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The Gritty [NHL] Thread - Draft Lottery - April 9, Playoffs Start April 10

2456775

Posts

  • Le_GoatLe_Goat Frechified Goat Person BostonRegistered User regular
    Cobalt60 wrote: »
    A skate raised 1cm above the blueline, while technically offside, had absolutely no bearing on whether that goal was scored.
    If that offsides not being called leads to a pass or shot that leads to a goal, it does have a bearing. That being said, I still 100% agree that it's being used by coaches as a "What the hell, why not? Let's just give it a shot." The best idea I've ever heard to tidy this up is what @wunderbar suggested: getting a challenge wrong leads to a minor penalty for Delay of Game. I'd be 100% fine with that.

    While I agree that being insensitive is an issue, so is being oversensitive.
  • wunderbarwunderbar What Have I Done? Registered User regular
    LD50 wrote: »
    I think the offsides rule is ultimately good, but that its enforcement and definition is too strict. The point of the offsides rule is to give the defending team an advantage by preventing the opposing team from setting up in their zone. A 'close' offsides does not accomplish that. IMO the offsides rule should be adjusted to only take effect in situations where the defending team isn't getting an advantage any longer. It should require much more egregious attacker presence before a play can be called offsides.

    See I don't like this because than you're just moving the blue line and making it a new, subjective, invisible line. If the blue line is not the blue line where is the "line" in which they'll call offside? 1 foot over? 18 inches? Will it be different every day? (yes). Will different officials call that differently? (yes).

    We need to take the subjectivity out of these decisions, not create more.

    XBL: thewunderbar PSN: thewunderbar NNID: thewunderbar Steam: wunderbar87 Twitter: wunderbar
    Elvenshaefacetious
  • Le_GoatLe_Goat Frechified Goat Person BostonRegistered User regular
    edited May 2017
    Let's just be happy that we have a definitive line for offsides. Imagine if it was like futbol (spelling to differentiate American Football) where the line for offsides is entirely dependent on where the last defender is as soon as the ball is kicked. Americans can't seem to grasp that concept, so people would lose their shit if this was applied to hockey.

    Le_Goat on
    While I agree that being insensitive is an issue, so is being oversensitive.
  • twmjrtwmjr Registered User regular
    wunderbar wrote: »
    LD50 wrote: »
    I think the offsides rule is ultimately good, but that its enforcement and definition is too strict. The point of the offsides rule is to give the defending team an advantage by preventing the opposing team from setting up in their zone. A 'close' offsides does not accomplish that. IMO the offsides rule should be adjusted to only take effect in situations where the defending team isn't getting an advantage any longer. It should require much more egregious attacker presence before a play can be called offsides.

    See I don't like this because than you're just moving the blue line and making it a new, subjective, invisible line. If the blue line is not the blue line where is the "line" in which they'll call offside? 1 foot over? 18 inches? Will it be different every day? (yes). Will different officials call that differently? (yes).

    We need to take the subjectivity out of these decisions, not create more.

    my idea: if we *have* to have challenges about offsides is that the refs get one look at the replay. if it isn't obvious enough from a single look, then it couldn't possibly have had any real impact on the play and whatever the call on the ice was stands. leave the option in to fix obvious mistakes by the linesmen, but don't be ridiculous about it.

    Lail
  • Le_GoatLe_Goat Frechified Goat Person BostonRegistered User regular
    twmjr wrote: »
    wunderbar wrote: »
    LD50 wrote: »
    I think the offsides rule is ultimately good, but that its enforcement and definition is too strict. The point of the offsides rule is to give the defending team an advantage by preventing the opposing team from setting up in their zone. A 'close' offsides does not accomplish that. IMO the offsides rule should be adjusted to only take effect in situations where the defending team isn't getting an advantage any longer. It should require much more egregious attacker presence before a play can be called offsides.

    See I don't like this because than you're just moving the blue line and making it a new, subjective, invisible line. If the blue line is not the blue line where is the "line" in which they'll call offside? 1 foot over? 18 inches? Will it be different every day? (yes). Will different officials call that differently? (yes).

    We need to take the subjectivity out of these decisions, not create more.

    my idea: if we *have* to have challenges about offsides is that the refs get one look at the replay. if it isn't obvious enough from a single look, then it couldn't possibly have had any real impact on the play and whatever the call on the ice was stands. leave the option in to fix obvious mistakes by the linesmen, but don't be ridiculous about it.
    I'd be okay with this as an option as well:

    While I agree that being insensitive is an issue, so is being oversensitive.
  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    Am I wrong that Toronto is making all the calls on replays/challenges during the playoffs? So, ultimately, the refs on the ice are just looking at the replay to confirm what they saw at full speed was, indeed, correct.

    I agree with the sentiment about this, and something should be at least discussed re: offsides. That being said, specific to the call in question, PIT immediately challenged, so their own crew believed there was a reason to do so. It's going to be argued for eternity whether this was used as a timeout for PIT so they could regroup.

    Also, tell me if I'm wrong, but do you not lose your timeout for the game if you get a challenge wrong? Because I remember the announcers mentioning that later in the game. (i.e. "PIT got the offsides call right, so they still have their timeout to use if they need it here") If that's the case, then, yes, the "League" has recognized that coaches will use the review as a de facto timeout.

  • wunderbarwunderbar What Have I Done? Registered User regular
    Mugsley wrote: »
    Am I wrong that Toronto is making all the calls on replays/challenges during the playoffs? So, ultimately, the refs on the ice are just looking at the replay to confirm what they saw at full speed was, indeed, correct.

    I agree with the sentiment about this, and something should be at least discussed re: offsides. That being said, specific to the call in question, PIT immediately challenged, so their own crew believed there was a reason to do so. It's going to be argued for eternity whether this was used as a timeout for PIT so they could regroup.

    Also, tell me if I'm wrong, but do you not lose your timeout for the game if you get a challenge wrong? Because I remember the announcers mentioning that later in the game. (i.e. "PIT got the offsides call right, so they still have their timeout to use if they need it here") If that's the case, then, yes, the "League" has recognized that coaches will use the review as a de facto timeout.

    there are two types of reviews. A Coach's challenge and an official review.

    Coaches can challenge two things. One is goaltender interference, the other is offside. If a coach loses that review, they lose their timeout. If they do not have a timeout, they cannot challenge a play. On a coach's challenge, the on ice officials make the final call. For goalie inerference, the referees do, for offside, the linesmen do. They talk to Toronto, but at the end the guys on the ice make the call.

    All other types of reviews (i.e. did the puck go in, was it kicked in, etc) are all initiated by the league office in Toronto, and the final decisions there are made by the people in Toronto.

    XBL: thewunderbar PSN: thewunderbar NNID: thewunderbar Steam: wunderbar87 Twitter: wunderbar
    Le_Goat
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
  • Le_GoatLe_Goat Frechified Goat Person BostonRegistered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    That looked painful :-/
    Wait, the cross check to the back of the head or the near point black slapshot to the ankle? Both I'd still agree with either

    While I agree that being insensitive is an issue, so is being oversensitive.
    chromdom
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Le_Goat wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »
    That looked painful :-/
    Wait, the cross check to the back of the head or the near point black slapshot to the ankle? Both I'd still agree with either

    More the way he went down after the slapshot to the ankle.

  • quovadis13quovadis13 Registered User regular
    Man, Pittsburgh is playing awful, nowhere near the 5 goals they scored after this many shots in game 1.

  • ChanusChanus Sugoi! ^_____^Registered User regular
    quovadis13 wrote: »
    Man, Pittsburgh is playing awful, nowhere near the 5 goals they scored after this many shots in game 1.

    it feels like every team in the playoffs this year has done this good game/shit game thing

    it's weird and boring

    **Winner Softest and Most Comfy Hugs Award Summer 2018**

    Blueberrywerewlf on the Sony Anime Games Box | BluberryWerewlf on the BroBone
  • facetiousfacetious a wit so dry it shits sandRegistered User regular
    HOW IS JAKE GUENTZEL SO GOOD?

    "I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde
    Real strong, facetious.

    Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
    JragghenShadowhopeMugsley
  • quovadis13quovadis13 Registered User regular
    If Nashville wants to win the Cup, they should stop scoring on their own net.


    Also, that escalated quickly

    JragghenLe_GoatMagell
  • Le_GoatLe_Goat Frechified Goat Person BostonRegistered User regular
    I go change the laundry and two goals are scored?

    While I agree that being insensitive is an issue, so is being oversensitive.
  • MagellMagell Sphinx! Parts UnknownRegistered User regular
    Pekke Rinne has fallen off sharply in this series. I hope the Predators can pull it together at home.

    Le_Goat
  • quovadis13quovadis13 Registered User regular
    You won the symbolic victory Nashville!

  • facetiousfacetious a wit so dry it shits sandRegistered User regular
    Magell wrote: »
    Pekke Rinne has fallen off sharply in this series. I hope the Predators can pull it together at home.

    I don't think it can be understated here that he's also playing, by a pretty significant margin, the best offensive team in the league. For all that they have played below-average in these first two games, their striking ability is unparalleled in the league right now.

    "I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde
    Real strong, facetious.

    Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    facetious wrote: »
    HOW IS JAKE GUENTZEL SO GOOD?
    I honestly think that he has an outside shot at winning the Conn Smyth if the Penguins win.

    Dinosaurs were made up by the CIA to discourage time travel.
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    I admittedly haven't watched a ton of Nashville, but Rinne strikes me as a goalie who lives and dies by his defense - he's solid, but doesnt have the "stand on your head" games, and Nashville's defense is usually so strong that what shots he faces are rarely tough ones.

    If the defense breaks down, he doesn't do as well.

    Meanwhile, Murray can stand on his head, so the Pens live through their defense not being great due to injuries and what have you.

  • Le_GoatLe_Goat Frechified Goat Person BostonRegistered User regular
    Murray is just on fire right now. It's impressive

    While I agree that being insensitive is an issue, so is being oversensitive.
  • wunderbarwunderbar What Have I Done? Registered User regular
    the second best team through 2 games is about to be 2-0.

    XBL: thewunderbar PSN: thewunderbar NNID: thewunderbar Steam: wunderbar87 Twitter: wunderbar
    Le_Goat
  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited June 2017
    Le_Goat wrote: »
    Murray is just on fire right now. It's impressive

    It's funny, cause he, like the rest of the team, was awful in game one.

    I don't think he's had back to back sub .900 games in the playoffs. Every time he has a bad game he bounces back impressivly

    Burtletoy on
  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    Jake Guentzel is now only 3 goals away from eclipsing Dino Ciccarelli for most goals by a rookie in the playoffs. And that's after playing an entire 7-game series without a goal.

    I'm nearly certain that Ciccarelli did it on fewer games/rounds, but Guentzel's still having an amazing postseason.


    Re: Defense, I don't have the time to look back on the games, but is Pittsburgh playing an offensive strategy that is pushing the Nashville defense into/on top of Rinne, that could be part of the reason for the multiple own-goals?


    Also, guys like Troy Aikman and [all of baseball color commentary] should take note on how Eddie Olczyk is commenting this series. He's pointing out the subtle strategy changes (i.e. PIT dumping pucks into the corners so Rinne can't play them; the rotations both teams use when their Defenses pinch in) and clearly explaining them. It's to the point, for me, that I'm starting to finally see the larger picture of how those changes are affecting overall gameplay.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Dino never won a Cup and I think only played in the '95 finals when he was old.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    Ciccarelli played in the finals in his rookie year, but they lost in 5 to the islanders. 14 goals in 19 games.

    Guentzel is at 12 goals in 21 games. Shooting 29%. An improvement from his regular season 20% shooting.

  • quovadis13quovadis13 Registered User regular
    Did Dino not play with Minnesota when they did their absurd run too?

  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Nashville's crowd really is fun.

    ShadowhopeLe_Goat
  • wunderbarwunderbar What Have I Done? Registered User regular
    Not an ideal start for the Predators.

    XBL: thewunderbar PSN: thewunderbar NNID: thewunderbar Steam: wunderbar87 Twitter: wunderbar
  • quovadis13quovadis13 Registered User regular
    This game sure picked up

  • wunderbarwunderbar What Have I Done? Registered User regular
    wunderbar wrote: »
    Not an ideal start for the Predators.

    Update: game has taken a left turn.

    XBL: thewunderbar PSN: thewunderbar NNID: thewunderbar Steam: wunderbar87 Twitter: wunderbar
  • quovadis13quovadis13 Registered User regular
    This period is tremendous.

  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    Well, tonight should be fun no matter what happens. I haven't checked the injury report; is Bonino out tonight?

  • Le_GoatLe_Goat Frechified Goat Person BostonRegistered User regular
    I am so god damn sick of these coach's challenges.

    While I agree that being insensitive is an issue, so is being oversensitive.
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Man, I don't normally complain about this stuff, but Malkin was hit in the face, while on the ground, after the play was dead, in front of two refs, and no call? Seriously?

  • Le_GoatLe_Goat Frechified Goat Person BostonRegistered User regular
    Wow... just wow... what a big Pekka

    (sorry, had to do it)

    While I agree that being insensitive is an issue, so is being oversensitive.
  • WACriminalWACriminal Dying Is Easy, Young Man Living Is HarderRegistered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Nashville's crowd really is fun.

    We're a fun town.

  • Le_GoatLe_Goat Frechified Goat Person BostonRegistered User regular
    WACriminal wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Nashville's crowd really is fun.

    We're a fun town.
    I'd love to go watch the Bruins play there. Seems like a damn good time.

    While I agree that being insensitive is an issue, so is being oversensitive.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Dammit CBC we do not need Charles Barkley on our hockey broadcasts too.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Aridhol
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