KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
So because the DH players just barely got out of a situation they were supposed to asplode a building in but didn’t and got the job done anyway, they still have like four packs of TnT (Demolition Charges). If they decide to blow up the cult hideout near the entrance, should I punish them because this place was designed from the start (pre-TNT) to have a secret exit to a maze of abandoned maintenance tunnels underneath a port (present in corebook’s lore)?
The plan was for their handler and a few stormtroopers to accompany them on a purge and then daemon dogs, heavy bolter ambushes, daemon idols, and such, but what if they just decide screw it?
There’s also like stolen Sisters of Battle bolters and a note that leads them to the next adventure here.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
No good campaign survives contact with the players.
If players don't want to do something, make something else up.
Or have them find a detour adventure that lead them eventually back to your original plan.
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
edited November 2017
Well I didn’t mean like take away XP or anything. Just have an uninjured/uncrushed few get away with the bolters they were storing and have them deal with that later.
Maybe angry devil dogs could find their way to them because the acolytes blew up most of the summoner’s hideout with any pissed cultists still alive (probably drop from 40 of them parceled out in separate encounters to 8-10 right behind the dogs in a couple rounds) to pincer in an abandoned magrail tunnel. Fleshhounds are really good at finding people.
Edit: minus the big guns I was planning obviously because who wants to lug the size of and greater weight than a WW2 Browning Machine Gun for like the 500 meters it will take to get back there to the entrance to the place?
Edit 2: oh with that amount of time their handler could tell them and the storm trooper team with him to split up and search around for survivors or something, leading to them either falling into an ambush or stealthing their way through the dark but with the fleshhounds on their tail. I even have that tunnel map my other players never used.
Edit 3: would even solve my problem of the stormtroopers possibly being too good against the fleshhounds which only have an armor of 12 vs 7 pen from hotshots. It could be a 1 vs 5 fight with cultists backing it up after a few turns while another flesh hound searches for the stormtroopers.
Edit 4: and if they leave anyone alive they can get out of them the secret entrance to the place and still get to the note and weapons.
Edit 5: I am imperialist system american so I may not know how far 500m is in american so I picked out something that would take time to traverse but is reasonable. Just like... more than 3-5 football fields in length.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
Yea, player actions having an impact on the story is like, A+ good job. I'd be careful about thinking in terms of "punish" and more think along the lines of "So what cool things does this make happen?" just to get in the right headspace for creating them.
Actual big huge negative stuff should be pretty clearly signposted and the result of a knowing and overt choice on the part of the players. As ever, I shall point to 13th Age which has a concept of "Campaign Loss". 13th Age uses a different idea of the D&D "day" where abilities recharge after the players do something meaningful, which oddly happens every 4 fights or so, and is called a "Campaign Victory". The Campaign Loss is if they decide they can't win and choose to rest earlier, they get into a fight and decide they can't win it and choose to retreat (which will always be successful) or just flat out lose a fight. The instructions for a Campaign Loss is to advance the story in a way that is completely against the player character's objectives.
The big important thing to me is that two of those are completely sign posted and totally in the control of the players. The other would typically be the end of the campaign or a campaign loss in everything but name in other systems.
Oh. Then I think I chose my words poorly. I meant that.
Like the reason why these guys have heavy weapons is because my alpha team (who will not decide on a cool team name so I don’t have to keep calling them “alpha team”, “My other group”, “my first group”) majorly blew the investigation that would have led them to stopping the theft of a big weapons shipment. Those guys are getting a big ambush along with the introduction of a new recurring antagonist I cooked up because someone knows their faces now. They’re like high end, in the middle of a crowded street with alleyways and buildings with open interiors and such and are basically travelling in what looks like an armored WW2 era sports car though so it’s not impossible for them.
Edit: giant non-sequitur, but thinking about DH stuff and watching Archer made me think of how fun a Cold War style DH spy game between the Imperial and Tau borders would be. Although to work you would need at least one Callidus assassin since their caste system wouldn’t allow a gue’vasa to get access to ethereals or whatever.
I'm not saying you can't do investigations in other game engines. You just have to get comfortable with handing out answers as is appropriate rather than sticking to target numbers or difficulties.
Is it a language clue? The Bard figures it out. Is it a magic clue? The Wizard figures it out. Is it a criminal clue? The Rogue figures it out. The rolls aren't important (except to the drama of the situation, obviously) so you let them make them. Regardless of the result, you move the investigation forward. If someone botches the group misses that clue but continues on, presumably figuring out what that clue was retrospectively. If they care.
But Gumshoe is built specifically to remove those ambiguities. It simply assumes everyone's a trained investigator with their specialties and hands them information to help them piece the conspiracy together.
Yeah, the most critical important thing that Gumshoe makes clear is that in an investigative game the challenge is not in finding clues, the challenge is working out what the clues mean. You should never fail to find clues.
I do this as well, and I communicate this to all my players. For example, in my D&D games perception as a skill is only useful for detecting stealth; no clue ever hinges upon a roll. That being said I still make my players roll a die. I've found that just the act of rolling makes them feel as if they are performing the action, and when multiple players roll the same skill the highest is the one who finds the clue first. The other thing I'm actually quite anal on is making my players describe how and what they're searching. "I search the room" isn't good enough, or rather it evokes a response of "There's a this and a that and a this. What do you search?"
飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
They might not understand your imagining of the room. I have trouble with that.
Totally fair. And even more so that some players have trouble visualizing without pictures or a grid. I don’t like playing on a grid because (IMO) it takes up too much time to manage, etc. but I do try to bring pictures or figures or just draw roughly on a grid to help with that. On the other hand some players just don’t pay attention the first time through, which is super annoying. The trouble is it’s hard to distinguish between the two, so I always treat my players like they fall into the former while my monkey brain harbors the secret belief that they’re all the latter.
飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
edited November 2017
Anyone with knowledge of FFG’s 40k RPG system, do you know how shooting passengers/drivers work? I want to Fredo my players but one of them said it’s -20 to hit someone in a car but I can’t find that rule.
Anyone with knowledge of FFG’s 40k RPG system, do you know how shooting passengers/drivers work? I want to Fredo my players but one of them said it’s -20 to hit someone in a car but I can’t find that rule.
I believe that would stem from the argument that it would be a Called Shot, which normally incurs a -20 penalty. Someone has helpfully archived the Apocrypha Dark Hersey rules for Vehicle Combat that Black Industries came out with before FFG took over. I don't recall if vehicle combat rules were ever officially revised and published in a later supplement, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were and the name of the particular book is just escaping me.
KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
edited November 2017
Yey, they actually did have a rule. I can finally put that to bed, and Fredo them.
Also they obviously get a -20 to get hit if it’s a moving vehicle, but in this case where it came up they were stationary.
Edit: here’s the rule
Edit: Would it be security to get out of handcuffs/manacles by popping a joint out or whatever?
Edit: Drokk. I meant Sonny them.
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
Okay, so DH2E overwatch. The rules say if a character is performing an action at the same time the overwatch condition is met, the character with higher agility goes first. Does that mean that if say a ganger walks into the overwatch kill zone, but had higher agility, does he get to use his other half action to shoot first? One of my players’ characters had to burn a fate point because he got caught with eight people shooting at him after he was out of overwatch for evading.
$2.99 for the ICRPG core book PDF. Pretty sure that still comes with an extra book of tables and an adventure. If you haven't heard of it before, this is a system created by simplifying D&D 5e into its purest form. It's great for one shots, too.
$2.99 for the ICRPG core book PDF. Pretty sure that still comes with an extra book of tables and an adventure. If you haven't heard of it before, this is a system created by simplifying D&D 5e into its purest form. It's great for one shots, too.
I'm started a new D&D 5E campaign with a bunch of strangers, but I think the advice I'm after is relevant to role playing games in general. So I like a semi-serious tone for my D&D games; I'd say Brandon Sanderson levels of humor are about where I'd like to be. I've got a player who wants to play at a Terry Pratchett level. Additionally he's kind of a drain on the party from a mechanical standpoint. Now I don't mind a good personality flaw or two, in fact I really like mechanics that reward players for succumbing to these flaws, like how ki points are gained in the FFG L5R beta. I support that in D&D 5E by liberally handing out Inspiration when a player plays to his flaws. This guy though, he's playing a bard without any social skills, no weapons, and some questionable choices for spells. His race choice is really weird too: he deliberately chose to play an incredibly rare and niche race (Sea Elf) without necessarily wanting to use those mechanical advantages (doesn't care for a sea-based campaign). Instead he wants to play through a narrative of needing to keep a disguise on at all times, but then in-game he constantly role played incredibly conspicuous behavior like he wanted to be caught. I think it might just be a tone mismatch between us, so I talked to him about it tonight, but I'm a little worried that I might have crushed his spirits.
For the thread, how have you handled situations or players like this? Do your players mind having a party member that's a liability?
飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
You and your players should largely be on the same page as far as tone and mechanical expectations are concerned, so as long as you're communicating that clearly and giving the player the opportunity to tweak and play with his concept to better fit the rest of the game I think you're doing it right. If what he wants and what you want just fundamentally does not match up, maybe he needs to find a different game.
I can't answer the second game because I pretty much only play games where every character is a liability.
As far as useless characters go they really feels like more of a player/player issue than one for the DM. Assuming you're aware enough you're not really counting the inept dude and balancing for one less player that is. Though it would be completely fair for any of the other players, in character or not, to ask why they'd bring along Captain Useless instead of wishing them well at the inn and encouraging them to avoid lethal scenarios because they're so very unsuited for it.
$2.99 for the ICRPG core book PDF. Pretty sure that still comes with an extra book of tables and an adventure. If you haven't heard of it before, this is a system created by simplifying D&D 5e into its purest form. It's great for one shots, too.
As far as useless characters go they really feels like more of a player/player issue than one for the DM. Assuming you're aware enough you're not really counting the inept dude and balancing for one less player that is. Though it would be completely fair for any of the other players, in character or not, to ask why they'd bring along Captain Useless instead of wishing them well at the inn and encouraging them to avoid lethal scenarios because they're so very unsuited for it.
I would agree generally, but for the most part we're a bunch of strangers with me in the lead for starting and DMing this group. It's been my experience that there are a lot of people who are attracted to tabletop RPGs to fulfill some need they don't get enough of in their regular lives. So maybe my weird sea elf bard just doesn't get the kind of attention he craves. I can sympathize, and I'm experienced enough push the story along when he gets too needy. So in this case I'd rather settle it from the position of authority as the DM rather than let the players do so. Less hurt feelings that way imo. As to why they adventure with him, that is again my prerogative as the DM. 9 times out of 10 I start all my games with "You all know each other well and are friends." God knows how many PC deaths this has prevented...
飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
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Mostlyjoe13Evil, Evil, Jump for joy!Registered Userregular
A perfect way of handling things. The trade off if/then you present to players who want something. You list a price in game event terms or dice action.
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
As far as useless characters go they really feels like more of a player/player issue than one for the DM. Assuming you're aware enough you're not really counting the inept dude and balancing for one less player that is. Though it would be completely fair for any of the other players, in character or not, to ask why they'd bring along Captain Useless instead of wishing them well at the inn and encouraging them to avoid lethal scenarios because they're so very unsuited for it.
I would agree generally, but for the most part we're a bunch of strangers with me in the lead for starting and DMing this group. It's been my experience that there are a lot of people who are attracted to tabletop RPGs to fulfill some need they don't get enough of in their regular lives. So maybe my weird sea elf bard just doesn't get the kind of attention he craves. I can sympathize, and I'm experienced enough push the story along when he gets too needy. So in this case I'd rather settle it from the position of authority as the DM rather than let the players do so. Less hurt feelings that way imo. As to why they adventure with him, that is again my prerogative as the DM. 9 times out of 10 I start all my games with "You all know each other well and are friends." God knows how many PC deaths this has prevented...
For some reason I initially read this as Player deaths prevented, and thought "Wow, tough crowd."
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
I have pretty high hopes for Genesys, considering how much I enjoyed playing EotE. Let me know how it is, as I haven't bought it myself yet, but I'm super interested in using it for my next roleplaying campaign.
I have pretty high hopes for Genesys, considering how much I enjoyed playing EotE. Let me know how it is, as I haven't bought it myself yet, but I'm super interested in using it for my next roleplaying campaign.
It seems pretty great?
It's basically EotE with species replaced by Archetypes and Careers not determining talent options anymore. Otherwise it's basically the same game with some stuff cleaned up and fixed (like they removed the stupid XP tax on starting Brawn, for example).
I've been working out a campaign world of my own, coming at it from a default of D&D. Classes and weapons and even magic I think I can make do with Genesys and change my thinking away from d20. But I don't want to have to the heavy lifting of recreating the majority of monsters in a new system.
I've been working out a campaign world of my own, coming at it from a default of D&D. Classes and weapons and even magic I think I can make do with Genesys and change my thinking away from d20. But I don't want to have to the heavy lifting of recreating the majority of monsters in a new system.
The bestiary is pretty light, but there are full rules for building enemies.
One of the six built-in settings is fantasy D&D style setting. It's got elves and dwarves and magics.
Cool. I'll see if I can get my hands on it. I look forward to hearing more about it from people who actually have it and will play it. Keep commenting!
As far as useless characters go they really feels like more of a player/player issue than one for the DM. Assuming you're aware enough you're not really counting the inept dude and balancing for one less player that is. Though it would be completely fair for any of the other players, in character or not, to ask why they'd bring along Captain Useless instead of wishing them well at the inn and encouraging them to avoid lethal scenarios because they're so very unsuited for it.
I would agree generally, but for the most part we're a bunch of strangers with me in the lead for starting and DMing this group. It's been my experience that there are a lot of people who are attracted to tabletop RPGs to fulfill some need they don't get enough of in their regular lives. So maybe my weird sea elf bard just doesn't get the kind of attention he craves. I can sympathize, and I'm experienced enough push the story along when he gets too needy. So in this case I'd rather settle it from the position of authority as the DM rather than let the players do so. Less hurt feelings that way imo. As to why they adventure with him, that is again my prerogative as the DM. 9 times out of 10 I start all my games with "You all know each other well and are friends." God knows how many PC deaths this has prevented...
For some reason I initially read this as Player deaths prevented, and thought "Wow, tough crowd."
Posts
The plan was for their handler and a few stormtroopers to accompany them on a purge and then daemon dogs, heavy bolter ambushes, daemon idols, and such, but what if they just decide screw it?
There’s also like stolen Sisters of Battle bolters and a note that leads them to the next adventure here.
If players don't want to do something, make something else up.
Or have them find a detour adventure that lead them eventually back to your original plan.
Maybe angry devil dogs could find their way to them because the acolytes blew up most of the summoner’s hideout with any pissed cultists still alive (probably drop from 40 of them parceled out in separate encounters to 8-10 right behind the dogs in a couple rounds) to pincer in an abandoned magrail tunnel. Fleshhounds are really good at finding people.
Edit: minus the big guns I was planning obviously because who wants to lug the size of and greater weight than a WW2 Browning Machine Gun for like the 500 meters it will take to get back there to the entrance to the place?
Edit 2: oh with that amount of time their handler could tell them and the storm trooper team with him to split up and search around for survivors or something, leading to them either falling into an ambush or stealthing their way through the dark but with the fleshhounds on their tail. I even have that tunnel map my other players never used.
Edit 3: would even solve my problem of the stormtroopers possibly being too good against the fleshhounds which only have an armor of 12 vs 7 pen from hotshots. It could be a 1 vs 5 fight with cultists backing it up after a few turns while another flesh hound searches for the stormtroopers.
Edit 4: and if they leave anyone alive they can get out of them the secret entrance to the place and still get to the note and weapons.
Edit 5: I am imperialist system american so I may not know how far 500m is in american so I picked out something that would take time to traverse but is reasonable. Just like... more than 3-5 football fields in length.
Actual big huge negative stuff should be pretty clearly signposted and the result of a knowing and overt choice on the part of the players. As ever, I shall point to 13th Age which has a concept of "Campaign Loss". 13th Age uses a different idea of the D&D "day" where abilities recharge after the players do something meaningful, which oddly happens every 4 fights or so, and is called a "Campaign Victory". The Campaign Loss is if they decide they can't win and choose to rest earlier, they get into a fight and decide they can't win it and choose to retreat (which will always be successful) or just flat out lose a fight. The instructions for a Campaign Loss is to advance the story in a way that is completely against the player character's objectives.
The big important thing to me is that two of those are completely sign posted and totally in the control of the players. The other would typically be the end of the campaign or a campaign loss in everything but name in other systems.
Oh. Then I think I chose my words poorly. I meant that.
Like the reason why these guys have heavy weapons is because my alpha team (who will not decide on a cool team name so I don’t have to keep calling them “alpha team”, “My other group”, “my first group”) majorly blew the investigation that would have led them to stopping the theft of a big weapons shipment. Those guys are getting a big ambush along with the introduction of a new recurring antagonist I cooked up because someone knows their faces now. They’re like high end, in the middle of a crowded street with alleyways and buildings with open interiors and such and are basically travelling in what looks like an armored WW2 era sports car though so it’s not impossible for them.
Edit: giant non-sequitur, but thinking about DH stuff and watching Archer made me think of how fun a Cold War style DH spy game between the Imperial and Tau borders would be. Although to work you would need at least one Callidus assassin since their caste system wouldn’t allow a gue’vasa to get access to ethereals or whatever.
I do this as well, and I communicate this to all my players. For example, in my D&D games perception as a skill is only useful for detecting stealth; no clue ever hinges upon a roll. That being said I still make my players roll a die. I've found that just the act of rolling makes them feel as if they are performing the action, and when multiple players roll the same skill the highest is the one who finds the clue first. The other thing I'm actually quite anal on is making my players describe how and what they're searching. "I search the room" isn't good enough, or rather it evokes a response of "There's a this and a that and a this. What do you search?"
Edit: Sonny them
I believe that would stem from the argument that it would be a Called Shot, which normally incurs a -20 penalty. Someone has helpfully archived the Apocrypha Dark Hersey rules for Vehicle Combat that Black Industries came out with before FFG took over. I don't recall if vehicle combat rules were ever officially revised and published in a later supplement, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were and the name of the particular book is just escaping me.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Also they obviously get a -20 to get hit if it’s a moving vehicle, but in this case where it came up they were stationary.
Edit: here’s the rule
Edit: Would it be security to get out of handcuffs/manacles by popping a joint out or whatever?
Edit: Drokk. I meant Sonny them.
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/212262
For the thread, how have you handled situations or players like this? Do your players mind having a party member that's a liability?
I can't answer the second game because I pretty much only play games where every character is a liability.
I'm sorry I don't have good advice. It sounds like you already did the right thing. But that character concept is just ugh.
Fool You! /LordHelmet.gif
Sorry, guess it was just for Cyber Monday. Dang.
I would agree generally, but for the most part we're a bunch of strangers with me in the lead for starting and DMing this group. It's been my experience that there are a lot of people who are attracted to tabletop RPGs to fulfill some need they don't get enough of in their regular lives. So maybe my weird sea elf bard just doesn't get the kind of attention he craves. I can sympathize, and I'm experienced enough push the story along when he gets too needy. So in this case I'd rather settle it from the position of authority as the DM rather than let the players do so. Less hurt feelings that way imo. As to why they adventure with him, that is again my prerogative as the DM. 9 times out of 10 I start all my games with "You all know each other well and are friends." God knows how many PC deaths this has prevented...
A perfect way of handling things. The trade off if/then you present to players who want something. You list a price in game event terms or dice action.
For some reason I initially read this as Player deaths prevented, and thought "Wow, tough crowd."
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Assume breach positions
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
It seems pretty great?
It's basically EotE with species replaced by Archetypes and Careers not determining talent options anymore. Otherwise it's basically the same game with some stuff cleaned up and fixed (like they removed the stupid XP tax on starting Brawn, for example).
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
I've been working out a campaign world of my own, coming at it from a default of D&D. Classes and weapons and even magic I think I can make do with Genesys and change my thinking away from d20. But I don't want to have to the heavy lifting of recreating the majority of monsters in a new system.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
The bestiary is pretty light, but there are full rules for building enemies.
One of the six built-in settings is fantasy D&D style setting. It's got elves and dwarves and magics.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
RPGs are serious business.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Black leaf might have an antidote.
Where’s the paladin/cleric when you need one?
tbf back when Chick made that tract, D&D was full of bullshit traps that killed you instantly if you didn't detect them or failed save
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
"Uhhh. Johnny Thievington the 17th."
"Well he's dead."
"Okay. Johnny Thievington the 18th, his trusty hirelings, steps forward and searches for traps."
How is the Android example setting? And how easy is it too mix and match. If you wanted to combine fantasy and sci fi to make Shadowrun for example?