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[Oxygen Not Included] Breath of Fresh Air! (DLC in Early Access)

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  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    edited August 27
    klemming wrote: »
    PMAvers wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    Things I wasn't expecting to say: Where the hell did this nuclear waste come from?

    I've got a radbolt collector spitting at a research thing, but that's all the radiation stuff I'm messing with at the moment.

    I think if the research terminal is full on radbolts and another one gets shot at it, it'll pass through and when it hits the wall and explodes will leave nuclear waste behind.

    Hmm. Is there way to automate that so it doesn't happen? I can't see one. I'm just hooking the collector up to a cycle timer for now (the easiest way to turn things on and off without needing a dupe to get to them that I've found).

    Not that I'm aware of. The only solution I've seen is to set a manual switch on the radbolt launcher to stop it from launching when it's not needed. I don't think there's a way to check if the research terminal is full with automation.

    EDIT: Although, if you can work it out so it doesn't endanger your dupes, you could set up a system where if it passes through the research without being used, it goes to a diamond press instead, which can contain a large amount of radbolts.

    Nova_C on
  • RightfulSinRightfulSin Registered User regular
    Alright. Dug down a chunk last night and found 2 salt water geysers. So that means that I have thus far found that cool steam vent and now these 2 salt water geysers. Think I might be set in regards to water, just need to setup the systems to utilize them properly.

    Beware the heat. If that water comes out hot, and likely it does, you'll need a reliable way to cool it down or it will cook your base over time.

    Ya I know. Luckily I suppose that both of the geysers are around 50-60 tiles down minimum, and are either left/right of my base borders by around 20 blocks.

    The danger isn't the heat from the geysers. It's the heat from the water. You pump hot water into your base and you can kiss any crops goodbye.

    I see. Seeing as how the sources are a distance away from my base, what would be a good way to cool it down? I read that it's better to cool oxygen down than water? That true, or relevant to right now? I also found a small biome pocket that as ice in it, but is a bit of a hike from either geyser/base.

    "If nothing is impossible, than would it not be impossible to find something that you could not do?" - Me
  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    edited August 27
    Alright. Dug down a chunk last night and found 2 salt water geysers. So that means that I have thus far found that cool steam vent and now these 2 salt water geysers. Think I might be set in regards to water, just need to setup the systems to utilize them properly.

    Beware the heat. If that water comes out hot, and likely it does, you'll need a reliable way to cool it down or it will cook your base over time.

    Ya I know. Luckily I suppose that both of the geysers are around 50-60 tiles down minimum, and are either left/right of my base borders by around 20 blocks.

    The danger isn't the heat from the geysers. It's the heat from the water. You pump hot water into your base and you can kiss any crops goodbye.

    I see. Seeing as how the sources are a distance away from my base, what would be a good way to cool it down? I read that it's better to cool oxygen down than water? That true, or relevant to right now? I also found a small biome pocket that as ice in it, but is a bit of a hike from either geyser/base.

    Piping it through a cold biome is the least energy intensive way to do it. It has the added benefit of adding cold water to your supply, and you can balance the two to bring in water that's a more appropriate temperature. The downside is it has a strict lifespan. Once you've melted all the ice in the cold biome, you have to have another solution.

    But by then you may have solved the energy problem and will be able to cool it using aquatuners and steam chambers.

    A more sustainable way is, there might be slush geysers tucked away on your asteroid as well, and if you can find them, using the slush geyser and hot water geyser to balance each other's output is infinitely sustainable.

    EDIT: Another thing: A steam turbine that has been tuned up by an Electrical Engineer will put out enough power to handle a single Aquatuner on it's own, if the steam turbine is at full capacity (That is, the steam temp is 190 degrees or so). That means dupe labour, and requires the steam be hot enough, but is also sustainable.

    Nova_C on
  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy The Astral PlaneRegistered User regular
    Piping water or air around one of those heat eating machines got me decently far the last time I played, and they don’t require that much hydrogen to run

  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Nullifiers can work, but you've got to find them first, and they're not always in convenient places.

    The universal answer for pretty much all cooling problems is aquatuners and steam turbines.

    If a liquid's too hot, run it through an aquatuner until it isn't. If something else is too hot, use the aquatuner to cool some water (polluted water is a better choice, as it can get colder without freezing and you probably have more of it) and pipe it past whatever you need to cool in a loop. When the aquatuner heats up, use it to heat steam and run it through a steam turbine to get rid of the heat.

    This needs steel for the aquatuner so it can run without overheating, and plastic for the steam turbine. So you're best off leaving most vents and geysers alone until you can make a shaft to the oil biome and get some oil for plastic (or find it some other way like glossy drekkos, but oil or the petroleum you can make from it are great refinery coolants, so you'll want to get some anyway).

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • Man in the MistsMan in the Mists Registered User regular
    edited August 27
    PMAvers wrote: »
    I should probably try to set up a “proper” cooling sometime. I’ve just got a cool slush geyser near my base that I use a lot in a completely kludged together fashion.

    Last time I found one of those, I tried popping in some Pacu in an insulated pool to make Gulp Fish, but I stopped playing before the mutations happened. The intent was to have the Gulp Fish turn the polluted water into ice then collect the ice for other purposes.

    Man in the Mists on
  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    edited August 28
    Apparently I hate making any sort of progress on a colony, since I re-rolled on a swamp SO cluster.

    Pros: they gave me a cool slush and a cool salt slush geyser visible from where I started. We chillin’ like villains. Plus the tele-porter is right there too.

    Cons: I forgot how much this biome can be a pain in the ass to build in due to all the mud, since it behaves like sand and will fall if not supported. I probably need to spend some time getting all the various ponds of water (normal and polluted) consolidated.

    PMAvers on
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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Nullifiers can work, but you've got to find them first, and they're not always in convenient places.

    The universal answer for pretty much all cooling problems is aquatuners and steam turbines.

    If a liquid's too hot, run it through an aquatuner until it isn't. If something else is too hot, use the aquatuner to cool some water (polluted water is a better choice, as it can get colder without freezing and you probably have more of it) and pipe it past whatever you need to cool in a loop. When the aquatuner heats up, use it to heat steam and run it through a steam turbine to get rid of the heat.

    This needs steel for the aquatuner so it can run without overheating, and plastic for the steam turbine. So you're best off leaving most vents and geysers alone until you can make a shaft to the oil biome and get some oil for plastic (or find it some other way like glossy drekkos, but oil or the petroleum you can make from it are great refinery coolants, so you'll want to get some anyway).

    And for what a proper aquatuner loop setup looks like...
    ?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false

    This is one design, but it's a good one. Rather than run the cooling loop straight through the aquatuner, the Aquatuner cools it's own self-contained loop that moves the chill over into a big storage tank of water (Which holds a TON of chill because of the sheer amount of thermal mass water provides)

    This storage tank is allowed to share heat with a second tank where the actual base cooling loop goes through. That tank is controlled it keep it an exact temp - if it gets too cold, a sensor triggers and the door between the two diamond panels opens up, creating a vacuum. Which basically drops the heat transfer to zero. That way i can keep my base nice and balmy at 23c or whatever i've picked (I'm usually growing temp senstive plants for decor), while keeping the aquatuner running at all times without issue.

    You can see how effective this is with the temp map here:
    ?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false

    Piping hot steam room, chilly chill storage room, and a nice comfortable temp in the actual cooling loop that keeps the base even.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • CaptainPeacockCaptainPeacock Board Game Hoarder Top o' the LakeRegistered User regular
    edited August 28
    I was an ardent practitioner of pond consolidation until I gave it a try the other way. Unless they are very, very small, it's just faster to use each one up in-situ.

    CaptainPeacock on
    Cluck cluck, gibber gibber, my old man's a mushroom, etc.
  • RightfulSinRightfulSin Registered User regular
    I see. Will need to look into those thongs then. Any simple design ideas for a 96(?) tile room for glossy drekkos for plastic? I say 96 because then it would fit nicely into my column of hatch farms that are those dimensions. I am thinking of having my farms and ranches on one side of my base, but on the outside of the base proper.

    The base is having a main template of 4 by 16 and it three columns wide and so far several floors deep. I am also thinking of moving my main water source out of base as well. Not sure where yet, but right now it is near the middle of the base proper. I also have some packs near by in some polluted water but haven't made the farm for them yet.

    "If nothing is impossible, than would it not be impossible to find something that you could not do?" - Me
  • CaptainPeacockCaptainPeacock Board Game Hoarder Top o' the LakeRegistered User regular
    Glossy Drecko farms do well vertically, in my experience. Make them tall rather than wide. That way you can pump in hydrogen to fill the top chamber and leave the bottom filled with oxygen for dupes to walk through and grow mealwood for them to eat.

    Cluck cluck, gibber gibber, my old man's a mushroom, etc.
    Nova_C
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    It doesn't fit in a easy space like that, but I've been using this 20x15 brick to make 2 97 tile ranches to farm both types:
    qgr85ndw9v5k.jpg
    I'm still not sure how well it works (and it's obviously more complex than a basic room), but my thinking was based on previous attempts where I found it hard to keep them in hydrogen while still having enough food for them, and it taking ages to get them from the ceiling to a grooming or shearing station, which also took up valuable farm space.

    The idea here is that since they can jump the one tile gaps, drekkos are always able to reach the stations fairly quickly (with the added benefit that they're still in hydrogen when being groomed, to speed up scale growth.

    Obviously I've automated the hell out of these (though I haven't found a good spot for a couple of receptacles so the farm tiles can be auto-tended), and I recently added the atmosuits (I originally expected them to just hold their breath which mostly worked but they whined about it and sometimes left early, then I gave them oxygen masks but they were still slowed down by the hydrogen).

    The pipes were because I ended up building this a little close to a steam geyser, so I needed to cool them down to the 20/30 range, then I just forget to clean up after myself.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
    chrono_travellerwobblyheadedbob
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Is there a good guide anywhere that explains all this space and rocket stuff?
    I finally bit the bullet and tried digging up to see what all the fuss is about, and I have no idea what I'm doing.
    I need to build a rocket, which wants fuel but I don't know how to load it in, and how to get a dupe inside to fly the thing, etc.

    I mostly want to get the orbital research thing working because I've scienced everything else I can.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    edited August 31
    For SO rockets, you'll pipe fuel directly into the engine on the rocket. It should have a port on it depending on what type it takes. I think the sucrose rockets can be loaded manually.

    To get a dupe in and get it to take off, you need to assign them as Crew on the Rocket Control Station in your Command Module. Note that *someone* in the crew should have the Pilot skill. When you're ready to take off, and the Launch Checklist is complete, you can hit the button on it to start launch prep which will have all the Crew load into that rocket.

    Each rocket needs at minimum a engine, command module, and a nosecone. The Solo Spacefarer Nosecone acts as both, but is a tight fit.

    PMAvers on
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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Yeah, I think they need to explain how this stuff works a little better.
    I got a rocket into space, did some research.
    Couldn't land it again.
    Set destination as the planetoid, fine. Click Land Here on the rocket platform, nothing seems to happen. If there's a 'land the rocket before your dupe starves to death' button, it's well concealed.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Yeah, I think they need to explain how this stuff works a little better.
    I got a rocket into space, did some research.
    Couldn't land it again.
    Set destination as the planetoid, fine. Click Land Here on the rocket platform, nothing seems to happen. If there's a 'land the rocket before your dupe starves to death' button, it's well concealed.

    There is a rare-ish bug where the rocket doesn't recognize that there is actually a planetoid at the destination you picked and fly into the planet (on the starmap) rather than immediately start landing once it's adjacent.

    I've usually been able to fix it by reloading and setting the destination again, but it's rare enough that you could probably use a save before launch and get it to work this time.

    steam_sig.png
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    So is that actually all I need to do, I'm not missing something?

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • CaptainPeacockCaptainPeacock Board Game Hoarder Top o' the LakeRegistered User regular
    I've only done rockets in SO, but landing has never been an issue (as long as there is a platform without any obstructions or problems). Just set the planetoid as a destination and it auto-picks the platform. Once they navigate into orbit, there's a small delay and down they go.

    Cluck cluck, gibber gibber, my old man's a mushroom, etc.
  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    Some other basic SPACE! things I was thinking about:

    You can't fly a rocket into unexplored space. To explore tiles on the starmap, you have two options:
    A dupe with the correct Research skill can use a Telescope building, which will explore a radius of a couple of tiles out from the planet they're on. The Telescope needs to be able to see the sky, which basically means it may have to sit outside if you don't have access to glass yet. (I *think* it can see through glass tiles, but I havn't tested it yet.)

    If you want to go even *further* beyond, you can equip your rocket with a Cartographic Module, which is at one of the end-points of the Computers research tree. A rocket with one can enter unexplored space and the module will automatically explore it. It's big and heavy, though, so you have to still worry about fuel and getting your dupes back home safely.

    ...Unless you don't care, of course.

    The Rover Module might seem weird at first glance. Like, who cares about exploring the planet's surface?

    Here's the thing the tool-tip doesn't tell you: A Rover can do basic construction, digging, and supplying tasks. So it can build basic walls, storage bins, dig up some materials and supply them so a newly arrived dupe can finish it off. And it doesn't require food, air or sleep, so it's kinda like having a second dupe on a new colony for a bit until it's battery runs out.

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  • CaptainPeacockCaptainPeacock Board Game Hoarder Top o' the LakeRegistered User regular
    You also put a telescope inside the command module by the window and it will work. Takes up a honking load of space though, it would only be good on a dedicated rocket for that and research purposes.

    Cluck cluck, gibber gibber, my old man's a mushroom, etc.
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    I just cant seem to lick gantry automation in this update. This coupled with the fact that the rocket automation port is at the bottom means that even steel isn't enough for the wires means that I am manually extending/retracting the gantries as need. Not nearly as fun

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
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  • CaptainPeacockCaptainPeacock Board Game Hoarder Top o' the LakeRegistered User regular
    I was able to do timed gantries that I synced up properly, but use an automation switch to flip on and off.

    Cluck cluck, gibber gibber, my old man's a mushroom, etc.
  • RightfulSinRightfulSin Registered User regular
    Ok, so what would be the best way to move chlorine gas out of the way? I am trying to build the outline of my base, but have smaller pocket caves filled with it inside the planned perimeter of my base. Also it's a shame you can't pick up and move the pod, having to plan my base around that, or just away from it a bit. hmmm...

    "If nothing is impossible, than would it not be impossible to find something that you could not do?" - Me
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Make sure you've got a narrow path leading to it so it can't escape around your pump, then build a pump close to the chlorine before you dig into it.
    If you set up an automated element sensor and valve, you can filter it to storage somewhere and everything else out to a vent.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • CaptainPeacockCaptainPeacock Board Game Hoarder Top o' the LakeRegistered User regular
    I used to just pump chlorine out to space until I discovered the salt vines. Cultivate some of those to suck it up and turn it into useful salt.

    Cluck cluck, gibber gibber, my old man's a mushroom, etc.
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    There's not that much chlorine on a regular map, and I find I use most of it as free decontamination.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    Honestly, I kind of wish there were more buildings that let you pump chlorine into them directly for effects?

    Like, imagine if there was a upgrade that you could research to enable a gas in port for the water sieve. Increase the power use, but it disinfects the water. Or into a diamond press to make bleach stone.

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  • RightfulSinRightfulSin Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Make sure you've got a narrow path leading to it so it can't escape around your pump, then build a pump close to the chlorine before you dig into it.
    If you set up an automated element sensor and valve, you can filter it to storage somewhere and everything else out to a vent.

    Ya. I probably end up doing that. I don't want to get rid of it totally, just rid of it where it is. Will plan on using it later for cleaning water and whatnot.

    klemming wrote: »
    There's not that much chlorine on a regular map, and I find I use most of it as free decontamination.

    Ya I just don't want it where it is. Want to move it out of my layout for my base proper.

    "If nothing is impossible, than would it not be impossible to find something that you could not do?" - Me
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    So how are people keeping their radbolt generators cool in space? Since it's "floating" it doesnt look like I am getting any cooling by placing it on metal tiles or running something behind it.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    I haven't gotten that far yet, but I assume building drywall or temp plates behind it would let you use the regular cooling methods?

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • CaptainPeacockCaptainPeacock Board Game Hoarder Top o' the LakeRegistered User regular
    I've been getting my radbolts from wheezeworts, so haven't tackled this particular problem yet.

    Cluck cluck, gibber gibber, my old man's a mushroom, etc.
  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    Yeah, the annoying part about building stuff in space that generates heat is that due to the lack of atmo, it has no way to really transfer between things in a vacuum. I havn't tested building a room that has glass tiles on the ceiling and air pumped into it to see how much that cuts down radbolt production. I know *one* way I had to keep them from blowing up was to pump water into the three tiles below the generator, and stuck a wheezewort next to it. That kept one going for a pretty long time, the harder part was keeping it *powered* for so long, since if a generator loses power the accumulated radbolts it has in start draining away.

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  • RightfulSinRightfulSin Registered User regular
    edited September 6
    So hey thread. I have hit a point where I am going to start laying down my new base (when home from work). Thus far I have just been hollowing out the starter biome, scrubbing CO2, farming for food, consolidating all water into a giant clean water reservoir, and chain researching.

    I got rid of the chlorine into a tank for later use so it's out of the way. So is it bad r w/e to have the printing pod not in your base or does it not matter? I suppose I can plan the base around it, it'll just be a bit of a hassle (due to some other lab sites found nearby). Can those machines be moved? Like some neural thing, and some item teleportation thing.

    I really wish you could pick up the printing pod and move it.

    RightfulSin on
    "If nothing is impossible, than would it not be impossible to find something that you could not do?" - Me
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    You can't move the existing machines. Non-critical ones can be deconstructed so long as you have a dupe with the right skill, but things like the teleporter have to stay where they are.
    I think there might be a workshop mod that lets you dismantle them and build them somewhere else?

    But no, there's no real need to have the printing pod in your base, so long as it's within reach when you print a new dupe or care package.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    PMAvers wrote: »
    Yeah, the annoying part about building stuff in space that generates heat is that due to the lack of atmo, it has no way to really transfer between things in a vacuum. I havn't tested building a room that has glass tiles on the ceiling and air pumped into it to see how much that cuts down radbolt production. I know *one* way I had to keep them from blowing up was to pump water into the three tiles below the generator, and stuck a wheezewort next to it. That kept one going for a pretty long time, the harder part was keeping it *powered* for so long, since if a generator loses power the accumulated radbolts it has in start draining away.

    From my testing glass tiles completely stop radbolts, at least the 50 strength ones. Didnt think to check if higher strength radbolts will go through. My current setup is using a tile of liquid to keep atmo while allowing radbolts out, but I don't like setups like that, they feel cheap.

    Move to New Zealand
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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    You can't move the existing machines. Non-critical ones can be deconstructed so long as you have a dupe with the right skill, but things like the teleporter have to stay where they are.
    I think there might be a workshop mod that lets you dismantle them and build them somewhere else?

    But no, there's no real need to have the printing pod in your base, so long as it's within reach when you print a new dupe or care package.

    Yeah, if you need to put your base somewhere else, just make sure the pod's surrounded by stuff that'll keep the environment clean, and has a one way pipe system that'll drop fresh dupes to the saftey of the main base or something. (Like literally build a box, and build a door that can only be passed through one way by new dupes so all they can do is walk straight into the pipe and go home)

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • RightfulSinRightfulSin Registered User regular
    edited September 12
    So what are sweetles for? I have found two pockets that each have around 6 of them inside. I am near more of them than hatches.

    I also have that grubfruit nearby, though haven't farmed any. My dupes are still just munching on muckroot and mealwood lice right now. Was going to start up ranches, but then while digging found all these sweetles. Still quite new to game so dont know what to do with these sweetles.

    Also found a cool steam vent and a natural gas geyser nearby as well. Man I need to get some plastic going for a oxygen system using the vent. Haven't dug down far enough, or even started a drekko farm though.

    RightfulSin on
    "If nothing is impossible, than would it not be impossible to find something that you could not do?" - Me
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    I'm not super up on sweetles, but I think they have some kind of positive effect on plants?
    They have a something small percent chance to lay grubgrub eggs, and those definitely work on plants. the example I'm using is that they turn spindly grubfruit plants into regular grubfruit plants, which give a better calorie output. I think the plant/critter combination is generally more effort than it's worth unless you can get everything lined up to cook it into grubfruit preserve (longer lasting, better calories, better quality).
    For this you need sucrose, which you can get from sweetles if you feed them sulfur.

    All told I prefer to put my effort into meat and fish farming, as once they're set up you can produce a ton of surf'n'turf.

    I may just not have enough of a handle on how to exploit them though, as most of the other critters have had some advantages to using them.

    I have ranches/farms using hatches and stone hatches (for meat and coal. I've moved onto mostly natural gas generators for power after taming a couple of geysers, but I keep my I don't even know how many hundred tons of coal for a backup), drekkos and glossy drekkos for fiber and plastic, a pacu farm next to a pacu tile where I keep the overspill (71 pacu in one tile, they're fine), and I'm just setting up my shove vole meat farm now.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • RightfulSinRightfulSin Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    I'm not super up on sweetles, but I think they have some kind of positive effect on plants?
    They have a something small percent chance to lay grubgrub eggs, and those definitely work on plants. the example I'm using is that they turn spindly grubfruit plants into regular grubfruit plants, which give a better calorie output. I think the plant/critter combination is generally more effort than it's worth unless you can get everything lined up to cook it into grubfruit preserve (longer lasting, better calories, better quality).
    For this you need sucrose, which you can get from sweetles if you feed them sulfur.

    All told I prefer to put my effort into meat and fish farming, as once they're set up you can produce a ton of surf'n'turf.

    I may just not have enough of a handle on how to exploit them though, as most of the other critters have had some advantages to using them.

    I have ranches/farms using hatches and stone hatches (for meat and coal. I've moved onto mostly natural gas generators for power after taming a couple of geysers, but I keep my I don't even know how many hundred tons of coal for a backup), drekkos and glossy drekkos for fiber and plastic, a pacu farm next to a pacu tile where I keep the overspill (71 pacu in one tile, they're fine), and I'm just setting up my shove vole meat farm now.

    How hard is a Natural Gas setup? Like I said I got a geyser near my base (South and to the West a bit. South and to the East is the Cool Steam Vent.)

    "If nothing is impossible, than would it not be impossible to find something that you could not do?" - Me
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Not too tough if you can handle the heat. Assuming you've got atmosuits, just wall the vent up and pump the gas into storage, then pipe it to your generators. Gold amalgam pumps are usually enough as most environments will cool it down before it reaches the pump, but I try to use steel if possible.

    You can chain generators together and set something up to handle the polluted water they output, but it's usually safe to build it away from the rest of the base as you shouldn't need to send anyone in there unless something goes wrong (unless you want to tune them up. Personally I don't bother as it's just using up dupe time and I can just make another generator).

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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