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[Agents of SHIELD] Renewed for Season 6! And also 7! Still won't return until Summer 2019.

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  • SteevLSteevL What can I do for you? Registered User regular
    Oh man, finally saw last week's episode. Fun stuff. Hopefully I can watch tonight's episode tomorrow.

  • KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    Fitz, man...

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  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    Tonight:
    Fitz's love for Simmons not strong enough to break AIDA's hold over him :(

    True love is a lie! Burn it all down!

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  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    Eh,
    does killing someone who's already technically dead count?

  • Devlin_DragonusDevlin_Dragonus Gorgeous Dallas, TXRegistered User regular
    edited April 2017
    RT800 wrote: »
    Eh,
    does killing someone who's already technically dead count?
    It won't in court!
    I swear to god if they kill Ward before he can be transferred into an LMD body I will be livid!

    Devlin_Dragonus on
    I got nothing for you now. Try again later.

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  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    This episode is like a game of Jackass Genie taken way beyond the logical conclusion.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
  • skeldareskeldare Gresham, ORRegistered User regular
    Iain De Caestecker makes a good bad guy but they're making me really hate Fitz.

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  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    I don't know that you could be anything but sympathetic towards Fitz. It's pretty clear that
    AIDA clearly did more than just remove his biggest regret. She basically made him a completely different person. But now when they get him out he'll have to deal with all the awful stuff he did.

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  • SorceSorce Registered User regular
    Amusingly, there was a Prison Break reference this week!
    The name of the location where Radcliffe was is the name of the prison that Michael is currently locked away in this season.

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  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    Sorce wrote: »
    Amusingly, there was a Prison Break reference this week!
    The name of the location where Radcliffe was is the name of the prison that Michael is currently locked away in this season.
    Thank you for answering why that name was ringing bells for me. My mind must have wanted to forget watching the first episode of the revival.

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  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    I don't know that you could be anything but sympathetic towards Fitz. It's pretty clear that
    AIDA clearly did more than just remove his biggest regret. She basically made him a completely different person. But now when they get him out he'll have to deal with all the awful stuff he did.

    And in the short term (hopefully only short term), probably a
    break up with Simmons.

    Either from a "Boo hoo hoo, I'm so horrible, go find someone who isn't horrible" from Fitz or a "OMG, you don't really love me, and also I can't get over how I killed your LMD duplicate" from Simmons. Or maybe both. But I'd hope that the issues are entirely on Fitz's side, with Jemma being all "You jumped into a hole in the universe for me, and I know who you are better than you know you, shut up and kiss me."

    I can't really see how they won't mine this for at least some relationship DRAMA though.

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  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    I have faith they'll mine it by being awesome.
    Seriously though, what they get away with in their time slot. That final scene with Skye was D:

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  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    Jeezy kreezy, this storyline is dark.

    Great ep though.
    I guess all versions of Coulson are gadget-geeks. And was Mace's greatest regret not being Inhuman? It'd be interesting if he is exactly what Director Mace was supposed to be while in the Framework

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  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    Kneel wrote: »
    Jeezy kreezy, this storyline is dark.

    Great ep though.
    I guess all versions of Coulson are gadget-geeks. And was Mace's greatest regret not being Inhuman? It'd be interesting if he is exactly what Director Mace was supposed to be while in the Framework

    Mace
    I'm guessing his regret is that he wasn't the hero the world thought he was.
    So, The Matrix The Framework makes him a real hero, then screws the wish up by having him fight an ascendant Hydra with few resources.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
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  • ThisThis Registered User regular
    I liked that they acknowledged the fact that
    It's not just a case of fixing each person's biggest regret or whatever, and that this hellscape is just the logical consequence. That actually no, Aida fucked with it and made it the way it is.

    I don't like that
    They still have people saying things like "This isn't real". Sure, it was built as a simulation but this world sure seems real. It would be nice if Gemma and Skye were at least thinking and talking about just how real this place might be. Like, do the "simulated" people still suffer? Are they alive?

  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    I can't believe Radliffe didn't build in some fail-safes to everything.

    And it's not real. Aida is artificial. Damn Skynet getting delusions of grandeur.

    Hopefully they don't waste time with DRAMA, but it does seem likely.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • SteevLSteevL What can I do for you? Registered User regular
    I did some thinking just now. What if
    May actually knows she's in a simulation and is playing along? She's been in all its previous variations and apparently figured it out every time.

    How did she know to trick Daisy into revealing her identity through Mack? I think she might be setting things up there for something bigger.

    Or maybe Aida fed May that info and I'm thinking too much about this, which would be par for the course.

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  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    I have this sneaking suspicion that this is not a story line with an end. It's a clean break from the movie continuity, they could just decide this is the world the show lives in now.

    Fitz with the not so subtle Trump reference was sweet. First they lean way into the Hydra is Nazis bit, then they put real world campaign slogans into the Nazi mouth.

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  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited April 2017
    Fitz with the Trump reference was lame. It even sounded lame.

    I don't want real world politics in my entertainment, thanks. We know where Hollywood stands as well, don't need reminders.

    As for May:
    She's not playing along any more than Fitz is. They're just both brainwashed in the program without Phil's experience.

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
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  • GdiguyGdiguy San Diego, CARegistered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Fitz with the Trump reference was lame. It even sounded lame.

    I don't want real world politics in my entertainment, thanks. We know where Hollywood stands as well, don't need reminders.

    As for May:
    She's not playing along any more than Fitz is. They're just both brainwashed in the program without Phil's experience.

    (May) I don't know...
    That theory does address one major question I had with that scene - why would May go get Mack and use him to do that as opposed to anyone else? If she's totally into the Framework reality, Mack isn't on Hydra's radar at all, and I don't think they ever showed Skye searching for him... it seemed like the whole Mack sequence came out of nowhere, whereas if May was using it to test whether Daisy really was aware it at least starts to make sense

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited April 2017
    Gdiguy wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Fitz with the Trump reference was lame. It even sounded lame.

    I don't want real world politics in my entertainment, thanks. We know where Hollywood stands as well, don't need reminders.

    As for May:
    She's not playing along any more than Fitz is. They're just both brainwashed in the program without Phil's experience.

    (May) I don't know...
    That theory does address one major question I had with that scene - why would May go get Mack and use him to do that as opposed to anyone else? If she's totally into the Framework reality, Mack isn't on Hydra's radar at all, and I don't think they ever showed Skye searching for him... it seemed like the whole Mack sequence came out of nowhere, whereas if May was using it to test whether Daisy really was aware it at least starts to make sense
    Or, more likely, Aida Madame Hydra told May to bring in Mack and gave her the lines to feed to him.

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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    I do kind of wonder if Fitz
    is aware he's in the Framework and killed Agnes to maintain his cover, because who cares, it's a computer program. He just deleted a file.

    It does bother me a bit that Daisy and Simmons, who both know they're in a simulation, react the same way to seeing fake people mistreated as if they were real. Like, no slowly coming around to that point of view, just, "Omigod, this fake person is being mistreated by other fake people, this is an abomination!"

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    I do kind of wonder if Fitz
    is aware he's in the Framework and killed Agnes to maintain his cover, because who cares, it's a computer program. He just deleted a file.

    It does bother me a bit that Daisy and Simmons, who both know they're in a simulation, react the same way to seeing fake people mistreated as if they were real. Like, no slowly coming around to that point of view, just, "Omigod, this fake person is being mistreated by other fake people, this is an abomination!"
    But Agnes wasn't a computer program. She was a real person that Radcliffe put into the Framework. He even said so right before Fitz showed up!

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  • GdiguyGdiguy San Diego, CARegistered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Gdiguy wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Fitz with the Trump reference was lame. It even sounded lame.

    I don't want real world politics in my entertainment, thanks. We know where Hollywood stands as well, don't need reminders.

    As for May:
    She's not playing along any more than Fitz is. They're just both brainwashed in the program without Phil's experience.

    (May) I don't know...
    That theory does address one major question I had with that scene - why would May go get Mack and use him to do that as opposed to anyone else? If she's totally into the Framework reality, Mack isn't on Hydra's radar at all, and I don't think they ever showed Skye searching for him... it seemed like the whole Mack sequence came out of nowhere, whereas if May was using it to test whether Daisy really was aware it at least starts to make sense
    Or, more likely, Aida Madame Hydra told May to bring in Mack and gave her the lines to feed to him.
    Why would she, though? Aida clearly knows Simmons is self-aware, and is in control of the Framework enough to notice their exit and close it, and to edit people's memories; could she really not be aware at this point that Daisy came in with Simmons?

    Or is the idea just the typical bad guy 'Aida is enjoying playing with the team's minds and having them torture each other'

  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The PIT, level 26Registered User regular
    Make an AI sophisticated enough and they are people.
    I *love* that Madame Hydra got angry about the 'artificial' part of her slave-name. One of my favorite AI races from science fiction hates being called AIs, taking offense at the idea that their intelligence is artificial just because the brains containing it are synthetic. In their view whether the brain is organic or synthetic, the intelligence it generates is equally 'real'.

    Really interested to see how the 'AI' people the Framework develop. Recall that all of this is based on the seemingly supernatural power of the Darkhold, a magic book written by (if the show holds true to the comics) monster gods from a universe of darkness. There's no limit to what could come about from it.

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  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    Maybe...
    We already know there's a time dilatation effect where time in the Framework passes much faster than in the real world. Add to that that everything in it is based on real history and events and people, just slanted a certain way. Is it really crazy to think that a sinister version of "The Inner Light" is playing out for everyone, but with the "Picard accepts his probe life as real and his time on the Enterprise as a dream" conversion happening much faster because, again, the Framework is a fun house mirror version of reality, so there's less of a hurdle to acceptance?

    May has been in there for, what, years Framework time? The others maybe weeks to months? More than enough time for reality to fade away.

    I mean, I'm probably wrong (Radcliffe), but I think it's more interesting than straight brainwashing or reprogramming. And it adds some danger to prolonged exposure for Daisy and Jemma.

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  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    I do kind of wonder if Fitz
    is aware he's in the Framework and killed Agnes to maintain his cover, because who cares, it's a computer program. He just deleted a file.

    It does bother me a bit that Daisy and Simmons, who both know they're in a simulation, react the same way to seeing fake people mistreated as if they were real. Like, no slowly coming around to that point of view, just, "Omigod, this fake person is being mistreated by other fake people, this is an abomination!"
    But Agnes wasn't a computer program. She was a real person that Radcliffe put into the Framework. He even said so right before Fitz showed up!

    Even if that's true:
    It's not real, so it's not like she can't just be restored. But then this thing was designed by Radcliffe/Darkhold for shit it seems.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited April 2017
    Moved to the appropriate thread.

    Harry Dresden on
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    I do kind of wonder if Fitz
    is aware he's in the Framework and killed Agnes to maintain his cover, because who cares, it's a computer program. He just deleted a file.

    It does bother me a bit that Daisy and Simmons, who both know they're in a simulation, react the same way to seeing fake people mistreated as if they were real. Like, no slowly coming around to that point of view, just, "Omigod, this fake person is being mistreated by other fake people, this is an abomination!"
    But Agnes wasn't a computer program. She was a real person that Radcliffe put into the Framework. He even said so right before Fitz showed up!

    Even if that's true:
    It's not real, so it's not like she can't just be restored. But then this thing was designed by Radcliffe/Darkhold for shit it seems.

    Aida probably is running the framework on hardmode. No savescumming.

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  • Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    I have this sneaking suspicion that this is not a story line with an end. It's a clean break from the movie continuity, they could just decide this is the world the show lives in now.

    Fitz with the not so subtle Trump reference was sweet. First they lean way into the Hydra is Nazis bit, then they put real world campaign slogans into the Nazi mouth.

    and he followed it up with a 'we have ways of making you talk' just to drive the Nazi point home.

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Madame HYDRA is legit scarier than evil!AIDA.

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  • NinjeffNinjeff Registered User regular
    The relationship between Fitz and Simmons never ceases to amaze me.
    I really felt the genuine pain form Jemma when he shot Agnes. I was half expecting him to shoot Jemma (and just wound her).
    Also, I guess the characters from SHIELD dont have to wind up in Avenger Infinity War is there are no characters left..... :(

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Ninjeff wrote: »
    The relationship between Fitz and Simmons never ceases to amaze me.
    I really felt the genuine pain form Jemma when he shot Agnes. I was half expecting him to shoot Jemma (and just wound her).
    Also, I guess the characters from SHIELD dont have to wind up in Avenger Infinity War is there are no characters left..... :(
    I'm sad to say the tv branch will have no direct appearances in the movies, the two divisions just don't want to do that right now. That said, if anyone on AoS was going to appear I'd say it as Coulson.

  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    I do kind of wonder if Fitz
    is aware he's in the Framework and killed Agnes to maintain his cover, because who cares, it's a computer program. He just deleted a file.

    It does bother me a bit that Daisy and Simmons, who both know they're in a simulation, react the same way to seeing fake people mistreated as if they were real. Like, no slowly coming around to that point of view, just, "Omigod, this fake person is being mistreated by other fake people, this is an abomination!"
    But Agnes wasn't a computer program. She was a real person that Radcliffe put into the Framework. He even said so right before Fitz showed up!

    Even if that's true:
    It's not real, so it's not like she can't just be restored. But then this thing was designed by Radcliffe/Darkhold for shit it seems.

    Aida probably is running the framework on hardmode. No savescumming.

    ...which explains why this episode gave me serious XCOM vibes. Underground base, drones, FTOL insertion in the mission area, Ward is clearly a Sharpshooter (he specced Lightning Hands/Killzone). Just need some of those juicy HYDRA burgers to make it complete...

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  • NinjeffNinjeff Registered User regular
    Ninjeff wrote: »
    The relationship between Fitz and Simmons never ceases to amaze me.
    I really felt the genuine pain form Jemma when he shot Agnes. I was half expecting him to shoot Jemma (and just wound her).
    Also, I guess the characters from SHIELD dont have to wind up in Avenger Infinity War is there are no characters left..... :(
    I'm sad to say the tv branch will have no direct appearances in the movies, the two divisions just don't want to do that right now. That said, if anyone on AoS was going to appear I'd say it as Coulson.
    I knew that, but still find it 100% unacceptable. I feel like we -as fans- have faithfully gone a long on this ride with Marvel for 10 ears now,
    and god damnit they OWE it to the fans to put every existing MCU hero into one giant spread in Infinity War part 2. Regardless of how much sense it makes.
    I realize that fantasy is not based on reality, but i still feel like they owe it to us!

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  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    With the Russos doing Infinity War I expect the whole Community cast to get a cameo in that before is a crossover with anything from AoS or Netflix

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    With the Russos doing Infinity War I expect the whole Community cast to get a cameo in that before is a crossover with anything from AoS or Netflix

    Alison Brie can be movie!Squirrel Girl.

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  • BethrynBethryn Registered User regular
    So.. Project Looking Glass?

    I'm curious that it's something Fitz is building within the Framework.

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  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Bethryn wrote: »
    So.. Project Looking Glass?

    I'm curious that it's something Fitz is building within the Framework.
    My guess would be that Jemma's return button isn't the only one that stopped working and Aida is also trapped. Or at least this version of Aida. She might be a version of Aida that the LMD Aida installed in the Framework to keep an eye on it. Is Madame Hydra Clu from Tron? Then Fitz would be Rinzler..., and Radcliff is Castor.

    Harry DresdenZilla360
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Bethryn wrote: »
    So.. Project Looking Glass?

    I'm curious that it's something Fitz is building within the Framework.

    Speculation:
    Going by the name, it might be a way to take the created individuals out of the Framework and into the real world.

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