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Posts

  • KafkaAUKafkaAU Western AustraliaRegistered User regular
    How do you manage your dupes taking a suit from one dock and returning it to another dock which has no space and just dropping it on the ground?

    I’ve got it set up so that the dupes can run all around the base, and only in/out through one dock but it can take ages for them to get back if they are far away.

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    Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    On the atmo suit checkpoint, there's a setting that's like "No Vacancy/Always" that sets it whether to allow them to exit if there's no space to put the suit.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    edited September 12
    I'm guessing conveyors can't carry suits around?

    (I know I'm exposing my ignorance with all these questions, but I'm only getting through this very slowly (like ten cycles a day before I quit out and go play Gears or something where I don't have to do all this annoying thinking). I'm literally just now learning how to manage heavy-watt wires and transformers.

    klemming on
    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Registered User regular
    edited September 12
    klemming wrote: »
    I'm guessing conveyors can't carry suits around?

    (I know I'm exposing my ignorance with all these questions, but I'm only getting through this very slowly (like ten cycles a day before I quit out and go play Gears or something where I don't have to do all this annoying thinking). I'm literally just now learning how to manage heavy-watt wires and transformers.

    I.. actually dont know! I think they should be able to. Also, dude! Dont worry about appearing igorant. We're here to have fun and enjoy the game, and sharing knowledge is part of that yeah? You're doing fine! This game is crazy tough to learn

    Meanwhile, excessive pipe spagehtti nearly subjected my base to an oxygen disaster. I turned on the Oxygen overlay to try and figure out why my mealwood kept complaining about atmosphere.

    Imagine my expression when my entire base was labled as "Barely breathable". Thank god for Diver's lungs, huh? Turns out the way my spom had been directing oxygen was uh... causing a few issues. This has since been rectified

    Things have been recovered.

    Also i gold plated my base, because why not. By which i mean nearly every walkable tile and anywhere that dosent need to be insulated is Gold Metal Tiles. The decor! the decor! Also the help moving heat around my base, keeping things from getting too toasty, as i still haven't setup any true cooling system. Instead i'm just shipping -30 degree oxygen into my base... which is still a pretty balmy 20-40 degrees depending on where you are.

    The Zombie Penguin on
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  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited September 12
    So, my first attempt at the second hardest asteroid type (which starts already too warm for mealwood, outside of a small and quick to disappear bubble around the printing pod) ended in starvation; took too long getting pip ranches up and used up all my potable water on mush fries to close the gap.

    Second was ended immediately when the seed I rolled had no pips in the starting biome whatsoever.

    So now it's the third, and so far it's doing rather well. Still having to make the occasional batch of mush fries to feed the 8 dupes I have, but I was able to rush for Ice makers while waiting for one of my starting dupes to unlock ranching and kept about 5 meal wood cool enough to extend the water I had until I found a slime biome for more water, and some mushrooms that are just fine with the warm temp my base is at. If my napkin math is right, should only need a few more of either them or pips and I should be food-secure and ready to increase my base pop. Probably start with a dedicated farmer to harvest the shrooms and trees, and a second rancher so I can expand to other critters.

    Also made it to the oil (which was right below a second forest biome...) This map should have a frozen core, so I'm going to going deeper eventually, but for now it's mining for lead and eventually making petroleum and plastic (which is going to big a bigger pain for me than normal, since my typical plan is to put my plastic manufacturing next the nearest AED with an auto sweeper so it can run pretty much forever as long as it gets petroleum, but I'm pretty sure this map type doesn't have natural cold biomes.) Then I can replace my hydrogen-based cooling system with a much more effective Steam Turbine.

    Also, does anyone know if sulfur is used for anything? The rust biomes in this map type, rather than being cold with ethanol, are warm with salt water and that stuff (no natural plants either, but you can sometimes get lucky a dig up a nosh bean). I'm suspecting there isn't, on the basis that the stuff has the same exact thermodynamic properties regardless of it's state, but I'd be thrilled if that isn't the case.

    Foefaller on
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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Registered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Also, does anyone know if sulfur is used for anything? The rust biomes in this map type, rather than being cold with ethanol, are warm with salt water and that stuff (no natural plants either, but you can sometimes get lucky a dig up a nosh bean). I'm suspecting there isn't, on the basis that the stuff has the same exact thermodynamic properties regardless of it's state, but I'd be thrilled if that isn't the case.

    AFAIK, It's not used for anything.

    Meanwhile, i took your advice on popping oil wells. The whole bottom of this map is a disaster, but at least an interesting one. There were some rather impressive stored farts at points too. And at one point 3000 (Yes, thousand) kg of Sour Gas packed into one tile.

    Still, i've got a stable 16 duplicant base up and running, circa cycle 371
    4CE106C4AEF202CD33011321682549F07D915174

    16 seems to be about the right amount for this size of base - 3 rancher/farmers manging the ranches and arbor trees, 4 builders/diggers, 4 suppliers, 4 operators, and a chef/decorator. The entire base is being fed off Surf'n'Turf and BBQ, with Frost Burgers in reserve for particularly needy duplicants. And by in reserve i mean i have over 200k of Frost burgers, and over 300k of BBQ. i'm not even farming lettuce or grain actively, this is just passive collection from the map. (Though given Soul Food penalizes atheltics, i'm not keen to feed all my dupes it - it's mainly kept for the Operators who are also being trained to be astronauts)

    Really need to expand and create a real industrial zone, and start doing stuff like converting the tons and tons and TONS of lumber i have into Ethanol. The game no longer shows me a T after the lumber number, i have that much built up. And you know. Actually install a steam turbine cooling thing.


    Also, important thing i learned re decor: While you'll be shown a "max 120 decor" in an area, that's not actually importnat. Duplicants get a decor buff based off the AVERAGE decor they experienced across the day. So creating Decor-bombs in areas with high duplicant traffic can really pay off. Hence part of the reason Gold Metal tiles are so good, as they give stupid amounts of decor without eating up too much space.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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    NotoriusBEN
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Also, does anyone know if sulfur is used for anything? The rust biomes in this map type, rather than being cold with ethanol, are warm with salt water and that stuff (no natural plants either, but you can sometimes get lucky a dig up a nosh bean). I'm suspecting there isn't, on the basis that the stuff has the same exact thermodynamic properties regardless of it's state, but I'd be thrilled if that isn't the case.

    AFAIK, It's not used for anything.

    Meanwhile, i took your advice on popping oil wells. The whole bottom of this map is a disaster, but at least an interesting one. There were some rather impressive stored farts at points too. And at one point 3000 (Yes, thousand) kg of Sour Gas packed into one tile.

    Still, i've got a stable 16 duplicant base up and running, circa cycle 371
    4CE106C4AEF202CD33011321682549F07D915174

    16 seems to be about the right amount for this size of base - 3 rancher/farmers manging the ranches and arbor trees, 4 builders/diggers, 4 suppliers, 4 operators, and a chef/decorator. The entire base is being fed off Surf'n'Turf and BBQ, with Frost Burgers in reserve for particularly needy duplicants. And by in reserve i mean i have over 200k of Frost burgers, and over 300k of BBQ. i'm not even farming lettuce or grain actively, this is just passive collection from the map. (Though given Soul Food penalizes atheltics, i'm not keen to feed all my dupes it - it's mainly kept for the Operators who are also being trained to be astronauts)

    Really need to expand and create a real industrial zone, and start doing stuff like converting the tons and tons and TONS of lumber i have into Ethanol. The game no longer shows me a T after the lumber number, i have that much built up. And you know. Actually install a steam turbine cooling thing.


    Also, important thing i learned re decor: While you'll be shown a "max 120 decor" in an area, that's not actually importnat. Duplicants get a decor buff based off the AVERAGE decor they experienced across the day. So creating Decor-bombs in areas with high duplicant traffic can really pay off. Hence part of the reason Gold Metal tiles are so good, as they give stupid amounts of decor without eating up too much space.

    Why don't your dupes have separate rooms? Once you have comfy beds you can used them to create bedrooms for a better morale bonus.

    Granted, IIRC it's just one more morale, but it's one less that you have to earn by frost burgers and dealing with the soul food effect.

    steam_sig.png
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Registered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Also, does anyone know if sulfur is used for anything? The rust biomes in this map type, rather than being cold with ethanol, are warm with salt water and that stuff (no natural plants either, but you can sometimes get lucky a dig up a nosh bean). I'm suspecting there isn't, on the basis that the stuff has the same exact thermodynamic properties regardless of it's state, but I'd be thrilled if that isn't the case.

    AFAIK, It's not used for anything.

    Meanwhile, i took your advice on popping oil wells. The whole bottom of this map is a disaster, but at least an interesting one. There were some rather impressive stored farts at points too. And at one point 3000 (Yes, thousand) kg of Sour Gas packed into one tile.

    Still, i've got a stable 16 duplicant base up and running, circa cycle 371
    4CE106C4AEF202CD33011321682549F07D915174

    16 seems to be about the right amount for this size of base - 3 rancher/farmers manging the ranches and arbor trees, 4 builders/diggers, 4 suppliers, 4 operators, and a chef/decorator. The entire base is being fed off Surf'n'Turf and BBQ, with Frost Burgers in reserve for particularly needy duplicants. And by in reserve i mean i have over 200k of Frost burgers, and over 300k of BBQ. i'm not even farming lettuce or grain actively, this is just passive collection from the map. (Though given Soul Food penalizes atheltics, i'm not keen to feed all my dupes it - it's mainly kept for the Operators who are also being trained to be astronauts)

    Really need to expand and create a real industrial zone, and start doing stuff like converting the tons and tons and TONS of lumber i have into Ethanol. The game no longer shows me a T after the lumber number, i have that much built up. And you know. Actually install a steam turbine cooling thing.


    Also, important thing i learned re decor: While you'll be shown a "max 120 decor" in an area, that's not actually importnat. Duplicants get a decor buff based off the AVERAGE decor they experienced across the day. So creating Decor-bombs in areas with high duplicant traffic can really pay off. Hence part of the reason Gold Metal tiles are so good, as they give stupid amounts of decor without eating up too much space.

    Why don't your dupes have separate rooms? Once you have comfy beds you can used them to create bedrooms for a better morale bonus.

    Granted, IIRC it's just one more morale, but it's one less that you have to earn by frost burgers and dealing with the soul food effect.

    Because you don't actually need to have seperate rooms to get the Bedroom morale bonus. Currently it just cares about they're being comfy beds in there, and a decor item. If/when that changes it'll be an easy fix.

    .... Also my dupes have 40-50 morale, there doing fine. Nature reserve is crazy good, as is decor bombing them hard

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • DaimarDaimar A Million Feet Tall of Awesome Registered User regular
    Does anyone know if it is possible to save the little video/slide show on the colony summary to a video or animated gif?

    steam_sig.png
    twitch.tv/kragaar
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Registered User regular
    Finally got my first ever steam turbine cooling loop setup! Though i'm having trouble finding what the ideal ratio of water to prime the room is - the first time around i had way too much and my aquatuner promptly melted itself. Still! Yay! My base's temperature issues are back under control!

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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    chrono_traveller
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Rule of thumb I've always heard is one tile's worth, so 1000kg?

    steam_sig.png
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    So, I finally have enough materials to make a SPOM, based on this design:
    alrjbcyt2g6h.jpg
    I'm down one Wheezewort, but that should be okay, right?
    Only the Wheezewort description says they need Phosphorite, and I don't see how it's getting in there on that design. Is this an old version that wouldn't work anymore? Could I just add an airlock to that side to clear it up?
    (escaping hydrogen wouldn't be a problem, it'd just go to the top of the base and get pumped back to where I want it anyway)

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    So, I finally have enough materials to make a SPOM, based on this design:
    alrjbcyt2g6h.jpg
    I'm down one Wheezewort, but that should be okay, right?
    Only the Wheezewort description says they need Phosphorite, and I don't see how it's getting in there on that design. Is this an old version that wouldn't work anymore? Could I just add an airlock to that side to clear it up?
    (escaping hydrogen wouldn't be a problem, it'd just go to the top of the base and get pumped back to where I want it anyway)

    Yeah, it's old. Wheeseworts used to require no upkeep and be a planter box plant ala bluff briar, but they changed that with the release version.

    The newer version would IIRC have the wheeseworts on farm tiles with an auto sweeper right below. Since the phosporite is technically applied to the tile, rather than the plant, the sweeper can do the fertilizing from below in a place where dupes can load a storage container for phosporite.

    steam_sig.png
  • chrono_travellerchrono_traveller Registered User regular
    So, umm, pretty dumb question on my part, (been playing this awhile, but haven't gotten far enough to deal with transportation till recently), can sweepers actually deliver materials as well as pick them up? If so, how do you make them do that? I have set sweepers to pick up fertilizer from the refiners, but my dupes still need to supply the dirt and slime to make it work.

    The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett

    George R. R. Martin is not your bitch. ~ Neil Gaiman
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    So, umm, pretty dumb question on my part, (been playing this awhile, but haven't gotten far enough to deal with transportation till recently), can sweepers actually deliver materials as well as pick them up? If so, how do you make them do that? I have set sweepers to pick up fertilizer from the refiners, but my dupes still need to supply the dirt and slime to make it work.

    It's generally done via priority and storage.

    If you have containers of dirt and slime set to priority, 4, lets say... and the refiner at priority 5, it should deliver from the storage to the refiner. Then a storage for the fertilizer at say, 6.

    steam_sig.png
    chrono_traveller
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    So, umm, pretty dumb question on my part, (been playing this awhile, but haven't gotten far enough to deal with transportation till recently), can sweepers actually deliver materials as well as pick them up? If so, how do you make them do that? I have set sweepers to pick up fertilizer from the refiners, but my dupes still need to supply the dirt and slime to make it work.

    Sweeper has to be in range of both a) the material and b) the tile the resource is actually applied to (usually the lowest center tile.)

    If the resource is being deliver by a receptacle or stored in a storage bin, then said storage needs to have a lower priority than the refinery. If it's something dropped to the ground by a chute then it should apply as soon as there is room for it.

    steam_sig.png
    chrono_traveller
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Registered User regular
    edited September 14
    @Foefaller You'll find it amusing to know my current base is now so efficient i have near 400,000kcal of Frost burger stored up. and 191,00 kcal of Surf'n'turf (Which is my dupe's main diet).

    Please note i am not even actively farming lettuce or sleet weet - the gains on this are entirely passive from the map. and this is with 16 dupes chowing down. (Although only the operators are allowed Frost Burgers, everyone else gets Surf'n'Turf).

    Also, because i enjoy making you all look at my pretty, pretty base: Here it is in all it's glory currently, with multiple overlays.
    7AE7C4FF5BCAECDD822D35E3A4190DCCBCA941222DB09910D40DC388FCF5E273BC47C7FC92C6F3E9310DD9CEB7E41295D0C550562E7C3A2812252CBEC17F1F689B9A35BD7A8328ABC2486B1464C517E88E0814912494EBD7172E6F5CED11DD21BB5CAEC73366BAAB986F2EFCDE8428EFDFADD01AA99F829B01C8620F131197B91BE9FDD525B509DA0525FBABA42A98DF1B80B3EDBB8C8EB0F123052541EADCB721D9F4690FC2946BAB6A2BBE7168A438D4D9120E
    Some cool stuff going on: SPOM is pumping chilled oxygen into the base. Conyvors are setup in such a way the vast majority of dropped items are collected and routed into the Quantum Storage Lock (Read: that tiny tile of water off to the left of the storagebase). Everything else is sorted, keeping eggs where they belong, coal to the coal plant, etcera.

    Cooling loop is up and running and doing it's job - well enough i've uninsulated the power plants to let the heat equalised through the base. They're actually cooler than chunks of the base as you can see! Probably going to expand the cooling loop, and have a dedicated power-plant loop, and a dedicated base cooling loop. Not to mention actually figuring out how to create a temperature feed for the aquatuner, so i can ensure that my base is being kept at a comfortable 21 degrees. (I should be able to do this using a liquid temp sensor, a liquid shut off, and setting the temp sensor to 35 so it routes 35 degree oil into the aquatuner, but not anything else, right?)

    The Base is decor-bomb'd to the nines, and the vast majority of it has positive decor, which is great. Pacu farming is running so well i have 3 pacu tanks - a breeding tank (The central reservoir), the drop tank (Bottom of the base, catches any incubated pacu who are not delivered to the breeding tank/any pacu i print off from the pod), and a tiny one tile tank in the egg room, which is just where pacu eggs that aren't being incubated hatch. This all passive pacu farming as well, other than the egg incubating - My game's bugged and is not using fish releases correctly, so i cannot keep the tank to a single pacu and feed. So they're just all wild instead, and who cares?

    On that note, all the incubators are setup and automated so they're super power efficient. 3 ranchers are handling all the ranches and the farming so well i occasionally get idle notifications from them. Probably time to figure out ranching other stuff! Maybe dense pufts to start stockpiling Oxylite?

    Next real goals are setting up a proper industrial refining zone, tweaking the cooling setup so it'll not end up freezing my base... and then? Then i think it's time to look towards SPAAAAAACE

    The Zombie Penguin on
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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    I can't believe it took me 90 cycles to figure out I can use clock sensors to just make my own instant response switches.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    So it appears that a chlorine room does not kill germs in a pipe.

    In the past this wasn't a big problem, since I can over come that by using more space to run several liquid containers and some manual dupe labour.

    However, in this lastest base I do not have a lot of dupes or space, so I need a small setup that automatically detects that all the germs are gone before decanting. This will also include the output from my bathroom, so regular inputs of germy water will happen.

    Any setups that seem like it'll work?

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
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  • DaimarDaimar A Million Feet Tall of Awesome Registered User regular
    Mortious wrote: »
    So it appears that a chlorine room does not kill germs in a pipe.

    In the past this wasn't a big problem, since I can over come that by using more space to run several liquid containers and some manual dupe labour.

    However, in this lastest base I do not have a lot of dupes or space, so I need a small setup that automatically detects that all the germs are gone before decanting. This will also include the output from my bathroom, so regular inputs of germy water will happen.

    Any setups that seem like it'll work?

    Set it up so that you prime the system with pure water first, that will fill the pipe leaving everything else in the reservoir to have their germs killed.

    The setup I've been using:

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  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    edited September 15
    get a chlorine room, and put in 2 water tanks (or air tanks). The chlorine will kill all the germs rather quickly
    get time sensors set up on the pipes.

    Day 1 you dump all water into tank A, release the water in tank B about 3hours into the following day
    Day 2 you dump all water into tank B, release the water in tank A about 3hours into the following day
    repeat

    or a 3tank setup to be absolutely sure (even though germs die super quick in chlorine)
    Day 1 dump into tank A, release tank B, tank C is sitting
    Day 2 dump into tank B, release tank C, tank A is sitting
    Day 3 dump into tank C, release tank A, tank B is sitting

    NotoriusBEN on
    a4irovn5uqjp.png
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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    What the hell is this someone managed to launch a rocket in 41 cycles:

    Speedrunners are insane.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
    KafkaAUchrono_traveller
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Registered User regular
    get a chlorine room, and put in 2 water tanks (or air tanks). The chlorine will kill all the germs rather quickly
    get time sensors set up on the pipes.

    Day 1 you dump all water into tank A, release the water in tank B about 3hours into the following day
    Day 2 you dump all water into tank B, release the water in tank A about 3hours into the following day
    repeat

    or a 3tank setup to be absolutely sure (even though germs die super quick in chlorine)
    Day 1 dump into tank A, release tank B, tank C is sitting
    Day 2 dump into tank B, release tank C, tank A is sitting
    Day 3 dump into tank C, release tank A, tank B is sitting

    Another option is the spinner design - Use a germ sensor that links to a liquid shutoff. If germ count is above 0, the valve is disabled and the water is instead sent back to the start of the cycle.

    Honestly though, outside of water getting into your watercooler or your expresso machine, food poisoning germs arent any big deal in liquids - Zombie Spores would be an issue i imagine, maybe? I'm using a spinner to clean a polluted vent's output, but that's only because it's used to help feed my SPOM and i have no idea if you can aeroslize Food Poisoning germs like that. Though i know they can get airborne for sure (And even then, you can use stuff like Buddy Buds to help coutneract things).

    Honestly, germs in general seem kinda... toothless currently. I have more issues with Heatstroke and Hypothermia as sicknesses than anything from germs. (and that's just because there's been some issues in base layout)

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  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited September 16
    get a chlorine room, and put in 2 water tanks (or air tanks). The chlorine will kill all the germs rather quickly
    get time sensors set up on the pipes.

    Day 1 you dump all water into tank A, release the water in tank B about 3hours into the following day
    Day 2 you dump all water into tank B, release the water in tank A about 3hours into the following day
    repeat

    or a 3tank setup to be absolutely sure (even though germs die super quick in chlorine)
    Day 1 dump into tank A, release tank B, tank C is sitting
    Day 2 dump into tank B, release tank C, tank A is sitting
    Day 3 dump into tank C, release tank A, tank B is sitting

    Just make sure you flush the system with germ free water first time, because no matter how close the shutoff are to the input/output of the tanks there will always be some water in pipes.

    Should only need it the very first time though, as long as the pipe into the reservoir is closed when it is draining and the shutoff occurs before it gets completely drained; any germs that get in are evenly distributed in all the water already inside. So the 20kg with 10,000 germs total stuck in the pipes will make the next 10kg that comes out have...20 germs, which is below the "dying off" limit and will almost certainly be germ free before it gets to the cooking/espresso water. This of course assumes you are running it through a sieve to get ordinary water first and not P.water where food poisoning multiplies.
    Honestly, germs in general seem kinda... toothless currently. I have more issues with Heatstroke and Hypothermia as sicknesses than anything from germs. (and that's just because there's been some issues in base layout)

    Feels kinda like an either-or thing for me, to be honest. Either you're really careful about exposure and cleanliness so your dupes never get sick, or you make a stockpile of medicine with a sick bay to insta-cure them when they get sick; doing one kinda negates the need of doing the other.

    Latter is usually how I deal with slimelung: rather than worry about making sure to limit the number of dupes or get super careful about P. oxygen, I just build a sick bay, skill up someone to run it, and make 4-5 medicine packs that can be applied immediately when they wake up with slimelung.

    Foefaller on
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  • DissociaterDissociater Registered User regular
    So I've been enjoying this game, but I think for my tastes I find it a bit too finicky and cluttered by mid-game. Like by the time I've unlocked maybe the 3rd tier of the techs, my space is so cluttered with all sorts of shit, and it takes ages for my dupes to get around, and so much of their time is spent doing basic maintenance (ie cooking, running algae to various oxygen thingies, etc.). But then also because the game is presented vertically (vs. isometric like in rimworld for example), in order to dig towards the resources you need, you're also having to build ladders everywhere, and the places you're digging have no oxygen so your dupes have to run in and out to get some breath. It really bogs down.

    Early game is super fun while you're setting up the basics, but I've felt I've needed to restart each game around the same point because I've made some error around the placement of rooms when I've unlocked a new tech, or I've run out of basic resources and it takes too long to dig up the new stuff if you haven't planned ahead for it. Basically the game hasn't really been new player friendly (although I did get the game shortly after early access, I haven't played much since then), because it kind of assumes you know what you need to succeed, but I've had to learn by trial and error, and by midgame I find it kind of exhausting. And part of this is because the early game concerns never really fade away. I'm still finding myself struggling to find the basic, early-game, necessities like food and water and oxygen in the midgame when I should be more worried about midgame stuff. I haven't found this to be the case in Rimworld, for example.

    As some quick examples. Sometimes I'll find random water or polluted water spills in the middle of my base and I have no idea where it came from. I have all these critters running around since they appear to offer some benefit, but I spent a bit of time unlocking the ranching tech only to find out I can't make use of it until I have plastics. And I can't have plastics until I have oil, and I have no idea where to find oil. You kind of have to micromanage cooking and feeding in the sense that if you set your guys to make infinite food, it makes too much, and if you don't do that, you run out of food too fast and have to periodically go back and set someone back to cooking. So I try doing things like just set them to make infinite liceloafs, which should regulate itself based on how much lice I grow, but then I constantly get error messages that I don't have enough resources to cook. But then on top of all this, I find the various systems a bit more complicated than necessary to be fun. Specifically power management. You kind of don't find out until mid game that you need to manage circuit load, and rewiring an entire base to compensate is painful. But then you probably also have to do that for gas and liquids as well.

    I think balance for new players would be helped if they reduced the amount of resources you need in terms of water and algae useage, but then slowed down tech research. Right now I can unlock so much tech before I can reasonably use it, and then I find myself struggling to figure out where to place the stuff. I mean I guess the game does a good job of being a puzzle, but too often I've found myself responding to problems or a crisis, but don't actually have room to build what I need to solve the crisis. I mean I do like games that can spiral out of control when you've planned wrong (like in banished or frostpunk), but I feel like in those games it's more obvious about what you did wrong and can adjust accordingly.

    Having said all that, I do think I'm making progress in terms of planning appropriately from game to game, but I just find the game throws so many systems at you all kind of at the same time. So you have this sort of linear progression in terms of difficulty in the early game, and then by mid-game it just skyrockets abruptly. I guess what I'm saying is that I think I'd enjoy the game more if the early-game issues became self-sufficient before moving on to mid-game concerns. Like while I'm figuring out how to move gas from this space to that space, to use it to fuel this system so that I can power this other element, I don't also want to still be worrying about food and oxygen in the oldest parts of my base.

    I'm going to keep at it for a bit though.

    FairchildBlazeFire
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Question about priorities: if I set the Egg Cracker to crack an egg type forever (priority 5), and there's an empty Incubator that wants the same egg type (priority 7), they're going to the incubators first, right?
    I'm trying to set up my ranches so they don't get cramped with eggs and stop laying.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • RendRend Registered User regular
    Yeah ONI is a pretty unique game in that its loop takes place over many, many restarted colonies.
    the places you're digging have no oxygen so your dupes have to run in and out to get some breath. It really bogs down.
    ...running algae to various oxygen thingies

    It sounds like you're not using electrolyzers. Two electrolyzers can outptu enough oxygen for more than 10 duplicants (more than 12 I'm pretty sure) with no issues. You just have to construct a room for them to operate in that can handle both the oxygen and the hydrogen. Also, be aware they generate heat and the air is a little hot, so at some point you'll need to deal with that.

    Hydrogen can go into a hydrogen generator to ease coal consumption, which is nice.

    The bonus to this is that since you'll make more oxygen than you need, after your base is filled up you can tap off of your ventilation ducts to bring some of that air down into strategically placed air rooms in your exploration shafts, giving your duplicants a place to stop and breathe so they don't have to run all the way back up to your base to get a lungful of air.
    I spent a bit of time unlocking the ranching tech only to find out I can't make use of it until I have plastics.

    Some creatures can only be caught with a plastic trap, but a lot of creatures can just be caught by hand. Hatches and dreckos come to mind, hatches being the kind of canonical first thing you want since they can turn raw minerals into coal by eating it, and coal is pretty good for power for a pretty long time.
    You kind of have to micromanage cooking and feeding in the sense that if you set your guys to make infinite food, it makes too much, and if you don't do that, you run out of food too fast and have to periodically go back and set someone back to cooking.
    water and algae useage

    One thing I might recommend is planting mealwood for your food. It provides -1 morale to eat, but morale is VERY easy to have a lot of early with just a few rooms (barracks, washroom, mess hall, etc) and mealwood requires only dirt and that's it. No water, very little time spent by duplicants maintaining the plants, etc. It's a perfect food source for MANY cycles, and will take a lot of load off of both your water and time usage. You don't have to cook it into liceloaf, just let them eat the meal lice.

    rewiring an entire base to compensate is painful
    Yeah it absolutely can be, but you touched on this: oxygen not included is a game that rewards you for failing to do something, then doing the really enjoyable early game with the thought of "okay I know how I failed last time, this time I'll do it right."

    Then you fail at something else, and restart again vowing to do that OTHER thing right.
    ONI at its heart is about players expanding too quickly and without appropriate planning (sometimes because of hubris, most often because of ignorance) and then realizing how much they have fucked up and restarting to hopefully fuck up less.

    Satsumomo
  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    So I've been enjoying this game, but I think for my tastes I find it a bit too finicky and cluttered by mid-game. Like by the time I've unlocked maybe the 3rd tier of the techs, my space is so cluttered with all sorts of shit, and it takes ages for my dupes to get around, and so much of their time is spent doing basic maintenance (ie cooking, running algae to various oxygen thingies, etc.). But then also because the game is presented vertically (vs. isometric like in rimworld for example), in order to dig towards the resources you need, you're also having to build ladders everywhere, and the places you're digging have no oxygen so your dupes have to run in and out to get some breath. It really bogs down.

    Early game is super fun while you're setting up the basics, but I've felt I've needed to restart each game around the same point because I've made some error around the placement of rooms when I've unlocked a new tech, or I've run out of basic resources and it takes too long to dig up the new stuff if you haven't planned ahead for it. Basically the game hasn't really been new player friendly (although I did get the game shortly after early access, I haven't played much since then), because it kind of assumes you know what you need to succeed, but I've had to learn by trial and error, and by midgame I find it kind of exhausting. And part of this is because the early game concerns never really fade away. I'm still finding myself struggling to find the basic, early-game, necessities like food and water and oxygen in the midgame when I should be more worried about midgame stuff. I haven't found this to be the case in Rimworld, for example.

    As some quick examples. Sometimes I'll find random water or polluted water spills in the middle of my base and I have no idea where it came from. I have all these critters running around since they appear to offer some benefit, but I spent a bit of time unlocking the ranching tech only to find out I can't make use of it until I have plastics. And I can't have plastics until I have oil, and I have no idea where to find oil. You kind of have to micromanage cooking and feeding in the sense that if you set your guys to make infinite food, it makes too much, and if you don't do that, you run out of food too fast and have to periodically go back and set someone back to cooking. So I try doing things like just set them to make infinite liceloafs, which should regulate itself based on how much lice I grow, but then I constantly get error messages that I don't have enough resources to cook. But then on top of all this, I find the various systems a bit more complicated than necessary to be fun. Specifically power management. You kind of don't find out until mid game that you need to manage circuit load, and rewiring an entire base to compensate is painful. But then you probably also have to do that for gas and liquids as well.

    I think balance for new players would be helped if they reduced the amount of resources you need in terms of water and algae useage, but then slowed down tech research. Right now I can unlock so much tech before I can reasonably use it, and then I find myself struggling to figure out where to place the stuff. I mean I guess the game does a good job of being a puzzle, but too often I've found myself responding to problems or a crisis, but don't actually have room to build what I need to solve the crisis. I mean I do like games that can spiral out of control when you've planned wrong (like in banished or frostpunk), but I feel like in those games it's more obvious about what you did wrong and can adjust accordingly.

    Having said all that, I do think I'm making progress in terms of planning appropriately from game to game, but I just find the game throws so many systems at you all kind of at the same time. So you have this sort of linear progression in terms of difficulty in the early game, and then by mid-game it just skyrockets abruptly. I guess what I'm saying is that I think I'd enjoy the game more if the early-game issues became self-sufficient before moving on to mid-game concerns. Like while I'm figuring out how to move gas from this space to that space, to use it to fuel this system so that I can power this other element, I don't also want to still be worrying about food and oxygen in the oldest parts of my base.

    I'm going to keep at it for a bit though.

    That's a great list, I felt the same way when starting out. ONI's biggest weaknesses, by far, are the lack of information at start and the amount of micro-management needed to keep all of your Base's systems running. These two items are purposeful, however, to force you to learn by hard, harsh experience what works and what doesn't. The good news is that most of these problems fix themselves over time as you slowly figure out what the heck is going on, so I'd recommend staying at the Easy setting for a while until you get some of the basics down.

    For example, I, too, wired everything with the basic cheap wiring at start, only to run into a Base full of sparking wires once the load increased; now I research Hi-Watt Wire as soon as I can and upgrade to it as my regular power carrier early on. I've also learned that you don't need that many Algae dispensers running, just one or two at start and then another to support whichever dig you are working on at the moment. Convert to Electrolyzers once you have a source of cool water for them and the Algae dispensers are not needed.

    Oil, in the basic world, is always down. Down, down, down, near the bottom, so just keep digging down and eventually you will find it.

  • DissociaterDissociater Registered User regular
    Good advice, thanks guys. Yeah things like the hi-watt wire is a good example. It's not clear to me when and why I need it. And until it is, I don't plan for it's use. I also didn't know I can't run it through wall tiles the way I can with regular wires, which means I either would have to destroy large parts of my base to accommodate the new wiring requirements, or start a new game. I find that more frustrating than fun.

    Good to know about electrolyzers. I started using one in my most recent base. But I don't know how much water I'll need to plan for to keep 2 running indefinitely. Should I be building a clean and polluted water reservoir? What do I do if water starts running low? Should I be pumping in new water from other water sources into my reservoir, or should I just be putting new water pumps and running them into my pipe network as I come across them?

    I'm also reading on the wiki that 4 mealwood plants will support 1 dupe. Is that cooked or uncooked? Should I be cooking? If not when is it worth switching to cooking?

    How do you guys plan new mineshafts? Yesterday I ran a ladder maybe 100 tiles deep and it took like 10+ cycles to dig that far because my dupes were so busy keeping the rest of the base running.

    I guess what I need to find out is if there's a way to set up my early based (food, water, oxygen, filtration) in such a way that if I decide to walk away from the computer for 2 hours will I come back to a dead base or an alive one? In more practical terms, can I set up my base to be self-sufficient such that I can start doing things like planning expansions, rooms, mineshafts, etc, without having to still micromanage survival? My expectation is that yes, there is, but I haven't been able to work it out yet.

    Fairchild
  • DaimarDaimar A Million Feet Tall of Awesome Registered User regular
    edited September 17
    *snip*

    I'm going to keep at it for a bit though.

    I know that feel and I'm kinda neck deep in the game now. For me, I find it really helpful to see what more experienced people are doing so I found a really good tutorial on Youtube by a guy who walks you through the starting steps of a base after I messed up the first couple. Yeah, mystery and joy of exploration is gone, but I get to build a little watch and see the parts whir away which is more satisfying to me than cratering multiple colonies because I don't know what slime lung/food poisoning/morale is or how to deal with it.

    Episode 1 of the series sponsored by Klei. There's enough videos to get you to mid-game as he hasn't really gotten to advanced endgame items in his series yet.

    edit: for better or worse you really get the most out of your base by tearing stuff out and re-arranging it when you get new tech or better materials. It doesn't take that long once you get into it and get skilled up dupes who can build/walk faster than fresh ones

    Daimar on
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  • RendRend Registered User regular
    -Yes, a reservoir for polluted and clean water.
    -My general strategy is to explore a bit around the base and find wherever polluted water seems most concentrated. Dig shafts such that water falls into the bottom-most of those big and little pools in the swamp biomes, and then pump in water from there to your polluted reservoir. I also tend to add a liquid shutoff connected to a sensor so that water only goes into the liquid output when there's space for it. Having too many liquid pumps is a drain on power so I generally try to consolidate downward in this way.

    -10 cycles for 100 tiles is actually not terrible in my experience, though you can speed it up by building fire poles and making sure the shaft is oxygenated with ventilation ducts and outputs.

    -Five mealwood plants per dupe enclosed in insulated tile, two electrolyzers, a decent reservoir of clean water and polluted water and a large reservoir of external polluted water to replenish your supply. 2-3 full stables of hatches for sustainable coal production, and I think you're okay. Early on, anyway. The more coal you need for power, the more hatches you need to make coal from sandstone and igneous rock, but the mealwood and electrolyzers are basically ready made and good for a long-ass time.

    If you can find a natural gas geyser to fuel a natural gas generator, that's awesome. Those are sick af. Also, do not underestimate the power of using an operator to tune up your generators using a power control station. 50% power efficiency from all of your fuel sources is nothing to sneeze at.

    Also, switch to cooking when you run into the need for good morale, or when you have an excess of stuff you need to cook, like extra critters or eggs. Don't cook junk like meal lice, only cook good stuff like barbecue or omelettes.

  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    which means I either would have to destroy large parts of my base to accommodate the new wiring requirements, or start a new game. I find that more frustrating than fun.

    Please note that there is a specific tile in the Power section, I forget what it's called, which can contain Hi-Watt Wire. So always build your rooms with a space for the Hi-Watt Wire to enter and leave or build in an extra floor or ceiling tile which will be replaced by the Fuse tile (I think that's what it is called).

    The Pro ONI people all seem to create one giant Clean Water and one giant Polluted Water reservoir, but I don't like doing that because putting all of my Clean Water in one basket makes it too easy to lose it through mistaken contamination. I prefer to have 3-4 small Clean Water reservoirs. Yes, your first priority should be finding a renewable source of Clean Water via a Cool Steam or Salt Water geyser or something similar, note that these may require some processing, such as converting Salt Water to Clean Water, and will almost always generate water at a very high temperature which you will need to find some way to cool down.

    I make all of my mineshafts three tiles across, because 3 tiles is the magic number for good air flow, and I'm careful to plan the route so that I don't accidentally hit a pocket of Slimelung or flood the shaft. You will always hit unbreathable air, so trying to avoid that is futile, which is why running power down the mineshaft as you go is wise so that you can place an Algae machine at intervals (you will likely only need to have one of them running at one time) to keep your Minions alive as they dig. I'd recommend fiddling with Minion priorities so that you have one or two dedicated Diggers to keep the shaft moving.

  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    Yeah it absolutely can be, but you touched on this: oxygen not included is a game that rewards you for failing to do something, then doing the really enjoyable early game with the thought of "okay I know how I failed last time, this time I'll do it right."

    That's very well put.

  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    A good base in ONI is all about anticipating the next thing to be a problem, and solving it before it becomes one.
    Cleaning a flood of polluted water is way harder than setting up ways to collect, isolate and clean it as it's generated, and so on.

    The good thing is that deconstructing gives you all the materials back, so when it's time to rebuild your power network, you haven't lost anything besides time. It encourages you to build in steps, rather than just plan out your ultimate base first and end up running two lights via a transformer and heavi-network because you know you'll need them later.

    My approaches have been two or three coal power networks as needed (which tend to become a nest of wires and bridges to try and balance things), until I'm ready to move to renewable power (usually after I switch to electrolysers, or find a natural gas vent). Then I build a heavi cable loop on the outside of the base, and set up transformers on every floor.

    Plastics are a barrier, and if you find yourself running up against the need for them, that's probably the game telling you it's time to start digging down to find oil. That said, there's a lot you don't actually need them for.
    I keep feeling like I don't have what I need for atmo-suits, but I'm pretty sure I'm wrong.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • DaimarDaimar A Million Feet Tall of Awesome Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Plastics are a barrier, and if you find yourself running up against the need for them, that's probably the game telling you it's time to start digging down to find oil. That said, there's a lot you don't actually need them for.

    Or it's time to start farming glossy dreckos. It's amazing how much they put out once you design their pens and just forget about them. I probably went overboard with them in my current game, but I've got 9 of them on the go and over 20 tonnes of plastic in storage after converting to plastic ladders, comfy beds and a small pneumatic tube run.

    Just be careful the first time you crack open an oil pocket since it will very likely be pressurized and will give you a nasty surprise if you're not quick or prepared.

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  • RendRend Registered User regular
    in my latest run i got a couple prints of slickster larva eggs and was like
    "Well I don't have plastics yet to transport slicksters, but I can design a stable for them and just hatch them inside"

    Now I have six slicksters which mix to fix my shit sitch for plastics.

  • BlazeFireBlazeFire Registered User regular
    --snip--
    I'm going to keep at it for a bit though.

    I'm with you. I also have a hang-up where looking at a tutorial or youtube vid of some super-optimized solution takes the fun out for me.

  • JebusUDJebusUD Adventure! Candy IslandRegistered User regular
    Rend wrote: »
    in my latest run i got a couple prints of slickster larva eggs and was like
    "Well I don't have plastics yet to transport slicksters, but I can design a stable for them and just hatch them inside"

    Now I have six slicksters which mix to fix my shit sitch for plastics.

    Slicksters eat a lot of CO2. You might have trouble keeping 6 alive.

    And I won, so you lose,
    Guess it always comes down to.
    Satsumomo
  • RendRend Registered User regular
    JebusUD wrote: »
    Rend wrote: »
    in my latest run i got a couple prints of slickster larva eggs and was like
    "Well I don't have plastics yet to transport slicksters, but I can design a stable for them and just hatch them inside"

    Now I have six slicksters which mix to fix my shit sitch for plastics.

    Slicksters eat a lot of CO2. You might have trouble keeping 6 alive.

    Yeah, I uncovered a Co2 geyser but it might not be enough. Right now I'm pumping all my into tanks, including the Co2 from 3 coal generators and a natural gas generator, but we'll see how long it lasts. Wiki says they eat 20kg per day but as long as one is alive I should be ok

  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited September 17
    Good advice, thanks guys. Yeah things like the hi-watt wire is a good example. It's not clear to me when and why I need it. And until it is, I don't plan for it's use. I also didn't know I can't run it through wall tiles the way I can with regular wires, which means I either would have to destroy large parts of my base to accommodate the new wiring requirements, or start a new game. I find that more frustrating than fun.

    Good to know about electrolyzers. I started using one in my most recent base. But I don't know how much water I'll need to plan for to keep 2 running indefinitely. Should I be building a clean and polluted water reservoir? What do I do if water starts running low? Should I be pumping in new water from other water sources into my reservoir, or should I just be putting new water pumps and running them into my pipe network as I come across them?

    I'm also reading on the wiki that 4 mealwood plants will support 1 dupe. Is that cooked or uncooked? Should I be cooking? If not when is it worth switching to cooking?

    How do you guys plan new mineshafts? Yesterday I ran a ladder maybe 100 tiles deep and it took like 10+ cycles to dig that far because my dupes were so busy keeping the rest of the base running.

    I guess what I need to find out is if there's a way to set up my early based (food, water, oxygen, filtration) in such a way that if I decide to walk away from the computer for 2 hours will I come back to a dead base or an alive one? In more practical terms, can I set up my base to be self-sufficient such that I can start doing things like planning expansions, rooms, mineshafts, etc, without having to still micromanage survival? My expectation is that yes, there is, but I haven't been able to work it out yet.

    Heavy watt wiring is for when you have more than 1k watt of things you need powered at once. When you unlock it you should also get transformers, which will let you
    connect a normal wiring system to a heavy watt system without overloading anything in the former, regardless of how much power is running through the later. Generally, you replace the normal wiring around your generators with heavy watt, then connect them to however many transformers you need to distribute power. This lets you have a central power supply that can be easily expanded on as needed without having to worry about overloads or building on-the-spot power that dupes might not get to as often as you need them to. Eventually you will also unlock conductive wiring, which can take greater loads and, in the case of normal wiring, has no decor penalties.

    It's important to note with electrolyzers that they take a "lot" of water. Usually you stick to algae (in the normal starting biome) or oxyferns (in the forest biome; they take water too, but not as much per kg of oxygen as electrolyzers) until you can secure a larger/more sustainable source of water, usually starting with pumping any polluted water you find in slime biomes through a sieve and ending with a steam vent or water geyser. You absolutely want your P. water and regular water stored separately, because they are used in different applications and putting the wrong type of water into something will damage it (one exception is the water sieve, so you don't need to switch it out if you are pumping clean water in. Salt water or Brine on the other hand...) but as for germs, only water that need to be food poisoning free is the water the dupes use for cooking and breaks, and the only water that needs to be slimelung free is the water used for electrilyzers, anything else will either kill off the germs in the process or has zero effect. This does include toiletries, so with a sieve you can absolutely set up a closed system for your bathrooms that never needs any more water after the initial input (in fact, you'll need an escape valve to let water out, because dupes using lavatories produce more total water each time they go than what gets used, though this isnt very much compared to most things that use water)

    4 mealwood per dupe is raw. Cooked only requires 3, but also takes water, while growing mealwood and eating it without cooking only takes dirt, and you have to be stuck in the starting biome for a really long time before you run out of dirt. Cooking food from farming is usually held off untill you get water secured, because all domestically grown plant-based food other than raw mealwood will require it (if not in cooking then in irrigation; You might be able to get a lot of food from wild plants and avoid irrigating, but usually not a sustainable amount until after you're done worrying about water) though meat and eggs should always be cooked, and if you're on an asteroid with a rust biome you're not going to need water for oxygen anyway.

    So there are two ways to speed up digging up or down, from what I've been able to deduce. One is to set up dig orders on both sides of the shaft, with extra ladder tiles every 3 tiles going down or 4 going up. Otherwise, the dupes will build it by having only one go to dig and/or build a single ladder title, and then head back to base because another dupe nowhere close has claimed the job for the next tile. This can be fixed by enabling proximity in the priorities page, and/or setting it so only one dupe does digging and/or building before anything else, but making the shaft larger than 1 tile wide will also allow more than one dupe to work on it, while the extra ladder tiles to the side gives them something to stand on to dig out and build more than one ladder tile at once which (when going down) doesn't block their work. The other option, which requires no ladders, is a "Pendenko machine" layout, where you do a dig layout sort of like this:

    OXOX
    XXXX
    XOXO
    XXXX
    OXOX

    ...and so on, with the O's being the tiles you don't dig. This will create an array of blocks your dupes are able to climb and dig out without have to build any ladders when doing it, though it's very cumbersome for them and eventually something you'll want to replace with a ladder.

    As for sustainability with just the starting biome... not really? Well, the normal biome is not perpetually sustainable; eventually you'll run out of algae or water for oxygen and everyone suffocates. The Forest one *is* sustainable though, with ranching, clever use of pips to plant "wild" arbor trees and oxyfern where you want them in nice neat rows, and using petroleum generators running on ethanol made from lumber to produce P. Water... but can only really support 4 or 5 dupes (even if you don't plan on making it self-sustaining long run) or you'll go beyond what O2 you can reasonably produce and, again, run out of oxygen and everyone suffocates. (Fitting for a game called Oxygen Not Included) Eventually you need to breach other biomes for more algae, more water, or rust to either keep everyone breathing or supporting the O2 needs of more dupes... and thanks to RNG there isn't a 100% reliable rule of thumb as to when that comes. It is possible to make it sustainable after that at pretty much any size, however, once you find a geyser or vent with an output you can eventually turn into a significant source of clean water and/or oxygen, plus an acceptable way to deal with heat.

    Final piece of advice is this: everything can be deconstructed for 100% refund. Your layout when you first start your base will not be the same one you have when you are launching rockets into space, and trying to plan out how that final base would look from the very first cycle is madness. Don't be afraid to deconstruct entire rooms- including the walls, floor and ceiling- and replace it with something that would work better for what you need. Once you've found your renewable water/oxygen source, you pretty much have all the time in the world to get everything just right.

    Foefaller on
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