Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
I stopped maining Mercy for that reason.
But the idea that people would hate a char in a role that is usually hard to fill seems kind of odd to me. Who cares if they can't aim if they do their job and support you? Mercy is pretty much always a good pick as a support unless someone else already took her.
Besides, the game was intentionally designed to have a place for people with poor aim in FPS games to shine. Just because they can only be high rank on Mercy because no aim doesn't mean they aren't high rank. They are in Overwatch because that is the game that it is.
Of course I am biased as fuck, because even now after purposely attempting to perfect my aim and timing I still suck on almost any hitscan char. Still not 100% sure why I actually can with projectile chars though sometimes to the point of it looking like I am good at it.
Eh. He's about on the same level as Mercy as far as required aim. She has to be pointing in somewhat the right direction to lock on to folks or to Guardian Angel.
There is still a huge difference between them and Mccree/Widow.
Also recent Mystery Heroes points towards me no longer being completely worthless with Widow which makes me feel dirty.
I would say more so than aim, positioning is more important regardless of character. Like, flankers that constantly overextend and die pointlessly, doesn't matter if they have godlike aim if they fight 1v6 on even footing. Same with Mercy. If she focuses one person or follows a flanker, they made an error in where they placed themselves and likely killed themselves. With Rein, I can't just charge randomly and hope for the best (though that is fun). Targeting a Mercy or Bastion with the charge is every bit as important as learning how to shoot with sniper guys.
I'm not sure universally I'd agree, a Widow can be in the perfect spot but if they can't hit shit are basically worthless, but I'd definitely take someone with okay aim and positioning over somebody who was great at one and horrible at the other.
Really, the fact that characters need varying levels of those two things is part of the charm for me. There are a bunch of other skills that also matter differing amounts to characters. Folks like Lucio and Genji need you to have a really good sense of movement, how to control it and just what it looks like to the other side. For other characters that isn't anywhere near as relevant. There are a bunch of things like that.
cptruggedI think it has something to do with free will.Registered Userregular
I really wish I could play Tracer or Sombra like some of the ones I see against my team. Last night we had a Tracer who would simply pick a target in the back line, kill them, then run away. Over and over again. Then a Sombra that did the same thing. We'd try to get everyone to turn to kill them, but they'd already be gone with a kill under their belt.
Now I fully admit, because of our group. Both of those players were way way higher ranked than 5 out of 6 of our team. But every time I see a flanker like this, it really impresses me.
I really wish I could play Tracer or Sombra like some of the ones I see against my team. Last night we had a Tracer who would simply pick a target in the back line, kill them, then run away. Over and over again. Then a Sombra that did the same thing. We'd try to get everyone to turn to kill them, but they'd already be gone with a kill under their belt.
Now I fully admit, because of our group. Both of those players were way way higher ranked than 5 out of 6 of our team. But every time I see a flanker like this, it really impresses me.
Tracer is kinda hard to play where you're one clipping everyone
Yeah but Rein is usually super sweet anyway and a good Rein will have solid positioning because they can't fly aroundeverywhere. Like a good rein needs to know that he's creating space? He might have trouble with dps classes but I bet they could play tanks like Dva or Winston really well
"I will suggest that removing all influencers of Skill Rating besides winning & losing (adjusted to game difficulty) will result in a number of improvements to the Ranked Matchmaking experience, especially with an eye towards the OWL and the eSports possibilities for Overwatch in general."
His basic argument is that the only way to align player incentives in ranked is to eliminate all personal metrics so the only thing that matters is a win or loss (adjusted for relative skill of the teams, probably average SR). It's worth reading, partially because he's a very good DPS player, partially because it's far better thought through than most players can manage.
I'm really skeptical that there are so many people out there who are successfully bullshitting the MMR system to raise their rank even if it means they lose more games. Even if they do that, they're the ones who suffer for it, because they get ranked against better players and are increasingly more likely to lose. He hasn't presented any evidence that the rankings are actually inaccurate because of this behavior. I think a pure win/loss system that takes forever to accurately place someone (because of all the entropy introduced by teammates) causes far more problems in the long run. The longer you have people with mismatched MMRs running around in the system, the more it fucks up everybody else's MMRs in turn, because the outcome of a game with mismatched players in it is invalid and effectively corrupting the algorithm.
I think the discussion of incentives is worth considering, though, particularly when optimizing things like ult charge. By taking personal performance into account, the optimal team play for a support may be letting the other support heal a teammate to build overall ult charge. However, the personal incentive is to maximize one's own healing. Even if players aren't consciously taking those things into account, those incentives still play at the unconscious level. You may still be right, but it's worth considering.
Mercy one-tricks are hated the most because they apparently have no bleedover aim wise into any of the other characters
so you can be a plat, diamond, or masters mercy but be basically bronze or silver everyone else
Precisely. And if a team has multiple mercy one-tricks, they're basically doomed to lose.
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miscellaneousinsanitygrass grows, birds fly, sun shines,and brother, i hurt peopleRegistered Userregular
edited June 2017
so i was exploring the new map with a friend last night and they found out you can actually look through the telescope in the attacking spawn and there's a little voiceover from winston
also there's a button you can jump on to the right of it to open/close the observatory doors
as well as a couple text logs from winston/other researchers scattered throughout the level
e: apparently everyone gets their own telescope lines, that's rad
So on the topic of one-tricks, is there a good site that discusses the best/most common comps for a season? I played a little competitive yesterday and people were constantly complaining about the comps. I recognize that's just what some people do, but I'd like to have a little more insight so I can be constructive than my "I'm already playing a support what do you people want?"
PAD ID - 328,762,218
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TTODewbackPuts the drawl in ya'llI think I'm in HellRegistered Userregular
edited June 2017
usually you want at least one hitscan dps to take out pharahs and such.
other than that 2-2-2 is fine
the main thing is swapping shit up to counter the enemy team
as far as support goes. you usually dont want two single target healers .
ana + anyone is good and lucio+ mercy/zen is good.
Some other things to consider is stuff like Zarya not being a good solo tank or Zen not being a good solo healer. You can also think about ult combos like Zarya and Tracer or Pharah.
"I will suggest that removing all influencers of Skill Rating besides winning & losing (adjusted to game difficulty) will result in a number of improvements to the Ranked Matchmaking experience, especially with an eye towards the OWL and the eSports possibilities for Overwatch in general."
His basic argument is that the only way to align player incentives in ranked is to eliminate all personal metrics so the only thing that matters is a win or loss (adjusted for relative skill of the teams, probably average SR). It's worth reading, partially because he's a very good DPS player, partially because it's far better thought through than most players can manage.
I've been beating this drum forever but I'm glad someone that isn't a casual plat console player is taking it up
Please consider the environment before printing this post.
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Sir Landsharkresting shark faceRegistered Userregular
KasynI'm not saying I don't like our chances.She called me the master.Registered Userregular
I don't have much of an issue with the system's attempts at performance-based corrections. I have a very large group of friends that play fairly consistently and the last two seasons have shaken out - both in placements and in final ratings / roughly average ratings - pretty much in the skill order that we know is correct. Anecdotal, yes, but in principal it absolutely makes sense that not all wins should be worth the same. Your 2-9 Gengu getting carried shouldn't get as much value out of their win out of the support player who did everything.
Of course, this system has flaws - incentivizing stat-padding, sometimes at the expense of wins, or failing to recognize contributions that can't be easily quantified - but the flaws of simply making it W/L based are a bit less acceptable to me.
I think you can easily be a player with bad aim who does well at the highest levels of ranked. You just need to be able to play most if not all of the low-aim heroes so you have team comp options. It's okay if you can't play any offense except Reaper, just work it out with your team and maybe have somebody else switch if you need a McCree etc.
I think you can easily be a player with bad aim who does well at the highest levels of ranked. You just need to be able to play most if not all of the low-aim heroes so you have team comp options. It's okay if you can't play any offense except Reaper, just work it out with your team and maybe have somebody else switch if you need a McCree etc.
Definitely, but not necessarily "easily". Bad mechanics on an aim-free hero are only going to get compensated for by game sense and judgment that's completely up to snuff, and IMHO it's going to be easier and quicker for the average person to improve their aim with deliberate practice than it is to get a better feel on when to go with a tempo double rez as Mercy or something similar. The learning curve on stuff that requires presence of mind is underrated. Ever been new to MOBA's? Learning to last hit consistently is 10x more straightforward than developing exceptional map awareness.
I know you didn't necessarily take the position that I'm discussing, but I wanted a reason to go on this jag because I think the perception of bad players 'cheating' their way to high ranks with mechanically easy characters is quite unfair.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited June 2017
I played a few matches as new Reaper and what his new passive does is basically give you an extra shot when in the thick of fighting. If you're outside of 10 meters (15 if you're super l33t Reaper I guess) the health regen isn't that noticeable but up close you're able to basically negate what a Roadhog hook n' shoot does to you with two shots. It does make his ultimate more of a trouble because where as before a McCree or Widow could just plink him from a distance after killing one person, here he gets enough health back to stay spinning all time unless you all gang up on him.
To me, he's good enough to warrant making him a second attack choice after McCree since I won't play 76 (and always feel like when I play Tracer my good pestering skills are wasted by a team unwilling to push or kill the Genji with 5 health left)
I mean generally you should be avoiding flankers as a flanker
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
I'm not engaging any one person, it's an example of just blinking around in the back of the ranks to let the big guns push forward, that's what I consider pestering. I'm not looking to outright kill anyone except a Mercy, but you can whittle the others down for others to handle. They just never do because it's super important to charge that tank head on.
A replacement for the Scatter Arrow. A Bendy Arrow, once fired, follows an alternative arc. It's a bit difficult to describe the behavior I'm seeing in my head, so bear with me: The arrow's target position is in the direction that Hanzo's reticle is pointing, at an ever-increasing distance no slower than the arrow's own flight speed. The arrow attempts to point toward the designated spot by rotating its direction of motion toward it continuously.
The idea, ultimately, is that Hanzo can fire a Bendy Arrow, keep his reticle pointed at the target, and the Bendy Arrow will home in on them. Or, you could also trick-shot it around a corner by making a huge flick after the initial launch. This maintains the function of the Scatter Arrow (being to attack enemies behind cover) with much less input from randomness. I seem to recall Hanzo performing some tricks like this in the Dragons short, so I think it's not that far outside of the realm of possibility.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
fire an arrow that makes you POV control it like the rip tire (which means you're also vulnerable at the time), only it's at regular speed so you can't really just fly around in circles forever, at best it can turn a corner once. Give it the same cooldown time as a sonar arrow and that might work.
A replacement for the Scatter Arrow. A Bendy Arrow, once fired, follows an alternative arc. It's a bit difficult to describe the behavior I'm seeing in my head, so bear with me: The arrow's target position is in the direction that Hanzo's reticle is pointing, at an ever-increasing distance no slower than the arrow's own flight speed. The arrow attempts to point toward the designated spot by rotating its direction of motion toward it continuously.
The idea, ultimately, is that Hanzo can fire a Bendy Arrow, keep his reticle pointed at the target, and the Bendy Arrow will home in on them. Or, you could also trick-shot it around a corner by making a huge flick after the initial launch. This maintains the function of the Scatter Arrow (being to attack enemies behind cover) with much less input from randomness. I seem to recall Hanzo performing some tricks like this in the Dragons short, so I think it's not that far outside of the realm of possibility.
I have now fallen 350 SR after more than 10 games with at least two absolute assholes who refuse to ever switch off of a character that clearly isn't working, or even better, troll pick the second game "because it's lost anyways"
I'm think I'm done with this game for a few days at least
I really wish I could play Tracer or Sombra like some of the ones I see against my team. Last night we had a Tracer who would simply pick a target in the back line, kill them, then run away. Over and over again. Then a Sombra that did the same thing. We'd try to get everyone to turn to kill them, but they'd already be gone with a kill under their belt.
Now I fully admit, because of our group. Both of those players were way way higher ranked than 5 out of 6 of our team. But every time I see a flanker like this, it really impresses me.
Tracer is kinda hard to play where you're one clipping everyone
A full clip, if you hit every shot, will take anything under 250hp. It's a lot easier when you get a good feel for headshots on her.
She can theoretically kill two squishies with a single clip - not that I'd try.
Chance on
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I have now fallen 350 SR after more than 10 games with at least two absolute assholes who refuse to ever switch off of a character that clearly isn't working, or even better, troll pick the second game "because it's lost anyways"
I'm think I'm done with this game for a few days at least
If there was one thing I would add to the Competitive right now, it would be getting the "avoid player" option back but you can only use it on your own teammates.
Because if they would give us just one freaking way to filter out the one or two asshole teammates in every match who won't switch for shit no matter how horribly they're doing, the play experience would instantly improve immensely.
I have now fallen 350 SR after more than 10 games with at least two absolute assholes who refuse to ever switch off of a character that clearly isn't working, or even better, troll pick the second game "because it's lost anyways"
I'm think I'm done with this game for a few days at least
If there was one thing I would add to the Competitive right now, it would be getting the "avoid player" option back but you can only use it on your own teammates.
Because if they would give us just one freaking way to filter out the one or two asshole teammates in every match who won't switch for shit no matter how horribly they're doing, the play experience would instantly improve immensely.
I'd pay money for this option, seriously.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
I have now fallen 350 SR after more than 10 games with at least two absolute assholes who refuse to ever switch off of a character that clearly isn't working, or even better, troll pick the second game "because it's lost anyways"
I'm think I'm done with this game for a few days at least
Gonna be dead honest, but I lost a TON of interest in comp when I got my gold weapon finally. Just being forced to use the same few chars that I was any good at, and seeing stuff like that lost it's charm. I just think I am overall a 2k player and I should just accept it.
When I do QP with PA people we can kind of play mostly what we want, and I enjoy learning characters out of my safe zone and in all honesty it is making me overall better at the game. I HOPE to someday be good at hitscan, and that will NEVER happen in comp because I am basically asking to lose a game if I pick one right now.
I made it my goal to reach at least 3k with a different character "main" each season. My thinking is, my character pool increasing should enable me to play more roles effectively and thus get better overall.
I'll see what a short pause brings, maybe I was tired as well. I don't think so, though, because I individually played some of the best games I ever had, basically 1v4 killing enemy teams and what not.
I mean, when you see a reaper or roadhog run away from a winston that's jumping your healer, or a McCree just standing behind your Reinhardt shield doing nothing, while an enemy Zenyatta merrily keeps shooting at my shield, without moving.. You do wonder if some of these accounts aren't boosted or bought
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
I think that, honestly, if you are solo queueing comp the skill to rally the troops is going to result in more wins than just playing super well.
I actually can recount so many times where I would play a superb game and lose, and play subpar and win. There are only a few cases where I played my heart out in a hard fought win and honestly felt like I personally earned it.
Of course, you have much less control over the former skill than the latter -_-
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I have now fallen 350 SR after more than 10 games with at least two absolute assholes who refuse to ever switch off of a character that clearly isn't working, or even better, troll pick the second game "because it's lost anyways"
I'm think I'm done with this game for a few days at least
If there was one thing I would add to the Competitive right now, it would be getting the "avoid player" option back but you can only use it on your own teammates.
Because if they would give us just one freaking way to filter out the one or two asshole teammates in every match who won't switch for shit no matter how horribly they're doing, the play experience would instantly improve immensely.
I'd pay money for this option, seriously.
Constantly getting stuck with shitty uncooperative players who won't switch characters is basically my entire problem with the game right now, and it's pretty damn near a constant problem. It makes getting worthwhile games a total crapshoot, and I just don't have the time or the patience to consistently deal with rolling the dice on whether or not I get to play with people who actually try to win or with people who will happily fuck over everybody else in every single game they're in.
At least back when I played TF2 there were autobalance plugins to spread out the shitty selfish players.
I have now fallen 350 SR after more than 10 games with at least two absolute assholes who refuse to ever switch off of a character that clearly isn't working, or even better, troll pick the second game "because it's lost anyways"
I'm think I'm done with this game for a few days at least
If there was one thing I would add to the Competitive right now, it would be getting the "avoid player" option back but you can only use it on your own teammates.
Because if they would give us just one freaking way to filter out the one or two asshole teammates in every match who won't switch for shit no matter how horribly they're doing, the play experience would instantly improve immensely.
Yeah that's really how it should have worked from day one. Because there really isn't anything a troll can do to me if they're on the other team that they shouldn't be doing.
Maybe blizzard thinks it's an unfair advantage but eventually the worst trolls should get filtered into no man's land.
Hell alot of toxic players would probably avoid anyone who doesn't kneel before their might and filter themselves out.
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But the idea that people would hate a char in a role that is usually hard to fill seems kind of odd to me. Who cares if they can't aim if they do their job and support you? Mercy is pretty much always a good pick as a support unless someone else already took her.
Besides, the game was intentionally designed to have a place for people with poor aim in FPS games to shine. Just because they can only be high rank on Mercy because no aim doesn't mean they aren't high rank. They are in Overwatch because that is the game that it is.
Of course I am biased as fuck, because even now after purposely attempting to perfect my aim and timing I still suck on almost any hitscan char. Still not 100% sure why I actually can with projectile chars though sometimes to the point of it looking like I am good at it.
and aim the shoulder charge
and aim the fire strike
So yeah, I would say he needs aim
Eh. He's about on the same level as Mercy as far as required aim. She has to be pointing in somewhat the right direction to lock on to folks or to Guardian Angel.
There is still a huge difference between them and Mccree/Widow.
Also recent Mystery Heroes points towards me no longer being completely worthless with Widow which makes me feel dirty.
Really, the fact that characters need varying levels of those two things is part of the charm for me. There are a bunch of other skills that also matter differing amounts to characters. Folks like Lucio and Genji need you to have a really good sense of movement, how to control it and just what it looks like to the other side. For other characters that isn't anywhere near as relevant. There are a bunch of things like that.
Now I fully admit, because of our group. Both of those players were way way higher ranked than 5 out of 6 of our team. But every time I see a flanker like this, it really impresses me.
Tracer is kinda hard to play where you're one clipping everyone
Yeah but Rein is usually super sweet anyway and a good Rein will have solid positioning because they can't fly aroundeverywhere. Like a good rein needs to know that he's creating space? He might have trouble with dps classes but I bet they could play tanks like Dva or Winston really well
I think the discussion of incentives is worth considering, though, particularly when optimizing things like ult charge. By taking personal performance into account, the optimal team play for a support may be letting the other support heal a teammate to build overall ult charge. However, the personal incentive is to maximize one's own healing. Even if players aren't consciously taking those things into account, those incentives still play at the unconscious level. You may still be right, but it's worth considering.
Precisely. And if a team has multiple mercy one-tricks, they're basically doomed to lose.
also there's a button you can jump on to the right of it to open/close the observatory doors
as well as a couple text logs from winston/other researchers scattered throughout the level
e: apparently everyone gets their own telescope lines, that's rad
other than that 2-2-2 is fine
the main thing is swapping shit up to counter the enemy team
as far as support goes. you usually dont want two single target healers .
ana + anyone is good and lucio+ mercy/zen is good.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
I've been beating this drum forever but I'm glad someone that isn't a casual plat console player is taking it up
The number of rip tires I've saved my team from (seriously why do hitscans just bail instead of trying to shoot it) would disagree
Of course, this system has flaws - incentivizing stat-padding, sometimes at the expense of wins, or failing to recognize contributions that can't be easily quantified - but the flaws of simply making it W/L based are a bit less acceptable to me.
A new SFX was also added to DVa/Genji for eating/deflecting ults, but it's really not obvious at all.
That'd be a good thing
Definitely, but not necessarily "easily". Bad mechanics on an aim-free hero are only going to get compensated for by game sense and judgment that's completely up to snuff, and IMHO it's going to be easier and quicker for the average person to improve their aim with deliberate practice than it is to get a better feel on when to go with a tempo double rez as Mercy or something similar. The learning curve on stuff that requires presence of mind is underrated. Ever been new to MOBA's? Learning to last hit consistently is 10x more straightforward than developing exceptional map awareness.
I know you didn't necessarily take the position that I'm discussing, but I wanted a reason to go on this jag because I think the perception of bad players 'cheating' their way to high ranks with mechanically easy characters is quite unfair.
To me, he's good enough to warrant making him a second attack choice after McCree since I won't play 76 (and always feel like when I play Tracer my good pestering skills are wasted by a team unwilling to push or kill the Genji with 5 health left)
That's not really your job
I mean generally you should be avoiding flankers as a flanker
Even when we lost I was still in a better mood.
Hanzo Bendy Arrows
A replacement for the Scatter Arrow. A Bendy Arrow, once fired, follows an alternative arc. It's a bit difficult to describe the behavior I'm seeing in my head, so bear with me: The arrow's target position is in the direction that Hanzo's reticle is pointing, at an ever-increasing distance no slower than the arrow's own flight speed. The arrow attempts to point toward the designated spot by rotating its direction of motion toward it continuously.
The idea, ultimately, is that Hanzo can fire a Bendy Arrow, keep his reticle pointed at the target, and the Bendy Arrow will home in on them. Or, you could also trick-shot it around a corner by making a huge flick after the initial launch. This maintains the function of the Scatter Arrow (being to attack enemies behind cover) with much less input from randomness. I seem to recall Hanzo performing some tricks like this in the Dragons short, so I think it's not that far outside of the realm of possibility.
So the HL2 RPG?
I'm think I'm done with this game for a few days at least
A full clip, if you hit every shot, will take anything under 250hp. It's a lot easier when you get a good feel for headshots on her.
She can theoretically kill two squishies with a single clip - not that I'd try.
If there was one thing I would add to the Competitive right now, it would be getting the "avoid player" option back but you can only use it on your own teammates.
Because if they would give us just one freaking way to filter out the one or two asshole teammates in every match who won't switch for shit no matter how horribly they're doing, the play experience would instantly improve immensely.
I'd pay money for this option, seriously.
Gonna be dead honest, but I lost a TON of interest in comp when I got my gold weapon finally. Just being forced to use the same few chars that I was any good at, and seeing stuff like that lost it's charm. I just think I am overall a 2k player and I should just accept it.
When I do QP with PA people we can kind of play mostly what we want, and I enjoy learning characters out of my safe zone and in all honesty it is making me overall better at the game. I HOPE to someday be good at hitscan, and that will NEVER happen in comp because I am basically asking to lose a game if I pick one right now.
I'll see what a short pause brings, maybe I was tired as well. I don't think so, though, because I individually played some of the best games I ever had, basically 1v4 killing enemy teams and what not.
I mean, when you see a reaper or roadhog run away from a winston that's jumping your healer, or a McCree just standing behind your Reinhardt shield doing nothing, while an enemy Zenyatta merrily keeps shooting at my shield, without moving.. You do wonder if some of these accounts aren't boosted or bought
I actually can recount so many times where I would play a superb game and lose, and play subpar and win. There are only a few cases where I played my heart out in a hard fought win and honestly felt like I personally earned it.
Of course, you have much less control over the former skill than the latter -_-
Constantly getting stuck with shitty uncooperative players who won't switch characters is basically my entire problem with the game right now, and it's pretty damn near a constant problem. It makes getting worthwhile games a total crapshoot, and I just don't have the time or the patience to consistently deal with rolling the dice on whether or not I get to play with people who actually try to win or with people who will happily fuck over everybody else in every single game they're in.
At least back when I played TF2 there were autobalance plugins to spread out the shitty selfish players.
Yeah that's really how it should have worked from day one. Because there really isn't anything a troll can do to me if they're on the other team that they shouldn't be doing.
Maybe blizzard thinks it's an unfair advantage but eventually the worst trolls should get filtered into no man's land.
Hell alot of toxic players would probably avoid anyone who doesn't kneel before their might and filter themselves out.