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Let's Rank Presidents and Argue About American History
enlightenedbum
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I made a thread like this near the start of Obama's term, which I'll link to later. I want to see if our views have differed without confirmation bias. This is also inspired by people asking me if Trump is the worst yet.
Basically the idea here is to rank a top 5 and bottom 5 presidents and I'll compile them all, giving 5 points for a first place vote, 4 points for a second place vote, -5 points for a worst place vote, -4 points for a second worst place vote, etc. Give reasons so we can argue about them and actually have a meaningful thread. What that means is up to you, there are generally two methods people use:
1) President X did things I think were good/bad for the country. For example, you might think that Jackson's ignoring the Supreme Courts to remove the Cherokee to Oklahoma was an abomination so he's near the bottom of the list.
2) President Y was effective in implementing his agenda. For example, you might think that because Jackson was successful in opening up southern land for white settlers like he said he was he was a good President (this view seems more popular with historians than with forum goers).
I'm going to make an executive decision that much like with Obama 8 years ago, we are not going to let Trump be eligible, though you're welcome to note where you'd put him based on the last... 18 weeks. Great.
Summary of the Presidents:
George Washington (1789-1797) (Unaligned, technically) - The first President, unanimously elected by the electoral college. Technically did not join a party, but was generally aligned with the Federalists. Washington put down the Whiskey Rebellion, the first tax revolt in our history. Established how the Presidency works and for better or worse created the two term precedent.
John Adams (1797-1801) (Federalist) - Avoided war with France, signed the Alien and Sedition Acts. Best thing he did was peacefully hand over power to Jefferson after what is still the nastiest campaign in American history.
Thomas Jefferson (1801 - 1809) (Democratic-Republican) - Negotiated the Louisiana Purchase, greatly expanding the US' territorial extent. Banned the importation of slaves, despite continuing to hold his own. Embargoed Great Britain, which hurt the US more than the British.
James Madison (1809 - 1817) (Democratic-Republican) - Fought the War of 1812, to sort of a draw because the British were busy with Napoleon and could only burn down DC.
James Monroe (1817-1825) (Democratic-Republican) - Presided over the "Era of Good Feelings" and was largely unopposed for re-election. Signed the Missouri Compromise with regards to slavery. Acquired Florida from Spain and fishing rights in the northwest. Proclaimed the United States' protection for the newly independent countries of South America. Created colonies for freed slaves in America, which would eventually become the nation of Liberia.
John Quincy Adams (1825-1829) (Democratic-Republican) - Was, vitally, Not
Andrew Jackson. Tried to get infrastructure improvements but Congress largely rejected them.
Andrew Jackson (1829-1837) (Democratic) - Crushed South Carolina's first attempt at insurrection, which was led by his Vice President, John C. Calhoun. Ended the Bank of the United States, leading to economic problems for his successor. Ignored the Supreme Court's ruling in Worcester v. Georgia to remove Cherokees from Georgia, in addition to various other Indian Removal actions. Created the spoils system, where positions in the federal government explicitly went to political backers rather than professional bureaucrats.
Martin Van Buren (1837-1841) - Spent most of his time dealing with the Panic of 1837, which was pretty obviously Jackson's fault. Denied Texas' first application to join the union.
William Henry Harrison (1841) (Whig) - Died a month into his presidency. @moniker argues persuasively that he should then be the baseline of competence. The goal here is to be better than Harrison.
John Tyler (1841-1845) (Whig, but kicked out) - Established the precedent that upon the
President's death the VP takes over, which was not constitutional until the twenty-fifth amendment. Annexed Texas. Settled the borders of Maine with Britain.
James K Polk (1845-1849) (Democratic) - Fought the Mexican War, conquering most of what we know as the American Southwest from Mexico. Resolved the border dispute with the British colonies in the northwest. Was strongly pro-slavery and pro-Southern.
Zachary Taylor (1849-1850) (Whig) - Honestly, didn't do much. Was a slaveowner who tried to prevent the expansion of slavery in the territories and pursued legislative compromises to put off the inevitable crisis. Died early.
Millard Fillmore (1850-1853) (Whig) - Signed the Compromise of 1850 and enforced the Fugitive Slave Act despite disagreeing with it. Sent the Perry Expedition to Japan, opening it up to trade with the west.
Franklin Pierce (1853-1857) (Democratic) - Signed the Kansas-Nebraska Act, leading to violence among slaveholders and abolitionists in the territory. Failed to win his party's nomination for re-election.
James Buchanan (1857-1861) (Democratic) - Endorsed the Dred Scott decision. Failed to respond to southern states seceding after the election of Lincoln.
Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865) (Republican) - Led the Union in the Civil War. Freed the slaves. Signed the Morill Act creating the land grant colleges. Advocated a charitable peace with the rebellious south. Was assassinated by a southern radical anyway.
Andrew Johnson (1865-1869) (Democratic) - Lincoln's biggest mistake. Favored an even more charitable peace with the south. Failed to protect freed slaves. Was impeached, though not removed (by a single vote).
Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877) (Republican) - Was the most racially progressive President until probably LBJ (Truman has an argument). Fought for the rights of the freed slaves, including the 15th Amendment and the Civil Rights Act of 1875. Created the Department of Justice, largely to combat the KKK. Established Yellowstone. His administration had corruption issues. Was unfairly tarred by the Dunning School for almost a century as corrupt and inept.
Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881) (Republican) - Won the Presidency in a contested election in exchange for a premature end of Reconstruction, which he did, leading to southern Democrats seizing power and functionally ending the protections gained by freed slaves. Used federal soldiers to break striking railroad workers.
James Garfield (1881) (Republican) - A polymath with a new and unique proof of the Pythagorean Theorem to his credit. Hoped to created a universal education system and reform the civil service, but was shot four months into his term and died eleven weeks after that.
Chester A. Arthur (1881-1885) (Republican) - Took over for Garfield and successfully passed his ideas for civil service reform (the Pendleton Act). Fought with Congress about Chinese immigration, ultimately signing the Chinese Exclusion Act with a compromise of a 10 year ban rather than the previous 20.
Grover Cleveland (1885-1889, 1893-1897) (Democratic) - Only person to serve split terms, which I almost guarantee is the only thing you know about him. Intervened in the Pullman Strike in 1894 and generally favored pro-business policies. Was a political reformer widely respected as honest.
Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893) (Republican) - Protectionist trade policy and made the first token attempts to break up the massive trusts of the late 19th century. Failed to create a federal education system or secure rights for African-Americans.
William McKinley (1897-1901) (Republican) - Imperialist who annexed Hawaii and fought the Spanish-American war for the Philippines, Spanish islands in the western Pacific, Cuba, and Puerto Rico. Assassinated by an anarchist in 1901.
Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909) (Republican) - Expanded the Monroe Doctrine to basically say the Western Hemisphere was an American playground. Forced the independence of Panama to build the Canal. Was a reformer who broke up monopolistic trusts. Conservationist who protected immense amounts of land and made them national parks and forests. Passed the "Square Deal," creating the FDA, among other things.
William Howard Taft (1909-1913) (Republican) - Even more a trustbuster than Roosevelt. Continued American imperialism in Latin America. Kind of hated the job and was much happier when he became Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. Lost re-election when Roosevelt decided he wanted to be President again, splitting the Republican Party.
Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921) (Democratic) - Kept the US out of World War 1... until he didn't. Created the Federal Reserve and FTC. Segregated the federal government, loved Birth of a Nation. Asked for and got the Espionage and Sedition Acts from Congress, which were used to crack down on war protesters. Personally went to Paris to negotiate the Treaty of Versailles and advocated for the League of Nations, only to see ratification defeated by the Senate while he was debilitated by a stroke.
(We're not counting Edith Wilson, though she was sort of President because of said stroke)
Warren Harding (1921-1923) (Republican) - Most famous for the Teapot Dome scandal. Was generally inept and corrupt. He did reverse some of the worst parts of Wilson's race politics. The Washington Naval Conference, limiting naval power (somewhat hypocritically, with the Great Powers getting more than everyone else, as usual), happened under his watch. Died early. Wrote filthy love letters to his mistresses.
Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929) (Republican) - Did very little while the economy boomed on speculation. Did advocate for anti-lynching bills and granted citizenship to Native Americans.
Herbert Hoover (1929-1933) (Republican) - Firmly believed in laissez faire economics, to the point of doing nothing while the Great Depression gripped the nation. Signed the Smoot-Hawley Tarriff, which made things even worse.
Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945) (Democratic) - Was President during two great crises: the Great Depression and World War 2. His response to the Depression was an almost polar opposite of Hoover's. If Hoover did nothing, FDR tried everything. Government spending increased dramatically following the ideas of Keynes. The biggest legacies here are probably Social Security and the Tennessee Valley Authority. Attempted to pack the courts, sparking outrage (but ultimately cowing the courts). Listened to deficit hawks after the 1936 elections, leading to a economic downturn. Guided American sentiment slowly towards intervention in the growing European and Asian wars, pushing as hard as he could for support to China, the UK, and the Soviet Union. After Pearl Harbor guided the war effort as the entire nation mobilized for the war. Died just before the surrender of Europe in May 1945. Only President to serve more than two terms.
Harry S. Truman (1945-1953) (Democratic) - Managed the end of WW2 after FDR's death. Made the decision to drop atomic weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Launched the Marshall Plan. Integrated the armed forces. Spearheaded the creation of NATO. Guided the US into the Korean War.
Dwight Eisenhower (1953-1961) (Republican) - Elected to end American involvement in Korea, which he did. Pushed for the Interstate Highway System, started NASA as a response to the Sputnik launch. Sent federal troops to Little Rock to enforce Brown v. Board of Education. Passed the first Civil Rights Acts since 1875. Ordered a CIA coup in Iran that would have... repercussions.
John F. Kennedy (1961-1963) (Democratic) - Promised an American would land on the moon by 1970. Launched the Bay of Pigs invasion, but refused to allow false-flag attacks to create an excuse for outright war with Cuba. Negotiated an end to the Cuban Missile Crisis rather than launch an invasion. Escalated American presence in Vietnam. Legislative agenda largely stalled. Assassinated in Dallas.
Lyndon Johnson (1963-1969) (Democratic) - Passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Voting Rights Act of 1965, and Fair Housing Act, the civil rights movements largest gains. Created Medicare and Medicaid, the first meaningful steps towards providing healthcare to Americans after 60 years of various attempts. Dramatically lowered poverty rates, especially among the elderly. Dramatically escalated the Vietnam War, first launching bombing campaigns, then sending ground troops. Presidential warmaking powers dramatically expanded under his watch. Eventually the war destroyed his popularity among his political base and he declined to seek the Democratic nomination in 1968.
Richard Nixon (1969-1974) (Republican) - Paranoid megalomaniac who believed only he could navigate America's transition to a world where it was not overwhelmingly powerful. Signed a number of progressive pieces of legislation passed by overwhelming Democratic majorities. Political genius who created the modern Republican party by exploiting fissures created by race. Started the war on drugs. Primarily focused on foreign affairs, in particular using the People's Republic of China as a weapon against the Soviet Union. Worked for arms control with the Soviet Union. Secretly expanded the Vietnam War while promising he would end it. Bombed neutral nations. Authorized the political sabotage of the Democratic Party in the 1972 election and was prominently involved in covering up said sabotage, particularly the break-in at the Watergate Hotel. Ultimately was forced to resign in disgrace in August of 1974 to avoid impeachment and removal from office.
Gerald Ford (1974-1977) (Republican) - The only President to not be elected to either the Presidency or Vice Presidency, he was appointed by Nixon when Spiro Agnew resigned as a result of a bribery scandal from his time as an elected official in Maryland. He pardoned Nixon for his crimes before any trial occurred. Pursued détente with the USSR. Withdrew from Vietnam. Combated inflation during his presidency, mostly unsuccessfully. Played "The Victors" instead of "Hail to the Chief."
Jimmy Carter (1977-1981) (Democratic) - Was more conservative than his Democratic Congress, leading to several fights (especially over health care) and a primary challenge from the left by Ted Kennedy. Experienced some success in foreign policy, in particular the Camp David Accords. Handled the Iranian Hostage Crisis with middling success. Was ahead of his times with regards to the environmental movement.
Ronald Reagan (1981-1989) (Republican) - Pushed the Republican Party and the country towards supply side economics. Massive military spending. Hated the Soviet Union but did negotiate some arms control treaties with it. Invaded Grenada. Should have been destroyed by the Iran-Contra scandal. Escalated the war on drugs. Reshaped the federal judiciary with conservatives.
George HW Bush (1989-1993) (Republican) - Raised taxes, infuriating his base. Intervened in the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait and decided not to occupy Iraq and overthrow its dictator. Oversaw the end of the Cold War, the reunification of Germany, and the breakup of the Soviet Union. Negotiated NAFTA.
Bill Clinton (1993-2001) (Democratic) - Compromised with an increasingly radical Republican Congress. Dramatically reformed welfare (to be less generous). Signed a crime bill that increased incarceration rates, by large amounts. Failed to get a health care plan through Congress. Was dogged by (mostly fake) scandals throughout his term, ultimately leading to his impeachment for lying about sexual relations with a White House intern. Ratified NAFTA. Involved the US in peacekeeping missions in the Balkans. Helped guide the peace process in Ireland. Focused on the threat of terrorism.
George W. Bush (2001-2009) (Republican) - Elected at a time when politics felt like it didn't matter, he saw the 9/11 attacks happen on his watch, leading to his term being dominated by the response. Invaded Afghanistan for harboring Osama bin Laden and his Al Qaeda network. Invaded Iraq based on lies a year and a half later. Fucked up the occupation of Iraq. Signed an education reform bill, No Child Left Behind. Continued Republican supply side policies as a bubble formed. Bailed out the banks when the economy crashed, with little to no oversight. Appointed a crony to lead FEMA with disastrous consequences for New Orleans. Removed, attacked, and ended regulations designed to protect workers. Instituted torture of detainees. Campaigned on discrimination against gay Americans. Did do some good things for Africa, particularly PEPFAR.
Barack Obama (2009-2017) (Democratic) - The second man to be world historical merely for being elected (joining Washington). First African-American President. Pushed for and passed the Affordable Care Act, American's first theoretically universal health care plan. Dramatically lowered the rate at which Americans are uninsured. Oversaw a slow but ultimately positive economic recovery. Ended discrimination against gays in the military and oversaw the legalization of gay marriage. Had a terrible education policy, overly focused on privatizing "reformers." Negotiated the first successful worldwide agreement to combat climate change. Authorized the mission that killed Osama bin Laden. Used air power and special forces against a number of Middle Eastern countries. Resisted sending ground troops to anywhere other than Afghanistan, particularly in Libya and Syria where he faced a lot of such pressure. Normalized relations with Cuba.
Vladimir Putin Donald Trump (2017-) (Republican) - We have enough threads about this asshole. Let's ignore him here.
Standings (first place votes in parentheses)
Best
1. Lincoln (10) - 73 points
2. Washington (3) - 53 points
3. FDR (2) - 40 points
4. Teddy Roosevelt - 27 points
5. LBJ (1) - 16 points
6. Obama - 7 points
7. Eisenhower - 6 points
8. James Monroe - 5 points
8. Jefferson - 5 points
10. Truman - 3 point
11. HW Bush - 1 point
Worst
1. Buchanan (-5) - -62 points
2. Jackson (-7) - -58 points
3. Nixon (-3) - -52 points
4. Andrew Johnson (-1) - -29 points
5. George W. Bush - -22 points
6. Reagan - -14 points
7. Gerald Ford (-1) - -5 points
7. Hoover - -5 point
9. Wilson - - 4 points
9. Harding - -4 points
9. Hayes - -4 point
12. Pierce - -3 points
13. Kennedy - -2 points
14. Trump - -1 point (despite my request to not include him!)
14. John Adams - -1 point
Unranked:
Madison
John Quincy Adams
Van Buren
William Henry Harrison
Tyler
Polk
Taylor
Fillmore
Pierce
Grant
Garfield
Arthur
Cleveland
Benjamin Harrison
McKinley
Taft
Coolidge
Carter
Clinton
Basically the idea here is to rank a top 5 and bottom 5 presidents and I'll compile them all, giving 5 points for a first place vote, 4 points for a second place vote, -5 points for a worst place vote, -4 points for a second worst place vote, etc. Give reasons so we can argue about them and actually have a meaningful thread. What that means is up to you, there are generally two methods people use:
1) President X did things I think were good/bad for the country. For example, you might think that Jackson's ignoring the Supreme Courts to remove the Cherokee to Oklahoma was an abomination so he's near the bottom of the list.
2) President Y was effective in implementing his agenda. For example, you might think that because Jackson was successful in opening up southern land for white settlers like he said he was he was a good President (this view seems more popular with historians than with forum goers).
I'm going to make an executive decision that much like with Obama 8 years ago, we are not going to let Trump be eligible, though you're welcome to note where you'd put him based on the last... 18 weeks. Great.
Summary of the Presidents:
George Washington (1789-1797) (Unaligned, technically) - The first President, unanimously elected by the electoral college. Technically did not join a party, but was generally aligned with the Federalists. Washington put down the Whiskey Rebellion, the first tax revolt in our history. Established how the Presidency works and for better or worse created the two term precedent.
John Adams (1797-1801) (Federalist) - Avoided war with France, signed the Alien and Sedition Acts. Best thing he did was peacefully hand over power to Jefferson after what is still the nastiest campaign in American history.
Thomas Jefferson (1801 - 1809) (Democratic-Republican) - Negotiated the Louisiana Purchase, greatly expanding the US' territorial extent. Banned the importation of slaves, despite continuing to hold his own. Embargoed Great Britain, which hurt the US more than the British.
James Madison (1809 - 1817) (Democratic-Republican) - Fought the War of 1812, to sort of a draw because the British were busy with Napoleon and could only burn down DC.
James Monroe (1817-1825) (Democratic-Republican) - Presided over the "Era of Good Feelings" and was largely unopposed for re-election. Signed the Missouri Compromise with regards to slavery. Acquired Florida from Spain and fishing rights in the northwest. Proclaimed the United States' protection for the newly independent countries of South America. Created colonies for freed slaves in America, which would eventually become the nation of Liberia.
John Quincy Adams (1825-1829) (Democratic-Republican) - Was, vitally, Not
Andrew Jackson. Tried to get infrastructure improvements but Congress largely rejected them.
Andrew Jackson (1829-1837) (Democratic) - Crushed South Carolina's first attempt at insurrection, which was led by his Vice President, John C. Calhoun. Ended the Bank of the United States, leading to economic problems for his successor. Ignored the Supreme Court's ruling in Worcester v. Georgia to remove Cherokees from Georgia, in addition to various other Indian Removal actions. Created the spoils system, where positions in the federal government explicitly went to political backers rather than professional bureaucrats.
Martin Van Buren (1837-1841) - Spent most of his time dealing with the Panic of 1837, which was pretty obviously Jackson's fault. Denied Texas' first application to join the union.
William Henry Harrison (1841) (Whig) - Died a month into his presidency. @moniker argues persuasively that he should then be the baseline of competence. The goal here is to be better than Harrison.
John Tyler (1841-1845) (Whig, but kicked out) - Established the precedent that upon the
President's death the VP takes over, which was not constitutional until the twenty-fifth amendment. Annexed Texas. Settled the borders of Maine with Britain.
James K Polk (1845-1849) (Democratic) - Fought the Mexican War, conquering most of what we know as the American Southwest from Mexico. Resolved the border dispute with the British colonies in the northwest. Was strongly pro-slavery and pro-Southern.
Zachary Taylor (1849-1850) (Whig) - Honestly, didn't do much. Was a slaveowner who tried to prevent the expansion of slavery in the territories and pursued legislative compromises to put off the inevitable crisis. Died early.
Millard Fillmore (1850-1853) (Whig) - Signed the Compromise of 1850 and enforced the Fugitive Slave Act despite disagreeing with it. Sent the Perry Expedition to Japan, opening it up to trade with the west.
Franklin Pierce (1853-1857) (Democratic) - Signed the Kansas-Nebraska Act, leading to violence among slaveholders and abolitionists in the territory. Failed to win his party's nomination for re-election.
James Buchanan (1857-1861) (Democratic) - Endorsed the Dred Scott decision. Failed to respond to southern states seceding after the election of Lincoln.
Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865) (Republican) - Led the Union in the Civil War. Freed the slaves. Signed the Morill Act creating the land grant colleges. Advocated a charitable peace with the rebellious south. Was assassinated by a southern radical anyway.
Andrew Johnson (1865-1869) (Democratic) - Lincoln's biggest mistake. Favored an even more charitable peace with the south. Failed to protect freed slaves. Was impeached, though not removed (by a single vote).
Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877) (Republican) - Was the most racially progressive President until probably LBJ (Truman has an argument). Fought for the rights of the freed slaves, including the 15th Amendment and the Civil Rights Act of 1875. Created the Department of Justice, largely to combat the KKK. Established Yellowstone. His administration had corruption issues. Was unfairly tarred by the Dunning School for almost a century as corrupt and inept.
Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881) (Republican) - Won the Presidency in a contested election in exchange for a premature end of Reconstruction, which he did, leading to southern Democrats seizing power and functionally ending the protections gained by freed slaves. Used federal soldiers to break striking railroad workers.
James Garfield (1881) (Republican) - A polymath with a new and unique proof of the Pythagorean Theorem to his credit. Hoped to created a universal education system and reform the civil service, but was shot four months into his term and died eleven weeks after that.
Chester A. Arthur (1881-1885) (Republican) - Took over for Garfield and successfully passed his ideas for civil service reform (the Pendleton Act). Fought with Congress about Chinese immigration, ultimately signing the Chinese Exclusion Act with a compromise of a 10 year ban rather than the previous 20.
Grover Cleveland (1885-1889, 1893-1897) (Democratic) - Only person to serve split terms, which I almost guarantee is the only thing you know about him. Intervened in the Pullman Strike in 1894 and generally favored pro-business policies. Was a political reformer widely respected as honest.
Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893) (Republican) - Protectionist trade policy and made the first token attempts to break up the massive trusts of the late 19th century. Failed to create a federal education system or secure rights for African-Americans.
William McKinley (1897-1901) (Republican) - Imperialist who annexed Hawaii and fought the Spanish-American war for the Philippines, Spanish islands in the western Pacific, Cuba, and Puerto Rico. Assassinated by an anarchist in 1901.
Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909) (Republican) - Expanded the Monroe Doctrine to basically say the Western Hemisphere was an American playground. Forced the independence of Panama to build the Canal. Was a reformer who broke up monopolistic trusts. Conservationist who protected immense amounts of land and made them national parks and forests. Passed the "Square Deal," creating the FDA, among other things.
William Howard Taft (1909-1913) (Republican) - Even more a trustbuster than Roosevelt. Continued American imperialism in Latin America. Kind of hated the job and was much happier when he became Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. Lost re-election when Roosevelt decided he wanted to be President again, splitting the Republican Party.
Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921) (Democratic) - Kept the US out of World War 1... until he didn't. Created the Federal Reserve and FTC. Segregated the federal government, loved Birth of a Nation. Asked for and got the Espionage and Sedition Acts from Congress, which were used to crack down on war protesters. Personally went to Paris to negotiate the Treaty of Versailles and advocated for the League of Nations, only to see ratification defeated by the Senate while he was debilitated by a stroke.
(We're not counting Edith Wilson, though she was sort of President because of said stroke)
Warren Harding (1921-1923) (Republican) - Most famous for the Teapot Dome scandal. Was generally inept and corrupt. He did reverse some of the worst parts of Wilson's race politics. The Washington Naval Conference, limiting naval power (somewhat hypocritically, with the Great Powers getting more than everyone else, as usual), happened under his watch. Died early. Wrote filthy love letters to his mistresses.
Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929) (Republican) - Did very little while the economy boomed on speculation. Did advocate for anti-lynching bills and granted citizenship to Native Americans.
Herbert Hoover (1929-1933) (Republican) - Firmly believed in laissez faire economics, to the point of doing nothing while the Great Depression gripped the nation. Signed the Smoot-Hawley Tarriff, which made things even worse.
Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945) (Democratic) - Was President during two great crises: the Great Depression and World War 2. His response to the Depression was an almost polar opposite of Hoover's. If Hoover did nothing, FDR tried everything. Government spending increased dramatically following the ideas of Keynes. The biggest legacies here are probably Social Security and the Tennessee Valley Authority. Attempted to pack the courts, sparking outrage (but ultimately cowing the courts). Listened to deficit hawks after the 1936 elections, leading to a economic downturn. Guided American sentiment slowly towards intervention in the growing European and Asian wars, pushing as hard as he could for support to China, the UK, and the Soviet Union. After Pearl Harbor guided the war effort as the entire nation mobilized for the war. Died just before the surrender of Europe in May 1945. Only President to serve more than two terms.
Harry S. Truman (1945-1953) (Democratic) - Managed the end of WW2 after FDR's death. Made the decision to drop atomic weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Launched the Marshall Plan. Integrated the armed forces. Spearheaded the creation of NATO. Guided the US into the Korean War.
Dwight Eisenhower (1953-1961) (Republican) - Elected to end American involvement in Korea, which he did. Pushed for the Interstate Highway System, started NASA as a response to the Sputnik launch. Sent federal troops to Little Rock to enforce Brown v. Board of Education. Passed the first Civil Rights Acts since 1875. Ordered a CIA coup in Iran that would have... repercussions.
John F. Kennedy (1961-1963) (Democratic) - Promised an American would land on the moon by 1970. Launched the Bay of Pigs invasion, but refused to allow false-flag attacks to create an excuse for outright war with Cuba. Negotiated an end to the Cuban Missile Crisis rather than launch an invasion. Escalated American presence in Vietnam. Legislative agenda largely stalled. Assassinated in Dallas.
Lyndon Johnson (1963-1969) (Democratic) - Passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Voting Rights Act of 1965, and Fair Housing Act, the civil rights movements largest gains. Created Medicare and Medicaid, the first meaningful steps towards providing healthcare to Americans after 60 years of various attempts. Dramatically lowered poverty rates, especially among the elderly. Dramatically escalated the Vietnam War, first launching bombing campaigns, then sending ground troops. Presidential warmaking powers dramatically expanded under his watch. Eventually the war destroyed his popularity among his political base and he declined to seek the Democratic nomination in 1968.
Richard Nixon (1969-1974) (Republican) - Paranoid megalomaniac who believed only he could navigate America's transition to a world where it was not overwhelmingly powerful. Signed a number of progressive pieces of legislation passed by overwhelming Democratic majorities. Political genius who created the modern Republican party by exploiting fissures created by race. Started the war on drugs. Primarily focused on foreign affairs, in particular using the People's Republic of China as a weapon against the Soviet Union. Worked for arms control with the Soviet Union. Secretly expanded the Vietnam War while promising he would end it. Bombed neutral nations. Authorized the political sabotage of the Democratic Party in the 1972 election and was prominently involved in covering up said sabotage, particularly the break-in at the Watergate Hotel. Ultimately was forced to resign in disgrace in August of 1974 to avoid impeachment and removal from office.
Gerald Ford (1974-1977) (Republican) - The only President to not be elected to either the Presidency or Vice Presidency, he was appointed by Nixon when Spiro Agnew resigned as a result of a bribery scandal from his time as an elected official in Maryland. He pardoned Nixon for his crimes before any trial occurred. Pursued détente with the USSR. Withdrew from Vietnam. Combated inflation during his presidency, mostly unsuccessfully. Played "The Victors" instead of "Hail to the Chief."
Jimmy Carter (1977-1981) (Democratic) - Was more conservative than his Democratic Congress, leading to several fights (especially over health care) and a primary challenge from the left by Ted Kennedy. Experienced some success in foreign policy, in particular the Camp David Accords. Handled the Iranian Hostage Crisis with middling success. Was ahead of his times with regards to the environmental movement.
Ronald Reagan (1981-1989) (Republican) - Pushed the Republican Party and the country towards supply side economics. Massive military spending. Hated the Soviet Union but did negotiate some arms control treaties with it. Invaded Grenada. Should have been destroyed by the Iran-Contra scandal. Escalated the war on drugs. Reshaped the federal judiciary with conservatives.
George HW Bush (1989-1993) (Republican) - Raised taxes, infuriating his base. Intervened in the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait and decided not to occupy Iraq and overthrow its dictator. Oversaw the end of the Cold War, the reunification of Germany, and the breakup of the Soviet Union. Negotiated NAFTA.
Bill Clinton (1993-2001) (Democratic) - Compromised with an increasingly radical Republican Congress. Dramatically reformed welfare (to be less generous). Signed a crime bill that increased incarceration rates, by large amounts. Failed to get a health care plan through Congress. Was dogged by (mostly fake) scandals throughout his term, ultimately leading to his impeachment for lying about sexual relations with a White House intern. Ratified NAFTA. Involved the US in peacekeeping missions in the Balkans. Helped guide the peace process in Ireland. Focused on the threat of terrorism.
George W. Bush (2001-2009) (Republican) - Elected at a time when politics felt like it didn't matter, he saw the 9/11 attacks happen on his watch, leading to his term being dominated by the response. Invaded Afghanistan for harboring Osama bin Laden and his Al Qaeda network. Invaded Iraq based on lies a year and a half later. Fucked up the occupation of Iraq. Signed an education reform bill, No Child Left Behind. Continued Republican supply side policies as a bubble formed. Bailed out the banks when the economy crashed, with little to no oversight. Appointed a crony to lead FEMA with disastrous consequences for New Orleans. Removed, attacked, and ended regulations designed to protect workers. Instituted torture of detainees. Campaigned on discrimination against gay Americans. Did do some good things for Africa, particularly PEPFAR.
Barack Obama (2009-2017) (Democratic) - The second man to be world historical merely for being elected (joining Washington). First African-American President. Pushed for and passed the Affordable Care Act, American's first theoretically universal health care plan. Dramatically lowered the rate at which Americans are uninsured. Oversaw a slow but ultimately positive economic recovery. Ended discrimination against gays in the military and oversaw the legalization of gay marriage. Had a terrible education policy, overly focused on privatizing "reformers." Negotiated the first successful worldwide agreement to combat climate change. Authorized the mission that killed Osama bin Laden. Used air power and special forces against a number of Middle Eastern countries. Resisted sending ground troops to anywhere other than Afghanistan, particularly in Libya and Syria where he faced a lot of such pressure. Normalized relations with Cuba.
Vladimir Putin Donald Trump (2017-) (Republican) - We have enough threads about this asshole. Let's ignore him here.
Standings (first place votes in parentheses)
Best
1. Lincoln (10) - 73 points
2. Washington (3) - 53 points
3. FDR (2) - 40 points
4. Teddy Roosevelt - 27 points
5. LBJ (1) - 16 points
6. Obama - 7 points
7. Eisenhower - 6 points
8. James Monroe - 5 points
8. Jefferson - 5 points
10. Truman - 3 point
11. HW Bush - 1 point
Worst
1. Buchanan (-5) - -62 points
2. Jackson (-7) - -58 points
3. Nixon (-3) - -52 points
4. Andrew Johnson (-1) - -29 points
5. George W. Bush - -22 points
6. Reagan - -14 points
7. Gerald Ford (-1) - -5 points
7. Hoover - -5 point
9. Wilson - - 4 points
9. Harding - -4 points
9. Hayes - -4 point
12. Pierce - -3 points
13. Kennedy - -2 points
14. Trump - -1 point (despite my request to not include him!)
14. John Adams - -1 point
Unranked:
Madison
John Quincy Adams
Van Buren
William Henry Harrison
Tyler
Polk
Taylor
Fillmore
Pierce
Grant
Garfield
Arthur
Cleveland
Benjamin Harrison
McKinley
Taft
Coolidge
Carter
Clinton
The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
enlightenedbum on
+21
Posts
Best:
1. Lincoln - Fundamentally reshaped the country from a group of semi-partnered states not unlike the modern EU into a single nation. Saved the country in its most dire crisis. Freed the slaves. Created the land grant schools, even if I hate a couple individual land grant colleges for dumb sports reasons. I think he's hard to argue against.
2. FDR - Not without his flaws, but guided us through the Depression and the second World War. Had a nasty political fight to prepare the country for what we'd have to do in that war. Best President for poor people until LBJ. Reshaped the country in a way that really only Washington and Lincoln have. (Maybe Reagan, but fuck Reagan).
3. Washington - Established the Presidency. Decided not to be a monarch, which is a big deal for a democrat like me. Exercised federal authority to crush a tax revolt. Responsible statesmen when it came to foreign policy, knowing the new nation needed time to establish itself before it could even begin to think about confronting great powers like Britain or France.
4. Teddy Roosevelt - Worked towards ending the (first) Gilded Age. Forerunner of the environmental movement. Restricted corporate power. Forced the Panama Canal into existence, even if he did it like a jackass. But that's a gigantic boon to America there.
5. Obama - I don't care if it's recency bias and that I voted for him twice and generally fucking adore the man. He inherited a terrible crisis, faced implacable opposition from his political opponents, and still managed to do a ton to help the country. Notably the ACA, gains for gay rights, the Paris Accords (even if we're not in them yet, he got India and China to commit, which is impressive), etc. I find it hard to blame him for his opposition being bonkers.
Honorable mentions to Ike, LBJ's domestic career, and Monroe.
Worst:
2. Buchanan - Ignored the secession of seven states. Endorsed Dred Scott. Was generally a disaster who exacerbated the Civil War. God, fuck him.
3. Nixon - Almost literally everything wrong with modern American politics has its roots in this fucking piece of shit. Southern Strategy, Nixon. Lawless presidency, Nixon. Abuse of executive privilege, Nixon. Anti-intellectualism, Nixon. Just an absolute monster, and that's largely before we get to Watergate.
4. Jackson - Genocidal maniac who also almost single handedly caused one of the worst economic calamities in the nation's history. It's genuinely impressive. Wanted to be an emperor, not a President, ignored the Supreme Court. He's only above Buchanan and Nixon because of the Nullification Crisis.
5. George W. Bush - I've always thought he was over rated, despite generally being regarded as a disaster. His attack on the regulatory state, causing great harm to millions of Americans is almost entirely unreported. He's a war criminal who lied the nation into war and authorized torture. He was and is remarkably callous and his incompetence led to the drowning and dramatic shrinking of a great American city. His economic policies helped lead to the second worst economic climate in the last century. Energy policy was terrible. His administration was corrupt. Do not let the current President's fuckmuppetry lead you to look at this asshole with rose colored glasses.
6. Andrew Johnson - Almost bad enough to make me drop Lincoln from #1 on the best list. Had Reconstruction been done properly with a long campaign of occupation and counterinsurgency with real protections for the former slaves, maybe a lot of our worst impulses and policies from the last 150 years could have been avoided. But no, he tried to return everything to the pre-war status quo as quickly as possible, with the slaves technically freed. Grant tried to salvage things, but then the Republican Party sold out the slaves in 1876. Ugh.
For reference, Trump does not yet crack this list and is probably also behind Harding, Hoover, and Pierce. Still a solid achievement for 18 weeks.
On the negative side--who did the least good for the least number? Who committed the greatest atrocities, or failed to end them? Who caused the most harm to our institutions? Who is most responsible for our current crisis?
On the positive side--who did the most good for the most number? Who committed the best deeds, or suceeded in inspiring them? Who most advanced or enshrined our institutions?
On a more neutral, specific set of criteria:
-dealing with or exacerbating our original sins, Native American genocide and slavery/racism;
-protecting or expanding the territory itself;
-perpetrating/ending wars
-economic impact (most Presidents don't really)
-environmental impact
I think the efficacy argument is entirely orthagonal to this venture. If you accidentally or were forced to do good, you're better than someone who did the bad they wanted to do on purpose.
If your name is something as awesome as Ulysses, you kind of have to do something incredibly massive like become a general and then President. You can't not.
Steam | XBL
1: Lincoln
2: Washington
3: Monroe
4: FDR
5: Obama (although being adjacent to two disasters makes him look perhaps more spectacular than he might really have been)
-1 (worst): Nixon (also didn't mention helping Ailes launch his career, including inspiring the idea for Fox News)
-2: Buchanan
-3: W.
-4: Reagan
-5: Andrew Johnson
My feelings on Nixon and Reagan have shifted dramatically these past 8 years. Fuck those shithats.
Interesting.
I'm still more angry at the puds who poured guzzoline on that mess for craven political gains.
Recency effect I guess.
Worst -
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Yeah, trump would need to pull off something truly spectacular (Like I dunno, peace in the middle east or constructing a perpetual motion machine by hand and showing how you can make one of your own in 5 minutes and $20) to not deserve a place on the top 5 worst.
I would be surprised if Trump didn't hit top worst of all time by the end of his tenure.
Technically not done as President, but yeah. There's nearly infinite things wrong with that fucker.
For worst:
1. Jackson, for the genocide and for the attempted destruction of the checks and balances system.
2. Nixon, for so many reasons.
3. Buchanan, I've been convinced by the above posts.
4. Reagan, for doing a lot to set up the country for the level of fucked-upness it is today.
5. Jefferson, not so much as a President as a general human being. There's a lot of blame to go around for slavery, for thousands and thousands of people, but for the most severe hypocrisy in merging the ideals of our Constitution with the evils of slavery, I blame Jefferson. I don't know that he could've done much to end it, but he didn't have to make the Constitution feel like a giant lie for a hundred years.
I expect Trump to hit #2 if he lasts til 2020. I'm hoping he doesn't actually get to the point of committing genocide.
There was more diversity in the worst last time too. Which is interesting.
Threatening a travel ban delivered unprecedented protests and response. Attempting genocide will lead to unchecked violence in the streets and the absolute and guaranteed stepping back of the majority of republicans from such a request. Which is still not as bad as Jackson, who pulled it off.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
I'm thinking a tie between Nixon and whoever you wanna blame most for the failure of Reconstruction. Both of which I think are the Presidents that essentially defined the post-Civil-War america and all the problems it is utterly incapable of even acknowledging, let alone dealing with.
1 - Gerald Motherfucking Ford. We're paying for his partisan cowardice today and there's no end in sight
2 - Andrew Jackson. God I wish the people who tried to kill him had succeeded
3 - James Buchanan. Made everything worse, when quite possibly he didn't have to
4 - Nixon. The father of the current Republican party. Reagan, Bush, W, Trump are all just repeat performances of this masterclass of evil
5 - Andrew Johnson. YOU HAD ONE JOB
Probably because this is something that we talk about pretty frequently here and there. I remember people ranking Hoover as one of the worst, but the Great Depression wasn't his fault; Calvin "literally slept 14 hours a day" Coolidge should take much of the blame, but he jumped ship right in time for Hoover to be the one holding the bag, and basically set him up to take the fall.
Unsure how I would rank people right now. Nixon and Andrew "genocide" Jackson of course would be ranked among the worst, but is Johnson or Coolidge going to take #5? Should I count Reagan, W. Bush, and/or Trump as individual actors of terribleness or are they symptoms of the cancer that Nixon introduced to American politics? Might make a list later.
I was very surprised by Johnson lower than Jackson and no Hoover or Harding locked for the bottom tier. My big condition for bottom tier is ignoring Supreme Court orders and lowering the international status of the United States while in office.
I'd also say looking to boost presidents ranking solely on who helped the most in their immediate time period is rather myopic; what with populations being as exponential as they are, especially if a president had a pro-immigration policy. My criteria for best are an endearing legacy across political ideologies, and exemplifying the role of the Executive.
I'll try to give a better write up when I get time, but my rankings based solely on accomplishment and legacy of their time in office:
Best:
1. Lincoln - Without precisely him, there's a very good chance our nation wouldn't comprise 50 states. Exemplified how to interact with Legislative and Judicials. Mediocre on foreign policy, and wouldn't have such a strong legacy if not for the immediate crisis he inherited.
2. Washington - Our nations first leader, and our most exceptionally accomplished president militarily. Him and Lincoln can switch spots depending on my mood, and everyone knows both amazing facts and apocryphal stories about both. Washington didn't really accomplish too many amazing policy victories while in office, but he epitomized the role, and stepped aside and passed power on when he felt his time was done.
3. Theodore Roosevelt - if we were doing a ranking of Presidents that were the greatest individuals in and out of the presidency, and whom exemplified what a former President should be like, Teddy would top my list. He had the most holistic political ethos for the nation, and is undoubtedly the superior Roosevelt, especially given his lack of an amazing First Lady such as Eleanore. Who was also his niece, and FDR's cousin. Teddy also allowed his views to evolve with the times, and was just a truly remarkable man. One of the best role models, and most amazing man that has been President.
4. Eisenhower - Amazingly admired across political ideologies and with a remarkable legacy. The 50's were idyllic for many because of this man. Established the interstate highway system, raised international standing and probably the second best president of the 20th century.
5. Monroe - Would be higher if we could take their legacy outside of the office into consideration. Our nations standing, its founding, and how our political system functions all owe a tremendous amount to this man. The Federalist Papers, his doctrine which was the preeminent foreign policy position of the US for a nearly a century. He was a short, demure man whose legacy casts shadow far beyond his stature.
Honorable mentions: LBJ, Wilson and Nixon could all be top 10 for me easily if we're going on legacy and achievements from the Executive branch, Nixon could possibly be top 3, albeit in an impactful way and not necessarily good.
The Worst (From Bad to truly god awful):
1. FDR - Responsible for the largest gross overreach of federal power in out nations history. Dubious impact and vision for the economy. Attempts to game the court, while also blatantly disregarding it's orders. Wishy washy with regards to foreign policy, delaying intervention while creating the US as arms dealer foreign policy still in vogue today. He also hoped the arms sales would bolster our nations recovery efforts after the Great Depression and subsequent dip. Blatantly paternalistic, played favorites and abused nepotism. Even within branches of our government, he was blatantly biased as evidenced by his naval preferences, as well as delaying desegregation until Truman was able to enact it after his death. The modern views equivocating the Presidency with Absolute Monarchs can firmly be linked to Roosevelt, and I feel his misplaced deification and legacy has hindered our nation more than any other President in the 21st century. I also just despise the mans classist philosophical views.
2. Harding - Our most infamous executive corruption scandal, the Great Depression, WW2 all can be traced to this man. The modern conception of an executive beholden to corporate interests is also firmly continued by him (Cleveland being the first blatant example.). Just a poor, better forgotten president.
3. Buchanan - An abysmal tenancy in the office, filled with terrible policy, lack of vision and just being unsuitable for the office. Also responsible for an unlikely to be unseated record in our nation for worst transfer of power (Trump might be able to unseat this.. if states actually do start trying to secede.). Truly a terrible president and usually bottom 3 on most historians lists.
4. GWB - Intelectually unsuitable for the office, nepotistic and another mark in the column for viewing the Executive as King. Also an example of an executive face beholden to special interests, and his cabinets superior (to them; just truly horrendous) policy. Got us into unneeded wars, expediated the worst or second worse economic collapse in world history, and destroyed international standing. He did a twofer there by poisoning our political good will with selfish misguided wars in the Middle East. Just a truly terrible president that I could write pages about explaining why. Could be THE worst if not for a legitimate murdering asshole we've had in office, although his (semi)-Vice President did actually do murder while they were in office, hmm.
5. Jackson - I mean come on. The worst. You all will probably give a lot of the interesting tidbits on just exactly how bad this guy was. While writing this I almost got convinced to swap him and Dubya, but then I remembered his blatant disregard of Supreme Court orders and dissolving the national bank... my god. Dubya gaining the presidency and doing as much damage as he did while having a minority of votes through an unciteable per curiam Supreme Court suit is mighty impressive. Maybe in a hundred years when the lasting damages of the two can be adequately compared can I make the swap, but as it is I gotta go with Jackson as the worst.
Honorable Mentions: Bush, Sr., Reagan, Kennedy; all presidents that utilized the office for personal reasons and so disconnected from the average American and lacking political vision in some aspects it's remarkable. Hoover is atrocious, and exemplifies the issue with Government by bureaucratic oligarchs. I disagree with the summation of his views from the OP, but don't have time right now to go into all the specifics. A casual Wikipedia skim can show some of the issues with the summation. Johnson was pretty bad, and so was Ford to round out the bottom possibles.
Why complain about Presidents who bungled this that and the other thing when it has been made incredibly clear that racism is the root of American evil? Thus why Presidents whose terms failed to address those issues are the worst.
Also why I can't give FDR the top best spot
I mean, worse then Nixon? Fucking please.
He would've intervened earlier, yea, but his only recorded bias for intervention was only selling arms to the Allies. He knew that Japan was planning a bomb in the Pacific for three weeks before Pearl Harbor and could've easily intervened if he truly had it as a policy goal. He was not a president beholden to the constitution or policy.
The ideology that links the GOP is the idea that the nation will be more productive if they can undue this change, remove the "burden" of paying for a federal government in return for bringing back a world where the states and corporations have a free hand to rule as they fit. We are already seeing glimpses of the reality they miss - which is that a world where the United States returns to its historical norms is a world where the pervasive violence of the 19th century is played out with 21st century weapons and tactics.
The other common, and more depressing, thread linking those presidents is that they realized the United States they ruled was not capable of holding out against its adversaries. Lincoln kept the states together for a variety of reasons, but one major one was that he believed - with cause - that a divided and weakened United States would be easy prey for the European powers. One of Lincoln's obsessions was hitting the South as hard and fast as possible, racking up victories in order to keep England and France from recognizing the Confederacy and getting involved in the war.
Teddy Roosevelt wanted to become a world power and realized that a nation of impoverished and poorly educated wage slaves would not be capable of projecting influence across the globe. Both relied on the incompetence of the European powers to keep a fresh supply of skilled immigrants flowing in the United States to off-set the weaknesses of the native-soil population. Wilson, who was not a particularly great president, did strengthen federal efforts to encourage education, improve public health, and reduce hunger when his advisors started freaking out that far too many of the soldiers being drafted were so sick, malnourished, and poorly educated that they could not be turned into soldiers in a modern army. FDR realized that the Depression was allowing both the Soviets and the fascists to foster movements among the population aimed at weakening the influence of the United States.
He did put Ailes in charge of his whole TV operation in a forerunner for Fox, for the record.
To more directly answer your question:
1) Levying the power of the executive branch against his political opponents
2) The bombings of Laos and Cambodia
3) Starting the drug war with the explicit intent of imprisoning the antiwar movement and African-Americans
4) His judicial appointments were god awful
Hmm, yea I don't see how those top what the other worst possibilities have done. I think his good policy, and debasing the Gold standard were triumphs for heralding us to the 21st century. I could actually see myself voting Republican if Nixon was the basis of the modern GOP instead of Reagan. I think Nixon was complex and had large flaws, but I think his vision and policy were consistent and well thought. His the president can't break laws views was firmly grounded in what Roosevelt had done, and his own desire for more power. The president isn't as powerful as most Americans believe.
Nah, Jefferson was awful, but none of that was his fault, and he made compromises he had to make to get the Declaration Signed.
Yea, Jefferson was just a huge Franco-phile and a horn dog. He wasn't as classist, and power hungry as most of the Federalists which makes it hard for me to put him as a bottom tier president. The Louisiana purchase alone.
He also fundamentally debased our politics and created the modern Republican Party. It is a fundamentally Nixonian political party with more Reaganish policy preferences (though if Nixon didn't have massive Democratic majorities to work with he would have been much more Reaganish). But you asked purely about policy.
Well #1 he used the mechanisms and organs of the United States government to damage and punish his personal and political enemies. He also lied to the American people while conducting a secret illegal war. And while he signed some positive legislation, they were mostly watered down versions of what the Democratic Congress wanted. And he almost singlehandedly destroyed faith in the American Presidency.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Putting all of that on Jefferson's shoulders is reductive
The quote tree is about Nixon.
I don't see how the Democratic congress wanted all of his policy goals, and don't get the linking of Republican executive policy goals with democrat legislative. Nixon got us out of Vietnam, which was more of a democratic position yes, but had turned bipartisan at that point. I'm not going to argue about the methods taken, or his self interest which I think all good presidents have had, but claiming all his good policy was because of the Democrats is just absurd. They very much did not want China, and only Nixon could've done that and the move to a fiat USD reserve currency.
I think a lot of it just boils down to R bad, D good for a lot of you, when the two are more alike and differing shades of gray in practice. I think linking Nixon to Trump is laughable and completely divorced from the realities of the twos career trajectories and biographies.
Jefferson's biggest flaw was that he believed in an anachronistic fantasy - that freedom was secured by a weak central government ruling over a nation of independent farmers. He had virtues - primarily his belief in individual liberty and love of learning. But ultimately, he was a limited man - a slave owner who believed slavery would naturally fall away even though he could not afford to free his own slaves; a failed businessman who saw the city and the factory as the enemies of freedom.