Options

Shooting at congressional baseball practice in Alexandria, Virginia

13468928

Posts

  • Options
    descdesc Goretexing to death Registered User regular
    Political violence is such a hideous sham.

    It seems impossible to me that the genie of the modern news cycle / internet hot-take-o-sphere will go back in the bottle on this, but I wonder to what extent it's going to continue to impact things having the President himself plugged into a continuum going from Fox & Friends as the most respectable source and then proceeding into Alex Jones type news and serving as a megaphone for these views in essentially real time.

    The politicization of these events and the obviously selective choices of which tragedies get the most coverage is in the hands of the media in one sense, but is also guided by everyone who clicks or doesn't click/share articles.

    When the president himself uses Twitter to talk directly to his base -- who are resolutely still supporting him -- it feels significant to me that a bunch of video gamers are policing their own responses to an unfolding tragedy more judiciously than some members of the government being quoted in this thread.

    Is this just the reality of every tragedy going forward? It's not that there hasn't always been politicization and yellow journalism and so on, but the speed and immediacy and the public demand for context and narrative and response within a shrinking window of time is new. Or is it? Maybe just more pronounced? Is it just going to be a land grab to plant a flag on the story within 60 minutes of every tragedy on the national stage?

    And while we wait for more details to come out, I guess my more pessimistic question is really: do the facts even matter? We're going to have completely separate and non-overlapping universes of politically-sorted interpretations of these events wherein inaccuracies or total lies will be propagated especially in situations where we don't have all the facts yet but emotions are running high. People hit the refresh button on their site and they'll either get a continuous stream of news on this or they'll go somewhere that serves it up. Are the more cautious news outlets competing at a disadvantage every time something like this happens?

  • Options
    matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off' Points to 'on'Registered User regular
    desc wrote: »
    Political violence is such a hideous sham.

    It seems impossible to me that the genie of the modern news cycle / internet hot-take-o-sphere will go back in the bottle on this, but I wonder to what extent it's going to continue to impact things having the President himself plugged into a continuum going from Fox & Friends as the most respectable source and then proceeding into Alex Jones type news and serving as a megaphone for these views in essentially real time.

    The politicization of these events and the obviously selective choices of which tragedies get the most coverage is in the hands of the media in one sense, but is also guided by everyone who clicks or doesn't click/share articles.

    When the president himself uses Twitter to talk directly to his base -- who are resolutely still supporting him -- it feels significant to me that a bunch of video gamers are policing their own responses to an unfolding tragedy more judiciously than some members of the government being quoted in this thread.

    Is this just the reality of every tragedy going forward? It's not that there hasn't always been politicization and yellow journalism and so on, but the speed and immediacy and the public demand for context and narrative and response within a shrinking window of time is new. Or is it? Maybe just more pronounced? Is it just going to be a land grab to plant a flag on the story within 60 minutes of every tragedy on the national stage?

    And while we wait for more details to come out, I guess my more pessimistic question is really: do the facts even matter? We're going to have completely separate and non-overlapping universes of politically-sorted interpretations of these events wherein inaccuracies or total lies will be propagated especially in situations where we don't have all the facts yet but emotions are running high. People hit the refresh button on their site and they'll either get a continuous stream of news on this or they'll go somewhere that serves it up. Are the more cautious news outlets competing at a disadvantage every time something like this happens?

    "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Winston Churchill

    Shaping the narrative is all that matters any more. People don't remember what happened a week after a shooting, they remember who spoke up first, what was said first, when it was all still fresh and shocking.

    nibXTE7.png
  • Options
    BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited June 2017
    editted for stupid tone

    NBC News Reporter


    Burtletoy on
  • Options
    GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    Well, fuck. This is horrible for a whole host of reasons.

    I hope the injured recover.

    Battletag: Threeve#1501; PSN: Threeve703; Steam: 3eeve
  • Options
    ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    And now for a week of Republicans being tragic snowflakes beyond all criticism that have never done anything to incite the ire of anyone ever, when if this was the other way around, they would most definitely be telling Democrats that it was their own fault, and they had it coming because of their actions and rhetoric.

  • Options
    NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    desc wrote: »
    Political violence is such a hideous sham.

    It seems impossible to me that the genie of the modern news cycle / internet hot-take-o-sphere will go back in the bottle on this, but I wonder to what extent it's going to continue to impact things having the President himself plugged into a continuum going from Fox & Friends as the most respectable source and then proceeding into Alex Jones type news and serving as a megaphone for these views in essentially real time.

    The politicization of these events and the obviously selective choices of which tragedies get the most coverage is in the hands of the media in one sense, but is also guided by everyone who clicks or doesn't click/share articles.

    When the president himself uses Twitter to talk directly to his base -- who are resolutely still supporting him -- it feels significant to me that a bunch of video gamers are policing their own responses to an unfolding tragedy more judiciously than some members of the government being quoted in this thread.

    Is this just the reality of every tragedy going forward? It's not that there hasn't always been politicization and yellow journalism and so on, but the speed and immediacy and the public demand for context and narrative and response within a shrinking window of time is new. Or is it? Maybe just more pronounced? Is it just going to be a land grab to plant a flag on the story within 60 minutes of every tragedy on the national stage?

    And while we wait for more details to come out, I guess my more pessimistic question is really: do the facts even matter? We're going to have completely separate and non-overlapping universes of politically-sorted interpretations of these events wherein inaccuracies or total lies will be propagated especially in situations where we don't have all the facts yet but emotions are running high. People hit the refresh button on their site and they'll either get a continuous stream of news on this or they'll go somewhere that serves it up. Are the more cautious news outlets competing at a disadvantage every time something like this happens?

    "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Winston Churchill

    Shaping the narrative is all that matters any more. People don't remember what happened a week after a shooting, they remember who spoke up first, what was said first, when it was all still fresh and shocking.

    Tribalism at broadband speeds.

  • Options
    CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    if this was the other way around, they would most definitely be telling Democrats that it was their own fault, and they had it coming because of their actions and rhetoric.

    Oh, I've already heard that.

  • Options
    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    edited June 2017
    Ugh I was worried this was going to happen

    (Bloomberg WH reporter)

    So looking forward to this rhetoric about the violent left

    PantsB on
    11793-1.png
    day9gosu.png
    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
  • Options
    ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    I know Scalise had a security detail and it was present. But it is kind of surprising to me that 20+ members of congress can be assembled somewhere out in the open and just the number of them alone didn't require some kind of security in and of itself.

    But then again, this did happen in a neighborhood where you'd never think it would happen.

  • Options
    EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    edited June 2017
    CNN's Tom LoBianco is reporting that GOP House Rep Jeff Duncan said that the shooter asked if the team was GOP or Dem

    If this is true I'm vaguely worried about what the GOP response is going to be. Closer to Rep King's than Pres Trump's I'm guessing.

    Eddy on
    "and the morning stars I have seen
    and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
  • Options
    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    Ugh I was worried this was going to happen

    Oh for the love of...

    Can Schumer please send the man some crisis management experts?

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • Options
    matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off' Points to 'on'Registered User regular
    Eddy wrote: »
    CNN's Tom LoBianco is reporting that GOP House Rep Jeff Duncan said that the shooter asked if the team was GOP or Dem

    If this is true I'm vaguely worried about what the GOP response is going to be. Closer to Rep King's than Pres Trump's I'm guessing.

    I thought they already disproved that, the guy who asked him the question was identified as wearing a jogging outfit, the shooter had jeans on.

    nibXTE7.png
  • Options
    HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    desc wrote: »
    Political violence is such a hideous sham.

    It seems impossible to me that the genie of the modern news cycle / internet hot-take-o-sphere will go back in the bottle on this, but I wonder to what extent it's going to continue to impact things having the President himself plugged into a continuum going from Fox & Friends as the most respectable source and then proceeding into Alex Jones type news and serving as a megaphone for these views in essentially real time.

    The politicization of these events and the obviously selective choices of which tragedies get the most coverage is in the hands of the media in one sense, but is also guided by everyone who clicks or doesn't click/share articles.

    When the president himself uses Twitter to talk directly to his base -- who are resolutely still supporting him -- it feels significant to me that a bunch of video gamers are policing their own responses to an unfolding tragedy more judiciously than some members of the government being quoted in this thread.

    Is this just the reality of every tragedy going forward? It's not that there hasn't always been politicization and yellow journalism and so on, but the speed and immediacy and the public demand for context and narrative and response within a shrinking window of time is new. Or is it? Maybe just more pronounced? Is it just going to be a land grab to plant a flag on the story within 60 minutes of every tragedy on the national stage?

    And while we wait for more details to come out, I guess my more pessimistic question is really: do the facts even matter? We're going to have completely separate and non-overlapping universes of politically-sorted interpretations of these events wherein inaccuracies or total lies will be propagated especially in situations where we don't have all the facts yet but emotions are running high. People hit the refresh button on their site and they'll either get a continuous stream of news on this or they'll go somewhere that serves it up. Are the more cautious news outlets competing at a disadvantage every time something like this happens?

    Let's be clear about one thing; this incident should be getting a lot of coverage, because it was a nakedly political attack with a high casualty rate (under the FBI's definition of a mass shooting) on sitting members of Congress. It's a big deal, just like the assault on Gabby Giffords.

    However the lens with which these incidents are approached in addition to the breathlessness of the coverage and rush to identify WHAT THIS MEANS ABOUT US does open up even greater danger that the corpse of the shooter will be a platform for ideological battles to entrench themselves and for the facts to mean very little if they can't be neatly sorted into "radical right or left."

    People--us included--were not the ones being fired on so our immediate concern is, what will this mean for our respective tribal affiliations. And since everyone and anyone is a pundit these days, the rush to ID what it will mean for us going forward is not just limited to the news outlets but to everyone in their own communities drawing extreme conclusions from limited facts. It's natural and the new normal. We should all expect this.

    What worries me most, though, is that the power to do anything about it is currently in the hands of deluded, law-enforcement fetishizing ideologues and intellectually vacuous opportunists whose ability to act on those extreme conclusions has never been as great as it is now.

    3DS: 2165 - 6538 - 3417
    NNID: Hakkekage
  • Options
    PonyPony Registered User regular
    It's worth noting that as much praise that people like Rand Paul are heaping on the 2 Capitol Police that intervened for saving lives here and stopping this guy.

    It was not a "good guy with a gun". It was highly trained Capitol Police security detail specifically trained for this kind of thing.

  • Options
    HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    edited June 2017
    Eddy wrote: »
    CNN's Tom LoBianco is reporting that GOP House Rep Jeff Duncan said that the shooter asked if the team was GOP or Dem

    If this is true I'm vaguely worried about what the GOP response is going to be. Closer to Rep King's than Pres Trump's I'm guessing.

    I thought they already disproved that, the guy who asked him the question was identified as wearing a jogging outfit, the shooter had jeans on.

    I think the accuracy of Duncan's report is still up in the air

    Right now not a lot is proven/disproven

    Hakkekage on
    3DS: 2165 - 6538 - 3417
    NNID: Hakkekage
  • Options
    CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    Ugh I was worried this was going to happen

    Oh for the love of...

    Can Schumer please send the man some crisis management experts?

    Why? Sanders is an independent.

  • Options
    fightinfilipinofightinfilipino Angry as Hell #BLMRegistered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    Ugh I was worried this was going to happen

    Oh for the love of...

    Can Schumer please send the man some crisis management experts?

    what is wrong with this response in your view? it's a good response in my mind. Bernie doesn't deny it, he tells the unvarnished truth and his own feelings on the matter.

    ffNewSig.png
    steam | Dokkan: 868846562
  • Options
    DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    rhylith wrote: »


    I wonder how Rand Paul feels about this 2016 tweet now that he's lived it.

    Not justifying the shooting which is awful, but you cannot deny that the man's own language impacts this.

    This is going to get politicized, no way around it.

    But when it does, I want every Democratic congressman, senator, and spokesman to have a stack of these statements from Republicans calling for "2nd Amendment Solutions" at the ready to pass out every time a Republican/Republican supporter decries this "violence from the left."

    Oh look, like Steve King (R-Iowa) (Link):
    “I think we’ll be able to hold our ground and keep our weapons,” he added. “I would just take us back to what [Fox News host] Judge Napolitano said. I thought he made it very clear. He said, ‘The Second Amendment isn’t about the right to shoot deer. It’s a right to shoot tyrants.’
    Read more at https://wonkette.com/498416/iowa-rep-steve-king-stars-in-tragic-tale-a-christmas-without-guns#QOQvqevFO772otkd.99

    Switch Friend Code: SW-6732-9515-9697
  • Options
    HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    Ugh I was worried this was going to happen

    Oh for the love of...

    Can Schumer please send the man some crisis management experts?

    what is wrong with this response in your view? it's a good response in my mind. Bernie doesn't deny it, he tells the unvarnished truth and his own feelings on the matter.

    Yeah I'm glad he expanded on his initial statement

    3DS: 2165 - 6538 - 3417
    NNID: Hakkekage
  • Options
    CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Pony wrote: »
    It's worth noting that as much praise that people like Rand Paul are heaping on the 2 Capitol Police that intervened for saving lives here and stopping this guy.

    It was not a "good guy with a gun". It was highly trained Capitol Police security detail specifically trained for this kind of thing.

    It usually is. Even when it's a bystander, half the time they are off-duty police. I'm always impressed when I hear of an actual "good guy with a gun" that prevented a crime, because it is so rare.

  • Options
    CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    Ugh I was worried this was going to happen

    Oh for the love of...

    Can Schumer please send the man some crisis management experts?

    what is wrong with this response in your view? it's a good response in my mind. Bernie doesn't deny it, he tells the unvarnished truth and his own feelings on the matter.

    Yeah, and the message about how "real change" is peaceful is actually helpful, in case any of his other followers were inspired by this guy. It's telling them to cool down.

    But no-one ever listens to Bernie.

  • Options
    Edith UpwardsEdith Upwards Registered User regular
    edited June 2017


    Knowing, as I do, people who have been awaiting the collapse of civil order for most of their lives so that they could kill us, I'm hoping the Democrats get their shit together real soon.

    Edith Upwards on
  • Options
    Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    edited June 2017
    Eddy wrote: »
    CNN's Tom LoBianco is reporting that GOP House Rep Jeff Duncan said that the shooter asked if the team was GOP or Dem

    If this is true I'm vaguely worried about what the GOP response is going to be. Closer to Rep King's than Pres Trump's I'm guessing.

    I thought they already disproved that, the guy who asked him the question was identified as wearing a jogging outfit, the shooter had jeans on.

    Sure, but it's "true" now. Too many people have repeated it for the "well, but" to ever stick.

    Knight_ on
    aeNqQM9.jpg
  • Options
    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    Ugh I was worried this was going to happen

    Oh for the love of...

    Can Schumer please send the man some crisis management experts?

    what is wrong with this response in your view? it's a good response in my mind. Bernie doesn't deny it, he tells the unvarnished truth and his own feelings on the matter.

    And in doing so has tied himself to the shooter and given the opposition red meat.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • Options
    HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    12:13 PM
    June 14 by Kelsey Snell
    Members of Congress ask about paying for private security
    Several members of Congress said they spoke up at the closed-door member briefing to ask whether they could use campaign funds to help pay for private security. House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) said the issue was raised but no official guidance has been issued.

    “That’s an issue we have been looking at,” McCarthy told reporters after the meeting.

    On the one hand, they are right to be concerned

    on the other hand I foresee the increased need for personal security to further justify the widening gap between congress members and constituent access

    3DS: 2165 - 6538 - 3417
    NNID: Hakkekage
  • Options
    silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    Rand Paul saying if Steve Scalise's security detail was not there, quite possibly the whole baseball team would have been killed.

    I am terrified for our country. A crazy person only needs to succeed once, while law enforcement need to succeed every time.

  • Options
    fightinfilipinofightinfilipino Angry as Hell #BLMRegistered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    Ugh I was worried this was going to happen

    Oh for the love of...

    Can Schumer please send the man some crisis management experts?

    what is wrong with this response in your view? it's a good response in my mind. Bernie doesn't deny it, he tells the unvarnished truth and his own feelings on the matter.

    And in doing so has tied himself to the shooter and given the opposition red meat.

    as soon as it came out the shooter had volunteered for the Sanders campaign, this was going to happen anyways.

    better that Bernie get in front of it now.

    ffNewSig.png
    steam | Dokkan: 868846562
  • Options
    CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    Ugh I was worried this was going to happen

    Oh for the love of...

    Can Schumer please send the man some crisis management experts?

    what is wrong with this response in your view? it's a good response in my mind. Bernie doesn't deny it, he tells the unvarnished truth and his own feelings on the matter.

    And in doing so has tied himself to the shooter and given the opposition red meat.

    The shooter seems to have festooned his social media with stuff about Bernie and other left-wing things. The grown-up, mature thing to do is to say "This guy was one of us, but he is bad, did a bad thing, and none of us should imitate him." Denial that he was actually a left-winger is similar to behavior from right-wingers when one of their guys does something bad and suddenly it's a false flag or somehow he wasn't really right wing. There's no way to move on and heal your cause without understanding that being "one of us" doesn't inoculate you from doing bad things. Denial just leads to bad places, like the current right-wing hysteria about conspiracies.

  • Options
    PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited June 2017
    The violent, lunatic extreme far left exists. It is a thing. Pretending it doesn't exist is almost the definition of No True Scotsman

    Pony on
  • Options
    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    OptimusZed wrote: »


    Official presser at ~10:30. No reported fatalities, 5 people transported to medical facilities.
    "Suspect in custody"? So the odds are high that said suspect is white. I mean that's literally how cops operate in America at this point.

  • Options
    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    Ugh I was worried this was going to happen

    Oh for the love of...

    Can Schumer please send the man some crisis management experts?

    what is wrong with this response in your view? it's a good response in my mind. Bernie doesn't deny it, he tells the unvarnished truth and his own feelings on the matter.

    And in doing so has tied himself to the shooter and given the opposition red meat.

    The shooter seems to have festooned his social media with stuff about Bernie and other left-wing things. The grown-up, mature thing to do is to say "This guy was one of us, but he is bad, did a bad thing, and none of us should imitate him." Denial that he was actually a left-winger is similar to behavior from right-wingers when one of their guys does something bad and suddenly it's a false flag or somehow he wasn't really right wing. There's no way to move on and heal your cause without understanding that being "one of us" doesn't inoculate you from doing bad things. Denial just leads to bad places, like the current right-wing hysteria about conspiracies.

    He shows up at our parties, but we are not with him.

  • Options
    akajaybayakajaybay Registered User regular
    Oh geez, Nancy Pelosi, you need to shut up. The guy in front of you said all the right things, just repeat that.
    How did you get into the weeds talking about how you get more death threats than anyone.

  • Options
    PonyPony Registered User regular
    Nancy Pelosi never owned a shoe she didn't like to put in her mouth

  • Options
    a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    Pony wrote: »
    Nancy Pelosi never owned a shoe she didn't like to put in her mouth

    She's very good at her job inside Congress, but she is not a very good public-facing politician that I've ever seen.

  • Options
    ViskodViskod Registered User regular


    Knowing, as I do, people who have been awaiting the collapse of civil order for most of their lives so that they could kill us, I'm hoping the Democrats get their shit together real soon.

    Oh great.

    Because there's definitely not a group of ignorant violence prone individuals that now feel emboldened by President Trump that will see this as something they blame the Democrats for and feel the need to take "revenge."

  • Options
    ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »


    Official presser at ~10:30. No reported fatalities, 5 people transported to medical facilities.
    "Suspect in custody"? So the odds are high that said suspect is white. I mean that's literally how cops operate in America at this point.

    He was white, but current news is that he died from his injuries.

    So "in custody" ended up meaning he hadn't died from his, probably, retaliatory gunshot wounds yet.

  • Options
    Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    WaPo article has a statement from Duncan who is not saying the guy was in a jogging suit anymore. He is saying he thinks it is the shooter now.

  • Options
    SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    Ugh I was worried this was going to happen

    Oh for the love of...

    Can Schumer please send the man some crisis management experts?

    what is wrong with this response in your view? it's a good response in my mind. Bernie doesn't deny it, he tells the unvarnished truth and his own feelings on the matter.

    And in doing so has tied himself to the shooter and given the opposition red meat.

    What do you want him to do, lie? Avoid the truth? Do all the things that Bernie Sanders is the polar opposite of? He's not handing the right wingers ammo, he's being truthful and speaking on a message of peace. Nothing wrong with that.

  • Options
    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    Ugh I was worried this was going to happen

    Oh for the love of...

    Can Schumer please send the man some crisis management experts?

    what is wrong with this response in your view? it's a good response in my mind. Bernie doesn't deny it, he tells the unvarnished truth and his own feelings on the matter.

    And in doing so has tied himself to the shooter and given the opposition red meat.

    as soon as it came out the shooter had volunteered for the Sanders campaign, this was going to happen anyways.

    better that Bernie get in front of it now.

    It was going to happen, he wasn't just like a guy who made calls. He was a traveling volunteer back in the Iowa caucuses and was a Bernie-or-Buster. And now he's fucked his cause and the rest of us pretty good while also being a violent asshole who hurt and could have killed people.

    11793-1.png
    day9gosu.png
    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
  • Options
    AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    According to what I'm reading, the guy was a nutjob. A hardcore Berniebro, anti-Hillary misogynistic piece of fucking looney tunes with a history of domestic abuse, arrests, and DWI.

    Gingrich is already spinning this as "leftist terrorism," but I bet he stops short of actually offering meaningful ideas to combat gun violence.

Sign In or Register to comment.