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Shooting at congressional baseball practice in Alexandria, Virginia

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    PonyPony Registered User regular
    CNN's John King is possibly the biggest fucking hack that isn't one of their explicit Trump surrogates.

    "This isn't a day for politics. This is a day for prayer."

    It was a politically motivated attack on politicians that multiple politicians are already trying to politicize?

    You are a journalist. Take your "thoughts and prayers" and fuck off. Report the news.

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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Atomika wrote: »
    According to what I'm reading, the guy was a nutjob. A hardcore Berniebro, anti-Hillary misogynistic piece of fucking looney tunes with a history of domestic abuse, arrests, and DWI.

    Gingrich is already spinning this as "leftist terrorism," but I bet he stops short of actually offering meaningful ideas to combat gun violence.

    Pretty common amoung shooters and terrorists in general really. Dude on the train wasn't exactly a model citizen either

    And Mr. Gingrich called for ethnic cleansing a while back so I'm not sure why he's still a pundit.

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    SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    Can we cite sources for all this info we have on the dude? I saw someone saying he had liked Hillary 2016 on his facebook and now people saying he was a bernie or bust type of person and it's all conflicting and not helpful.

    He certainly didn't sound like a stable individual either way and should in no way be representative of anyone's supporters.

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited June 2017
    Atomika wrote: »
    According to what I'm reading, the guy was a nutjob. A hardcore Berniebro, anti-Hillary misogynistic piece of fucking looney tunes with a history of domestic abuse, arrests, and DWI.

    Gingrich is already spinning this as "leftist terrorism," but I bet he stops short of actually offering meaningful ideas to combat gun violence.
    Gingrich better spend time talking to Rand Paul and other 2nd amendment supporters instead, because what happened today is their main talking point.


    Edit - This is just a random user bringing up an old Rand Paul tweet. Trying to get a direct link to the tweet in question.

    Henroid on
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    fightinfilipinofightinfilipino Angry as Hell #BLMRegistered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Can we cite sources for all this info we have on the dude? I saw someone saying he had liked Hillary 2016 on his facebook and now people saying he was a bernie or bust type of person and it's all conflicting and not helpful.

    He certainly didn't sound like a stable individual either way and should in no way be representative of anyone's supporters.

    source for the shooter being a volunteer on the Bernie Sanders campaign: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2017/jun/14/virginia-shooting-house-majority-whip-congressional-baseball-practice-live?page=with:block-59416295e4b014a733d6230c#block-59416295e4b014a733d6230c

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    Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    Ugh I was worried this was going to happen

    Oh for the love of...

    Can Schumer please send the man some crisis management experts?

    what is wrong with this response in your view? it's a good response in my mind. Bernie doesn't deny it, he tells the unvarnished truth and his own feelings on the matter.

    And in doing so has tied himself to the shooter and given the opposition red meat.

    The shooter seems to have festooned his social media with stuff about Bernie and other left-wing things. The grown-up, mature thing to do is to say "This guy was one of us, but he is bad, did a bad thing, and none of us should imitate him." Denial that he was actually a left-winger is similar to behavior from right-wingers when one of their guys does something bad and suddenly it's a false flag or somehow he wasn't really right wing. There's no way to move on and heal your cause without understanding that being "one of us" doesn't inoculate you from doing bad things. Denial just leads to bad places, like the current right-wing hysteria about conspiracies.

    idk i'd feel a lot better about this if it wasn't currently being used to attack the democratic party and used to prop up the insane baby we have as president.

    like, this attack is literally going to be used to pass a healthcare law removing healthcare from millions of people. it's impossible to stop and do the grown up mature thing when the other side started flinging shit before the gunshots stopped echoing.

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    CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    Ugh I was worried this was going to happen

    Oh for the love of...

    Can Schumer please send the man some crisis management experts?

    what is wrong with this response in your view? it's a good response in my mind. Bernie doesn't deny it, he tells the unvarnished truth and his own feelings on the matter.

    And in doing so has tied himself to the shooter and given the opposition red meat.

    The shooter seems to have festooned his social media with stuff about Bernie and other left-wing things. The grown-up, mature thing to do is to say "This guy was one of us, but he is bad, did a bad thing, and none of us should imitate him." Denial that he was actually a left-winger is similar to behavior from right-wingers when one of their guys does something bad and suddenly it's a false flag or somehow he wasn't really right wing. There's no way to move on and heal your cause without understanding that being "one of us" doesn't inoculate you from doing bad things. Denial just leads to bad places, like the current right-wing hysteria about conspiracies.

    idk i'd feel a lot better about this if it wasn't currently being used to attack the democratic party and used to prop up the insane baby we have as president.

    like, this attack is literally going to be used to pass a healthcare law removing healthcare from millions of people. it's impossible to stop and do the grown up mature thing when the other side started flinging shit before the gunshots stopped echoing.

    No it isn't. The healthcare law was going to pass anyway.

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    descdesc Goretexing to death Registered User regular


    Knowing, as I do, people who have been awaiting the collapse of civil order for most of their lives so that they could kill us, I'm hoping the Democrats get their shit together real soon.

    I (and probably most or all of this thread) have been reading explicit and creepily-detailed flights of fancy about killing leftists, liberal politicians, gay people, immigrants, etc. from right wing internet people since the 90s. What makes this unnerving is the extent to which it has always been verbalized in front of the backdrop of hate crimes going on year in and out. And now this?

    Combined with the subcultures of people who see themselves as a volunteer militia to defend the Mexican border or to guard army recruitment centers or the like, it is frightening to think that all the impatient waiting these people have been doing is going to be over. They've been explicitly telling each other that they're biding their time to purge Not Real Americans or traitors or outsiders or what the fuck ever category they think they're allowed to shoot at in "defense."

    The need for principled conservatives to be the loudest voices tamping down any crazy talk from the fringe couldn't be greater while this is still unfolding and being investigated. Fuck.

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited June 2017
    This seems par for the course in America. We're a hopelessly violent place.

    Also yet another mass shooter with a domestic violence history.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Is this about to become a weird 2016 rehash with people claiming he supported this candidate or that candidate?

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    NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    WaPo article has a statement from Duncan who is not saying the guy was in a jogging suit anymore. He is saying he thinks it is the shooter now.

    I am actually scared of what the outcome of this will be. I'm imagining Trump and co. could use this to justify some truly dark actions. I'm not sure if I should be more concerned I'm overreacting or that my instincts are right.

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    CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    This seems par for the course in America. We're a hopelessly violent place.

    Also yet another mass shooter with a domestic violence history.

    Could the *gasp* feminists be right about removing guns from men with histories of domestic violence?

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    Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    This seems par for the course in America. We're a hopelessly violent place.

    Also yet another mass shooter with a domestic violence history.

    It is also illegal in Illinois to own a gun with a domestic violence conviction in Illinois.

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    Edith UpwardsEdith Upwards Registered User regular
    edited June 2017
    Viskod wrote: »


    Knowing, as I do, people who have been awaiting the collapse of civil order for most of their lives so that they could kill us, I'm hoping the Democrats get their shit together real soon.

    Oh great.

    Because there's definitely not a group of ignorant violence prone individuals that now feel emboldened by President Trump that will see this as something they blame the Democrats for and feel the need to take "revenge."

    https://www.democracynow.org/2016/10/27/shane_bauer_infiltrates_armed_militia_hunting

    Edith Upwards on
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    CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    edited June 2017
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    WaPo article has a statement from Duncan who is not saying the guy was in a jogging suit anymore. He is saying he thinks it is the shooter now.

    I am actually scared of what the outcome of this will be. I'm imagining Trump and co. could use this to justify some truly dark actions. I'm not sure if I should be more concerned I'm overreacting or that my instincts are right.

    The guy was a middle-aged white guy. So, I sincerely doubt it. Where are they going to declare war on? The suspect has a British surname, so is probably of ultimately British ancestry, so the UK?

    CelestialBadger on
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    SicariiSicarii The Roose is Loose Registered User regular
    This is leftist terrorism. Just because there are examples from the right of violence doesn't negate that a leftwing loon shot and almost killed representatives of his political opposition.

    Don't "Tu quoque" this.

    Let's just pray this idiot didn't fire the opening shot in a political snipe hunt.

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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    According to what I'm reading, the guy was a nutjob. A hardcore Berniebro, anti-Hillary misogynistic piece of fucking looney tunes with a history of domestic abuse, arrests, and DWI.

    Gingrich is already spinning this as "leftist terrorism," but I bet he stops short of actually offering meaningful ideas to combat gun violence.
    Gingrich better spend time talking to Rand Paul and other 2nd amendment supporters instead, because what happened today is their main talking point.


    Edit - This is just a random user bringing up an old Rand Paul tweet. Trying to get a direct link to the tweet in question.

    Look back two pages. You will also find Steve King endorsing Napolitano's statement on that (at the time).

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    m!ttensm!ttens he/himRegistered User regular
    edited June 2017
    Washington Post
    A dispatch from Washington Post contributor Kurt Shillinger, who is in Belleville, Ill., and reporter Tom Jackman, who is in Washington:

    It appears that James Hodgkinson was recently taking target practice with a rifle in the lightly populated neighborhood where he lived, in the unincorporated area outside of Belleville. Police encountered Hodgkinson on March 24, records from the St. Clair County Sheriff show. The sheriff received a phone call reporting about 50 shots “in the pine trees” located at the end of the short street where Hodgkinson lived.

    A deputy responded shortly after 3:05 p.m. and found that Hodgkinson “did have in his possession a valid Illinois FOID [firearms owner identification] card,” and that the deputy advised Hodgkinson “to not discharge his weapon in the area.”

    EDIT:
    I'm really glad the deputy on scene just asked Hodgkinson to knock it off instead of confiscating a weapon owned by someone without a valid ID card, or following up in any way.
    Nothing to see here, reading comprehension is hard. As pointed out below, since he had possession of the FOID then the domestic violence charges were likely dropped.

    m!ttens on
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    AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    Tuesday was the anniversary of the Pulse shooting

    I'm just fucking done with this country

    a heaping pile of shit this place is

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    ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Western coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderator mod
    m!ttens wrote: »
    Washington Post
    A dispatch from Washington Post contributor Kurt Shillinger, who is in Belleville, Ill., and reporter Tom Jackman, who is in Washington:

    It appears that James Hodgkinson was recently taking target practice with a rifle in the lightly populated neighborhood where he lived, in the unincorporated area outside of Belleville. Police encountered Hodgkinson on March 24, records from the St. Clair County Sheriff show. The sheriff received a phone call reporting about 50 shots “in the pine trees” located at the end of the short street where Hodgkinson lived.

    A deputy responded shortly after 3:05 p.m. and found that Hodgkinson “did have in his possession a valid Illinois FOID [firearms owner identification] card,” and that the deputy advised Hodgkinson “to not discharge his weapon in the area.”

    I'm really glad the deputy on scene just asked Hodgkinson to knock it off instead of confiscating a weapon owned by someone without a valid ID card, or following up in any way.

    I'm pretty sure the article is saying that he did have a valid card?

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    Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    Gov. McAuliffe Virginia brought up gun control per WaPo article. Getting blasted for "today is not for politics" from Fox News contributor over it. Yeah seriously.

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    SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Can we cite sources for all this info we have on the dude? I saw someone saying he had liked Hillary 2016 on his facebook and now people saying he was a bernie or bust type of person and it's all conflicting and not helpful.

    He certainly didn't sound like a stable individual either way and should in no way be representative of anyone's supporters.

    The initial discussion of his Facebook page--which is down now?--mentioned Hillary 2016 on his page. I guess this was debunked? It's difficult for me to do a search anyway.

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    Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    Shivahn wrote: »
    m!ttens wrote: »
    Washington Post
    A dispatch from Washington Post contributor Kurt Shillinger, who is in Belleville, Ill., and reporter Tom Jackman, who is in Washington:

    It appears that James Hodgkinson was recently taking target practice with a rifle in the lightly populated neighborhood where he lived, in the unincorporated area outside of Belleville. Police encountered Hodgkinson on March 24, records from the St. Clair County Sheriff show. The sheriff received a phone call reporting about 50 shots “in the pine trees” located at the end of the short street where Hodgkinson lived.

    A deputy responded shortly after 3:05 p.m. and found that Hodgkinson “did have in his possession a valid Illinois FOID [firearms owner identification] card,” and that the deputy advised Hodgkinson “to not discharge his weapon in the area.”

    I'm really glad the deputy on scene just asked Hodgkinson to knock it off instead of confiscating a weapon owned by someone without a valid ID card, or following up in any way.

    I'm pretty sure the article is saying that he did have a valid card?

    Yeah he did according to a couple websites I visited. So must not have been convicted of DV?

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    BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    This seems par for the course in America. We're a hopelessly violent place.

    Also yet another mass shooter with a domestic violence history.

    It is also illegal in Illinois to own a gun with a domestic violence conviction in Illinois.

    The earlier reports are that the battery and vehicle damages charges were dropped, so he was probably within his rights.

    However terrible that is

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Sicarii wrote: »
    This is leftist terrorism. Just because there are examples from the right of violence doesn't negate that a leftwing loon shot and almost killed representatives of his political opposition.

    Don't "Tu quoque" this.

    Let's just pray this idiot didn't fire the opening shot in a political snipe hunt.

    This is factually accurate, but this is fucking frustrating given how the dozens of incidents of rightwing terrorism in this country are dismissed as "isolated incidents."

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    m!ttensm!ttens he/himRegistered User regular
    Shivahn wrote: »
    m!ttens wrote: »
    Washington Post
    A dispatch from Washington Post contributor Kurt Shillinger, who is in Belleville, Ill., and reporter Tom Jackman, who is in Washington:

    It appears that James Hodgkinson was recently taking target practice with a rifle in the lightly populated neighborhood where he lived, in the unincorporated area outside of Belleville. Police encountered Hodgkinson on March 24, records from the St. Clair County Sheriff show. The sheriff received a phone call reporting about 50 shots “in the pine trees” located at the end of the short street where Hodgkinson lived.

    A deputy responded shortly after 3:05 p.m. and found that Hodgkinson “did have in his possession a valid Illinois FOID [firearms owner identification] card,” and that the deputy advised Hodgkinson “to not discharge his weapon in the area.”

    I'm really glad the deputy on scene just asked Hodgkinson to knock it off instead of confiscating a weapon owned by someone without a valid ID card, or following up in any way.

    I'm pretty sure the article is saying that he did have a valid card?

    Oh wow, sorry. Brain must have inserted a "not" into that quote!

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    NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    WaPo article has a statement from Duncan who is not saying the guy was in a jogging suit anymore. He is saying he thinks it is the shooter now.

    I am actually scared of what the outcome of this will be. I'm imagining Trump and co. could use this to justify some truly dark actions. I'm not sure if I should be more concerned I'm overreacting or that my instincts are right.

    The guy was a middle-aged white guy. So, I sincerely doubt it. Where are they going to declare war on? The suspect has a British surname, so is probably of ultimately British ancestry, so the UK?

    Worst case would be using this as a justification to declare martial law in some unknown future situation. That's so unlikely as to be trivially implausable and I don't seriously think it would happen. I hesitate to even those words, but I don't want to be disingenuous with saying just "dark actions". Also I cannot ignore the words and meaning of some actual elected officials regardimg this incident.

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    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Can we cite sources for all this info we have on the dude? I saw someone saying he had liked Hillary 2016 on his facebook and now people saying he was a bernie or bust type of person and it's all conflicting and not helpful.

    He certainly didn't sound like a stable individual either way and should in no way be representative of anyone's supporters.

    Much of it is from his personal facebook that I don't really want to link to but can be found if you google. In late October he was saying people should write in Bernie or vote Green etc, DNC conspiracy theories etc

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    Edith UpwardsEdith Upwards Registered User regular
    We're going to see more infiltration of leftist groups by the police, and greater cooperation between militias and law enforcement.

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    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    edited June 2017
    Sicarii wrote: »
    This is leftist terrorism. Just because there are examples from the right of violence doesn't negate that a leftwing loon shot and almost killed representatives of his political opposition.

    Don't "Tu quoque" this.

    Let's just pray this idiot didn't fire the opening shot in a political snipe hunt.

    This is factually accurate, but this is fucking frustrating given how the dozens of incidents of rightwing terrorism in this country are dismissed as "isolated incidents."

    Yep this is left wing terrorism but that ignores that almost all terrorism is right wing, either Islamic or white supremacist/Dominionist

    edit
    Or I should say the popular narrative ignores

    PantsB on
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    There's a second mass shooting in San Francisco at a UPS facility so probably not politically motivated. But... America. Early sketchy reports are 5 shot, 2 dead there, shooter included.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Sicarii wrote: »
    This is leftist terrorism. Just because there are examples from the right of violence doesn't negate that a leftwing loon shot and almost killed representatives of his political opposition.

    Don't "Tu quoque" this.

    Let's just pray this idiot didn't fire the opening shot in a political snipe hunt.

    This is factually accurate, but this is fucking frustrating given how the dozens of incidents of rightwing terrorism in this country are dismissed as "isolated incidents."
    It essentially continues the "he said / she said" of politics. "Your side is into violence." "No YOUR side is into violence." Nothing changes. Up until now, the right-wing mostly pointed at the left on this issue when it came to protests, with the small fraction thereof doing some vandalism and claiming the whole of the protest was about that.

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    SicariiSicarii The Roose is Loose Registered User regular
    edited June 2017
    Sicarii wrote: »
    This is leftist terrorism. Just because there are examples from the right of violence doesn't negate that a leftwing loon shot and almost killed representatives of his political opposition.

    Don't "Tu quoque" this.

    Let's just pray this idiot didn't fire the opening shot in a political snipe hunt.

    This is factually accurate, but this is fucking frustrating given how the dozens of incidents of rightwing terrorism in this country are dismissed as "isolated incidents."

    The bifurcation of our political spectrum is being stretched to its breaking point. Violence is the natural result of extensive tribalism.

    Today is not the day to post tweets from rand paul about gun control. That only serves to normalize violence.

    We need to be better than this.

    Sicarii on
    gotsig.jpg
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    ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    Regardless of his ability to obtain a permit laws limiting gun ownership based on a criminal conviction are essentially meaningless in Illinois when their neighbor good ole Indiana has no background check requirement for gun sales.

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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Sicarii wrote: »
    Sicarii wrote: »
    This is leftist terrorism. Just because there are examples from the right of violence doesn't negate that a leftwing loon shot and almost killed representatives of his political opposition.

    Don't "Tu quoque" this.

    Let's just pray this idiot didn't fire the opening shot in a political snipe hunt.

    This is factually accurate, but this is fucking frustrating given how the dozens of incidents of rightwing terrorism in this country are dismissed as "isolated incidents."

    The bifurcation of our political spectrum is being stretched to its breaking point. Violence is the natural result of extensive tribalism.

    Today is not the day to post tweets from rand paul about gun control. That only serves to normalize violence.

    We need to be better than this.

    That was Rand Paul calling for the murder of government officials actually.

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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    ABC National Reporter;



    This is pretty much exactly what I expected when they said "worked on the campaign".

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    SicariiSicarii The Roose is Loose Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Sicarii wrote: »
    Sicarii wrote: »
    This is leftist terrorism. Just because there are examples from the right of violence doesn't negate that a leftwing loon shot and almost killed representatives of his political opposition.

    Don't "Tu quoque" this.

    Let's just pray this idiot didn't fire the opening shot in a political snipe hunt.

    This is factually accurate, but this is fucking frustrating given how the dozens of incidents of rightwing terrorism in this country are dismissed as "isolated incidents."

    The bifurcation of our political spectrum is being stretched to its breaking point. Violence is the natural result of extensive tribalism.

    Today is not the day to post tweets from rand paul about gun control. That only serves to normalize violence.

    We need to be better than this.

    That was Rand Paul calling for the murder of government officials actually.

    No it wasn't. Give me a break.

    gotsig.jpg
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    AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Is there any confirmation of the shooter's death anywhere else besides the President at this point?

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    This guy might have been a left wing terrorist. But the existence of such a man is vastly different, both qualitatively and quantitatively, from the many examples of right wing extremism out there. You can't point to this and say both sides are the same. The far left is championing gun control.

    We can acknowledge that this was an awful occurrence and continue trying to fix the circumstances that led to it. We can extend our sympathy to the victims and continue fighting them politically.

    Frankly, it would have been nice to come together and just be a unified America for once in the wake of this, but it seems like the right is already politicizing it while also insisting the left not politicize it. Which is sad. And I still do not wish physical harm upon any Republicans; quite the opposite, in fact. I'm not going to let them use this as an excuse to do terrible things, though.

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited June 2017
    Sicarii wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Sicarii wrote: »
    Sicarii wrote: »
    This is leftist terrorism. Just because there are examples from the right of violence doesn't negate that a leftwing loon shot and almost killed representatives of his political opposition.

    Don't "Tu quoque" this.

    Let's just pray this idiot didn't fire the opening shot in a political snipe hunt.

    This is factually accurate, but this is fucking frustrating given how the dozens of incidents of rightwing terrorism in this country are dismissed as "isolated incidents."

    The bifurcation of our political spectrum is being stretched to its breaking point. Violence is the natural result of extensive tribalism.

    Today is not the day to post tweets from rand paul about gun control. That only serves to normalize violence.

    We need to be better than this.

    That was Rand Paul calling for the murder of government officials actually.

    No it wasn't. Give me a break.

    Yes, it was. What exactly do you think it means when the right wing talks about "Second Amendment solutions"? Paul is literally saying that the purpose of the Second Amendment is for the populace to wield arms against a government they feel is tyrannical - the reason that the tweet is getting brought up is because people are wondering what he thinks now that he's ostensibly on the other side of the equation.

    AngelHedgie on
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