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[PC Build Thread] AMD Radeon Chief Architect Raja Koduri Moves to Intel =O

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    LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    DDR4 can move double the bandwidth of DDR3 with only a 2% increase in latency. It's not a tiny upgrade. DDR3 is also a dead end technology; DDR3 is only going to get more expensive from here as more and more fabs switch over to 4 full time. Most tasks aren't memory bandwidth limited, but the ones that are will see speedups much more significant than 10%.

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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    LD50 wrote: »
    DDR4 can move double the bandwidth of DDR3 with only a 2% increase in latency. It's not a tiny upgrade. DDR3 is also a dead end technology; DDR3 is only going to get more expensive from here as more and more fabs switch over to 4 full time. Most tasks aren't memory bandwidth limited, but the ones that are will see speedups much more significant than 10%.

    I very purposefully did not ever say DDR4 will never be a big upgrade over DDR3. But:

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/8959/ddr4-haswell-e-scaling-review-2133-to-3200-with-gskill-corsair-adata-and-crucial/8

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/asrock-fatal1ty-z170-gaming-k4-d3-ddr4-vs-ddr3,4431-2.html

    http://www.corsair.com/en-us/blog/2015/november/ddr3-vs-ddr4

    https://us.hardware.info/reviews/6678/8/skylake-ddr4-vs-ddr3-review-benchmarks-memory

    Right now, none of the benchmarks I can find are showing DDR4 as even close to double the performance of DDR3. That will almost certainly be the case within a couple years, but right now, DDR4 is a minor-moderate upgrade, and requires a processor that is itself a minor-moderate upgrade unless you are several generations of architecture behind. From a performance/value standpoint, if you don't need to upgrade currently, you're not going to get the best bang for your buck right now.

    At this point I am admittedly sort of arguing just to argue, but it's because I reflexively disagree with any argument of which the crux is "upgrade to the most recent tech or just go play facebook games," because not everyone interested in this hobby has the money or time to constantly update their hardware. I am fortunate enough to, but I know multiple people IRL who have been discouraged from building their own PC precisely because that attitude scared them off because they didn't have the money to rebuild every year or two.

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    I wish I could figure out why every morning my router has stopped working overnight but it never stops working while I'm using it. It's not the PC because I've tested it on multiple devices.

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    Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Is it going to sleep?

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    LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    What router is it?

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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    Hey I want to my
    ILD50 wrote: »
    And we have power cycling! Going to shoot myself

    Guess who's stupid and didn't plug in the cpu

    Bobkins Flymo? To be fair, it's the mistake 100% of system builders make at least once.

    Forgot to install the CPU or forgot to plug in the power leads from the PSU?

    Because I've never done that. Either of them.
    PSU leads. I'm not THAT stupid.

    Also, will an HDD from Windows 7 play well with Windows 10, or does that require formatting?

    YL9WnCY.png
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    ZxerolZxerol for the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't do so i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered User regular
    Hey I want to my
    ILD50 wrote: »
    And we have power cycling! Going to shoot myself

    Guess who's stupid and didn't plug in the cpu

    Bobkins Flymo? To be fair, it's the mistake 100% of system builders make at least once.

    Forgot to install the CPU or forgot to plug in the power leads from the PSU?

    Because I've never done that. Either of them.
    PSU leads. I'm not THAT stupid.

    Also, will an HDD from Windows 7 play well with Windows 10, or does that require formatting?

    It'll read fine. NTFS hasn't fundamentally changed in a long time.

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    jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    3clipse wrote: »
    Believe what you want.

    Don't make the argument that if your rig isn't bleeding edge you may as well be a grandma checking facebook on a public terminal and then be dismissive when someone disagrees.

    That's not the argument he's making, at all.

    DDR3 is nearly dead. Any build going forward would probably be best served/future proofed by going DDR4, especially since they have a completely different form factor. Modern motherboards will be largely DDR4, including ones with new chipsets.

    Going DDR4 is really not much of a cost hike compared to DDR3, either.

    jungleroomx on
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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Some D-Link and Netgears have an idle timer, especially if it's for DSL based internet I think?

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I wish I could figure out why every morning my router has stopped working overnight but it never stops working while I'm using it. It's not the PC because I've tested it on multiple devices.

    Do you have to power cycle it when you get up in the morning? What happens if you leave a computer on and downloading something overnight?

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    tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    DSL?!?!?!?!

    steam_sig.png
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    DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Going DDR4 is really not much of a cost hike compared to DDR3, either.

    This is probably the biggest factor for me. One of my DIMMs is blocked by my CPU cooler, and I'm led to believe most will do that on my motherboard, so I'm left with replacing my 2x4GB DDR3 with 2x8GB sticks.

    2x8GB of DDR3 and DDR4 are the same price - $180 AUD. I just can't bring myself to pay the same price for old tech.

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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    tsmvengy wrote: »
    DSL?!?!?!?!

    DSL can hit up to 1 Gbit/sec currently in certain places. It uses some fancy vector signaling to cancel crosstalk in the old shitty phone cabling (cat1?).

    I think the average speed it tops out at is 250-500 MBit/sec in urban areas.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    tsmvengy wrote: »
    DSL?!?!?!?!

    DSL can hit up to 1 Gbit/sec currently in certain places. It uses some fancy vector signaling to cancel crosstalk in the old shitty phone cabling (cat1?).

    I think the average speed it tops out at is 250-500 MBit/sec in urban areas.

    Only for certain infrastructures of DSL. DSL based on copper back to the phone exchange won't get anywhere near that.

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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Going DDR4 is really not much of a cost hike compared to DDR3, either.

    This is probably the biggest factor for me. One of my DIMMs is blocked by my CPU cooler, and I'm led to believe most will do that on my motherboard, so I'm left with replacing my 2x4GB DDR3 with 2x8GB sticks.

    2x8GB of DDR3 and DDR4 are the same price - $180 AUD. I just can't bring myself to pay the same price for old tech.

    I ended up buying 2x8 DDR3 yesterday, mostly because I have a Z87 and it won't seat a Skylake and I'd really rather not rebuild my whole rig just to go up to DDR4 right now. It'd be $500+ to upgrade components that aren't even close to bottlenecking my system right now, I'd rather just spend $100 on old tech and then get a bigger upgrade down the line when it does become a problem.

    Between when I ordered and paid last night around 10 pm and checked again to confirm this morning, prices went up $20 US.

    o_O
    LD50 wrote: »
    DDR3 is only going to get more expensive from here as more and more fabs switch over to 4 full time.

    It happened so fast!

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    Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    tsmvengy wrote: »
    DSL?!?!?!?!

    DSL can hit up to 1 Gbit/sec currently in certain places. It uses some fancy vector signaling to cancel crosstalk in the old shitty phone cabling (cat1?).

    I think the average speed it tops out at is 250-500 MBit/sec in urban areas.

    Only for certain infrastructures of DSL. DSL based on copper back to the phone exchange won't get anywhere near that.

    If it's faster than 2Mb/s, then sign my ass up!

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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    You'll have to check with the phone company but if it's less than 5mbit/sec it's probably using the old method

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    Is it going to sleep?

    Possibly? It doesn't do it 100% of the time though, if it were a timeout I'd expect it to always do it, assuming that I sleep roughly the same amount of time. It should still be pushing data to my phone and watch either way.
    LD50 wrote: »
    What router is it?
    It's a fancy-ass D Link dual band
    3clipse wrote: »
    Do you have to power cycle it when you get up in the morning? What happens if you leave a computer on and downloading something overnight?

    I'll cue something up tonight and see, but today for some reason it didn't do it. I do have to power cycle it most mornings, a full power off and on followed by leaving it to think for a few minutes. I'm getting really good at the T Rex chrome game.

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    Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Perhaps the modem you're using isn't playing nice. Did the router ever work properly?

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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    could be failing to get DHCP settings from the modem after they expire

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    GrundlestiltskinGrundlestiltskin Behind you!Registered User regular
    So, weird problem. I bought the Dell S2716DG monitor someone here recommended. It's great! Only thing is, when my displays turn off after 15 minutes of inactivity, it doesn't turn back on again on its own; I have to power it down and back up again before it will wake up and be recognized as a display. Putting the computer to sleep and waking it up again doesn't have this issue.

    Thoughts?

    3DS FC: 2079-6424-8577 | PSN: KaeruX65 | Steam: Karulytic | FFXIV: Wonder Boy
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    MugsleyMugsley DelawareRegistered User regular
    I have the same issue. I just power cycle it and deal with it (*sunglasses*).

    I don't have the inclination to hunt down how to fix it, and it's a very minor inconvenience. When I know I'm done using my PC (90% of the time), I put it to sleep before I walk away; so it's a very small window of inconvenience for me. I did try tweaking the sleep/shutdown settings in W10 but that didn't change anything.

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    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    So, weird problem. I bought the Dell S2716DG monitor someone here recommended. It's great! Only thing is, when my displays turn off after 15 minutes of inactivity, it doesn't turn back on again on its own; I have to power it down and back up again before it will wake up and be recognized as a display. Putting the computer to sleep and waking it up again doesn't have this issue.

    Thoughts?

    I had the same issue and it's a quick and easy fix in the settings. I'll look up how I did it when I get home.

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    twmjrtwmjr Registered User regular
    @Grundlestiltskin @Mugsley if I'm remembering right, I think the setting I turned off was in the Menu - Others - Monitor Deep Sleep (Disable)

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    LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    Tube wrote: »
    Is it going to sleep?

    Possibly? It doesn't do it 100% of the time though, if it were a timeout I'd expect it to always do it, assuming that I sleep roughly the same amount of time. It should still be pushing data to my phone and watch either way.
    LD50 wrote: »
    What router is it?
    It's a fancy-ass D Link dual band
    3clipse wrote: »
    Do you have to power cycle it when you get up in the morning? What happens if you leave a computer on and downloading something overnight?

    I'll cue something up tonight and see, but today for some reason it didn't do it. I do have to power cycle it most mornings, a full power off and on followed by leaving it to think for a few minutes. I'm getting really good at the T Rex chrome game.

    I would try doing a factory reset, just to make sure any dhcp or other relevant settings aren't fucked. I would also use a can of compressed air and dust out both the modem and the router.

    When the connection gets fucked can you still log into the router's settings page before you power cycle? If you cannot it's a problem with your router most likely. If you can it could be your router, modem, or even possibly your connection to your isp.

    LD50 on
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    MugsleyMugsley DelawareRegistered User regular
    I've seen similar problems related to power. Specifically, if the router turns on an initializes before the modem has finished fully setting up. It's a long shot, but could you have suspect power to either the modem or router?

    I really have to find the time, soon, to set up a Networking thread with a decent OP. There's been a bunch of networking posts latetly.

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    That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    There's finally some news on Cannonlake. Looks like 10nm yields are finally good enough for release later this year. Intel is claiming their 10nm architecture is several generations ahead of it's competition and is going to be able to deliver CPUs cheaper and more efficient than Samsung. I am sure my 2600k will have no trouble lasting until release.

    http://hothardware.com/news/intel-details-advanced-10nm-node

    This is it though. Silicon transistors can't be manufactured any smaller. We've finally reached the top of this tech tree. Any further improvements will only be found in TDP and other efficiencies. If we want to make transistors any smaller, much more exotic materials will have to be used. None of the proposed methods and materials are even close to industrial scale.

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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    That_Guy wrote: »
    There's finally some news on Cannonlake. Looks like 10nm yields are finally good enough for release later this year. Intel is claiming their 10nm architecture is several generations ahead of it's competition and is going to be able to deliver CPUs cheaper and more efficient than Samsung. I am sure my 2600k will have no trouble lasting until release.

    http://hothardware.com/news/intel-details-advanced-10nm-node

    This is it though. Silicon transistors can't be manufactured any smaller. We've finally reached the top of this tech tree. Any further improvements will only be found in TDP and other efficiencies. If we want to make transistors any smaller, much more exotic materials will have to be used. None of the proposed methods and materials are even close to industrial scale.

    That's sort of exciting I think. We're likely to see a pretty crazy revolution in CPU technology and design in our lifetimes.

    edit: Also if you were planning an upgrade to Skylake this year, might want to hold off if possible and get those sweet sweet 10 nm lithographies up in.

    3cl1ps3 on
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    Mace1370Mace1370 Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    The wait for aftermarket 1080 Tis is killing me slowly.

    Mace1370 on
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    BloodycowBloodycow Registered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    There's finally some news on Cannonlake. Looks like 10nm yields are finally good enough for release later this year. Intel is claiming their 10nm architecture is several generations ahead of it's competition and is going to be able to deliver CPUs cheaper and more efficient than Samsung. I am sure my 2600k will have no trouble lasting until release.

    http://hothardware.com/news/intel-details-advanced-10nm-node

    This is it though. Silicon transistors can't be manufactured any smaller. We've finally reached the top of this tech tree. Any further improvements will only be found in TDP and other efficiencies. If we want to make transistors any smaller, much more exotic materials will have to be used. None of the proposed methods and materials are even close to industrial scale.

    I was reading their press release stuff and they said they will be manufacturing 10nm stuff for 3 years before they move on to 7nm. They specifically said they have extended moores law with their new fab techniques.

    "Down the road, Intel will also release enhanced 10-nanometer tech called 10+ and 10++. To be sure, that's mostly marketing-speak that will help it keep consumer's attention until 7-nanometer chips come along. However, the refinements will offer a further 15 percent performance and 30 percent efficiency boost"

    "We are always looking three generations –- seven to nine years -- ahead," says Intel Executive VP Stacy J. Smith. "Moore's Law is not ending at any time we can see ahead of us."

    " I am a warrior, so that my son may be a merchant, so that his son may be a poet.”
    ― John Quincy Adams
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    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    twmjr wrote: »
    @Grundlestiltskin @Mugsley if I'm remembering right, I think the setting I turned off was in the Menu - Others - Monitor Deep Sleep (Disable)

    This is correct.

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    GrundlestiltskinGrundlestiltskin Behind you!Registered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    twmjr wrote: »
    @Grundlestiltskin @Mugsley if I'm remembering right, I think the setting I turned off was in the Menu - Others - Monitor Deep Sleep (Disable)

    This is correct.

    Yep, seems to have done the trick. Thanks all.

    3DS FC: 2079-6424-8577 | PSN: KaeruX65 | Steam: Karulytic | FFXIV: Wonder Boy
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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Mace1370 wrote: »
    The wait for aftermarket 1080 Tis is killing me slowly.

    The EVGA ones sold out in about 4 hours, yeesh.

    They have signups for the next round of preorders ready.

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    Mace1370Mace1370 Registered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    Mace1370 wrote: »
    The wait for aftermarket 1080 Tis is killing me slowly.

    The EVGA ones sold out in about 4 hours, yeesh.

    They have signups for the next round of preorders ready.

    Ya, my problem is I have like $500 in Amazon store credit so I would greatly prefer to by it there. It doesn't really look like they are doing any pre-orders though.

    Maybe I should just buy a FE card. I worry that they will be too noisy though.

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    BloodycowBloodycow Registered User regular
    Oh it's noisy at anything about 60% fan speed

    Sounds like a vacuum going off, I just bought a waterblock for it and it barely hits 50c in normal gaming

    " I am a warrior, so that my son may be a merchant, so that his son may be a poet.”
    ― John Quincy Adams
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    MugsleyMugsley DelawareRegistered User regular
    Just be like me and be patient (like I'm doing for the NES Classic WHICH STILL ISN'T IN STOCK). The good thing about the Amazon credit is that it doesn't have an expiration date, like traditional gift cards.

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    NEO|PhyteNEO|Phyte They follow the stars, bound together. Strands in a braid till the end.Registered User regular
    Been vaguely pondering putting together a box for hosting game servers, for those times when I get sucked into something like minecraft/terraria/ARK. How does the pricing tend to look on such a thing? I know it's gonna be more reasonable than a gaming box from not needing to shove half of its budget into a shiny graphics card, but I don't know if it's as simple as putting together a regular computer or if there's any specialized options to look at with such an aim.

    Assuming it's not a Bad Idea, I could probably also have the box pull double duty as a NAS.

    It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
    Warframe/Steam: NFyt
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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    NEO|Phyte wrote: »
    Been vaguely pondering putting together a box for hosting game servers, for those times when I get sucked into something like minecraft/terraria/ARK. How does the pricing tend to look on such a thing? I know it's gonna be more reasonable than a gaming box from not needing to shove half of its budget into a shiny graphics card, but I don't know if it's as simple as putting together a regular computer or if there's any specialized options to look at with such an aim.

    Assuming it's not a Bad Idea, I could probably also have the box pull double duty as a NAS.

    The thing to remember is that the money you save on the video card winds up going to other places, like storage (especially if you're going to go with it being a NAS). You can make a server out of a regular computer, especially if it's just for your own internal use.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    NEO|PhyteNEO|Phyte They follow the stars, bound together. Strands in a braid till the end.Registered User regular
    Regular computers need regular computer amounts of space. Also the only ones laying around to be repurposed are super old, since my previous rig has been given the hand-me-down treatment. Last I heard of it was my niece asking what minecraft modpack it was I was playing. (Skyfactory 3)

    It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
    Warframe/Steam: NFyt
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    Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    The thing you'll want to consider is how much disk space you want and the physical size/dimensions they'll take up. If you can swing a mini build and a KVM switch, the overall footprint would be small.

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