They almost made... Echo's? SSB be Wall + Haste but Japan freaked the fuck out and DeNA pulled the ripcord.
The problem with Cloud's USB is that unless you just make it so people can't RW, it is extremely hard to balance around. Wall, you can have piercing attacks, and dispels and stuff like that which mostly only affects wall. The ways to fix Cloud's USB are gigantic defense but that nerfs everyone who doesn't have it, or crit immunity, which hurts a lot of other, balanced relics in the fallout.
I mean, hell, there's an image going around today of a guy who cloud USB teamed his way through every magicite dungeon because who gives a fuck about the proper elemental weakness. In fights that are designed entirely to require hitting those weaknesses.
They almost made... Echo's? SSB be Wall + Haste but Japan freaked the fuck out and DeNA pulled the ripcord.
The problem with Cloud's USB is that unless you just make it so people can't RW, it is extremely hard to balance around. Wall, you can have piercing attacks, and dispels and stuff like that which mostly only affects wall. The ways to fix Cloud's USB are gigantic defense but that nerfs everyone who doesn't have it, or crit immunity, which hurts a lot of other, balanced relics in the fallout.
I mean, hell, there's an image going around today of a guy who cloud USB teamed his way through every magicite dungeon because who gives a fuck about the proper elemental weakness. In fights that are designed entirely to require hitting those weaknesses.
Echo's SSB was actually going to be a half strength Wall + haste, except it would have STACKED with Wall. I can't even imagine the thought process behind that initial decision. If it had been half strength Wall + haste, but did not stack with Wall, I think that would have been an interesting option.
They almost made... Echo's? SSB be Wall + Haste but Japan freaked the fuck out and DeNA pulled the ripcord.
The problem with Cloud's USB is that unless you just make it so people can't RW, it is extremely hard to balance around. Wall, you can have piercing attacks, and dispels and stuff like that which mostly only affects wall. The ways to fix Cloud's USB are gigantic defense but that nerfs everyone who doesn't have it, or crit immunity, which hurts a lot of other, balanced relics in the fallout.
I mean, hell, there's an image going around today of a guy who cloud USB teamed his way through every magicite dungeon because who gives a fuck about the proper elemental weakness. In fights that are designed entirely to require hitting those weaknesses.
This used to be an issue with Wall, as well; use Wall, or be ready to work MUCH harder to beat content. The solution to that problem appears to have been more or less what the consensus in this forum proposed the last time we discussed it, i.e., jack up boss offensive stats and include lots of attacks for which defensive stats are irrelevant, and introduce lots of stacking debuffs. Seems to have worked.
Cloud's USB, however... sheesh. That thing ain't right. It should be nerfed, but DeNA never nerfs relics.
They can put on very specific wall hate in particular fights if they really wanted to. Just put a small DEF/RES debuff with the same status ID as wall on an ability the boss spams a lot.
They almost made... Echo's? SSB be Wall + Haste but Japan freaked the fuck out and DeNA pulled the ripcord.
The problem with Cloud's USB is that unless you just make it so people can't RW, it is extremely hard to balance around. Wall, you can have piercing attacks, and dispels and stuff like that which mostly only affects wall. The ways to fix Cloud's USB are gigantic defense but that nerfs everyone who doesn't have it, or crit immunity, which hurts a lot of other, balanced relics in the fallout.
I mean, hell, there's an image going around today of a guy who cloud USB teamed his way through every magicite dungeon because who gives a fuck about the proper elemental weakness. In fights that are designed entirely to require hitting those weaknesses.
This used to be an issue with Wall, as well; use Wall, or be ready to work MUCH harder to beat content. The solution to that problem appears to have been more or less what the consensus in this forum proposed the last time we discussed it, i.e., jack up boss offensive stats and include lots of attacks for which defensive stats are irrelevant, and introduce lots of stacking debuffs. Seems to have worked.
Cloud's USB, however... sheesh. That thing ain't right. It should be nerfed, but DeNA never nerfs relics.
They almost made... Echo's? SSB be Wall + Haste but Japan freaked the fuck out and DeNA pulled the ripcord.
The problem with Cloud's USB is that unless you just make it so people can't RW, it is extremely hard to balance around. Wall, you can have piercing attacks, and dispels and stuff like that which mostly only affects wall. The ways to fix Cloud's USB are gigantic defense but that nerfs everyone who doesn't have it, or crit immunity, which hurts a lot of other, balanced relics in the fallout.
I mean, hell, there's an image going around today of a guy who cloud USB teamed his way through every magicite dungeon because who gives a fuck about the proper elemental weakness. In fights that are designed entirely to require hitting those weaknesses.
This used to be an issue with Wall, as well; use Wall, or be ready to work MUCH harder to beat content. The solution to that problem appears to have been more or less what the consensus in this forum proposed the last time we discussed it, i.e., jack up boss offensive stats and include lots of attacks for which defensive stats are irrelevant, and introduce lots of stacking debuffs. Seems to have worked.
Cloud's USB, however... sheesh. That thing ain't right. It should be nerfed, but DeNA never nerfs relics.
To be fair, Japanese gambling laws prevent DeNA from nerfing relics. I think this is a good law, otherwise there could be some serious abuse of gacha systems. I wish the USA had similar laws that applied to online games like FFRK, I'd like to see the exact chance of getting each relic like you can now in Japan.
Valefor uses fewer summon orbs, though it's about 2.5 weeks until we get a daily with summon orbs in it, that has a pretty good stamina per orb ratio. Valefor also uses quite a few wind orbs (including major wind), while Maduin is just summon and non-elemental. I think Maduin is the better choice to level.
I still haven't decided on a 5* summon to level, but I'm leaning toward Titan just because I have so many fire and earth orbs, while I'm actually somewhat low on dark orbs. Earth is a pretty rare weakness, but it's also an uncommon resistance so it seems like a fairly safe choice.
-edit- I do have a pretty lame earth aura soul break for Rinoa (great animation, potency is lacking as well as Rinoa's SB generation), so kitting her out with Titan and Fat Chocobo is an option. I don't have a dark aura for a summoner (is there one?), nor a wind aura (might get Alphinaud's tonight, but probably not), which leaves Bahamut as an option, except for all those dark orbs it requires.
Yeah, I could swear they just recently released a Dark summon, a Bahamut Zero or something IIRC
For a character with Summon 5* and an enDark SSB, I would look at Seymour at a guess.
There are a few ways they could nerf Cloud's USB pretty hard. All would have consequences or do things that would effectively buff other things.
Massively buff enemy def to make the overflow part of his USB effectively do nothing
Dissuade physical damage/force magic damage by nuke counters/resets (ala Omniscient or the magic-based Nightmare bosses)
Additional transition stages, either by the death/revive or gauntlet mechanics, or just bosses that use instant attacks after phase transitions so if you pass too many at once, you get torched
Spams/counters with mega-dispels
And especially in the magicite dungeons, upgrade the off-element resistances to absorbs or full immunity so you can't stack imperils to get around them with it natively (and can't RW it there, obviously).
Or just add mechanics that specifically target it, eg
Using wind (or even an SB) against a boss causes it to counter with a barrier that makes it immune to physical damage for 20 seconds
Taking extremely reduced damage from SBs
Counter RW user with a mega-dispel or a huge Stop (wouldn't help with native)
A special barrier that makes a boss only take damage from the first hit of ability/SB
Yeah, I could swear they just recently released a Dark summon, a Bahamut Zero or something IIRC
For a character with Summon 5* and an enDark SSB, I would look at Seymour at a guess.
Ultima Weapon is the dark element 5* summon, and yeah it looks like Seymour gets a dark aura soul break. Golbez can dive to 4*, which isn't helpful. Most other characters with dark aura soul breaks aren't summoners, as far as I can tell.
Make bosses that are "mildly resistant" to damage cap breaking. Make them as frequent as bosses that are resistant to stat modification. Actual OSBs will be strong enough to ignore that, but SOLDIER Mode attacks will be capped at something considerably lower than 100k.
Or is that too close to nerfing the relic to be legal?
Well they could make bosses immune to imperils, I guess? But that doesn't really address the actual problem with Cloud's USB I feel. How they determined that taking a regular SSB and giving it a buff that guarantees critical hits, as well as another buff that ups physical damage by 30% and allows physical damage to exceed the 9999 damage cap was balanced is beyond me. I could have seen his USB being standard SSB damage with the guaranteed crits and the +30% physical damage, that feels like enough to make it better than an SSB but not incredibly overpowered. The damage cap breaking is just way too much.
-edit- Frankly the USBs are all over the place in terms of actually useful power. Cloud gets a ridiculous amount of power out of his, while Y'shtola gets party heavy regen, a party blink that works on the next physical or magical hit, and a self Instant Cast 1. I contend that a good number of SSBs are stronger than that, not to mention most BSBs.
I just realized I want to use Cloud's USB with: Raijin. One use of the BSB build up charges and get enLightning, and then call in the USB, second BSB and unleash. It's 10 hits at 2.05x each before any bonuses, which after imperil, boost and crit should be around 8x each.
The problem with Raijin is that it's good for one shot of loldamage, but he can't sustain it like Squall or Cloud can if you're using Cloud's USB.
Of course, you may not need the second shot. :P
I'd hope not! The second BSB entry plus C2 is like 105x, which should at least dent most enemies.
In the number of turns it takes to get there, most basic enElement Cloud USB setups will have murdered things two or three times over.
This applies to literally every setup in the game. Cloud USB is probably the biggest mistake DeNA has made, and I'm probably going to avoid using it unless I need to because it makes the game boring.
I'd just like to chime in here, as one of those players. Cloud USB will be the light and the saviour. Cloud USB means I don't have to worry about whether my team can or can't do (they can) the 250 Torment fights. Cloud USB will mean that I can go in there and walk over a fight that I, personally, do not find fun in the slightest degree to do via natural resources and normal means.
I also look forward to the inevitable MP raids of people bringing Cloud/Zack as their team and everyone Lifesiphoning up to 2 SB bars a piece to drop Cross Slash/C Motorcycles all over the place, just for the sheer hilarity of it.
Since Global is a Different Game (lol), they could nerf Cloud's USB before releasing it, and that shouldn't violate any laws.
Ultima Weapon summon is looking a lot more attractive now that I have some Sephiroth gloves to dark-boost it, even if I don't have any en-dark summoners.
Yea, Cloud's USB should have been exactly the same except without the cap break. That'd still be very strong USB tier given how weak a lot of USBs are. Hell even a "Raises the cap to 19999" would be broken but not so wildly stupid broken.
Videos of Cloud's BSB2 doing 500k damage in Difficulty 300 fights is like what even is anything.
Technically I think they can nerf anything at any time in Global, unless a major country like Germany has laws preventing it. I'm pretty sure US gambling laws do not take mobile games into consideration, but heck I'm not a lawyer so I could be wrong.
Well they could make bosses immune to imperils, I guess? But that doesn't really address the actual problem with Cloud's USB I feel. How they determined that taking a regular SSB and giving it a buff that guarantees critical hits, as well as another buff that ups physical damage by 30% and allows physical damage to exceed the 9999 damage cap was balanced is beyond me. I could have seen his USB being standard SSB damage with the guaranteed crits and the +30% physical damage, that feels like enough to make it better than an SSB but not incredibly overpowered. The damage cap breaking is just way too much.
-edit- Frankly the USBs are all over the place in terms of actually useful power. Cloud gets a ridiculous amount of power out of his, while Y'shtola gets party heavy regen, a party blink that works on the next physical or magical hit, and a self Instant Cast 1. I contend that a good number of SSBs are stronger than that, not to mention most BSBs.
What doesn't that go for? SBs cover everything from Braver to Wall. SSBs have everything from Proof of Existence to Shout. BSBs go from Trigger Happy to anything besides Trigger Happy. Even OSBs range from TGCid's at 15x with a major boost (but slightly longer cast time), to Zidane's at a low of 11.8 and a high of 12.8.
Yea, Cloud's USB should have been exactly the same except without the cap break. That'd still be very strong USB tier given how weak a lot of USBs are. Hell even a "Raises the cap to 19999" would be broken but not so wildly stupid broken.
Videos of Cloud's BSB2 doing 500k damage in Difficulty 300 fights is like what even is anything.
Could they start making bosses "resist" damage cap breaks, reducing cap-breaking attacks to 20k unless they're an actual OSB, without breaking those gambling laws?
Yea, Cloud's USB should have been exactly the same except without the cap break. That'd still be very strong USB tier given how weak a lot of USBs are. Hell even a "Raises the cap to 19999" would be broken but not so wildly stupid broken.
Videos of Cloud's BSB2 doing 500k damage in Difficulty 300 fights is like what even is anything.
Could they start making bosses "resist" damage cap breaks, reducing cap-breaking attacks to 20k unless they're an actual OSB, without breaking those gambling laws?
You would probably have to ask a Japanese lawyer who specialized in gaming laws. All I know is that changing an item that can be bought with money or gambled for after it is released is almost always going to run afoul of laws, so changing the way things interact with an item is kind of a weird area where I think you'd need legitimate experience with the law in question to be able to say one way or the other.
So, in order, he chugs an empowering potion using the Chemist's Drink ability, pulls out a Samurai's katana, throws some money at the enemy, circles around them with some Sword Dance attacks, and then finally smacks them with a Jump attack.
And there's my final orbfest stage. Once again, as always, I'm glad to see it go.
Now to start catching up on Record Missions, Nemesis, and the story dungeons I still have outstanding.
And I guess at least one pass through the material dungeons for the mythril.
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silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
I still have folks to level to 99, so most likely I'll be in Materials fest for the next 3 days until it's over for real for good. Though I have one thing in mind that might tip my hand to leave early.
Unfortunately I have a ton of leveling projects left. I threw some mythril for refreshes while I still could. Unfortunately Refia is still sub 80. Once I get her and Vivi to 99 I will be happier. I suppose she doesn't really need the +fire RM, but I think it will still have some uses.
Also, I might be done with this Infinity battle bullshit. I had a good run, and looked like I might win. Then the game crashed on me in the middle of one of his attacks. Just fuck every part of that.
Well, a productive orbfest for me I think. Didn't really refresh much, but I did pretty alright and leveled a bunch more guys to 80 and got good work on some toward 99.
Should have refreshed a bit in the first phase, but with the new dailies coming out its not too bad. And it's not like I've actually made anything anyway, heh.
Well, a productive orbfest for me I think. Didn't really refresh much, but I did pretty alright and leveled a bunch more guys to 80 and got good work on some toward 99.
Should have refreshed a bit in the first phase, but with the new dailies coming out its not too bad. And it's not like I've actually made anything anyway, heh.
I thought about refreshing in phase 1, since Black and Dark are my two most needed orb types in the coming months, but the realization that the new dailies will have the same (or slightly better) orb drop rates as an Orbfest (without the accompanying EXP) made me reconsider.
Also the fact that even when I farm enough Orbs to R3 a 5* skill, I usually leave it at R1 and hoard the orbs forever anyway.
100 gem: onion knight medica
2/11: Chant, and Deployment Tactics!
Deployment Tactics was one of my wants (although I was looking for either Excalibur), and now I've got 5 things on this banner, so I can't really do my second pull.
Ah well!
Also, I think this means I have literally every Ramza SB EXCEPT Shout.
I did really well earlier in this fest so I still have 200 mythril and still have a lot of hits on this banner. but the part of me that can see the way the rng winds are blowing says i should probably stop.
Now, can I somehow get her, Zell, and Delita on the same team?
Since she also has her Cleansing Strike, I'm thinking of giving her Lifesiphon and Saint Cross.
Enlong on
+11
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JeanHeartbroken papa bearGatineau, QuébecRegistered Userregular
Just spent 100 mythril but it was worth it
first pull - 2/11 Agrias's Excalibur and Onion's Eternal Staff
second pull - also 2/11 - Saintly Excalibur and Evoker's Doublet (dupe)
"You won't destroy us, You won't destroy our democracy. We are a small but proud nation. No one can bomb us to silence. No one can scare us from being Norway. This evening and tonight, we'll take care of each other. That's what we do best when attacked'' - Jens Stoltenberg
Posts
The problem with Cloud's USB is that unless you just make it so people can't RW, it is extremely hard to balance around. Wall, you can have piercing attacks, and dispels and stuff like that which mostly only affects wall. The ways to fix Cloud's USB are gigantic defense but that nerfs everyone who doesn't have it, or crit immunity, which hurts a lot of other, balanced relics in the fallout.
I mean, hell, there's an image going around today of a guy who cloud USB teamed his way through every magicite dungeon because who gives a fuck about the proper elemental weakness. In fights that are designed entirely to require hitting those weaknesses.
Echo's SSB was actually going to be a half strength Wall + haste, except it would have STACKED with Wall. I can't even imagine the thought process behind that initial decision. If it had been half strength Wall + haste, but did not stack with Wall, I think that would have been an interesting option.
This used to be an issue with Wall, as well; use Wall, or be ready to work MUCH harder to beat content. The solution to that problem appears to have been more or less what the consensus in this forum proposed the last time we discussed it, i.e., jack up boss offensive stats and include lots of attacks for which defensive stats are irrelevant, and introduce lots of stacking debuffs. Seems to have worked.
Cloud's USB, however... sheesh. That thing ain't right. It should be nerfed, but DeNA never nerfs relics.
they legally can't due to japanese gacha laws.
To be fair, Japanese gambling laws prevent DeNA from nerfing relics. I think this is a good law, otherwise there could be some serious abuse of gacha systems. I wish the USA had similar laws that applied to online games like FFRK, I'd like to see the exact chance of getting each relic like you can now in Japan.
Also kinda want to pick up maduin or valefor since I only have Alexander r4 and ixion r3, but still haven't been able to decide on that front.
I'm putting off honing a 5* summon until I get a summoner with EnEarth, EnWind, or EnDark, or can reliably stack buffs to get three hits on Tiamat.
Bahamut I suppose is the fall back option if none of those things happen.
Also, what's everyone doing the the useless Bahamut? Sell it? Keep it for posterity?
I still haven't decided on a 5* summon to level, but I'm leaning toward Titan just because I have so many fire and earth orbs, while I'm actually somewhat low on dark orbs. Earth is a pretty rare weakness, but it's also an uncommon resistance so it seems like a fairly safe choice.
-edit- I do have a pretty lame earth aura soul break for Rinoa (great animation, potency is lacking as well as Rinoa's SB generation), so kitting her out with Titan and Fat Chocobo is an option. I don't have a dark aura for a summoner (is there one?), nor a wind aura (might get Alphinaud's tonight, but probably not), which leaves Bahamut as an option, except for all those dark orbs it requires.
For a character with Summon 5* and an enDark SSB, I would look at Seymour at a guess.
MWO: Adamski
Massively buff enemy def to make the overflow part of his USB effectively do nothing
Dissuade physical damage/force magic damage by nuke counters/resets (ala Omniscient or the magic-based Nightmare bosses)
Additional transition stages, either by the death/revive or gauntlet mechanics, or just bosses that use instant attacks after phase transitions so if you pass too many at once, you get torched
Spams/counters with mega-dispels
And especially in the magicite dungeons, upgrade the off-element resistances to absorbs or full immunity so you can't stack imperils to get around them with it natively (and can't RW it there, obviously).
Or just add mechanics that specifically target it, eg
Using wind (or even an SB) against a boss causes it to counter with a barrier that makes it immune to physical damage for 20 seconds
Taking extremely reduced damage from SBs
Counter RW user with a mega-dispel or a huge Stop (wouldn't help with native)
A special barrier that makes a boss only take damage from the first hit of ability/SB
Ultima Weapon is the dark element 5* summon, and yeah it looks like Seymour gets a dark aura soul break. Golbez can dive to 4*, which isn't helpful. Most other characters with dark aura soul breaks aren't summoners, as far as I can tell.
Or is that too close to nerfing the relic to be legal?
-edit- Frankly the USBs are all over the place in terms of actually useful power. Cloud gets a ridiculous amount of power out of his, while Y'shtola gets party heavy regen, a party blink that works on the next physical or magical hit, and a self Instant Cast 1. I contend that a good number of SSBs are stronger than that, not to mention most BSBs.
I'd just like to chime in here, as one of those players. Cloud USB will be the light and the saviour. Cloud USB means I don't have to worry about whether my team can or can't do (they can) the 250 Torment fights. Cloud USB will mean that I can go in there and walk over a fight that I, personally, do not find fun in the slightest degree to do via natural resources and normal means.
I also look forward to the inevitable MP raids of people bringing Cloud/Zack as their team and everyone Lifesiphoning up to 2 SB bars a piece to drop Cross Slash/C Motorcycles all over the place, just for the sheer hilarity of it.
Steam: TheArcadeBear
Ultima Weapon summon is looking a lot more attractive now that I have some Sephiroth gloves to dark-boost it, even if I don't have any en-dark summoners.
Videos of Cloud's BSB2 doing 500k damage in Difficulty 300 fights is like what even is anything.
What doesn't that go for? SBs cover everything from Braver to Wall. SSBs have everything from Proof of Existence to Shout. BSBs go from Trigger Happy to anything besides Trigger Happy. Even OSBs range from TGCid's at 15x with a major boost (but slightly longer cast time), to Zidane's at a low of 11.8 and a high of 12.8.
Could they start making bosses "resist" damage cap breaks, reducing cap-breaking attacks to 20k unless they're an actual OSB, without breaking those gambling laws?
You would probably have to ask a Japanese lawyer who specialized in gaming laws. All I know is that changing an item that can be bought with money or gambled for after it is released is almost always going to run afoul of laws, so changing the way things interact with an item is kind of a weird area where I think you'd need legitimate experience with the law in question to be able to say one way or the other.
So, in order, he chugs an empowering potion using the Chemist's Drink ability, pulls out a Samurai's katana, throws some money at the enemy, circles around them with some Sword Dance attacks, and then finally smacks them with a Jump attack.
That's a fun way to explain an EnEarth effect.
Now to start catching up on Record Missions, Nemesis, and the story dungeons I still have outstanding.
And I guess at least one pass through the material dungeons for the mythril.
Also, I might be done with this Infinity battle bullshit. I had a good run, and looked like I might win. Then the game crashed on me in the middle of one of his attacks. Just fuck every part of that.
Should have refreshed a bit in the first phase, but with the new dailies coming out its not too bad. And it's not like I've actually made anything anyway, heh.
Is it weird that the thing I'm most excited for wrt the new dailies is seeing what name they'll give the Summon/Non stages?
I thought about refreshing in phase 1, since Black and Dark are my two most needed orb types in the coming months, but the realization that the new dailies will have the same (or slightly better) orb drop rates as an Orbfest (without the accompanying EXP) made me reconsider.
Also the fact that even when I farm enough Orbs to R3 a 5* skill, I usually leave it at R1 and hoard the orbs forever anyway.
2/11: Chant, and Deployment Tactics!
Deployment Tactics was one of my wants (although I was looking for either Excalibur), and now I've got 5 things on this banner, so I can't really do my second pull.
Ah well!
Also, I think this means I have literally every Ramza SB EXCEPT Shout.
2/11 Eternal Staff, Dupe Evoker's Doublet
1/11 Eternal Staff
Alas, I feared for this.
2/11: Veil of Wiyu (dupe), Veil of Wiyu (dupe)
Womp womp
So ends my 2nd anniversary pulls, not with a bang but a whimper.
100-gems for Agrias's Excalibur!
Now, can I somehow get her, Zell, and Delita on the same team?
Since she also has her Cleansing Strike, I'm thinking of giving her Lifesiphon and Saint Cross.
first pull - 2/11 Agrias's Excalibur and Onion's Eternal Staff
second pull - also 2/11 - Saintly Excalibur
First pull: Ashe's OSB, Genji Glove, Hamelin (what a pair to get)
Second pull: both of Alphinaud's relics
She has the Devil's own luck.