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Posts

  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Mortious wrote: »
    Okay so new and improved prototype setup done.

    srozocuy6aok.png

    No idea if it'll work this time

    If it does, I will replace the coolant with something else and actually use that cooling for something useful

    Might need an automation overview as well.

    One thing I noticed is that the bypass for the aquatuners when they aren't running might be too long relative to where it reconnects with the loop. You're going to have some water stuck there the first time they are shut off for whatever reason, which *could* be a problem if you keep adding water to the line.

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Do conveyors work like pipes, or what? Can I set up a kind of loop and materials will send themselves to the receptacle I set to receive them, or will I have to set up separate networks for eggs, building materials, etc?

    It's a moot point at the moment because I only have one dupe who can build this stuff. I'd been ignoring operating for the most part because level 2 was about tuning power generation, and I've got power to spare thanks to two natural gas geysers. So my designated cook is now also the only dupe who can build conveyors.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Do conveyors work like pipes, or what? Can I set up a kind of loop and materials will send themselves to the receptacle I set to receive them, or will I have to set up separate networks for eggs, building materials, etc?

    It's a moot point at the moment because I only have one dupe who can build this stuff. I'd been ignoring operating for the most part because level 2 was about tuning power generation, and I've got power to spare thanks to two natural gas geysers. So my designated cook is now also the only dupe who can build conveyors.

    There isn't any sort of filter system you can set up, no. You'd have to either set separate conveyor systems for each material or material type, or create a sort of "distribution center" where everything collected in one or more rooms is sent to a room where auto sweepers sort them into separate loaders that send everything to where it needs to go.

    You can do a loop for a single material type and use receptacles to keep things evenly distributed though. Fort example, sand is used in deodorizers, water sieves, and the glass forge, which for various reasons are often distributed around your base and not in a single location. Instead of attempting to have the sand your dupes store from digging or crushing rocks get distributed into X number of loaders and go mad trying to make sure each location gets the sand it needs, you can instead create a loop where the sand will fill up receptacles on the path before moving on, and you can adjust how much stays in each location by having a storage container within range of the sweeper that's set to the amount you want on hand.

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  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    A tip on autosweepers is that they automatically load machines as well. So you can use them to run kilns, deodirizers, water purifiers, fertilise plants etc without dupe labour.

    Move to New Zealand
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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    I assume autosweepers aren't smart enough to pass materials between themselves? So if I want them managing a farm I've got to make at least two, then come up with a way to make sure both of them can get the resources they need.

    I'm sure I'll figure this out, but I won't be able to experiment with them until I can get a few more dupes trained up (experimenting with one dupe is waaay too slow to bother).

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Mortious wrote: »
    Okay so new and improved prototype setup done.

    srozocuy6aok.png

    No idea if it'll work this time

    If it does, I will replace the coolant with something else and actually use that cooling for something useful

    Might need an automation overview as well.

    One thing I noticed is that the bypass for the aquatuners when they aren't running might be too long relative to where it reconnects with the loop. You're going to have some water stuck there the first time they are shut off for whatever reason, which *could* be a problem if you keep adding water to the line.



    The automation is simple; Right aquatuner is on when the oil layer is below 130°C and its coolant can handle another pass. It's basically my primer to keep the oil nice and toasty.

    Left aquatuner is on when the oil temp is below 150°C (and when there's water to be cooled, though that's not really "automated")

    I've also added some automation to check that if the water temp is above 140°C (might change that to 150) or the air pressure is below 2KGs to pump in some salt water from my salt water geyser.

    You're right about the auqatuner bypass though, and I'm not sure I even need it? This isn't a traditional cooling loop so if the aquatuner isn't running, water doesn't really need to circulate. And with my salt water coming in, there shouldn't be a situation where the aquatuner isn't running when there's water available in the pipes.

    That won't solve the issue with it backing up though since my water input far exceeds my cool water output.

    I'm also going to add a 3rd steam turbine.

    You'll notice that my steam turbine overflow is outputting to the same resiviour as my cold water, and that's because I don't need to water to be cold, just not steam. If I wanted just cold water I can just loop my steam turbine output back into my steam room.

    In hindsight the water resivour might have been a bad idea, because it equalizes the water temp so you don't get any cold water output for several cycles, then suddenly 5 tons worth, and then back to just hot water output. Will see if that becomes a problem.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited October 8
    klemming wrote: »
    I assume autosweepers aren't smart enough to pass materials between themselves? So if I want them managing a farm I've got to make at least two, then come up with a way to make sure both of them can get the resources they need.

    I'm sure I'll figure this out, but I won't be able to experiment with them until I can get a few more dupes trained up (experimenting with one dupe is waaay too slow to bother).

    They do not, but if you let them overlap one tile you can drop off the material there and they can both grab it.

    Autosweepers will grab materials from storage contrainers to load machines, but not to ship off. I'm not sure if there's a priority on whether it'll load storage contrainers or loaders first though. Might be something to look at, that way you can make a chain and keep a set amount of materials at each location.

    Mortious on
    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited October 8
    Mortious wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    I assume autosweepers aren't smart enough to pass materials between themselves? So if I want them managing a farm I've got to make at least two, then come up with a way to make sure both of them can get the resources they need.

    I'm sure I'll figure this out, but I won't be able to experiment with them until I can get a few more dupes trained up (experimenting with one dupe is waaay too slow to bother).

    They do not, but if you let them overlap one tile you can drop off the material there and they can both grab it.

    Autosweepers will grab materials from storage contrainers to load machines, but not to ship off. I'm not sure if there's a priority on whether it'll load storage contrainers or loaders first though. Might be something to look at, that way you can make a chain and keep a set amount of materials at each location.

    Loader needs to be a higher priority than the container for the sweeper to move resources between the two. This is actually kind of useful, since you can then use the loader as an overflow for when storage is full. (To, say, send it deeper into your storage area, or to a place that uses that resourse, but only in small amounts and/or not set up to be dupe-accessible.) Not sure what the behavior is when both are the same priority though.

    While they can't hand resources to each other, you can create a relay system with sweepers using unpowered automatic dispensers, which IIRC is actually faster and cheaper on power than loaders for large amounts over a relatively short distance. This is because sweepers can move up to 1000kg of stuff at a time, which a loader would have to spend 6kj of power dividing it into 50 20kg as it sends it out, when (rough estimate napkin map) an autosweeper relay could move that stuff about 100 tiles with just a little less power and time.

    Foefaller on
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  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    So, I just had a weird problem to have; generating too much power:

    You see, I don't usually put a temp gauge in the steam chamber of my cooling loops because I figure even with the turbine connected to a smart battery it will run often enough to delete the heat. However, between 3 nat gas generators, 3 petroleum generators, 5 coal, a second cooling loop, and the two turbines running off the steam vent, it, ah, didn't. And the steam got so hot it melt the lead wiring I used. Which inadvertently saved the aqua tuner from breaking, but it still meant I had to break into it an fix the wiring before everyone starved to death, because that loop was the thing keeping the mealwood the glossy drecko eat and bristle blossoms everyone else eats cool enough to grow.

    Now the active point is set to 95% of battery capacity, at least until the inside is back under 150°C. And I'm probably going to disable a couple generators in the meantime, until I get the liquid Hydrogen and O2 loops set up.

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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »
    So, I just had a weird problem to have; generating too much power:

    You see, I don't usually put a temp gauge in the steam chamber of my cooling loops because I figure even with the turbine connected to a smart battery it will run often enough to delete the heat. However, between 3 nat gas generators, 3 petroleum generators, 5 coal, a second cooling loop, and the two turbines running off the steam vent, it, ah, didn't. And the steam got so hot it melt the lead wiring I used. Which inadvertently saved the aqua tuner from breaking, but it still meant I had to break into it an fix the wiring before everyone starved to death, because that loop was the thing keeping the mealwood the glossy drecko eat and bristle blossoms everyone else eats cool enough to grow.

    Now the active point is set to 95% of battery capacity, at least until the inside is back under 150°C. And I'm probably going to disable a couple generators in the meantime, until I get the liquid Hydrogen and O2 loops set up.

    And this is part of why i feed my dupes on meat products =P. I still need to break into my geothermal plant and get the liquid lead in there out. Does sound similar to issues i ran into with my industrial block - When running at full capacity, the steam turbines could not delete heat fast enough. So i've upgraded it to have a monstrous 8 turbines, and that seems to be working. Also means i get a LOT of power out of it when it's running full tilt. Or, at least enoguh power to break even.

    Also i'm starting to think Glossy Dreckos are a waste of time. Passive plastic production IS nice, but it's also something you can rush pretty easily - even an oil refinery can easily supply a couple of plastic presses, and those vomit out plastic at a startling rate. I'm not sure though, it's one i'm still figuring out - the passive production is nice. But wether it's worth the dupe labor time, not to mention drecko ranches being a right pain in the butt to optimize, that i'm not so sure. I think they're going to become something i setup later?

    Right now i'm trying to figure out volcano taming before i broach space - my base is having a few power issues. Or rather ,it's getting close to - it's sitll power postive/power netural i ngeneral, and the battery bank i built is doing wonders to smooth things out, but it's not really going to handle any extra load, and it's still chewing up all my natural gas and hydrogen, rather than stockpiling like i was before.

    So current plans are to tame the volcano by my base for a Petroleum boiler, and figure out taming the 2 copper volcanos next to each otehr, the iron volcano ,and the gold volcano i have on the map - mainly to try and turn them into geothermal power sources, rather than to actually get the materials out of them. though, obviously, i ideally do both, probably through some sort of of conyevor loop through diamond mounted againt a steam room. or something. This game is complicated!

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  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited October 9
    For me, Glossy Dreckos seems like an obvious thing to do. Yeah, setting up their pen correctly is a pain, but when it's done, you're getting plastic for dirt and no power, rather than water (which IMO is more valuable than dirt) and the power to run the polymer press *and* the mandatory cooling loop to keep the plastic from instantly melting into naphtha as soon as it comes out (or an AETN that's not too far out of the way to pipe the petroleum to; mealwood isn't quite the same, since I've been able to keep the temp steady in many cases mixing in wheeseworts, which use the phosporite the dreckos already make) And since I can set it up long before I actually *need* plastic for anything, I usually have more than enough stockpiled for my initial steam turbines and transit tube by the time I'm ready to build them.

    As for taming metal volcanoes, the trick for pre-space is automated airlocks. Brothgar actually did a new video recently about making a universal volcano tamer using automated doors to "transport" the metal or rock in question so it doesn't become a solid block you have to mine out and still be in a place you can reach that keeps the chamber airtight:

    Foefaller on
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  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Glossy dreckos just seem so much better than a polymer press,if just for the heat saving.

    I personally try to get a rudimentary glosyy ranch up as soon as possible, giving me access to plastics way before I get to oil.

    Also egg shells, meat, phosphorite (now that wheezeworts need them) they're probably my single most useful critter.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited October 9
    So this is nearly done.

    9fyCfFBl.png

    It takes 110°C steam and 95°C salt water and outputs ~60°C clean water.

    Only 1 aqautuner runs at a time, water gets added as needed and the temp tries to stay between 130-150°C. I recover about 2/3rds of the power required to run it.

    Still playing with the numbers since I want the final output to be about 70°C ideally.

    And it's now 100% hands-off.

    And if I have some poluted water or brine or anything to get rid off, I can just attach it to my input pipe and presto. Sweepers pick up any solid outputs and drops it in the cooling loop by the steam turbines.

    Mortious on
    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
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  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    I did some reading on automatic kill systems for critters for meat harvesting and after some work - most of the ones I've seen are way too complicated.

    I mean, I think my solution only works for hatches, but it's two mechanical doors, a critter sensor, a critter drop off, a mesh tile and two NOT gates and two BUFFER gates. I've seen kill systems with seriously complex wiring and just....

    I guess maybe they're for any critter? I dunno. But it's surprisingly easy to do.

    So without too much trouble, I have 8 dupes who eat only burgers now. :P Hell, on No Sweat mode, a single lettuce plant (Waterwort? Waterweed?) is enough and I'll never need to set up a sleet wheat farm. I have too many buns as it is.

    That's a nice change from my previous bases where eating a burger was a rare treat.

    I've automated the fertilizer refining, filtration and composting (Excepting the mixing of the compost, which you'd think there'd be an upgrade to automate that), and power generation (Excepting tune ups of course).

    One thing bugs me:

    So, I was clearing the slime biomes using a pair of water airlocks to contain my chlorine zone. Within the chlorine zone I'd have it at max pressure (2kg/tile) and there'd be two algae distillers and containment to ensure all algae and slime was purifed by the chlorine before going any further. The pressure of the chlorine would keep the slime from forming polluting oxygen, so I wouldn't have to worry about pockets of polluted oxygen messing with the purification.

    I decided to try to automate things so I wouldn't have to use a water airlock, and instead have the dupes wear atmo supes while digging, and put the slime and alge into a conveyor loader, which goes into a sealed chlorine room, and an autosweeper places the stuff into the distillers/storage.

    But even at max pressure, there is polluted oxygen forming. I don't get it. Why does polluted oxygen form in this chamber, but not when the dupes are manually moving things around?

  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Was there another type of gas floating around at a lower pressure or a puddle of liquid?

    A puddle of liquid will occupy the entire tile but won't be high enough pressure to prevent off gassing.

    A useful, if hacky, technique to over pressurise rooms for storage.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    I did some reading on automatic kill systems for critters for meat harvesting and after some work - most of the ones I've seen are way too complicated.

    I mean, I think my solution only works for hatches, but it's two mechanical doors, a critter sensor, a critter drop off, a mesh tile and two NOT gates and two BUFFER gates. I've seen kill systems with seriously complex wiring and just....

    I guess maybe they're for any critter? I dunno. But it's surprisingly easy to do.

    So without too much trouble, I have 8 dupes who eat only burgers now. :P Hell, on No Sweat mode, a single lettuce plant (Waterwort? Waterweed?) is enough and I'll never need to set up a sleet wheat farm. I have too many buns as it is.

    That's a nice change from my previous bases where eating a burger was a rare treat.

    I've automated the fertilizer refining, filtration and composting (Excepting the mixing of the compost, which you'd think there'd be an upgrade to automate that), and power generation (Excepting tune ups of course).

    One thing bugs me:

    So, I was clearing the slime biomes using a pair of water airlocks to contain my chlorine zone. Within the chlorine zone I'd have it at max pressure (2kg/tile) and there'd be two algae distillers and containment to ensure all algae and slime was purifed by the chlorine before going any further. The pressure of the chlorine would keep the slime from forming polluting oxygen, so I wouldn't have to worry about pockets of polluted oxygen messing with the purification.

    I decided to try to automate things so I wouldn't have to use a water airlock, and instead have the dupes wear atmo supes while digging, and put the slime and alge into a conveyor loader, which goes into a sealed chlorine room, and an autosweeper places the stuff into the distillers/storage.

    But even at max pressure, there is polluted oxygen forming. I don't get it. Why does polluted oxygen form in this chamber, but not when the dupes are manually moving things around?

    Materials still sublimate on conveyor tracks, and I'm not 100% sure they care about air pressure while on there. All it takes is one puft and they now have a tile of low pressure polluted O2 to continue to dissolve in.

    I find it easier to have the storage in a puddle on the floor, which will make absolute certain the slime doesn't become P. O2. Yeah, it doesn't get rid of the slimelung before it becomes algae, but you can use some automation to give the chlorine time to kill off the germs (I *think* algae will still interact with the air in a conveyor loader, so you can set a clock sensor connect to the loader, and the auto-sweeper through a NOT gate, set to go active for about 10% of the day, which will give enough time for the loader to send off all the algae, with the auto-sweeper prevented from adding in more and contaminating the clean algae going out) and as long as it never gets stored in a way it can start to turn into polluted oxygen there is no way for your dupes to get sick from the slimelung in the p. water.

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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Mortious wrote: »
    Glossy dreckos just seem so much better than a polymer press,if just for the heat saving.

    I personally try to get a rudimentary glosyy ranch up as soon as possible, giving me access to plastics way before I get to oil.

    Also egg shells, meat, phosphorite (now that wheezeworts need them) they're probably my single most useful critter.

    Part of the reason I mention it is I skipped setting up glossy dreckos early this time and still got my industrial brick up easily enough - even scavenging a tiny bit from gravitas triggers the printing pod to make it for you.

    The line about the cooling also confuses me, honestly - I use the same cooling loop for keeping my kilns, metal refinery's, rock crushers and everything chill, and it's an icy 1c in there. Even before I get a cooling loop setup, it should be easy enough to just slam some ice tempshift plates behind things as a stop gap while I'm building stuff. Ice tempshift plates are the silliest things. (I beat up a volcano heat bloom with them!). Right now i'm plastering my frozen core in them to help keep it pretty cold, and freeze the output of a P02 geyser because... Eh, why not. Have a zone where it rains C02 is amusing to me.

    As to water... Once you harness geysers it feels like water stops being an issue. I've only ever had water issues when I've delayed even crude harnessing of geysers. Heck at in my current game I've already created an infinite storage tank for p02, and I need to do the same for clean water. (though admittedly, this map is nutty what with 3 cool steam, 1 steam, 2 pw and 1 slush. I'm still yet to harness the slush or the other p02).

    I dunno. This is stuff i'm poking at and figuring out. There's certainly advantages to Drecko ranches, but they're also a very slow way to get plastic. On the other hand, they're mostly passive and minimal dupe time once setup, and as noted they do make more than just plastic. But on the other other hand, When you can industrialise plastic production, is it really that beneficial to have a passive trickle of it? If it's not, then is it worth trying to rush a ranch to get that trickle pre Industry, or is it better to instead rush the industry itself?

    This is the sort of stuff i enjoy figuring out. Which reminds me, i need

    Thanks for that link, @Foefaller. I'd seen it already - honestly, i need to rewatch it a few times and let the concepts digest, because it feels too complex for me right now? Not sure how to put it. Gotta give my brain time to wrap around the concepts and eat em all up

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  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited October 10
    Different map features and asteroid types are going to mix up your starts and mid-game strats now and again. If I didn't luck out from a nearby polluted water geyser my Badlands map would be hard pressed for water, because the only guaranteed renewable water is a single cool steam vent. And all that extra water is pretty much the only reason I can run multiple gas generators, because the map has zero nat gas vents, and all my gas comes from oil wells and refineries. Different map roll, and I'd probably would be stuck pumping loose oil deposits almost exclusively and scouring the map for all the rust it had so I wouldn't have to use electrolyzers as much. At least until I could cooble together a petroleum boiler that's net gain on water.

    That, plus the fact that there is no slime biome in Badlands was the reason I set up an early drecko ranch this map, which, once I got some thimble reed seeds from the printing pod were bred into glossy (because I already had them, so why not?) Last base on Volcanea and going for Super Sustainable, it was the only way I was going to get plastic for a long time thanks to the several hundred tiles of 800°C+ rock and obsidian between me and the oil biome, and with the restrictions for the achievement I absolutely needed those turbines if I was going to produce enough power to continue to keep my base out of scalding temperatures. And even then I don't think I ever used the polymer press because I was already needing to run two aquatuners just to keep the base at a livable temp and the cooling magma vents meant I didn't have the power for a third (actually, I think it would have been 5th?)

    The valuing water thing might be another learned habit from EA though; there was no tidepool biome with guaranteed salt water geyser until the launch update, so you had to go in assuming that the two steam vents were they only infinite sources of water you were going to get.

    ...and the line about using a cooling loop for your industrial block confuses me. Kilns can't overheat, and can make enough ceramic by the time you unlock Metal Refineries that you can make them out of it, which means it's not going to overheat unless the room it's in is nearly hot enough to melt lead, which you could prevent by, humorously enough, running the crude oil or petrol coolant around a bit in radiant pipes after it's cycled through the steam chamber until it's *only* 125°C. And as long as you aren't putting the rock crusher in the same exact room, in most maps it should stay cool enough on it's own without almost any cooling whatsoever, certainly not super coolant cool. You're spending 1.2kw of power to do something you should only need atmo suits and, at most, 8kg/cycle of phosporite and a pair of wheezeworts to do.

    If you're worried about atmo suits limiting dupe access for delivery, just make a metal ore storage of priority 8 containers with a priority 9 loader for each ore, each leading to it's own receptacle, which will hold 100kg of that metal in reserve and keep the rest from being set in by virtue of backing up the line until the refinery order is made. That should make sure you only need the dupes who run the block inside without having all your metal ore stuck in there as well.

    Foefaller on
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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    I'm spending a whole lot less than 1.2k watts. The single aquatuner in my brick is cooling the steam turbines as well as the metal refineries, rock crushers, and presses. It was doing the oil refineries too, but they've been scraped. Haven't figured out what I'll put in the bottom yet... Molecular forge, I guess?

    But seriously, my current setup is costing me about 300 kj to run the aquatuner. So you know, a right pittance. When the brick is going full tilt... I actually start making power. 8 turbines is Overkill, but boy do they do work. That and I only have 3 aquatuners on the map. You just... Don't need a lot of them when you use icebox designs. They pump out disturbing amounts of cooling

    I've only even got near brownouts when I had every single refinery running before I installed the extras.

    Mostly I just like keeping it cool because it saves me headaches - I centralize my storage, I don't have to worry about anything going screwed, the whole thing just works. Heck, that's what I should do down the bottom - slam a glass forge in and give this baby some real heat to play with.

    I get the impression we've got pretty different playstyles and ways of thinking about what we're trying to do in the game. (Which is cool! I enjoy contrasting things).

    Map difference also a significant thing - I'm on a geoactive rime map so whooo boy, water is not an issue.

    Well early game stopping it freezing in bad places were, but that's not been a problem for hundreds of cycles

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  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    I did some reading on automatic kill systems for critters for meat harvesting and after some work - most of the ones I've seen are way too complicated.

    I mean, I think my solution only works for hatches, but it's two mechanical doors, a critter sensor, a critter drop off, a mesh tile and two NOT gates and two BUFFER gates. I've seen kill systems with seriously complex wiring and just....

    I guess maybe they're for any critter? I dunno. But it's surprisingly easy to do.

    So without too much trouble, I have 8 dupes who eat only burgers now. :P Hell, on No Sweat mode, a single lettuce plant (Waterwort? Waterweed?) is enough and I'll never need to set up a sleet wheat farm. I have too many buns as it is.

    That's a nice change from my previous bases where eating a burger was a rare treat.

    I've automated the fertilizer refining, filtration and composting (Excepting the mixing of the compost, which you'd think there'd be an upgrade to automate that), and power generation (Excepting tune ups of course).

    One thing bugs me:

    So, I was clearing the slime biomes using a pair of water airlocks to contain my chlorine zone. Within the chlorine zone I'd have it at max pressure (2kg/tile) and there'd be two algae distillers and containment to ensure all algae and slime was purifed by the chlorine before going any further. The pressure of the chlorine would keep the slime from forming polluting oxygen, so I wouldn't have to worry about pockets of polluted oxygen messing with the purification.

    I decided to try to automate things so I wouldn't have to use a water airlock, and instead have the dupes wear atmo supes while digging, and put the slime and alge into a conveyor loader, which goes into a sealed chlorine room, and an autosweeper places the stuff into the distillers/storage.

    But even at max pressure, there is polluted oxygen forming. I don't get it. Why does polluted oxygen form in this chamber, but not when the dupes are manually moving things around?

    Materials still sublimate on conveyor tracks, and I'm not 100% sure they care about air pressure while on there. All it takes is one puft and they now have a tile of low pressure polluted O2 to continue to dissolve in.

    I find it easier to have the storage in a puddle on the floor, which will make absolute certain the slime doesn't become P. O2. Yeah, it doesn't get rid of the slimelung before it becomes algae, but you can use some automation to give the chlorine time to kill off the germs (I *think* algae will still interact with the air in a conveyor loader, so you can set a clock sensor connect to the loader, and the auto-sweeper through a NOT gate, set to go active for about 10% of the day, which will give enough time for the loader to send off all the algae, with the auto-sweeper prevented from adding in more and contaminating the clean algae going out) and as long as it never gets stored in a way it can start to turn into polluted oxygen there is no way for your dupes to get sick from the slimelung in the p. water.

    This was my suspicion.

    Dammit. Then I either exchange the air once in a while, or completely tear down my slime processing area.

    Bleh.

  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    I'm spending a whole lot less than 1.2k watts. The single aquatuner in my brick is cooling the steam turbines as well as the metal refineries, rock crushers, and presses. It was doing the oil refineries too, but they've been scraped. Haven't figured out what I'll put in the bottom yet... Molecular forge, I guess?

    But seriously, my current setup is costing me about 300 kj to run the aquatuner. So you know, a right pittance. When the brick is going full tilt... I actually start making power. 8 turbines is Overkill, but boy do they do work. That and I only have 3 aquatuners on the map. You just... Don't need a lot of them when you use icebox designs. They pump out disturbing amounts of cooling

    I've only even got near brownouts when I had every single refinery running before I installed the extras.

    Mostly I just like keeping it cool because it saves me headaches - I centralize my storage, I don't have to worry about anything going screwed, the whole thing just works. Heck, that's what I should do down the bottom - slam a glass forge in and give this baby some real heat to play with.

    I get the impression we've got pretty different playstyles and ways of thinking about what we're trying to do in the game. (Which is cool! I enjoy contrasting things).

    Map difference also a significant thing - I'm on a geoactive rime map so whooo boy, water is not an issue.

    Well early game stopping it freezing in bad places were, but that's not been a problem for hundreds of cycles

    You're still playing on No Sweat too, right? Most of my cooling efforts are related to farming, because I find that on Survival getting ranching large enough to sustain a reasonable dupe population without at least early mealwood planter boxes is simply not possible when they are eating 1000kcal/cycle, at least if you want more than 3-4 dupes before cycle 30. And once the farming conditions are set, expansion is usually really quick; add a bridge or two, some radiant pipe, wait a couple cycles and voila, another room cool enough for whatever it is you want to grow.

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  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    I did some reading on automatic kill systems for critters for meat harvesting and after some work - most of the ones I've seen are way too complicated.

    I mean, I think my solution only works for hatches, but it's two mechanical doors, a critter sensor, a critter drop off, a mesh tile and two NOT gates and two BUFFER gates. I've seen kill systems with seriously complex wiring and just....

    I guess maybe they're for any critter? I dunno. But it's surprisingly easy to do.

    So without too much trouble, I have 8 dupes who eat only burgers now. :P Hell, on No Sweat mode, a single lettuce plant (Waterwort? Waterweed?) is enough and I'll never need to set up a sleet wheat farm. I have too many buns as it is.

    That's a nice change from my previous bases where eating a burger was a rare treat.

    I've automated the fertilizer refining, filtration and composting (Excepting the mixing of the compost, which you'd think there'd be an upgrade to automate that), and power generation (Excepting tune ups of course).

    One thing bugs me:

    So, I was clearing the slime biomes using a pair of water airlocks to contain my chlorine zone. Within the chlorine zone I'd have it at max pressure (2kg/tile) and there'd be two algae distillers and containment to ensure all algae and slime was purifed by the chlorine before going any further. The pressure of the chlorine would keep the slime from forming polluting oxygen, so I wouldn't have to worry about pockets of polluted oxygen messing with the purification.

    I decided to try to automate things so I wouldn't have to use a water airlock, and instead have the dupes wear atmo supes while digging, and put the slime and alge into a conveyor loader, which goes into a sealed chlorine room, and an autosweeper places the stuff into the distillers/storage.

    But even at max pressure, there is polluted oxygen forming. I don't get it. Why does polluted oxygen form in this chamber, but not when the dupes are manually moving things around?

    Materials still sublimate on conveyor tracks, and I'm not 100% sure they care about air pressure while on there. All it takes is one puft and they now have a tile of low pressure polluted O2 to continue to dissolve in.

    I find it easier to have the storage in a puddle on the floor, which will make absolute certain the slime doesn't become P. O2. Yeah, it doesn't get rid of the slimelung before it becomes algae, but you can use some automation to give the chlorine time to kill off the germs (I *think* algae will still interact with the air in a conveyor loader, so you can set a clock sensor connect to the loader, and the auto-sweeper through a NOT gate, set to go active for about 10% of the day, which will give enough time for the loader to send off all the algae, with the auto-sweeper prevented from adding in more and contaminating the clean algae going out) and as long as it never gets stored in a way it can start to turn into polluted oxygen there is no way for your dupes to get sick from the slimelung in the p. water.

    This was my suspicion.

    Dammit. Then I either exchange the air once in a while, or completely tear down my slime processing area.

    Bleh.

    You can run the conveyer belts through tiles.

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  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    I am running 5 aquatuners pretty much constantly for cooling.

    This map has zero ice biomes, and hence no nullifies and so many sources of heat. I have 1 cool slush gesyer so far, but I buried it under a mile of salt water by accedent. Gonna take a lot of cycles to clean that up.

    So I don't do anything that produces net heat if I don't have to.

    I am over 1k cycles and I still don't use electrolyzers for base oxygen, only for atmosuit stations, since I don't need to cool it that way.

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Do the mouth breather/divers lungs perks affect the amount of CO2 dupes exhale as well?

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  • DaimarDaimar A Million Feet Tall of Awesome Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Do the mouth breather/divers lungs perks affect the amount of CO2 dupes exhale as well?

    I would guess it does, the game is pretty good about preserving mass on inputs and outputs.

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  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    Mortious wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    I did some reading on automatic kill systems for critters for meat harvesting and after some work - most of the ones I've seen are way too complicated.

    I mean, I think my solution only works for hatches, but it's two mechanical doors, a critter sensor, a critter drop off, a mesh tile and two NOT gates and two BUFFER gates. I've seen kill systems with seriously complex wiring and just....

    I guess maybe they're for any critter? I dunno. But it's surprisingly easy to do.

    So without too much trouble, I have 8 dupes who eat only burgers now. :P Hell, on No Sweat mode, a single lettuce plant (Waterwort? Waterweed?) is enough and I'll never need to set up a sleet wheat farm. I have too many buns as it is.

    That's a nice change from my previous bases where eating a burger was a rare treat.

    I've automated the fertilizer refining, filtration and composting (Excepting the mixing of the compost, which you'd think there'd be an upgrade to automate that), and power generation (Excepting tune ups of course).

    One thing bugs me:

    So, I was clearing the slime biomes using a pair of water airlocks to contain my chlorine zone. Within the chlorine zone I'd have it at max pressure (2kg/tile) and there'd be two algae distillers and containment to ensure all algae and slime was purifed by the chlorine before going any further. The pressure of the chlorine would keep the slime from forming polluting oxygen, so I wouldn't have to worry about pockets of polluted oxygen messing with the purification.

    I decided to try to automate things so I wouldn't have to use a water airlock, and instead have the dupes wear atmo supes while digging, and put the slime and alge into a conveyor loader, which goes into a sealed chlorine room, and an autosweeper places the stuff into the distillers/storage.

    But even at max pressure, there is polluted oxygen forming. I don't get it. Why does polluted oxygen form in this chamber, but not when the dupes are manually moving things around?

    Materials still sublimate on conveyor tracks, and I'm not 100% sure they care about air pressure while on there. All it takes is one puft and they now have a tile of low pressure polluted O2 to continue to dissolve in.

    I find it easier to have the storage in a puddle on the floor, which will make absolute certain the slime doesn't become P. O2. Yeah, it doesn't get rid of the slimelung before it becomes algae, but you can use some automation to give the chlorine time to kill off the germs (I *think* algae will still interact with the air in a conveyor loader, so you can set a clock sensor connect to the loader, and the auto-sweeper through a NOT gate, set to go active for about 10% of the day, which will give enough time for the loader to send off all the algae, with the auto-sweeper prevented from adding in more and contaminating the clean algae going out) and as long as it never gets stored in a way it can start to turn into polluted oxygen there is no way for your dupes to get sick from the slimelung in the p. water.

    This was my suspicion.

    Dammit. Then I either exchange the air once in a while, or completely tear down my slime processing area.

    Bleh.

    You can run the conveyer belts through tiles.

    They are, and the conveyor receptacle is right adjacent to the tile, but it's still putting out polluted oxygen.

    I think what I'll do is have two chambers. One for the distillers and no chlorine and one for the storage with chlorine and only algae will go into the chlorine room.

  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    This talk of cooling and my problem with just too much damn water has presented me with a solution though; ice!

    All I need to do is freeze an entire subsurface ocean's worth of water (plus all the map's poluted water + some vents), dig it out into loose ice, and then it will just occupy a tile. Until I forget about it, some heat gets in, and the entire thing explodes.

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  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    Mortious wrote: »
    This talk of cooling and my problem with just too much damn water has presented me with a solution though; ice!

    All I need to do is freeze an entire subsurface ocean's worth of water (plus all the map's poluted water + some vents), dig it out into loose ice, and then it will just occupy a tile. Until I forget about it, some heat gets in, and the entire thing explodes.

    It's win win!

    destroyah87
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Um, excuse me?
    x5n2z1banuy8.jpg
    At first I thought this was saying I had over a million mealwood seeds (which seemed improbable), but I guess I've somehow lost 0.7646 of a seed somewhere?

    I can't find where the remaining .2354 is, so this is just going to bug me.

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  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    That's weird. Could composting a seed and deconstructing the compost heap do that?

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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    @Mortious & @Foefaller could you both provide screenshots of your cooling loops? I'm really curious how you've got em setup now.

    To check, your not plugging the loop straight into an aquatuner are you? Icebox designs give you way more chilling

    On rime, early the issue tends to be reversed - I had to learn how to build a heating loop so that my plants wouldn't freeze to death. Thankfully, that's pretty easy to do. Though I did lose my nature reserve to a flooding accident. Plants do not like being submerged in negative 15c water

    @klemming - it's a bug with storage containers. A very annoying one!

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  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited October 11
    I'll post a screenshot in a couple of hours when I get home, but I have few different designs depending on what the use case is.

    The most generic one is steam turbine on top of two aqautuners encased in ceramic with water/vacuum that run radiant pipes of crude oil through a giant pool of crude oil encased in metal tiles. 7x14 tiles of it.

    It's purpose is just to cool everything around it and usually lives in the middle of a hot area, and then I snake pipes off it using the "bridge" trick to keep the coolant flowing without needing a pump.

    Then I have a smaller design that goes over a metal volcano or that metal refinery one I posted earlier (which needs a second or third steam turbine added) to remove heat from a closed loop, but not really cool anything outside itself.

    They only setup where I use the aqautuner to cool something directly was my weird steam vent/salt water vent setup I posted yesterday.

    Which btw works really well! Foefaller was correct about the bypass pipe by the aqautuner. Water got stuck in there and eventually broke the pipe, so I've removed the bypass. There isn't really a likely scenario where there would be water sitting in the aquatuner pipe.

    e.g.
    hmd4ivlvhrq7.png

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  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Mortious & Foefaller could you both provide screenshots of your cooling loops? I'm really curious how you've got em setup now.

    To check, your not plugging the loop straight into an aquatuner are you? Icebox designs give you way more chilling

    On rime, early the issue tends to be reversed - I had to learn how to build a heating loop so that my plants wouldn't freeze to death. Thankfully, that's pretty easy to do. Though I did lose my nature reserve to a flooding accident. Plants do not like being submerged in negative 15c water

    klemming - it's a bug with storage containers. A very annoying one!

    Never heard of an "icebox" design. From your previous comments, I'm guessing you're using a p water or super coolant cooling loop to make ice and then use it as tempshift plates where you need them?

    Not sure if that's actually better. Unless tempshift are an exception, I believe buildings (which IIRC for heat/gameplay purposes means pretty much everything buildable except tiles) are normally treated as having only 1/5 their actual mass for heat capacity purposes, so a building of ice is going to take less heat out of the area before it melts than the same mass of ice as debris, even if the building has a faster change in the temperature thanks to (usually) touching more cells and the formula used for building-to-occupied-cells heat transfer being more favorable for sudden temp changes.

    The other meaning I can think of is making a freezing cold room with a small loop to chill the larger loop. This would be a superior setup if you are maximising the limited super coolant you might have for the small loop, or want to keep that room colder than the rest for other reasons, but if both loops are using water or polluted water* there really isn't any point; tuner+turbine is going to take the same amount of DTUs out of the world regardless of how long or short the loop is. Only the heat capacity of the liquid flowing through it matters.

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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    edited October 11
    Mortious wrote: »
    I'll post a screenshot in a couple of hours when I get home, but I have few different designs depending on what the use case is.

    The most generic one is steam turbine on top of two aqautuners encased in ceramic with water/vacuum that run radiant pipes of crude oil through a giant pool of crude oil encased in metal tiles. 7x14 tiles of it.

    It's purpose is just to cool everything around it and usually lives in the middle of a hot area, and then I snake pipes off it using the "bridge" trick to keep the coolant flowing without needing a pump.

    Then I have a smaller design that goes over a metal volcano or that metal refinery one I posted earlier (which needs a second or third steam turbine added) to remove heat from a closed loop, but not really cool anything outside itself.

    They only setup where I use the aqautuner to cool something directly was my weird steam vent/salt water vent setup I posted yesterday.

    Which btw works really well! Foefaller was correct about the bypass pipe by the aqautuner. Water got stuck in there and eventually broke the pipe, so I've removed the bypass. There isn't really a likely scenario where there would be water sitting in the aquatuner pipe.

    Worth noting that Crude is a really bad coolant to be using in that sort of system. Polluted Water or just Water (As long as things arent going to break/vaporize in the pipes) have much better ability to move heat around. My coolant pipes are currently all either water or p.water - When i get super coolant, i'll probablyt use some of that somewhere ,but right now? No real need.

    @Foefaller the following screenshots have a couple of takes on the icebox design - Pump based and Injector based. Pump based is a lot more space efficient, but obviously a lot more power hungry. Injector based is waaaay more power efficient, but like 2-3 times as big. These things are amazing at giving you consistent temperature. Also you get to leverage all that delicious thermal mass of the water. Pump-based pulls water from a contained room (I dunno how mine managed to offgass, it's annoying - i need to fix that but have been lazy), pumps it into the aquatuner and drops it right back in, with radiant piping for the aquatuner's output on the way to the drop. The cooling loops cycle around the aluminum metal tiles around the outside of the box. Injector based cycles a loop into the cool room (I was lazy here and made it the same loop that chilled the steam turbines because i dont need THAT much cooling on this loop), which uses a set of metal tiles, steel door, metal tiles to connect with a second cool room. Temp sensor in that room controls the door - temp gets above whatever i want my cooling loop to be at? Door closes, cold rushes into the room from the cool room, and eventually the temp stabilises to what it should be - at which point the door slams open and we have delicious vacuum, perfectly thermally isolating things.

    The brick design in the spoiler is pump based, the battery/geothermal one is an injector. Heat maps included so you can see how crazy good these are - The only reason my industrial brick is even slightly warm? I made molten glass. That's what it took to even mildly heat that area vs a single aquatuner. The other heat map? That single aquatuner is chilling ALL those batteries, 3 steam turbines, and my ENTIRE BASE, including it's power brick. One aqua tuner. (The heatbloom at the bottom is intentional, by the by - i'm pumping the hot water from my geysers through there to kill off germs in it, while chilling it down before it goes into my main water tank. i actually need to setup a proper infinite storage block for clean water, i'm getting a lot of it)
    0A42DA0F8B423AD49BBEF6F0280A1EFF5F44148364280887416A54492360D0BAEBFD4D2DB95E98D69DF90D1A2847A8E12814E7F44E08D06EF50BB2C8CA8043AB1B3EEE7B8BE684319AF5194E19EC2897

    Also, i upgraded my industrial brick - it now has an attached petroleum boiler. +Glass forges and molecular forges. Hooray! I also beat up space. Stupid space. Full of space stuff.

    Drecko ranch has been scrapped as well. With my industrial brick up and running, i now maintain a steady 40 tons of plastic - and if it falls below that amount? On go the plastic presses till i hit that amount again. Insteadi'm ranching pokeshells - I need to do some work to optimize that, including setting up a food store for my Pokeshells, and multiple "Storage" rooms for excess Pokeshells to be delivered too. Or something - the goal here is to get a steady flow of lime, which is my current choke. I mean, i have 60 tons of steel, but my map has only a few tiny fragments of fossil left. The problem i' mrunning into is dupes will not deliver pokeshells elsewhere if there's more than 20 at the delivery point - which given the excess pokeshell "Room" is techincally the entire map, that's... irksome. I have some ideas on how to fix this though.

    Considering scrapping the Hatch ranches too, and just ranching voles. I'm sitting on over 200t of refined carbon, i've lost track of how much coal, and i havent even dug out the entire map, and every single one of my power generators that's not my Petroleum generators have shut down because i'm over producing power by a ton (...even my battery brick is full, and i'm still making an excess 400kj every day). So it's probably a more productive use of rancher time at this point? I'll need to do some room re-designs to handle voles though. It's not like my single rancher is exactly busy with life. 16 hatches, 1 Pokeshell, and i still find him out delivering stuff or collecting things because his grooming lasts for so long.

    I have vauge plans to build a proper pacu ranch as well, mainly with an eye to getting More Lime via eggshells. a tame pacu lives 25 days and makes 16 eggs during that time, and those eggs could either be cracked, or hatch in a single day if hugged and incubated. Though, i'd need to sort out alage refining, which is going to be a limited process, sicne i dont really want to try and ranch Pufts just to keep a single pacu fed. Feeding the pokeshell alone is going to require a dedicated arbor grove and ethanol distiller. (One distiller is enough to keep a single pokeshell fed all day, and i have no idea what i'll do with the actual ethanol. I'd burn it, but uh... Guess it's time for yet anotehr infintie storage lock)

    The more i type this, the more i think i'm going to scrap the hatch ranches and just redesign that whole ranch area to fit in new stuff. I should also really, really figure out ranching molten Slicksters, just to make the whole petroleum refining process more efficient - right now all the c02 that process makes is getting crapped out into space.


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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    I think I still don't get how conveyors work.
    I just want to clear an area of debris before it gets drowned in too-hot water.
    It's past an atmo-suit checkpoint that only has two suits (and I have other stuff I want my dupes working on anyway), so I figured I'd set up a quick conveyor system to just shift everything inside my base where they can pick it up at their leisure:
    j1cw1uem1hk5.jpg
    I tried just dropping everything from the conveyor, but that resulted in dupes running up, grabbing every 20kg parcel the moment it landed, and just all getting tied up with it.
    So I tried a receptacle, and it just gets full and sits there and no-one empties it, even when I set it to manual use.

    What's my best option here?

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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    I think I still don't get how conveyors work.
    I just want to clear an area of debris before it gets drowned in too-hot water.
    It's past an atmo-suit checkpoint that only has two suits (and I have other stuff I want my dupes working on anyway), so I figured I'd set up a quick conveyor system to just shift everything inside my base where they can pick it up at their leisure:
    j1cw1uem1hk5.jpg
    I tried just dropping everything from the conveyor, but that resulted in dupes running up, grabbing every 20kg parcel the moment it landed, and just all getting tied up with it.
    So I tried a receptacle, and it just gets full and sits there and no-one empties it, even when I set it to manual use.

    What's my best option here?

    @klemming

    If they're running and picking it up immediately, it means that they want it for something, or they're trying to store it somewhere. Receptacles set to manual use just mean that dupes can put stuff INTO them. The onyl thing receptacles do is act as an end point for where things go. One thing to try - click on a dupe when they're running to grab the 20kg parcel, and see what they're trying to do with it. Storing? Supplying? something else? That'll give you some information on why they're obsessed with it. Like right now, your dupes should only be taking stuff from the receptacle if they need it, as i understand it. Receptacles also dont hold much - only 100kg. You could improve matters by sticking another auto sweeper by the receptacle, and a couple of storage bins - it should pull stuff out the receptacle and put it into the bins.

    The best way to make use of conveyor systems for storage/cleaning (in my opinion) is to have a dedicated dump point, and just limit places where you try and pack materials into a container. Like this glorious mess is my central shipping and storage:
    40C0E9FE3B88E9CF05F97ADE17E4D03426A61988

    The automatic dispensers are set to sweep only. So dupes will only put materials in them if i mark materials for clean up - this blocks the dupes from getting stuck in infinite loops of picking up and dropping materials. The materials are dropped into a short pool of water - this stops the materials from off gassing, if that's a risk. Also acts as a heatsink, which is a pleasant side benefit. Conveyor rails are setup so that where i do have swepers, everything gets shipped back to one of the Chutes, and again - dropped straight in the water. Loaders are set up for various specific resources that always in use, so they're collected and shipped right back out to where i need them. Like in this screenshot you can see coal, sand & igenous rock being shipped out - supplied to my Industrial brick, my various water cleaners, and my hatch ranches specifically. Once i set it all up, it's very hands off.

    A second tip - This is personal preference, but I've found building one giant dock and having it as the single entry/exit to the base tends to improve flow drastically. It also cuts down on dupes being dumbarses and leaving suits on the floor or getting stuck (like i have 20 dupes, my dock holds 30 suits, so there's never issues with suits being unavailable or or unoxygented. Though, it does mean this system is a huge oxygen hog, so i have a very big spom to fuel it. Costs and benefits). Also makes it much easier to lock dupes inside the base if need be - like any newbies to the base are not allowed out until they've hit the gym long enough to get Astronomy & Exosuit Training. (Research part isnt neccesary, but it DOES increase the rate they skill up, and when i'm at the point i'm making dupes hit the gym, having them get a bulky 15+ atheltics before they even learn Exosuit training is really nice. It also means they'll grow faster in whatever their actual job is goign to be. again, totally not necessary - just something i like to do)

    I hope that all helps!

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  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    I'm using crude for it's temp range which is larger than polluted water or water. Hard to boil/freeze water using water. Only difference is crude uses a bit more energy to get there.

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  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    @The Zombie Penguin I still don't see the appeal, other than future proofing for Super Coolant (put the coolant in the small loop of the pump-free version and have your tuners work even less time for the same amount of cooling.) I guess it's a way to reach the target temp quicker on setup/brownout recovery, but once it's there it shouldn't matter if you're using a icebox or not to keep it that cool; shorter loop doesn't somehow make it take out more DTUs than what the 14C per packet per second the tuner removes does.

    Though that might be just me. I tend to take a lax approach to optimizing, which probably bites me in the butt from time to time (especially in regards to power) but also keeps me sane, as letting perfect become the enemy of good and spending too much time on optimizing is a surefire way to have me just give up the current base and start a new one.

    That said, you also might be able to make that second one smaller by having it be all metal tile, except for one square in the middle where the thermo sensor and a bit of some liquid (Probably crude, as it would react to the temp changes quickly) so it can gauge the temp of the tiles around it. Radiant pipes are always going to have better conductivity than the matter that makes up the cell it's in (unless you make the mistake of building them out of lead, which I have done a couple times >_<), so you might as well go for broke with keeping it in metal tiles for the heat exchanger.

    As for ranching Molten Slicksters, best way I've found is to have the refinery coolant first snake through the ranch until it's over 100C before it starts going through the turbines. Course that requires having the foresight of putting your industry next to your power (don't necessarily need to leave space between them for the ranch though, unless it's side-by-side, as you probably want to build it more like a silo for reasons I'll get into below) Another would be regolith. If you can ship it through insulated tiles and/or vacuum the entire way it should reach there at or around the 300C it impacts the surface at. You could also melt it into magma with a volcano (or an insulated chamber below a rocket silo that sees constant use, which I believe Brothgar did in his latest video) Which effectively increases the amount of heat that's there by a factor of 5.

    You might also make everything in your power block out of steel and insulate it and the ranch from the outside world, but you'll probably still need some extra heat from somewhere. This is because slicksters, even molten ones, delete a LOT of heat while eating. Which comes up to the next thing you need to make sure of, that the slicksters never spend ANY time in the oil/petroleum they "produce," because no matter how hot the slickster is, it always comes out literally cold enough to kill them. First attempts at a slickster ranch failed utterly because of this, so you'll need to make sure they're on mesh tiles so the petroleum can drop into a lower chamber with an automated door conveyor to push it to the pump. I have mine on a 200s filter gate, but honestly I could probably do a clock sensor that triggers it once per cycle (I'm also using a CO2 vent, so I didn't have to worry about keeping my refineries next to my power, though I have built an extra petroleum generator or two above it when I needed it. In retrospect, I probably should have built the ranch tall and narrow so I wouldn't have needed quite as long of a conveyor, but eh.
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    Mortious wrote: »
    I'm using crude for it's temp range which is larger than polluted water or water. Hard to boil/freeze water using water. Only difference is crude uses a bit more energy to get there.

    More than "a bit," you have to run crude oil through the loop at least five times to remove the same amount of heat as running water through twice.

    Should only be using crude (or better, petroleum) for temps above 100C. For temps at or below freezing for P.water I usually use ethanol; the way radiant pipes work means the low conductivity doesn't hurt it as much as you'd think compared to crude, and I'm pulling twice as much heat out when the tuner is running that I would with crude or petroleum.

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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »
    @The Zombie Penguin I still don't see the appeal, other than future proofing for Super Coolant (put the coolant in the small loop of the pump-free version and have your tuners work even less time for the same amount of cooling.) I guess it's a way to reach the target temp quicker on setup/brownout recovery, but once it's there it shouldn't matter if you're using a icebox or not to keep it that cool; shorter loop doesn't somehow make it take out more DTUs than what the 14C per packet per second the tuner removes does.

    I wish i knew the math on this stuff - i will say i've seen vastly better results ever since using an icebox design than when i was trying to just hook stuff straight through the aquatuners. ceartinly, it's a lot easier to build customzied loops using icebox designs - you can for instance have multiple chill rooms atached to the icebox, just with different settings in them on when they open the door.
    Also part of the point of all that liquid is just have a huge chunk of thermal mass - so the loop chills very, very fast when it passes through.

    My current slickster plan is just to give them an Aquatuner, and run petroleum through it to make the heat. Power inefficient, but the way i'm running my base i am generating 12-15k watts constantly. As you do. So i've gotta do SOMETHING with all that power.... (Pro tip: Petroleum boilers are hot bullshit in the best way). And an aquatuner seems like the best way to keep the room nice and toasty - and have precision control over exactly how toasty. Plus it'll actually make the entire system Petroleum postive, rather than neutral. Though i'm not going to try and ranch enough to eat the entire output, that would be, well, insane. So, so insane.

    Still, setting all this up should be a fun project. I also need to set up an arbor tree farm and ethanol refining setup... because that seems to be the best way to get Polluted dirt, and one Ethanol Distiller running all day is enough to feed one pokeshell. All this to get lime. (And since i think i have a polluted oxygen vent somewhere, maybe i'll setup some sort of algae creation system to feed a pacu. Maybe.) Once i've nailed all of that into place, i'll actually start figuring out firing off some ROCKETS into space.

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  • ToyDToyD Registered User regular
    edited October 12
    Well I finally am making it into the mid game and I think I’m doing decently well. I have enough power, several cooling turbines going although I really need to reorganize. However I have a real problem.
    The magma had a POI spawn and break the abyssalite barrier into the oil biome at the bottom. I’ve walled it off on either side but I didn’t notice it until it got so hot it broke through the top of the oil biome just below my base. So I have a single layer of insulation tiles at the bottom of my base staving off ever increasing temps. Currently it’s nearly 300C. What kinds of approaches would you guys suggest to tackle this?

    ToyD on
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