Yeah I got gold damage and elims as Lucio yesterday with a Zarya and two Offensive heroes on my team, never a good sign.
+1
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Example of me as Pharah and the Mercies I get on my team.
At 75 health. Ask for healing. Mercy is damage boosting Orisa vs like one person. I land in front of her. Nothing. I wave in her face. 5 seconds later she heals me.
This is what I get.
0
cptruggedI think it has something to do with free will.Registered Userregular
Meh. I don't agree with that. If you're damage and you've got gold damage, elims, and objective kills. I think you're doing a decent job at doing what you're supposed to do.
0
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
I mean it indicates that the damage heroes on the team aren't doing what they're supposed to do, that's the problem.
I mean it indicates that the damage heroes on the team aren't doing what they're supposed to do, that's the problem.
It could mean a lot of things. Maybe tanks aren't clearing space, maybe the supports are positioning badly and are exposed, maybe no one is protecting the supports and they're getting dived, maybe the DPS aren't focusing properly, maybe no one is positioning properly, maybe no one is making call outs and cleaning up kills, the list goes on.
Overwatch is complicated and dynamic. One weak link can cause chain reactions and fuck up everything.
Meh. I don't agree with that. If you're damage and you've got gold damage, elims, and objective kills. I think you're doing a decent job at doing what you're supposed to do.
Probably, but if your target priority is bad you still might not be.
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
0
cptruggedI think it has something to do with free will.Registered Userregular
Meh. I don't agree with that. If you're damage and you've got gold damage, elims, and objective kills. I think you're doing a decent job at doing what you're supposed to do.
Probably, but if your target priority is bad you still might not be.
I agree.
Though I find a lot of folks get it in their head that you have one job to do and that's it. For example, in one of my placements, I was soldier. The enemy had a very very strong Pharah with Mercy support. I would get the Mercy often, but the Pharah was smart and would duck back out of LOS till the Mercy returned. Now during those duck out times I was destroying their damage and second supports, as well as putting good damage on the tanks. But I didn't absolutely neutralize the Pharah. And because of that. I was told I should get off soldier cause I suck.
The truth is if I just just laser focused on hunting that Pharah, yeah I would have neutralized her. But she was good. So it would have taken us both out of most of the fight. And I did a lot of good sticking on the objective comparatively.
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
I finally got back to 3k credits after Uprising and buying the McCree stuff for this event, don't really know what to get now. I got Beekeeper Mei and that's about it, I got a stupid Young Genji skin which will never be used, and two duplicates Deadmaus Lucio.
Symmetra's skin looks cool, but considering how much of a slog it was to get back to the 3k credits, just hold out hope for the next event not being underwhelming.
0
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Meh. I don't agree with that. If you're damage and you've got gold damage, elims, and objective kills. I think you're doing a decent job at doing what you're supposed to do.
The way assists works it can be hard to tell if Elims matter or if everyone is pulling their weight.
That said I usually play tank and games where me and the other tank are gold and silver in both elims and objective time almost are never a good sign.
If you're gold damage as a tank and your dps aren't it may not necessarily be because your dps can't shoot it may also be because you're creating no space for them because you're charging into the enemy swinging your hammer while they re getting ripped apart
Because this happens
tyrannus on
+6
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
If you're gold damage as a tank and your dps aren't it may not necessarily be because your dps can't shoot it may also be because you're creating no space for them because you're charging into the enemy swinging your hammer while they re getting ripped apart
Because this happens
No Defense Matrix D.Vas(or Only Defense Matrix to save self) and Always Be Charging Reinhardts are usually the most guilty of this.
If you're gold damage as a tank and your dps aren't it may not necessarily be because your dps can't shoot it may also be because you're creating no space for them because you're charging into the enemy swinging your hammer while they re getting ripped apart
Because this happens
In my case, I was literally killing their winston, ana and soldier by myself, and then engaging another person afterwards.
Problem is, the other team also had someone of that caliber, so the other two guys (mercy and pharah) managed to kill my 5 guys...
0
Element BrianPeanut Butter ShillRegistered Userregular
Lucio can pepper someone with 1 damage and get it counted for an elim.
Elim's literally mean 'assists'
if you're lucio and fighting on the point and spamming your gun, i'd imagine you have a pretty high elim count
There's absolutely nothing less fun than being flat instantly killed by anything any one character can do by themselves, so I can see why they would want to cut down on this - but it doesn't really seem like they know what alternate direction they want to take with him either.
Can we get scatter arrow removed/nerfed next.
What does he have left after that in terms of defense? Lucky headshots?
Wall climb
But yeah, Hanzo isn't anywhere near OP right now so a significant nerf/removal of scatter arrow would require a compensatory buff somewhere else. Maybe just increase his arrow damage by 10%, I dunno.
But it's a very unfun ability to die to, IMO, which Blizz seems to generally care about.
Please consider the environment before printing this post.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
+3
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
There's absolutely nothing less fun than being flat instantly killed by anything any one character can do by themselves, so I can see why they would want to cut down on this - but it doesn't really seem like they know what alternate direction they want to take with him either.
Can we get scatter arrow removed/nerfed next.
What does he have left after that in terms of defense? Lucky headshots?
Wall climb
But yeah, Hanzo isn't anywhere near OP right now so a significant nerf/removal of scatter arrow would require a compensatory buff somewhere else. Maybe just increase his arrow damage by 10%, I dunno.
But it's a very unfun ability to die to, IMO, which Blizz seems to generally care about.
I think that's the general problem with Hancock. It feels shitty to die to rngarrow or random arrow spam. It's hard to tweak him to be less random without also making him do less dmg.
0
Sir Landsharkresting shark faceRegistered Userregular
Maybe Blizz should consider removing medals from the in-game scoreboard. You only get to see them at the match completion screen (that I always skip cuz holy hell does potg + voting + stats summary + SR update take a stupid amount of time).
Please consider the environment before printing this post.
+3
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I like being able to see medal progress in match. There's been plenty of times where, minutes into a match as a non-DPS, I would share gold at 1, 2, or 3 kills. It's a good indication that DPS isn't doing the job.
The trick then, of course, is convincing the team to restructure. Which is a whole other issue.
0
Sir Landsharkresting shark faceRegistered Userregular
I like being able to see medal progress in match. There's been plenty of times where, minutes into a match as a non-DPS, I would share gold at 1, 2, or 3 kills. It's a good indication that DPS isn't doing the job.
The trick then, of course, is convincing the team to restructure. Which is a whole other issue.
I don't think it is a good indication at all!
And the vast majority of people are not going to handle "someone that isn't me isn't doing their job" in any sort of constructive fashion IMO.
Please consider the environment before printing this post.
+4
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
I like being able to see medal progress in match. There's been plenty of times where, minutes into a match as a non-DPS, I would share gold at 1, 2, or 3 kills. It's a good indication that DPS isn't doing the job.
The trick then, of course, is convincing the team to restructure. Which is a whole other issue.
I don't think it is a good indication at all!
And the vast majority of people are not going to handle "someone that isn't me isn't doing their job" in any sort of constructive fashion IMO.
In my experience the best way to get folks to cooperate with swaps is to kind of act like a coach.
Like "This character is giving us trouble if some swapped to X it would really help."
"This character would go better with our composition than X, you think you can switch?"
"We couldn't really get anything started maybe we need to try X."
"Can anyone play X it would help a lot."
Basically instead of focusing on one person make it a team thing.
That said you will still get the "I'm not gonna swap no matter what folks." But such is life.
Dragkonias on
+1
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I like being able to see medal progress in match. There's been plenty of times where, minutes into a match as a non-DPS, I would share gold at 1, 2, or 3 kills. It's a good indication that DPS isn't doing the job.
The trick then, of course, is convincing the team to restructure. Which is a whole other issue.
I don't think it is a good indication at all!
And the vast majority of people are not going to handle "someone that isn't me isn't doing their job" in any sort of constructive fashion IMO.
Yes I acknowledged that.
My usual approach is to say "something isn't working out, our kill rate is really low," and either I or someone else will recommend we shuffle up. The success rate is probably... 1 out of 3 times?
0
Sir Landsharkresting shark faceRegistered Userregular
edited June 2017
You don't need medals to know if you have a team composition issue though. Or to know that the team, as a whole, is failing to accomplish the objective. The info you gain is how you are doing at these specific metrics relative to your team, which I don't think tell you anything useful about who needs to switch or how you should approach it.
As mentioned up thread, the issue could even be that you're playing too aggressive on a tank, but you look at your medals and think oh I've got gold elims and objective kills obviously the DPS need to switch.
Also, when there's only a low number of kills in the game, either due to getting stomped as a team or it just being early, you could actually be tied at gold elims with both of your DPS, as you all contributed to the few elims that your team managed to secure.
Sir Landshark on
Please consider the environment before printing this post.
0
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
You don't need medals to know if you have a team composition issue though. Or to know that the team, as a whole, is failing to accomplish the objective. The info you gain is how you are doing at these specific metrics relative to your team, which I don't think tell you anything useful about who needs to switch or how you should approach it.
As mentioned up thread, the issue could even be that you're playing too aggressive on a tank, but you look at your medals and think oh I've got gold elims and objective kills obviously the DPS need to switch.
Also, when there's only a low number of kills in the game, either due to getting stomped as a team or it just being early, you could actually be tied at gold elims with both of your DPS, as you all contributed to the few elims that your team managed to secure.
I think you're mistaking what I've said as being a vacuum argument or an absolute, like it's the only way to tell.
It's a possible sign to read into out of many. And it may not be that the team composition is bad, just who is handling what. Maybe a different player is a better Soldier 76 than our current, that sort of thing.
A lot of problems at lower SR can be solved by going Pharah and eating people who can't aim. I doesn't work for me in plat or higher, but it's served me well at gold.
I played some games in comp last night with random LFG folks. As we get in one guy locks Genji and another as Sombra. I expressed my concern mildly, but they all assured me it was fine. Sure enough we won easy.
Everyone was very flexible and listened to the team for what characters we needed. We won like 6 games in a row and I hit my season high.
I don't think I'm gonna talk shit on character picks anymore
A lot of problems at lower SR can be solved by going Pharah and eating people who can't aim. I doesn't work for me in plat or higher, but it's served me well at gold.
Kaplan responded to a bunch of stuff today, mostly about competitive, also that they have considered using original concept art (in reference to Lucio's) as skin ideas for the future.
Changes coming to Mystery Heroes. Low priority, but get rid of suicide to change hero, pre-match time, and do something about getting screwed when one team lucks into 5 DVas.
New policy coming for leavers that'd take into account how many seasons someone's been banned and lock them out of competitive permanently.
You don't need medals to know if you have a team composition issue though. Or to know that the team, as a whole, is failing to accomplish the objective. The info you gain is how you are doing at these specific metrics relative to your team, which I don't think tell you anything useful about who needs to switch or how you should approach it.
As mentioned up thread, the issue could even be that you're playing too aggressive on a tank, but you look at your medals and think oh I've got gold elims and objective kills obviously the DPS need to switch.
Also, when there's only a low number of kills in the game, either due to getting stomped as a team or it just being early, you could actually be tied at gold elims with both of your DPS, as you all contributed to the few elims that your team managed to secure.
I think you're mistaking what I've said as being a vacuum argument or an absolute, like it's the only way to tell.
It's a possible sign to read into out of many. And it may not be that the team composition is bad, just who is handling what. Maybe a different player is a better Soldier 76 than our current, that sort of thing.
My point is the information gained by medals is more harmful than beneficial in accomplishing the actual goal of winning the game.
I'm sure everyone's run into something like a friendly Junkrat that's feeding enemy Zarya charge and ensuring the enemy healers have their ults every push, but they won't switch because they've got that shiny gold damage medal.
There's probably people that get tilted when they see that early in the match they are medalling in damage on Lucio/Ana, and it impacts their play for the rest of the round.
I'm not immune to it either. It's so easy to pull up the score screen after a rough KOTH loss, see you've got 3 golds and think, well fuck these shitters, rather than focus on what you could still be doing better to win the next round.
Sir Landshark on
Please consider the environment before printing this post.
A lot of problems at lower SR can be solved by going Pharah and eating people who can't aim. I doesn't work for me in plat or higher, but it's served me well at gold.
It works in platinum I've found
Like almost too well
Huh, I haven't tried it at plat with my new mouse settings, but if it still works, I'm gonna ride that horse as long as I can.
I was trying to think of a scheme for how to keep relatively balanced compositions in Mystery Heroes, without sacrificing the random wackiness that can ensue.
1) Both teams receive the same playlist of randomly-selected heroes. So if the first character swap for Team A is to Torbjorn, then the first person to die on Team B will also swap to Torbjorn.
2) When selecting a new random hero, there may be no fewer than 1 of each character category (Offense/Defense/Tank/Support), and no more than 2 of any category. That shouldn't lock off too many characters to jump to, while still giving you some semblance of a normal team composition at all times.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
I was trying to think of a scheme for how to keep relatively balanced compositions in Mystery Heroes, without sacrificing the random wackiness that can ensue.
1) Both teams receive the same playlist of randomly-selected heroes. So if the first character swap for Team A is to Torbjorn, then the first person to die on Team B will also swap to Torbjorn.
2) When selecting a new random hero, there may be no fewer than 1 of each character category (Offense/Defense/Tank/Support), and no more than 2 of any category. That shouldn't lock off too many characters to jump to, while still giving you some semblance of a normal team composition at all times.
They could also just enforce the no-stacking rule. It's still possible then to end up with X tanks, but the odds are so SOOOO much lower.
Kaplan responded to a bunch of stuff today, mostly about competitive, also that they have considered using original concept art (in reference to Lucio's) as skin ideas for the future.
Changes coming to Mystery Heroes. Low priority, but get rid of suicide to change hero, pre-match time, and do something about getting screwed when one team lucks into 5 DVas.
New policy coming for leavers that'd take into account how many seasons someone's been banned and lock them out of competitive permanently.
More like there are hours of a pro streaming while intentionally throwing and their only response was empty platitudes and closing the thread. As far as I know the account he did it on still hasn't been banned or anything, much less any actual repercussions.
This basically reinforces that Blizzard is not doing anything to fix the problem.
HamHamJ on
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
Kaplan responded to a bunch of stuff today, mostly about competitive, also that they have considered using original concept art (in reference to Lucio's) as skin ideas for the future.
Changes coming to Mystery Heroes. Low priority, but get rid of suicide to change hero, pre-match time, and do something about getting screwed when one team lucks into 5 DVas.
New policy coming for leavers that'd take into account how many seasons someone's been banned and lock them out of competitive permanently.
Posts
Yeah I got gold damage and elims as Lucio yesterday with a Zarya and two Offensive heroes on my team, never a good sign.
At 75 health. Ask for healing. Mercy is damage boosting Orisa vs like one person. I land in front of her. Nothing. I wave in her face. 5 seconds later she heals me.
This is what I get.
It could mean a lot of things. Maybe tanks aren't clearing space, maybe the supports are positioning badly and are exposed, maybe no one is protecting the supports and they're getting dived, maybe the DPS aren't focusing properly, maybe no one is positioning properly, maybe no one is making call outs and cleaning up kills, the list goes on.
Overwatch is complicated and dynamic. One weak link can cause chain reactions and fuck up everything.
Probably, but if your target priority is bad you still might not be.
I agree.
Though I find a lot of folks get it in their head that you have one job to do and that's it. For example, in one of my placements, I was soldier. The enemy had a very very strong Pharah with Mercy support. I would get the Mercy often, but the Pharah was smart and would duck back out of LOS till the Mercy returned. Now during those duck out times I was destroying their damage and second supports, as well as putting good damage on the tanks. But I didn't absolutely neutralize the Pharah. And because of that. I was told I should get off soldier cause I suck.
The truth is if I just just laser focused on hunting that Pharah, yeah I would have neutralized her. But she was good. So it would have taken us both out of most of the fight. And I did a lot of good sticking on the objective comparatively.
Symmetra's skin looks cool, but considering how much of a slog it was to get back to the 3k credits, just hold out hope for the next event not being underwhelming.
The way assists works it can be hard to tell if Elims matter or if everyone is pulling their weight.
That said I usually play tank and games where me and the other tank are gold and silver in both elims and objective time almost are never a good sign.
Because this happens
No Defense Matrix D.Vas(or Only Defense Matrix to save self) and Always Be Charging Reinhardts are usually the most guilty of this.
In my case, I was literally killing their winston, ana and soldier by myself, and then engaging another person afterwards.
Problem is, the other team also had someone of that caliber, so the other two guys (mercy and pharah) managed to kill my 5 guys...
Elim's literally mean 'assists'
if you're lucio and fighting on the point and spamming your gun, i'd imagine you have a pretty high elim count
not saying you can't still blame you dps
just saying
elim's aren't everything, or anything really
Arch,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_goGR39m2k
Hey now I'll get my 50 duplicates needed to purchase something I want even faster!
Wall climb
But yeah, Hanzo isn't anywhere near OP right now so a significant nerf/removal of scatter arrow would require a compensatory buff somewhere else. Maybe just increase his arrow damage by 10%, I dunno.
But it's a very unfun ability to die to, IMO, which Blizz seems to generally care about.
https://streamable.com/8hodc
Reminds me of Meet The Engineer.
I think that's the general problem with Hancock. It feels shitty to die to rngarrow or random arrow spam. It's hard to tweak him to be less random without also making him do less dmg.
The trick then, of course, is convincing the team to restructure. Which is a whole other issue.
I don't think it is a good indication at all!
And the vast majority of people are not going to handle "someone that isn't me isn't doing their job" in any sort of constructive fashion IMO.
In my experience the best way to get folks to cooperate with swaps is to kind of act like a coach.
Like "This character is giving us trouble if some swapped to X it would really help."
"This character would go better with our composition than X, you think you can switch?"
"We couldn't really get anything started maybe we need to try X."
"Can anyone play X it would help a lot."
Basically instead of focusing on one person make it a team thing.
That said you will still get the "I'm not gonna swap no matter what folks." But such is life.
My usual approach is to say "something isn't working out, our kill rate is really low," and either I or someone else will recommend we shuffle up. The success rate is probably... 1 out of 3 times?
As mentioned up thread, the issue could even be that you're playing too aggressive on a tank, but you look at your medals and think oh I've got gold elims and objective kills obviously the DPS need to switch.
Also, when there's only a low number of kills in the game, either due to getting stomped as a team or it just being early, you could actually be tied at gold elims with both of your DPS, as you all contributed to the few elims that your team managed to secure.
It's a possible sign to read into out of many. And it may not be that the team composition is bad, just who is handling what. Maybe a different player is a better Soldier 76 than our current, that sort of thing.
Everyone was very flexible and listened to the team for what characters we needed. We won like 6 games in a row and I hit my season high.
I don't think I'm gonna talk shit on character picks anymore
PS - Local_H_Jay
Sub me on Youtube
And Twitch
We get the Hanzo/Widow combo.
The team decides quad DPS is the way to go.
And even then it isn't like toxic tilt. Its more deep sigh and "This is fine." tilt.
PS - Local_H_Jay
Sub me on Youtube
And Twitch
It works in platinum I've found
Like almost too well
Changes coming to Mystery Heroes. Low priority, but get rid of suicide to change hero, pre-match time, and do something about getting screwed when one team lucks into 5 DVas.
New policy coming for leavers that'd take into account how many seasons someone's been banned and lock them out of competitive permanently.
Intentionally throwing in competitive is getting more focus and will continue to be treated harshly.
Also, that big patch yesterday apparently accidentally contained a few Summer Games 2017 icons.
My point is the information gained by medals is more harmful than beneficial in accomplishing the actual goal of winning the game.
I'm sure everyone's run into something like a friendly Junkrat that's feeding enemy Zarya charge and ensuring the enemy healers have their ults every push, but they won't switch because they've got that shiny gold damage medal.
There's probably people that get tilted when they see that early in the match they are medalling in damage on Lucio/Ana, and it impacts their play for the rest of the round.
I'm not immune to it either. It's so easy to pull up the score screen after a rough KOTH loss, see you've got 3 golds and think, well fuck these shitters, rather than focus on what you could still be doing better to win the next round.
Huh, I haven't tried it at plat with my new mouse settings, but if it still works, I'm gonna ride that horse as long as I can.
1) Both teams receive the same playlist of randomly-selected heroes. So if the first character swap for Team A is to Torbjorn, then the first person to die on Team B will also swap to Torbjorn.
2) When selecting a new random hero, there may be no fewer than 1 of each character category (Offense/Defense/Tank/Support), and no more than 2 of any category. That shouldn't lock off too many characters to jump to, while still giving you some semblance of a normal team composition at all times.
They could also just enforce the no-stacking rule. It's still possible then to end up with X tanks, but the odds are so SOOOO much lower.
E:
Unrelated
More like there are hours of a pro streaming while intentionally throwing and their only response was empty platitudes and closing the thread. As far as I know the account he did it on still hasn't been banned or anything, much less any actual repercussions.
This basically reinforces that Blizzard is not doing anything to fix the problem.
Kaplan hinting they may add the original concept for Lucio as a skin down the road.
alright alright!