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  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited October 3
    Foefaller wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    It sounds like I got slicksters way too early, I don't have the resources for either of those.

    Well, they're both based on lumber. All you really need to get lumber production going is grab some pip eggs and arbor acorns. Shove both in a room and eventually you'll end up with more acorns and more lumber.

    Mathwise you need 7.2 trees to feed four distillers running full tilt which in turn is enough to run one petrolem generator. The big issue I have with all this is you usually then eat a ton of the power it would make just to run carbon skimmers to handle everything. On top of what the ethanol distillers etc take.

    But if you can figure out a way to sanely combo it with slickster ranching, ideally, molten slickster ranching, you can turn all of that c02 output into even more power for basically free, while saving you power on the skimmers. I haven't crunched the math on that though, but still.

    If you're worried about power, Wood Burners beat ethanol-based petroleum generators once you factor in the skimmers. Pretty much need twice as many skimmers for the whole ethanol setup vs wood, with the generator only being about 4% more power per kg of wood.

    However, The real reason you create and burn ethanol, IMO, is for the p. Water and dirt. I almost feel like it's mandatory to run an ethanol based generator to get the P. Dirt to ranch pokeshells, and if you're feeding that P.dirt to sage hatches, then the extra power you get from the coal will cover the extra carbon skimmers you need for how often everything runs about 2.5 times over, even if you are using domesticated arbor trees and need some of the dirt as fertilizer.

    Less worried about the power, more thinking about ways to reclaim stuff. Personally, i've kinda scrapped using Sage Hatches - i might try ranching pokeshells this run, given this is a run i'm trying to build industry and space, so lime is going to be a priority, but we'll see? As said, i think the way to go with Ehthanol if you're trying to get power is just to feed it to Molten Slicksters. I'll have to take a crack at figuring that out at some point, it sounds like a fun project.

    I'm curious, what are people's starting game plans?

    Right now, on rime my current stratergy:

    Starting dupes: 7 Digging, Mole Hands - my dedicated digger. 3 Consturction, 3 Digging, Molehands - Early game, she Digs. Later on she becomes a dedicated builder. Still tinkering with this - I'm thinkign about just going 7 Construction, Molehands. 7 Science, Quick Learner. Researcher for plowing the research tree. Eventually she's turned into an operator for industry, power, etc.

    Super early, i recruit a 7 husbandry dupe, who acts as the dogsbody for the colony. One of my goals is to bumrush hatch ranching asap, and get a pair of 8 hatch ranches up. That lets me feed the colony with eggs and smoothly switch to BBQ often by cycle 60 or so. After that, it's a proper dogsbody (Ideally, athletics 7, becuase they gonna be doing a lot of running), and then a chef who also gets cross trained in decorating. After that i usually hold off on recruiting anyone until i've got stable food production up, then i start recruiting more builders, diggers and dogsbodys in roughly even quantieis - and then eventually i'll recruit a couple more operators. Somewhere in here getting a Drecko ranch up and running for early plastics happens, but that's a more midterm goal.

    I've honestly just entirely given up on farming mealwood or whatever - there's SO MUCH buried food between muckroot and hexalent food that it's just so easy to sustain a colony on what you dig up until you get eggs farming up and running. And once you have that up and running it's a small hop skip and jump to get BBQ production. Though i find it's important to have shipping up for that, just to make your egg production go nuts.

    Eventually when i get atmosuits done, i tend to make sure i've got a gym installed, and ban any new dupes from doing anything until they're trained to have 3 ranks in research then Exosuit training. One - easy to cross train them into astronauts if i want. But the results give them a CRAZY amount of athletics and operating skill, which makes them very useful in general.

    I kinda want to figure out what i'd need to do with automation to make sure gym dupes are always gyming, but i can actually harness the power they make - they generate a LOT over the day.

    My starting dupes are usually a digger/builder, a rancher, and a researcher. Next dupes I usually get as good ones appear are a farmer, supply runner, operator/metatronics, a digger who can dig 100% so the first one can build primary and dig when there's no building to be done, eventually a dedicated cook, second operator, second supplier, tidy/repair jockey, and nightshift builder, digger, rancher and cook. I want a rancher ready as soon as I get ranching research, which is why they're part of the starting batch, though in my case most of my early ranching for resources rather than food, ala coal/plastic/lime/arbor seeds, at least until I find some Shove Voles, plus I usually grow my dupe pop too fast for muckroot and wild mealwood to last me until ranching would make enough food.

    This "Critters for goods, not food" is especially true in my current Badlands base, since their are no slime biomes, so all my reed fiber has to come from ordinary dreckos. Plus, this map saw fit to split up the starting biome into about 5 or 6 pieces with the "badlands" separating it, so there was no way of getting all the food I needed just from muckroot.

    As for making dupes run the wheels forever while still using all the power they generate, that's easy: You have a wheel, a light, and a transformer. Transformer feeds into the main heavy-watt circuit, with the light on the same circuit as the wheel. Since there is a transformer between the wheel and the rest of the generators and their batteries, the dupes will judge the need to run based on that circuit, rather than the entire grid, and since there is no battery on that circuit, they'll insist on having to run the wheel all day long to keep the light running. Then you just keep the whole thing in a room with a door that only the dupes you want training can access, and that should do it.

    The other possibility is to set the "when to activate" level for the wheels at 100%, and set the smart batteries that automate your normal generators to 98%, that way the batteries are never technically "full" enough for dupes to stop running the wheels, nor get topped off and kick your dupes off them.

    Foefaller on
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  • DaimarDaimar A Million Feet Tall of Awesome Registered User regular
    For my first 3 dupes I've been using a +7 scientist with quick learning, a +7 digger with mole hands and a +7 creative with interior decorating. The decorator comes first because you can produce a good enough statue after you unlock the level 2 skill to kick a mess hall into a great hall rather than waiting for them to skill up over time. I typically don't get into ranching quick enough to make that one of my first.

    I did get a mod to allow you to customize your dupe skills at start so that I don't have to reroll hundreds of times just to get skills I want.

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    twitch.tv/kragaar
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Daimar wrote: »
    For my first 3 dupes I've been using a +7 scientist with quick learning, a +7 digger with mole hands and a +7 creative with interior decorating. The decorator comes first because you can produce a good enough statue after you unlock the level 2 skill to kick a mess hall into a great hall rather than waiting for them to skill up over time. I typically don't get into ranching quick enough to make that one of my first.

    I did get a mod to allow you to customize your dupe skills at start so that I don't have to reroll hundreds of times just to get skills I want.

    You can also do it with a flower pot holding a bluff briar.

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    KafkaAU
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    So I have an interesting problem that I don't quite know how to solve.

    I am building a salt water boiler because of my obsession with cooling water by heating it up instead, which will output hot water and hot salt.

    My plan for the salt is then to crush it into hot sand and hot table salt. Hot table salt is not a problem because the weight is negligible, and the hot sand will then be turned into glass.

    So I need to design a setup that prevents the dupes from delivering cold salt/sand to the stations and removing hot sand to be used in other parts of the base as filters. Because they will definitely skip using the nice cool sand and instead truck in 100ºC+ sand into my base.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »

    My starting dupes are usually a digger/builder, a rancher, and a researcher. Next dupes I usually get as good ones appear are a farmer, supply runner, operator/metatronics, a digger who can dig 100% so the first one can build primary and dig when there's no building to be done, eventually a dedicated cook, second operator, second supplier, tidy/repair jockey, and nightshift builder, digger, rancher and cook. I want a rancher ready as soon as I get ranching research, which is why they're part of the starting batch, though in my case most of my early ranching for resources rather than food, ala coal/plastic/lime/arbor seeds, at least until I find some Shove Voles, plus I usually grow my dupe pop too fast for muckroot and wild mealwood to last me until ranching would make enough food.

    This "Critters for goods, not food" is especially true in my current Badlands base, since their are no slime biomes, so all my reed fiber has to come from ordinary dreckos. Plus, this map saw fit to split up the starting biome into about 5 or 6 pieces with the "badlands" separating it, so there was no way of getting all the food I needed just from muckroot.

    So i'm confused here - You're talking like critters for food is mutually exclusives with critters for resources. At least, that's how i'm parsing it. And that it just does not map with my experiences. Like i'm farming hatches for coal early on. Fuel to keep my power grid going, and building up supplies for refined carbon and ceramic later on. And 16 hatches hooked up with some pretty simple automation keeps the ranches healthy while resulting in a veritable BBQ volcano. and before that's setup, an egg volcano.

    Also, @Mortious autosweepers and careful use of doors should do the trick? Also having a pit filled with super chilled sand to have your dupes drop things into might work, as due to averaging that'll chill the hot sand when you drop it it in.

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  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    It'll take some doing, since both the crusher and glass forge are dupe operated.

    It's not just the hot material getting out, it's also cool materials getting in when I don't want them to.

    So autosweepers are a must, and I might have to decrease the priority of the stations to give the sweepers a chance to load up the machine before the dupes do, and then some sort of way to tell when I run out of materials to disable the machines.

    Possibly a weight plate? Smart storage would be easier probably, but I since I will be running 6 aquatuners constantly, I should start being more energy conscious.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Mortious wrote: »
    It'll take some doing, since both the crusher and glass forge are dupe operated.

    It's not just the hot material getting out, it's also cool materials getting in when I don't want them to.

    So autosweepers are a must, and I might have to decrease the priority of the stations to give the sweepers a chance to load up the machine before the dupes do, and then some sort of way to tell when I run out of materials to disable the machines.

    Possibly a weight plate? Smart storage would be easier probably, but I since I will be running 6 aquatuners constantly, I should start being more energy conscious.

    My thought would be to have a central room that's dupe inacessible all your sand is sent to. Then have autosweepers in there that can load stuff onto conveyors and use temp sensors + conveyor shutoffs to sort the sand between cool and hot. Hot stuff is sent to storage in front of the glass forge, so dueps can instnatly grab it, cool stuff is sent to storage elsewhere. Should work?

    Honestly though, i'm unsure why you're worrying this much about hot material getting into the base - a good cooling system should handle things fine, and hot materials don't shed that much heat. Usually. Thoguh actually, conveyors can screw with that, so hmm. Eh, worse case, dedicated cooling loop and tempshift plates right where the hot material is created should let you suck the heat out of it and turn it into power. Gotta love the wonderful bullshit that is steam turbines

    Re: Number of aquatuners - Have you seen icebox designs? I learned (Much to my annoyance) that one aquatuner can chill an absoloute ton of stuff via icebox designs, rather than having one aquatuner per loop of liquid.

    Francis John has a pretty good video on temp managment here:

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    It's mostly just efficiency. Seperating the hot stuff to be used in a way to delete the heat just saves that extra bit of cooling, and as such power.

    Same reason I setup my metal refineries to reclaim the heat energy and cool the coolant, even though the area I built them in is currently -30°C because I have a big cooling setup there.

    I could just run the salt water through a desalinator and cool the entire output (which I am currently doing to the subsurface ocean), but having it as a geyser presents the oppertunity to try and be clever with it.

    Watching something like my metal refinery or iron volcano setup run, and not just delete the heat but also power my base a bit, makes me happy.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited October 4
    Foefaller wrote: »

    My starting dupes are usually a digger/builder, a rancher, and a researcher. Next dupes I usually get as good ones appear are a farmer, supply runner, operator/metatronics, a digger who can dig 100% so the first one can build primary and dig when there's no building to be done, eventually a dedicated cook, second operator, second supplier, tidy/repair jockey, and nightshift builder, digger, rancher and cook. I want a rancher ready as soon as I get ranching research, which is why they're part of the starting batch, though in my case most of my early ranching for resources rather than food, ala coal/plastic/lime/arbor seeds, at least until I find some Shove Voles, plus I usually grow my dupe pop too fast for muckroot and wild mealwood to last me until ranching would make enough food.

    This "Critters for goods, not food" is especially true in my current Badlands base, since their are no slime biomes, so all my reed fiber has to come from ordinary dreckos. Plus, this map saw fit to split up the starting biome into about 5 or 6 pieces with the "badlands" separating it, so there was no way of getting all the food I needed just from muckroot.

    So i'm confused here - You're talking like critters for food is mutually exclusives with critters for resources. At least, that's how i'm parsing it. And that it just does not map with my experiences. Like i'm farming hatches for coal early on. Fuel to keep my power grid going, and building up supplies for refined carbon and ceramic later on. And 16 hatches hooked up with some pretty simple automation keeps the ranches healthy while resulting in a veritable BBQ volcano. and before that's setup, an egg volcano.

    Also, Mortious autosweepers and careful use of doors should do the trick? Also having a pit filled with super chilled sand to have your dupes drop things into might work, as due to averaging that'll chill the hot sand when you drop it it in.

    It isn't mutually exclusive when you are doing just hatches or pips, but Ranches 2 and 3 for me are pretty much always Dreckos and either Dense Pufts or Pokeshells. Dreckos ranches usually can't be filled without it occupying one rancher by itself, while Pufts and especially Pokeshells are a terrible source of kcal.

    It's also a perception of things I probably picked up from playing a lot of EA. When critter ranch first became a thing, the main appeal *was* the non-food resources you could get from them. Part of this was because IIRC mealwood at the time required no resources to grow, even domesticated, and another part was because the way the skill system worked back then, any dupe that was going to ranch *had* to farm to ever unlock the ability to ranch, but arguably the biggest part was because bases were a lot harder to keep perpetually sustainable back then (little to no geysers, and no surface or space travel) and having the tools to ranch pufts for slime to grow mushrooms forever, or breeding all the coal-making hatches you'd ever want, plastic that left more petrol for p.water gushing petroleum generators and phosphorite poop to make fertilizer (back when fertilizer synthesizers made enough nat gas byproduct for 2-3 to power a single generator for a net gain) was much more appealing than the omelettes which at the time were "only" as good as fried mushrooms and BBQ that took pincha peppers and slowed dupes with Soul Food.

    Finally, and I think I've mentioned this before, I also value dupe labor enough that I'm willing to take a less-than-efficient method if it means they can spend more time doing things that I find more important. I could sustain about 14 dupes with a pair of ranchers doing nothing but grooming hatches all cycle... or I can feed 20 with one rancher spending half their day with one ranch of hatches and a farmer spend less than half their day fertilizing a Bristle blossom farm. With almost 50% more food at half the labor, for me it's no contest.

    Foefaller on
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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »

    Finally, and I think I've mentioned this before, I also value dupe labor enough that I'm willing to take a less-than-efficient method if it means they can spend more time doing things that I find more important. I could sustain about 14 dupes with a pair of ranchers doing nothing but grooming hatches all cycle... or I can feed 20 with one rancher spending half their day with one ranch of hatches and a farmer spend less than half their day fertilizing a Bristle blossom farm. With almost 50% more food at half the labor, for me it's no contest.

    I wonder if part of it is that i play on No Sweat, and so that's distorting things a bit due to the reduced calories- because my single rancher def spends so little time caring for the hatches that they do other stuff. But just 16 hatches seem to be a calorie volcano. Though i will note i'm also passive-farming pacu, which means i can very easily produce massive quanities of surf'n'turf (The way i handle it, i ban my dupes from eating Meat, Pacu Fillets or Cooked fish - BBQ and Surf'N'Turf for higher need dupes are fair game).

    I mean, mathing that out - each ranched hatch gives me a minimum of 64k calories over it's 100 cycle life span. Or it'll feed a dupe for 64 cycles off it's life span. So realistically, you need 3 hatches per 2 dupes (very Slightly more, actually)

    Still. For how easy they are to set up, Hatch ranches are crazy. In the long run, wild Vole farming obviously is going to take over for meat production, but that's a late game thing you do when you have infinite burning hot sand raining form the sky and you need to do something with it.

    Passive farming pacu is also kinda stupid good, honestly. Those things are stupid productive for the minimal effort of "Ensure your water tank is pacu accessible from your printing pod". (They're almost impossible to overcrowd, so they always make an egg, and at 25 cycle life span, you get the meat from them pretty fast passively)

    Kinda wondering about scrapping even doing dreckos currently, and just going straight to full on plastic production via petroleum. Would probably let me kick in a third ranch for stone hatches, whcih means more coal and yet more egg volcano. Not that that's exactly necessary though. Would free up rancher time to ranch something else, but I've no idea what I'd ranch. Probably pokeshells, actually...

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »

    Finally, and I think I've mentioned this before, I also value dupe labor enough that I'm willing to take a less-than-efficient method if it means they can spend more time doing things that I find more important. I could sustain about 14 dupes with a pair of ranchers doing nothing but grooming hatches all cycle... or I can feed 20 with one rancher spending half their day with one ranch of hatches and a farmer spend less than half their day fertilizing a Bristle blossom farm. With almost 50% more food at half the labor, for me it's no contest.

    I wonder if part of it is that i play on No Sweat, and so that's distorting things a bit due to the reduced calories- because my single rancher def spends so little time caring for the hatches that they do other stuff. But just 16 hatches seem to be a calorie volcano. Though i will note i'm also passive-farming pacu, which means i can very easily produce massive quanities of surf'n'turf (The way i handle it, i ban my dupes from eating Meat, Pacu Fillets or Cooked fish - BBQ and Surf'N'Turf for higher need dupes are fair game).

    I mean, mathing that out - each ranched hatch gives me a minimum of 64k calories over it's 100 cycle life span. Or it'll feed a dupe for 64 cycles off it's life span. So realistically, you need 3 hatches per 2 dupes (very Slightly more, actually)

    Still. For how easy they are to set up, Hatch ranches are crazy. In the long run, wild Vole farming obviously is going to take over for meat production, but that's a late game thing you do when you have infinite burning hot sand raining form the sky and you need to do something with it.

    Passive farming pacu is also kinda stupid good, honestly. Those things are stupid productive for the minimal effort of "Ensure your water tank is pacu accessible from your printing pod". (They're almost impossible to overcrowd, so they always make an egg, and at 25 cycle life span, you get the meat from them pretty fast passively)

    Kinda wondering about scrapping even doing dreckos currently, and just going straight to full on plastic production via petroleum. Would probably let me kick in a third ranch for stone hatches, whcih means more coal and yet more egg volcano. Not that that's exactly necessary though. Would free up rancher time to ranch something else, but I've no idea what I'd ranch. Probably pokeshells, actually...

    Yeah, I'm playing on Survival. Dupes only need 500kcal a cycle to survive in No Sweat, so a ranched hatch isn't feed a dupe 64 days per lifespan; it's feeding them for 128.

    When every four hatches are feeding five dupes, I bet hatch ranches feel like infinite food. :D

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  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Foefaller wrote: »

    Finally, and I think I've mentioned this before, I also value dupe labor enough that I'm willing to take a less-than-efficient method if it means they can spend more time doing things that I find more important. I could sustain about 14 dupes with a pair of ranchers doing nothing but grooming hatches all cycle... or I can feed 20 with one rancher spending half their day with one ranch of hatches and a farmer spend less than half their day fertilizing a Bristle blossom farm. With almost 50% more food at half the labor, for me it's no contest.

    I wonder if part of it is that i play on No Sweat, and so that's distorting things a bit due to the reduced calories- because my single rancher def spends so little time caring for the hatches that they do other stuff. But just 16 hatches seem to be a calorie volcano. Though i will note i'm also passive-farming pacu, which means i can very easily produce massive quanities of surf'n'turf (The way i handle it, i ban my dupes from eating Meat, Pacu Fillets or Cooked fish - BBQ and Surf'N'Turf for higher need dupes are fair game).

    I mean, mathing that out - each ranched hatch gives me a minimum of 64k calories over it's 100 cycle life span. Or it'll feed a dupe for 64 cycles off it's life span. So realistically, you need 3 hatches per 2 dupes (very Slightly more, actually)

    Still. For how easy they are to set up, Hatch ranches are crazy. In the long run, wild Vole farming obviously is going to take over for meat production, but that's a late game thing you do when you have infinite burning hot sand raining form the sky and you need to do something with it.

    Passive farming pacu is also kinda stupid good, honestly. Those things are stupid productive for the minimal effort of "Ensure your water tank is pacu accessible from your printing pod". (They're almost impossible to overcrowd, so they always make an egg, and at 25 cycle life span, you get the meat from them pretty fast passively)

    Kinda wondering about scrapping even doing dreckos currently, and just going straight to full on plastic production via petroleum. Would probably let me kick in a third ranch for stone hatches, whcih means more coal and yet more egg volcano. Not that that's exactly necessary though. Would free up rancher time to ranch something else, but I've no idea what I'd ranch. Probably pokeshells, actually...

    Yeah, I'm playing on Survival. Dupes only need 500kcal a cycle to survive in No Sweat, so a ranched hatch isn't feed a dupe 64 days per lifespan; it's feeding them for 128.

    When every four hatches are feeding five dupes, I bet hatch ranches feel like infinite food. :D

    I'm actually thinking I might be making things too easy with no sweat mode, because just doing a little reading - the parts of the game that are harder: Temperature management, oxygen, resource generation, are unchanged.

    Although maybe morale might kill me without it being chill? I find food to be such an easy thing that I don't even really concern myself with it beyond just setting up the chain.

    On second thought - Before I set that chain up, I may run out of initial food. Hmmmm.........

  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Foefaller wrote: »

    Finally, and I think I've mentioned this before, I also value dupe labor enough that I'm willing to take a less-than-efficient method if it means they can spend more time doing things that I find more important. I could sustain about 14 dupes with a pair of ranchers doing nothing but grooming hatches all cycle... or I can feed 20 with one rancher spending half their day with one ranch of hatches and a farmer spend less than half their day fertilizing a Bristle blossom farm. With almost 50% more food at half the labor, for me it's no contest.

    I wonder if part of it is that i play on No Sweat, and so that's distorting things a bit due to the reduced calories- because my single rancher def spends so little time caring for the hatches that they do other stuff. But just 16 hatches seem to be a calorie volcano. Though i will note i'm also passive-farming pacu, which means i can very easily produce massive quanities of surf'n'turf (The way i handle it, i ban my dupes from eating Meat, Pacu Fillets or Cooked fish - BBQ and Surf'N'Turf for higher need dupes are fair game).

    I mean, mathing that out - each ranched hatch gives me a minimum of 64k calories over it's 100 cycle life span. Or it'll feed a dupe for 64 cycles off it's life span. So realistically, you need 3 hatches per 2 dupes (very Slightly more, actually)

    Still. For how easy they are to set up, Hatch ranches are crazy. In the long run, wild Vole farming obviously is going to take over for meat production, but that's a late game thing you do when you have infinite burning hot sand raining form the sky and you need to do something with it.

    Passive farming pacu is also kinda stupid good, honestly. Those things are stupid productive for the minimal effort of "Ensure your water tank is pacu accessible from your printing pod". (They're almost impossible to overcrowd, so they always make an egg, and at 25 cycle life span, you get the meat from them pretty fast passively)

    Kinda wondering about scrapping even doing dreckos currently, and just going straight to full on plastic production via petroleum. Would probably let me kick in a third ranch for stone hatches, whcih means more coal and yet more egg volcano. Not that that's exactly necessary though. Would free up rancher time to ranch something else, but I've no idea what I'd ranch. Probably pokeshells, actually...

    Yeah, I'm playing on Survival. Dupes only need 500kcal a cycle to survive in No Sweat, so a ranched hatch isn't feed a dupe 64 days per lifespan; it's feeding them for 128.

    When every four hatches are feeding five dupes, I bet hatch ranches feel like infinite food. :D

    I'm actually thinking I might be making things too easy with no sweat mode, because just doing a little reading - the parts of the game that are harder: Temperature management, oxygen, resource generation, are unchanged.

    Although maybe morale might kill me without it being chill? I find food to be such an easy thing that I don't even really concern myself with it beyond just setting up the chain.

    On second thought - Before I set that chain up, I may run out of initial food. Hmmmm.........

    It's still pretty easy to get all the morale you need to specialize dupes as you want in Survival, though you might not be able to create omni-disciplinary Super Dupes until you have almost all the possible morale bonuses you can get.

    As for food, even if you take new dupes at every opportunity, most maps will have enough muckroot and soon-to-be-harvest wild mealwood to extend the starting nutrient bars till at least cycle 7 or so, and once you have it down to pat you can start placing planter boxes at every open space by the start of cycle 3.

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  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    getting lime for steel is extremely annoying. been trying to ranch hatches but oof it's so slow, 14 hatches atm and it takes forever for enough to run the rock crusher, and you need to do it twice for enough lime to make steel.

    idk how i'd even expand it, don't really have space to expand and my ranching dupe is almost there full time.

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    KafkaAU
  • KafkaAUKafkaAU Western AustraliaRegistered User regular
    Think you need to ranch poke shells for a solid lime supply.

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    Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
  • ToyDToyD Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    getting lime for steel is extremely annoying. been trying to ranch hatches but oof it's so slow, 14 hatches atm and it takes forever for enough to run the rock crusher, and you need to do it twice for enough lime to make steel.

    idk how i'd even expand it, don't really have space to expand and my ranching dupe is almost there full time.

    If you can crack open an oil biome, the fossils you mine can be turned to lime also.

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  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    getting lime for steel is extremely annoying. been trying to ranch hatches but oof it's so slow, 14 hatches atm and it takes forever for enough to run the rock crusher, and you need to do it twice for enough lime to make steel.

    idk how i'd even expand it, don't really have space to expand and my ranching dupe is almost there full time.

    The only thing that lays enough eggs to support a industrial scale steel production are tamed and regularly fed pacus, but that takes way too much algae to sustain for very long. The other ways mentioned (pokeshells and mining fossil) are better.

    steam_sig.png
  • DaimarDaimar A Million Feet Tall of Awesome Registered User regular
    I haven't tried seriously ranching them, but tame shine bugs pop out an egg in under two days so they can be a good source of food and lime.

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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Daimar wrote: »
    I haven't tried seriously ranching them, but tame shine bugs pop out an egg in under two days so they can be a good source of food and lime.

    If you want to get extra nutty, you can create a shine bug reactor. Turns out if you engage in some clever shenanigans, you can cram enough shine bugs into a 1x1 square to easily power multiple solar panels. Free power at the price of animal cruelty!

    Another thing with eggs is off you're doing any serious ranching, setting up automated incubators helps a lot. Incubators only need to be powered on long enough for your rancher to come hug the egg. Plus you'll hatch eggs that much faster.

    Or you could just crack them, but why waste free bbq?

    My personal rule of thumb is one incubator per ranch. That's usually enough to keep a ranch topped up perfectly, at least for hatches. If you want I can post a screenshot of the setup and the automation for it.

    Meanwhile, I'm happy - after some trial and error that included accidentally making things out of lead, I have a very nice steam vent tamer hooked up. Happily gives me a bunch of free geothermal power, the hot water it creates gets fed into my spom, and some extra automation feeds in extra water as needed to turn the rest of that tasty thermal mass into more power.

    Untreated to this, dupes are banned from the oxygen box. Last I checked it had something like 20,000kg of oxygen per tile.

    That's not a typo. This is what happens when you hook up a gas compressor to your spoms overflow, and your spom makes 3kg/s (i.e enough to sustain 30 dupes...I only have 15).

    Guess it'll be useful when I get around to making liquid oxygen!


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  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    I really need to get around to taming my cool steam geyser and it's neighbour the salt water geyser.

    So far I've setup an insulated reservoir for my water geyser, tamed 3 iron volcanos and 1 gold volcano.

    And I think I need to relook at power rooms. Originally they were a detriment because dupes would tune up unused petroleum generators, however they are no longer unused and my petroleum refineries are overheating due to their constant use. So something to decrease that will help. Especially now that I am planning on adding a 5th or 6th aquatuner.

    Then I need to move my ranches out of my main base and optimize them, which means I can finally expand my roster over 16 dupes.

    And then finally start my space program.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Mortious wrote: »
    I really need to get around to taming my cool steam geyser and it's neighbour the salt water geyser.

    So far I've setup an insulated reservoir for my water geyser, tamed 3 iron volcanos and 1 gold volcano.

    And I think I need to relook at power rooms. Originally they were a detriment because dupes would tune up unused petroleum generators, however they are no longer unused and my petroleum refineries are overheating due to their constant use. So something to decrease that will help. Especially now that I am planning on adding a 5th or 6th aquatuner.

    Then I need to move my ranches out of my main base and optimize them, which means I can finally expand my roster over 16 dupes.

    And then finally start my space program.

    For me, "taming" a cool Steam geyser has pretty much always meant "setting up the plumbing so it's the water used for the electrolyzer whenever it's erupting."

    As long as it's below 70C when it reaches there it won't raise the output temp from the electrolyzers at all, and even if it is, water has a higher thermal capacity than oxygen + hydrogen, so it comes out as a net heat loss anyway.

    steam_sig.png
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Mortious wrote: »
    I really need to get around to taming my cool steam geyser and it's neighbour the salt water geyser.

    So far I've setup an insulated reservoir for my water geyser, tamed 3 iron volcanos and 1 gold volcano.

    And I think I need to relook at power rooms. Originally they were a detriment because dupes would tune up unused petroleum generators, however they are no longer unused and my petroleum refineries are overheating due to their constant use. So something to decrease that will help. Especially now that I am planning on adding a 5th or 6th aquatuner.

    Then I need to move my ranches out of my main base and optimize them, which means I can finally expand my roster over 16 dupes.

    And then finally start my space program.

    For me, "taming" a cool Steam geyser has pretty much always meant "setting up the plumbing so it's the water used for the electrolyzer whenever it's erupting."

    As long as it's below 70C when it reaches there it won't raise the output temp from the electrolyzers at all, and even if it is, water has a higher thermal capacity than oxygen + hydrogen, so it comes out as a net heat loss anyway.

    It's a bit near my base for letting residual heat escape to get it down from cool steam to hot water.

    My plan so far is to pump the salt water into the same insulated chamber as the steam vent, heat it up using an aquatuner and using steam turbines to cool it down and use the 95°C water for things.

    Added benefit of of purifying my salt water.

    However I tried to be clever, and siphon of some water to run through the aquatuner to also output some cold water, with the idea that it'll be self regulating, only running when there's water available and not having to check both the temp of the heating chamber and the temp of the pipes.

    But my pipe layout is getting more and more convoluted and eventually backs up and everything stops. Water flow gets a bit weird when the pipes intersect multiple input/output junctions even if it looks like it should work.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Mortious wrote: »
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Mortious wrote: »
    I really need to get around to taming my cool steam geyser and it's neighbour the salt water geyser.

    So far I've setup an insulated reservoir for my water geyser, tamed 3 iron volcanos and 1 gold volcano.

    And I think I need to relook at power rooms. Originally they were a detriment because dupes would tune up unused petroleum generators, however they are no longer unused and my petroleum refineries are overheating due to their constant use. So something to decrease that will help. Especially now that I am planning on adding a 5th or 6th aquatuner.

    Then I need to move my ranches out of my main base and optimize them, which means I can finally expand my roster over 16 dupes.

    And then finally start my space program.

    For me, "taming" a cool Steam geyser has pretty much always meant "setting up the plumbing so it's the water used for the electrolyzer whenever it's erupting."

    As long as it's below 70C when it reaches there it won't raise the output temp from the electrolyzers at all, and even if it is, water has a higher thermal capacity than oxygen + hydrogen, so it comes out as a net heat loss anyway.

    It's a bit near my base for letting residual heat escape to get it down from cool steam to hot water.

    My plan so far is to pump the salt water into the same insulated chamber as the steam vent, heat it up using an aquatuner and using steam turbines to cool it down and use the 95°C water for things.

    Added benefit of of purifying my salt water.

    However I tried to be clever, and siphon of some water to run through the aquatuner to also output some cold water, with the idea that it'll be self regulating, only running when there's water available and not having to check both the temp of the heating chamber and the temp of the pipes.

    But my pipe layout is getting more and more convoluted and eventually backs up and everything stops. Water flow gets a bit weird when the pipes intersect multiple input/output junctions even if it looks like it should work.

    Don't tap the cool Steam geyser at the source, but about 20-30 tiles below it after clearing a path for the condensing water to fall. The more matter it has to come into contact with/pass through (even if it's just air) to reach the pump, the more heat it will lose along the way. You can insulate the chamber for the whole thing, then during dormant periods you can either divert your cooling loop or have the hydrogen from your electrolyzer run by there in radiant vents before going to the hydrogen generator (which, with no physical output, is deleting 100% of the heat the hydrogen absorbed) so the insulation doesn't eventually make the cool steam stay as steam.

    You can automate the tracking of the geyser's active/dormant period for the diversion with a liquid valve set to the average output per second (that is, the Per Second output during eruption times
    the Eruption period divided by the Total eruption cycle) of the geyser and a pipe element sensor. Liquid valve will make sure the flow for the element sensor is constant, so you don't have it start and stop constantly (otherwise it's memory toggles and buffer gates and you having to constantly tweak the amounts/time to figure out what will work.)

    If you have a screenshot of the pipe setup I'd like to see it. Are you leaving the salt that remains there until the geyser goes dormant, or are your dupes having to make due without table salt?

    steam_sig.png
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    I made a base! It's pretty cool.
    FD376887A5977D83B49A8C46E91AC66A004052343FBC40181F445B7F79D3730D6FBE43FC04DFB6C56A4B290EC726BA07D1EBBC9A1785120C088B2B4126ECB0AD37DFB45FA04460E497145CE530710600

    From top to bottom: Main base, industrial brick and it's cooling, Geothermal plant and main base cooling/geothermal cooling, and cool steam vent tamer (It's handling 3 cool steam vents with ease. Probably a bit overkill, but it means i've a very steady, very safe water supply).

    Currently doodling around the map trying to unearth all the geysers, vents and volcanos and figure out what i've got to work with. So far LOTS of volcanos, and not much else - though 3 cool steam vents. Which are not as exciting as actual steam vents. Still, Water is sorted - there's a couple of polluted water geysers too, if i want to jam them into a germ-spinner for Even More Water.

    Current plans are to scrap the petroleum boilers and build a real one using the volcano below my industrial brick, toy with making a Squeaky Lettuce Ranch since i have a chlorine geyser + salt water geyser already, finish strip mining the oil biome, maybe strip mine the frozen core (Wolframite!). Should probably find somewhere to put a real hospital in, just for insurance purposes. There's not really a lot of hot stuff on this map to scald dupes though (You know, it seems werid to me you can get dupes scalded, but there's no equivalent for exposing them to insanely cold temps - they just get hypothermia in which case, geez, just walk it off dupes).

    I also want to tweak/expand the Dupe Gym, so i need to find space for that. Probably plug it in on the other side of the resedntial area? or just build it into the power plant, since that already exists. Kinda given up on having showers this time - all my dupes have 40+ morale thanks to decor bombing and a surf'n'turf diet, so showers would only be a way to turn dupe time into polluted water. Which i dont really need, so ???

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
    Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
    Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
    Mortious
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Mortious wrote: »
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Mortious wrote: »
    I really need to get around to taming my cool steam geyser and it's neighbour the salt water geyser.

    So far I've setup an insulated reservoir for my water geyser, tamed 3 iron volcanos and 1 gold volcano.

    And I think I need to relook at power rooms. Originally they were a detriment because dupes would tune up unused petroleum generators, however they are no longer unused and my petroleum refineries are overheating due to their constant use. So something to decrease that will help. Especially now that I am planning on adding a 5th or 6th aquatuner.

    Then I need to move my ranches out of my main base and optimize them, which means I can finally expand my roster over 16 dupes.

    And then finally start my space program.

    For me, "taming" a cool Steam geyser has pretty much always meant "setting up the plumbing so it's the water used for the electrolyzer whenever it's erupting."

    As long as it's below 70C when it reaches there it won't raise the output temp from the electrolyzers at all, and even if it is, water has a higher thermal capacity than oxygen + hydrogen, so it comes out as a net heat loss anyway.

    It's a bit near my base for letting residual heat escape to get it down from cool steam to hot water.

    My plan so far is to pump the salt water into the same insulated chamber as the steam vent, heat it up using an aquatuner and using steam turbines to cool it down and use the 95°C water for things.

    Added benefit of of purifying my salt water.

    However I tried to be clever, and siphon of some water to run through the aquatuner to also output some cold water, with the idea that it'll be self regulating, only running when there's water available and not having to check both the temp of the heating chamber and the temp of the pipes.

    But my pipe layout is getting more and more convoluted and eventually backs up and everything stops. Water flow gets a bit weird when the pipes intersect multiple input/output junctions even if it looks like it should work.

    Don't tap the cool Steam geyser at the source, but about 20-30 tiles below it after clearing a path for the condensing water to fall. The more matter it has to come into contact with/pass through (even if it's just air) to reach the pump, the more heat it will lose along the way. You can insulate the chamber for the whole thing, then during dormant periods you can either divert your cooling loop or have the hydrogen from your electrolyzer run by there in radiant vents before going to the hydrogen generator (which, with no physical output, is deleting 100% of the heat the hydrogen absorbed) so the insulation doesn't eventually make the cool steam stay as steam.

    You can automate the tracking of the geyser's active/dormant period for the diversion with a liquid valve set to the average output per second (that is, the Per Second output during eruption times
    the Eruption period divided by the Total eruption cycle) of the geyser and a pipe element sensor. Liquid valve will make sure the flow for the element sensor is constant, so you don't have it start and stop constantly (otherwise it's memory toggles and buffer gates and you having to constantly tweak the amounts/time to figure out what will work.)

    If you have a screenshot of the pipe setup I'd like to see it. Are you leaving the salt that remains there until the geyser goes dormant, or are your dupes having to make due without table salt?

    Unfortunately I have already scrapped the setup a couple of cycles ago. I am rebuilding it bigger and more complex this time around. Will take a couple of more days since the expansion has come in conflict with a chlorine room and that always takes ages to pump out.

    I am setting up an auto sweeper setup to move out the hot salt, but I am not sure if I am going to use it. I already have so much salt from just digging it out. And then there's still the subsurface ocean to deal with.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    edited October 7
    So I have 300 hours in this game.

    And to give you an impression as to how resistant I am to learning new things I only now

    now

    Am building a base to use automation on a large scale.

    300 hours

    EDIT: Basically, I was finding it onerous to progress as I got further and further into stuff and realized I need to stop relying on my dupes for general labour. Started figuring out automation and then was like: "This could solve all my problems!"

    Nova_C on
  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    Also, I didn't know that you want to pump hot water into your electrolyzer because it releases at 70 degrees as long as the temp of the water is below 70 degrees. This changes everything about my current planned setup.

  • DaimarDaimar A Million Feet Tall of Awesome Registered User regular
    Ok, so I still have 76 hours of playing to go before I have to figure out auto sweepers. I'll figure them out someday, maybe.

    steam_sig.png
    twitch.tv/kragaar
    Nova_C
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Mortious wrote: »
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Mortious wrote: »
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Mortious wrote: »
    I really need to get around to taming my cool steam geyser and it's neighbour the salt water geyser.

    So far I've setup an insulated reservoir for my water geyser, tamed 3 iron volcanos and 1 gold volcano.

    And I think I need to relook at power rooms. Originally they were a detriment because dupes would tune up unused petroleum generators, however they are no longer unused and my petroleum refineries are overheating due to their constant use. So something to decrease that will help. Especially now that I am planning on adding a 5th or 6th aquatuner.

    Then I need to move my ranches out of my main base and optimize them, which means I can finally expand my roster over 16 dupes.

    And then finally start my space program.

    For me, "taming" a cool Steam geyser has pretty much always meant "setting up the plumbing so it's the water used for the electrolyzer whenever it's erupting."

    As long as it's below 70C when it reaches there it won't raise the output temp from the electrolyzers at all, and even if it is, water has a higher thermal capacity than oxygen + hydrogen, so it comes out as a net heat loss anyway.

    It's a bit near my base for letting residual heat escape to get it down from cool steam to hot water.

    My plan so far is to pump the salt water into the same insulated chamber as the steam vent, heat it up using an aquatuner and using steam turbines to cool it down and use the 95°C water for things.

    Added benefit of of purifying my salt water.

    However I tried to be clever, and siphon of some water to run through the aquatuner to also output some cold water, with the idea that it'll be self regulating, only running when there's water available and not having to check both the temp of the heating chamber and the temp of the pipes.

    But my pipe layout is getting more and more convoluted and eventually backs up and everything stops. Water flow gets a bit weird when the pipes intersect multiple input/output junctions even if it looks like it should work.

    Don't tap the cool Steam geyser at the source, but about 20-30 tiles below it after clearing a path for the condensing water to fall. The more matter it has to come into contact with/pass through (even if it's just air) to reach the pump, the more heat it will lose along the way. You can insulate the chamber for the whole thing, then during dormant periods you can either divert your cooling loop or have the hydrogen from your electrolyzer run by there in radiant vents before going to the hydrogen generator (which, with no physical output, is deleting 100% of the heat the hydrogen absorbed) so the insulation doesn't eventually make the cool steam stay as steam.

    You can automate the tracking of the geyser's active/dormant period for the diversion with a liquid valve set to the average output per second (that is, the Per Second output during eruption times
    the Eruption period divided by the Total eruption cycle) of the geyser and a pipe element sensor. Liquid valve will make sure the flow for the element sensor is constant, so you don't have it start and stop constantly (otherwise it's memory toggles and buffer gates and you having to constantly tweak the amounts/time to figure out what will work.)

    If you have a screenshot of the pipe setup I'd like to see it. Are you leaving the salt that remains there until the geyser goes dormant, or are your dupes having to make due without table salt?

    Unfortunately I have already scrapped the setup a couple of cycles ago. I am rebuilding it bigger and more complex this time around. Will take a couple of more days since the expansion has come in conflict with a chlorine room and that always takes ages to pump out.

    I am setting up an auto sweeper setup to move out the hot salt, but I am not sure if I am going to use it. I already have so much salt from just digging it out. And then there's still the subsurface ocean to deal with.

    Ah, I'm probably projecting my current Badlands base, where there are no tidepool biomes, no salt water geyser, and the metric fucktons of granite and rock have kinda diminished the size of the rust biomes I run across, so very little salt from that. I do have a chlorine geyser I can use for salt vines, but I've been using it for Squeaky puft ranching, since they were the type of puft I started with since there are no slime biomes (granted, I probably don't need them now that I have a full ranch of the dense Pufts I actually wanted, but on the other hand that clhorine geyser is right next to a gold volcano that would make a future farm setup difficult, and there is no nat gas geysers either, so I'm planning on liquifying the clhorine for gas grass/gassy moos as soon as I find them). I actually tried to get around this shortcoming with a map that also had subsurface oceans, but apparently the irregular oil feature and the Badlands trumps that, because most of the surface is oil biome, with a normal-sized tidepool and some badlands I was able to dig out for space travel.

    The irregular oil has been interesting. Interestingly, it doesn't seem to prevent the standard oil biome at the bottom of the map, but instead adds it as a possible biome that can spawn above that, usually near the edges. This has meant that I've been able to set up a well and refinery pretty much right next to where the rockets are, as well as close to the CO2 geyser which, along with my petroleum generators, I'm raising Molten slicksters.

    Actually kinda bummed with the good luck I've had. I was expecting a challenge with water and heat, because two of the biomes with guaranteed water geysers or vents would be missing and no clay or p. Oxygen from swamp biomes meant I'd have to get all mine from deliberate p. Oxygen production using p water and dirt, but fairly soon into it I found a polluted water vent that effectively solved both issues; just make a massive wide pit under it with regularly placed deodorizers with auto sweepers to send the clay to the kiln, and since dupes can't get food poisoning from inhalation, I can pump out everything above a certain level and use it for whatever, just make sure to use only the water from the single cool steam vent for cooking or water coolers (or be ready to make the occasional curative tablet). Also, while they are a massive pain to dig through (especially when they've divided up your starting biome into a handful of mini biomes) the unique badlands biomes contain mineable Iron. Not Iron ore, but refined Iron, enough I largely haven't bothered with lead for wiring because even after starting up full scale steel production I always have more iron than lead.

    Still, this does mean I'm getting further into space than ever before, while avoiding the annoying headaches that have stopped other bases short of that (like chronic brownouts because the base hinged on geothermal power that wasn't there anymore). Been experimenting with ways to clean up post-meteor regolith that doesn't involve making a massive automatic door rock cruncher (not because I think it's cheating, only that I don't want to deal with the massive building and automation setup) turns out auto-miners can't dig themselves out of regolith, and since they generate heat while they dig, need to be made out of steel and regularly put in something other than vacuum to cool down (because buildings, i.e. anything constructable that isn't a door or tile, only interacts with the matter in the tiles it physically occupies (the gas or liquid it's in, or solid if it's buried, but NOT other constructions within that tile) and (sometimes) it's contents for the purpose of heat transfer... and if their tiles only have vacuum, they don't lose or gain a single degree from transfer, regardless of the temp of what they are sitting on.) Granted, it doesn't need to be *that* cool when made out of steel, been using excess water from the steam vent (yeah, got one of those too) and it keeps them at or slightly above 100°C just fine (also, the vacuum loss isn't instant, nor does it suck away liquid as long as the tile it's isn't exposed, so I can just have the liquid vent directly above the miner with only a couple tiles at it's base with drywall.) Unfortunately, they can't mine through open bunker doors or airlocks either, or I'd stuff them in rooms that get filled with excess oxygen between meteor showers. Of course, they become perfectly viable with enough nobium or thermium; then the regolith that momentarily buries them until a nearby miner digs them out would be enough to "cool" them off and reaching their 575°C breaking point.

    steam_sig.png
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Daimar wrote: »
    Ok, so I still have 76 hours of playing to go before I have to figure out auto sweepers. I'll figure them out someday, maybe.

    What's giving you grief with em? Out at the moment, but I'll write up a simple crash course to them and the sort of things you can do when I get home

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
    Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
    Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
  • DaimarDaimar A Million Feet Tall of Awesome Registered User regular
    Daimar wrote: »
    Ok, so I still have 76 hours of playing to go before I have to figure out auto sweepers. I'll figure them out someday, maybe.

    What's giving you grief with em? Out at the moment, but I'll write up a simple crash course to them and the sort of things you can do when I get home

    I just haven't played around with them much since the game hasn't forced me to, except for when I had to install a conveyor rail to unload my rocket.

    steam_sig.png
    twitch.tv/kragaar
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited October 8
    Daimar wrote: »
    Daimar wrote: »
    Ok, so I still have 76 hours of playing to go before I have to figure out auto sweepers. I'll figure them out someday, maybe.

    What's giving you grief with em? Out at the moment, but I'll write up a simple crash course to them and the sort of things you can do when I get home

    I just haven't played around with them much since the game hasn't forced me to, except for when I had to install a conveyor rail to unload my rocket.

    Yeah, I spent a long time wondering how I was suppose to use them as well, but I've quickly warmed up to them with a little experimenting.

    As for how they work: The auto sweepers pick up any solid on the ground in their range and move them to either a container or Conveyor Loader that is accepting it, a building or farming tile that needs it for production or repair, or a construction job, all of which must also be within range. They will also move items from one container (including conveyor receptacles) to a building or construction job, or to another container (including loaders) but in the case of containers, the second container/loader must have a higher priority than the first container/receptacle. Other than that, they will also obey sweeping rules (resources marked for sweeping get higher priority vs. the same resource not marked, will only load items marked for sweeping into sweep-only containers) They can also pick up resources on the other side of opened airlocks and bunker doors, and even closed pneumatic doors, but are blocked by any tile.

    They are most commonly used in conjunction with conveyor systems, moving solids into a loader and picking them up from a receptacle (or ground if using a chute) and load it to it's final destination (or the next step to it) but they can be useful even by themselves. Specifically, they can be used to provide the "last mile" transportation from a nearby storage to the building or domesticated plant, which is usually an amount far less that what the dupes themselves can carry, leaving duplicants to only have to make the occasional bulk delivery of what could be several hundred kg of the needed resource and not have to bother with the moving the couple dozen kg (or less) that is actually being used at any given time from the container to the building in question. For some examples:
    OplNQYl.jpg

    The phosphorite (which is actually delivered by chute with a conveyor system, but for the sake of explanation we'll pretend it was hand-delivered to a container) is applied by the auto-sweepers to the pincha peppernuts as needed, meaning the dupes only have to show up to deliver phosphorite by the hundreds of Kg to a container, and not come back again and again to take out just 3kg of phosporite to apply it to each pincha peppernut, meaning the the only time they need to every interact with the plants themselves is during harvest time, (which will be picked up by the auto-sweepers to place in the loader and delivered to the kitchen) and can spend their time doing other jobs and deliveries.

    8gPwomD.jpg

    This autosweeper takes the gristle berry, BBQ and cooked fish from the electric grill and moves it over to the gas range for orders of Stuffed berry and Surf N' Turf, as well as raw egg from the egg cracker to the grill. Even using it for a short 4 tile trip like this streamlines the process, because A.) The dupe who might have otherwise done the delivery might not be a duplicant who can actually work the gas range, and B.) Even if they are, they might not realize that delivery means they can begin cooking before they are drawn away by another task.

    As for conveyors themselves, They start with loaders, end in chutes or receptacles, and follow normal piping logic, with each packet being up to 20kg or a single egg. Loaders and receptacles can be used by dupes if set for manual use, but are better left to the auto-sweepers, because as with "last mile" usage, both are much smaller capacities than dupes can normally carry (loader is actually larger than a dupe that doesn't have supply skills can carry, but can still be a chokepoint for delivery if it's something you expect multiple dupes to be filling) and also can make managing storage unnecessarily complicated if the priorities aren't set right (I mean, you don't want a dupe to take out resources from a receptacle only to carry it back to the loader that delivered it there in the first place, right?) Chutes are the ideal endpoint for bulk deliveries, or to places that might not have an auto-sweeper for whatever reason, while receptacles are best used as a way to deliberately constraint transportation or when wanting to deliver to multiple locations without having to set up individual rail systems for each place; For example, since phophorite is also used for wheezeworts, I might replace that chute in my pepper farm for a receptacle and add additional conveyor rail past it to deliver any extra phophorite to a location closer to where I have planted wheezworts. Some examples of that:
    MJlSAjG.jpg
    This is something I often set up when I breach the oil biome. The sweep-only containers are for lead, fossil, iron, igneous rock and granite (I have the rocks there because that lets me do massive sweep orders without having to pick and choose each individual piece of debris, and I find the Sweep for type mod only slightly less cumbersome than that.) the bottom loader is for the resources I actually want, the top for junk. The priorities are set up like this:

    C4dNUp1.jpg

    So that when dupes load marked-for sweeping resources to the containers, the sweeper will first load the resources that I want, which go to a central location, before loading the rocks into the top one, which is set up to be blocked by anything still being sent from the bottom loader, by placing a conveyor bridge whose output is on the path the resources from the bottom loader takes. This means that any time I want to build a single tile of automation wire with lead, the dupe tasked with delivery will not have to travel all the way down to the oil biome for just 5kg of lead.

    uie8Jg5.jpg

    If you don't want to build loaders and rails for every possible resource that you might get from a room, you might have to set one of these up. Receptacle brings in resources from the space ship and other production sites, and then filters them to the places that need them; top loader is for refined carbon and lime to be delivered to where steel production is at (next to the slickster ranch where the coolant can be occasionally piped through to keep it over 100C for molten slicksters) while the bottom is for rare resources to the molecular forge and the mundane components to make endgame materials. When I tap my gold volcano, the gold from there would eventually be shipped to here to go to the forge for super coolant, as will reed fiber and abbysitte when I find a planet that'd be a good source of isoresin.

    Toq9h59.jpg

    Dirt and phosphorite come in from the receptacle to be placed in the fertilizer synthesizer. when the fertilizer is produced, it is placed either in the loader, or since it's backed up with full receptacles at the other end, into the storage, which functions as overflow for all three solid resources. Since the synthesizer doesn't require any duplicant interaction other than delivery, I can leave it in an air-tight room that allows me to pump out the nat gas the synthesizer makes for a little RoI in power; the only reason the door is there is because of a piping snafu that lead to the synthesizer breaking when delivered a bunch of clean water by mistake.

    I'm sure ZombiePenguin has much more impressive examples, as I don't normally take the effort to optimize things as much as I could (the fact the egg cracker still sees use attests to that) but I hope those can provide ideas on how you can use it until in the meantime.

    Foefaller on
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    Daimar
  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    hrm, i'm at the point where i need to get to the oil biome, but it's through so much slime and so far away. slime is such a hassle :/

    aeNqQM9.jpg
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    Finally had time to boot up Pillars of Eternity and the first thing that blows me away is the writing for the NPC 'souls'.

    Then I found out those were written / contributed by early Kickstarter supporters.

    I like all of that, but I would have wished an option to recruit those random characters to my party a la Dragon's Dogma.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited October 8
    Okay so new and improved prototype setup done.

    srozocuy6aok.png

    No idea if it'll work this time

    If it does, I will replace the coolant with something else and actually use that cooling for something useful

    Mortious on
    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »
    I'm sure ZombiePenguin has much more impressive examples, as I don't normally take the effort to optimize things as much as I could (the fact the egg cracker still sees use attests to that) but I hope those can provide ideas on how you can use it until in the meantime.

    Nah, you covered most of what i was going to cover honestly!

    I would point out that despite what they claim, they draw very little power in practice, since it's only while they're active. I have a network that's got 5k worth of stuff plugged in, and it's never overloaded once despite only using conductive wire.

    What i will do is point out some good uses for them.

    One: I often have a long shaft from the top of the map to the bottom. It's usually right by the entrance to my base. Net result: Dupes tend to drop shit down it when they get interrupted for whatever reason (Shift change being the obvious issue). So a autosweeper and a conveyor loader at the very bottom, with a long rail that goes up to a chute right over my central quantum storage lock? Easy rescue of stuff. This is epsecially great in the early game when your'e just breaking into biomes or other unbreathable areas - dupes will drop a LOT of stuff when they have to go catch their breath.

    Two: Saving dupe time on repitivie tasks. Specifically, things like putting fresh sand into a water filter, or refilling critter's food. The critter feeder can only hold a tiny amount of food, and hatches are some HUNGRY fellows. You caan loose a lot of dupe time to trying to keep that stocked. Easy solution: A medium priority storage locker set to hold whatever the critter's food is, in range of a sweeper. Critters eat food form the dispenser, autosweeper reloads it, and dupes make much fewer trips to refill the locker than they would to refill the feeder. Later on you can just put receptacles in to cut out dupe time entirely. Similarly, lockers with sand in them next to a water filter, and a conveyor loader set to accept the polluted dirt and ship it somewhere useful (Mine's just dumped into my organic storage which is kept under water, so it never offgases).

    A third use: Making your critter farms insanley productive. Critters get a nasty debuff that shuts down reproduction entirely when there are more critters + eggs in a ranch than fit. (Each critter needs 12 tiles of space - some need less, like i think pacu only need 8 tiles? pufts may be similar). And dupes can take a very long time to pull eggs out. THis means most ranches can only hold 8 critters, and they make a LOT of eggs, fast. Easy fix? A loader mounted right by the wall, with the conyveor rail inside the wall. Sweeper will grab eggs and get them out of the room the moment they're laid, which keeps your ranches at maximum egg production. Then you can easily ship eggs to a drowning room, or similar.

    So on and so forth. Anywhere where there's likely to be a repetitive task that would eat up a lot of dupe time, sweepers can help.

    Like, look at my industrial brick picture upthread - all those kilns? Kept fed by an autosweeper, which also ships all the ceramic back into my base when i need it. Coal is shipped in, Dupes bring clay as needed since i fel that setting up a second rail for that was going to be a mess (hence, storage locker for hte clay.) all the lime and refined carbon gets sent up a level to my refineries, ready for use. Plastic is moved into storage the moment it's created (And the storage tells the plastic makers to shut down when i have enough of a reserve), excess is shipped off to base - or if i wanted, a tweak of the priorities and plastic will be shipped straight to my base. Sweepers are in my main pool of water, collecting all the debries my wild pacu make, and shipping filets and egg shells to where i need them.

    All this by autosweepers - which leaves my dupes free to build, strip mine areas, and do other tasks.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    I think I saw one automated setup to sweep eggs and drop them in a one-tile water pit covered by a locked mesh door.
    If the eggs were needed, dupes could reach them through the door. If not, they eventually hatched into a critter who'd then evolve into their final form of meat, which would be swept up.

    I haven't quite figured out how to do this yet though, and I can't find the video where I saw the design.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    I think I saw one automated setup to sweep eggs and drop them in a one-tile water pit covered by a locked mesh door.
    If the eggs were needed, dupes could reach them through the door. If not, they eventually hatched into a critter who'd then evolve into their final form of meat, which would be swept up.

    I haven't quite figured out how to do this yet though, and I can't find the video where I saw the design.

    The way that's done is by having the conyvor chute deliver the eggs straight into the water - as long as the door's closed and there's enough water, the critters will drown. My setup is way more complicated, and i'm not sure it's more complicated to any real benefit. It is less gamey however (I feel like eggs should not hatch underwater unless they're water based critters, you know?).

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Once I'm set up to cook meat, is there any point to keeping an egg cracker around?

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Once I'm set up to cook meat, is there any point to keeping an egg cracker around?

    Mainly so if you need to, you can smash eggs you dont want to hatch. Like if you're farming Pinches, there's no easy way to kill them - So you might want to smash their eggs. (Frankly, i'd just create a drop pit for them and let the jerks starve). It just gives you an extra way to dispose of excesss eggs. Honestly, it costs 2 tiles, i dont think it's a big cost to keep one somewhere in your base.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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