We were 1-1 on Ilios, with ilios well as the last map, me as mercy, and 99-99 with the enemy holding the point on overtime. I basically flew in there by the seat of my pants, rezzed a soldier who instantly died, tried surviving for as long as possible, and just as I died, our tracer zipped on the point and contested, it would've been over instantly at that point. We then held the point till I respawned, then I had my ult and we fucking won it!
It was probably less than half a second between them and us winning there.
I always try giving everything even if it looks bleak, because you'll lose anyways if you don't - so better try for the off chance RNGesus is on your side
Btw, did some testing on how SR works for supports. Made an alt account, lvled it up, and then did my placements. Got placed slightly above 3400. I've have a winrate about 52% and have gone as low as 3200 and high as 3600 on streaks.
Meanwhile, my main account is always around 2500 and i go as low as 2350 and as high as 2650, but never much above or below.
So basically, I'm not super sure how meaningful SR is for supports, given the massive difference between the two accounts and SR stability for each. My performance is actually BETTER on the higher SR account, since people actually pick tanks and peel.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Btw, did some testing on how SR works for supports. Made an alt account, lvled it up, and then did my placements. Got placed slightly above 3400. I've have a winrate about 52% and have gone as low as 3200 and high as 3600 on streaks.
Meanwhile, my main account is always around 2500 and i go as low as 2350 and as high as 2650, but never much above or below.
So basically, I'm not super sure how meaningful SR is for supports, given the massive difference between the two accounts and SR stability for each. My performance is actually BETTER on the higher SR account, since people actually pick tanks and peel.
Yeah, I'm entirely sure there's some super-fucky behind-the-scenes stuff that Blizzard doesn't tell us about and definitely should. The lower edge of platinum and below is almost entirely a treadmill where luck matters far more for getting out than actual ability, and it's entirely cryptic as to what the placement matches actually look at for placing you somewhere.
A thousand-point difference in SR from nothing more than a fresh account means Blizzard's system is worthless.
KasynI'm not saying I don't like our chances.She called me the master.Registered Userregular
That is absolutely not a product of you playing a support vs. any other role. It's individual performance relative to the characters, and then it starts you out at a hidden MMR based on what your QP MMR was when you finally hit 25 and did you first comp game, which could have been wildly different than your hidden MMR on your main account.
That is absolutely not a product of you playing a support vs. any other role. It's individual performance relative to the characters, and then it starts you out at a hidden MMR based on what your QP MMR was when you finally hit 25 and did you first comp game, which could have been wildly different than your hidden MMR on your main account.
I think the thing is that your stats generally suffer, or at least are super inconsistent when you're at a lower rank, which leads to a lot of inertia that makes it an uphill battle to break out of. Doable given enough time and genuine improvement over that time, but when you start completely fresh, you don't have all those 'bad' stats behind you. Moreover, you're matched up at the start against mostly genuine newbies who are still learning the basics of everything. Just map and general hero awareness gives you a big edge over them and makes you seem much stronger than even a better player who's still learning.
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KasynI'm not saying I don't like our chances.She called me the master.Registered Userregular
That is absolutely not a product of you playing a support vs. any other role. It's individual performance relative to the characters, and then it starts you out at a hidden MMR based on what your QP MMR was when you finally hit 25 and did you first comp game, which could have been wildly different than your hidden MMR on your main account.
I think the thing is that your stats generally suffer, or at least are super inconsistent when you're at a lower rank, which leads to a lot of inertia that makes it an uphill battle to break out of. Doable given enough time and genuine improvement over that time, but when you start completely fresh, you don't have all those 'bad' stats behind you. Moreover, you're matched up at the start against mostly genuine newbies who are still learning the basics of everything. Just map and general hero awareness gives you a big edge over them and makes you seem much stronger than even a better player who's still learning.
You're right about a fresh account being a sort of 'reset' on your hidden MMR, so unless you sandbagged the QP games you played to level up to 25, your hidden MMR when you stepped into comp for the first time would have placed you into higher SR games to reflect where your performance would put you, and then make adjustments from there as you win/lose and based upon your performance.
But it really doesn't take that many games to readjust. You can't just accumulate a lifetime of 'bad stats' and then be stuck in ELO hell forever despite being so amazing at the game. If you're truly in an SR where you don't belong, it will be reflected in your performance and the SR adjustments will insulate you from the RNG a bit, since you're gaining more when you win and losing less than you lose. Unless you play a very limited # of games, you'll eventually overcome the dumb coin flip of your shit teams being shittier than the enemy shit teams.
Kasyn on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I made tonight's theme in DM to play the characters I play the least / am the worst with. I'm getting some surprise results.
If anyone's looking for something to do today, the Overwatch Contenders finals start in a few hours. It's the two best teams in Europe first, followed by the two best teams in North America. Sadly, the winners won’t be playing each other, but those two games should be pretty good (I expect the European game to be the closer of the two).
That is absolutely not a product of you playing a support vs. any other role. It's individual performance relative to the characters, and then it starts you out at a hidden MMR based on what your QP MMR was when you finally hit 25 and did you first comp game, which could have been wildly different than your hidden MMR on your main account.
I think the thing is that your stats generally suffer, or at least are super inconsistent when you're at a lower rank, which leads to a lot of inertia that makes it an uphill battle to break out of. Doable given enough time and genuine improvement over that time, but when you start completely fresh, you don't have all those 'bad' stats behind you. Moreover, you're matched up at the start against mostly genuine newbies who are still learning the basics of everything. Just map and general hero awareness gives you a big edge over them and makes you seem much stronger than even a better player who's still learning.
You're right about a fresh account being a sort of 'reset' on your hidden MMR, so unless you sandbagged the QP games you played to level up to 25, your hidden MMR when you stepped into comp for the first time would have placed you into higher SR games to reflect where your performance would put you, and then make adjustments from there as you win/lose and based upon your performance.
But it really doesn't take that many games to readjust. You can't just accumulate a lifetime of 'bad stats' and then be stuck in ELO hell forever despite being so amazing at the game. If you're truly in an SR where you don't belong, it will be reflected in your performance and the SR adjustments will insulate you from the RNG a bit, since you're gaining more when you win and losing less than you lose. Unless you play a very limited # of games, you'll eventually overcome the dumb coin flip of your shit teams being shittier than the enemy shit teams.
The problem is that the games at the lower ranks, especially for tanks and supports, are extremely reliant on your teammates, so your stats can and will be super swingy between games unless you're WAY off from your true MMR. The more uncertainty that's added to your performance, the slower your rating is going to change. It'll still trend upward, but it'll take a lot of games. It's a casualty of playing basically any character whose performance relies heavily on cooperation and teamwork while the MMR system focuses on personal performance. They're not completely independent from each other, but a diamond tank without diamond healers and diamond DPS helping him out/protecting from flankers is highly unlikely to be putting up diamond stats, even against inferior players.
I hate that individual performance matters in this. Most ELO systems don't care about that. It's always been strange to me that they do. if you're a healer and your tanks and dps play so well you don't get to heal much... why should you get less sr for that win?
Folks should always play for the win not stats. And I hate that the system here encourages otherwise. I should never be thinking "man I wish my fellow dps wasn't killing so quickly so I could get more damage and Elims in"
I hate that individual performance matters in this. Most ELO systems don't care about that. It's always been strange to me that they do. if you're a healer and your tanks and dps play so well you don't get to heal much... why should you get less sr for that win?
Folks should always play for the win not stats. And I hate that the system here encourages otherwise. I should never be thinking "man I wish my fellow dps wasn't killing so quickly so I could get more damage and Elims in"
I kind of agree. Pretty much every time I am getting tons of kills as Pharah and want to pat myself on the back, I soon realize it's only because our other DPS (and the enemy DPS as well) happen to be terrible. Either that, or the enemy team just refuses to switch to DPS that can actually kill Pharah, but that's pretty rare given how popular her counters are in general. But on the other hand, I like the idea that when we lose due to one or more players on our team being awful, I might shave some of the penalty off myself by really trying my best in the face of defeat. So I dunno. A perfect SR system might not exist.
That is absolutely not a product of you playing a support vs. any other role. It's individual performance relative to the characters, and then it starts you out at a hidden MMR based on what your QP MMR was when you finally hit 25 and did you first comp game, which could have been wildly different than your hidden MMR on your main account.
I think the thing is that your stats generally suffer, or at least are super inconsistent when you're at a lower rank, which leads to a lot of inertia that makes it an uphill battle to break out of. Doable given enough time and genuine improvement over that time, but when you start completely fresh, you don't have all those 'bad' stats behind you. Moreover, you're matched up at the start against mostly genuine newbies who are still learning the basics of everything. Just map and general hero awareness gives you a big edge over them and makes you seem much stronger than even a better player who's still learning.
You're right about a fresh account being a sort of 'reset' on your hidden MMR, so unless you sandbagged the QP games you played to level up to 25, your hidden MMR when you stepped into comp for the first time would have placed you into higher SR games to reflect where your performance would put you, and then make adjustments from there as you win/lose and based upon your performance.
But it really doesn't take that many games to readjust. You can't just accumulate a lifetime of 'bad stats' and then be stuck in ELO hell forever despite being so amazing at the game. If you're truly in an SR where you don't belong, it will be reflected in your performance and the SR adjustments will insulate you from the RNG a bit, since you're gaining more when you win and losing less than you lose. Unless you play a very limited # of games, you'll eventually overcome the dumb coin flip of your shit teams being shittier than the enemy shit teams.
The problem is that the games at the lower ranks, especially for tanks and supports, are extremely reliant on your teammates, so your stats can and will be super swingy between games unless you're WAY off from your true MMR. The more uncertainty that's added to your performance, the slower your rating is going to change. It'll still trend upward, but it'll take a lot of games. It's a casualty of playing basically any character whose performance relies heavily on cooperation and teamwork while the MMR system focuses on personal performance. They're not completely independent from each other, but a diamond tank without diamond healers and diamond DPS helping him out/protecting from flankers is highly unlikely to be putting up diamond stats, even against inferior players.
That's pretty much it. My skill level doesn't suddenly change when I enter an MMR 3400 game vs a 2400 game. The fact that I can play at both SR levels and basically level off suggests that, as a support, my teammates are mattering far more to my SR outcome since they, more than me, are influencing the outcome of the game and my personal stats.
For example, I played a game around SR 2450 and was asked to Mercy since they wanted to run the epic 4 DPS, 1 tank, 1 support comp. I did so but no one peeled for me. Their genji and tracer hunted me the entire game and, without protection, I died something like 15 times. My healing and rez output were pathetic because I spent about the same amount of time dead as alive (I think i healed like 7k damage? It was bad.).
On my alt account, I played a game around 3400, again as Mercy. My lucio and Dva did a great job peeling for me, and I output over 20k healing throughout the map and died like three times. I put out over 25 rezzes.
My skill level in both games were equal but given the necessity of coordination for supports to perform, I look like a completely different player statistically. The entire "git gud" mentality for SR ignores this because DPS output is often more about individual skill while tank and support performance rely heavily on team coordination. It's virtually impossible to "git gud" and somehow outmaneuver two unchecked flankers as a healer with any consistency.
I'm not saying that my true SR is 3400, not 2400. I'm saying that, given my experience as a support main, my performance relies so heavily on my teammates' performance that the SR system reflects my surroundings more than my individual skill.
Btw, Envyus just pulled out el presidente on the deciding map of the Overwatch Contenders grand finals. Taimou on Bastion melted down a very surprised Winston and Envyus pushed just past point B on Route 66 to clinch the championship.
It was something straight out of solo queue with a bastion/junkrat combo. It was fucking hilarious and somehow a fitting way for things to end.
I'm not saying that my true SR is 3400, not 2400. I'm saying that, given my experience as a support main, my performance relies so heavily on my teammates' performance that the SR system reflects my surroundings more than my individual skill.
Which completely aligns with the fact that SR does a shit job of ranking people. There's a huge SR range where individual skill is almost entirely meaningless because individual ability is almost entirely negated by the ranking system not even attempting to account for whether people work together and make good picks. Getting out of that range is possible but unless the placement matches start you off in a good SR range already, it's just a totally random fuck-the-player grind against getting terrible teammates.
Btw, Envyus just pulled out el presidente on the deciding map of the Overwatch Contenders grand finals. Taimou on Bastion melted down a very surprised Winston and Envyus pushed just past point B on Route 66 to clinch the championship.
It was something straight out of solo queue with a bastion/junkrat combo. It was fucking hilarious and somehow a fitting way for things to end.
Orphanerivers of redthat run to seaRegistered Userregular
If i'm correct on how lootboxes work, people should hold off on obtaining their arcade lootboxes after the Monday reset until the Halloween event happens and changes lootboxes to the Halloween ones, right?
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KasynI'm not saying I don't like our chances.She called me the master.Registered Userregular
If i'm correct on how lootboxes work, people should hold off on obtaining their arcade lootboxes after the Monday reset until the Halloween event happens and changes lootboxes to the Halloween ones, right?
Yes, get any quickly obtainable lootboxes after the event starts.
But just to be clear as of right now you should get as many as you can since it resets before the event starts.
I already got my arcade loot boxes for this week. I'm referring to the ones that will be available after the reset on Monday night.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I forget, does the event start with the Monday afternoon reset, or do we actually have to wait for Tuesday? They operate the game globally in unison so sometimes when they say "Tuesday" they're talking about Australia while over here it means Monday still.
I hopped back in for a few games to see what's up after a while away. Had fun in mystery heroes so I did the dumb thing and hop into Comp solo.
I had just... the dumbest game on Hollywood. Team of 3 on my side autolock Widow, Hanzo, Genji almost instantly. Only guy on mic goes Reaper. I ask last person to heal since I picked Rein for this mess. They go Mercy but spam hello for the entire game. Doors open, I get picked instantly by... nearly the same comp on the other side. Two snipes and I go down, and then Mercy. The rest of the team rushes in to die one by one. After that we couldn't get a single concentrated push together save for once.
We lost without a single tick, even after I forced a push through by earthshattering and killing their Mercy and Dva. I die, get rezzed, die again and the fumble squad still can't dislodge the last 3 with 5 up. Mercy still spamming hello and thanks. I have silver dmg as Rein.
Next round, mostly they swap to more sensible picks save for Genji. I try to tank for them but once again they ignore the shield and engage them at random times/spaces. I give up and Bastion in the corner so we can stem the tide a bit, and we hold for surprisingly long. Mercy still spamming in chat, finally guy on mic loses it and starts cussing out Mercy. Mercy swaps to Pharah, and with no healer our defense crumples.
Shaking my head, remembering why I promised myself not to solo for this exact reason, enemy Genji gets play of the game off killing me twice and then the Mercy.
I forget, does the event start with the Monday afternoon reset, or do we actually have to wait for Tuesday? They operate the game globally in unison so sometimes when they say "Tuesday" they're talking about Australia while over here it means Monday still.
Generally their times are local for them, so PST. But they also aren't always super strict about event start and end times, so you can never really be sure.
I should just remove this game from my computer. I took a break from it to try and normalize my perspective on the game, and less than one (quick play) match upon returning, I'm already back to a point of wanting to kick myself for polluting peoples' games with my bad play and worse attitude. I need to quit, not because I have bad aim, but because the game reveals me to be a passive-aggressive shit who refuses to improve in any way.
edit:
...feh. Or maybe I'm just having a bad morning and don't need to get so dramatic about it.
Healed 38% of dmg taken and rezzed about 25 times during a 2400 SR match on Dorado and lost because our symmetra refused to swap off even though their best DPS was pharah (a smurf, actually) on attack on defense. I think we got 5 total TP uses (not times it was up, but actual teleports).
Next match, my team refuses to protect the healers the entire match and instead rush straight into a bastion over and over. We lose, obviously, and I can't do shit the entire game.
I swap to my other account, and I win one and lose one, both times hard fought. I get play of the game for a trans into zen headshots. I didn't super believe in ELO hell before, but I am increasingly changing my mind.
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KasynI'm not saying I don't like our chances.She called me the master.Registered Userregular
Sheer volume is going to be the thing that insulates you from the swings of randomness throughout the tiers, and if your contributions are there, you'll climb given enough games. (Though games at any skill rating rely heavily on luck and can have throwers. There is no rating where you escape the potential for totally useless teammates or toxicity.)
A four game session is not enough to draw any conclusions about the system.
Y'all are focusing on the wrong shit if your goal is to improve and climb.
Sheer volume is going to be the thing that insulates you from the swings of randomness throughout the tiers, and if your contributions are there, you'll climb given enough games. (Though games at any skill rating rely heavily on luck and can have throwers. There is no rating where you escape the potential for totally useless teammates or toxicity.)
A four game session is not enough to draw any conclusions about the system.
Y'all are focusing on the wrong shit if your goal is to improve and climb.
Because obviously my last post includes my only data points and evidence. /s
I hopped back in for a few games to see what's up after a while away. Had fun in mystery heroes so I did the dumb thing and hop into Comp solo.
I had just... the dumbest game on Hollywood. Team of 3 on my side autolock Widow, Hanzo, Genji almost instantly. Only guy on mic goes Reaper. I ask last person to heal since I picked Rein for this mess. They go Mercy but spam hello for the entire game. Doors open, I get picked instantly by... nearly the same comp on the other side. Two snipes and I go down, and then Mercy. The rest of the team rushes in to die one by one. After that we couldn't get a single concentrated push together save for once.
We lost without a single tick, even after I forced a push through by earthshattering and killing their Mercy and Dva. I die, get rezzed, die again and the fumble squad still can't dislodge the last 3 with 5 up. Mercy still spamming hello and thanks. I have silver dmg as Rein.
Next round, mostly they swap to more sensible picks save for Genji. I try to tank for them but once again they ignore the shield and engage them at random times/spaces. I give up and Bastion in the corner so we can stem the tide a bit, and we hold for surprisingly long. Mercy still spamming in chat, finally guy on mic loses it and starts cussing out Mercy. Mercy swaps to Pharah, and with no healer our defense crumples.
Shaking my head, remembering why I promised myself not to solo for this exact reason, enemy Genji gets play of the game off killing me twice and then the Mercy.
For that kind of mess Rein isn't going to help. Zayra is a decent backup (can't run away from the shield if it's on you)
If you know your team is going to pick that kind of comp might as well play into it
I hopped back in for a few games to see what's up after a while away. Had fun in mystery heroes so I did the dumb thing and hop into Comp solo.
I had just... the dumbest game on Hollywood. Team of 3 on my side autolock Widow, Hanzo, Genji almost instantly. Only guy on mic goes Reaper. I ask last person to heal since I picked Rein for this mess. They go Mercy but spam hello for the entire game. Doors open, I get picked instantly by... nearly the same comp on the other side. Two snipes and I go down, and then Mercy. The rest of the team rushes in to die one by one. After that we couldn't get a single concentrated push together save for once.
We lost without a single tick, even after I forced a push through by earthshattering and killing their Mercy and Dva. I die, get rezzed, die again and the fumble squad still can't dislodge the last 3 with 5 up. Mercy still spamming hello and thanks. I have silver dmg as Rein.
Next round, mostly they swap to more sensible picks save for Genji. I try to tank for them but once again they ignore the shield and engage them at random times/spaces. I give up and Bastion in the corner so we can stem the tide a bit, and we hold for surprisingly long. Mercy still spamming in chat, finally guy on mic loses it and starts cussing out Mercy. Mercy swaps to Pharah, and with no healer our defense crumples.
Shaking my head, remembering why I promised myself not to solo for this exact reason, enemy Genji gets play of the game off killing me twice and then the Mercy.
For that kind of mess Rein isn't going to help. Zayra is a decent backup (can't run away from the shield if it's on you)
If you know your team is going to pick that kind of comp might as well play into it
Maybe Winston? But honestly that may be beyond saving.
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KasynI'm not saying I don't like our chances.She called me the master.Registered Userregular
Sheer volume is going to be the thing that insulates you from the swings of randomness throughout the tiers, and if your contributions are there, you'll climb given enough games. (Though games at any skill rating rely heavily on luck and can have throwers. There is no rating where you escape the potential for totally useless teammates or toxicity.)
A four game session is not enough to draw any conclusions about the system.
Y'all are focusing on the wrong shit if your goal is to improve and climb.
Because obviously my last post includes my only data points and evidence. /s
My point is, don't focus too hard on the results of any single session. A process-oriented and not results-oriented approach is going to be the better way to improve at something 10/10 times.
As I see it, people who are trying in earnest to climb, and at a rating they feel they do not belong at, are in two possible situations. Either they aren't as good as they think they are, in which case they need to disregard the number and try to deliberately improve their game with analysis and practice. Or they *are* better than is reflected in their SR, in which case they need to disregard the number and just put in the work and let the system catch them up closer to where they belong, which it is literally designed to do.
Either way, it's just not productive to despair about the game and pretend it's all just a crapshoot and that ELO hell is totally out of your hands. The game blows sometimes and people are uniformly terrible, but you're doing yourself no favors letting it get to you this much.
Sheer volume is going to be the thing that insulates you from the swings of randomness throughout the tiers, and if your contributions are there, you'll climb given enough games. (Though games at any skill rating rely heavily on luck and can have throwers. There is no rating where you escape the potential for totally useless teammates or toxicity.)
A four game session is not enough to draw any conclusions about the system.
Y'all are focusing on the wrong shit if your goal is to improve and climb.
Because obviously my last post includes my only data points and evidence. /s
My point is, don't focus too hard on the results of any single session. A process-oriented and not results-oriented approach is going to be the better way to improve at something 10/10 times.
As I see it, people who are trying in earnest to climb, and at a rating they feel they do not belong at, are in two possible situations. Either they aren't as good as they think they are, in which case they need to disregard the number and try to deliberately improve their game with analysis and practice. Or they *are* better than is reflected in their SR, in which case they need to disregard the number and just put in the work and let the system catch them up closer to where they belong, which it is literally designed to do.
Either way, it's just not productive to despair about the game and pretend it's all just a crapshoot and that ELO hell is totally out of your hands. The game blows sometimes and people are uniformly terrible, but you're doing yourself no favors letting it get to you this much.
To be fair, I use this space to vent so I stay calm in game. If it's bothering people, then I'll stop. It does help me avoid tilt in game since I can let it out here and not carry it around.
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KasynI'm not saying I don't like our chances.She called me the master.Registered Userregular
Sheer volume is going to be the thing that insulates you from the swings of randomness throughout the tiers, and if your contributions are there, you'll climb given enough games. (Though games at any skill rating rely heavily on luck and can have throwers. There is no rating where you escape the potential for totally useless teammates or toxicity.)
A four game session is not enough to draw any conclusions about the system.
Y'all are focusing on the wrong shit if your goal is to improve and climb.
Because obviously my last post includes my only data points and evidence. /s
My point is, don't focus too hard on the results of any single session. A process-oriented and not results-oriented approach is going to be the better way to improve at something 10/10 times.
As I see it, people who are trying in earnest to climb, and at a rating they feel they do not belong at, are in two possible situations. Either they aren't as good as they think they are, in which case they need to disregard the number and try to deliberately improve their game with analysis and practice. Or they *are* better than is reflected in their SR, in which case they need to disregard the number and just put in the work and let the system catch them up closer to where they belong, which it is literally designed to do.
Either way, it's just not productive to despair about the game and pretend it's all just a crapshoot and that ELO hell is totally out of your hands. The game blows sometimes and people are uniformly terrible, but you're doing yourself no favors letting it get to you this much.
To be fair, I use this space to vent so I stay calm in game. If it's bothering people, then I'll stop. It does help me avoid tilt in game since I can let it out here and not carry it around.
Fair enough, then, whatever you gotta do. Like, don't get me wrong, this game and its players are some bullshit, often. But I bet you carry more of that with you back into the games than you think.
Sheer volume is going to be the thing that insulates you from the swings of randomness throughout the tiers, and if your contributions are there, you'll climb given enough games. (Though games at any skill rating rely heavily on luck and can have throwers. There is no rating where you escape the potential for totally useless teammates or toxicity.)
A four game session is not enough to draw any conclusions about the system.
Y'all are focusing on the wrong shit if your goal is to improve and climb.
Because obviously my last post includes my only data points and evidence. /s
My point is, don't focus too hard on the results of any single session. A process-oriented and not results-oriented approach is going to be the better way to improve at something 10/10 times.
As I see it, people who are trying in earnest to climb, and at a rating they feel they do not belong at, are in two possible situations. Either they aren't as good as they think they are, in which case they need to disregard the number and try to deliberately improve their game with analysis and practice. Or they *are* better than is reflected in their SR, in which case they need to disregard the number and just put in the work and let the system catch them up closer to where they belong, which it is literally designed to do.
Either way, it's just not productive to despair about the game and pretend it's all just a crapshoot and that ELO hell is totally out of your hands. The game blows sometimes and people are uniformly terrible, but you're doing yourself no favors letting it get to you this much.
To be fair, I use this space to vent so I stay calm in game. If it's bothering people, then I'll stop. It does help me avoid tilt in game since I can let it out here and not carry it around.
Fair enough, then, whatever you gotta do. Like, don't get me wrong, this game and its players are some bullshit, often. But I bet you carry more of that with you back into the games than you think.
It's only really frustrating at the lower ranks. I'm really enjoy playing on my higher SR account because I get less stupid bullshit, like Tracers who run right up to the enemy's spawn and die over and over again, then rages when he doesn't get healing. It simply doesn't really happen at the higher SR unless someone is deliberately throwing. But around gold/plat, there are mechanically fine players who display horrible game sense and, instead of listening to constructive criticism, make the same mistakes over and over again.
There really is a big difference and, as a support main, the higher SR regularly produces games worth playing. Plus, my stats are so much better, like hugely better, because I'm not stuck with idiot teammates all the time. The SR system would be fantastic if it weren't for human stupidity.
+1
KasynI'm not saying I don't like our chances.She called me the master.Registered Userregular
Sheer volume is going to be the thing that insulates you from the swings of randomness throughout the tiers, and if your contributions are there, you'll climb given enough games. (Though games at any skill rating rely heavily on luck and can have throwers. There is no rating where you escape the potential for totally useless teammates or toxicity.)
A four game session is not enough to draw any conclusions about the system.
Y'all are focusing on the wrong shit if your goal is to improve and climb.
Because obviously my last post includes my only data points and evidence. /s
My point is, don't focus too hard on the results of any single session. A process-oriented and not results-oriented approach is going to be the better way to improve at something 10/10 times.
As I see it, people who are trying in earnest to climb, and at a rating they feel they do not belong at, are in two possible situations. Either they aren't as good as they think they are, in which case they need to disregard the number and try to deliberately improve their game with analysis and practice. Or they *are* better than is reflected in their SR, in which case they need to disregard the number and just put in the work and let the system catch them up closer to where they belong, which it is literally designed to do.
Either way, it's just not productive to despair about the game and pretend it's all just a crapshoot and that ELO hell is totally out of your hands. The game blows sometimes and people are uniformly terrible, but you're doing yourself no favors letting it get to you this much.
To be fair, I use this space to vent so I stay calm in game. If it's bothering people, then I'll stop. It does help me avoid tilt in game since I can let it out here and not carry it around.
Fair enough, then, whatever you gotta do. Like, don't get me wrong, this game and its players are some bullshit, often. But I bet you carry more of that with you back into the games than you think.
It's only really frustrating at the lower ranks. I'm really enjoy playing on my higher SR account because I get less stupid bullshit, like Tracers who run right up to the enemy's spawn and die over and over again, then rages when he doesn't get healing. It simply doesn't really happen at the higher SR unless someone is deliberately throwing. But around gold/plat, there are mechanically fine players who display horrible game sense and, instead of listening to constructive criticism, make the same mistakes over and over again.
There really is a big difference and, as a support main, the higher SR regularly produces games worth playing. Plus, my stats are so much better, like hugely better, because I'm not stuck with idiot teammates all the time. The SR system would be fantastic if it weren't for human stupidity.
There's a point where the average DPS are a little more consistent, and you're a little more likely to get functional team comps, but I can very much assure you that there is not a single SR tier in the game, including games with a bunch of top 500 players on either side, that somehow does not contain throwers and just plain useless people who refuse to switch, contribute, or cooperate. You can definitely get stuck with useless, stubborn DPS and shit tanks anywhere along the curve. Hell, at higher ranks people can actually get a lot more stubborn about what's going on.
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We were 1-1 on Ilios, with ilios well as the last map, me as mercy, and 99-99 with the enemy holding the point on overtime. I basically flew in there by the seat of my pants, rezzed a soldier who instantly died, tried surviving for as long as possible, and just as I died, our tracer zipped on the point and contested, it would've been over instantly at that point. We then held the point till I respawned, then I had my ult and we fucking won it!
It was probably less than half a second between them and us winning there.
I always try giving everything even if it looks bleak, because you'll lose anyways if you don't - so better try for the off chance RNGesus is on your side
Meanwhile, my main account is always around 2500 and i go as low as 2350 and as high as 2650, but never much above or below.
So basically, I'm not super sure how meaningful SR is for supports, given the massive difference between the two accounts and SR stability for each. My performance is actually BETTER on the higher SR account, since people actually pick tanks and peel.
Yeah, I'm entirely sure there's some super-fucky behind-the-scenes stuff that Blizzard doesn't tell us about and definitely should. The lower edge of platinum and below is almost entirely a treadmill where luck matters far more for getting out than actual ability, and it's entirely cryptic as to what the placement matches actually look at for placing you somewhere.
A thousand-point difference in SR from nothing more than a fresh account means Blizzard's system is worthless.
PS - Local_H_Jay
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I think the thing is that your stats generally suffer, or at least are super inconsistent when you're at a lower rank, which leads to a lot of inertia that makes it an uphill battle to break out of. Doable given enough time and genuine improvement over that time, but when you start completely fresh, you don't have all those 'bad' stats behind you. Moreover, you're matched up at the start against mostly genuine newbies who are still learning the basics of everything. Just map and general hero awareness gives you a big edge over them and makes you seem much stronger than even a better player who's still learning.
You're right about a fresh account being a sort of 'reset' on your hidden MMR, so unless you sandbagged the QP games you played to level up to 25, your hidden MMR when you stepped into comp for the first time would have placed you into higher SR games to reflect where your performance would put you, and then make adjustments from there as you win/lose and based upon your performance.
But it really doesn't take that many games to readjust. You can't just accumulate a lifetime of 'bad stats' and then be stuck in ELO hell forever despite being so amazing at the game. If you're truly in an SR where you don't belong, it will be reflected in your performance and the SR adjustments will insulate you from the RNG a bit, since you're gaining more when you win and losing less than you lose. Unless you play a very limited # of games, you'll eventually overcome the dumb coin flip of your shit teams being shittier than the enemy shit teams.
If you read what I wrote in full, this is under the assumption that you are way better than the rating of the games that you're playing.
You can find it here in three hours.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
The problem is that the games at the lower ranks, especially for tanks and supports, are extremely reliant on your teammates, so your stats can and will be super swingy between games unless you're WAY off from your true MMR. The more uncertainty that's added to your performance, the slower your rating is going to change. It'll still trend upward, but it'll take a lot of games. It's a casualty of playing basically any character whose performance relies heavily on cooperation and teamwork while the MMR system focuses on personal performance. They're not completely independent from each other, but a diamond tank without diamond healers and diamond DPS helping him out/protecting from flankers is highly unlikely to be putting up diamond stats, even against inferior players.
Folks should always play for the win not stats. And I hate that the system here encourages otherwise. I should never be thinking "man I wish my fellow dps wasn't killing so quickly so I could get more damage and Elims in"
I kind of agree. Pretty much every time I am getting tons of kills as Pharah and want to pat myself on the back, I soon realize it's only because our other DPS (and the enemy DPS as well) happen to be terrible. Either that, or the enemy team just refuses to switch to DPS that can actually kill Pharah, but that's pretty rare given how popular her counters are in general. But on the other hand, I like the idea that when we lose due to one or more players on our team being awful, I might shave some of the penalty off myself by really trying my best in the face of defeat. So I dunno. A perfect SR system might not exist.
That's pretty much it. My skill level doesn't suddenly change when I enter an MMR 3400 game vs a 2400 game. The fact that I can play at both SR levels and basically level off suggests that, as a support, my teammates are mattering far more to my SR outcome since they, more than me, are influencing the outcome of the game and my personal stats.
For example, I played a game around SR 2450 and was asked to Mercy since they wanted to run the epic 4 DPS, 1 tank, 1 support comp. I did so but no one peeled for me. Their genji and tracer hunted me the entire game and, without protection, I died something like 15 times. My healing and rez output were pathetic because I spent about the same amount of time dead as alive (I think i healed like 7k damage? It was bad.).
On my alt account, I played a game around 3400, again as Mercy. My lucio and Dva did a great job peeling for me, and I output over 20k healing throughout the map and died like three times. I put out over 25 rezzes.
My skill level in both games were equal but given the necessity of coordination for supports to perform, I look like a completely different player statistically. The entire "git gud" mentality for SR ignores this because DPS output is often more about individual skill while tank and support performance rely heavily on team coordination. It's virtually impossible to "git gud" and somehow outmaneuver two unchecked flankers as a healer with any consistency.
I'm not saying that my true SR is 3400, not 2400. I'm saying that, given my experience as a support main, my performance relies so heavily on my teammates' performance that the SR system reflects my surroundings more than my individual skill.
It was something straight out of solo queue with a bastion/junkrat combo. It was fucking hilarious and somehow a fitting way for things to end.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
Which completely aligns with the fact that SR does a shit job of ranking people. There's a huge SR range where individual skill is almost entirely meaningless because individual ability is almost entirely negated by the ranking system not even attempting to account for whether people work together and make good picks. Getting out of that range is possible but unless the placement matches start you off in a good SR range already, it's just a totally random fuck-the-player grind against getting terrible teammates.
Glad to see this happens to the best, too
Yes, get any quickly obtainable lootboxes after the event starts.
I already got my arcade loot boxes for this week. I'm referring to the ones that will be available after the reset on Monday night.
I had just... the dumbest game on Hollywood. Team of 3 on my side autolock Widow, Hanzo, Genji almost instantly. Only guy on mic goes Reaper. I ask last person to heal since I picked Rein for this mess. They go Mercy but spam hello for the entire game. Doors open, I get picked instantly by... nearly the same comp on the other side. Two snipes and I go down, and then Mercy. The rest of the team rushes in to die one by one. After that we couldn't get a single concentrated push together save for once.
We lost without a single tick, even after I forced a push through by earthshattering and killing their Mercy and Dva. I die, get rezzed, die again and the fumble squad still can't dislodge the last 3 with 5 up. Mercy still spamming hello and thanks. I have silver dmg as Rein.
Next round, mostly they swap to more sensible picks save for Genji. I try to tank for them but once again they ignore the shield and engage them at random times/spaces. I give up and Bastion in the corner so we can stem the tide a bit, and we hold for surprisingly long. Mercy still spamming in chat, finally guy on mic loses it and starts cussing out Mercy. Mercy swaps to Pharah, and with no healer our defense crumples.
Shaking my head, remembering why I promised myself not to solo for this exact reason, enemy Genji gets play of the game off killing me twice and then the Mercy.
PS - Local_H_Jay
Sub me on Youtube
And Twitch
Generally their times are local for them, so PST. But they also aren't always super strict about event start and end times, so you can never really be sure.
I am not looking forward to the fights over McCree and 76 and harassing people playing Ana again
I do hope they learned something about the uprising event and let us play different characters sans the ones we face in the event
edit:
...feh. Or maybe I'm just having a bad morning and don't need to get so dramatic about it.
Next match, my team refuses to protect the healers the entire match and instead rush straight into a bastion over and over. We lose, obviously, and I can't do shit the entire game.
I swap to my other account, and I win one and lose one, both times hard fought. I get play of the game for a trans into zen headshots. I didn't super believe in ELO hell before, but I am increasingly changing my mind.
A four game session is not enough to draw any conclusions about the system.
Y'all are focusing on the wrong shit if your goal is to improve and climb.
Because obviously my last post includes my only data points and evidence. /s
For that kind of mess Rein isn't going to help. Zayra is a decent backup (can't run away from the shield if it's on you)
If you know your team is going to pick that kind of comp might as well play into it
Maybe Winston? But honestly that may be beyond saving.
My point is, don't focus too hard on the results of any single session. A process-oriented and not results-oriented approach is going to be the better way to improve at something 10/10 times.
As I see it, people who are trying in earnest to climb, and at a rating they feel they do not belong at, are in two possible situations. Either they aren't as good as they think they are, in which case they need to disregard the number and try to deliberately improve their game with analysis and practice. Or they *are* better than is reflected in their SR, in which case they need to disregard the number and just put in the work and let the system catch them up closer to where they belong, which it is literally designed to do.
Either way, it's just not productive to despair about the game and pretend it's all just a crapshoot and that ELO hell is totally out of your hands. The game blows sometimes and people are uniformly terrible, but you're doing yourself no favors letting it get to you this much.
To be fair, I use this space to vent so I stay calm in game. If it's bothering people, then I'll stop. It does help me avoid tilt in game since I can let it out here and not carry it around.
Fair enough, then, whatever you gotta do. Like, don't get me wrong, this game and its players are some bullshit, often. But I bet you carry more of that with you back into the games than you think.
It's only really frustrating at the lower ranks. I'm really enjoy playing on my higher SR account because I get less stupid bullshit, like Tracers who run right up to the enemy's spawn and die over and over again, then rages when he doesn't get healing. It simply doesn't really happen at the higher SR unless someone is deliberately throwing. But around gold/plat, there are mechanically fine players who display horrible game sense and, instead of listening to constructive criticism, make the same mistakes over and over again.
There really is a big difference and, as a support main, the higher SR regularly produces games worth playing. Plus, my stats are so much better, like hugely better, because I'm not stuck with idiot teammates all the time. The SR system would be fantastic if it weren't for human stupidity.
There's a point where the average DPS are a little more consistent, and you're a little more likely to get functional team comps, but I can very much assure you that there is not a single SR tier in the game, including games with a bunch of top 500 players on either side, that somehow does not contain throwers and just plain useless people who refuse to switch, contribute, or cooperate. You can definitely get stuck with useless, stubborn DPS and shit tanks anywhere along the curve. Hell, at higher ranks people can actually get a lot more stubborn about what's going on.
People are just shit, top to bottom.