KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
edited April 2017
Doesn't star wars rebels do that a little bit? Or maybe not, I haven't actually watched it outside of some clips
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
My knowledge of the Star Wars EU is pretty limited, but outside of the KOTOR franchise, has there ever been a story about how the whole binary 'light/dark' choice for a force user is kind of bullshit? That context and shades of grey are all around us and sometimes one approach is better than the other?
Cause honestly I could see TLJ's title kinda referring to that idea, with Luke coming to terms with it and Kylo eventually embracing it.
There isn't, really, because Star Wars is generally a story about Dark versus Light. Good versus Evil. Space Fantasy and all that.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
My knowledge of the Star Wars EU is pretty limited, but outside of the KOTOR franchise, has there ever been a story about how the whole binary 'light/dark' choice for a force user is kind of bullshit? That context and shades of grey are all around us and sometimes one approach is better than the other?
Cause honestly I could see TLJ's title kinda referring to that idea, with Luke coming to terms with it and Kylo eventually embracing it.
There isn't, really, because Star Wars is generally a story about Dark versus Light. Good versus Evil. Space Fantasy and all that.
Yeah I guess you're right
Maybe I'm looking for that kind of deep dive into adherence to dogma and the consequences therein in the wrong place, but after decades of the stuff I'm getting a little tired of every force user making the choice between Magical Monk or Evil Wizard Guy
Uh-oh I accidentally deleted my signature. Uh-oh!!
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
My knowledge of the Star Wars EU is pretty limited, but outside of the KOTOR franchise, has there ever been a story about how the whole binary 'light/dark' choice for a force user is kind of bullshit? That context and shades of grey are all around us and sometimes one approach is better than the other?
Cause honestly I could see TLJ's title kinda referring to that idea, with Luke coming to terms with it and Kylo eventually embracing it.
There isn't, really, because Star Wars is generally a story about Dark versus Light. Good versus Evil. Space Fantasy and all that.
Yeah I guess you're right
Maybe I'm looking for that kind of deep dive into adherence to dogma and the consequences therein in the wrong place, but after decades of the stuff I'm getting a little tired of every force user making the choice between Magical Monk or Evil Wizard Guy
Theres the novel Traitor from the New Jedi Order Books,
Jacen Solo is captured and tortured/lectured at by an Old Republic Jedi named Vergere who was pretty grey jedi like, no light or dark side just the force
then the Legacy of the Force books retconned Vergere into being a Sith trying to turn Jacen into a Sith because of course she was always a Sith!
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GreasyKidsStuffMOMMM!ROAST BEEF WANTS TO KISS GIRLS ON THE TITTIES!Registered Userregular
My knowledge of the Star Wars EU is pretty limited, but outside of the KOTOR franchise, has there ever been a story about how the whole binary 'light/dark' choice for a force user is kind of bullshit? That context and shades of grey are all around us and sometimes one approach is better than the other?
Cause honestly I could see TLJ's title kinda referring to that idea, with Luke coming to terms with it and Kylo eventually embracing it.
Rebels has definitely gotten into this with that Bhindu (sp?) character.
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JimothyNot in front of the foxhe's with the owlRegistered Userregular
My knowledge of the Star Wars EU is pretty limited, but outside of the KOTOR franchise, has there ever been a story about how the whole binary 'light/dark' choice for a force user is kind of bullshit? That context and shades of grey are all around us and sometimes one approach is better than the other?
Cause honestly I could see TLJ's title kinda referring to that idea, with Luke coming to terms with it and Kylo eventually embracing it.
I do get the sense that that's where this is headed
Which is interesting because for all his faults, I grew to kinda like Lucas's take on the Light/Dark sides: That the Dark Side and the Sith were a corruption of the Force, and that's why "bringing balance to the Force" actually did mean eradicating the Sith and not the kinda silly "Anakin brought balance to the Force by killing all those Jedi" thing that got thrown around for a while
But I'm not surprised that, free from Lucas's influence, the story is veering into a more shades-of-grey approach, and I don't think I mind. I'm potentially fine with either philosophy, because they're both interesting to me
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masterofmetroidHave you ever looked at a worldand seen it as a kind of challenge?Registered Userregular
The theory about Anakin bringing balance to the force through killing all the Jedi is more about making the prophecy make even a little sense than anything else
Because the idea that the force had to let the Empire happen just to kill Palpatine is fucking ludicrous
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Ov3rchargeR.I.P. Mass EffectYou were dead to me for yearsRegistered Userregular
My knowledge of the Star Wars EU is pretty limited, but outside of the KOTOR franchise, has there ever been a story about how the whole binary 'light/dark' choice for a force user is kind of bullshit? That context and shades of grey are all around us and sometimes one approach is better than the other?
Cause honestly I could see TLJ's title kinda referring to that idea, with Luke coming to terms with it and Kylo eventually embracing it.
Not so much in the past considering it really ruffled Lucas' feathers. You can see that in how quick Bioware was to invalidate everything about KOTOR 2 after they regained control.
was actually created by the force in response to Palpatine and his master fucking about with the force
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
There's no way to be sure because Anakin's origin might just be the dumbest thing about Star Wars.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
There's no way to be sure because Anakin's origin might just be the dumbest thing about Star Wars.
A common theory is that The emperor intentionally made and again so that he can use him as a weapon.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
There's no way to be sure because Anakin's origin might just be the dumbest thing about Star Wars.
A common theory is that The emperor intentionally made and again so that he can use him as a weapon.
So the emperor space raped anakin's mom? That's a shitty theory.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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L Ron HowardThe duckMinnesotaRegistered Userregular
Well, there is Jollee Bindo in KOTOR 1 that was all about the Force being a balance, or something.
But Lucas notoriously hates the KOTOR series because they were trying new things, like the Force not being binary, and you can kill a Jedi if you're patient and have few emotions or whatever.
I do like the theory that Plagueis created Anakin with the long term goal of killing Palpatine as revenge for Plagueis' inevitable death at Palpies hands
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I prefer the theory that Anakin's mom was full of shit.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Doesn't star wars rebels do that a little bit? Or maybe not, I haven't actually watched it outside of some clips
Rebels and the Clone Wars talk more about how the Jedi/Sith divide are kind of bull. There's people on both sides who are totally done with the whole concept of "Sith always do this, and Jedi always do this". The Light/Dark stuff is still pretty set-in-stone, but there's a few characters who break with teachings and a few of them get some good characterization.
Ahsoka is pretty "grey" as far as things go, she's not beholden to the Jedi path and a lot of her training under Anakin led her down a similar path. She's not spitting lightning, but she's also very proactive rather than defensive in her fighting and still has a lot of worldly attachments.
Ezra is basically the posterboy for "grey". He is placed so that he could go either way, and has shown aptitude in both tapping into the dark and light side of the force.
Then there's the Bendu, who's just like "fuck your philosophy, you're both zealots".
Doesn't star wars rebels do that a little bit? Or maybe not, I haven't actually watched it outside of some clips
Rebels and the Clone Wars talk more about how the Jedi/Sith divide are kind of bull. There's people on both sides who are totally done with the whole concept of "Sith always do this, and Jedi always do this". The Light/Dark stuff is still pretty set-in-stone, but there's a few characters who break with teachings and a few of them get some good characterization.
Ahsoka is pretty "grey" as far as things go, she's not beholden to the Jedi path and a lot of her training under Anakin led her down a similar path. She's not spitting lightning, but she's also very proactive rather than defensive in her fighting and still has a lot of worldly attachments.
Ezra is basically the posterboy for "grey". He is placed so that he could go either way, and has shown aptitude in both tapping into the dark and light side of the force.
Then there's the Bendu, who's just like "fuck your philosophy, you're both zealots".
Then he turns himself into a storm and starts throwing lightning at everyone.
I kind of like Bendu. Seems like a cool guy.
I don't see what's so terrible about keeping Star Wars about good vs evil. We get enough soul crushing dispair in real life.
Neutral force users dont imply they cant be good or bad just that idolizing the extremes of the force do nothing but lead to a cycle conflicts and grudges
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
I prefer to think of the dark side of the force as being inherently abusive, like the frame of mind you have to be in to throw around force lightning or force choking mans is really damaging to your judgment and mental health. I guess Dark Side=aggression, and what Yoda says about the Dark Side NOT being more powerful, only more seductive, is a mirror to real life, where acting out your aggression seems very tempting, but ultimately it's not a good thing.
I guess I think the Jedi need to rebase their philosophy, not so much about avoiding being evil, and starting to actually be good. Recognizing that they are living beings with needs and ambitions, and that to be good is to try to achieve those things while respecting other living things' needs and ambitions. So I guess they have to throw away this idea of the Jedi as being impartial, detached beings and start accepting that they are going to have attachments, and lose things, and that it's going to hurt.
The reason Anakin fell was, remember, also because he believed in the ideals of the Empire: that a good man being decisive is better than a democracy. Dictatorship is also very alluring, like the dark side. I think they're related.
Children's rights are human rights.
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Ov3rchargeR.I.P. Mass EffectYou were dead to me for yearsRegistered Userregular
In past movies the really horrible dinosaur kills are reserved for evil or stupid or greedy characters, and this time around it's just an overworked secretary who's done nothing to deserve it
It feels overkill and a little mean
In past movies the really horrible dinosaur kills are reserved for evil or stupid or greedy characters, and this time around it's just an overworked secretary who's done nothing to deserve it
It feels overkill and a little mean
Also its just shot in this really gross exploitive way. I don't know how anybody can enjoy that particular five minutes.
I prefer to think of the dark side of the force as being inherently abusive, like the frame of mind you have to be in to throw around force lightning or force choking mans is really damaging to your judgment and mental health. I guess Dark Side=aggression, and what Yoda says about the Dark Side NOT being more powerful, only more seductive, is a mirror to real life, where acting out your aggression seems very tempting, but ultimately it's not a good thing.
I guess I think the Jedi need to rebase their philosophy, not so much about avoiding being evil, and starting to actually be good. Recognizing that they are living beings with needs and ambitions, and that to be good is to try to achieve those things while respecting other living things' needs and ambitions. So I guess they have to throw away this idea of the Jedi as being impartial, detached beings and start accepting that they are going to have attachments, and lose things, and that it's going to hurt.
The reason Anakin fell was, remember, also because he believed in the ideals of the Empire: that a good man being decisive is better than a democracy. Dictatorship is also very alluring, like the dark side. I think they're related.
I just think the Sith and Darksiders get flanderized by their fans to the point where I just want them to STAY being stupid puppy kicking bastards. It's like Zeon. Oh okay, yeah, you guys have had it rough. Know how you make yourselves the greatest monsters in history and me not care about ANY of your stupid politics? Wiping out half of the Earth's population with colony drops, and then whining about it when you lose.
It's like, no, you want the cool armor and the lightening powers? then you have to either be headcase, a child soldier fanatic, or evil incarnate. You can't be a "cool" free-wheeling rebel darksider. It's like trying to take Dracula and making him kind and love sick.
I prefer to think of the dark side of the force as being inherently abusive, like the frame of mind you have to be in to throw around force lightning or force choking mans is really damaging to your judgment and mental health. I guess Dark Side=aggression, and what Yoda says about the Dark Side NOT being more powerful, only more seductive, is a mirror to real life, where acting out your aggression seems very tempting, but ultimately it's not a good thing.
I guess I think the Jedi need to rebase their philosophy, not so much about avoiding being evil, and starting to actually be good. Recognizing that they are living beings with needs and ambitions, and that to be good is to try to achieve those things while respecting other living things' needs and ambitions. So I guess they have to throw away this idea of the Jedi as being impartial, detached beings and start accepting that they are going to have attachments, and lose things, and that it's going to hurt.
The reason Anakin fell was, remember, also because he believed in the ideals of the Empire: that a good man being decisive is better than a democracy. Dictatorship is also very alluring, like the dark side. I think they're related.
It's like trying to take Dracula and making him kind and love sick.
It's weird how your example is actually something great!
I mean, how else were they gonna get her over the tank?
I don't see anything brutal or exploitative about it - in fact, the bad CG of the movie (my one real issue with it) lessens the impact of it. I find the lawyer scene in JP to be way more horrifying, but even that isn't really played for laughs (outside of the reveal that he's on the toilet), it's just that he's kind of a dick
When I imagine something exploitative that I wouldn't wanna see in a Jurassic movie, I think of Quint's death in Jaws, a lot of close-ups of his facial reactions as he's very visibly being ripped in half. It fit in that film but wouldn't really fit the spirit of JP, I don't think
Every death in Jurassic World feels pretty light and quick
I mean, how else were they gonna get her over the tank?
I don't see anything brutal or exploitative about it - in fact, the bad CG of the movie (my one real issue with it) lessens the impact of it. I find the lawyer scene in JP to be way more horrifying, but even that isn't really played for laughs (outside of the reveal that he's on the toilet), it's just that he's kind of a dick
When I imagine something exploitative that I wouldn't wanna see in a Jurassic movie, I think of Quint's death in Jaws, a lot of close-ups of his facial reactions as he's very visibly being ripped in half. It fit in that film but wouldn't really fit the spirit of JP, I don't think
Every death in Jurassic World feels pretty light and quick
Whats exploitative about it is that its specifically called out as the first female kill in the series and its one of the most violent deaths shown.
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
Bloods EndBlade of TyshallePunch dimensionRegistered Userregular
I'm pretty ok with star wars being good versus evil, because the star wars version of good versus evil is less clear cut than whatever the fuck is we have to deal with in US politics.
The lawyer dies in JP not because he's a "blood sucking lawyer". It's because he abandons two children to near certain death. This flips the audience to accepting him as a casualty, by standard horror rules/conventions.
Also, going back to Star Wars, one of the sides of the Force lets you avoid death completely and fade into a Nirvana state, while the other tears your body apart and leaves you looking like a cancerous monster before you die in a huge, violent explosion. The Grey aspect of the Force does not fit. The rules of the Jedi being kind of bad is fine, but the Force itself is pretty straightforward.
Thinking about it, it's neat how the Light Side allows you to gracefully move on to a new plane of existence while the Dark Side goes in for prolonging your existence that you're familiar with, no matter what the cost. So your Dark Siders haunt a tomb for thousands of years or replace their body with robot parts or LARP The Prestige and so on.
Hey remember that part in Jurassic World where a secretary is killed on screen in a brutal and cruel manner
Hilarious
I thought that scene could have been cool as it is, just happening to a different person. She didn't deserve that! Why does she get killed in such an over the top manner while one of the main antagonists is killed off screen?
Bah!
My knowledge of the Star Wars EU is pretty limited, but outside of the KOTOR franchise, has there ever been a story about how the whole binary 'light/dark' choice for a force user is kind of bullshit? That context and shades of grey are all around us and sometimes one approach is better than the other?
Cause honestly I could see TLJ's title kinda referring to that idea, with Luke coming to terms with it and Kylo eventually embracing it.
Legacy of the Force tried to do that, specifically with "Traitor." Years later Lucas retconned that because he disliked the idea and that's how Jacen Solo got corrupted by the Sith.
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There isn't, really, because Star Wars is generally a story about Dark versus Light. Good versus Evil. Space Fantasy and all that.
Yeah I guess you're right
Maybe I'm looking for that kind of deep dive into adherence to dogma and the consequences therein in the wrong place, but after decades of the stuff I'm getting a little tired of every force user making the choice between Magical Monk or Evil Wizard Guy
Uh-oh I accidentally deleted my signature. Uh-oh!!
There are very clear good guys and bad guys.
The closest might be Rogue One which features damaged people doing questionable things for a noble purpose.
Theres the novel Traitor from the New Jedi Order Books,
Jacen Solo is captured and tortured/lectured at by an Old Republic Jedi named Vergere who was pretty grey jedi like, no light or dark side just the force
then the Legacy of the Force books retconned Vergere into being a Sith trying to turn Jacen into a Sith because of course she was always a Sith!
Rebels has definitely gotten into this with that Bhindu (sp?) character.
I do get the sense that that's where this is headed
Which is interesting because for all his faults, I grew to kinda like Lucas's take on the Light/Dark sides: That the Dark Side and the Sith were a corruption of the Force, and that's why "bringing balance to the Force" actually did mean eradicating the Sith and not the kinda silly "Anakin brought balance to the Force by killing all those Jedi" thing that got thrown around for a while
But I'm not surprised that, free from Lucas's influence, the story is veering into a more shades-of-grey approach, and I don't think I mind. I'm potentially fine with either philosophy, because they're both interesting to me
Because the idea that the force had to let the Empire happen just to kill Palpatine is fucking ludicrous
Not so much in the past considering it really ruffled Lucas' feathers. You can see that in how quick Bioware was to invalidate everything about KOTOR 2 after they regained control.
A common theory is that The emperor intentionally made and again so that he can use him as a weapon.
So the emperor space raped anakin's mom? That's a shitty theory.
But Lucas notoriously hates the KOTOR series because they were trying new things, like the Force not being binary, and you can kill a Jedi if you're patient and have few emotions or whatever.
It's also the only theory with any real backing in the movies. Anikens mom had a virgin birth and the emperors master specifically could create life.
Shrug
Uh-oh I accidentally deleted my signature. Uh-oh!!
I always took that to mean he could do shady dark side force healing. Not that he could create organisms.
Like he basically does everything but outright state "I did this to your mom by the way"
This is the greatest thing to come out of SWCO.
Rebels and the Clone Wars talk more about how the Jedi/Sith divide are kind of bull. There's people on both sides who are totally done with the whole concept of "Sith always do this, and Jedi always do this". The Light/Dark stuff is still pretty set-in-stone, but there's a few characters who break with teachings and a few of them get some good characterization.
Ahsoka is pretty "grey" as far as things go, she's not beholden to the Jedi path and a lot of her training under Anakin led her down a similar path. She's not spitting lightning, but she's also very proactive rather than defensive in her fighting and still has a lot of worldly attachments.
Ezra is basically the posterboy for "grey". He is placed so that he could go either way, and has shown aptitude in both tapping into the dark and light side of the force.
Then there's the Bendu, who's just like "fuck your philosophy, you're both zealots".
Then he turns himself into a storm and starts throwing lightning at everyone.
I kind of like Bendu. Seems like a cool guy.
I've wondered if they cut out a bunch of scenes where she's a huge bitch or something
Neutral force users dont imply they cant be good or bad just that idolizing the extremes of the force do nothing but lead to a cycle conflicts and grudges
I guess I think the Jedi need to rebase their philosophy, not so much about avoiding being evil, and starting to actually be good. Recognizing that they are living beings with needs and ambitions, and that to be good is to try to achieve those things while respecting other living things' needs and ambitions. So I guess they have to throw away this idea of the Jedi as being impartial, detached beings and start accepting that they are going to have attachments, and lose things, and that it's going to hurt.
The reason Anakin fell was, remember, also because he believed in the ideals of the Empire: that a good man being decisive is better than a democracy. Dictatorship is also very alluring, like the dark side. I think they're related.
That's my favorite part of the move, it's like; "Oh you think dinosaurs are cool? Fuck you they're dangerous as shit."
It feels overkill and a little mean
Also its just shot in this really gross exploitive way. I don't know how anybody can enjoy that particular five minutes.
I just think the Sith and Darksiders get flanderized by their fans to the point where I just want them to STAY being stupid puppy kicking bastards. It's like Zeon. Oh okay, yeah, you guys have had it rough. Know how you make yourselves the greatest monsters in history and me not care about ANY of your stupid politics? Wiping out half of the Earth's population with colony drops, and then whining about it when you lose.
It's like, no, you want the cool armor and the lightening powers? then you have to either be headcase, a child soldier fanatic, or evil incarnate. You can't be a "cool" free-wheeling rebel darksider. It's like trying to take Dracula and making him kind and love sick.
It's weird how your example is actually something great!
I mean, how else were they gonna get her over the tank?
I don't see anything brutal or exploitative about it - in fact, the bad CG of the movie (my one real issue with it) lessens the impact of it. I find the lawyer scene in JP to be way more horrifying, but even that isn't really played for laughs (outside of the reveal that he's on the toilet), it's just that he's kind of a dick
When I imagine something exploitative that I wouldn't wanna see in a Jurassic movie, I think of Quint's death in Jaws, a lot of close-ups of his facial reactions as he's very visibly being ripped in half. It fit in that film but wouldn't really fit the spirit of JP, I don't think
Every death in Jurassic World feels pretty light and quick
Whats exploitative about it is that its specifically called out as the first female kill in the series and its one of the most violent deaths shown.
For some reason this makes me want to cry.
Also, going back to Star Wars, one of the sides of the Force lets you avoid death completely and fade into a Nirvana state, while the other tears your body apart and leaves you looking like a cancerous monster before you die in a huge, violent explosion. The Grey aspect of the Force does not fit. The rules of the Jedi being kind of bad is fine, but the Force itself is pretty straightforward.
Thinking about it, it's neat how the Light Side allows you to gracefully move on to a new plane of existence while the Dark Side goes in for prolonging your existence that you're familiar with, no matter what the cost. So your Dark Siders haunt a tomb for thousands of years or replace their body with robot parts or LARP The Prestige and so on.
I thought that scene could have been cool as it is, just happening to a different person. She didn't deserve that! Why does she get killed in such an over the top manner while one of the main antagonists is killed off screen?
Bah!
Fun fact which this forum probably will appreciate:
the girl's dad is Dino Ignacio!
e: okay it even says so in the image, so it's not as much of a fun fact. Oh well!
Legacy of the Force tried to do that, specifically with "Traitor." Years later Lucas retconned that because he disliked the idea and that's how Jacen Solo got corrupted by the Sith.
There is one way to be certain, so a soft or hard reboot/retcon the prequels and/or his origin.