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The Middle East - bOUTeflika

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular

    I can't imagine the NYT publishing an op-ed about Israel saying the same thing and treating it as reasonable.

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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    All those Jews just need to give up their religion and culture and surrender to the Inquisition.

    (that hurt to type)

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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »

    I can't imagine the NYT publishing an op-ed about Israel saying the same thing and treating it as reasonable.

    But wait, it gets worse:
    By Danny Danon
    Mr. Danon is Israel’s ambassador to the United Nations.

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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    JMS wrote:
    "Not like us"? You will become us. That's my monument, Commander.

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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Hey, remember that Norwegian tanker that the US claimed Iran had attacked?

    It's been repaired, and you'll never guess where it's headed now in order to complete its delivery!

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    RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    I'm posting this in two threads because it applies to both.

    In news that could only be described as "I'll take 'No Shit Alex' for $100"

    The reason that Trump scrapped the Iran Nuclear Deal.

    What is Spite for Obama?

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    TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    There are rumors circulating that President Erdogan has died. No confirmations at this point.

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited July 2019
    It seems by reporting that it was just a social media hoax but to this point Erdogan hasn’t made an “I AIN’T DEAD” statement which is somewhat baffling.

    Jealous Deva on
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    SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    I aten't dead, ahem.

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    lwt1973lwt1973 King of Thieves SyndicationRegistered User regular
    Big secret meeting with the airlines about subsidies given to the Middle East airlines of Emirates, Etihad Airways and Qatar Airways -- by Qatar and the United Arab Emirates. The airlines thought Trump would be on their side but SURPRISE he wasn't and according to reports:
    In the end, Trump told the airline CEOs to take their issues to the Department of Transportation, according to NBC News -- where it had already been determined that the three American companies would lose.

    Also a big reason why Trump took the meeting was because the airlines took massive ad time during Fox and Friends which Trump watches.

    "He's sulking in his tent like Achilles! It's the Iliad?...from Homer?! READ A BOOK!!" -Handy
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    The headline of that article is so gross.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    The headline of that article is so gross.

    Seriously. Fuck NBC.

    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
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    lwt1973lwt1973 King of Thieves SyndicationRegistered User regular
    redx wrote: »
    The headline of that article is so gross.

    Seriously. Fuck NBC.

    So where did the Apprentice run again?

    Oh yeah.

    "He's sulking in his tent like Achilles! It's the Iliad?...from Homer?! READ A BOOK!!" -Handy
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    MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    I had been figuring the National Enquirer was deep in the pockets of Russia, but possibly they were in Saudia Arabia's pocket (specifically MBS's) instead? Or possibly both, seeing as the FBI is investigating and they carefully skirt around anything that might involve Trump such as Russian connections.

    At any rate, the allegations are that since the Washington Post was causing an uproar about the assassination of Jamal Khashoggi, and Jeff Bezos owns the Post, the Saudis stole Bezos' personal information (such as the evidence of his affair) and gave it to the National Enquirer as part of a revenge plot for making MBS look bad. And seeing as the National Enquirer had links to the Saudis and MBS, even printing a 97 page magazine gushing over him, it's not hard to assume that there were deep links between the two.

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    The latest nation dealing with the fallout of sex tapes of politicians is...Iran? (Possibly NSFW, heavily blurred nudity)
    In Iran, everyone is talking about the sextapes of two Iranian politicians that were leaked on social media in early August. This is the first time that such compromising videos of politicians have been leaked since the 1979 Islamic Revolution. For many Iranians, these videos highlight the hypocrisy of those who fervently defend Islamic morality.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    The city of Aden, Yemen's second city and essentially the capital of southern Yemen since the civil war started, has been engulfed by pitched battles between UAE-backed southern separatists and the Saudi-backed forces of Hadi's beleaguered government which the Houthis ousted from Sanaa in 2015. UAE jets are bombing Hadi-aligned forces. This war started with a Saudi-UAE led coalition intervening on Hadi's behalf to try to oust the Houthis and restore the previous government, but has now devolved into a confusing three or four way conflict between Saudi-aligned forces, UAE-backed separatists, the Houthis in the north, and sometimes al-Qaeda.

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    JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    Are we going to see a Saudi-UAE split like we did with Qutar and the Saudis?

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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    edited August 2019
    The latest nation dealing with the fallout of sex tapes of politicians is...Iran? (Possibly NSFW, heavily blurred nudity)
    In Iran, everyone is talking about the sextapes of two Iranian politicians that were leaked on social media in early August. This is the first time that such compromising videos of politicians have been leaked since the 1979 Islamic Revolution. For many Iranians, these videos highlight the hypocrisy of those who fervently defend Islamic morality.

    This phrasing makes it sound like the '79 revolution was preceded by a wave of high-profile sex tapes.

    ... Wait, was it?

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    edited August 2019
    Are we going to see a Saudi-UAE split like we did with Qutar and the Saudis?
    I don't think it will go that far, though I could be wrong. I think the two still share enough regional interests that they'll continue to find common ground, whereas Qatar was opposed to both on many fronts. And the KSA probably won't want to further divide the Gulf monarchies in the context of their regional struggle with Iran. I don't think they care too much about Hadi or a united Yemen per se, they just fear the Houthis and want them removed from Sanaa (which seems less likely than ever now that the southern factions are at war).

    But who knows, MBS is erratic and has continually surprised me with his decisions.

    Kaputa on
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    MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Don't worry everyone! There's a new Middle East envoy from the US who will surely fix everything now! His name is Ari Berkowitz, he is 29 years old, and his qualifications are...he was Jared Kushner's coffee boy.

    Somehow, there is always someone even less competent they can find to fill a gap. He's probably a junior grifter too, considering how literally the rest of the regime works.

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    SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    A newsworthy bump to this thread: John Bolton was fired. Or possibly resigned. He said-he said. Twitter was involved.

    For those unfamiliar, Ol' "Don't Give Peace a Chance" Bolton was a leading warhawk going back to Reagan-Bush years in a smaller capacity, one of the many terrible violent sociopaths sent by the United States to serve as ambassador to the UN, and until today National Security Adviser. He was admired by Republicans for wanting war with Iran before it was popular, and admired by Democrats for insisting that any negotiation with North Korean leaders should have Pyongyang's complete political submission as a minimum prerequisite.

    We'll miss you, Bigjohn of House Bolton.

    9alqri4hi6uy.jpg

    Synthesis on
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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    Netanyahu has pledged to annex the Jordan Valley (~1/3 of the West Bank) if he wins next week.

    https://www.vox.com/world/2019/9/10/20859101/israel-netanyahu-jordan-valley-annex-election-september

    Article notes that, even if this promise doesn't materialize, it may still shift the overton window past any hope of a two state solution.

    I had assumed that that point had already been reached when we (Trump) recognized Jerusalem and giggled about the annexation of Golan Heights, but alright.

    Tweet from the article with the proposed map:



    (Times of Israel journo)

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
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    Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    Doesn't he always promise stuff like that before elections?

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    That would be a de facto annexation of the entire west bank, so yeah even putting it on the table is probably ruling out a two state solution.

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    jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    How does he intend to prevent the current residents from voting? Would he forcibly evict absolutely everyone, or keep them as a permanent non-citizen underclass?

    jothki on
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    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    jothki wrote: »
    How does he intend to prevent the current residents from voting? Would he forcibly evict absolutely everyone, or keep them as a permanent non-citizen underclass?

    The Palestinian residents of the WB can't vote in Israeli elections. The settler residents will vote in favor of annexation.

    Post election, I assume the plan is to ship the Palestinians to Madagascar, and when that proves impossible, come up with some other… solution.
    Hitler's original plan was to ship the Jews to Madagascar. When that fell through for so many good reasons, he needed another, final, solution.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    jothki wrote: »
    How does he intend to prevent the current residents from voting? Would he forcibly evict absolutely everyone, or keep them as a permanent non-citizen underclass?

    I think the plan is to shuffle them into increasingly smaller ghettos that are technically autonomous and thus non-voting but in practice are subject to Israeli laws and authority.

    See the little bit of orange on that map, that is the Palestinian reservation. The way this works is that any Palestinians outside that area will be “encouraged” to move there. This will probably be done at least at first by non-governmental actors - vandalism, fights, etc, with police giving a response of “you are off the reservation what can we do?”

    This is all pretty much straight out of the South Africa/ 1800s America playbook.

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    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    https://www.businessinsider.com/saudi-arabia-oil-aramco-drone-strike-2019-9

    Saudi Arabia's oil production just got cut in half, so expect this to be a Big Deal ™

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    HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Rebels don’t usually have an air force right? Are we talking DJI or predator-like drones?

    PSN: Honkalot
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    MillMill Registered User regular
    Israeli is counting the returns for their election and it's going to take a few days. The only things that anyone wants to hang their hats on is that it's unlikely anyone gets a clear majority, that turnout was higher this time around, the Arab party, Joint List did much better this time around, and the party that told Netanyahu to fuck off if he doesn't change the draft laws, also seemed to have done better. The last two, might have come at the expense of Likud, also Likud is probably similar to the GOP, in that they probably don't benefit from higher turnout.

    Again, this is just the first part of the vote and sadly based on some exit polling. So possible that Likud does better, but still falls short having the numbers to form a coalition government. There is actually a chance that they might have to dissolve the parliament created by this election and have another election early next year.

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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/elections/.premium-israel-election-exit-polls-netanyahu-gantz-1.7854652
    The third largest party in the Knesset is the Joint List of Arab parties, with 13 seats. It is followed by ultra-Orthodox party Shas, which gets nine seats and United Torah Judaism, which gets eight seats. Ayelet Shaked's Yamina gets seven seats, the results indicate, Labor-Gesher get six and Democratic Union get five seats.
    Man, the Labor party has really fallen apart.

    Kaputa on
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    kaidkaid Registered User regular
    I am curious how many votes they will go through before they get a PM that can command even a slim majority. It pretty much looks like this one is going the way of their last one and possibly even more unfavorably to netanyahu.

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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    Kaputa wrote: »
    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/elections/.premium-israel-election-exit-polls-netanyahu-gantz-1.7854652
    The third largest party in the Knesset is the Joint List of Arab parties, with 13 seats. It is followed by ultra-Orthodox party Shas, which gets nine seats and United Torah Judaism, which gets eight seats. Ayelet Shaked's Yamina gets seven seats, the results indicate, Labor-Gesher get six and Democratic Union get five seats.
    Man, the Labor party has really fallen apart.

    So the 'moderate-left' party could really make international history here by actually leaning left to make a coalition.

    Wouldn't that be something.

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Not really? It would be a minority government in that case.

    I think israel has elected a government fundamentally incapable of doing much other than putting Netanyahu in prison and Orthodox Jews in the army.


    Which... is at least a sort of progress?

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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    Not really? It would be a minority government in that case.

    I think israel has elected a government fundamentally incapable of doing much other than putting Netanyahu in prison and Orthodox Jews in the army.


    Which... is at least a sort of progress?

    Oh, my mistake, reading comprehension (and arithmetic) failure. Thought Gantz had 56 by himself and just needed to pickup one of the smaller parties; but Lieberman's right-wingers were the only option under consideration for shitty centrist reasons.

    (Gantz has 56 with the left-wingers)

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    Not really? It would be a minority government in that case.

    I think israel has elected a government fundamentally incapable of doing much other than putting Netanyahu in prison and Orthodox Jews in the army.


    Which... is at least a sort of progress?

    Oh, my mistake, reading comprehension (and arithmetic) failure. Thought Gantz had 56 by himself and just needed to pickup one of the smaller parties; but Lieberman's right-wingers were the only option under consideration for shitty centrist reasons.

    (Gantz has 56 with the left-wingers)

    Yeah they are in some weird game theory fuckfest.

    Like Gantz has 56, Netanyahu has 55, but those include the Arab parties for Gantz and the orthodox for Netanyahu.

    Leiberman has enough to put either side over the top, but if Gantz includes Leiberman the Arabs are out and if Netanyahu includes Leiberman the Orthodox parties are out.

    Without either the Arabs or the Orthodox parties Leiberman+ Either major party doesn’t hold a majority. But if either side freezes out Lieberman their government would be a minority and could get overturned at will by Leiberman.


    So yeah. I could see the two main parties and Lieberman forming a hard center coalition, but I don’t think Gantz or Leiberman will work with Netanyahu as a coalition partner. So I think right now the most likely outcome is Leiberman gets his orthodox conscription, Netanyahu gets fucked, and beyond that either a business as usual centrist government or a new election.

    Jealous Deva on
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    MillMill Registered User regular
    From what I got from a few articles, that current coalition doesn't include the Joint List. No idea how viable it would be for Gant's current coalition to include them because it's possible someone jumps ship upon them being included. If it is a viable route, they might be an option given that Liberman's right-wingers are already making noise about not joining a government unless it's a unity ticket that includes Blue & White and Likud. If I were Gantz, I'd probably turn that down if I had another option because the right wing parties probably force him into a position that's going to hurt him in future votes, looking at how that has gone for coalition governments in other countries that had similar setups. Also possible that Likud really insists on Netanyahu keeping power and that is a deal breaker for Gantz. Gantz only needs a coalition of 61 minimum, obviously, higher is better and if current numbers hold his current coalition plus Joint list would be 69 (56 from the coalition + 13 from joint list). Of course, the vote isn't done, so it's quite possible for those figures to shift a few seats in either direction, but unlikely that Gantz gets a traditional coalition of 61 and again, 61 is probably not an ideal number. Sure it's you the majority by your one vote away from everything going to pieces.

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    finnithfinnith ... TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited September 2019
    Mill wrote: »
    From what I got from a few articles, that current coalition doesn't include the Joint List. No idea how viable it would be for Gant's current coalition to include them because it's possible someone jumps ship upon them being included. If it is a viable route, they might be an option given that Liberman's right-wingers are already making noise about not joining a government unless it's a unity ticket that includes Blue & White and Likud. If I were Gantz, I'd probably turn that down if I had another option because the right wing parties probably force him into a position that's going to hurt him in future votes, looking at how that has gone for coalition governments in other countries that had similar setups. Also possible that Likud really insists on Netanyahu keeping power and that is a deal breaker for Gantz. Gantz only needs a coalition of 61 minimum, obviously, higher is better and if current numbers hold his current coalition plus Joint list would be 69 (56 from the coalition + 13 from joint list). Of course, the vote isn't done, so it's quite possible for those figures to shift a few seats in either direction, but unlikely that Gantz gets a traditional coalition of 61 and again, 61 is probably not an ideal number. Sure it's you the majority by your one vote away from everything going to pieces.

    As far as I can tell the Gantz coalition numbers include the Joint List, similar to how the Likud one includes Yamina.

    x01teilc7cn7.png

    finnith on
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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    Not really? It would be a minority government in that case.

    I think israel has elected a government fundamentally incapable of doing much other than putting Netanyahu in prison and Orthodox Jews in the army.


    Which... is at least a sort of progress?

    Oh, my mistake, reading comprehension (and arithmetic) failure. Thought Gantz had 56 by himself and just needed to pickup one of the smaller parties; but Lieberman's right-wingers were the only option under consideration for shitty centrist reasons.

    (Gantz has 56 with the left-wingers)

    Yeah they are in some weird game theory fuckfest.

    Like Gantz has 56, Netanyahu has 55, but those include the Arab parties for Gantz and the orthodox for Netanyahu.

    Leiberman has enough to put either side over the top, but if Gantz includes Leiberman the Arabs are out and if Netanyahu includes Leiberman the Orthodox parties are out.

    Without either the Arabs or the Orthodox parties Leiberman+ Either major party doesn’t hold a majority. But if either side freezes out Lieberman their government would be a minority and could get overturned at will by Leiberman.


    So yeah. I could see the two main parties and Lieberman forming a hard center coalition, but I don’t think Gantz or Leiberman will work with Netanyahu as a coalition partner. So I think right now the most likely outcome is Leiberman gets his orthodox conscription, Netanyahu gets fucked, and beyond that either a business as usual centrist government or a new election.
    Thank you for this analysis. I've read several lengthy articles about the complex, shifting alliances and coalition's forming in recent months and still haven't understood the political scene in Israel. It seems like a total mess.

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    finnithfinnith ... TorontoRegistered User regular
    What are the chances of Likud dropping Netanyahu? Last comment I saw from a Likud official it looked like the they would only form a coalition with Kahol Lavan if the latter dropped the requirement that Netanyahu be removed.

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