My problem with nerfing Matrix, beyond the fact that it's D.Va's sole damage mitigation and should be used for more than just ults, is that 2 seconds of Matrix on a 10-second cooldown is officially a weaker defensive ability than a Genji's deflect. Wtf is a tank for if not damage mitigation?
That's ridiculous. That said I think mini rockets are all kinds of cool.
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
Do you think Dva will have special dialogue on the Junkertown stage if she's in her Junker skin?
Given the level of details they've put in to the game so far here and there, yeah.
There are very VERY few lines that are skin AND stage specific though. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Lucio's one for Volskaya with the hockey skins, and I don't think that was added for many, many months.
I'm like 60% sure Lucio says his hockey line even without the skin. I play a lot of Lucio and I never use that skin and I think I've heard the hockey line.
40% wins this time. There's two different lines. One is something like (without skin):
"Wish I had my stick and pads. I bet I could find a pickup game."
The other (with skin) is:
"Got my gear. Time to find a game."
The latter was added way after the fact, although I couldn't tell you when.
Ah, that makes sense.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Much respect. I suck so bad at her. I'm usually in awe of people who know how to just mess me up at mid-range with her. Like they have the flight patterns and fire rates down so well they can just 2 or 3 shot me before I know what's going on really.
My problem with nerfing Matrix, beyond the fact that it's D.Va's sole damage mitigation and should be used for more than just ults, is that 2 seconds of Matrix on a 10-second cooldown is officially a weaker defensive ability than a Genji's deflect.Wtf is a tank for if not damage mitigation?
That's ridiculous. That said I think mini rockets are all kinds of cool.
whatever Roadhog does, I guess.
Because let me tell you, if my team's only Tank pick is Roadhog, I'm not thinking "glad there's someone here to stop damage coming my way."
Well, on some level they mitigate damage by being a bigger target and having a higher hp (obviously), but in this game that really doesn't last that long without a shield or something like DM (or strong and sustained heals). Which is to say I agree with you.
I mean if they want tanks to tank sans damage nullifiers, they'll need to drastically increase hp pools, which would probably mean nerfing damage, which is already low. At least hog is getting those healing/damage reduction buffs.
Those D.Va. changes are interesting. curious how much the rockets increase her effective damage range.
The rockets do interest me. Currently, my own Dva play feels like I can't do much at all when our team is fighting at long range down a choke point. Fusion cannons do little more than tickle outside of melee range, and getting close when the enemy can see me is a suicide run, or an abandonment of the team's defense.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Much respect. I suck so bad at her. I'm usually in awe of people who know how to just mess me up at mid-range with her. Like they have the flight patterns and fire rates down so well they can just 2 or 3 shot me before I know what's going on really.
I changed my target reticle recently and it's helped a lot with aiming. Overall the trick is learning the rocket pace. My weakness is close-range encounters. But at long and medium range I can shoot with the best of them.
During the post-match stuff I credited the kill stream to Mercy who was spot on with healing.
Part of how they give Tanks a virtual "aggro" system in this game is by giving them high damage but within a very narrow range. Reinhardt's hammer, D. Va's shotguns, Winston's cannon (if you're hitting 3 targets, that's 120 total DPS), Roadhog's scrap gun, and so on. Shifting a tank from direct damage mitigation to a more damage-based aggro-accumulation role is still consistent with that vision of Tank design, and as you add more characters to the game, you start to risk the World Of Barriers situation, which I don't think most people would find entertaining.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Oh my...way to folks jump on DPS just to be not good at it.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
world of barriers is already here. I would be perfectly happy with everyone but Reinhardt getting a flat out 25% reduction in their barrier strength right now, right this instant. An effect of the eclipse, it could be attributed to.
My problem with nerfing Matrix, beyond the fact that it's D.Va's sole damage mitigation and should be used for more than just ults, is that 2 seconds of Matrix on a 10-second cooldown is officially a weaker defensive ability than a Genji's deflect. Wtf is a tank for if not damage mitigation?
That's ridiculous. That said I think mini rockets are all kinds of cool.
Well to be fair, the DM cooldown should become 5 seconds instead of 10 right? I doubt they're going to decrease the recharge rate to keep it at 10 seconds. That would be...well, completely terrible.
My problem with nerfing Matrix, beyond the fact that it's D.Va's sole damage mitigation and should be used for more than just ults, is that 2 seconds of Matrix on a 10-second cooldown is officially a weaker defensive ability than a Genji's deflect. Wtf is a tank for if not damage mitigation?
That's ridiculous. That said I think mini rockets are all kinds of cool.
Well to be fair, the DM cooldown should become 5 seconds instead of 10 right? I doubt they're going to decrease the recharge rate to keep it at 10 seconds. That would be...well, completely terrible.
They said it means a 50% less uptime, which is more or less accurate to leaving it at a 10 sec cooldown.
4 sec DM, 1 sec cooldown, 10 sec recharge (15 sec loop, 4 sec uptime)
2 sec DM, 1 sec cooldown, 10 sec recharge (13 sec loop, 2 sec uptime)
Which works out to a ~43% reduction or 57% as much time as it could be active before.
But the thing is that it can no longer be active the entire time through the times when you actually need it to be active, which also means that you can't really use it for anything BUT emergencies because the duration is so short, so using it at all for anything else drains it so ridiculously fast and recharges so slowly.
I guess I just don't get what problem they're trying to address here, or why the solution is to make the tank much less tanky, not to mention all but remove her core defensive ability.
Well, in that case...I think that stinks! Although I guess that does match with the numbers they actually mentioned. My version would just mean you can't hold it up as long at a stretch but general use time would be about the same. Sounds pretty lame! Hopefully the rockets are cool at least.
A while back I put together a vid of a weird Ilios game where I went in as Tracer, and just got my ass beat and intimidated by an enemy Reaper... so I switched to Mercy and smacked the hell out of him. ...it was weird.
Last night I had an incredible game on Ilios where I backfilled, and figured my team needed a Mercy. They did not need a Mercy, and it ended up being one of the best Tracer games of my life.
It's a helluva feeling to backfill a match, spend half of the first round as Mercy and then turn it around into four golds and the elims card. It's like...
It's my highest streak across all modes. Next under Pharah is D.Va at 28, then Tracer with 24, Roadhog with 22, and then a three-way tie for 18 between Mei, Reaper, and Dad.
The issue they're trying to deal with is that D.Va often isn't fun to play against because DM is so damn oppressive. At least with barriers, you're accomplishing something by shooting them.
BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
I guess I'm trying to figure out why Blizzard has this fetish of making their non-barrier tanks revolve around doing non-tank shit.
PSN: Waybackkidd
"...only mights and maybes."
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I've never felt like D.Va was unfair when I'm fighting her. Even as a Pharah getting my rockets munched. People need to stop complaining about damage mitigation in this game.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
The issue they're trying to deal with is that D.Va often isn't fun to play against because DM is so damn oppressive. At least with barriers, you're accomplishing something by shooting them.
If only there was a character that was really good at ignoring Dva's defense matrix and mobility to kill or cripple her mech but who also had major tradeoffs in hitbox size and poor mobility.
Oh, right, we had one of those already, they had to break him for... reasons?
Tuning characters is fine, but Blizzard seems pretty keen on killing the randomly nerfing the shit out of them and then taking months to turn them back into something worthwhile. Sounds crazy, but they could do the gradual tuning first instead of knocking good characters flat on their asses for ages.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
They aren't randomly nerfing folks been complaining about DM for months.
They'll probably have to tweak the numbers on DM a little more, but I think the changes sound great for the most part. I say this as someone who enjoys playing D.Va.
It's funny seeing the difference in opinion between the two Overwatch threads. Most people here are doom and gloom while people over in SE++ seem pretty open to the changes.
The issue they're trying to deal with is that D.Va often isn't fun to play against because DM is so damn oppressive. At least with barriers, you're accomplishing something by shooting them.
If only there was a character that was really good at ignoring Dva's defense matrix and mobility to kill or cripple her mech but who also had major tradeoffs in hitbox size and poor mobility.
Zarya? Mei? Reinhart?
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited August 2017
I do agree little things should be tried first. If you reduce matrix then give DvA a bit faster recharge on her thrusters to make her the mobile face punch tank/damage airbag for front line non squishies or let the thrust do more damage to people. While Winston is for more attacks characters, DVA is defend and other tanks. Just turning around and giving her a new secondary weapon seems to just be a distraction to other issues.
TexiKen on
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
They aren't randomly nerfing folks been complaining about DM for months.
It's not what they're targeting, it's the random scale of their nerfs.
Yeah, Roadhog needed tuning. So they tuned him so hard that he became a pointless big fat target that couldn't do anything reliably but get shot and now he needs to be re-re-re-fixed. Defense matrix needs adjusting, so they're looking at "tuning" it into being borderline useless in a way that will be at least the second major overhaul for Dva. Orisa was out for a matter of weeks before getting a big damage nerf, but now they upping her projectile speed to improve her effective damage back up because they overdid things by a fair bit.
They need to actually tune, not just up and gut characters. And what gets a big fat nerf versus what gets actual tuning strikes me as pretty random. In particular they really need to make up their minds about tanks, because they seem to swing wildly on opinion on what a given tank should be doing.
As somebody who tanks a fair bit, all the tank adjusting pisses me off because they keep crippling what I like to play.
Ninja Snarl P on
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited August 2017
How about making DM deplete when it blocks damage like a barrier? What if it worked like this: if you're DM'ing a McCree or Reaper ult, it's 2 seconds tops, if you're just using it to stop normal fire from 2-3 enemies, it's 4 seconds, if nothing's happening it takes a long time to wind down?
How about making DM deplete when it blocks damage like a barrier? What if it worked like this: if you're DM'ing a McCree or Reaper ult, it's 2 seconds tops, if you're just using it to stop normal fire from 2-3 enemies, it's 4 seconds, if nothing's happening it takes a long time to wind down?
For big projectile ults, Mei/Zarya/Hanzo close, I wouldn't have a problem with the DM eating one meaning it just goes into flat cooldown. For stuff like Reaper or Pharah though it would feel pretty weird I think. In general I'm leery of it losing what differentiates it from normal barriers though.
Dva was originally a dive tank, defense matrix was a one-time ability on a full cooldown. I don't know why people are acting like being an alternative shield tank is a core part of Dva's character, that play style only emerged as a result of the previous heavy rework. I think Blizzard simply decided that the game is better off without a ton of that type of mitigation, so they're pushing Dva back into a dive role again. I don't always agree with every balance change they make but I appreciate that they're willing to evolve their characters in dramatic ways to keep the game fresh.
On the one hand, winning fights with her and clearly contributing to a win are very nice. Keeping a team on its feat is super gratifying and crowd-pleasing.
And on the other hand, when a match is lost, it's easier to maintain perspective. If you lose as Mercy because your team was bad, it's very obvious. Fewer fights where I have room to blame myself for stuff I didn't do.
I just wish Blizz actually knew how to balance. They always seem to have this 'flavour of the month' approach instead of incremental progressive balance.
I suspect they do it on purpose. Maybe they even have numbers to show it increases player loyalty over time (eg because people try different classes, or because they become more loyal in a sort of Stockholm Syndrome way).
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That's ridiculous. That said I think mini rockets are all kinds of cool.
whatever Roadhog does, I guess.
Because let me tell you, if my team's only Tank pick is Roadhog, I'm not thinking "glad there's someone here to stop damage coming my way."
I mean if they want tanks to tank sans damage nullifiers, they'll need to drastically increase hp pools, which would probably mean nerfing damage, which is already low. At least hog is getting those healing/damage reduction buffs.
Those D.Va. changes are interesting. curious how much the rockets increase her effective damage range.
During the post-match stuff I credited the kill stream to Mercy who was spot on with healing.
Well to be fair, the DM cooldown should become 5 seconds instead of 10 right? I doubt they're going to decrease the recharge rate to keep it at 10 seconds. That would be...well, completely terrible.
They said it means a 50% less uptime, which is more or less accurate to leaving it at a 10 sec cooldown.
4 sec DM, 1 sec cooldown, 10 sec recharge (15 sec loop, 4 sec uptime)
2 sec DM, 1 sec cooldown, 10 sec recharge (13 sec loop, 2 sec uptime)
Which works out to a ~43% reduction or 57% as much time as it could be active before.
But the thing is that it can no longer be active the entire time through the times when you actually need it to be active, which also means that you can't really use it for anything BUT emergencies because the duration is so short, so using it at all for anything else drains it so ridiculously fast and recharges so slowly.
I guess I just don't get what problem they're trying to address here, or why the solution is to make the tank much less tanky, not to mention all but remove her core defensive ability.
Last night I had an incredible game on Ilios where I backfilled, and figured my team needed a Mercy. They did not need a Mercy, and it ended up being one of the best Tracer games of my life.
It's a helluva feeling to backfill a match, spend half of the first round as Mercy and then turn it around into four golds and the elims card. It's like...
Okay well it's not quite that sweet, but it remains delicious nonetheless!
Omg Henroid - 33?! I think I've broken 20 like twice.
fuck that oppressive matrix
Humblebraaaaag.
Edit - This was during QP by the way.
It's my highest streak across all modes. Next under Pharah is D.Va at 28, then Tracer with 24, Roadhog with 22, and then a three-way tie for 18 between Mei, Reaper, and Dad.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
"...only mights and maybes."
If only there was a character that was really good at ignoring Dva's defense matrix and mobility to kill or cripple her mech but who also had major tradeoffs in hitbox size and poor mobility.
Oh, right, we had one of those already, they had to break him for... reasons?
Tuning characters is fine, but Blizzard seems pretty keen on killing the randomly nerfing the shit out of them and then taking months to turn them back into something worthwhile. Sounds crazy, but they could do the gradual tuning first instead of knocking good characters flat on their asses for ages.
It's funny seeing the difference in opinion between the two Overwatch threads. Most people here are doom and gloom while people over in SE++ seem pretty open to the changes.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
Zarya? Mei? Reinhart?
It's not what they're targeting, it's the random scale of their nerfs.
Yeah, Roadhog needed tuning. So they tuned him so hard that he became a pointless big fat target that couldn't do anything reliably but get shot and now he needs to be re-re-re-fixed. Defense matrix needs adjusting, so they're looking at "tuning" it into being borderline useless in a way that will be at least the second major overhaul for Dva. Orisa was out for a matter of weeks before getting a big damage nerf, but now they upping her projectile speed to improve her effective damage back up because they overdid things by a fair bit.
They need to actually tune, not just up and gut characters. And what gets a big fat nerf versus what gets actual tuning strikes me as pretty random. In particular they really need to make up their minds about tanks, because they seem to swing wildly on opinion on what a given tank should be doing.
As somebody who tanks a fair bit, all the tank adjusting pisses me off because they keep crippling what I like to play.
For big projectile ults, Mei/Zarya/Hanzo close, I wouldn't have a problem with the DM eating one meaning it just goes into flat cooldown. For stuff like Reaper or Pharah though it would feel pretty weird I think. In general I'm leery of it losing what differentiates it from normal barriers though.
On the one hand, winning fights with her and clearly contributing to a win are very nice. Keeping a team on its feat is super gratifying and crowd-pleasing.
And on the other hand, when a match is lost, it's easier to maintain perspective. If you lose as Mercy because your team was bad, it's very obvious. Fewer fights where I have room to blame myself for stuff I didn't do.
People don't look behind them
Personally I think it is/was pretty telling that during my last bout of play, there was almost always a Dva in action.
Defense Matrix was dumb.
I suspect they do it on purpose. Maybe they even have numbers to show it increases player loyalty over time (eg because people try different classes, or because they become more loyal in a sort of Stockholm Syndrome way).
But I can't stand it.