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[PC Build Thread] AMD Radeon Chief Architect Raja Koduri Moves to Intel =O

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Posts

  • MugsleyMugsley DelawareRegistered User regular
    It's faster, now, but you still may need to let the computer run overnight so that it can add everything it needs. IIRC, you'll still need to grab updates and I'm not sure if the major ones like the Creator's Update have been incorporated yet (I'm assuming it is, but shrug.jpg)

  • wunderbarwunderbar What Have I Done? Registered User regular
    Mugsley wrote: »
    It's faster, now, but you still may need to let the computer run overnight so that it can add everything it needs. IIRC, you'll still need to grab updates and I'm not sure if the major ones like the Creator's Update have been incorporated yet (I'm assuming it is, but shrug.jpg)

    If you've grabbed the lastest ISO it'll absolutely have the Creators update in it. They make that change literally the day the update comes out. There will be a few updates after the fact though. One good thing about windows 10 is the updates are cumulative, so no more having to install a billion updates. It'll be 1 big cumulative update, and then a few more smaller ones for other components.

    XBL: thewunderbar PSN: thewunderbar NNID: thewunderbar Steam: wunderbar87 Twitter: wunderbar
  • Ed GrubermanEd Gruberman Registered User regular
    Thanks to the little kerfuffle with CCleaner, I'm moving up my planned reformat to this weekend. So I've got that going for me, which is nice.

    Thankfully I have an assload of free HDD space to temp transfer files without needing USB sticks. Going to make the switch to W10 at the same time.

    Anything I should be alert for or is the process with W10 about as fun as any other OS install?

    Assuming you are installing on a SSD, you should be in pretty good shape. I just had to reinstall W10 on a platter drive when the HDD on my work computer died and it took half the day to install W10. Then the better part of my next workday to install all of the updates including the Creator update.

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  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    edited September 2017
    The ISO I have is from just before the end of the 'free' period. Should I bother to get a new one or just deal with it as is.

    Keep in mind my internet speed is a blazing fast 2.2mbit/s. And for reasons I want to get it basically running by Saturday.

    EDIT:
    Running overnight to install updates is not any kind of problem. Just the self-imposed time limit to get there.

    Santa Claustrophobia on
  • HeatwaveHeatwave Come, now, and walk the path of explosions with me!Registered User regular
    Nothing major but remember to remove the usb stick after after windows 10 finishes installing, otherwise you'll keep being brought back to the install screen.

    My first time doing this a couple years ago was so frustrating that I had to call MS tech support. Felt so dumb afterwards :P

    P2n5r3l.jpg
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  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    htm wrote: »
    Mugsley wrote: »
    jgeis wrote: »
    the CPU is pulling over 1000w all by itself and registers temps above 0°C in spite of ~-100°C LN2 making direct contact with the die lid.

    Something something shitty TIM.

    Way to go, Intel. Enthusiasts are going to walk away from you (in the short term) because you won't spend additional $2 per chip.

    Not entirely sure of that: Intel i9-7980XE & 7960X Review: Delidded Thermals, Power, & Performance.

    I agree that not soldering SKL-X was really stupid, but regardless, the thing is a overclocking monster if you delid it. I predict Der8auer is going to get rich selling delidding kits, and that demand for 1000+W PSUs is going to go way up.

    The amount of people who CAN delid is tiny, and of those the amount of people who even want to do it anymore is smaller still.

    wunderbar3cl1ps3danxjmcdonald
  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    I could delid it (in that I have the technical expertise), but I'm not in a situation where I'm ok with potentially throwing a $1000 cpu in the garbage.

    jungleroomxdanxBouwsTHeatwave
  • KarlKarl Registered User regular
    Oh, does deliding (is that the right word) void your warranty?

  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
  • htmhtm Registered User regular
    Karl wrote: »
    Oh, does deliding (is that the right word) void your warranty?

    Yes, but overlocking your CPU at all voids your warranty, too.

    And I think that while delidding will never be something a lot of people do, it's going to get a lot more popular. The De8auer delidding tool is pretty inexpensive relative to the overall price of an HEDT ($50 or less, including some fancy liquid metal thermal compound).

    Anyway, my original point is that Intel isn't going to suffer much for SKL-X's crappy TIM. If you're not going overclock, then the lack of soldering doesn't really matter to you assuming you're using a decent CPU cooler.

    If you are the sort of enthusiast who's serious about overclocking, though, you probably aren't going to go AMD instead because Threadripper just doesn't OC very well compared to SKL-X. Delidding may well be a pain, but it's not super-expensive or difficult, and it enables really good overclocking results.

  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    htm wrote: »
    Karl wrote: »
    Oh, does deliding (is that the right word) void your warranty?

    Yes, but overlocking your CPU at all voids your warranty, too.

    And I think that while delidding will never be something a lot of people do, it's going to get a lot more popular. The De8auer delidding tool is pretty inexpensive relative to the overall price of an HEDT ($50 or less, including some fancy liquid metal thermal compound).

    Anyway, my original point is that Intel isn't going to suffer much for SKL-X's crappy TIM. If you're not going overclock, then the lack of soldering doesn't really matter to you assuming you're using a decent CPU cooler.

    If you are the sort of enthusiast who's serious about overclocking, though, you probably aren't going to go AMD instead because Threadripper just doesn't OC very well compared to SKL-X. Delidding may well be a pain, but it's not super-expensive or difficult, and it enables really good overclocking results.

    That is a very disingenuous thing to say.

    Overclocking only voids your warranty if it results in damage to the chip (seriously overvolting the chip, for instance). Merely overclocking the cpu does nothing to the warranty (especially seeing as intel has no way of knowing if the chip were overclocked or not). Overclocking also isn't going to cause any damage assuming it's done reasonably, especially considering the thermal control built into processors nowadays.

    Delidding the cpu voids the warranty for sure 100% of the time, and comes with a high chance of damaging the cpu and making it inoperable.

    wunderbarvagrant_windsThat_Guy3cl1ps3
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Plus, Intel gives a wink-and-a-nod to overclocking with their K chips.

    Gnome-Interruptus3cl1ps3
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Intel officially supports over clocking on all K series CPUs. It will not void your warranty unless you physically damage the chip.

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  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    Intel's wording only seems like it does because they explicitly don't warranty the chip's running outside of it's advertised parameters. IE, if you have a chip that is advertised to run at 4.0 ghz, and you lose the silicon lottery and you can't get it to run stably at 4.1 ghz, that is not warrantied and you can't return it.

  • htmhtm Registered User regular
    LD50 wrote: »
    htm wrote: »
    Karl wrote: »
    Oh, does deliding (is that the right word) void your warranty?

    Yes, but overlocking your CPU at all voids your warranty, too.

    And I think that while delidding will never be something a lot of people do, it's going to get a lot more popular. The De8auer delidding tool is pretty inexpensive relative to the overall price of an HEDT ($50 or less, including some fancy liquid metal thermal compound).

    Anyway, my original point is that Intel isn't going to suffer much for SKL-X's crappy TIM. If you're not going overclock, then the lack of soldering doesn't really matter to you assuming you're using a decent CPU cooler.

    If you are the sort of enthusiast who's serious about overclocking, though, you probably aren't going to go AMD instead because Threadripper just doesn't OC very well compared to SKL-X. Delidding may well be a pain, but it's not super-expensive or difficult, and it enables really good overclocking results.

    That is a very disingenuous thing to say.

    Overclocking only voids your warranty if it results in damage to the chip (seriously overvolting the chip, for instance). Merely overclocking the cpu does nothing to the warranty (especially seeing as intel has no way of knowing if the chip were overclocked or not). Overclocking also isn't going to cause any damage assuming it's done reasonably, especially considering the thermal control built into processors nowadays.

    Delidding the cpu voids the warranty for sure 100% of the time, and comes with a high chance of damaging the cpu and making it inoperable.

    Intel's warranty is void if your Intel CPU fails while operating outside its listed specs. In fact they'll sell you a protection plan to provide a (one-time) replacement CPU if you fry yours while overclocking it. So sure, overclocking your CPU doesn't, in fact, void the warranty as long as it continues to work, but if your CPU continues to work, you have no need to avail yourself of the warranty. And I'm assuming that since they sell a protection plan, they have some way of identifying CPUs damaged by OCing. If they weren't willing and able to deny warranty coverage in such cases, then the protection plan would have no value.

    That being said, the issue of warranty coverage is kind of off in the weeds, and I shouldn't have brought it up.

    Anyway, I stand by my original, somewhat banal observations: non-overclockers who have a decent CPU cooler aren't going to avoid Intel because SKL-X isn't soldered, and committed overclockers will risk delidding because the performance gains from overclocking SKL-X are really substantial.

    As far as delidding being super-dangerous, maybe? De8auer seems to think it's a safe and reproducible process and Silicon Lottery makes a business out of it. I've watched videos of it being done with DeBauer's delidding gadget, and it seems only sightly more frightening than installing your CPU into the MB socket, applying thermal paste, and clamping on the cooler.

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited September 2017
    If you use a delidding tool, delidding is very repeatable and very safe. The idea that delidding is dangerous came from the years of people doing it with heat guns, vices and razors. That IS dangerous because you are very likely to cut the circuitry or nick the die.

    I still wouldn't do it to a 1000 dollar CPU, thank you very much. I'm willing to take some risk, delidding an 8700K for instance, maybe even a 7280...but a 7980? No thanks.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
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    bowen3cl1ps3
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    htm wrote: »
    Anyway, I stand by my original, somewhat banal observations: non-overclockers who have a decent CPU cooler aren't going to avoid Intel because SKL-X isn't soldered, and committed overclockers will risk delidding because the performance gains from overclocking SKL-X are really substantial.

    As far as delidding being super-dangerous, maybe? De8auer seems to think it's a safe and reproducible process and Silicon Lottery makes a business out of it. I've watched videos of it being done with DeBauer's delidding gadget, and it seems only sightly more frightening than installing your CPU into the MB socket, applying thermal paste, and clamping on the cooler.

    I mean, that first statement isn't true.

    I haven't overclocked in 10 years (and probably won't ever again) and I refuse to get Intel's little toaster ovens because of the same reason I won't get an AMD video card: Heat is a system killer and the less heat the better, always.

    I have a distinct feeling I'm not alone in this regard.

    Unless Intel fixes their TIM problems I won't be purchasing their chips again. I will say the same thing for those chips that I say for Radeons: They are actively bad for your system and purchasing them will reduce the life of your computer, unless you're willing to fork out the high amount of dollars necessary to offset that heat. That usually comes attached to a reduced quality-of-life (extra heat in your house, extra noise, etc). Nobody should purchase them because the Ryzen chips are simply a better deal all over.

    jungleroomx on
    Gnome-Interruptus
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    If you use a delidding tool, delidding is very repeatable and very safe. The idea that delidding is dangerous came from the years of people doing it with heat guns, vices and razors. That IS dangerous because you are very likely to cut the circuitry or nick the die.

    I still wouldn't do it to a 1000 dollar CPU, thank you very much. I'm willing to take some risk, delidding an 8700K for instance, maybe even a 7280...but a 7980? No thanks.

    I could just purchase a similarly-functioning CPU that doesn't have the heat problems and not even bother with delidding.

    jungleroomx on
    bowen3cl1ps3wunderbarSmokeStacks
  • KarlKarl Registered User regular
    What CPU did you go for?

  • KarlKarl Registered User regular
    My (admittedly limited) research is showing that OC'd Ryzen CPU's don't have a heat issue. Is that right?

    jungleroomx
  • Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Once an Asshole. Trying to be better. Registered User regular
    My oc 1800 runs at room temperature all day under most application water-cooled.

  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    If you use a delidding tool, delidding is very repeatable and very safe. The idea that delidding is dangerous came from the years of people doing it with heat guns, vices and razors. That IS dangerous because you are very likely to cut the circuitry or nick the die.

    I still wouldn't do it to a 1000 dollar CPU, thank you very much. I'm willing to take some risk, delidding an 8700K for instance, maybe even a 7280...but a 7980? No thanks.

    I could just purchase a similarly-functioning CPU that doesn't have the heat problems and not even bother with delidding.

    And there are reasons for someone else to make a different choice. Nobody has to buy Intel and/or de-lid. Thankfully we're at a point where AMD is putting out a genuine competitor and we have such options. But even without the AMD choice, Intel chips would likely still suffer from heat issues.

    jungleroomx
  • MugsleyMugsley DelawareRegistered User regular
    Guys, I said this earlier in the thread. This is no different than when people were buying hot Pentium 4's about 8-10(!) years ago. Back then, people were using light application of heat and some dental floss to delid; and I want to say that there was zero TIM between the die and the heat spreader back then but I could be remembering wrong.

    Back then, the enthusiast world was fairly evenly split between Athlons and Pentiums.

    None of this is new. This debate will constantly recycle itself, and quite frankly it means that there is "reasonable" competition in the market.

    ----

    Update on "WTF Happened to Mugsley's 1080?!??!?!" I received a RMA number last night after having to write an email to EVGA support twice (because the first one evaporated when I accidentally closed a browser tab). I'm planning to send the card back tomorrow and start wringing my hands in anticipation.

    In the meantime, I discovered that my PSU was from my build back in 2008 [shit, I'm old] and it's still trucking along nicely, TYVM. In the meantime, my 780 is still cruising.

  • ZxerolZxerol for the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't do so i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered User regular
    Real ninjas rolled with Cyrix 4 life!!

  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    I had a friend who had a Cyrix. Then agonized over the fact that he didn't read the box for Daggerfall that said Cyrix wasn't supported.

    Good times.

    jungleroomx
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    Zxerol wrote: »
    Real ninjas rolled with Cyrix 4 life!!

    So, graphing calculators?

    (I'm not joking on Cyrix chips, just referencing they're a part of Texas Instruments now)

    jungleroomx on
  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    Might have been one of those shittier mediagx compaqs/emachines

  • SyngyneSyngyne Registered User regular
    Haha wow. An ad from Walmart just came up in my FB feed. They're selling six packs of Radeon 580s for mining.

    5gsowHm.png
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Syngyne wrote: »
    Haha wow. An ad from Walmart just came up in my FB feed. They're selling six packs of Radeon 580s for mining.

    I'd awesome that, but it be for like the total opposite of awesome...

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
    Gnome-InterruptuswunderbarInquisitor77Syngyne
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    So while the W10 install is complete, there is still the matter of drivers and programs and porn games porn games to install. But, I have to say that it will take some getting used to. I knew I wasn't going to be much of a fan of the tablet/touch screen emphasis.

  • Sir CarcassSir Carcass I have been shown the end of my world Round Rock, TXRegistered User regular
    So while the W10 install is complete, there is still the matter of drivers and programs and porn games porn games to install. But, I have to say that it will take some getting used to. I knew I wasn't going to be much of a fan of the tablet/touch screen emphasis.

    Are you sure you didn't install Windows 8 by mistake?

  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Not unless MS intentionally put 'Windows 10' on the system info screen. And they would never mislead people would they?



    More that I'm overstating things. The Start menu has a bunch of that shit and half of the pre-install options seemed to be about it. I just habe to get used to things and make changes where needed.

  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    you can have it auto load to the old desktop with some setting somewhere.

  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    You mean like making it look like W7?

  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    You mean like making it look like W7?

    Mostly, yes. Instead of going to the tiles screen it will load to the desktop. The start button is still the new metro stuff but even that can be "mostly" customized to show apps/common things similar to the old win7 setup.

  • MugsleyMugsley DelawareRegistered User regular
    If you're interested, I can dig up the "setting up a new laptop" video I used to set up my system after I moved to Win10

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    I don't remember being able to save certain things on your taskbar in 7, but I could just be mistaken.

    yfrgyebs4mmd.png

  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Cool. I think for now I'll just go with the flow and get used to things. I'll ask when I need to, but I usually end up sticking with the core defaults but making a fee tweaks for my personal uses. I try not to fight the OS too much.

  • MugsleyMugsley DelawareRegistered User regular
    FTR my start menu has only 3 tiles. #notsayingjustsaying

  • HeatwaveHeatwave Come, now, and walk the path of explosions with me!Registered User regular
    Re Windows 10

    You can turn off the live tiles and also unpin most of the junk you don't want. A lot of the stuff you can even uninstall.

    I only have Calendar, Photos, and Phone companion, might even get rid of the last one.

    If you're worried about privacy you can also disable several options.

    https://www.computerworld.com/article/3025709/microsoft-windows/windows-10-quick-tips-how-to-protect-your-privacy.html

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This discussion has been closed.