable levels of skill.

    I haven't gotten a chance to watch it yet, but I'm hoping for more technical fights.

    DD fights like a crazy person, he's all in on wild swings and crazy moves

    Luke fights like it's in the street, and he doesn't...care? He's very slow and deliberate but not emotional

    Jessica fights like her life depends on it, there's a certain sort of frenetic energy and desperation.

    I want IF to fight like John Wick, it's all sharp and technical, every action with just enough force, applied in just the right place. Make it look like out of all of them he has the most technical training. Do that and I'm on board.

    i personally do not think that they do this. It's very generic tv show fighting, and it's not shot very well.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Gator wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    My first first impression - so far the most underwhelming and generic opening sequence of all Marvel Netflix shows.

    None of the opening theme songs are all that good imo

    You take that back about daredevil's opening

    :P

    I'll admit it's grown on me over time. Probably my favourite of the songs.

    I think Luke Cage's visuals are the most interesting because it's just such a neat idea.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Danny definitely fights with an economy of motion you don't typically get from superheroic cinema. I think that's probably where a fair few people are disconnecting from the fight scenes, in fact.

    Probably my favourite thing so far from the first 2 episodes is in Ep 1 after he jumps over the wall. It's literally like a second long fight but it's so smooth and cool looking. Just like disarms a guy, turn, kick to the face in one smooth motion.

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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Just starting Ep 4 now. There are two very distinct versions of fight choreography and cinematography in the series so far. When the primary protagonist of a fight is in control and has all of their tools available, it's wide, long shots of entire exchanges between combatants. When the primary protagonist is backfooted or disadvantaged for some reason, it's claustrophobic and choppy. I can't imagine this isn't intentional.

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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    I really love the juxtaposition between Danny's homeless hipster budha look and the Meachum's Gordon Geckoism.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    That preview clip of Coleen in the ring now makes more sense to me. My opinion of it has risen considerably thanks to context from the series so far.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    The fight choreography is just bad.
    Well ok, only half way through the first episode but everything up till now has been mediocre.

    Danny just beat che-spiderman up, wondering if he's going to be a recurring henchman.

    tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    I just don't have the patience for another 13 hour Marvel series that absolutely can't maintain it's momentum.

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