[Dead Cells] is a roguelite Castlevania

Fawst

I actually haven't played in a couple months. Not sure if anything has changed since then. I'll have to check. Been getting the itch to play again.

Naphtali

Fawst wrote: »

I actually haven't played in a couple months. Not sure if anything has changed since then. I'll have to check. Been getting the itch to play again.

They added daily mode, where you get a fixed map where you have to clear it and kill the most stuff & a boss at the end. There are two weapon patterns and one skill pattern tied to clearing it 1 time, 5 times and 10 times (doesn't have to be contiguous days clearing it). They cleaned up some mechanical stuff (you move slightly better between platforms, grab on sooner afaik) and added a speed buff mechanic (kill 2+ monsters at the same time and continuous kills extend the buff). They also changed how gold retention works, rebalanced shop prices and buffed scroll drop chances out in the world so you don't have to save all your money to buy them from every shop.

Overall I think its been a solid improvement

Myiagros

I started getting into this again and I'm liking the changes. I had been trying to do speed runs to get the door unlocks but yesterday I ran through Ossuary and found that there is a shop in there where you can buy lvl 4-6 weapons right away. Now the plan is to play through slowly so when I die I can carry over 10K while boosting my weapons with cells, then go Ossuary or Prison to gear up for a Watcher run.

Doing my previous route of charging through Promenade seems to not give anywhere near the upgrades that Ossuary does.

Naphtali

Update 4: The Brutal Update (reddit link) hit beta branch. Restructuring of the skill system, shield rework, two new areas, two new runes, and a new final boss are the highlights of this one. Really big patch.

Note: Upgrading weapons at the Collector is only temporarily disabled. I think the devs want to revisit how this works, but first want to get feed back on the skill system changes.

Zxerol

That's some pretty significant stuff! Looking forward to going back in again for some runs.

Naphtali

Brutal Patch hit release this week, played enough of the new update to get the newest runes & see the new biomes.

• Spider rune adds wall climbing (limited height) and wall jumping. Pretty neat, and lets you skip around some existing geometry that was annoying as well as adds in some new paths through the levels. Beiler rune lets you drop attack some terrain and break it open (identified by a rune on the ground). Spider rune is really cool but Beiler is the same as Vine & Teleport as it just lets you get into different branches of various maps.
• The stat system has been changed into Brutality (red), Tactics (purple), and Survival (green), and all items have been color coded to either be one color or two, meaning whichever stat you have highest and matches a color on the item will make it scale off that. Most weapons are Red or Red/Purple, but there's a few that are Red/Green. Most skill items are now Purple or Purple/Green and most shields are Green or Green/Purple or Green/Red. All stat ups increase damage by 25%, tactics still lowers skill item cool down (they are much higher then they used to be by default), and now all stats increase health but the difference is survival does it the most (20% per rank vs 7% for the other two). Brutality and Survival have additional abilities to match Tactics' adding CDR, Brutality adds bonus damage after a kill and Survival adds more damage after a parry. Right now, it seems going Survival is your best bet but you have a limited weapon selection to match it. But no longer the best results are simply going for weapon damage, so that's good. Stat scrolls are also now either the pick one of the three or give you an option between one or the other, there are no longer single stat scrolls. Shields are way stronger right now, I recommend giving them a try and getting used to parrying.
• Shields also got a larger change, they no longer fully block damage but a %. Parries still fully block damage. There are some that nearly or fully block but don't parry now.
• The two new areas are the Slumbering Sanctuary & Clock Tower. They've got some pretty neat new mechanics & enemies, don't want to spoil too much there. Here's a map with a breakdown of the new zone & boss arrangements.
• There's still some bugs in the random level generation that may end in some inaccessible areas. The devs are aware and are working on a follow up patch. Item upgrading in the shop is currently disabled, but will also get turned back on in a patch.
• They added a new item you can unlock called the Hunter's Grenade - it lets you farm for specific rare blueprints off mobs hit with it (it always spawns in the first area once you unlock it). When you hit the mob with it, they turn into an elite and drop a Blueprint Extractor item on the ground. Knock the elite down to <40% and then channel the Blueprint Extractor item to finish off the elite. While this is great, it doesn't work on mob types that don't have elite versions (flyers, scarecrows). I was able to shake out the Infinite Bow & Arrow out of the archers in the first area though. It's definitely a step in the right direction.
• They added a bunch of new weapons/shield by default, and a bunch of new models for existing enemies as well, as well as new patterns on the new monsters as well.
• The Watcher was now moved to be a boss on the same tier as The Incomplete One with a new final boss, the Assassin added. I haven't gotten to the Assassin yet.

It's all coming along well, I feel like there's still some sort of spice missing in the new stat rework. Brutality needs a better passive than just extra temporary damage on kill. And I think I'd rather see more items drop during play - weapons are extremely rare, and part of the problem of a Survival build is your options of red/green weapons are very few. You can't count on getting a colorless item (only from cursed chests) that's usable in a run. Cursed chests are... very dangerous now, I feel because of this.

SteevL

*thread bump*

So I picked this game up during the Steam sale and quite like it! I have about 16 hours logged so far and I'm pretty much sticking to sword + shield because I just love parrying that much. I think the only rune I haven't found is the spider rune.

When I first played, I was regularly distributing my upgrade points to all three categories, but now I see that focusing on one (for me, brutality) tends to be the better way to go. It's still helpful for me to put a point or two into the other ones for the HP bonus, but until I did this I was having trouble with The Incomplete One on the Black Bridge. He's much less of an issue now. So far my favorite weapons are the frantic blade and the assassin's dagger.

Henroid

As far as being Early Access goes, does it feel complete as it is or is it obviously lacking?

APODionysus

Henroid wrote: »

As far as being Early Access goes, does it feel complete as it is or is it obviously lacking?

Its feels very close to complete. Like, yeah, its gonna get a few more levels apparently, but theres PLENTY of play to be had already. Honestly, if they said they were done now, Id be happy with the money spent.

SteevL

It definitely doesn't feel like an Early Access title to me, aside from the obvious "Hey, this is an Early Access title and some things might break" warning when you load it up. I've only had one crash so far, and that happened in my last half hour of playing. And I was happy to see that I only had to start at the beginning of the level where the crash happened (and the crash occurred very early).

I don't know how many levels are in the game, but one thing I'm really liking is how there are alternate stages, and how each stage has its own feel to it.

Naphtali

Here's a level layout for the current build (Brutal patch)

I'd say we'll see it go 1.0 sometime this year, while they're on 0.4 right now the game's maybe 60-80% complete but there's still a few biomes to be added (and at least another one-two bosses). But honestly, I put 40 hours into the last major build of the game and it was really solid then.

SteevL

I made it to the Old Sewers for the first time and quickly learned that doing the down+jump stomp move can be quite deadly there, especially when you have an item that makes you take x2.5 damage.

Henroid

I tried this a bit last night before (attempting to) sleep, and it is not what I expected at all. In a good way though.

SteevL

Dead Cells can be had for $12.74 at the Humble Store (or slightly less if you've got a Humble Monthly subscription) for the next two days.

Henroid

Made it to the ramparts for the first time. First thing I did was check to see if those are pitfalls.

I'm thinking I like parry-based shields a lot.

SteevL

I really should start branching out and giving non-shield runs a chance.

l_g

The main thing about the game that is kinda funny/goofy is that there is extremely little incentive to fight the enemies. The bulk of the stat boosts you find are just around the level, the bonus doors that give you money and Dead Cells for reaching them quickly often give you more money and cells than you could get from beating up the enemies, and sometimes even contain stat boosts, and you can often get good equipment from chests that you accidentally come across. Some of the later enemies will even spawn enemies on death that are guaranteed to not give you cells when you defeat them, so fighting them feels like a waste of time in addition to the risk you take of fighting them.

So since you get long-term bonuses (i.e. cells) very erratically from enemies defeated, the short term bonuses (e.g. money) are dubious, and you basically never get high-impact short term bonuses (e.g. equipment, stat boosters) from regular enemies, fighting enemies is just not worth it. On top of that, the bonus for beating a boss quickly is very high, but it's basically a lottery on whether or not you'll be outfitted with gear that provides the DPS to do that. No amount of enemy killing beforehand can actually help you with that.

The roguelike meta progression stuff winds up not making the game much more fun, and seems to have pushed the design into directions that kind of sabotage the game. I like the audio and feel of the game actions, but my takeaway of every session I've had with the game is "what a waste of time that was".

Henroid

I've found stat boost as enemies drops, albeit rare. Plus killing enemies fills your coffers. If there's a playstyle or weapon set you aspire for you can buy it all the time.

I just ran into a boss which I didn't know was a thing. I actually almost had it too but I didn't know it had this double-whammy charge ability when I was trying to optimize a heal I had available. So I died instead. Something to aspire to!

durax

Enemies with stat boosts will have a star above their heads. (They even shows up on the map!)

Henroid

Okay so I finally caught on that weapons with dual-colors will take their damage from the highest only. It's kinda helped me into playing some effective styles, which are generally dictated by what I randomly start with in the game now.

But I feel like I'm spinning my wheels in the mud. I've got some teleport thing unlocked for some totems, and I can climb vines, but there's areas clearly only accessible by breaking through ground I can't break yet, or long vertical shafts that imply some sort of upward movement ability. The clock tower is a little rough, the ossuary is the same. I don't think I've cleared either one.

Fawst

Wow, I haven't played this since I posted in August. That's a pretty major set of changes from what I had last played!

Henroid

SteevL wrote: »

I made it to the Old Sewers for the first time and quickly learned that doing the down+jump stomp move can be quite deadly there, especially when you have an item that makes you take x2.5 damage.

I found out that down+jumping into spikes makes them hurt more!

SteevL

Henroid wrote: »

Okay so I finally caught on that weapons with dual-colors will take their damage from the highest only. It's kinda helped me into playing some effective styles, which are generally dictated by what I randomly start with in the game now.

But I feel like I'm spinning my wheels in the mud. I've got some teleport thing unlocked for some totems, and I can climb vines, but there's areas clearly only accessible by breaking through ground I can't break yet, or long vertical shafts that imply some sort of upward movement ability. The clock tower is a little rough, the ossuary is the same. I don't think I've cleared either one.

Yeah, you're missing two abilities. You just need to find the right paths to get to them.

Henroid

Oh shit. I just made it in a run to the Clock Room for the first time. I have 14 - 4 - 4 in my stats, no longer getting health bonuses from my primary damage stat. I'm kicking ass hard enough but I haven't upgraded my dual-daggers in a while. Here goes nothing I guess, I think this is a boss.

Edit - Gah holy shit! O.o

SteevL

I still haven't beaten the game or even make it to the final boss. Got pretty close today, but I made too many dumb mistakes and got mobbed.

Speaking of dumb mistakes, I still haven't beaten one of those challenges that involve getting through an area without getting hit. Today I learned that even if you have the shield that makes you invincible for 3 seconds after a successful parry, it seems that getting hit while invincible still counts as failing the challenge.

edit: update: I finally beat a challenge, hooray.

Henroid

Oh hey I got one of the powerups during what was supposed to be a trash run, experimenting with the lightning whip. Which I don't actually understand its advantage. Hopefully they give it one. It's like a weaker sword that doesn't stagger.

Fencingsax

I still have never beaten the watcher boss.

SteevL

Henroid wrote: »

Oh hey I got one of the powerups during what was supposed to be a trash run, experimenting with the lightning whip. Which I don't actually understand its advantage. Hopefully they give it one. It's like a weaker sword that doesn't stagger.

Its advantage is that it automatically aims itself towards enemies, so you can theoretically easily take out dudes above and below you. Probably most useful for the flying enemies. It's not really my style of play, though, and it kind of pains me as a Castlevania fan to say that I don't enjoy using the whip weapons I've found. I think that's one of my bigger beefs with the game: a huge variety of weapons, but the majority I just don't want to use. I groan whenever I get a slow sword or the boot weapon.

Zek

The strength of the lightning whip is that it stops you in midair while aiming at enemies safely below/above. I don't think its damage is quite sufficient though.

durax

All the whips ignore shields as well -- including the porcupines in the prison depths.
And I dare say Valmont's whip, which crits at a particular distance, is great against bosses (or anything with a large hitbox).

Henroid

I went into a new area with a weird light / poison mechanic, and was running a hard-brutal build with a fresh spear (had like almost 20 brutal stacks). So basically every enemy encounter was a non-issue.

Then the Assassin fucked me up hard because I missed every attempt counter it and also got caught trying to heal.

Henroid

Damn, I just had a crazy good run that ended with almost beating The Assassin. I got a 2x damage received and given assassin's dagger, and had a lot of lucky stat upgrade finds along the way. Tons of health, and my brutality was at the point where it stopped giving health. I was one-shotting enemies. So I get to the fight and I try to handle it as calmly as I can, taking him to just shy of half health. I hit him with a frozen grenade, and manage to position myself for backstabs - QUICKLY drops the damn boss to like 1/8 of their health and delaying the 2nd phase. But I got caught out with a hook and that was the end.

BlazeFire

Surely they will have to rework frozen/slow. They make boss fights laughable (at least on boss cell level 0). Also, my strategy is to level stats equally to maximize HP.

Henroid

BlazeFire wrote: »

Surely they will have to rework frozen/slow. They make boss fights laughable (at least on boss cell level 0). Also, my strategy is to level stats equally to maximize HP.

I was doing that strategy at first, but I tend to play games more aggressively once I figure out their mechanics. So I'd rather level the damage output so I can just blitz the game. Ain't got time to get hurt!

SteevL

I've gotten to the point where I can only spend cells on weapon/item upgrades after beating The Incomplete One because I've gotten everything else. That's not to say I've found all the blueprints, of course. I kind of wish I had known that I could have just busted down the door between the cells guy and the mutations guy because then I wouldn't have unlocked a bunch of items that I didn't think I'd like to use. Oh well!

Henroid

Speaking of upgrades, after a single upgrade items are red-out with a description saying the guy doesn't have the right tools to upgrade them yet. Is that a thing that exists in the game yet or no?

BlazeFire

Can you actually bust through the door between Cells and Mutation guys? I didn't think so...

You can do further upgrades if you are playing with boss cells.

SteevL

BlazeFire wrote: »

Can you actually bust through the door between Cells and Mutation guys? I didn't think so...

You can do further upgrades if you are playing with boss cells.

Maybe it only lets you if you can't spend your cells on anything? I didn't try until I couldn't move forward because it said the door only opened if I spent all my cells, but I couldn't spend my cells on anything.

Sort of like how I didn't find out you could destroy those golden doors that cost money to open with an item behind them in exchange for a curse until about 10 hours in.

durax

Those doors are breakable all the time.
I see no reason not to upgrade things though -- unless you are going for one of the achievements that says die while holding 100 cells.

The first time I broke the golden doors was when I was ground pounding through the first level and inadvertantly broke open the extra-life heart (don't know its name). Big ol' 30 hanging over my head made me nervous and I promptly died by missing a jump and landing in some spikes on the next level.

I swear if there was a mutation that made you immune to traps I wouldn't say "I hate this game!" so much while still enjoying the thrill of running for my life.

SteevL

I just died in the Clock Tower and was reminded that I had picked up a new blueprint in the previous level and failed to turn it in to the guy between levels because I'm just so used to bypassing him since he doesn't usually have anything for me to do with my cells. Oops.