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The Middle East - bOUTeflika

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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    edited March 2019
    Taliban Capture About 150 Afghan Soldiers After Chase Into Turkmenistan

    This is a weird story.
    The Taliban carried out the biggest known capture of Afghan soldiers of the war, taking 150 prisoners after they chased units into neighboring Turkmenistan and that country forced them back, Afghan officials said on Sunday.
    ...
    Early Saturday, 50 soldiers from the force surrendered, and an additional 100 fled Taliban pursuit and crossed the nearby border into Turkmenistan, according to Saleh Mohammad Mubarez, commander of the Afghan police in the district. By the end of the day, he said on Sunday, Turkmenistan had forced them back into Taliban hands.
    ...
    Lieutenant Habibullah, a deputy company commander in Badghis who uses only one name, also confirmed the surrenders. “Turkmenistan told the Taliban, ‘We will give the border force soldiers’ weapons to the Afghanistan government and give you the border force soldiers, but the Taliban said that you should give the troops to the Afghan government and give us their weapons,’” he said.

    On Saturday, some Afghan officials played down the capture, saying the soldiers who had crossed into Turkmenistan would be returned to the government side. Jamshid Shahabi, a spokesman for the Badghis provincial governor, said the escape toward Turkmenistan by the 100 soldiers had been part of a previously arranged security plan.

    A spokesman for the Ministry of Defense, Qais Mangal, said that those who had surrendered were not regular soldiers, but irregular militia fighters. But numerous local officials said they were indeed regular soldiers with the border forces, which are part of the Afghan Army.

    In this same district, the Taliban killed/captured another 60+ man army company a few days ago. I am sort of confused as to what exactly has happened here given the varying accounts, but "Turkmenistan handed the ANSF over to the Taliban after ANSF tried to flee across the border" seems the most well sourced claim, and that seems to be what the author thinks too based on the article's phrasing. I find this surprising, although I know nothing of Turkmenistan-Afghanistan relations (and wiki is hilariously unhelpful). I'm curious to know how the governments of Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, and Tajikistan are approaching the conflict now that US commitment is questionable and the Taliban control much of the country.

    Kaputa on
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    [Tycho?] wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Bibi has decided to join the Trump club and say the quiet part loud:
    https://www.npr.org/2019/03/11/702264118/netanyahu-says-israel-is-nation-state-of-the-jewish-people-and-them-alone
    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is drawing criticism for saying that Israel is "the national state, not of all its citizens, but only of the Jewish people." The comment prompted many people — including Israel's president and the star of Wonder Woman — to defend Israel's Palestinian Arab minority.

    Palestinian Arab citizens are about a fifth of Israel's population and often face discrimination and accusations of disloyalty.

    The prime minister's comment set off criticism, debates over Israel's true nature — and observations that with Israel's legislative elections now less than a month away, Netanyahu's provocative language might be calculated to help his Likud Party at the polls.

    Netanyahu and his party are warning that if they lose upcoming elections, the new government could include Arab political parties.

    A couple of years ago I might have thought that it was nice they finally stopped pretending but it seems like people only stop pretending when they really wanna lean in on being terrible.

    After the nation state law passed I guess this has become normal? The election campaign going on there is fucking nuts.
    Absurdly nuts.

    Senior Diplomatic correspondent, Channel 13:

    The ad is for her party, "The new right"

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    I thought that was a parody video.

    The fact that it isn’t blows my mind.

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    SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    It's not the Middle East, but because there's not really another place to mention it: Nursultan Nazarbayev resigned as president of the Republic of Kazakhstan.

    He was Chairman of the Council of Ministers of Soviet Kazakhstan, Chairman of the Supreme Soviet of Soviet Kazakhstan, Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party in Kazakhstan, and thusfar the only president of independent Kazakhstan. Considered a close ally of Mikhail Gorbachev (he allegedly declined to be vice president of the USSR), he rejected the accords penned by Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine to constitutionally dissolve the USSR, and promoted the Eurasian Economic Union. He apparently has no intention to resign from the chair of the ruling party, Nur Otan.

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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    NYT article on Algeria protests. Tens of thousands take to the streets of the capital weekly. The protestors continue to demand the ouster of Bouteflika and his inner circle, and his "concession" of not running for a 5th term but also postponing the elections did nothing reduce public anger, since it came with no agreement to step down. The institutionalized corruption of the Algerian state, and its authoritarian nature, are the target of this movement, not just the nearly comatose Bouteflika, whose continued rule is more symbolic than anything as no one in Algeria believes in it. The article refers to a framed picture of Bouteflika, which is displayed during government statements on his behalf. NYT says Algerians often call it "The Frame", which I can't help but find darkly hilarious, in a dystopian sort of way.

    While Bouteflika has clung on longer than I'd have guessed, I think his removal is pretty inevitable at this point, as I don't see why the ruling class would be existentially compelled to retain Bouteflika as President (there could be a reason, I dunno, but how long can that guy really last anyway?). But past that I have no insight as to what form a transition of power might take. Hopefully a form that is not just stretching a new facemask over the same secretive, corrupt, and authoritarian system, which I doubt many Algerians will accept.

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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
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    JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    Why do I have a feeling the new boss will be very similar?

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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    Why do I have a feeling the new boss will be very similar?
    We'll see. Algerians, or at least those Algerians quoted by journalists reporting on the demonstrations, seem well aware of that danger and don't sound like they're in the mood for another puppet controlled by the military/corporate power structure. But that power structure and the institutionalized corruption it is built around will be difficult to dislodge. I have no idea what will happen now.

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    JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    Kaputa wrote: »
    Why do I have a feeling the new boss will be very similar?
    We'll see. Algerians, or at least those Algerians quoted by journalists reporting on the demonstrations, seem well aware of that danger and don't sound like they're in the mood for another puppet controlled by the military/corporate power structure. But that power structure and the institutionalized corruption it is built around will be difficult to dislodge. I have no idea what will happen now.

    I worry it will go down like Egypt, where they will allow the change but later take power back when the time is right.

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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Kaputa wrote: »
    No one posts here anymore. :(

    The Sudanese protests, you mentioned a bit earlier, are a big reason I don't post much anymore. I spend a lot of my free time on Sudanese social media keeping up with the news, and it's a mix of awe inspiring and enraging, and by the time I'm done I feel emotionally exhausted. It's nothing like the people on the ground go through, but I watch the latest videos coming out and I mostly can't help myself from crying. A bit of survivor's guilt, along with the reality of was happening - especially when it was videos of violence in streets I remember. At first I thought I was alone in this, but I've kept hearing the same thing from many other expats I know, even without me bringing up the discussion.

    And they're still going on. The government seems to have, for months, more or less accepted they no longer have control in the streets. And timed with the anniversary of the 6th of April revolution, and buoyed a bit by the Algerian protests, the Sudanese protests are getting bigger. So, some happenings from this weekend in chronological order.

    Early Saturday:



    Saturday night:



    Sunday:





    People are camping out the army headquarters. It's a mostly festive mood, with a bit of violence reported (less than the usual amount). In months of protest, if there was one feature of the Sudanese protest that distinguishes from it the others, is that I've heard more explicitly anti-fundie chants than anywhere else - maybe it was the same during the Iranian protests, but I don't speak the language. Unlike Egypt or Algeria, people directly associate government/power with religious fundamentalism, so after 20 years of rule they just become the same thing; especially for the youngest generation that grew up knowing nothing else.

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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    edited April 2019
    Thanks for your post Elki, it was moving and in my opinion inspires hope. I had considered asking you more about your insights and feelings on the protests but figured if you wanted to post more about it you would. I'm glad to hear that the protesters are wary of and working against extremist factions attempting to co-opt their movement , as had tragically happened in Iran, Syria, and elsewhere (edit - or if that's inaccurate than at least opposing militant fundamentalism generally, as you describe). I have been elated by the success that protesters in Algeria have had so far and have been hoping for months that the people of Sudan succeed in their struggle for freedom as well. I am taken aback by their tenacity.

    Kaputa on
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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2019
    Echoes of Tunisia/Egypt everywhere. Sunday night in Khartoum, repetition of the chant that’ll never go away: “the people want the fall of the regime.”

    Elki on
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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Kaputa wrote: »
    Thanks for your post Elki, it was moving and in my opinion inspires hope. I had considered asking you more about your insights and feelings on the protests but figured if you wanted to post more about it you would. I'm glad to hear that the protesters are wary of and working against extremist factions attempting to co-opt their movement , as had tragically happened in Iran, Syria, and elsewhere (edit - or if that's inaccurate than at least opposing militant fundamentalism generally, as you describe). I have been elated by the success that protesters in Algeria have had so far and have been hoping for months that the people of Sudan succeed in their struggle for freedom as well. I am taken aback by their tenacity.

    If you look at the women chanting in the first video I posted, they're doing the main chant that's been original to the protest in Sudan - it's done in a kind of call and response format.

    أي كوز"
    ندوسو دوس
    "مابنخاف مابنخاف مابنخاف

    Which loosely translates to:

    "Bring me a fundie (yes!)
    Any fundie (yes!)
    We'll annihilate him
    We're not afraid, never afraid, never afraid"
    كوز (koaz) is a popular Sudanese epithet for fundamentalist.

    On to Monday, where the afternoon temperature was 110° F, the parade of people joining and rejoining the sit in.



    The flag being waved in the back is the Sudanese flag, the rest of the flags (the more colorful ones) are Sufi flags (the drums are also the Sufi drummers). You can see some of them dressed in the Sufi white & green.



    The boring logistics of the thing. The protests have been, for month, dispersed through the city, with people protesting in their own neighborhoods, or spontaneously in some public places. But now that there's a mass gathering, organised protesters are making the hikes over the Armed Forces Bridge to constantly deliver water to the protesters. Gotta stay hydrated.


    And sit in continued, videos of during the day and night.







    But before all that happened, there were a couple of notable incidents of violence late Sunday night. The internal Security Forces (a militarized police force) moved in, a couple of times, to break the sit in. Army soldiers, with no indications they were acting under any higher orders, took up positions and got into a firefight with the Security Forces. No one knows who shot first, but protesters were hiding behind the Army soldiers, and Security Forces eventually decided to withdraw, leaving at least one Army soldier dead in the aftermath. Whatever videos came from it are pretty terrifying. I'm not sure yet what to make of it.



    Here's a Channel 4 news story about it.

    https://www.channel4.com/news/low-ranked-sudanese-soldiers-defy-government-to-protect-protestors-in-khartoum

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    PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    edited April 2019
    I thought that was a parody video.

    The fact that it isn’t blows my mind.

    More detail: It mentions separation of powers and restraining the judiciary as examples of the contents of the fascism-labelled bottle, because her thing is the supreme court going against parliament means it's too powerful, which had been called fascistic before the ad. So her message is "nu-uh, it's democratic actually".

    PLA on
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    TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    You will never guess who supports Trump's decision to designate the Iranian Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist organization:


    (Do not read the comments. Really).

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    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    edited April 2019
    Netanyahu claiming victory, CNN saying it's too close to call.

    https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-election-results-2019-dle-intl/index.html

    e: Scrolled down a bit more, looks like both potential PMs are claiming victory.

    Jragghen on
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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Netanyahu claiming victory, CNN saying it's too close to call.

    https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-election-results-2019-dle-intl/index.html

    e: Scrolled down a bit more, looks like both potential PMs are claiming victory.

    Trial by Stone!

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    TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited April 2019
    I've been seeing reports of gunfire around some of the Sudan protests - Guardian link to the story.
    Apparently it was militia vs protests & army and at the Navy headquarters? You OK Elki?

    Tastyfish on
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    RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    I've been seeing reports of gunfire around some of the Sudan protests - Guardian link to the story.
    Apparently it was militia vs protests & army and at the Navy headquarters? You OK Elki?

    Elki lives in the US, IIRC.

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    TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Hareetz reporter Amir Tibon says that Likud won:

    Which is nice and all, but he still has to form a coalition government since this is a parliament. He probably will, but still.

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    OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor TinychatRegistered User regular
    Can't believe they voted in a PM that was indicted for corruption

    Oh wait

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    daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Hareetz reporter Amir Tibon says that Likud won:

    Which is nice and all, but he still has to form a coalition government since this is a parliament. He probably will, but still.

    I looked at some of the earlier numbers and it looked like he'd be able to pull it off. It'd be bare-bones and full of assholes, but it'd be a government. It'll also be a government whose policies are dictated by whatever is necessary to keep the coalition running, which will be just great considering who the members are likely to be.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Score another one for the fascists

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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    edited April 2019
    Score another one for the fascists
    Seriously. I've had an exceedingly low opinion of the Israeli government throughout Netanyahu's rule, but it's only gotten worse over time, and now it looks like the goal is to set new lows. I have always maintained a sliver of hope for Palestine despite the gradual deterioration of the situation and the Israeli government's intransigence, but I find it difficult to keep that hope alive at this point.

    I was under no delusions that a Gantz victory was going to result in Israel unilaterally ending the occupation and granting Palestinians/Arabs equal rights, or accepting an independent Palestinian state (although I personally think the two-state solution has been dead for many years, leaving a one-state solution the only realistic option). But maybe there would have been a chance for something to happen, especially if a left-wing Democratic candidate like Sanders is elected in the US and Washington moderates its position. But with the farthest right Netanyahu government yet I have trouble seeing how things could improve or even not get worse. Is Israel going to start annexing parts of the West Bank? Is another brutal war - or, more accurately, bombing campaign - in Gaza imminent?

    This up there for the most upset I've been at an election result.

    Kaputa on
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    It will be whatever Netanyahu needs to do to avoid being indicted

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    It will be whatever Netanyahu needs to do to avoid being indicted

    One thing he's supposedly proposing is a law just granting him immunity.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    It will be whatever Netanyahu needs to do to avoid being indicted

    Speaking of which

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/10/world/middleeast/benjamin-netanyahu-israel-election.html?fbclid=IwAR1tgJI-eGQFpJq42XrMkEBAo85YiGPEDLsETMRv5wkCZqPBS6jd2zczt_Y
    That campaign, too, is expected to present a challenge for Israel’s democratic system: Mr. Netanyahu is now almost certain to try to extract a deal from his coalition partners to pass a law retroactively granting him immunity from prosecution.

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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    edited April 2019
    Libya's intermittent civil war is on again. General Haftar's Libyan National Army is ostensibly trying to conquer Tripoli, and is fighting various militias in the city's outskirts. This comes after the LNA gained territory from other factions in the south. For those who don't know, Tripoli is currently controlled by various militias loosely affiliated under a legal framework for a UN-recognized "Government of National Accord," although that government seems to exist only on paper and in reality it's just a militia alliance. Haftar's LNA is based in Tobruk in eastern Libya.

    A pitched battle for Tripoli would be a drastic escalation in what has been a relatively low-level conflict (outside of the more brutal battles with salafi-jihadists a few years ago). Hopefully the situation calms down.

    Kaputa on
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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    I've been seeing reports of gunfire around some of the Sudan protests - Guardian link to the story.
    Apparently it was militia vs protests & army and at the Navy headquarters? You OK Elki?

    As Rchanen said, I’ve been living in the US for a while so I’m never in any danger.

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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Al Arabiya reporting that the army entered the TV & Radio building and asked for all channels to be merged. Assuming they have something to announce.

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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    I’m watching the live feed of Channel Sudan right now. Music, occasionally interrupted by the announcer announcing the army will have announcement coming shortly.

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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2019
    No announcement yet, and nothing official, but Al Arabiya is reporting that president Bashir has resigned, citing “Arab sources.” Given who talks to to Al Arabiya, that’s probably someone in the Saudi, Emirati, or Egyptian governments.

    Elki on
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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Bashir’s personal guard have been arrested, and many officials are being rounded up, including Ali Osman Taha, the former VP of 15 years who has a lot of control over the party’s militas. And a report of a failed attempt to keep Bashir in power.

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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    If the music stops one more time for this announcer to say: “the armed forces will have an important announcement coming shortly” for the 30th time, I’m gonna jump.

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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    If the music stops one more time for this announcer to say: “the armed forces will have an important announcement coming shortly” for the 30th time, I’m gonna jump.

    That's pretty high up there on the list of ominous phrases

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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    edited April 2019
    Holy shit!
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Elki wrote: »
    If the music stops one more time for this announcer to say: “the armed forces will have an important announcement coming shortly” for the 30th time, I’m gonna jump.

    That's pretty high up there on the list of ominous phrases
    I was interpreting it the other way, as confirmation that Bashir is finally overthrown.

    edit- according to al-Jazeera, the military has removed Bashir from power.

    Bouteflika and Bashir peacefully overthrown within the span of a couple weeks.

    Kaputa on
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    JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    I want this to work out for the people of Sudan and Algeria. Hopefully they can't peacefully transition into a democracy.

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    HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    Two years of military rule seem like a warning sign to me?

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Two years of military rule seem like a warning sign to me?
    In Algeria, protests have continued post-Bouteflika because people know they must maintain pressure on the state in order to gain more freedom. I would not be surprised if the same is true in Sudan. But yeah, I agree that watching the defense minister announce two years of military rule, a month of curfew, and a three month state of emergency was less than thrilling.

    NYT quotes an organizer:
    “What has been just stated is for us a coup, and it is not acceptable,” said Sara Abdelgalil, a spokeswoman for the Sudanese Professionals Association, which has been organizing the protests. “They are recycling the faces, and this will return us to where we have been.”

    “We insist on a civil government,” Ms. Abdelgalil added, “and we don’t support any coup.”

    She said the demonstrations would continue “until there is a complete step down of the whole regime.”

    I've heard similar sentiments from Algerian protesters quoted in Western media.

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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2019
    I’m very weary of another round of military rule, and the SPA is as well, so I’m glad that, as they’ve posted on their media platforms, “the revolution continues.”

    Still, two dictators down in as many weeks!

    In the news, as reported by Al Jazeera.



    The defense minister declared a curfew, and protesters are defying it. Both in the sit in Khartoum, and deliberately past the curfew times in other cities to specifically defy the curfew.

    Elki on
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This discussion has been closed.