I think our problem before was that we weren't spending enough time on this issue
On the plus side, how much damage can he cause in 24 hours?
Israel has a history of rapidly escalating but quickly resolved wars. 24 hours there can probably do more damage than a week in Saudi Arabia or a month going back and forth between China and South Korea.
Hold on. It's daylong. We're in summer so the day lasts 14 hours or so?
$100 says he leaves a dusk.
I'll go with this bet, the Jewish day changes at sundown, and it is rigidly viewed, especially when it comes to Shabbat.
I'm sure Jared will be able to secure a great deal that makes the 12 days of Carter's Camp David process and the 2 years working on the Oslo Accords look down right embarrassing.
No matter where you go...there you are. ~ Buckaroo Banzai
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
I think our problem before was that we weren't spending enough time on this issue
On the plus side, how much damage can he cause in 24 hours?
Kushner? Likely not much. He's a moron but he's not a Trump-style moron.
Just wait until Netanyahu takes some vague statement of Kushner's as a green light to start some shit with Iran.
I don't see Kushner as that kind of guy and I don't see Bibi as taking him seriously enough to do anything off his say so.
I can easily see Kushner saying something along the lines of Iran being a bad actor and that their influence in the region should be reduced, and Netanyahu then hitting some Revolutionary Guard positions in Iran and using that statement to hook the administration in on the action in the press conference.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
I think our problem before was that we weren't spending enough time on this issue
On the plus side, how much damage can he cause in 24 hours?
Kushner? Likely not much. He's a moron but he's not a Trump-style moron.
Just wait until Netanyahu takes some vague statement of Kushner's as a green light to start some shit with Iran.
I don't see Kushner as that kind of guy and I don't see Bibi as taking him seriously enough to do anything off his say so.
I can easily see Kushner saying something along the lines of Iran being a bad actor and that their influence in the region should be reduced, and Netanyahu then hitting some Revolutionary Guard positions in Iran and using that statement to hook the administration in on the action in the press conference.
I don't think Bibi takes Kusher that seriously. And he shouldn't. No one else does.
Excepting perhaps representatives of corrupt states where the leader's random dopey kids doing official work for them is considered normal business.
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
I think our problem before was that we weren't spending enough time on this issue
On the plus side, how much damage can he cause in 24 hours?
Kushner? Likely not much. He's a moron but he's not a Trump-style moron.
Just wait until Netanyahu takes some vague statement of Kushner's as a green light to start some shit with Iran.
I don't see Kushner as that kind of guy and I don't see Bibi as taking him seriously enough to do anything off his say so.
I can easily see Kushner saying something along the lines of Iran being a bad actor and that their influence in the region should be reduced, and Netanyahu then hitting some Revolutionary Guard positions in Iran and using that statement to hook the administration in on the action in the press conference.
I don't think Bibi takes Kusher that seriously. And he shouldn't. No one else does.
Excepting perhaps representatives of corrupt states where the leader's random dopey kids doing official work for them is considered normal business.
He is a fool who is well out of his depth who also happens to have the trust and ear of a President who is even more foolish and easily swayed by those close to him, and whose country is currently without a functioning State Department. I imagine that Netanyahu is taking Kushner's arrivial very seriously and planning to take full advantage of him.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
I think our problem before was that we weren't spending enough time on this issue
On the plus side, how much damage can he cause in 24 hours?
Kushner? Likely not much. He's a moron but he's not a Trump-style moron.
Just wait until Netanyahu takes some vague statement of Kushner's as a green light to start some shit with Iran.
I don't see Kushner as that kind of guy and I don't see Bibi as taking him seriously enough to do anything off his say so.
I can easily see Kushner saying something along the lines of Iran being a bad actor and that their influence in the region should be reduced, and Netanyahu then hitting some Revolutionary Guard positions in Iran and using that statement to hook the administration in on the action in the press conference.
I don't think Bibi takes Kusher that seriously. And he shouldn't. No one else does.
Excepting perhaps representatives of corrupt states where the leader's random dopey kids doing official work for them is considered normal business.
He is a fool who is well out of his depth who also happens to have the trust and ear of a President who is even more foolish and easily swayed by those close to him, and whose country is currently without a functioning State Department. I imagine that Netanyahu is taking Kushner's arrivial very seriously and planning to take full advantage of him.
Take advantage of him? Yes.
Take him seriously? No.
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lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
edited June 2017
The concern isn't that Bibi will take him serious. The concern is that Bibi will do what he wants to do anyways and just blame it on Kushner.
Please also remember that he's Jewish. I think Orthodox? He's definitely a Zionist. Having him anywhere near the table with this is terrifying.
The al-Hayat report came just days after a meeting between the administration's senior adviser Jared Kushner and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, which was described as "tense" by an Abbas advisor present at the talks.
Abbas was supposedly furious with the president's son-in-law after Kushner relayed Israeli demands to the 81-year-old Palestinian leader which included the immediate halt of payments to terrorists and their families.
Abbas angrily accused Kushner and Trump's lead international negotiator, Jason Greenblatt, of taking Israel's side and refused to commit to the request.
The al-Hayat report came just days after a meeting between the administration's senior adviser Jared Kushner and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, which was described as "tense" by an Abbas advisor present at the talks.
Abbas was supposedly furious with the president's son-in-law after Kushner relayed Israeli demands to the 81-year-old Palestinian leader which included the immediate halt of payments to terrorists and their families.
Abbas angrily accused Kushner and Trump's lead international negotiator, Jason Greenblatt, of taking Israel's side and refused to commit to the request.
Turns out when you're extremely biased towards one side and don't even make an attempt to hide it, the other side doesn't feel like you're operating in good faith.
Turns out when you're extremely biased towards one side and don't even make an attempt to hide it, the other side doesn't feel like you're operating in good faith.
I don't know if I'm more disappointed in the idiots sent to sort this, or the idiots dealing with them.
That said, attacking Trump is probably as easy target and one that's going to get support wherever. Just disappointed that people like Kushner and Trump, with honestly nothing to lose couldn't get some kind of bullshit PR peace to be declared - this isn't something they're going to fix, but they could have laid the groundwork for sorting something out.
I don't know if I'm more disappointed in the idiots sent to sort this, or the idiots dealing with them.
That said, attacking Trump is probably as easy target and one that's going to get support wherever. Just disappointed that people like Kushner and Trump, with honestly nothing to lose couldn't get some kind of bullshit PR peace to be declared - this isn't something they're going to fix, but they could have laid the groundwork for sorting something out.
There's nothing quite so peaceful as a vast and empty wasteland devoid of life.
Abbas claimed that Israel is using the issue of payments to terrorists and their families as a pretext to avoid entering peace-talks, saying that the payments are a part of the Palestinian government's "social responsibility."
Well, I'm probably missing context, but giving money to terrorists and their families IS a deal breaker on any negotiations between countries so don't see why is bad that Kushner tells Abbas that.
Abbas claimed that Israel is using the issue of payments to terrorists and their families as a pretext to avoid entering peace-talks, saying that the payments are a part of the Palestinian government's "social responsibility."
Well, I'm probably missing context, but giving money to terrorists and their families IS a deal breaker on any negotiations between countries so don't see why is bad that Kushner tells Abbas that.
It's going to be difficult to convince the PLO that they should stop payments for members of the cause in order to fix their situation with Israel. I imagine that is asking a lot ideologically.
Additionally Abbas likely wants to prevent another civil war between the different Palestinian factions. So I imagine it's putting him in a place where he has to choose between possible, but unlikely, peace with Israel that Israel can, and has, backed out of at any time or a civil war that will very likely happen.
Abbas claimed that Israel is using the issue of payments to terrorists and their families as a pretext to avoid entering peace-talks, saying that the payments are a part of the Palestinian government's "social responsibility."
Well, I'm probably missing context, but giving money to terrorists and their families IS a deal breaker on any negotiations between countries so don't see why is bad that Kushner tells Abbas that.
It's going to be difficult to convince the PLO that they should stop payments for members of the cause in order to fix their situation with Israel. I imagine that is asking a lot ideologically.
Additionally Abbas likely wants to prevent another civil war between the different Palestinian factions. So I imagine it's putting him in a place where he has to choose between possible, but unlikely, peace with Israel that Israel can, and has, backed out of at any time or a civil war that will very likely happen.
Turns out when you're extremely biased towards one side and don't even make an attempt to hide it, the other side doesn't feel like you're operating in good faith.
Abbas claimed that Israel is using the issue of payments to terrorists and their families as a pretext to avoid entering peace-talks, saying that the payments are a part of the Palestinian government's "social responsibility."
Well, I'm probably missing context, but giving money to terrorists and their families IS a deal breaker on any negotiations between countries so don't see why is bad that Kushner tells Abbas that.
It's going to be difficult to convince the PLO that they should stop payments for members of the cause in order to fix their situation with Israel. I imagine that is asking a lot ideologically.
Additionally Abbas likely wants to prevent another civil war between the different Palestinian factions. So I imagine it's putting him in a place where he has to choose between possible, but unlikely, peace with Israel that Israel can, and has, backed out of at any time or a civil war that will very likely happen.
Abbas claimed that Israel is using the issue of payments to terrorists and their families as a pretext to avoid entering peace-talks, saying that the payments are a part of the Palestinian government's "social responsibility."
Well, I'm probably missing context, but giving money to terrorists and their families IS a deal breaker on any negotiations between countries so don't see why is bad that Kushner tells Abbas that.
It's going to be difficult to convince the PLO that they should stop payments for members of the cause in order to fix their situation with Israel. I imagine that is asking a lot ideologically.
Additionally Abbas likely wants to prevent another civil war between the different Palestinian factions. So I imagine it's putting him in a place where he has to choose between possible, but unlikely, peace with Israel that Israel can, and has, backed out of at any time or a civil war that will very likely happen.
Well it's not completely fucked. It would require Israel to come to the table in good faith, which while improbable is possible.
I view it as a situation of two parties caught in a situation where they feel they are facing an existential threat and too much lenience towards the other will result in destruction. And it's not really unfounded. From the Palestinian perspective they have been pushed out of their historical homes and Israel has continually encroached on the territory in the West Bank (which Israel likely views as a security issue as the settlements tend to center around fresh water sources that flow into Israel) and has blocked imports into Gaza of dual use materials that would help with things like sewage management and water purification. From the Israeli perspective every one of their neighbors was out to destroy them, and attempted to, until they proved they were strong enough to prevent it.
Abbas claimed that Israel is using the issue of payments to terrorists and their families as a pretext to avoid entering peace-talks, saying that the payments are a part of the Palestinian government's "social responsibility."
Well, I'm probably missing context, but giving money to terrorists and their families IS a deal breaker on any negotiations between countries so don't see why is bad that Kushner tells Abbas that.
It's going to be difficult to convince the PLO that they should stop payments for members of the cause in order to fix their situation with Israel. I imagine that is asking a lot ideologically.
Additionally Abbas likely wants to prevent another civil war between the different Palestinian factions. So I imagine it's putting him in a place where he has to choose between possible, but unlikely, peace with Israel that Israel can, and has, backed out of at any time or a civil war that will very likely happen.
Well it's not completely fucked. It would require Israel to come to the table in good faith, which while improbable is possible.
I view it as a situation of two parties caught in a situation where they feel they are facing an existential threat and too much lenience towards the other will result in destruction. And it's not really unfounded. From the Palestinian perspective they have been pushed out of their historical homes and Israel has continually encroached on the territory in the West Bank (which Israel likely views as a security issue as the settlements tend to center around fresh water sources that flow into Israel) and has blocked imports into Gaza of dual use materials that would help with things like sewage management and water purification. From the Israeli perspective every one of their neighbors was out to destroy them, and attempted to, until they proved they were strong enough to prevent it.
It's more that Israel is unwilling to give up their expansionist goals due to various internal political reasons and so the process is fundamentally unworkable.
Both sides refuse to cease doing things the other side considers to then be an absolute deal-breaker in any negotiation
The reason I tend to look a lot longer and harder at Israel is because the IDF kills a lot more Palestinians than Palestinians kill IDF troops or Israeli citizens, and the IDF has the Gaza Strip bottled up into a horrible urban sink situation which nobody should be living in.
Israel is always going to have to give more for the negotiations to go anywhere because the Palestinians don't really have anything to give? Like, they're being driven crazy in there. Israel's Palestinian policy is... pretty disgusting to put it lightly.
That western nations are so basically okay with it is also pretty disgusting
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
The al-Hayat report came just days after a meeting between the administration's senior adviser Jared Kushner and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, which was described as "tense" by an Abbas advisor present at the talks.
Abbas was supposedly furious with the president's son-in-law after Kushner relayed Israeli demands to the 81-year-old Palestinian leader which included the immediate halt of payments to terrorists and their families.
Abbas angrily accused Kushner and Trump's lead international negotiator, Jason Greenblatt, of taking Israel's side and refused to commit to the request.
Kushner shits the bed.
This is my shocked face
Like, on one hand, to be fair talking about anything in the Middle East is difficult as fuck because some of those assholes have high standards of what it means to negotiate (in this instance, "you mentioned something they want, therefore you're part of the problem").
On the other hand, yeah, Kushner shit the bed and probably had advisors trying to explain "don't do this" to him.
Abbas claimed that Israel is using the issue of payments to terrorists and their families as a pretext to avoid entering peace-talks, saying that the payments are a part of the Palestinian government's "social responsibility."
Well, I'm probably missing context, but giving money to terrorists and their families IS a deal breaker on any negotiations between countries so don't see why is bad that Kushner tells Abbas that.
It's going to be difficult to convince the PLO that they should stop payments for members of the cause in order to fix their situation with Israel. I imagine that is asking a lot ideologically.
Additionally Abbas likely wants to prevent another civil war between the different Palestinian factions. So I imagine it's putting him in a place where he has to choose between possible, but unlikely, peace with Israel that Israel can, and has, backed out of at any time or a civil war that will very likely happen.
Well it's not completely fucked. It would require Israel to come to the table in good faith, which while improbable is possible.
I view it as a situation of two parties caught in a situation where they feel they are facing an existential threat and too much lenience towards the other will result in destruction. And it's not really unfounded. From the Palestinian perspective they have been pushed out of their historical homes and Israel has continually encroached on the territory in the West Bank (which Israel likely views as a security issue as the settlements tend to center around fresh water sources that flow into Israel) and has blocked imports into Gaza of dual use materials that would help with things like sewage management and water purification. From the Israeli perspective every one of their neighbors was out to destroy them, and attempted to, until they proved they were strong enough to prevent it.
It's more that Israel is unwilling to give up their expansionist goals due to various internal political reasons and so the process is fundamentally unworkable.
A lot of the illegal settlement has been going on around fresh water sources which flow into Israel. Israel has it's own water sanitation issues that are going to lead to the same drinking water crisis the Arabian Peninsula is going to start experiencing, but contamination of fresh water sources going into Israel is a legitimate security concern.
Of course it's tied up in the illegal settlements and very few would care to hear Israel talk about even legitimate security issues at this point.
Abbas claimed that Israel is using the issue of payments to terrorists and their families as a pretext to avoid entering peace-talks, saying that the payments are a part of the Palestinian government's "social responsibility."
Well, I'm probably missing context, but giving money to terrorists and their families IS a deal breaker on any negotiations between countries so don't see why is bad that Kushner tells Abbas that.
It's going to be difficult to convince the PLO that they should stop payments for members of the cause in order to fix their situation with Israel. I imagine that is asking a lot ideologically.
Additionally Abbas likely wants to prevent another civil war between the different Palestinian factions. So I imagine it's putting him in a place where he has to choose between possible, but unlikely, peace with Israel that Israel can, and has, backed out of at any time or a civil war that will very likely happen.
Well it's not completely fucked. It would require Israel to come to the table in good faith, which while improbable is possible.
I view it as a situation of two parties caught in a situation where they feel they are facing an existential threat and too much lenience towards the other will result in destruction. And it's not really unfounded. From the Palestinian perspective they have been pushed out of their historical homes and Israel has continually encroached on the territory in the West Bank (which Israel likely views as a security issue as the settlements tend to center around fresh water sources that flow into Israel) and has blocked imports into Gaza of dual use materials that would help with things like sewage management and water purification. From the Israeli perspective every one of their neighbors was out to destroy them, and attempted to, until they proved they were strong enough to prevent it.
It's more that Israel is unwilling to give up their expansionist goals due to various internal political reasons and so the process is fundamentally unworkable.
A lot of the illegal settlement has been going on around fresh water sources which flow into Israel. Israel has it's own water sanitation issues that are going to lead to the same drinking water crisis the Arabian Peninsula is going to start experiencing, but contamination of fresh water sources going into Israel is a legitimate security concern.
Of course it's tied up in the illegal settlements and very few would care to hear Israel talk about even legitimate security issues at this point.
It's not about fresh water sources going into Israel, it's about water sources period. They are securing the best land they can because Israel is an expansionist ethno-nationalist state.
Both sides refuse to cease doing things the other side considers to then be an absolute deal-breaker in any negotiation
The reason I tend to look a lot longer and harder at Israel is because the IDF kills a lot more Palestinians than Palestinians kill IDF troops or Israeli citizens, and the IDF has the Gaza Strip bottled up into a horrible urban sink situation which nobody should be living in.
Israel is always going to have to give more for the negotiations to go anywhere because the Palestinians don't really have anything to give? Like, they're being driven crazy in there. Israel's Palestinian policy is... pretty disgusting to put it lightly.
That western nations are so basically okay with it is also pretty disgusting
Israel's Palestinian policy is "slow genocide". The government is perfectly happy with the status quo.
The al-Hayat report came just days after a meeting between the administration's senior adviser Jared Kushner and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, which was described as "tense" by an Abbas advisor present at the talks.
Abbas was supposedly furious with the president's son-in-law after Kushner relayed Israeli demands to the 81-year-old Palestinian leader which included the immediate halt of payments to terrorists and their families.
Abbas angrily accused Kushner and Trump's lead international negotiator, Jason Greenblatt, of taking Israel's side and refused to commit to the request.
Kushner shits the bed.
This is my shocked face
Like, on one hand, to be fair talking about anything in the Middle East is difficult as fuck because some of those assholes have high standards of what it means to negotiate (in this instance, "you mentioned something they want, therefore you're part of the problem").
On the other hand, yeah, Kushner shit the bed and probably had advisors trying to explain "don't do this" to him.
I mean, failing to bring about peace isn't a failure per se, sure, that's been status quo forever.
Allocating a whopping 24 hours for the boy wonder to solve an issue that has plagued countless policy makers for decades? Yeah that's just fucking stupid, and sure enough he didn't do shit.
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*shudder*
This is tempting fate
Israel has a history of rapidly escalating but quickly resolved wars. 24 hours there can probably do more damage than a week in Saudi Arabia or a month going back and forth between China and South Korea.
Hold on. It's daylong. We're in summer so the day lasts 14 hours or so?
$100 says he leaves a dusk.
Kushner? Likely not much. He's a moron but he's not a Trump-style moron.
Just wait until Netanyahu takes some vague statement of Kushner's as a green light to start some shit with Iran.
I doubt it will be all that vague.
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I don't see Kushner as that kind of guy and I don't see Bibi as taking him seriously enough to do anything off his say so.
I'll go with this bet, the Jewish day changes at sundown, and it is rigidly viewed, especially when it comes to Shabbat.
I'm sure Jared will be able to secure a great deal that makes the 12 days of Carter's Camp David process and the 2 years working on the Oslo Accords look down right embarrassing.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
I can easily see Kushner saying something along the lines of Iran being a bad actor and that their influence in the region should be reduced, and Netanyahu then hitting some Revolutionary Guard positions in Iran and using that statement to hook the administration in on the action in the press conference.
I don't think Bibi takes Kusher that seriously. And he shouldn't. No one else does.
Excepting perhaps representatives of corrupt states where the leader's random dopey kids doing official work for them is considered normal business.
He is a fool who is well out of his depth who also happens to have the trust and ear of a President who is even more foolish and easily swayed by those close to him, and whose country is currently without a functioning State Department. I imagine that Netanyahu is taking Kushner's arrivial very seriously and planning to take full advantage of him.
Take advantage of him? Yes.
Take him seriously? No.
Please also remember that he's Jewish. I think Orthodox? He's definitely a Zionist. Having him anywhere near the table with this is terrifying.
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Kushner shits the bed.
This is my shocked face
Come on give him a break he's new at this it's his first day!
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You're not talking about foreign policy, are you?
That said, attacking Trump is probably as easy target and one that's going to get support wherever. Just disappointed that people like Kushner and Trump, with honestly nothing to lose couldn't get some kind of bullshit PR peace to be declared - this isn't something they're going to fix, but they could have laid the groundwork for sorting something out.
There's nothing quite so peaceful as a vast and empty wasteland devoid of life.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
It's going to be difficult to convince the PLO that they should stop payments for members of the cause in order to fix their situation with Israel. I imagine that is asking a lot ideologically.
Additionally Abbas likely wants to prevent another civil war between the different Palestinian factions. So I imagine it's putting him in a place where he has to choose between possible, but unlikely, peace with Israel that Israel can, and has, backed out of at any time or a civil war that will very likely happen.
So basically the whole thing is fucked no matter what anybody does. Got it. Though looking at the FB comments, Trump won a lot of admirers for telling Abbas to piss off.
Take it how you will.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Racist gonna racist.
Well it's not completely fucked. It would require Israel to come to the table in good faith, which while improbable is possible.
I view it as a situation of two parties caught in a situation where they feel they are facing an existential threat and too much lenience towards the other will result in destruction. And it's not really unfounded. From the Palestinian perspective they have been pushed out of their historical homes and Israel has continually encroached on the territory in the West Bank (which Israel likely views as a security issue as the settlements tend to center around fresh water sources that flow into Israel) and has blocked imports into Gaza of dual use materials that would help with things like sewage management and water purification. From the Israeli perspective every one of their neighbors was out to destroy them, and attempted to, until they proved they were strong enough to prevent it.
It's more that Israel is unwilling to give up their expansionist goals due to various internal political reasons and so the process is fundamentally unworkable.
The reason I tend to look a lot longer and harder at Israel is because the IDF kills a lot more Palestinians than Palestinians kill IDF troops or Israeli citizens, and the IDF has the Gaza Strip bottled up into a horrible urban sink situation which nobody should be living in.
Israel is always going to have to give more for the negotiations to go anywhere because the Palestinians don't really have anything to give? Like, they're being driven crazy in there. Israel's Palestinian policy is... pretty disgusting to put it lightly.
That western nations are so basically okay with it is also pretty disgusting
On the other hand, yeah, Kushner shit the bed and probably had advisors trying to explain "don't do this" to him.
A lot of the illegal settlement has been going on around fresh water sources which flow into Israel. Israel has it's own water sanitation issues that are going to lead to the same drinking water crisis the Arabian Peninsula is going to start experiencing, but contamination of fresh water sources going into Israel is a legitimate security concern.
Of course it's tied up in the illegal settlements and very few would care to hear Israel talk about even legitimate security issues at this point.
It's not about fresh water sources going into Israel, it's about water sources period. They are securing the best land they can because Israel is an expansionist ethno-nationalist state.
Israel's Palestinian policy is "slow genocide". The government is perfectly happy with the status quo.
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But what do I know, I only have as much experience in the matter as Jared Kushner.
I mean, failing to bring about peace isn't a failure per se, sure, that's been status quo forever.
Allocating a whopping 24 hours for the boy wonder to solve an issue that has plagued countless policy makers for decades? Yeah that's just fucking stupid, and sure enough he didn't do shit.