-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
edited November 2017
They're not... they're not making a law that Battlefront 2's loot boxes are gambling.
They're investigating whether loot boxes in general in gaming are gambling, and only because Battlefront 2 has pushed this predatory practice in video games into the limelight. The only thing different about Battlefront 2 is it's a very popular IP that's been very aggressively advertised and very aggressively decried which has put this particular mechanic right in front of peoples faces who normally don't see it.
Even if this does result in new laws over loot crates being gambling and regulated, it will not be singled against Battlefront 2, and will retroactively apply to all games that currently use the mechanic. There's no 'uneven law enforcement' or even any new laws yet. EA just managed to create the perfect situation to put this practice into a situation where it finally got noticed for what it is.
Though at this point it's probably worth moving this to it's own thread?
So belgium has some kind of selective enforcement of their gambling laws? Since a lot of other games like overwatch also have loot box gambling and haven't been investigated? I mean fuck sake CS GO has literal actual gambling associated with their loot boxes.
They should probably all go. But only if things like Magic The Gathering and baseball cards go as well - those would be the systems that I grew up on that lead me to look at lootboxes and say, "Eh? Whatever. How is this significantly worse than any CCG people have been playing for decades at this point?"
None of those other games have ever attracted enough of a controversy to get politicians to take much interest before. You could probably more accurately attribute lack of action on other games to unawareness rather than selective enforcement.
Selective enforcement is scary, especially selective enforcement by public outrage. Its not something that should ever be cheered on even if its to a group you dislike.
I also would have to see how a law could be written for gambling that would care more about game mechanics than the gambling itself. That would either be the vaguest law ever or the most specifically written. And why only console games? Why not cell phone games like galaxy of heroes also a star wars IP? I see this as an overzealous government reach, and I can not approve of it.
I mean, a big difference is that with a TCG, if you got a card you didn't want, you could theoretically trade it for something. It's right there in the name - trading card game. And theoretically cards can be balanced in such a way that the game isn't pay-to-win outside of schoolyard 'I filled my entire deck with a card that isn't tournament legal' shenanigans.
The shit you get in lootboxes can't be traded, so any value it has has to be intrinsic to the player. If you get a mod for a class that you don't like and won't play, its value is effectively zero. And any value you do ascribe to a mod/card/item is strictly temporary, since the servers will shut down, rendering value moot.
There's plenty differentiating pay-to-win loot boxes from TCGs.
So belgium has some kind of selective enforcement of their gambling laws? Since a lot of other games like overwatch also have loot box gambling and haven't been investigated? I mean fuck sake CS GO has literal actual gambling associated with their loot boxes.
They should probably all go. But only if things like Magic The Gathering and baseball cards go as well - those would be the systems that I grew up on that lead me to look at lootboxes and say, "Eh? Whatever. How is this significantly worse than any CCG people have been playing for decades at this point?"
None of those other games have ever attracted enough of a controversy to get politicians to take much interest before. You could probably more accurately attribute lack of action on other games to unawareness rather than selective enforcement.
Selective enforcement is scary, especially selective enforcement by public outrage. Its not something that should ever be cheered on even if its to a group you dislike.
I also would have to see how a law could be written for gambling that would care more about game mechanics than the gambling itself. That would either be the vaguest law ever or the most specifically written. And why only console games? Why not cell phone games like galaxy of heroes also a star wars IP? I see this as an overzealous government reach, and I can not approve of it.
I mean, a big difference is that with a TCG, if you got a card you didn't want, you could theoretically trade it for something. It's right there in the name - trading card game. And theoretically cards can be balanced in such a way that the game isn't pay-to-win outside of schoolyard 'I filled my entire deck with a card that isn't tournament legal' shenanigans.
The shit you get in lootboxes can't be traded, so any value it has has to be intrinsic to the player. If you get a mod for a class that you don't like and won't play, its value is effectively zero. And any value you do ascribe to a mod/card/item is strictly temporary, since the servers will shut down, rendering value moot.
There's plenty differentiating pay-to-win loot boxes from TCGs.
What does any of that have to do with gambling? Buying packs of cards and hoping you get what you want is gambling in exactly the same way that digital lootboxes are. You seem to be saying that a secondary resale market mitigates that somehow, but it doesn't do anything to change the nature of the actual gamble. It does allow you to possibly recoup some losses, but even that is completely dependent on the luck of the draw and the current meta of the game and so on. If BF2 increased the credit refund for duplicate cards, or allowed you to sell any unwanted cards for a set number of credits would this lootbox system suddenly be ok?
The temporary nature of things because it is digital is no different from any online CCG, any of which could shut down servers at any time, theoretically, so *shrug*?
So belgium has some kind of selective enforcement of their gambling laws? Since a lot of other games like overwatch also have loot box gambling and haven't been investigated? I mean fuck sake CS GO has literal actual gambling associated with their loot boxes.
They should probably all go. But only if things like Magic The Gathering and baseball cards go as well - those would be the systems that I grew up on that lead me to look at lootboxes and say, "Eh? Whatever. How is this significantly worse than any CCG people have been playing for decades at this point?"
None of those other games have ever attracted enough of a controversy to get politicians to take much interest before. You could probably more accurately attribute lack of action on other games to unawareness rather than selective enforcement.
Selective enforcement is scary, especially selective enforcement by public outrage. Its not something that should ever be cheered on even if its to a group you dislike.
I also would have to see how a law could be written for gambling that would care more about game mechanics than the gambling itself. That would either be the vaguest law ever or the most specifically written. And why only console games? Why not cell phone games like galaxy of heroes also a star wars IP? I see this as an overzealous government reach, and I can not approve of it.
I mean, a big difference is that with a TCG, if you got a card you didn't want, you could theoretically trade it for something. It's right there in the name - trading card game. And theoretically cards can be balanced in such a way that the game isn't pay-to-win outside of schoolyard 'I filled my entire deck with a card that isn't tournament legal' shenanigans.
The shit you get in lootboxes can't be traded, so any value it has has to be intrinsic to the player. If you get a mod for a class that you don't like and won't play, its value is effectively zero. And any value you do ascribe to a mod/card/item is strictly temporary, since the servers will shut down, rendering value moot.
There's plenty differentiating pay-to-win loot boxes from TCGs.
What does any of that have to do with gambling? Buying packs of cards and hoping you get what you want is gambling in exactly the same way that digital lootboxes are. You seem to be saying that a secondary resale market mitigates that somehow, but it doesn't do anything to change the nature of the actual gamble. It does allow you to possibly recoup some losses, but even that is completely dependent on the luck of the draw and the current meta of the game and so on. If BF2 increased the credit refund for duplicate cards, or allowed you to sell any unwanted cards for a set number of credits would this lootbox system suddenly be ok?
The temporary nature of things because it is digital is no different from any online CCG, any of which could shut down servers at any time, theoretically, so *shrug*?
No, that's stupid, I'm sorry. There's an obvious difference between resale value in CASH and resale value in fungamebux. I'm not saying Trading Card Games are legally bulletproof, but there's legal precedent there, whereas digital item loot boxes have only existed within the last 10-15 years.
0
KetarCome on upstairswe're having a partyRegistered Userregular
So belgium has some kind of selective enforcement of their gambling laws? Since a lot of other games like overwatch also have loot box gambling and haven't been investigated? I mean fuck sake CS GO has literal actual gambling associated with their loot boxes.
They should probably all go. But only if things like Magic The Gathering and baseball cards go as well - those would be the systems that I grew up on that lead me to look at lootboxes and say, "Eh? Whatever. How is this significantly worse than any CCG people have been playing for decades at this point?"
None of those other games have ever attracted enough of a controversy to get politicians to take much interest before. You could probably more accurately attribute lack of action on other games to unawareness rather than selective enforcement.
Selective enforcement is scary, especially selective enforcement by public outrage. Its not something that should ever be cheered on even if its to a group you dislike.
I also would have to see how a law could be written for gambling that would care more about game mechanics than the gambling itself. That would either be the vaguest law ever or the most specifically written. And why only console games? Why not cell phone games like galaxy of heroes also a star wars IP? I see this as an overzealous government reach, and I can not approve of it.
I mean, a big difference is that with a TCG, if you got a card you didn't want, you could theoretically trade it for something. It's right there in the name - trading card game. And theoretically cards can be balanced in such a way that the game isn't pay-to-win outside of schoolyard 'I filled my entire deck with a card that isn't tournament legal' shenanigans.
The shit you get in lootboxes can't be traded, so any value it has has to be intrinsic to the player. If you get a mod for a class that you don't like and won't play, its value is effectively zero. And any value you do ascribe to a mod/card/item is strictly temporary, since the servers will shut down, rendering value moot.
There's plenty differentiating pay-to-win loot boxes from TCGs.
What does any of that have to do with gambling? Buying packs of cards and hoping you get what you want is gambling in exactly the same way that digital lootboxes are. You seem to be saying that a secondary resale market mitigates that somehow, but it doesn't do anything to change the nature of the actual gamble. It does allow you to possibly recoup some losses, but even that is completely dependent on the luck of the draw and the current meta of the game and so on. If BF2 increased the credit refund for duplicate cards, or allowed you to sell any unwanted cards for a set number of credits would this lootbox system suddenly be ok?
The temporary nature of things because it is digital is no different from any online CCG, any of which could shut down servers at any time, theoretically, so *shrug*?
No, that's stupid, I'm sorry. There's an obvious difference between resale value in CASH and resale value in fungamebux. I'm not saying Trading Card Games are legally bulletproof, but there's legal precedent there, whereas digital item loot boxes have only existed within the last 10-15 years.
Cool. Please link some of that legal precedent. Also please explain how being able to resell some cards for cash sometimes makes it not gambling.
So belgium has some kind of selective enforcement of their gambling laws? Since a lot of other games like overwatch also have loot box gambling and haven't been investigated? I mean fuck sake CS GO has literal actual gambling associated with their loot boxes.
They should probably all go. But only if things like Magic The Gathering and baseball cards go as well - those would be the systems that I grew up on that lead me to look at lootboxes and say, "Eh? Whatever. How is this significantly worse than any CCG people have been playing for decades at this point?"
None of those other games have ever attracted enough of a controversy to get politicians to take much interest before. You could probably more accurately attribute lack of action on other games to unawareness rather than selective enforcement.
Selective enforcement is scary, especially selective enforcement by public outrage. Its not something that should ever be cheered on even if its to a group you dislike.
I also would have to see how a law could be written for gambling that would care more about game mechanics than the gambling itself. That would either be the vaguest law ever or the most specifically written. And why only console games? Why not cell phone games like galaxy of heroes also a star wars IP? I see this as an overzealous government reach, and I can not approve of it.
I mean, a big difference is that with a TCG, if you got a card you didn't want, you could theoretically trade it for something. It's right there in the name - trading card game. And theoretically cards can be balanced in such a way that the game isn't pay-to-win outside of schoolyard 'I filled my entire deck with a card that isn't tournament legal' shenanigans.
The shit you get in lootboxes can't be traded, so any value it has has to be intrinsic to the player. If you get a mod for a class that you don't like and won't play, its value is effectively zero. And any value you do ascribe to a mod/card/item is strictly temporary, since the servers will shut down, rendering value moot.
There's plenty differentiating pay-to-win loot boxes from TCGs.
What does any of that have to do with gambling? Buying packs of cards and hoping you get what you want is gambling in exactly the same way that digital lootboxes are. You seem to be saying that a secondary resale market mitigates that somehow, but it doesn't do anything to change the nature of the actual gamble. It does allow you to possibly recoup some losses, but even that is completely dependent on the luck of the draw and the current meta of the game and so on. If BF2 increased the credit refund for duplicate cards, or allowed you to sell any unwanted cards for a set number of credits would this lootbox system suddenly be ok?
The temporary nature of things because it is digital is no different from any online CCG, any of which could shut down servers at any time, theoretically, so *shrug*?
No, that's stupid, I'm sorry. There's an obvious difference between resale value in CASH and resale value in fungamebux. I'm not saying Trading Card Games are legally bulletproof, but there's legal precedent there, whereas digital item loot boxes have only existed within the last 10-15 years.
Cool. Please link some of that legal precedent. Also please explain how being able to resell some cards for cash sometimes makes it not gambling.
Are you serious in thinking that trading cards have never been the subject of a court case? Sounds like you need to do some reading, don't let me stop you.
Edit: To elaborate, we're not doing the thing where you suggest I "prove" something to you and then wait for me to go look up legal cases or news articles for you to peruse. You're trying to prove a negative (this isn't gambling!), so have fun doing that. I'm not playing this sad game with you.
shoeboxjeddy on
+1
KetarCome on upstairswe're having a partyRegistered Userregular
Generally, when one states that there is evidence of something, it is considered poor form to not actually be able to provide said evidence. Like now.
There is legal precedent for lawsuits regarding trading cards. Fact. It is not necessarily a totally settled matter (as I already said), but here is your chance to provide a case where someone WON a case proving TCG's or baseball cards or whatever was gambling. Or a loot box lawsuit. You know, anything that would contradict my basic point that trading cards are a known issue and loot boxes aren't. I think what is happening with BF2 will be the very start of legal precedent with loot box economies.
+2
HeatwaveCome, now, and walk the path of explosions with me!Registered Userregular
So belgium has some kind of selective enforcement of their gambling laws? Since a lot of other games like overwatch also have loot box gambling and haven't been investigated? I mean fuck sake CS GO has literal actual gambling associated with their loot boxes.
They should probably all go. But only if things like Magic The Gathering and baseball cards go as well - those would be the systems that I grew up on that lead me to look at lootboxes and say, "Eh? Whatever. How is this significantly worse than any CCG people have been playing for decades at this point?"
None of those other games have ever attracted enough of a controversy to get politicians to take much interest before. You could probably more accurately attribute lack of action on other games to unawareness rather than selective enforcement.
Selective enforcement is scary, especially selective enforcement by public outrage. Its not something that should ever be cheered on even if its to a group you dislike.
I also would have to see how a law could be written for gambling that would care more about game mechanics than the gambling itself. That would either be the vaguest law ever or the most specifically written. And why only console games? Why not cell phone games like galaxy of heroes also a star wars IP? I see this as an overzealous government reach, and I can not approve of it.
I mean, a big difference is that with a TCG, if you got a card you didn't want, you could theoretically trade it for something. It's right there in the name - trading card game. And theoretically cards can be balanced in such a way that the game isn't pay-to-win outside of schoolyard 'I filled my entire deck with a card that isn't tournament legal' shenanigans.
The shit you get in lootboxes can't be traded, so any value it has has to be intrinsic to the player. If you get a mod for a class that you don't like and won't play, its value is effectively zero. And any value you do ascribe to a mod/card/item is strictly temporary, since the servers will shut down, rendering value moot.
There's plenty differentiating pay-to-win loot boxes from TCGs.
What does any of that have to do with gambling? Buying packs of cards and hoping you get what you want is gambling in exactly the same way that digital lootboxes are. You seem to be saying that a secondary resale market mitigates that somehow, but it doesn't do anything to change the nature of the actual gamble. It does allow you to possibly recoup some losses, but even that is completely dependent on the luck of the draw and the current meta of the game and so on. If BF2 increased the credit refund for duplicate cards, or allowed you to sell any unwanted cards for a set number of credits would this lootbox system suddenly be ok?
The temporary nature of things because it is digital is no different from any online CCG, any of which could shut down servers at any time, theoretically, so *shrug*?
No, that's stupid, I'm sorry. There's an obvious difference between resale value in CASH and resale value in fungamebux. I'm not saying Trading Card Games are legally bulletproof, but there's legal precedent there, whereas digital item loot boxes have only existed within the last 10-15 years.
Cool. Please link some of that legal precedent. Also please explain how being able to resell some cards for cash sometimes makes it not gambling.
Are you serious in thinking that trading cards have never been the subject of a court case? Sounds like you need to do some reading, don't let me stop you.
Edit: To elaborate, we're not doing the thing where you suggest I "prove" something to you and then wait for me to go look up legal cases or news articles for you to peruse. You're trying to prove a negative (this isn't gambling!), so have fun doing that. I'm not playing this sad game with you.
I'll use this unnecessarily aggressive and off topic post to remind people that this is not a general loot box thread.
Yeah, stability patch.. is stable. I don't crash or disconnect from each match now and general stability seems way better. I actually had 12 kills and 6 assists! It's hard to to protect those walkers out in the open but damnit I was there with bells on!
Did some star fighter this morning for the daily kills as an interceptor. I had one amazing moment of diving bombing a dude, getting attacked from behind and then loop de looping my attacker and fragging him too. Had a moment that made me laugh in that I vaped an enemy and immediately got exploded by a friendly cruiser emerging from hyperspace.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
So have they tweaked progression more since they turned off the store?
Nope. I suspect they won't release those changes until The Last Jedi content comes out. They also have to do the math and test the changes so I suspect that will take some time.
So have they tweaked progression more since they turned off the store?
Nope. I suspect they won't release those changes until The Last Jedi content comes out. They also have to do the math and test the changes so I suspect that will take some time.
I almost hope that when they do the tweak they retroactive it for those of us who have been playing, but I suspect they won't because of the imbalance it would create for new players. But yeah the credit gains is rather poor and that's being generous.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
So have they tweaked progression more since they turned off the store?
Nope. I suspect they won't release those changes until The Last Jedi content comes out. They also have to do the math and test the changes so I suspect that will take some time.
I almost hope that when they do the tweak they retroactive it for those of us who have been playing, but I suspect they won't because of the imbalance it would create for new players. But yeah the credit gains is rather poor and that's being generous.
I could see a regular company giving out a few crates to help balance it, nothing exponential but like 5 crates or something.
So have they tweaked progression more since they turned off the store?
Nope. I suspect they won't release those changes until The Last Jedi content comes out. They also have to do the math and test the changes so I suspect that will take some time.
I almost hope that when they do the tweak they retroactive it for those of us who have been playing, but I suspect they won't because of the imbalance it would create for new players. But yeah the credit gains is rather poor and that's being generous.
Yeah. And it's really weird, like, I had a match where I was a freakin' rockstar. #2 on the team, all kinds of kills, huge score ... 220 credits.
The next match I was trying to be a sniper (c.f. earlier posts about how well that works), and was basically bottom of the barrel. 190 credits.
shrug.gif
And it's, like, I have to play 10 matches to open one crate? That's kinda ridiculous.
I'm also not sure how well, if at all, they're doing the "star card level" balancing that they've mentioned. I cannot count the number of times I've run out into a fight as, e.g., a level 4 Heavy (the only card I've gotten for it is the preorder bonus one for a better shield), been more-or-less instantly shredded (learning the game is tough), and my killer has a level 4 card in each of his 3 slots and a total level of 20+.
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
star cards dont really matter for damage except on heroes
wat ur looking at there is almost 100% certainly experience
eg if im an assault there are two ways im going to destroy you; with a vanguard or with a cr2. cr2 only needs improved recoil to turn into a fucking death laser and thats not even a star card question, because its a pre-order thing
if its an officer only unlock that will make you drop like a potato is blurrg reduced recoil 4shot, which again is weapon unlocks rather than cards
i guess grenade starcards? but starcards dont affect weapon damage otherwise
Yeah the credit gain is just poor at this point. Like timed challenges that you get like every 2 days only award 100 credits. That's like a 5 minute quick over and done match worth.
I have faith they'll fix it, but they could at least over correct and give out a lot of credits right now and then tune it down later?
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
So have they tweaked progression more since they turned off the store?
Nope. I suspect they won't release those changes until The Last Jedi content comes out. They also have to do the math and test the changes so I suspect that will take some time.
I almost hope that when they do the tweak they retroactive it for those of us who have been playing, but I suspect they won't because of the imbalance it would create for new players. But yeah the credit gains is rather poor and that's being generous.
Yeah. And it's really weird, like, I had a match where I was a freakin' rockstar. #2 on the team, all kinds of kills, huge score ... 220 credits.
The next match I was trying to be a sniper (c.f. earlier posts about how well that works), and was basically bottom of the barrel. 190 credits.
shrug.gif
And it's, like, I have to play 10 matches to open one crate? That's kinda ridiculous.
I'm also not sure how well, if at all, they're doing the "star card level" balancing that they've mentioned. I cannot count the number of times I've run out into a fight as, e.g., a level 4 Heavy (the only card I've gotten for it is the preorder bonus one for a better shield), been more-or-less instantly shredded (learning the game is tough), and my killer has a level 4 card in each of his 3 slots and a total level of 20+.
not having a way to get those cards without grinding like mad really shows you how they built the system to "entice" you to buy gems. Of course the folks who dropped cash right away will have those advantages over the rest of you for awhile, making it even worse.
Yeah, it's less about the raw damage output,* and more about the fact that they're supposed to be doing matchmaking based on card-level and I'm not seeing it at the moment.
* Agree that it's largely experience with the game.
I agree about experience, I'm at the point where I know what cards I would want to help me, but have been hoarding credits to see how they change it. Probably not going to matter because they'd be worried about all the people that have already sunk their credits, but I'd rather just hold off.
So it seems pretty apparent that Iden and Del are Rey’s parents? I wonder if this was supposed to be a big reveal. Because it was pretty underwhelming for a mystery that people have been talking about since TFA.
0
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
I mean, over 4,000 hours of playtime or over 2,100 $ investment to unlock everything in the BASE GAME? This remindes me of Mass Effect: Andromeda that featured more grind to unlock everything than Mass Effect 3 with all of its DLCs combined, and then they released a patch that almost DOUBLED the grind. Difference is, it wasn't nearly as popular a franchise, at least not the multiplayer portion of it.
The Dwarves Devs delved too greedily and too deep...
The Devs were probably as pissed as we are.
Supposedly sales are down somewhere around 50%-60%, so they're probably a hell of a lot more pissed. You know the suit who decided to maximize the monetization ain't taking a hit to his bonus.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
Devs are easily MORE pissed than we are. Imagine spending a billion hours to make the game as Star Warsy and fun as it is and then your boss screws the pooch with your work.
Handsome CostanzaAsk me about 8bitdoRIP Iwata-sanRegistered Userregular
edited November 2017
I caved, I was curious about the SP. Instead of posting a longwinded opinion of the game I'm just gonna post these two pics that will give you an idea of what I'm looking at when I play the X Wing SP mission with the HUD turned off. Spoilers because they're fuckhuge:
This other one is ginormous in both filesize and actual size so I have to link it. It's the size of the image that appears on my monitor:
This is with all settings on full with supersampling set to 150%. So much detail my eyes started to water uncontrollably as if I were balling.
In other news (DEFINITE BF2 SPOILERS, POTENTIAL TLJ SPOILERS):
Remember that compass Luke picks up in the campaign? Well Bandai recently solicited their TLJ Luke figure. Look at the accessories in the bottom left corner:
It's the same compass. I know how this figure line works and they wouldn't put those accessories with the figure if it wasn't in the movie (or at least in the movie at some point prior to release). We are now at peak evidence for BF2 being tied into TLJ in some way
Yeah it's way better, but at the same time it's not really fair to compare vr to a vanilla bf2 mission. VR is designed for you to be looking around the cockpit n whatnot, the standard Bf2 game obviously isn't.
The map design favors snipers so fucking much it makes me hate this game. Seriously, who designs several maps that allow sniper teams to be able to reach static spawn positions? Oi.
The map design favors snipers so fucking much it makes me hate this game. Seriously, who designs several maps that allow sniper teams to be able to reach static spawn positions? Oi.
Posts
They're investigating whether loot boxes in general in gaming are gambling, and only because Battlefront 2 has pushed this predatory practice in video games into the limelight. The only thing different about Battlefront 2 is it's a very popular IP that's been very aggressively advertised and very aggressively decried which has put this particular mechanic right in front of peoples faces who normally don't see it.
Even if this does result in new laws over loot crates being gambling and regulated, it will not be singled against Battlefront 2, and will retroactively apply to all games that currently use the mechanic. There's no 'uneven law enforcement' or even any new laws yet. EA just managed to create the perfect situation to put this practice into a situation where it finally got noticed for what it is.
Though at this point it's probably worth moving this to it's own thread?
I mean, a big difference is that with a TCG, if you got a card you didn't want, you could theoretically trade it for something. It's right there in the name - trading card game. And theoretically cards can be balanced in such a way that the game isn't pay-to-win outside of schoolyard 'I filled my entire deck with a card that isn't tournament legal' shenanigans.
The shit you get in lootboxes can't be traded, so any value it has has to be intrinsic to the player. If you get a mod for a class that you don't like and won't play, its value is effectively zero. And any value you do ascribe to a mod/card/item is strictly temporary, since the servers will shut down, rendering value moot.
There's plenty differentiating pay-to-win loot boxes from TCGs.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
What does any of that have to do with gambling? Buying packs of cards and hoping you get what you want is gambling in exactly the same way that digital lootboxes are. You seem to be saying that a secondary resale market mitigates that somehow, but it doesn't do anything to change the nature of the actual gamble. It does allow you to possibly recoup some losses, but even that is completely dependent on the luck of the draw and the current meta of the game and so on. If BF2 increased the credit refund for duplicate cards, or allowed you to sell any unwanted cards for a set number of credits would this lootbox system suddenly be ok?
The temporary nature of things because it is digital is no different from any online CCG, any of which could shut down servers at any time, theoretically, so *shrug*?
No, that's stupid, I'm sorry. There's an obvious difference between resale value in CASH and resale value in fungamebux. I'm not saying Trading Card Games are legally bulletproof, but there's legal precedent there, whereas digital item loot boxes have only existed within the last 10-15 years.
Cool. Please link some of that legal precedent. Also please explain how being able to resell some cards for cash sometimes makes it not gambling.
Are you serious in thinking that trading cards have never been the subject of a court case? Sounds like you need to do some reading, don't let me stop you.
Edit: To elaborate, we're not doing the thing where you suggest I "prove" something to you and then wait for me to go look up legal cases or news articles for you to peruse. You're trying to prove a negative (this isn't gambling!), so have fun doing that. I'm not playing this sad game with you.
There is legal precedent for lawsuits regarding trading cards. Fact. It is not necessarily a totally settled matter (as I already said), but here is your chance to provide a case where someone WON a case proving TCG's or baseball cards or whatever was gambling. Or a loot box lawsuit. You know, anything that would contradict my basic point that trading cards are a known issue and loot boxes aren't. I think what is happening with BF2 will be the very start of legal precedent with loot box economies.
Steam / Origin & Wii U: Heatwave111 / FC: 4227-1965-3206 / Battle.net: Heatwave#11356
I'll use this unnecessarily aggressive and off topic post to remind people that this is not a general loot box thread.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Yea, I noticed load times were a little better but I'm lagging a lot now.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Pew pew rebel scum!
Unless the patch Monday did something, it's still painfully slow.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Nope. I suspect they won't release those changes until The Last Jedi content comes out. They also have to do the math and test the changes so I suspect that will take some time.
I almost hope that when they do the tweak they retroactive it for those of us who have been playing, but I suspect they won't because of the imbalance it would create for new players. But yeah the credit gains is rather poor and that's being generous.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I could see a regular company giving out a few crates to help balance it, nothing exponential but like 5 crates or something.
EA, no. They probably won't.
Yeah. And it's really weird, like, I had a match where I was a freakin' rockstar. #2 on the team, all kinds of kills, huge score ... 220 credits.
The next match I was trying to be a sniper (c.f. earlier posts about how well that works), and was basically bottom of the barrel. 190 credits.
shrug.gif
And it's, like, I have to play 10 matches to open one crate? That's kinda ridiculous.
I'm also not sure how well, if at all, they're doing the "star card level" balancing that they've mentioned. I cannot count the number of times I've run out into a fight as, e.g., a level 4 Heavy (the only card I've gotten for it is the preorder bonus one for a better shield), been more-or-less instantly shredded (learning the game is tough), and my killer has a level 4 card in each of his 3 slots and a total level of 20+.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
wat ur looking at there is almost 100% certainly experience
eg if im an assault there are two ways im going to destroy you; with a vanguard or with a cr2. cr2 only needs improved recoil to turn into a fucking death laser and thats not even a star card question, because its a pre-order thing
if its an officer only unlock that will make you drop like a potato is blurrg reduced recoil 4shot, which again is weapon unlocks rather than cards
i guess grenade starcards? but starcards dont affect weapon damage otherwise
I have faith they'll fix it, but they could at least over correct and give out a lot of credits right now and then tune it down later?
pleasepaypreacher.net
not having a way to get those cards without grinding like mad really shows you how they built the system to "entice" you to buy gems. Of course the folks who dropped cash right away will have those advantages over the rest of you for awhile, making it even worse.
* Agree that it's largely experience with the game.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
To put it mildly, yes.
And @Preacher this has now caught the interest of US Lawmakers it seems. So it might turn into a much larger problem for the industry as a whole.
All because EA made a bunch of Star Wars fans mad.
I'd say it's more all because EA knew no limits to their greed and decided, of all things, to exercise it on a very popular franchise that should lead to a guaranteed profitable game. Instead, the game doesn't even come close to selling out while others are completely out of stock
I mean, over 4,000 hours of playtime or over 2,100 $ investment to unlock everything in the BASE GAME? This remindes me of Mass Effect: Andromeda that featured more grind to unlock everything than Mass Effect 3 with all of its DLCs combined, and then they released a patch that almost DOUBLED the grind. Difference is, it wasn't nearly as popular a franchise, at least not the multiplayer portion of it.
Steam ID: 76561198021298113
Origin ID: SR71C_Blackbird
The Devs were probably as pissed as we are.
Supposedly sales are down somewhere around 50%-60%, so they're probably a hell of a lot more pissed. You know the suit who decided to maximize the monetization ain't taking a hit to his bonus.
A good point, it's easy to forget that it's not the actualy people behind the game itself that make these decisions, but those above them.
Steam ID: 76561198021298113
Origin ID: SR71C_Blackbird
This other one is ginormous in both filesize and actual size so I have to link it. It's the size of the image that appears on my monitor:
https://i.imgur.com/sO8D7Nx.jpg
This is with all settings on full with supersampling set to 150%. So much detail my eyes started to water uncontrollably as if I were balling.
In other news (DEFINITE BF2 SPOILERS, POTENTIAL TLJ SPOILERS):
It's the same compass. I know how this figure line works and they wouldn't put those accessories with the figure if it wasn't in the movie (or at least in the movie at some point prior to release). We are now at peak evidence for BF2 being tied into TLJ in some way
Resident 8bitdo expert.
Resident hybrid/flap cover expert.
For the record that first pic has been cropped a bit. What did the VR mission cockpits look like?
edit: nvm I found a video:
Yeah it's way better, but at the same time it's not really fair to compare vr to a vanilla bf2 mission. VR is designed for you to be looking around the cockpit n whatnot, the standard Bf2 game obviously isn't.
Resident 8bitdo expert.
Resident hybrid/flap cover expert.
Dice, it's kind of their thing.