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[Oxygen Not Included] Breath of Fresh Air! (DLC in Early Access)

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  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited September 12
    Sweetles are also good for ranching as they lay an egg before starving so you don't need to feed them.

    That said sucrose is a good early rocket fuel, and I use grubfruit preserve for dupeonaut food since for the life of me I can't find sleetwheat.

    And I am pretty sure the sweetle (5%) and grubgrub (50%) growth buffs works on all plants and stacks with farmer's touch.

    edit: also grubgrubs turn Sulphur into mud, so possibly and alternative means of getting dirt and water.

    Mortious on
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  • RightfulSinRightfulSin Registered User regular
    edited September 12
    No atom suits as of yet. Need my farm for that up and running.

    I also have two full gas reservoirs of chlorine from removing all of it in my bases location. Finally finished relocating the stuff into my new base so now time to repurpose that space under it. I have a colder biome area to my North and I can see sleet wheat seeds there. They any good?

    I'm also in the process of relocating my main water reservoir from the abysslite lined ditch it was collected in into an actually planned contained location (to really avoid accidental contamination).

    On that note. Any quick way of moving large bodies of water (not down so making a hole in bottom not an option) other than many pumps and spouts dumping it? I got a lake's worth of clean, cold, germ free water. If not, I might just line it and make the storage room around it. Would insulation tiles be best?

    RightfulSin on
    "If nothing is impossible, than would it not be impossible to find something that you could not do?" - Me
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Sleet wheat is great, but the food and the seeds for it is the same thing, so if you dig it up it will rot, but planted sleet wheat, even if it's not growing, wont. So I would suggest if you're not going to be farming it to plant a couple of seeds in a pot and deactivate the farm plot to save the seeds for later, or else you can end up losing all of it.

    The nosh beans are similar.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
  • RightfulSinRightfulSin Registered User regular
    Mortious wrote: »
    Sleet wheat is great, but the food and the seeds for it is the same thing, so if you dig it up it will rot, but planted sleet wheat, even if it's not growing, wont. So I would suggest if you're not going to be farming it to plant a couple of seeds in a pot and deactivate the farm plot to save the seeds for later, or else you can end up losing all of it.

    The nosh beans are similar.

    Well it just says sleet wheat seeds when I scroll over it. That's also the plant? Seems... odd. Also they are currently in a cold biome that I am near but haven't broken into yet.

    "If nothing is impossible, than would it not be impossible to find something that you could not do?" - Me
  • Man in the MistsMan in the Mists Registered User regular
    Worth noting that the polluted water from one constantly-running natural gas generator will keep a pincha pepperplant fed with a bit extra, or will provide a little more than half of an arbor tree's water needs. The carbon dioxide will provide a slickster with 2/3 of its daily need.

  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Also I've been using this cheat sheet for farms, it's a bit old but still seems to be accurate:
    qgu0g7f8vrmt.png

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
    Sir Carcass
  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    edited September 13
    The plant buff name "Grubgrub rub" is A+, worth the price of DLC.

    However, after spending a bunch of time with sweetles, grubgrubs and grubfruit, I found it not worth it.

    Surf n turf as noted above is extremely efficient and the only resource you really need once you get it going is igneus rock. Sulfur is a little bit harder to come by. Oh, and hatch farming has the added bonus of energy in the form of coal.

    I also enjoy setting up sleetwheat and peppernut farming, so will usually have both surf n turf and pepperbread available to my dupes. And the resources needed for sleetwheat and peppernut are usually sustainable via geysers.

    Nova_C on
  • RichardRichard Registered User regular
    How forgiving is this game to play without trying to min-max base layouts etc? I find that for me playing these games following a strict plan takes a way a lot of the fun. Are my space women/men doomed?

  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Richard wrote: »
    How forgiving is this game to play without trying to min-max base layouts etc? I find that for me playing these games following a strict plan takes a way a lot of the fun. Are my space women/men doomed?

    Probably not? If you're casually playing or going for the quest goals the game gives you, you can afford to be pretty messy.
    The advice I see tends to be based on being self-sufficient, or at least as efficient as possible. On the other hand I've barely worried about it and still seem to be fine.

    I've just learned through failure. Like don't put all your pacu in one massive pool and add a feeder unless you want to get through all your algae really fast, don't put all your heat-producing stuff where the heat will move up and kill your farm, etc.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
    Richard
  • RightfulSinRightfulSin Registered User regular
    So I uncovered a dormant hydrogen vent last night. It's not super far away from my base. It is North and to the West of my base. So now I get to figure out what to do with that, the Natural gas and the cool steam vent. I'm a bit late but am finally growing reed for the fiber for the atom suits needed to analyze and then start setting up the machine and infrastructure to utilize them.

    Also, I believe I am near the West border of the map, I have hit a sheer wall of solid Neutonium, so that's interesting.

    "If nothing is impossible, than would it not be impossible to find something that you could not do?" - Me
  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    Honestly, having multiple source of powers from vents is usually nice if just because you can alternate between the two when one goes dormant and you blow through your stores. Hydrogen is a little annoying because it comes out hot, so if you’ve got a way to cool it off a bit it helps.

    Natural Gas is handy if just because it creates polluted water as well for use elsewhere. Plus having some gas around to run a Gas Range gets you access to some fun food.

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  • RightfulSinRightfulSin Registered User regular
    PMAvers wrote: »
    Honestly, having multiple source of powers from vents is usually nice if just because you can alternate between the two when one goes dormant and you blow through your stores. Hydrogen is a little annoying because it comes out hot, so if you’ve got a way to cool it off a bit it helps.

    Natural Gas is handy if just because it creates polluted water as well for use elsewhere. Plus having some gas around to run a Gas Range gets you access to some fun food.

    What would be best to cool down hydrogen from the vent? Still don't know how good it is. Need to get my suits so I can analyze it when I get home from work tonight.

    "If nothing is impossible, than would it not be impossible to find something that you could not do?" - Me
  • Man in the MistsMan in the Mists Registered User regular
    PMAvers wrote: »
    Honestly, having multiple source of powers from vents is usually nice if just because you can alternate between the two when one goes dormant and you blow through your stores. Hydrogen is a little annoying because it comes out hot, so if you’ve got a way to cool it off a bit it helps.

    Natural Gas is handy if just because it creates polluted water as well for use elsewhere. Plus having some gas around to run a Gas Range gets you access to some fun food.

    What would be best to cool down hydrogen from the vent? Still don't know how good it is. Need to get my suits so I can analyze it when I get home from work tonight.

    You could set up a water or crude oil tank and run radiant gas pipes through it. Have a steam turbine above the former for power and a way to pump out petroleum for the latter.

  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    If you've made it to any cold biomes and found some wheezeworts, they're a good low power way to cool things if you don't have aquatuners set up. Get them set up somewhere, pump liquid behind them in radiant pipes to cool it down, then take it to whatever you want to cool in insulated pipes to keep them cool, then normal/radiant pipes when you reach what you want cooled down.

    You generally want to use liquid instead of gas as it's got a higher mass so it can transfer more heat (I think). Early on polluted water is probably the best to use as it has a lower freezing point than water (you don't want it to freeze in the pipes).

    I haven't actually tried it, but liquid/gas pipes can transfer heat between them, right? So hot gas in a radiant pipe placed over cold liquid in a radiant pipe would transfer?

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • MvrckMvrck Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    If you've made it to any cold biomes and found some wheezeworts, they're a good low power way to cool things if you don't have aquatuners set up. Get them set up somewhere, pump liquid behind them in radiant pipes to cool it down, then take it to whatever you want to cool in insulated pipes to keep them cool, then normal/radiant pipes when you reach what you want cooled down.

    You generally want to use liquid instead of gas as it's got a higher mass so it can transfer more heat (I think). Early on polluted water is probably the best to use as it has a lower freezing point than water (you don't want it to freeze in the pipes).

    I haven't actually tried it, but liquid/gas pipes can transfer heat between them, right? So hot gas in a radiant pipe placed over cold liquid in a radiant pipe would transfer?

    All items in a tile space transfer/share heat. The transfer is limited by the rate of the least conductive material. Generally I don't think I've run into any situations where it's more useful/efficient to cool gasses in pipes though. Besides oxygen for your bases, gas temps rarely matter outside extreme edge cases like LOX, at which point you're already not using pipes because the state change will break them.

    I suppose if you're really cramped for space it might be more efficient to do a dual radiator sharing a few tiles, but generally I find cooling oxygen at the source is the easiest method (since in a lot of setups you can delete the heat used in cooling as part of the electrolyzation process).

    PwH4Ipj.jpg
  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    I mostly mentioned the heat because you probably don’t want to have a bunch of gas tanks holding steaming hot hydrogen near your base making things toasty like whoa. If the hydrogen vent, storage, and power production is isolated from your base it probably won’t be a problem.

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  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    This is how I setup mine, quick and dirty.
    swydvfgsapc2.png

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Do the zombiespore plants have any uses that mean I should go anywhere near them. The name isn't super encouraging, and I'm very happy to leave them walled off deep underground.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Do the zombiespore plants have any uses that mean I should go anywhere near them. The name isn't super encouraging, and I'm very happy to leave them walled off deep underground.

    They're very pretty and make good decorations. Except you have to keep them behind glass or in areas where your dupes will be using suits so...not terribly practical.

    CaptainPeacockMvrck
  • Man in the MistsMan in the Mists Registered User regular
    So, like a squeaky puft or molten slickster stable?

  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    I keep on waiting for a update where there’s a new food type that requires pollination or something by zombie spores to grow. They feel like more were going to be done with them but it got cut. I guess the idea is for them to make oily biomes dangerous to explore and exploit in ways other than the heat?

    I wish I could just round up all the seeds for them and jettison them into the sun.

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  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    edited September 17
    Oh hey, speaking of a update, a new SO one dropped today. Let's see what's new...
    The Radbolt Joint Plate is a solid tile that allows Radbolts to pass through one-way - just make sure your Duplicants aren’t standing right on top of it while a Radbolt is passing through!

    HOLY SHIT YES PLEASE! Getting radbolts to where you actually *want* them to be useful was always a massive pain in the ass. This should also make building the nuclear reactor more useful too, whenever you can actually pull off taming a Beeta swarm.
    The Automation Broadcast Sender and Receiver allow you to transmit an automation signal between worlds. The broadcaster has a limited range though, so a relay network may be necessary for longer range transmissions.

    SEE ABOVE?! Seriously, that's amazing, depending on how far it can go. Being able to turn on and off, say, pipes sending stuff through the transporters could be seriously useful. I feel like you're going to see some serious shenanigans with these.
    Rocket Tuning:
    Rocket ranges, speeds, and max height tuning have all been adjusted. All rockets have been made faster, and some have gotten range and height boosts. The range of the Radbolt engine has been reduced.

    I need to see the numbers, but that's seriously been needed. Some of the earlier rockets have had *way* too short of a range, and could only maybe *get* to somewhere interesting... but not back.
    The Party Line Phone is a new recreation building that Duplicants can use to talk to each other over long distances. Duplicants enjoy a small morale bonus if they use the phone by themselves, a bigger bonus if they have a chat with someone on another phone, and an even bigger bonus if at least one participant is on a different rocket or asteroid..

    Okay, this is just fun and cute. Should help out morale on the secondary colonies a lot, actually. ...actually, I missed that you can put these ON rockets! That's actually massive, depending on how much space they take up, since morale always tanks for dupes on long rocket rides.

    PMAvers on
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    Mvrck
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    I need to figure out radiation soon, so far I have been using wheezeworts as a cheap easy way to generate radbolts, but as my outposts become more automated I need a completely dupe free way of causing radiation to power my space gun.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    I'm not seeing the use of most rec buildings.
    Like, I built the beach chair thing, even set up a super powerful lamp so it'd be bright enough, and it led to one dupe spending half a day getting a tan, including the points when they were supposed to eat, crap and sleep.
    End result was a morale boost that got spent with them whining about all the needs they missed.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • Sir CarcassSir Carcass I have been shown the end of my world Round Rock, TXRegistered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    I'm not seeing the use of most rec buildings.
    Like, I built the beach chair thing, even set up a super powerful lamp so it'd be bright enough, and it led to one dupe spending half a day getting a tan, including the points when they were supposed to eat, crap and sleep.
    End result was a morale boost that got spent with them whining about all the needs they missed.

    Ultra-realism is rarely enjoyable in games.

    destroyah87
  • Man in the MistsMan in the Mists Registered User regular
    Has anyone tried feeding Pacu with crop seeds? How well does that work out once your farmers are skilled enough to harvest seeds on a fairly regular basis?

  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    I'm not seeing the use of most rec buildings.
    Like, I built the beach chair thing, even set up a super powerful lamp so it'd be bright enough, and it led to one dupe spending half a day getting a tan, including the points when they were supposed to eat, crap and sleep.
    End result was a morale boost that got spent with them whining about all the needs they missed.

    That one I've for sure set aside since they spend so much time in the chair.

    But the surfboard, the hot tub, the stereo and arcade are all super great.
    Air tunnel, too, if you're feeling fancy.

  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    It would be nice if instead of a recreation building it's a straight stress reducing building like the massage chair. If they get too stressed they have a time out.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
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  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    edited October 30
    In case anyone hasn't checked out this week's SO beta update, there's some interesting stuff in there in regards to clusters. There's a bunch of Experimental ones that are smaller starting asteroids but there's more nearby asteroids to explore so you have to spread out more. And some of the new asteroids are... weird... Like the Flipped one, where the lava core is on the top instead of the bottom.

    Couple of new Radiation buildings as well that are fueled by Uranium. There's a Manual Radbolt Generator that spits out small amounts of radbolts, but doesn't require any energy. It uses... well, manual dupe labor instead, which could definitely be worth it. There's also a Radiation Lamp that puts out a cone of radiation while fueled.

    Most importantly, there's a change where they greatly reduced the rate in which radbolts decay while traveling so you can send them much further. That is VERY welcome.

    Cosmic Research got renamed to Data Analysis Research, and it's actually a little different. Research in it is done in the Virtual Planetarium, and is done by processing items called Data Banks. The items can be generated by the Orbital Lab, but doing a bunch of exploration can spit them out as well. Satellites and inspect-able POI's will drop them, as well as when you study geysers and analyze artifacts.

    PMAvers on
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  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    Oh hey, that's handy. New SO update made a few new changes:

    Radiation sources are a *lot* stronger now. ...which also means they're a bit more hazardous to dupes. There's also a new piece of tech that lets you build a building that can store Radbolts until a source of automation says it's okay to fire. Handy!

    Also the Enclosed Telescope has returned as a upgraded version of the Telescope for exploring the starmap. You have to pump oxygen into it, but it lets the user... well, use it safely instead of having to sit in a vacuum. It looks to be able to actually explore out in a further radius than the older one too.

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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    Does anyone have any advice on how to push forward in this game? I've started it a bunch of times, but I keep running into engineering issues and giving up. I think the furthest problem I hadn't solved was proper base temperature management.

  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    That's a tricky one to answer. Have a plan is usually the way, but having a plan requires having played enough to know what to do

    Like for base temperature management... Early game tends to involve something quick and dirty to keep the base warm (I like cold maps!). Which is usually just a tiny bit of automation hooked up to a water heater and some piping filled with dupe piss.

    Later I build a proper steam cooled aquatuner setup(s) and use those.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    Temperature management consists of
    1) ignore it. Dupes... don't care until you hit like 60. Your crops will die, but you can just do a playthrough saying "I"m going to hatch ranches"
    2) run pipes through cold biomes, you can sink a lot of heat in there. I used to do this but it's a lot of work for little return and you have to make sure it's not freezing the water but still cooling enough. Using polluted water is better here
    3) use something like a cold slush geyser. If you have water at -10 and the same amount of steam at 98 then what you really have is water at 44, or just the slush alone can offset a bunch of metal refining
    4) heat deletion in some form. Whether that's the builtin nullifiers on the map, or steam turbines or a few other exotic methods. Technically the ice makers are already heat negative, you could just set up a bunch of them

  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    Cold slush geysers are a thing? That almost feels like cheating.

    Temperature redistribution is also a concern. Should I try to keep cool air actively flowing through my base, or is that too much effort for too little benefit?

  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    They're not as great as you hope, and have some issues... BUT they're a nice, steady source of renewable cold. Which is great.

    Air is just a crappy medium for heat transfer in this game. It has very little "Thermal mass" (Basically, every material can for lack of a better term "Store" X amount of heat inside it. This is different for different materials. Materials with low thermal mass change temperatures fast, while high thermal mass ones take a long time to budge. But there's also another stat that effects this, so.. uh, do your research. YOu can use this for various shennagins, such as the classic emergency cooling technique: Thermal plates made out of ice. They tend to melt very quickly, and dump cold water everywhere, but it really does chill stuff fast).

    Net upshot is that it can be worth cooling your air when it's coming from a SPOM as it tends to be very, very hot. But for actual, dedicated cooling, you're looking at moving liquids around your base via piping behind whereever you need to cool. I generally try and keep my bases at a comfy 23*c or so... but i also go heavy on Exosuit useage, so my "Base" is a very small self-contained living area, and basically everything that's not involving cooking or the ilk ends up with dupes doing tasks in suits. Which makes it a lot more practical to maintain this sort of approach.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    My approach is to just recreate radiators. Set up a pipe loop around the base, and feed it into an aquatuner to get it down to say, 15/20C.
    Then send it around the base, with temp sensors and valve later on to feed it into various areas as needed, and cut it off if it gets too cold.

    I try to reach the oil biome as soon as I can, as that opens up oil, petroleum and plastics. Once you can make a heat-deletion setup with an aquatuner and steam turbine, it just turns into a matter of scaling up.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
    Sir Carcass
  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    True I suppose there is also
    5) wall off your base with insulated tiles, then dump heat out there and who cares how hot it gets. Use a vacuum gapped airlock to keep heat out of the entrance

  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    Yeah, I think there's something to say about good practices in regards to where you put stuff in your base as well, and walling off areas with insulation so it doesn't affect things that are sensitive to temp.

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  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited November 30
    jothki wrote: »
    Does anyone have any advice on how to push forward in this game? I've started it a bunch of times, but I keep running into engineering issues and giving up. I think the furthest problem I hadn't solved was proper base temperature management.

    General rules for early temp management are basically as follows:

    -Keep your power production away from your farms.
    -Avoid breaching new geysers/vents that release hot gas/liquid until you can insulate them from the rest of your base.
    -If you are growing something that takes water (like Bristle Berries) make sure to keep track of the liquid temp as well, and for the love of god, don't use whatever you just used to run the metal refinery. (This is technically true for all forms of fertilization and irrigation, but (polluted) water is something you need to take special note of because of how much thermal energy it holds.)
    -If all else fails, Ice Maker and the Ice-E fan are usually good enough to keep an insulated room at a desired temperature. But only that room.

    Stick to those, and that should keep everything from going to hell until you can get advanced stuff like Aquatuners and the like, and (hopefully) before you have to use electrolyzers for oxygen.

    Electrolyzers can be a nasty surprise for a new player, not just because of the water they take (which can be a big deal if most of your food comes from farming) and having to deal with the hydrogen, but because the oxygen comes out at a whopping 70C, making just sticking one in the middle of the base (or simply piping the oxygen and calling it a day) a terrible idea. You might think that means pulling out Thermo Regulators, but that's arguably one of the least efficient ways (at least in terms of wattage) to cool the oxygen. A better way would be to create a heat exchanger chamber (though if you know what you are doing, the "chamber" can just be inside of a long floor or wall) with Tempshift plates of a thermally reactive material and radiant vents and pipes to exchange the heat with a liquid that is either being cooled or sent into a machine that will convert it into a material with a lower heat capacity (thereby deleting the heat). Ironically, this can include the very water you are pumping into the electrolyzer, as water has a significantly higher heat capacity than the oxygen and hydrogen being produced (in fact, the water can be as low as 20C and you would still be getting rid of thermal energy) but only if said water is starting at below the temprature you need the oxygen to be at.

    Finally, once you can produce plastic and steel, you can create the ultimate cooling system; A steam chamber. A steel aquatuner (you can technically get away with gold amalgam, but steel is more likely not to overheat and unless your getting plastic from glossy dreckos should be available at around the same time) with automation set up to not run if the input liquid is below the desired temp while still having extra piping to keep the liquid flowing (usually this means after connecting the input, you extend the pipe one tile down, place a bridge, and have the tuner's output connect to that bridge's output in as short a distance as possible) in a chamber with about 800-1000kg of water and as little gas as possible (ideally otherwise a vacuum ) and a steam turbine sitting on top with its liquid output going right back into the chamber. You then create a circuit with that pipping through all the areas you need cooled down (using radiant pipes when nessissary, otherwise normal for the circuit and insulated for the steam chamber) and then fill it all with Polluted water (which has a higher evaporation point and lower freezing point that regular water, so more room for error) usually by bridging a pipe from an outside source into the circuit. as long as there is the occasion bridge to direct the flow the circuit show keep moving in the right direction without need any pumps to move it, and the aquatuner will eventually heat the water it's sitting in to the point it becomes steam, which will power the turbine, which will produce power and delete a fair bit of heat before pumping it right back into the chamber to be heated again. Zombie Penguin can show you some super advanced setups to chill specfic areas to the exact temp you want, but a single circuit that simply bring the temp down to reasonable levels should work in 90% of cases.

    Foefaller on
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  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    Huh, neat, finally playing around with some of the mutant seeds you can get when exposing plants to radiation in SO. (I tossed a wheezewort in the middle of the greenhouse to try to help keep it cool.) Found a Specialized variant where it needs to be exposed to a little bit of radiation to grow, and the viable temperature band is tighter, but it produces +50% yield. It doesn't produce seeds of itself, though, so you still need Original versions of the plant if you want more.

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